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Every Good Sermon Has Application · Pastor John Piper's answers

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  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Ask Pastor John podcast. About a
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  Speaker 1: month ago, I think it was we looked at how
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  Speaker 1: to apply the Old Testament stories to our lives some
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  Speaker 1: helpful Bible reading tools there for how to move from
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  Speaker 1: ancient Old Testament narratives to our own lives. That was
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  Speaker 1: APGA twenty one eighteen. Today we look at sermon application,
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  Speaker 1: more specifically, how important is life application to a sermon?
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  Speaker 1: Can you even have a sermon without application? Or is
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  Speaker 1: application optional and unnecessary? That is a great question from
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  Speaker 1: a young woman in Washington State. Hey, hello Pastor John,
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  Speaker 1: and thank you for the Ask Pastor John podcast. I'm
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  Speaker 1: ready to say that my pastor does a great job
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  Speaker 1: teaching us the details of the Bible. But Sundays are
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  Speaker 1: also very much academic lectures. While I leave church with
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  Speaker 1: a head full of knowledge and history and facts, I
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  Speaker 1: don't often come away with a message I can apply
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  Speaker 1: to my life that helps me grow as a Christian.
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  Speaker 1: I've asked him to consider adding some application to a sermons,
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  Speaker 1: but this suggestion has led to no changes that I
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  Speaker 1: can perceive. You've heard this exact same criticism yourself. I
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  Speaker 1: remember you saying in APJA episode nineteen sixty eight titled
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  Speaker 1: ten criticisms of John Piper's preaching. The number nine criticism was, quote,
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  Speaker 1: you don't give enough application, Piper. You focus mainly on
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  Speaker 1: exposition and not enough on application to real life situations. Quote.
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  Speaker 1: And then you suggested that a decade of ten minute
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  Speaker 1: applications and aspacer John episodes is your way of doing
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  Speaker 1: penance for those years without ten minutes of application at
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  Speaker 1: the end of sermons. That's quite funny. But seriously, how
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  Speaker 1: much life application should a preacher seek to offer in
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  Speaker 1: a Sunday sermon?
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  Speaker 2: I doubt that it is possible to give a quantitative
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  Speaker 2: answer to the question how much life application should a
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  Speaker 2: preacher give in a sermon? But I think we will
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  Speaker 2: get at it by what application is in preaching. It's
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  Speaker 2: not a simple thing. How does application relate to exposition?
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  Speaker 2: Or another word for exposition would be explanation. So I
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  Speaker 2: want to make the case that all good application is
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  Speaker 2: further exposition. That is, it's part of the explanation of
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  Speaker 2: the meaning of the text. It's not something merely added
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  Speaker 2: on to the exposition or explanation. Good application more deeply
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  Speaker 2: explains makes the original meaning clearer. Sharper more compelling, and
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  Speaker 2: I want to make the case that the other way
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  Speaker 2: around is also true. Namely, no exposition or or explanation
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  Speaker 2: of the text is complete as exposition without application to
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  Speaker 2: real contemporary living. Now that may sound like I'm just
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  Speaker 2: contradicting my pattern in life, but hear me out. God's
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  Speaker 2: communication to us is never without implications for the living
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  Speaker 2: of our lives. Those implications are part of what he
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  Speaker 2: is trying to communicate in the Bible. They're not a
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  Speaker 2: separate thing. That's part of what he's trying to communicate,
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  Speaker 2: the implications for our lives of what he teaches. Therefore,
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  Speaker 2: the exposition of that communication is not complete if those
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  Speaker 2: implications do not touch the lives of the people in
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  Speaker 2: the pewre and that touching we often call application. So
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  Speaker 2: you can see I'm not happy with the hard dividing
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  Speaker 2: line between explanation and application. Good and full explanation includes application,
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  Speaker 2: and good and helpful application deepens explanation. There is no
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  Speaker 2: heart and fast line between them. And I think I
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  Speaker 2: can show this by taking a sample text and describing
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  Speaker 2: three stages or kinds of exposition merging with application. So
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  Speaker 2: let's take Romans eight thirteen Paul says, if you live
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  Speaker 2: according to the flesh, you will die. Let's just take
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  Speaker 2: that phrase. The rest of it says, and if you
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  Speaker 2: put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
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  Speaker 2: But don't have time to deal with both halves. If
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  Speaker 2: you live according to the flesh, you will die. Now,
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  Speaker 2: the preacher's first job is to explain what that means.
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  Speaker 2: What is God trying to communicate to his people. To
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  Speaker 2: do that, we need to explain what flesh is. We
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  Speaker 2: need to explain what dying is. We need to explain
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  Speaker 2: what live according to the flesh is. So flesh, dying, living,
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  Speaker 2: that has to be explained. At least those three things
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  Speaker 2: have to be exposited or opened or explained, not with
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  Speaker 2: ideas that coming out of our own head, right, but
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  Speaker 2: with Paul's ideas, so that we're thinking his thoughts after him,
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  Speaker 2: not just making up our own thoughts and putting them
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  Speaker 2: in his mouth. So to explain the meaning of flesh,
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  Speaker 2: the preacher might back up a few verses and see
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  Speaker 2: how the word flesh was used in verses seven and eight,
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  Speaker 2: Or he might go to Galatians five nineteen and show
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  Speaker 2: from the works of the flesh what the flesh is
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  Speaker 2: with regard to the meaning of death, he might observe
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  Speaker 2: that everybody dies of physical death, whether they live according
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  Speaker 2: to the flesh or not, and so death in this
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  Speaker 2: verse must be more than physical death, because only those
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  Speaker 2: who live according to the flesh will die this death.
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  Speaker 2: Might argue that way and go to chapter six, verse
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  Speaker 2: twenty three of Romans to flesh it out. Thirdly, he
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  Speaker 2: might observe that living according to the flesh would mean
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  Speaker 2: that the impulses of the flesh that he has now
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  Speaker 2: defined get the upper hand and control the life. Now,
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  Speaker 2: the pastor may take five or ten or fifteen minutes
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  Speaker 2: to do that. I just took two, and he unpacks
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  Speaker 2: the three explanatory ideas of flesh, death, living, and he
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  Speaker 2: may do so with zero reference to the people sitting
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  Speaker 2: in front of him. That I think is what gives
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  Speaker 2: preaching a lecture fee and makes a person think that
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  Speaker 2: his mind is being taught, but his life is not
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  Speaker 2: being shaped. So what I think is better than that
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  Speaker 2: is for the preacher at every point in the exposition
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  Speaker 2: the explanation, to look the people in the eye over
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  Speaker 2: and over again in the exposition, using the pronoun you
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  Speaker 2: you like they're in the third pew and asking them,
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  Speaker 2: do you see these realities? Do you see them right
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  Speaker 2: now in your own life? Do you know what your
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  Speaker 2: flesh is? Do you know what living is? And dying
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  Speaker 2: in heaven and hell? Are? I'm talking to you? And
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  Speaker 2: he's doing that as he does exposition. He's not abstracted
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  Speaker 2: like he's outside of the room during exposition, inside room
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  Speaker 2: during application. No, every explanation is not an explanation in
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  Speaker 2: the abstract, but an explanation as it were, of some
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  Speaker 2: dynamic in our lives. I would call this applicatory exposition
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  Speaker 2: or applicatory explanation. The preacher's not waiting until the explanation
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  Speaker 2: is done to press these realities on the hearers. You
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  Speaker 2: look at them in the eye and you say, do
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  Speaker 2: you know what your flesh is? And he's saying that
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  Speaker 2: during his exposition on what is the flesh? If you
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  Speaker 2: don't know what your flesh is, how will you obey
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  Speaker 2: this text? Another you're creating an extential problem for these
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  Speaker 2: people as you're doing the exposition to show them how
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  Speaker 2: the exposition itself is very relevant for their lives right
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  Speaker 2: now in this moment, do you want to know what
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  Speaker 2: your flesh is? Or are you just sitting there indifferent
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  Speaker 2: to whether you live or die. According to this text,
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  Speaker 2: those kinds of questions are eyeball to eyeball connections. They
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  Speaker 2: don't have to wait for application. That's the way you
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  Speaker 2: talk as you do explanation. If living according to the
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  Speaker 2: flesh means daily life without reference to God, say you
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  Speaker 2: call attention to the fact that this is your life.
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  Speaker 2: We're dealing with right now as I do this explanation,
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  Speaker 2: I'm dealing with your life. You're going to die if
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  Speaker 2: you live according to the flesh. Pay attention to what
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  Speaker 2: I'm doing here. This is for you. This exposition has
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  Speaker 2: enormous immediate applicatory significance for your life. Is your life
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  Speaker 2: lived without reference to God most of the time? If
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  Speaker 2: dying means permanently and in hell, ask them when's the
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  Speaker 2: last time you pondered the possibility of hell? Does it
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  Speaker 2: have a functioning place in your life? This verse sure
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  Speaker 2: calls you to have that place in your life. Another
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  Speaker 2: name you might give to this kind of exposition or
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  Speaker 2: explanation is urgency of exposition. Exposition itself can be done
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  Speaker 2: academically or existentially with a sense of urgency, because everything
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  Speaker 2: in this text matters Ultimately, you don't have to wait
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  Speaker 2: until the last ten minutes of the sermon to urgently
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  Speaker 2: press these realities that you're expositing onto the hearts of
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  Speaker 2: the hearers. Here's a second stage of exposition after this
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  Speaker 2: kind of urgent, applicatory exposition. I might call it illustrative exposition.
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  Speaker 2: And I think this is what many people think of
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  Speaker 2: when they think of application. You look at your people
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  Speaker 2: and you ask, what would be an example this afternoon
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  Speaker 2: at three o'clock of living according to the flesh? And
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  Speaker 2: you pause and you wait, let them think, and he
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  Speaker 2: might say, you will be living according to the flesh
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  Speaker 2: this afternoon at three o'clock. Husband, If your wife says
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  Speaker 2: something that feels demeaning or dismissive and you sink into
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  Speaker 2: a sequence of emotions like self pity, anger, sullenness, pouting, withdrawal,
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  Speaker 2: that is not the way of Christ. That is not
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  Speaker 2: the way of the spirit men. That is the way
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  Speaker 2: of the flesh. And if you live in that way
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  Speaker 2: without repentance, you will go to hell. It's that practical, guys,
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  Speaker 2: That's what I'd call illustrative exposition. And I say it's exposition. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: I say it's exposition. Not just illustration, because at that
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  Speaker 2: moment this text just might open up with its proper
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  Speaker 2: meaning to those husbands who've been daydreaming until I nailed them.
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  Speaker 2: Then you mentioned one more stage of the exposition, which
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  Speaker 2: we might call soul penetrating exposition. At this point, the
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  Speaker 2: preacher might pose the question, so, how does this verse
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  Speaker 2: motivate you congregation not to live according to the flesh?
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  Speaker 2: How does it motivate you? Pause? Wait, let them look
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  Speaker 2: down at their text. The answer is it threatens you
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  Speaker 2: with death and hell if you do live according to
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  Speaker 2: the flesh. That's how it motivates you. Now that's going
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  Speaker 2: to make people really uncomfortable. Right, You've just created a
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  Speaker 2: big problem because everybody knows that's not a good enough motivation.
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  Speaker 2: But then you ask, the more penetrating question, is the
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  Speaker 2: fear of hell which this verse creates? It ought to?
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  Speaker 2: Is the fear of hell an adequate motivation for putting
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  Speaker 2: the flesh to death? And you pause and you wait.
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  Speaker 2: See what they would answer in their head. All of
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  Speaker 2: this is application with urgency. And then you take another
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  Speaker 2: ten minutes in your sermon to unpack how it is
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  Speaker 2: that you put to death the deeds of the body
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  Speaker 2: by the spirit and not just by fear and what
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  Speaker 2: that means. So what I'm saying is that there is
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  Speaker 2: a way to do exposition which is applicatory and illustrative
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  Speaker 2: and penetrating. And we're not to insist that pastors carve
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  Speaker 2: up their sermons between exposition and application. I want to
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  Speaker 2: encourage pastors to have a flavor and a spirit of penetrating, urgent,
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  Speaker 2: applicatory exposition at every moment in the sermon.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, very good thoughts on a question that proves to
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  Speaker 1: require a not so simple answer. Thank you, Pastor John,
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  Speaker 1: and thanks for so vividly illustrating your points too for
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  Speaker 1: us here. Greatly appreciated, and thanks for joining us today.
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  Speaker 1: If you have a question to ask Pastor John, find
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  Speaker 1: a link to email us and find our complete episode
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  Speaker 1: archive at askpastor John dot com. Every episode with audio
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  Speaker 1: and full transcripts available for you. We're back next time,
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  Speaker 1: returning to the topic of artificial intelligence and using it
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: to help us write and edit sermons and ministry update newsletters.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Where's the ethical line to be drawn here? That's a
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: great follow up question. Next time. I'm Tony Ranky. See
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  Speaker 1: you on Monday.