Latest / Best of Business / Nicola Willis: Finance Minister discusses the state of Wellington, economy and supermarkets

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Nicola Willis: Finance Minister discusses the state of Wellington, economy and supermarkets · Best of Business

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It'd be
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: The world was ending, I'd like to be next to you.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: That's not really how i'd like to start. When Nikola
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Wallas's finance minister, welcome.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Well, I'd give my best attempt at saving you.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: A good guy. Gosh, where my world was ending, I
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: want to be next to the finance minister. I think
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: both the world was ending. I don't even think you
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: could fix that anyway.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Welcome, Great to be on the show.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Great to see you again. Great to have you on
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: the show. Last time we talked, we sat and had
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: a coffee and had a chat. You told me to
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: hold on. Survived to twenty five. But now six months
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: and twenty twenty, it's not quite where we want to be,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: is it.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: No. I mean, it's been a tough time, hasn't it.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: It's both We're at an economy that has been recovering
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: in terms of coming back from that period of high inflation,
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: really interest rates and the strangle that that put on
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: a lot of economic activity. And just as we were
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: getting back onto our foils, as it were, in the
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: first few months of the year, and you saw that
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: our growth rate was twice what Treasury had been forecasting
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: and what people thought was possible. Things were starting to
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: come along. And then come April there were some reasonably
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: significant announcements by the US President that sent ramifications throughout
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: the world. Around the world growth, our forecasts have been downgraded.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: There's been considerable uncertainty, and little Old New Zealand just
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: recovering has been really impacted by that. And you've seen
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: that that's affected business's confidence about what the future looks like,
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: therefore their investment decisions. It's affected the way that therefore
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: people are feeling in their families and communities. So I'm
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: very conscious of it. Good news is we are still
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: forecast to keep growing this year and for that growth
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: to accelerate as we look ahead. So that's despite everything
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: the world's throwing at us. But there's no doubt we
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: haven't escaped the aftershocks of global events.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: From an outsider looking in, you seem to be throwing
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: absolutely everything at the world. You know, your Prime Minister,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: of Foreign minister, anybody that wants to hop on a
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: plane's on a plane and promoting the hell out of
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: New Zealand is that part of the deal, is that
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: trying to actually just get our tourism back and get
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: us back feeling good about ourselves.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. The simple fact is we will not get richer
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: selling to ourselves. For New Zealand to be the wealthier
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: country we all want it to be, so we can
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: pay people more like those in Australia, so that we
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: can have more investment in public services. Need this economy
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: to have an export lead recovery. It is going to
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: be people selling their clever products their services around the
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: world that is going to make us wealth here. And
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: that's yes, it's our agricultural products, but it's also our
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: ability to bring tourists here, to bring international students here.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: It's our ability to make sure that when a new
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: software company starts in New Zealand, it can sell at
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: services not just in the traditional trading markets but across
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: a range of places. So we're out there forging free
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: trade agreements, encouraging people to come and invest in our businesses,
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: making sure that we're a country that will do well
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: in the world. And I think that's something we should
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: feel optimistic about. And a world that's unstable. New Zealand
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: has lots of trading relationships. We're seen as a good operator,
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: and that's good for businesses wanting to export.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: We have to stick to the facts too, though. In
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: the latest Centrics report this morning shows there's been a
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: fourteen percent jump on people struggling with paying their bills
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: compared to last year. You know, that doesn't tell me
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  Speaker 2: that we are on their improved I know that we're
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: all so optimistic, we're looking for that bright light, but
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  Speaker 2: when we find out that fourteen percent more people are
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: struggling to pay their bills, that's not a good feel well.
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  Speaker 3: Look, I saw those numbers, and it is a reality
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: of the fact that as an economy recovers, the last
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: thing that fixes itself is always unemployment. And we are
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: in this point. What economists predict is peak unemployment in
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: terms of our economic recovery. So even prior to the election,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Treasury was forecasting that at this point unemployment would be
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: just a bit higher than it actually is now and
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: then it comes down. And so when unemployment is higher,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: of course, that is when you see people unable to
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: pay their bills ending up in those credit numbers that
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: you're quoting today. So that is a factor the good
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: news is again the Reserve Bank, the Treasury, all the
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: economists are saying unemployment will come down from here. We
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: will see that the there are more jobs being created
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: two hundred and forty thousand more jobs forecast to be
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: created over the next four years, and that will have
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: an impact. We're also seeing that more people now are
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: fixing on to lower interest rates. That helps with all
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: of the debt stress, whether it's the mortgage stress, whether
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: it's the credit card stress, whether it's the overdraft stress.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: When they refix on a lower rate, that that really
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: is helpful. So I just don't deny those numbers as
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: you say, they're facts. And I meet enough New Zealanders
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: each week to know there are still a lot of
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: people doing it really tough, who've hung on, who've worked hard,
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: they've done all the rights.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Do you get the feeling, because I mean, I want
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: to throw another one little quick figure in there, but
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  Speaker 2: I mean twenty six percent rise in company liquidations, I
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: mean that doesn't suggest to me that we're heading in
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: the right direction. I mean, that's a quarter more liquidations
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: and we know that a lot of that's government have
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: made those decisions. Does that tell you when you walk
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: in the streets that it is feeling like it is
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: on the recovery.
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  Speaker 3: Look, I'm going to push back, it's not government that
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: has made those decisions. Those are companies that have liquidated
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: for There'll be a huge variety of reasons. Some of
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: them will have come through COVID but had big debt
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: that they're carrying and have been unable to do it
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: to pay it off. Others of them will be in
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: a situation where there just haven't been the customers through
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: the door. That's a real sign of an economy struggling
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: to get itself growing, and this has been our focus
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: as a government. We've said, actually, you can spend all
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: the money in the world, you can put band aids
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: on as many problems as you like, but if you
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: don't get the underlying growth engine of the economy working again,
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: then you won't see businesses surviving, let alone thriving. And
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: when businesses survive and thrive, could as when jobs have
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: created and comes lived.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Could you have done more to help those You know,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: you're the first to admit that we're going through hard times.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: You know you're being really honest about it, which I appreciate,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: But do you think that your government could actually do
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: more to assist those small time businesses that have had
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: You know, you've labeled it perfectly. There's thousands of companies
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: out there that struggled through COVID, struggled through the recession,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: now debtloaded to hell oh money everywhere in a struggling
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: like hell. Could you do more? Well?
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  Speaker 3: I think we've worked really hard to be on the
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: side of business, and there's certainly things we could have
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: done that would have made it harder for them. So
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: I look back on the approach that we've taken, which
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: was first of all, to say actually putting a bit
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: of cash into New Zealander's pocket and the form of
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: tax relief. It ain't going to solve all of the problems,
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: but I tell you what, without that cash, things would
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: have been worse. Making sure that we are getting rid
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: of some of the red tape and compliance that's been
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: in the way of business, that on the margin is
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: going to be helpful, and we've got more to come
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: on that. Things like the Investment boost policy and the
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: budget which says, look, if you buy an asset for
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: your business, will allow you to deduct twenty percent of
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  Speaker 3: the cost of that from your tax bill, that helps
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: with cash flow, that helps encourage them.
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  Speaker 2: Can you tell us how that's working. I mean, have
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: you had any indication of how that's working.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've had tremendous feedback. So a lot of people
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: have said that actually their business has benefited from it,
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  Speaker 3: because literally in that week after the budget, they had
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: customers come in and say, look, I'm going to buy
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: some diggers, I'm going to buy some utes, I'm going
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: to buy some new equipment because I now know that
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: I'm going to get this tax relief if I do. So.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: We've also had a number of businesses say to us, well,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: I'm bringing forward my expansion plans. So I think the
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: catering company who are going to build a bigger kitchen,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: they said, well, we're going to do it this year
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: instead of twenty twenty seven because we can now make
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: the cash flow work.
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  Speaker 2: And they've still got the confidence to do that.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, that's exactly the point, Nick, where you were
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: thinking about when we created the policy. Was one of
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  Speaker 3: the big effects of all of this global uncertainty is
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  Speaker 3: that it puts people off investing because they look out
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: and they go, what are the next few years going
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: to look? Like maybe I'll just retire to my little
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  Speaker 3: cave and put my head down and hope that things
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: will get better. And what we need for the economy
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: to recover as people investing, and so this policy is
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: encouraging them, giving them a bit of a nudge, and
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  Speaker 3: I think you'd see a lot less investment if we
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: hadn't introduced it.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, let's move into Wellington, because I mean, you're a Wellingtonian, proudly, proudly,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: let's chat about it. How does Wellington feel to you
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  Speaker 2: right now? I mean, you've got children, you've got a husband,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: you've got a life in Wellington. How does it feel
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: to you right now?
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  Speaker 3: It feels to me like a place that needs a
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: fresh start. I think we've been through a bit of
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: a horrible time as a city, and there is still
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: great fundamentals for Wellington. It's still a place where people
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: are smart, they're tenacious. We've got the bush, we've got
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: the sea. We've got incredible industries, whether it's the film industry,
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: our hospitality industry. We've got a tourrier university. We've got
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: lots of cool things. But man, man, have we mucked
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: up in a number of ways over the last few years.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: It's the classic you can have all of God given talent,
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: but if you don't convert it through wise decisions.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: How have we cocked it up?
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: Frankly, I think the council's had its eye completely off
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: the ball. The number of Wellingtonians have said to me, actually,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: we need some basics focused on. We need the pipes fixed,
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: We need to have a council that's focused on keeping
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: the rates low because actually that has an impact not
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: only on every Wellington household who have less money to
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: spend in our economy by the way, if they're paying
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: very high rates, but it has a real impact on
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: local businesses too, who pay proportionately some of the highest
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: rates in the country for their commercial premises. And it
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: seems to me that the council has not been focused
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: on that mission and at the same time has been
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: quite distracted by what I would say, you know, interesting
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: political debates, but frankly, political debates that haven't brought the
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: city forward have often driven the city into division.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: And you know, anything, is there anything that you are
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: looking at right now? You know, we're only four months
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: away from an election, so anything that you look at
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: it and say that would be really good for Wellington
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: if that person gets in it. And I don't want
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: you to suggest anybody, but is there anything that excites
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: you in the pipeline coming forward?
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Well, there's two things that I'll be looking for in candidates,
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: And as you say, I never endorse anyone, and I
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: can see good personal qualities and just about everyone who
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: runs for office, and good on them for doing so.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: But the first is, as I say, there is a
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: real challenge for Wellington that ratepays can't take much more.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: That's my observation. I met a lot of people on
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: fixed and lower incomes so are just saying I honestly
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: can't pay these ever increasing rates. So I'm looking for
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: leadership that takes that issue really seriously, and that means
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: actually being prepared to stop doing some things. We've had
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: to do that as a government. But if you don't
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: do that, actually you're punishing Wellingtonian's the second thing I'm
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: looking for is policy sees that are genuinely pro business
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: and that understand if Wellington's going to do well in future,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: this has to be a good place to set up enterprise,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: to hire people, to expand and grow, and so things
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: like are you going to dig up all of Lampton
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Key and Courtney Place right when people are trying to
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: get through an economic recovery. That stuff matters, and so
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: that's what I'm looking for across the policy platforms. Are
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: you genuinely going.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: To keep before or against gold Well?
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: I don't think that it's the right time to be
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: doing it. I understand the vision, but I tell you what,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: I also talk to those business people whose premises will
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: be affected. This is the last thing they need right now,
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: and frankly, as I say, a lot of those dollars
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: might be better on the pipes or reducing the right Bill.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: We've been lucky enough to have Nichola Willis, Finance minist
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: to join us in the studio for half an hour
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: this morning. It's a half way your report card, half
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: yearly report, what do we do?
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: Have?
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: A Christmas show and then a half yearly one. Here
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: we go, Rates, Bill, I want to talk about rates.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Another twelve percent rates locked in for Wellington? Is this
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: acceptable to you?
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: Well? I don't think Wellingtonians can keep up with it
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: continuing to rise at that rate. It's too much for people.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: They're already challenged with rates at this level. And if
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: they keep rising like this, I really do worry, which
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: is why the council needs to focus on the basics.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: And of course there's a double whammy for many Wellington
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: homeowners because the same time as they're facing a bigger
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: rates bill, many people have found that the value of
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: their property has also declined. So I know that that
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: weighs heavily on the minds of Wellingtonians And as I
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: said earlier, that's why I'm looking for counselors who are
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: pledging to be disciplined about the way they spend rate
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: per money.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Is it about time that the government stepped in and
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: put some sort of I don't know cap on rates
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: like I mean, is it getting to that stage where
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: you know your parents you know, my parents are those
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: are still alive, they wouldn't be able to live in
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: their family home.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that is absolutely The Government's view is that
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: we do have a role to play and so we
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: will shortly be introducing legislation to put some breaks on
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: how much local councils take on in their kind of
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: worldview of what their job is. So the first thing
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: is to get them focused on their core business. As
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Chris Luckson said last year, at the Local government conference,
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: which they all didn't like very much. Do the basics, well,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: focus on the basics, don't do all of this other stuff.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Focus on the basics. And so we are going to
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: actually make sure that the law constrains them in that regard.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: To how far away is that? How far away do
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: we have to keep wondering until the government says okay,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: enough enough.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: We'll be introducing that very soon. But then the second
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: piece is around rates, and we are exploring what are
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: the options here for making sure that councils when they're
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: doing rate increases, are making sure that it's actually for
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: the core infrastructure, the development that we want to see
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: that they're also making use of the other funding and
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: financing tools that are available to them. So we've done
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: quite a lot of work as a government on new
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: ways of making sure that you can use development levees,
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: you can use infrastructure funding and financing, you can do
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: different things as accouncil to fund your big projects. And
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: we want to see those tools being used, not just
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: going to the easy option, which is hiking the rates.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Right and commercial rates in Wellington. I mean, obviously you're
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: dealing with business people. They'll be telling you that you
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: know it's twenty percent darer for the same value in
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: christ Church. Sure, the same value in Auckland. We're paying
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: twenty percent more commercial rates in Wellington. Why and why
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: do we let that happen?
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah? And it matters right because on the margin, when
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: businesses are looking at where it where shall I operate
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: and does it stack up? That's just another cost line
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: which might put them off. And I've actually spoken with
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: quite a few people have said, well, that's why I
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: moved out to Puttudur, or that's why I moved out
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: to the Hut because of the rates. And so if
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: Wellington wants to have a vibrant business district, we do
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: need to worry about that. Now. I accept Wellington's got
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: lots of things to fund, but I think that's why
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: it irks people when we see the council distracted by
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: all sorts of things that they're spending your money on,
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: because we know that they should be focused on keeping
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: the rates under control and doing the basics well supermarkets.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Last week you wrote to the supermarkets about misleading pricing.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Came after two supermarkets. What did you actually say to
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: these supermarkets and our supermarkets is sort of an easy
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: target at the moment.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm really glad I did that because I'll tell
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: you what provoked me, which is that there were a
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: couple of big pack and saves in Auckland who pled
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: guilty to multiple charges of misleading pricing and misleading promotions.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: And the Commerce Commission haven't done many prosecutions in their time.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: It's pretty hard to do those prosecutions for misleading pricing
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: and misleading promotions. But they've decided that the problem has
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: been widespread enough, with sixty percent of New Zealand shoppers
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: complaining that they've had a misleading price situation at the supermarket,
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: that they actually need to do some prosecutions to make
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: sure that the supermarkets take these issues seriously and change
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: their ways. And the reason I'm glad that I brought
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: attention to this as I think if I hadn't done that,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: that misbehavior would have just flown under the radar. And actually,
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: we have a law in this country, the Fair Trading Act.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: Every retailer needs to comply with it. Supermarkets are some
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: of the most sophisticated businesses in the country. They need
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: good electronic systems, good staff training, really clearly advertised refund policies,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: and it should be the case that actually they have
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: done that already. But I've written to them and said
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: we'll spot out to me how you're doing it. I
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: can report to you I have had one of the
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: supermarket chains right back already, and I expect that replies
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: will be forthcoming because sunlight is a good disinfectant link.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: When we draw attention to these issues, we actually see change.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, I want to ask you about the fairies too,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: because we've had our own private discussion about what's gone
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: on with the fairies. Winston Peter's sort of opened the
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: door a little bit and said that we'd look at
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: private enterprise and we'd look at public private stuff, and
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: then he's closed the door as quickly as he opened it.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: What's your view on it? Do you reckon that we
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: could actually do a better system than we've got right
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: now with Kiwi Rail?
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Well, I think we've set this up in a really
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: smart way, which is rather than just saying Kiwi Rail, who,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: let's be honest, of pretty patchy history when it comes
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: to faery procurement. They were the ones right behind Irex.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Rather than saying key we Rail, you're in charge of this,
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: We've set up special structure, Fairy Holdings, which has some
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: really great people on its board, and we've said this
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: is the entity responsible and focused on two things. One
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: getting the port infrastructure delivered in a timely and affordable
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: manner that we need to receive these new fairies, and
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: two procuring the fairies internationally at the right price and
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: getting them here on time, so no other distractions like
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: kie We Rail has, just focus on that. The other
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: flexibility with that structure is that in the future that
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: gives you some options. So we presume that Kiwi Rail
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: will operate the fairies. That's the working assumption. You provide flexibility.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Is your mind open to doing something differently with that?
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Well, look, I'm just conscious that this isn't an issue
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: until twenty twenty nine. That's when the fairies arrive. So
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: I think it's always good to give yourself flexibility when
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: things are several years away and to do what's best
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: for the people who use the fairies and the New
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: Zealand text past.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Would you look at it like an Air New Zealand style.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've said we've been doing it this morning
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: on the show and I said, why can't we look
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: at any New Zealand style. I mean, it's working successfully,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: why couldn't you do something like that?
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Well, those are options that could be considered in future,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: because we've set up the structure from the beginning that
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: gives you that flexibility. Anything, of course, would have to
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: be proven against. As I said those two criteria. Would
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: that deliver really well for everyone who relies on the
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: fairies to get their freight or family across the cook straight?
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: And would that deliver good value for the New Zealand taxpayer?
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, now I really want to ask you this really quickly.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Working from home. I mean we've talked about their economy
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: and Wellington and we've talked about it. We as a
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: city are affected more by this than anyone else. Is
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: there going to be any changes? There's slight rumors that
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: you're going to come down and say government departments are
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: going to have to or work back at their office.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: I know that you've started talking about it. Is there
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: more in the pipeline with us?
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Well, look, when we came to government, we realized that
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: post COVID there'd been a real change in how much
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: working from home was happening. And some of that's been
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: good because there are good reasons for people to have flexibility.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: But we were quite surprised that there weren't really very
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: clear policies about what the expectations were in some public
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: agencies in terms of when people would work from home
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: and when they wouldn't. And I'm old fashioned apparently, but
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: I think actually there's quite a lot of value in
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: seeing your workmates, particularly when you manage them or are
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: being managed by them, And there's quite a lot of
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: value in the social interactions that happen between different workers
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: in the workplace, and we want to encourage that. So
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: we've reissued the working from Home Guidelines, and we've asked
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: every government agency to have very clear policies.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: And more coming staff. Are you getting to the stage
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: where you're going to be a little bit firm.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Well, what we've had is individual agencies reviewing their policies
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: one at a time and updating them so you'll continue
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: to see that. I of course have heard from those
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: businesses in Wellington who say, you know, we'd like people
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: coming into the city a bit more. Equally, I've had
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: local cafes in the suburbs saying we quite like it.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: The people are working from home so I accept that
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: there are two sides to the issue. But look, I
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: think we all like it when Lampton Key's busy, when
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: Courtney Place is busy, when the cafes have people lining
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: up to buy food. We all like that, and I
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: like it when it's buzzy and Wellington too.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Great to have you, and thank you for taking the time.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate and I know that our Wellington listeners
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: appreciate having you on the show. Whenever you can make
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: your self available, it's really good. Appreciate it. Keep up
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: the good work, keep.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Sporry to be on the show. Let's try and make
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: it less than six months between dates next time.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, great to see you, Thank you very much. Finance
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Minister Nichola willis there on Wellington Morning.
• 22:23
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• 22:25
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• 22:28
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