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It's Friday, I'm Not Obeying Anyone · Friday I'm in Bed

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Hello, welcome to Friday. I'm in bed.
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Podcasts for midlife women living their best life while in
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bed by 10. This week on Friday, I'm in bed
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with starting with International Women's Day, The Good, The Bad
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and the Ugly. Has it lost its meaning?
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And why does it sometimes feel like brands are using it to sell
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more products to women who are still earning less than men
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doing the same job? Then we're talking about
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comments from Timothy Shamalay as saying nobody cares about
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opera and ballet anymore. Yes, fewer people can afford to
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go, but that doesn't mean the world doesn't care.
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Should all art have a place? And why do we always end up
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pitting one form against another?
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And finally, the research showing that 1/3 of Gen.
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Z men think women should obey their partners.
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We're unpacking the stats and asking the uncomfortable
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question, where do we all go wrong?
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So grab a cuppa and let's get into it.
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Hi Jam, you're back from your travels.
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How are you? I mean, awake is all we can ask
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for today. So I didn't get back.
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I caught back at about 9:30 last night.
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It's been a long week, but Oh my God, it was fantastic.
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I'm in love with Morocco. It's absolutely amazing, amazing
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country. We do have been like camel
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riding and sandboarding and in the Sahara Desert.
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I went for a run in the Sahara Desert.
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Just going to say, we went up into the Atlas Mountains.
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There was waterfalls and it snowed in the mountains.
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There is snow in Africa. So yeah, I had an absolutely
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fantastic time. But I actually weirdly enjoyed
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haggling as well. I haggled for a pair of shoes
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and I was like, no, but it's kind of fun.
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It feels like it's a game and everyone knows that they're
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playing the game. Do you know what I mean?
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So it was like, I actually really enjoyed it and I thought
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I was going to hate it. So yeah, I've had a fantastic.
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I'm moving. It is amazing there.
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I love it. It's one of my favorite places
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in the whole world that I've been to this week.
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And yeah, I mean, we're going. I think we're going back in
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October. But it's amazing place.
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So very jealous. I am going to talk some more
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about some of the things that I saw and did later on because
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some of it's relevant to one of our topics today, so that's
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good. What have you been up to while I
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was away in sunny old England? Same.
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Same as ever really. My son had two gigs, so I went
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to two gigs. 1 was an International Women's Day, a gig
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which I might mention later as well.
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Yeah, I can't even think what I've done.
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He's busy with the gigs, he does a lot of gigs, that's good.
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He's getting booked a lot then. Yeah, yeah, he is.
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He's doing really, really well and he's getting lots of amazing
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feedback. Every time he plays, people come
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up to me or come up to him going, Oh my God, yeah, you're
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so good. And he, he.
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And this is like actual adults in bands, people, not just like
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16 year olds. Oh, how'd you get to be so cool?
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Yeah, there's a bit of that. It was quite funny.
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He's bleached his hair, which is a masterstroke because obviously
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you can't really see the drummer.
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But then you've got this drummer with, like, white hair and you
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can really, really see. But somebody came up to me and
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said it makes her laugh because it's like he bleached it to be
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more like his mum so that everyone would know he was my
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son, as if he was really proud of me and he wanted to be like
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known as my son and. Yeah, no, I like it.
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Yeah, I know. I liked it, but I was like,
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let's not tell him because he'll die.
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No. So anyway, we've got loads to
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talk about. We probably.
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Never. Well, you're going to have to.
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You're going to, Yeah. When I was away, there was a lot
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that I did not keep up with. I feel like strong Wi-Fi did not
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seem to be a thing. They had a lot of no.
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You were in the desert. Yeah.
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What to be weird The WI. Fi was the problem.
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My phone signal seemed quite good some places, but I had to
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be a bit cautious with my data. Anyway, I had better things to
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do with keeping up on the news, so we're going to chat about it,
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and I may well just be going up formulating opinions as we go.
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Perfect. Like me most weeks, then yeah.
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How can you tell? Let's get on with it, OK?
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I think we should start with International Women's Day, which
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was last Sunday on March the 8th.
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I've got quite a lot I want to say about it, but before I share
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my thoughts, the good, the bad and the ugly of International
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Women's Day, just a reminder. I thought we'd start with what
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it's about. So the purpose of it is to
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recognize social, economic, cultural and political
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achievement of women. And it's been going since 1911.
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And it's sort of original purpose was a call for equality,
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which it still is, obviously. And the UN has sponsored it
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since 1975. So it is a day to recognize the
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the equality inequality, should I say, and the achievements of
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amazing women in history and currently.
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But this was the first year for me where I felt over it.
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And I think jaded is probably a good description because the
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feeling of businesses hijacking it to sell more products, often
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to women feel credibly disingenuous.
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And I feel, I mean, it's the same with pride, to be fair.
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And Black History Month and things, I feel like it's become
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part of the marketing calendar and it's starting earlier and
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earlier. And by the time it gets here, I
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know I am like, you know, like I don't, I can't, I can't bear it.
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And I want to caveat that with obviously there's people, women
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in particular, doing amazing things and which is what we're
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going to talk about. So I'm not dissing it as a
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concept, I just feeling like if it's not addressed, it's losing
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its what's the word? It's losing its value.
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Yeah. And if it keeps doing that, you
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know, in five years time, it will be such an iron roll that
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it won't have any meaning anymore.
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So I kind of. Yeah.
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To talk about the good, the bad and the ugly of International
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Women's Day, I. Quite often think, I mean, so
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we're taking a very obviously like Auk centric view here
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because that's where we live and we see these we see these
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things. So in a way, with both Pride and
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International Women's Day, I guess we should.
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In a way it is good that it is being clapped onto as a, as a
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marketing thing because it means that the companies want to be
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associated with it. And therefore it means that
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arguing for women's equality and LGBTQ plus equality is not a
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thing they want to distance themselves from, they want to
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associate themselves with. So I guess there is that as a
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bit of a premising. Premising, yes, I agree.
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Except all those companies that only talk about it on one day of
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the year. That's the problem for me.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's fair enough.
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I mean, there are, there are, there are also some incredibly
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like hypocritical companies that kind of then just like leap into
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it and you go, well, you could release your statistics on equal
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pay perhaps in your company and we'll see how that goes.
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And so, yeah, there's, there's, there's, there is a lot of
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jumping on it as a bandwagon. But I guess at least the plus
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side is, is that they want to at least pretend that there may be,
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they're pretending that they like equality for women,
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eventually transitioned into actual equality for women.
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But that's that's kind of an aside.
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It's just like, yeah, I agree with you.
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I mean I am. Because I just say hypocrisy.
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I do, I do. You know what I do?
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Always try and see, like I always try and think that people
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must have good intentions somewhere because that's just in
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my brain and I can't help it. So yeah, no, maybe, maybe I am
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too, too nice. But that's my, that's my at
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least spin on it. But yeah, no, I actually get
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what you're saying. You know, I'm not averse to a
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discount, but sometimes there is a little bit of a like trying to
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sell me things. Yeah, especially when the pay
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gap is still very real. And it's very real even in some
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of the companies that are then offering discounts.
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Yeah. And I think it's what you offer
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discounts on and how you offer them.
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So I was having emails for like weeks before saying, you know,
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treat yourself lady to jewellery, have a discount.
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And it's like, I haven't like what would be have been better.
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Is this International Women's Day all sales on Sunday X amount
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will go to a female led charity. That to me cool.
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Actually, I might I might buy some jewelry actually, because
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that's really good. But it's the kind of discount,
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you know, thing and treat yourself.
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It's like I want I don't want a candle.
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I want equality. And a candle.
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Well, I'll have a candle too, please, but you know what I
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mean. I think there are some.
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Smaller companies that do that. I think I saw a real flash
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through my feed this morning. Like I said, I've only been back
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since half eight last night, so I'm like, I've no way up to date
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things, but manners, which are clothing company who I actually
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absolutely love, we're donating a portion of their profits to a
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women's domestic violence charity.
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I think it was um, so particularly smaller brands that
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are are out there. And again, that's the thing to
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look for those smaller women LED brands, I think Manners and
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Marie and things like that that I've seen over the last few
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days. Yeah, and Holly Tucker, for
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example, who was the person behind Not on not on High
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Street. And you know, she's like she was
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doing loads of it. She always does all year round.
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It's worth saying. And to be fair, Manners is
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really female or is female led, but also does the right thing
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all year round. So but there is obviously
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supporting female led businesses.
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But well, actually this will bring me on to one of my posts
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that I really liked. So from a from a marketing
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perspective, or well, it was a good, it was on Instagram.
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So it was a comedy sketch by a guy, a man called Rob Mayhew.
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And I am going to, I'll put all of these onto the grid across
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the week. So if you're watching or
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listening to this now or watching it on YouTube, you
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know, come over to Instagram and I'll put the actual content on.
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So he did a skit skit. Is that the right word?
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A comedy thing where he said he's the owner of a company and
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he wants to do an International Women's Day post on LinkedIn and
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he wants to look really good. So he asks 3 women, three women
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come from the office, come and help me, help me write this
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post. And it's really funny.
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And at the end he was basically they help him write the post.
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And at the end he says, fabulous Sophie, will you write that for
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me? So it's obviously highlighting
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the irony or hypocrisy of some male LED businesses and I really
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like that, IE you can raise awareness about inequality
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without being overly political and I think that's a quite
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clever way. Of really highlighting that, you
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know, don't get the women to do all the work, the unpaid labour.
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Exactly. Really funny, really.
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This is what I've seen an awful lot of things about
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International Women's Day being the one day of the year when
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companies seem to think that women will come and speak for
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them for free and like, like, you should be grateful to get in
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that out there. Hang on.
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That's not how this works, is it?
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No. And, and obviously for any men
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listening, it's in November. Well, we'll come on to to some
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of my experiences on the weekend with men around International
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Women's Day. We'll come on to that.
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Well, the I had a great International Women's Day this
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year because International Women's Day was while I was in
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Morocco and we were boom and dadis I think is how you say it.
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Maybe. What does that mean?
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So it was up in the mountains, OK, We had, we had a local guide
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that came with us on the whole tour and he was absolutely
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fantastic. And he remembered it was
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International Women's Day. And for International Women's
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Day, he took us around these places in in Boom and Dadis
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where women were in control. In the mountains, it can be
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slightly more traditional. So, you know, if you go to a
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city like Marrakech, maybe like a deer, I guess, and those kind
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of places, they're a bit more kind of modern maybe, but in
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like in the mountains and stuff, maybe a little bit more
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traditional. But there was a cafe.
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So we went on this hike, walk around up to the Casbah and
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stuff, and we went to this cafe that was up there that was run
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by the women from the village. So it was they, she was saying
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they had a meeting of like 140 women and in the end 40 women
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were involved. A lot of them, well, either
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divorced or widowed because some of the women that didn't take
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part that it was because their husbands wouldn't let them.
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So that is still a culture in some of the more traditional
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places is that they, they have to do with the husband said the
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women we spoke to, well, we were there were saying that her
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husband was a teacher. He was very modern.
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He's perfectly happy for her to do it.
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All the money that any of them make when they work in the cafe
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is, is their money, their money to do with as as they please.
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We were also told that apparently it's very traditional
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in the culture, that is the women do work, that is their
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money and the men still have to pay for all the household stuff
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and that kind of thing. So doesn't sound too bad to me
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that, but but it was absolutely amazing what they were doing
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there. They'd had like a chef come in
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and teach them to cook so they could start offering the bits of
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food to to visitors, to tourists particularly.
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They do, they serve the mint tea and things.
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And it was, it was absolutely fantastic.
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But again, this is a thing where like that was giving women the
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opportunity to learn skills and to work outside of the home, but
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also to do it in their own, in their own term, on their own
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terms. So they could still have their
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time at home to do that, do the work that they needed to do at
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home, because that was was still the way the household was run.
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So that was, that was absolutely fantastic.
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And they were amazing women. We saw them kind of baking bread
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and, and on, on the rocks and stuff, which was incredibly
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cool. And then we went down to a
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cooperative where they make carpets.
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So obviously Morocco is quite famous for carpets and the
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weaving. And they had a demonstration
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going for tourists. And then the place was just full
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of rugs. So the women weave the rugs in
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their own homes. They're all around the country,
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not necessarily just local. And then they sell the rugs
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through this cooperative and they ship all over the world.
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And but again, she called, I think she called it her
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queendom. So when we went inside, it was
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pretty much all women. And they were very definitely
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the bosses. There was one guy there who was
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behind her and she was going to just ignore the ugly man.
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Again, all the money that they make from this business is, is
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their money. So those kind of projects are
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kind of what international. So to go there on International
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Women's Day was like really special because that's what it's
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about. And you and it makes you realize
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that women all around the world are having very different
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experiences. Yeah.
15:02
For. For what this kind of thing
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means to them, it's very easy to say are equal or to argue about
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the equality even in this country, those little bits of
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equality, without remembering that elsewhere in the world
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women have even more struggles that they are that they are
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still fighting against. So yeah, to go to those
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cooperatives like that where the women are actually working for
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themselves and learning skills and it was, it was an absolutely
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amazing experience. The day after we went to one
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where they were doing argan oil as well, but that wasn't on
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International Women's Day. But they were also amazing
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women. Amazing women.
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I think that's, as you said, that's highlighting what it's
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about. It's recognizing social,
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economical, cultural and political achievements and moves
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to be more equal. And for in many countries, women
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being able to earn their own money, for example.
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But I do, I still worry that it's, well, here's an example.
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We went to a concert which was for International Women's Day
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and there were five acts, all female led, Great night.
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Hardly anyone came. It was billed as International
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Women's Day. Hardly anyone came.
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It was a very, very low attendance and I think it was
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low attendance because it was billed as International Women's
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Day. Most of the people going to
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music venues, for whatever reason, who knows that's another
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debate, are men. Most of the people that go to
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the music venues are middle-aged men.
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I have to say. 6 Music dads we call them.
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That's what music venues are full of yes there are women, but
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ultimately there are more men to women and they didn't come so
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they didn't come so I feel if it was billed just as 6th grade 5
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great acts you know knew up and coming, they probably would have
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done more. And that made me question like
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why? What is it?
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Do they think it's not for them? Do they because it's got the
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word International Women's Day? Is it because they don't they
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don't want to feel like they're going to be called out?
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I don't know. And you could argue, well,
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great, you know, don't come then.
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But there was nobody there. There was hardly anybody there.
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So it was a shame for these female, you know, bands to not
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have been they. Didn't get the audience.
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Yeah, and the ticket sales and the money that you get paid is
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dependent on the ticket sales. So it's kind of like, and there
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was this punk bat on this like grunge punk led by a woman
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they're called at Void. She French.
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She's so cool. And she did of speech about
17:29
women's rights and she talked about women's rights in
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Palestine and and the Sudan, and she talked about trans rights
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and she talked, you know, she he went in and it was very, very
17:38
powerful. And she talked about how the far
17:41
right in this country and in Europe, you know, are looking to
17:44
take away women's rights. And it's important we keep our
17:46
eyes at the open and we, you know, so it's this kind of great
17:49
speech. But they were still the guys
17:50
that were there going and men. What about men?
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And it was like, Oh my God. No one's trying to take your
17:57
rights away. And it's, I think then linked to
18:01
the fact that there was nobody there.
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I feel like, yeah, they're just a whole.
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I don't know if it's because it's over marketed.
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I mean, you could argue as, you know, who cares?
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As I said, who cares? They're not there.
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But it's like, I don't know. I worry that I think the right
18:15
people on the right who are desperate to get rid of DI and
18:19
the Equalities Act, if they see people what they perceive to be
18:23
box ticking it then the fuel. This is what I was hearing on
18:27
Saturday night. Oh, well, you know, you just
18:29
want to be woke. They just want to be woke and
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it's sort of giving them more fuel.
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And I feel like we need to just really celebrate it in the right
18:36
way, if that makes sense. I don't know if that makes any
18:39
sense whatsoever. I do know what you mean.
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It's like the stuff that hits the press on International
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Women's Day does tend to. It's like it needs to be taken
18:47
back almost as a day of protest, I guess.
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Yeah, a bit like Pride, because Pride.
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Pride was originally a protest. Exactly.
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And I think that feels. Like, rather than bringing it
18:57
back as a as a day of the celebration of pink and fluffy
19:01
femininity, maybe we, we need to take it back as a day that we
19:06
really do highlight things like those amazing cooperatives that
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I was just talking about in, in, in Morocco where they're making
19:13
organ oil, tea, rugs, whatever, that are really kind of pushing
19:17
the rights of women in that country and getting women
19:20
involved in things outside of the home and in this country.
19:23
Use it as an opportunity to, rather than just they talk
19:27
about, you know, womanhood, girlhood.
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I mean, I'm, I'm all for that because, I mean, I was also
19:33
travelling with 14 other amazing women while I was away.
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We were all women and it was absolutely fantastic.
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Everyone's got everyone's back. Like we can't even use the hash,
19:43
you know, girlhood, which sounds a bit dismissive, but I think it
19:47
means something very specific to me.
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And that is great. But yeah, maybe sometimes this
19:52
is the day. International Women's Day is the
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day that we actually want to not highlight those those positive
19:59
aspects of womanhood or girlhood, whatever you want to
20:01
call it. And maybe focus more on the
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maybe focus more on the process. And also maybe is that we need
20:09
to take it back as that day to really highlight the things
20:11
where we still don't have equality, whether it's in this
20:13
country or anywhere else. Absolutely.
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And I think charity giving is a is a big part of that and
20:19
raising awareness of charity the.
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Gig. I'm talking about they, they
20:23
were giving money to charity, but nobody came.
20:25
So it's very much money for charity.
20:28
And I think if we take out it, I was going to say, I call it like
20:31
a fluffiness. You know, I just want to say I
20:34
really want to make a post about how much I love Gemma.
20:37
She's lovely. Could do, which I could do.
20:39
But it's like, there are probably bigger things to
20:43
celebrate, but also to shout about and to raise awareness of.
20:48
And I think for me, that's the issue.
20:51
And it's not about selling more candles.
20:53
To ladies, yeah, I think ultimately, yeah, I agree with
20:57
you there. We can celebrate the great
20:59
things about being a woman any day of the year.
21:01
Maybe International Women's Day is the day to focus on the
21:03
things that still aren't so great.
21:12
So now we're going to talk about Timothy Chalamet putting his
21:15
foot in it. So this all happened while I was
21:17
away, so I wasn't like hugely up on the news, but I've seen like
21:20
a couple of articles and reels and stuff pop up.
21:22
You know, I was too busy just having a fabulous time wandering
21:25
around mountains. But I did catch Timothy Chalamet
21:29
pretty much being cancelled on the basis that he said he didn't
21:32
want to be involved in ballet or opera.
21:35
So what seems to have happened is he was recording an interview
21:39
with Matthew McConaughey and they were talking about, but he
21:45
was basically saying he didn't want going to the cinema to
21:48
become something that people didn't do anymore, that he made
21:51
movies and he wanted to be involved in the industry that
21:55
people went to the movies to see.
21:56
And he was concerned that streaming was going to make
21:59
cinema going essentially A minority activity.
22:02
And then he used ballet and opera as an example of a
22:06
minority activity that he did not want to be involved in.
22:09
So what he actually said was, you know, he didn't want to be
22:12
involved in something like ballet or opera that no one
22:14
really cared about anymore. And that was the phrasing, which
22:17
I believe he then picked up on straight away when, Oh no, I'm
22:20
going to be in trouble now. I've just shot myself with two
22:22
ballet and opera piped bullet. So I believe he actually picked.
22:25
Up on that in the in the interview immediately and kind
22:29
of went Oh no, they're going to be in trouble now yeah.
22:32
That was the point he was trying to make.
22:33
He was trying to say that that he didn't want going to the
22:37
cinema to become like ballet and opera people who like ballet and
22:40
opera then went what's wrong with ballet and opera?
22:43
We like ballet and opera. So yeah, I think it was, it's an
22:46
interesting one to talk about because I think there's some of
22:49
the things there's like the rise of streaming obviously, and
22:51
whether that is going to kill cinema.
22:53
Cinema has been through a lot in its history.
22:56
Obviously when cinemas first arrived, we didn't have TV's
22:59
like. So then the arrival of TV's in
23:02
the 90s did mean that cinema became a little bit more of
23:05
maybe a minority pursuit. And that's when they started
23:08
doing things like seats that vibrated and pumping smells into
23:12
the cinema and you know, kind of Ed films with 3D glasses and all
23:15
that kind of stuff. And then that all kind kind of
23:18
came back again about like 1520 years ago, didn't it, Where we
23:21
ever we had like 3D glasses and IMAX cinemas.
23:23
And you know that they're innovating.
23:25
And I have noticed recently a move towards cinemas have fewer
23:29
seats now, but when they do have seats they are recliners with
23:35
take a blanket, you know, get the popcorn, get everything in.
23:38
They're trying to, they always seem to be fighting to get
23:41
people off their sofas and like into the cinema by making the
23:45
cinema more like a sofa. So I can kind of see where he's
23:48
going with that. But there's obviously cinema has
23:50
been too many changes in its history.
23:53
So that's one angle on it. Is streaming going to eventually
23:55
kill the activity of going to the cinema?
23:57
The other angle on it is obviously the ballet and opera
24:00
angle, which I am quite interested in.
24:02
I've never been to the ballet. I have been to the opera.
24:05
I went to what's the one, the big famous one, Blindborn.
24:10
That's it. That went straight out of my
24:12
head then. So I went to Glindborn and I was
24:14
invited as a press trip. They were doing some of the
24:17
operas with a kind of 1940s style.
24:19
So when I was a vintage Blogger I was invited as a press trip to
24:22
go and talk about it. Absolutely loved it.
24:24
Fantastic experience. I'd never seen up before.
24:26
Absolutely loved. The performance on stage was
24:29
amazing and they had subtitles. It was in Italian, they had
24:32
subtitles that ran along the top so you could also follow the
24:34
story, which was it's amazing. Rather than just enjoying the
24:37
music and to be honest, also really enjoyed the whole thing
24:40
of Glenbourne where you then go outside and have like the
24:42
fanciest picnic you've ever seen in your life.
24:45
Do it. Candelabras, champagne,
24:48
strawberries, absolutely fantastic.
24:50
The whole thing was an amazing experience.
24:52
Since then I've also been to see it.
24:55
You can see it live streamed. Some of these places then live
24:57
stream at local cinemas. So ties back into the cinema
25:00
thing. You can actually go and see
25:02
opera at your local at your local cinema, but it's live
25:05
streamed from the stage. And I also saw Glenn born on
25:08
tour in Norwich somewhere where they actually had the, the
25:11
actual opera, live opera. So it is good, it is very
25:15
enjoyable. But I it has a reputation along
25:18
with ballet for very much being for rich people.
25:21
I don't know necessarily whether that's deserved.
25:24
There are cheaptickets you can get for these things, but it has
25:28
a reputation of being for rich people and then that kind of
25:30
makes it a minority pursuit. So I'm not sure whether it's a
25:33
kind of self fulfilling prophecy in a way is that people just
25:35
think it it isn't for them. I think it's OK to be a minority
25:39
art though as well. Not everybody has to like
25:43
ballet, but there are people that love ballet and I think,
25:48
you know, I don't know. I mean, I haven't tried to get
25:50
tickets for the ballet, but I have tried to get tickets for
25:53
the theater in London and they're sold out.
25:57
So people are buying now. A lot of them, I think, are
25:59
tourists as well. But people do come here and they
26:03
do come here to go to the Royal Opera House and to go and see
26:06
ballet. And I did see somebody respond
26:08
to Timothy Shamalay. Shamalay, I can't speak, saying,
26:14
well, people dress up to come and watch us.
26:16
They don't like, you know, like they make night, you know, you
26:19
said about a nice picnic or you get, you know, you put your glad
26:21
rags on and you go because it's an event.
26:24
So it's diff and I think he probably realized that once he
26:28
said it. What did spring to my mind when
26:31
you were speaking was as somebody that's never watched
26:33
opera or ballet, did you watch the Brit Awards or were you
26:36
away? I was threatened anyway Rosalia,
26:38
who I had never heard of because like, I'm Gen.
26:41
X1 actually I am quite down with kids to be fair when it comes to
26:44
music, but I haven't heard. Rosalia no, you're not, because
26:46
you just said down with the kids.
26:47
That's it. My kids performed opera, which
26:52
turned into a rave, and Bjork came out.
26:55
I feel like I'm going to put this on Instagram too.
26:57
It was the most amazing thing and it turned into an opera
27:01
rave. So, you know, I think there are
27:04
people out there trying to bring things to the masses.
27:08
Yeah, yeah. Which is really exciting.
27:11
I think. Let's talk about the streaming
27:12
things. I think what happened was COVID,
27:15
obviously the whole of the film industry, cinema industry kind
27:18
of collapsed temporarily because we couldn't go to the cinema.
27:22
And I know lots of big films were like, do we hold back?
27:25
Do we launch in a year's time? But we need to move on, We need
27:28
the money back. So they launched your new films
27:32
on. Straight.
27:34
Yeah, straight to streaming. And you know what?
27:35
That was great because as bad as this sounds, we could all, my
27:40
whole family, we have movie night on a Sunday night.
27:42
We all watched a new movie and yet it costs £15.
27:46
But it costs cinema. Yeah, it's 10 lbs each to go to
27:51
our cinema. So we all sat here for 15 lbs
27:54
and we watched new films. Obviously I don't want cinemas
27:58
to die. And when COVID was over, myself
28:01
and my son were going to the cinema.
28:02
Every week he goes loads the cinema.
28:04
Actually, we've got a new cinema near us.
28:06
It's like about it used to be 5 lbs.
28:08
I think it's creeping up because the seat, as you said, they
28:11
don't have normal seats anymore. You can only have like normal
28:14
seat, there's like 5 available and then there's like posh seat
28:17
and there's super posh seat and there's super, super posh seat.
28:19
So you have to end up spending more.
28:21
But we were going to see to see films.
28:23
So we did go back. But I've one of the things we do
28:26
him and I is we will try and watch all the Oscar films before
28:29
the Oscar ceremony. We've got a view on it.
28:32
And I wanted to go and watch Hamnet, but it's only on on a
28:36
Sunday night in my cinema because it's like on its way
28:38
out. It's only on a Sunday night and
28:40
on a Tuesday morning or something.
28:41
And it's like, yeah, I don't want to go on a Sunday night
28:44
because that's movie night for my, my whole family don't want
28:46
to go. But it's actually on Amazon
28:48
Prime. So I'm like.
28:49
So you'll get it streaming, you can watch it whenever you like,
28:51
yeah. I can stream it when I want to
28:53
stream it. And so it's like, it's a tricky
28:54
1, isn't it? Because you want cinemas to stay
28:56
alive, Absolutely. But the cost of it and you have
29:00
to pay to park quite often as well.
29:02
I think they're quite relaxed these days about bringing snacks
29:05
in. You remember?
29:06
You hope so. The last time I went, they
29:08
nearly bankrupt me buying popcorn.
29:10
Oh well, a cinema, you're allowed.
29:12
You're allowed. It's in the town centre.
29:14
So it's kind of like go in with your shopping so they don't go
29:16
through your shopping and obviously they want you to buy
29:19
there. But I can't afford to buy
29:20
popcorn from because it's like. You need a mortgage. £20, you
29:26
know, later, we've all got some popcorn.
29:28
It's like, that's crazy. So I think it's really important
29:31
that we go to the cinema, but I also think Modern World is
29:36
probably a mix of both. Surely.
29:38
So this is where I think that actually.
29:40
I mean, his comment was designed was to be that like he didn't
29:43
want cinema going to become a niche activity.
29:46
Like I like the ballet and opera, but I actually think that
29:50
the cinemas could learn a lot from the ballet and opera
29:53
because ballet and opera isn't dead.
29:54
It's there and it's thriving and it's an event and people people
29:58
dress up and they go and you've only got to look at something
30:01
like Glimbourne where people having their epic picnics and
30:03
it's part of a whole experience. So I think potentially cinema
30:07
going and cinemas could learn a lot from the fact that, you
30:12
know, opera, which started offers, you know, the mass
30:14
entertainment is still a thing that is happening and people
30:19
have it on their bucket lists to go to opera or the ballet, you
30:21
know, to go and see it in the big, a big famous Opera House
30:25
or, and if cinema going could take that from that and rather
30:28
just being like, hi, give us £15, we're going to squish you
30:31
into the tiniest little seat in the world.
30:33
You can all sit there with loads of other people.
30:35
It's really difficult to get up and go to the loo.
30:37
You're going to be really uncomfortable.
30:38
And then you can watch a film that you could very easily watch
30:41
at home with your surround sound on your massive telly and then
30:44
pause it when you need to go for a week.
30:46
Like, that's not an experience, is it?
30:48
That's not, we're not selling that really as a thing that
30:51
people want to do. So I do think that the cinemas
30:55
could take a leaf out of ballet and opera.
30:57
What's special about going to the cinema that you can't get
31:00
when you're at home? Bearing in mind improvements in
31:03
things like surround sound, massive, massive TV's, that kind
31:07
of thing, What is it that the cinema is offering to people
31:11
that they can't get a home? If they want it to survive,
31:13
there's going to have to be something else that that they
31:16
can add, whether that's some films, it might be worth they,
31:19
you know, there's an educational aspect to them.
31:21
I've been to film screenings before where they get members of
31:24
the cast or the director or even just like a local person who
31:28
knows about these things to stand up and talk about the film
31:32
and talk about what people are going to see and what you're
31:34
going to learn from this or creating a whole experience
31:37
around it, I think. It's you mentioned about things
31:41
streaming from into cinema, so ballet.
31:43
I know I've been to see National Theatre and I went to see David
31:47
Tennant doing Macbeth and the cinema was chockablock.
31:51
It was sold and it was one of their biggest and it was in the
31:54
afternoon to be fair. As in they hadn't, I don't think
31:57
they'd taken a prime slot, but it was full in the afternoon.
32:01
So I think having, I think cinemas are beginning to do this
32:04
more, but having a screen maybe for streaming ballet or opera or
32:11
the theater or I know one of my favorite bands, Placebo, they
32:15
created a video of them and they're writing their album and
32:19
touring and stuff. And that went to national
32:22
theaters and again, booked. So I think there's like other
32:26
things to bring you in rather than just the latest
32:29
blockbuster. And there's a lot of that.
32:31
There are a lot of films out as well.
32:33
I think there's a lot of choice and realizing that people can't
32:37
go and see them all, like can't afford to go and see all the
32:41
films because of the price. So there is something about
32:44
price. I feel like they're trying to
32:46
recoup their money back that they've lost, as you said, by
32:50
having fewer seats but big but more expensive seats.
32:54
And that's, you know, our local cinema.
32:57
As I said, it used to be 5 lbs and I say used to be, I'm
32:59
talking like 2 years ago. So I'm not talking about forever
33:03
ago. And I went to see what did I go
33:06
and say the other day I went to see something on my own,
33:08
weathering heights, weathering height, weathering heights.
33:12
And the 5 LB seats gone that the lowest is now 11 lbs.
33:15
Now OK, I can afford £11.00 for myself, but that when it was 5
33:20
lbs me and my son were going every week.
33:22
We went to see everything and now it's.
33:24
It's like, oh, it's a bit more with, with, you know, as I said
33:26
with travel, with parking just makes it a bit more considered,
33:29
especially when you've got a family or you know, more of you
33:32
than just you see, when you say you don't want cinema to die and
33:37
then you're looking at the £5 tickets.
33:39
So what is it that you feel that you get out of going to the
33:42
cinema with a 5 LB cheap seat that you wouldn't get if you
33:45
could also sit and watch that at home?
33:47
I'd go to the cinema for the £5 because it's looks better,
33:51
sounds better and I get to see it quicker, particularly if
33:53
you're quick. If the if the quickness wasn't
33:56
an issue, it would be the look and sound of it, yeah.
34:00
And I want to see things when they come out.
34:01
I think there is that and 15 lbs.
34:04
It's still got a lot to stream. My husband we, I said I wanted
34:06
to stream something other day. It's like 15 lbs.
34:08
And I was like, well, it costs a lot more for all of us to go to
34:10
the cinema, you know, And he's like, well, when I used to go to
34:14
blockbusters, it was a pound and whatever.
34:16
Oh my goodness me, I don't know. He didn't say that.
34:19
That's, that's slightly interesting.
34:21
My husband, but he was a bit like, well, I don't want to
34:22
watch it. I don't want to watch it.
34:24
Our daughter picks up her phone 10 minutes in and and she isn't,
34:28
it's me and my son. So we would actually like prefer
34:31
to go to the cinema. And I think, but is the answer
34:34
making it cheaper? I don't know.
34:36
I think like, I mean there's like 2.
34:37
Directions 1 of them is to make it cheaper and focus on the fact
34:41
that of the, you know, the look and the the audio and and the
34:45
video being better in the cinema, you can focus on that.
34:48
Will people care about that? Especially if they're people,
34:51
you know, with a really big TV and surround sound, you know, or
34:56
is the answer. So you could make it cheap, pack
34:59
people in and tell them this is a great place to see it and
35:01
they're going to have to wait otherwise.
35:02
Or you can make it more expensive and make the whole
35:05
thing an experience that people want to do that it's, you know,
35:08
that had is there a is there a restaurant in the cinema?
35:11
Is there something, is there an interval?
35:14
Put intervals back and halfway through the film, everyone bring
35:19
somebody in with an ice cream. Or like you can go out and
35:22
interact with things. Or, you know, to make it that
35:24
more of an experience is that it seems like there's those two
35:27
ways to go. There are.
35:29
Which, which, which one do we want to go?
35:31
Do we want cinema to actually be the ballet and opera route where
35:35
it still exists and it's still around and it's maybe a little
35:37
bit more minority, but it's really is an experience that you
35:40
want to go to. Like going to the theater and
35:42
you you get dressed up. Though having said that, last
35:45
time I went to the theater, people weren't dressed up.
35:47
I don't know. I think when you go, because
35:49
obviously I am still going to cinema, there are films that are
35:52
sold out. Are there too many films?
35:55
Have we got so much choice now that we've become blind?
36:00
So a Wuthering height was full. You know, I went to see Wicked,
36:04
obviously when it came the second one and the first one
36:06
full. Obviously Barbie full,
36:08
Oppenheimer full, you know the big those big films are.
36:12
But if I had gone to see Hamner, which I want to still see, would
36:16
it have been full? Probably not.
36:19
Now, that's not necessarily a problem, but there are a lot of
36:23
films. I mean, there's a lot of films
36:25
coming out. And I think one argument is that
36:27
great, because that's the film industry and that's really good.
36:30
We want lots of choice. But because we've got YouTube on
36:33
our phone and we've got streaming and we haven't just
36:36
got Netflix, we've got Prime and Disney and now and Skype.
36:41
It's so many. Are we just a little bit blinded
36:45
by choice? Is that why we don't go?
36:47
I don't know, because because when you go it is full.
36:50
There are people there, but I bet there are other films that
36:53
aren't. Yeah, again, I'm going to use
36:55
Barbie as an example as soon as you brought it up because this,
36:58
I think this is my angle on it, is that to keep it alive, they
37:02
need to make these things more of an experience.
37:04
Because when I went to see Barbie, it was close to the end
37:06
of the summer. I think I probably could have
37:07
already streamed it if I wanted to watch it at home.
37:10
But what I actually did was our, one of our local cinemas, Cinema
37:14
City, which is a picture house cinema, did an outside, they did
37:18
an outside movie. You know what's it called?
37:20
Cinema thing. They did a yeah, an outdoor
37:22
cinema and they, we went, we went to see Barbie.
37:25
They had deck chairs set up. So so, you know, you could still
37:28
you could just grab a chair. You didn't have to take your own
37:30
chair. There was there was deck chairs.
37:32
There was, you know, one of the big pink Barbie boxes that you
37:34
could take photos in. They had a bar at the back that
37:37
you could get up during the film, go and get yourself a
37:39
drink. They had those little mochi ice
37:42
creams for some reason that, you know, you could get a little
37:44
mochi ice cream. So yeah, it was really great.
37:46
And it was experienced. It was absolutely packed of
37:48
people dressed up to go dressed up as Barbie like during the
37:52
whole works. I've also been to several of the
37:54
Secret Cinema presentations as well, which is another thing
37:57
where it's a whole experience. One of the first ones I went to
38:00
see, Casablanca, everyone got dressed up.
38:02
You had a character, they were acting out parts like scenes
38:05
from the film. I did the same with 28 Days
38:08
Later where I I watched 28 Days Later from a hospital bed during
38:12
an A zombie outbreak with zombies running around upstairs
38:17
now. We need both because if it's to
38:20
be accessible, most people either don't want to sit outside
38:24
at a cinema and they don't want to pay for it.
38:28
I think there's having it accessible to everybody, so
38:31
everybody isn't reliant on streaming and they get out the
38:34
house and they put some money into the tills of the cinemas.
38:38
But then also creating that experience being like as we
38:43
start, you know, with opera and ballet and secret cinema and all
38:46
that. Because I think they're two
38:48
different people. And although I would probably
38:51
crossover between both, but generally speaking, it's two
38:53
different people. Barbie, it's a tricky one
38:56
because like Barbie's like Wicked, isn't it?
38:57
Like there was so much marketing that they were posters outside.
39:01
You could just selfie wall and you became a character or Barbie
39:06
or what. So they kind of that helped.
39:08
Oppenheimer had none of that and it was a three hour film about
39:11
the, you know, the atomic bomb and it was amazing.
39:13
They didn't need all that, but it was had the height.
39:16
But I at least I could go and watch it for an accessible
39:18
price. So I think to answer your
39:20
question about which way, I actually think we need both.
39:23
I think we need it to be accessible.
39:25
So that £5 becomes I'll go and watch that film Survivor.
39:30
I mean, that's not and if I can bring my own snacks, it's a
39:32
fiber and it will be sold out because it's only a fiber.
39:35
But also people that want that experience and want date night
39:40
or you know, you only go out every so often, you want it to
39:43
special. I never go to the cinema with my
39:45
husband because if we've got well, it's different now because
39:48
our kids are older, but when they were younger, if we're
39:50
going to go out on a date night, we don't want to sit in silence.
39:54
I know exactly. You know what I mean?
39:57
That's. Like that's like 2 hours you're
39:59
not getting back. You could do that, yeah.
40:01
We could just do that at home, sitting on our phones, sit in
40:04
silence. So yeah, I don't know if we've
40:05
answered the question, although I think it's opera, and ballet
40:10
has absolutely its plays. And I think to say that nobody
40:13
goes just because. No one's interested.
40:15
It is nonsense. But yeah, I very much think that
40:18
if cinema going doesn't want to become a minority pursuit like a
40:22
ballet and the opera, then it needs to recognise that it does
40:25
have that competition with streaming and pull its socks up
40:27
and like, make it more accessible.
40:29
Absolutely. We're going to end with a
40:38
survey. Survey that always makes me
40:41
think of family fortunes. We asked 100 people.
40:44
In fact, we are 10. We asked 23,000 people because
40:48
that's how many people were in the survey across 29 countries.
40:52
What are your views on basically around equality, marriage, the
40:57
role of man, role of woman? And it's a global survey and the
41:02
survey spoke to all different aged men, but the findings were
41:08
particularly interesting for Gen.
41:10
Z men and boys. I'm going to put that in because
41:15
Gen. Z are 13 year olds.
41:18
So it's 1997 to 2012. So this survey does include
41:23
children. Let's just say, let's call them
41:25
13 year olds a child because that's what they are.
41:28
The findings have been published and everybody is obviously
41:32
aghast because here are the findings.
41:35
So the survey showed that 1/3 of Gen.
41:40
Z men and boys felt that women should obey them.
41:44
And what's interesting, only 13% of Boomers.
41:48
So that's three earlier than 1965 felt the same.
41:53
So obviously that's been the real headline because Oh my
41:56
gosh, are we going backwards? You know, generally is the
41:59
thought, but there's been other other things that have come out.
42:02
So 24% didn't want a woman that was too independent. 33% felt
42:10
that men should have the final word. 59% felt that equality had
42:16
gone too. Far.
42:18
And 21% felt that real woman should not initiate sex,
42:24
interestingly versus 7% of boomers.
42:27
The boomers are at fine for women to initiate sex, funnily
42:31
enough. I was just going to say maybe
42:33
those are the those are the boomers that made it into
42:37
adulthood. Who knows, but obviously they're
42:40
taking what they can get. The boomers that told women they
42:44
had to do as they were told aren't alive anymore.
42:46
So obviously this has been shared a lot, obviously in the
42:49
Guardian and all the press and the style stylist, etcetera,
42:53
etcetera. But I really wanted to chat
42:54
about it because I feel that there is some nuance in this,
43:00
like there is with everything. Funnily enough, I don't want to
43:04
discuss the nuance. So what I don't almost want to
43:06
do is go, oh bloody man, thinking I should have braved
43:09
them. You know, I don't obey anybody,
43:12
which obviously is the truth. I don't.
43:14
We can take that as a given, I think, before we even start.
43:16
Yeah, but actually I think it's really important to talk about
43:19
nuance and, and one of the things that I have read is 2/3
43:24
of Gen. Z men don't believe that women
43:28
should abide. Now I don't have the figures of
43:30
what they felt 10 years ago or 20 years ago or 50 years ago.
43:35
But I'm sure that 50 years ago, more than 2/3 thought, you know,
43:39
thought they should have, you know, like it's, I think it's
43:41
getting better. Yeah, that's right.
43:44
If you took the same age group at different points throughout
43:47
history that those proportions would be different rather than
43:50
at the moment you're comparing what a 13 year old thinks to
43:52
what a 75 year old thinks. And that's a whole different.
43:55
Story. And I think that has really been
43:57
lost in the conversation because when we talk about Gen.
44:00
Z's in the media, I think it's really muddy about who we're
44:04
talking about because in my opinion, nearly 30 year old, 97,
44:09
do the math 29 year old is very different to a 13 year old.
44:14
Massively different. I did a bit of research, so I'm
44:17
going to read from my book just so I get this right, man's
44:22
brain. And I did only look up man's
44:24
brain. So I don't know if women's
44:25
brains are the same. So forgive me if women's brains.
44:27
This isn't about men versus women, it's just about men right
44:30
now. Their brains are not fully
44:32
formed until then, mid 20s. And the part of the brain that
44:36
still needs to be fully formed, you know, the last bit that is
44:39
forming is the part that supports decision making,
44:43
impulse control, and assessing long term consequences.
44:47
And I think that really interesting, particularly as a
44:50
mother of teenagers, that's fact.
44:52
They, they don't look forward. They just read something or they
44:57
see something on TikTok and like to think my kids are a little
45:00
bit better at critical thinking. But still, ultimately they see
45:03
something and they make their decision of what's right and
45:06
wrong there. That's like a duck duck.
45:08
They don't critical think because they're not adults and
45:12
they also don't think about what about what about when I'm 25 and
45:17
I meet somebody, how will that change?
45:19
You know, they don't think that long term.
45:21
And I think 13 year olds being asked what their opinion on
45:24
women obeying is a bit ridiculous because they haven't
45:26
even had a girlfriend. Well.
45:27
So this is what I was thinking. I was thinking how is the
45:29
question phrased as well? You know what I mean?
45:33
If you ask a bunch of 13 year old boys, do you think women
45:36
should obey? Because they should should do
45:39
what they're told. Right.
45:40
Like, do you know what I mean? And.
45:41
I think if you ask them. If you ask them any question
45:44
like that, if it's phrased in that way, like you're going to
45:47
get a potentially, yeah, a very different answer than if you
45:51
yeah, then if you're asking fully, fully formed, grown up
45:54
adults. Absolutely.
45:55
And the other thing within this is it's done across 23
45:58
countries. So I haven't got a list of all
46:00
the countries. I did try and find it but it
46:02
wasn't accessible. UKUS were involved but so was
46:06
India and Middle East, Far East countries.
46:09
So everybody. Has a very different cultural
46:12
standpoint here. It very much what I was talking
46:16
about earlier on when we were talking about the women's
46:18
cooperatives. Very, very similar situation, I
46:20
guess, yeah. It's very different, but one of
46:22
the things I've been, because I do know I like to read the
46:25
comments, all the press has been talking about traditional views
46:30
and actually we've used the word traditional.
46:32
I was looking back at some old podcasts and I think even
46:35
looking back at the sound bites from last week's podcast, we
46:37
kept using the word traditional when we were talking that guy
46:40
from Love is Blind. And, and in the comments there
46:44
are most people saying, can we stop saying traditional?
46:49
Can we start saying sexist? So I think there's this whole
46:52
like conversation as well as is what if your view is this?
46:56
Is it because of your culture? Is it because of your religion?
46:59
Is it because of your lived experience?
47:01
Is it because you're traditional?
47:03
And what does that mean? Or does is it because you've
47:05
been red pilled and you've watched too much Andrew Tate on
47:08
TikTok? Like there's a difference, isn't
47:11
there in they haven't just asked British men, they've asked it's
47:16
been global. So again, is does that mean
47:17
it's? Skewed.
47:18
So it's really interesting. Again, traditional is one of
47:21
those words that yeah, I've used without thinking about it.
47:24
Like I get annoyed with myself when I do that.
47:27
Well, I think to me. Like 1950s, like, yeah, we have
47:32
mentioned that before. I think, I think we've spoken
47:34
about what we mean when we say traditional and that we go back,
47:37
tend to go back to that thing. But it is interesting that we
47:39
colour that as traditional. But when you when you call it
47:43
traditional, rather than calling out for what it is, which is
47:45
sexist or misogynistic or whatever, then you are almost
47:49
legitimizing it by saying it's traditional.
47:51
Like this was, this was the original sorts and like it was
47:54
fine rather than calling it out is something that we shouldn't
47:58
be doing anymore. So that is a very good point and
48:00
I will take that on board and I will.
48:02
One of them will think about that.
48:04
My thoughts was like maybe traditional in this context
48:07
means religious. Let's just say, just say you are
48:11
a practicing Christian or Muslim, you know, whatever,
48:14
whatever religion that is and you so therefore the way you
48:17
live your life is quite traditional.
48:19
You could go to church, you know, you believe you are
48:21
religious, but that doesn't mean you have to therefore think that
48:25
women should obey. It's kind of like if I was a
48:28
tradition, what I think of as traditionals, let's just say
48:31
religious. Let's put that one out there.
48:33
You're allowed to be like super religious and not think that
48:37
women have to obey and not allowed to have any decisions.
48:39
So I think that there are some people also going well,
48:41
actually, I'm quite traditional, but I still call bullshit to
48:44
these stats. I still don't think I should be
48:46
about I don't feel like my wife should obey.
48:48
Even though I have quite traditional values linked to my
48:52
culture or my religion or my upbringing.
48:54
I still actually think we're equal in the house and we we
48:56
should be equal in every way. So I think it's almost like, as
49:00
you said, it's a bit of AI feel. It's a bit of a scapegoat when
49:04
really you should be just going no, if you think women should
49:06
obey, then you are. That's a misogynistic view.
49:10
You are. What did you say wrong?
49:13
What? Yeah.
49:14
I think the other thing that I think is important here is that
49:19
is the is again that media, the way the media likes to frame a
49:22
headline. Because I like.
49:24
The way you brought that up as well that you know, oh, a third
49:27
of Gen. Z boys thinks women should
49:28
abate. And you're like, oh, and there
49:29
you go with 2/3 of men. Gen.
49:30
Z boys don't think women should abate.
49:32
Like, let's not forget about these poor guys who are the
49:35
might be the future of the world, right?
49:37
And we're we're demonizing a whole generation based on a
49:39
behaviour of less than half of them.
49:42
And what would be amazing in that headline is then also
49:45
compared to 10 years ago when it was only half, you know, like,
49:50
let's see some progression. I mean, don't get me wrong,
49:52
there are a lot of and we talk about it a lot.
49:54
There are a lot of men out there that do think women should be
49:58
obeying and and should be Pilates princesses and not have
50:01
an opinion and not initiate say I mean even that not initiate
50:04
sex. What?
50:05
Like, I mean, that sounds like the kind of thing that a 13 year
50:08
old boy says when they've never had it.
50:10
I don't know, I feel like they dream of with.
50:13
But then again, again, one of the things I was reading within
50:16
this was we need to not just blame in cell culture podcasts,
50:23
you know, TikTok, etcetera, etcetera.
50:25
It's the rise and accessibility of porn, which is accessed by
50:29
boys as young as eight. Well, we know toddlers have even
50:32
seen it, but you know, 8 year olds, 9 year olds, 10 year olds
50:34
and where women are therefore objectified and don't initiate
50:39
sex because they put the kind of porn they're watching is very
50:43
aggressive and the man is initiating the sex.
50:46
So therefore that when they're forming opinions about sex,
50:51
their opinions have already been formed because of what they've
50:53
seen. And I think that hasn't been
50:55
talked about enough within this. And I did see some people
50:58
beginning to talk about that. And it's like there are, there's
51:00
lots of different layers to this, but as you say together.
51:05
Kind of access that that that young, young boys, young men
51:08
have two things like pornography and the podcasts and there's so
51:16
much information that they're exposed to with their their tiny
51:19
little brains. Well, yeah.
51:23
The forming of those ideas, it's very precarious, I think.
51:27
I think it's a. It's a landscape that must be
51:29
incredibly difficult to navigate, and it must be very
51:31
difficult to navigate as a parent, I should think.
51:34
To my children last night about all the topics I do talk to to
51:38
get the Gen. said so that I can be done with the kids.
51:41
Done with the kids. And my son said he doesn't know
51:46
anybody that supports those views.
51:48
Absolutely. He doesn't know them.
51:49
And I'm like, well, maybe that's because you hang around with
51:51
cool people and maybe, you know, um, to be fair, you know,
51:57
they're all creatives and they're all in their music, you
51:59
know, and they're all into indie punk, you know, so maybe it's
52:03
the people you're surrounding by.
52:04
But he was like, no, I feel like I would have thought he said,
52:07
this is, I would have thought that when I was 13, but now I'm
52:10
18, it's like, no, you know, no, it's made me some hope.
52:15
And then my daughter just, I rolled because she's of an age
52:18
where they are all behaving like that at school, which is
52:22
worrying. And I suppose it is worrying,
52:25
but I want the data. I want more data.
52:27
And it probably is data somewhere.
52:28
There's probably a report somewhere with all the research
52:30
on for this survey. But what countries?
52:34
What was the split between East and West?
52:36
And what was the split between 29 year olds and 13 year olds?
52:41
They've got the stats with Boomers.
52:42
Did they do it with millennials and Gen.
52:44
X? And we just been, we've just
52:46
been eradicated from the headlines.
52:48
We don't even exist. So they were like, oh, that's
52:50
boring, Yeah. Yeah, I mean, did we?
52:52
Because actually I know a load of middle-aged men that have
52:57
views like the ones that are coming up.
52:59
So would they not included what? Where's the stats?
53:02
Yeah, or. Really one actually, I mean, but
53:05
again, I feel very, I feel like, I mean, when I was kind of 1415,
53:10
I spent, I spoke to plenty of boys who told me things like
53:15
women weren't funny, so couldn't do comedy or women couldn't,
53:21
women couldn't do heavy metal. And they would state these
53:24
things like they were facts. Like women just couldn't, they
53:26
didn't have the voices for it or they just, you know, you know,
53:28
and because and because they didn't like it, that was
53:30
obviously just a fact that it was not a thing.
53:32
And you and you do still hear that coming out.
53:34
But the people who said those kind of things to me at that age
53:38
and now, yeah. And now considerably older than
53:42
that. And I think if you ask them now,
53:43
they'd be like, oh, of course they can.
53:46
Well, you say that I also worry. We talk a lot, we, you and I on
53:52
this podcast, but just in everybody in general about young
53:55
boys and the rise of misogyny online.
53:58
But their early opinions are being formed by their parents
54:02
and I think that does not get talked about enough.
54:04
I know enough misogynistic, sexist 53 year olds.
54:09
In fact, I know this is going to sound harsh.
54:11
The lion's share are and obviously I try and surround
54:14
myself by people that don't feel like that.
54:16
My husband doesn't thankfully, but those are the people that
54:19
have bringing up the Gen. Z's and have brought up the Gen.
54:22
Z's and I feel sometimes we need to be a lot more.
54:27
I say finger pointing. I don't know if it's necessarily
54:29
that talking about parents and the roles we've had and the fact
54:33
that we don't know what Gen. X are saying in this research.
54:36
Well that's telling isn't it? Because they've brought all
54:37
brought up the Gen. Z's who are thinking this.
54:40
So it's kind of like moms and dads do.
54:43
Play a role in this yes I think see, I don't know maybe I just
54:49
maybe I don't talk to enough people, but it's they're not
54:51
attitudes. I, I do, I'm always, I'm always,
54:54
when I hear somebody, anybody in my actual real life reflect
54:58
views like that, I'm always surprised.
55:00
It's not something that I come across basically in my life
55:04
apart from online idiots. So again, maybe it's that I
55:07
surround myself with nicer people.
55:09
And like I was saying, even some of the people that might have in
55:11
the past kind of parroted those kind of those kind of views at
55:15
me as they've got older, I really think that they, they
55:21
don't say those things anymore, that they've, they've learnt,
55:24
their brains have formed. To the children potentially
55:28
because you don't have children have to communicate with the
55:31
parents of those children. I think once you have children,
55:35
you have to talk to other moms and dads.
55:38
I can't get away with not doing it.
55:41
And you kind of befriend some of them and they're in your world.
55:45
And now my kids are older, they still are in my world because we
55:48
have to communicate about like who's picking them up from
55:50
wedding festival and or whatever.
55:52
We're still communicating. And so you, I think.
55:55
I guess it takes you out of a bubble.
55:56
Yeah, you end up knowing people whose children are the same age
56:01
as yours and therefore that's your connection, not because
56:04
they're your people. Obviously you do trying to get
56:09
you do gravitate towards your people, but you also there are
56:12
plenty of people I know whose children are the same age as my
56:16
children who share very right views, for example.
56:21
Yeah, they're all they're they're monsters, my dear, and
56:24
they are because they also, and I'm not saying the dads in the
56:26
village, right things on posts on Facebook.
56:28
But when you go on Facebook and you read all that, you know, you
56:32
look at their pictures that they're like 50 year old guys.
56:34
So I think it would be really interesting to know what they
56:38
do. They expect their wives to obey.
56:40
They've given up. I guess to finish up to be in
56:43
your opinion, because you know more about the Gen.
56:45
Z's than I do because you are down with the kids, unlike me.
56:49
Do you think there's hope for Gen.
56:51
Z boys? Yes.
56:52
I actually think though I was going to say yes, positive, it's
56:55
the Gen. A's.
56:56
You've got to keep your eye on the Gen.
56:58
A's. The next lot are the ones that.
57:01
We need to change things. We need to change because, you
57:05
know, like the adolescence program on Netflix, you know,
57:08
which obviously really got people talking about loneliness
57:12
in boys and misogyny and online in cell culture.
57:15
It's the 11 twelves and thirteens are the ones really,
57:20
really seeing it. And that's all we're seeing
57:22
because they're not going out. I feel like, I feel like I have
57:27
hope for Gen. Z because they're also the
57:29
people that are really fighting for change.
57:31
They're fighting for a greener world, the planet.
57:35
There's so much hope with young people.
57:37
I actually get really excited when I see them, you know, being
57:42
political, talking about politics.
57:43
You know, I think there is real hope.
57:45
And I think sometimes when I look at Gen.
57:47
ZS, I see what I was like at uni when I was going on protests
57:50
and, you know, I feel like there's that I actually worry
57:53
about the very yacht, the bottom of the Gen.
57:55
ZS. So the 34 and then the Gen.
57:58
A. That's the bit that we've got to
58:00
change, because they are not. Going out, apparently learning
58:05
that critical thinking early enough.
58:06
So I've been. Exposed potentially to different
58:09
opinions and attitudes. I also think, and this is you've
58:12
seen a lot of this in the comments, that they're going to
58:14
have to adapt because we all know that Gen.
58:16
Z women and girls aren't putting up with this shit anymore.
58:19
Yeah, so some of that gotta give.
58:22
That's going to be the answer. Boys can think whatever they
58:25
want, but if they But if the women don't agree?
58:29
Well, it's back to that passing on your genes and that, you
58:33
know, and all that stuff and not getting, people aren't getting
58:35
married anymore and can't having children.
58:37
It's like, well, you're going to have to, something's got to
58:40
change. Otherwise, that will carry on,
58:41
and we will. International Women's Day.
58:46
Back to the protests. Yeah.
58:48
Yeah. OK on that note, might be time
58:50
for me to fall asleep after my holiday.
58:53
Thank you for joining us for another roundup of midlife chat,
58:56
hot takes, and occasional moaning.
58:58
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