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Conscious Capitalism: Thomas Eckschmidt on Purpose, Integrity, and Business Success · Authentic Living

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Welcome to Authentic Living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
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about things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Terhaj.
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Everyone, it's Roxanne Durhodge.
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Thanks for hanging out with us again.
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Today, have a special guest all the way from, originally from Sao Paulo, but now he's in The
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U.
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S, Thomas Eckschmidt.
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Thomas, how are you today?
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I'm very good.
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Always excited and happy.
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To have these kind of great conversations, it's just an opportunity to actually share and show
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our audience how so many things connect.
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Absolutely.
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So let me tell you a little bit about Eric.
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You're gonna be able to read all the amazing things about him.
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He has his MBA from the business school in Sao Paulo.
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He's worked in over 20 countries before he launched a successful entrepreneurial career.
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About 12 business just just 12 business awards for patents filed and 11 books published.
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What an amazing feat.
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He teaches conscious capitalism classes in major schools and in corporate governance and
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programs.
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And he's the cofounder and CEO of CBG J, Conscious Business Journey, a global network of
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certified consultants where they accelerate the change to a more conscious business ecosystem.
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So, Thomas, let's let's kinda talk about kinda your path because I'm I'm always curious how
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you started and what kinda got you up into something so profound today about that, I'm
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gonna say, connectedness that you have within business that you brought conscious capitalism
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to us.
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So tell us a little bit about your background.
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One of the things I actually discovered from my personal journey is, you know, from the time I
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was in school, high school, even college, I got some geeks, which I thought it was just a way
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to make some quick money.
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But actually, if I had repeated that consistently, that would be a first business.
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And at some point, I decided to leave all the corporate world consulting and start my own
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business.
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And that's when I discovered something very interesting, that the way I applied this
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business, the way I actually was executing this was very in line with the principles of
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conscious capitalism.
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So I didn't have a purpose per se.
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I had a belief.
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You know, we didn't have a stakeholder map all all, you know, mapped out.
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We had an extended value chain.
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So those elements were there.
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And when I discovered conscious capitalism, I said to myself, you know what?
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I think I'm an unconscious conscious capitalist.
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And over time I discovered most of entrepreneurs are unconscious, conscious
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capitalists.
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And as soon as you become aware of this framework, you have a better chance to succeed
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and generate amazing results, not only economical results, but in multiple dimensions
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of value creation.
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This very short, very quick, this is how I came across and connected to conscious capitalism
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and actually became one of the strongest promoters in the world.
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Have today 1,300 certified professionals in 28 countries.
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Amazing, amazing.
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And ultimately totally aligned with I start expressing my purpose, my personal purpose, and
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ultimately I discovered that I have to accelerate this path.
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So the only way to accelerate is actually teaching other people to do the same thing as I
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do, as opposed to just being the only one doing this.
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So how did there there was a process to democratize this this approach.
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And, you know, since 2015, 78 cohorts of, you know, professionals certified under this
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methodology.
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So it's super exciting.
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So for people that maybe they I would assume they know what that term means, Thomas Yeah.
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Break it down for us because, you know, I think it's a concept, and if you were to look at the
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words, we would understand.
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But from your perspective, can you define it or give us, like, a working definition of what it
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is and potentially what it's not?
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Uh-huh.
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So for me, the those four principles, they're very clearly a the natural expression of anyone
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who starts a business to start an initiative that wants to change the world around you.
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And the world around you has multiple dimensions, your family, your neighborhood,
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your country, the whole planet, so it depends.
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So anybody who starts a business believes that he can do something better, he or she can do
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something better.
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So that belief of being able of doing something better, behind that lies what we call the
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purpose, your cause, how you can actually address an issue.
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The second element is leadership.
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You launch yourself towards this journey, just like the hero's journey.
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Right?
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You get out of your comfort zone, you see like there's an opportunity to deliver something
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better, you launch yourself.
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Now you're in a hero's journey, and you start interacting with multiple stakeholders.
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You recognize the interdependence.
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You will only succeed when the first customer believes you, the first employee decides to
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join you, and that becomes your ecosystem, not just the value chain, but the family of that
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employee, your neighbors, you know, the government, everything else that's alongside
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alongside your journey.
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And this is the biggest challenge, you know, to be, you know, cash flow positive, to be
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profitable.
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So that's the first biggest challenge.
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And once you reach that, you you basically are creating a culture how to operate.
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This space as a small business, as an entrepreneur, as a team of people engaged
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towards that cause, that purpose.
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Now, once you reach profitability, you are a new comfort zone.
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So you expand that comfort zone, and this is when you That's why this is a circular move.
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You keep on going and launching yourself as you expand your comfort zone.
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And now it's just not about the profit, it's like how to increase the impact, how to reach
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more people.
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So for me, those are the four principles that are naturally part of an entrepreneurial
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journey.
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And this what we call today, is a conscious capitalist philosophy, or even deeper, at a
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higher ground, at a higher level, is the conscious business framework, because it
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connects you with what we call the hero's journey, which is in a constant expansion of
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how your business, your initiative, your purpose actually expands beyond just that
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little profitability requirement that you have.
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So it's making the space around the initial concept a better place to be.
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Because, you know, like, you're kind of thinking about, you know, most entrepreneurs,
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they have an idea or they're good at something or they could would do something for free quite
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literally, and they start off kind of, oh, I think I and then before, you know, they have a
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bit of a business, and then they're like, okay.
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Well, maybe I can do more of this.
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But, ultimately, I think there has to be a deep burning passion ultimately to make a difference
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with whatever you're putting out in the world.
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Yes.
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And I think that difference is the belief that you can do something better.
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You know, from a smallest thing on improving the the way your family you live with your
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family to, like, larger and most impactful businesses that, you know, start addressing the
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whole world.
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Of course, you always start a smaller space, geography, or influence, and it all comes back
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to the quality of relationships you've built.
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If you look only to extract the maximum economical value from the other party, you just
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exhaust your own system.
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Now when you're improving that relationship and not only creating on that exchange, the product
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or service for the amount of money you're paying, but belonging, engagement, you can
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create so many different levels of relationship.
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That is what actually allows you to keep expanding and expanding your reach within your
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business idea, within your purpose.
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So you said when you started, you realized you were unconsciously-
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Conscious capitalist.
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Conscious capitalist.
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So tell me about that and and what you know, and I'm sure a lot of people listening will
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probably go, well, am I am I conscious or am I semi conscious or where am I on that continuum?
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So tell us about what you started to realize.
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Jeez.
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I'm a bit unconscious here so that people could understand the space that you began in.
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Mhmm.
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And the beauty of this is that we don't know what we don't know.
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Mhmm.
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And I had no idea about this framework.
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So my intention was actually to connect with John Mackie and offer our service to Whole
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Foods.
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And I discovered John Mackie was at a specific conference.
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I invited myself into that conference, and, ultimately, I met John, good friends.
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But my intention was actually to reach for a commercial deal, and I discovered a philosophy,
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a business philosophy.
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And when I say that I was an an unconscious conscious capitalist because I failed, and
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going back to my story, my entrepreneurial journey, I say, I failed here because I moved
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out of this framework.
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That was a decision purely based on economics.
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This was a decision purely based on being bigger, not better.
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So I start identifying every time I was inside that framework, my decisions were better than
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those outside the framework.
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And this, for me, the unconscious conscious capitalist is because I was navigating through
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that road, that framework, but sometimes without knowing the limits, I was just moving
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out.
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It's like driving a road in the dark without seeing there's a road, but you could actually
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feel, I'm on the shoulder, I'll go back.
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I'm on another side of the shoulder, go back.
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So that was my impression.
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And being more conscious about this framework is intentionally actually applying that
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framework in your decision making, in your expansion, in how you treat people, how you
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lead the way forward.
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So it is very different, it's not just as you go, but say, am I doing the right thing?
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Do I have a purpose?
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Am I beyond?
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Is this contributing to advance my intention, my purpose?
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Or is this just a shortcut to make some more money and reach some targets that are most of
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the time arbitrary set, right?
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As opposed to say, yeah, this this is taking me forward on my purpose, on my intention.
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You know, it's so interesting when I listen to you say that because I think most of us,
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including me, when I started my business, was like, okay, well, I'm gonna start speaking and
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consulting and coaching business.
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And my thing, like I think I've shared to you with our couple of conversations prior to being
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able to do the podcast is I always wanted people to have voice.
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So extenuating circumstances in my life made me realize that I didn't have a voice.
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I was quite young, and it was something that I thought, well, maybe I could kinda do this for
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a living.
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And ultimately, an 11 year old concept of, I I I think I might be able to I wonder if we can
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do this for a living, and that's how it started.
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But, you know, what I'm remiss in realizing is that, and I I really hear the two paths you're
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talking about.
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You always hear people talking about scaling.
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Right?
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Let's get you know, I'm at the level.
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I've made my, you know you know, six figures, my multiple six figures.
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I need to scale.
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I need to 10 x, you know, the whole thing.
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And then they go down this trajectory to you know, I have to put the systems in place and
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then, you know, the back end and the SEO and all that stuff, which is the economic lane,
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which is what you're talking about.
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But from the conscious capitalist perspective, what kinds of things like you said, decision
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making, how am I leading, you know, how am I thinking of my end user?
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That's a different perspective because, you know, I'm scaling, and I'm just thinking of the
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bottom line.
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Mhmm.
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But I'm probably gonna have a lot of shrapnel along the way.
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So from the conscious capitalist perspective, tell me how we should understand the framework
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of about scaling.
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Good.
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Scaling has a different speed.
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And because what we do throughout the time and here's a first fact.
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You know, companies that intentionally apply those four principles have economical results,
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financial results up to seven times above the market average, on fifteen, twenty years
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timeframe.
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So it's not about the short term, it's about the medium, long term.
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Because you're not in business to sell it.
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If you're in business to sell it, approach is completely different.
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And it's questionable if that business will hold up on the long term.
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Now, most of the people who start a business, they start because they love what they do, and
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they have the long term vision.
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It's not just like a government, four years and I'm gone, it's a lifetime investment, a
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lifetime journey.
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So what we see a lot of the times when you see this uptrend, this 10 x, the scaling is on the
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medium long term.
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Right?
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So when you want to actually what what you're doing is you're you're creating multiple value
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relationship.
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It's not just the transactional, the product and service in exchange of money.
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You are educating your audience.
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You are, you know, inspiring them so they follow you.
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And I'm gonna give an example.
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So when I started, I was focused on talks, inspiration, and education.
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People got inspired, they came to me because they wanted to learn more.
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And at the beginning, I was delivering my all my training material printed.
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And after pandemic, say, okay, I'm gonna hold on to this.
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I'm gonna do a PDF on copy, you know, you can't do anything.
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And over time I said, you know what, if I'm really interested in accelerating this
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movement, I need to give them the open source of that document so they can change it, adjust
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it and use it right away.
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And over time, that was a big challenge with my ego and my eco.
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My ego was saying, don't give that to Roxanne.
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She is better than you.
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She will drive this much, much further away, much, much higher to a much bigger audience.
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But on the other side, my ego is saying, if I want to accelerate this change, I need to
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empower those that learn from me.
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So this is always the challenge.
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It's the fight between the ego is the short term, which we have to look into, and the ego,
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the medium and long term, which will actually generate that income.
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So a lot of my consultants today, those that are certified under this program, they actually
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come back and need help.
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Say, Hey, Thomas, can you give me like five hours, two hours, three hours?
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Hey, Thomas, I have a talk.
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Can you inspire these people?
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Because I'm sure that that's going to generate a lot of leads and we can have some
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contribution.
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So I have 1,300 people.
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They're actually articulating that idea that started from me.
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So this is the long term sustainability effect of balancing ego and eco.
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I like that balancing ego and eco because I think when you think straight scaling, it's
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well, I wanna get, you know, 5,000,000 from a million or, you know, you know, 10 x the five
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or whatever.
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So that's very, very ego driven and very economic to the bottom line.
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And what you're saying here is that conscious capitalism is really about an ecosystem that
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you are really from your initial passion.
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You're you're you're basically holding that away, and you're you may be not going to
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accelerate economically in the same frame, but the but the return on your long term investment
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is just gonna be spread.
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Like, with your 13 little, you know, people out there talking about conscious capitalism,
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you're spreading your initial message.
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And by, I gotta say, reverb, all this business just kinda boomerangs back at you because the
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real the real core fundamental I'm hearing, Thomas, is that the word is getting out there,
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but out of there, out of a an abundant mindset, you're just gaining the solidity, solidifying
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the business, just like you said, from medium Yeah.
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To long
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So on that thought, you know, setting arbitrary targets 10 x, It's easy to achieve because you
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do it at any cost.
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But to that 10x to be sustainable, you need to actually establish a better quality of what you
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offer to the world.
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Because, and this is a big difference, quality is a measure from the outside in.
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I can say I'm the biggest one, and I define, you know, the scale I wanna measure myself
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against.
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So the tallest one in a group that I just teach to smaller people.
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But am I the best one?
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That measure is actually dictated by the system.
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So if people don't see my offer as better than others, I might start failing.
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So the economical result derives from your purpose, from the quality of what you deliver.
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Mhmm.
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So economic results is a result economic value creation is a result of the quality that you're
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creating, the quality of the relationships, the the value creation, not only, you know,
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financial as a consequence, but emotional, technological, educational, spiritual, and so
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many others.
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Mhmm.
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You know, such a powerful thing when you hear it laid out that way.
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Because really, especially in the economic times that the world the world is in right now
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with the with The US, with, you know, all the parts of the world.
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I feel like it's, like, like spinning plates.
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Right?
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Like, a lot's going on.
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Some people listening might say, you know what, Thomas?
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This is good if we have time.
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You know, how do I keep my integrity as a business owner?
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You know, I was just coaching a CEO in construction.
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And of course, with all the tariffs, say, with The US and Canada, what's happening is like,
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for instance, he was saying, you know, my my mortgage appraisals go out and the homes that
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was sold, for instance, a year ago to close now, their appraisals are coming back, some of
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them 6 to 800,000 less.
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So, of course, these people can't it's a cascading effect.
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Right?
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So people can't close.
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They're saying, keep my couple $100,000.
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I'm gonna be in dire straits if I do try to close this.
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So there's we're we're seeing a ripple effect of of all that's happening.
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So right now, a lot of people are just trying to keep their, quote, quote, you know, virtual
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doors open.
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What kind of guidance would you give them in this time, I'm gonna say, of of it's a bit of
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economic crisis right now.
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What what words would you give to them about trying to maintain, not lose their integrity,
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and stay the course as much as they can to stay in business.
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Yes.
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You know, I like to use the analogy of a caterpillar and a butterfly, and I was sharing
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this analogy with a a group of entrepreneurs.
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And one of the guys said, you know, Thomas, I see you you you established very clear two
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phases.
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One that you have to actually accumulate, accumulate, accumulate, become cash flow
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positive and profitable.
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And then the other one that you are able to actually spread and help to flourish your
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ecosystem.
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But what about the time the caterpillar is hidden, transforming itself?
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And say, oh my god, never thought about that that phase in between.
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So this is the phase where you as a business leader, you have to accumulate a reserve.
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That's why the Caterpillar has the ability to stop and upgrade to the next level.
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So what we as business leaders have missed, crisis will come over and over.
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That's the moment to come down and concentrate and focus and take care of business, take care
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of our system, our ecosystem.
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So we need to be always prepared for those moments.
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What does that mean?
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It's to keep a cushion to protect your people, your ecosystem.
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Because you, as a business leader, as a strong, you know, player in a sector, you need to be
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careful with that.
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You have a whole responsibility, not just employing people, paying their salaries, but
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create that cushion.
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And it's easy to say it now, but, oh, I have to prepare myself for that.
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Yes, we have to prepare ourselves for that.
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And sometimes what we have to do is there's an amazing example of Barry Weemuller on 2008.
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They have a lot of industrial products and machinery for production line.
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So the orders were actually cut by 40% and say, we have to fire people.
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Say, no, no, no, let's think about different options.
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So they exchanged thirty days of unpaid vacation with their employees.
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Some employees say, I can take sixty, I can't take any because I need to pay a lot of
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different things.
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So how do you know, you have to be creative on on hard times, and you have to involve, engage
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your stakeholders for designing better solutions.
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Absolutely.
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And we had that opportunity with the pandemic, didn't we?
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Yes.
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Right?
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I know it's I would say it's a different, was a different serpent with a different head.
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Let's say that.
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Mhmm.
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But, really, we did have that lesson just happened to us.
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Right?
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And I'm gonna say from a conscious capitalism phase, the lessons were there.
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You have to iterate, I would assume, I would say.
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Yeah.
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But really, it's about and I would go back, and I completely agree with you because when I
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interviewed most of the leaders from my book, it was when the pandemic was starting.
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And the leaders that really did well were the ones I remember there was one leader, Thomas.
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He had it was a smaller company.
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He had 200 employees.
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So he had his VA, his executive VA call every one of them.
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So everybody was petrified.
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Right?
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They were like, the CEO is calling me And for a little what he did was that he checked in and
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he asked for perspective just of what you were saying.
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I says, I will do whatever I can to ensure that we keep functioning, but what do you think you
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can bring to the table to help me with this plan?
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Yes.
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And clearly, he didn't need the second iteration of what we're going through here.
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He was already implementing it, you know, with the concept of of how can I reach out to what
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I've already built with good relationships, again, ecosystem concept?
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And then people were bringing it, yeah, let's go back.
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Let's go you know what?
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I've I've got an extra four weeks banked.
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I'm gonna leave that.
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I don't need to take that for quite a long time.
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Let's go.
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I can do, you know, three and a half days and share with somebody else, and they came up with
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this massive plan.
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Not one person was laid off, and it continued to function.
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This is so this is a good, beautiful example of what you're saying.
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So The
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the beauty of this example, like you just shared, and what Barry Wimiller, Bob Chapman
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did, is that the two years after 2008, after the crisis, they had their best, most
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profitable years.
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And what they did on those, with that profit was not just to give people back the money,
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commit to the long term plan, which is they deposited that money that they decided to give
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up, because I take unpaid vacation, on their retirement fund.
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Wow.
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Because if you get the money today, now you're good, you're stable, everything is working.
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Just more money is great, but that money in your future will make a much better transition
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for you.
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So this is how we play the long term game, not just let's do it all now, short term, 10x, and
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this urgency.
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Nature is not urgent.
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Nature responds in seasons, in years, in decades, and we need to learn to breathe with
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nature, not against nature.
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The best system where we can learn from is nature, the best research and development
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department.
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You don't see trees breaking down other trees to gain more space.
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You don't see a huge, 100 feet tall tree on its own with nothing around it.
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A strong tree is only as strong as its surroundings.
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So if you as a big business, and that's the tall tree, the tallest tree is also the one
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actually offering that space for everything else to grow around it.
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So we as a larger company, we have more responsibility, not just paying tax, salaries,
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we have a responsibility to cover for those variations, for the up and downs of the
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economical growth, because it will happen.
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And we had 2008, we had pandemic, and a new one was coming, is what's happening now.
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No.
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Absolutely.
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And this may this may, you know, the pandemic is time limited.
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This may this may be existing for quite a while where there's gonna be massive, I would say,
27:59
long term shifts globally
28:01
Mhmm.
28:02
To address these concerns.
28:03
Because now here in Canada, for instance, what's which is a good thing.
28:08
Mhmm.
28:08
It's forced us to collapse our our tariffs within our provinces
28:14
Yeah.
28:14
So to be more self sustaining.
28:16
Right?
28:17
And versus kind of our next door neighbor because we we were kinda too reliant.
28:22
We were too reliant.
28:23
So your your example of the tree is we became we came kinda like a moss and little things
28:28
that surrounded it, but we we we weren't reciprocal and hence, you know, what's been
28:34
happening.
28:35
But I like that that symbiotic you know, it's like the golden golden rule.
28:39
Right?
28:39
Like, the three six nine.
28:40
When you look at that and you really you know, sometimes, you know, when you're when I go for
28:44
my walks and you're and you look at a a little flower.
28:46
It's a wildflower, and you're like, there's a pattern here.
28:48
Like, how does how does this wildflower that's somewhere in a bush that's that you that's
28:54
sticking out because you see it and you look at it and you're there's natural laws around us.
28:59
So I love the fact that you're talking about that.
29:02
So, really, for for leaders listening, it's it's really you know, you know what I talk
29:07
about, which is the ROR, which is return on relationships.
29:10
And it's about awareness, which is what you're saying.
29:12
Right?
29:12
Like, you know, to go into that, to take this time, take the time with the cat when the
29:18
caterpillar, like you said, stops and be reflective versus being reactive, which is what
29:23
I often talk about is knowing your internal space as the human being that has been
29:29
privileged to gain the ability to lead and what responsibility you need to take, first of all,
29:35
for yourself, you know, so that you did in turn, you can impart it on others.
29:39
But I think a lot of people, which is what happened, I think globally, but especially
29:43
between Canada and US, there was a whole lot of massive reaction and fear, right, which is, you
29:51
know, fear in conscious capitalism.
29:54
What happens to where does fear fit in conscious capitalism?
29:58
Fear is the balance between ego and eco.
30:03
I knew you were gonna say that.
30:05
Because ultimately, when you've well, Canada was extremely dependent on The United States
30:12
market or that relationship.
30:14
Now there's a movement saying, I don't want to be dependent anymore, I want to be independent.
30:21
The risk of that to isolate yourself.
30:25
So what you want to be is interdependent, so there's no one relationship that represents a
30:32
huge amount of value or volume or the relationship, the space, because that can break
30:40
you.
30:42
Right, and I think I like that concept that with my business, those times you need to walk
30:50
away from certain contracts because it may it may propel you to that 10 x or whatever, but
30:56
you know that if you go down that route, there's certain things that you have to give
31:00
away in reference to your initial meeting and purpose for your business, which is hard a lot
31:07
of times for people because they say, here.
31:09
Here's this big mammoth company that wants to deal with me.
31:13
And but if they close-up shop and say, by the way, you know, Alexander Hutch, I don't think
31:17
so anymore, then you're you're in trouble versus slowly.
31:21
So Mhmm.
31:22
Conscious capitalism may be that it's gonna it may take you longer Mhmm.
31:27
To plant the trees, but you're gonna pick the right trees for the right environment with the
31:33
roots and the things that will surround you that would sustain regardless if you go and we
31:39
will go through things again in the world.
31:40
But the next time around, hopefully, people learn so that they don't make the miss same
31:46
mistakes.
31:47
Yes.
31:48
Mhmm.
31:49
Wow.
31:49
It it return on relationship is what nature does best.
31:57
Mhmm.
31:58
All the symbiosis.
31:59
And biomimicry has actually taught us first that the structures nature built are better in
32:06
shape, in everything.
32:08
But the true benefit of studying biomimicry is understanding the exchange in those
32:15
relationships between different species, different structures, different ecosystems,
32:21
everything else.
32:22
So that is what can teach us being less isolated or less thinking as a line, like that
32:31
myopical view of we are a sequence of activities, but we are a whole ecosystem.
32:36
What's around us actually affects us and we affect them, neighbors, competition, and how
32:44
competition, sometimes we think competition is next door, competition is at the other side of
32:48
the world, but it makes us better.
32:51
Here's the thing, competition makes us better.
32:53
Without competition, we don't have any need to improve.
32:58
We might even decrease quality because I don't have to do anything, I sell it anyway.
33:05
So everything is part of this whole thing.
33:08
And if you look at the studies done at the Yellowstone, they actually took the wolves out
33:13
of the Yellowstone because that was the biggest risk to humans, and the large animals came down
33:20
to actually eat at the lower level and it just destroyed the whole balance in the ecosystem.
33:25
They brought the wolves back.
33:27
So deers went up higher in the mountain, so the trees and the bushes start growing again.
33:33
Now you have bunnies and you have rabbits and then you have birds coming back and they have
33:37
smaller fruits.
33:38
So we rebalanced the ecosystem.
33:43
If we are
33:44
not so simple, Thomas, but why has the world been missing not all companies but you you'll
33:52
hear people like Elon Musk everybody says you know he's a genius but you know his style is
34:01
not like what we're talking about right?
34:03
You know, so people say, look, there he's successful.
34:07
All these bigger companies are successful.
34:10
What do you what what what do we how do we approach that?
34:14
Well, that's the wrong measure of success.
34:18
You know, we have to think because just yesterday, I saw, you know, a conversation
34:22
about the debris in space.
34:25
There's so much debris in space and a small piece of metal at such a high speed, it's it
34:32
could be stronger as than a bullet.
34:34
It could hit another satellite, could bring so much stuff down, and it could actually impede
34:40
us to to go elsewhere.
34:42
So without any coordination of let's do this together, say, that's why we are
34:48
interdependent.
34:49
It's not only one company because everybody goes on their own and say, well, guys, let's
34:53
get together and have a plan because we have so much debris out there.
34:57
And that might put us in risk not being able to put more satellites up there.
35:03
And now we don't have cell phone conversation anymore.
35:05
We don't have weather maps anymore, forecast anymore, because we might lose that access.
35:12
So we need to be smarter.
35:17
Yeah.
35:17
Not just work harder.
35:19
That's why I say, you know, quality actually precedes the economical result in a sustainable
35:26
manner.
35:27
And I will go back to what Larry Fink said that we need to be he he he sends less met letters
35:36
to CEOs of publicly traded company, and he changed from sustainability ESG to and
35:43
pragmatism.
35:44
We will only grow if we consume more energy.
35:48
The question is what kind of energy and how we distribute the energy consumption evenly
35:56
because that will actually help us continuously grow.
36:01
So he just adjusted his, you know, message, not to create more conflict or, you know, and and
36:11
if we think about capitalism, maybe we should stop talking about a new way of doing
36:15
capitalism, but a new way of doing business because everybody knows we can do business
36:20
differently, but we don't know how to tweak capitalism.
36:25
Yeah.
36:25
Right?
36:26
So maybe what we should actually promote return on relation and a conscious business framework.
36:36
So those are the things that will actually contribute with something I can't act on.
36:41
Right.
36:42
Anything else the system is a consequence again the quality of the system is determined by the
36:47
quality of its components, businesses.
36:50
If we change business, how they operate, if we change how we relate to each other to create
36:56
value, our relationship will be much better.
37:00
And if you do that from a systemic perspective, the micro to the micro, with every incremental
37:07
tactical little decision.
37:09
Like, how powerful would that be?
37:11
Right?
37:11
Like, I'm gonna change this widget, but now I'm gonna think, If Roxanne and Thomas work
37:16
together and they're the frontline, but then they have to report to r and d, and then they
37:20
have to go back to business and tell them the validity.
37:24
And you're constantly doing that and you have everybody, regardless of their role, having
37:30
that kind of hat on.
37:33
Like how many things would you circumvent business wise you know, with the with the major
37:38
cleanup in IL 9 because there's a disaster.
37:41
You're you're gonna because then, again, you're you're asking all the people, whether, you
37:46
know, your frontline, middle management, or senior management, to always think about how is
37:52
my reciprocity of what I'm doing impacting the entire system all the time.
37:58
Yes.
37:59
Right?
37:59
So how much more powerful can one little tactical decision or something huge, like, that
38:07
would completely set the stage, like you said, for medium to longer term growth.
38:11
Because now you're it's like having a little minions all in there, work it together, and
38:15
figure it out.
38:16
And then and then you're like, oh, we we did that before.
38:19
You know?
38:19
Roxanne Thomas figured that out before.
38:21
That's the model that worked for them.
38:22
Maybe that could you can look at it or you can iterate it, and then you can apply it, and you
38:27
can then you can times by 10 because now you have all the metrics for all these little
38:32
things that you've been continually putting it through the same kind of sieve, right?
38:37
It sounds powerful.
38:40
It is.
38:40
And I will always go back to nature because nature is 10x.
38:46
Since the beginning, you plant one corn, one seed of corn.
38:52
How many other how many seeds you get?
38:54
One soybean seed, how many you get?
38:57
It's 10x, 100x.
39:01
But it has a time, it has a cycle, it has it's not 10x tomorrow, 10x when I want it.
39:11
It's 10x when the relationship is allowed to flourish.
39:16
Because I invested the time, because a seed of corn will not grow on a rock.
39:23
It needs to have the proper infrastructure, the proper space.
39:29
So and when we come back to our side, from our business side, if we have a clear purpose and
39:36
we make a decision, say, is this going to advance my intention, my purpose, my cause, or
39:43
is this just a detour?
39:45
It's just a short term fix.
39:47
And when you measure your decisions based on purpose, you have a completely different
39:54
journey because we need it's not abandoning key performance indicators, which are mostly
40:00
economical, adding key purpose indicators.
40:04
So understanding that KPIs are key purpose indicators and key performance indicators, is
40:10
not one or the other, it's both, having both on hand and measuring the clear balance.
40:18
I like the key purpose indicators, that so fits what I talk about.
40:24
I love that term, I hope you've, if you picked it up somewhere or if you haven't, coin it.
40:30
You and I have these conversations stuff comes out.
40:33
I'm like, Oh, you got to coin that, Thomas, and make sure you put that out there.
40:38
Well, has been amazing, amazing.
40:40
I want you to speak directly to leaders now that are listening.
40:44
And this year, there are some people that are doing it well, some people that are kind of
40:51
muddling through, or people that are, you know, are excelling, but they want more.
40:55
I want you to give them some words of wisdom to get us through this time.
41:00
So I'll just give you the floor with that question.
41:03
Thank you.
41:04
My invitation is to look at people, how we would look at our kids with care, with love.
41:13
You know, when Simon Sinek shares leader eat leaders eat less, that's what parents have done
41:22
for centuries when there was not enough food for their kids.
41:28
And this is not just an army or a military practice where we feed the soldiers before
41:35
generals and high rank people.
41:39
That's done from the origin of our tribes, our families.
41:45
So the more we take care of those that come after us, the better care we will take of
41:54
everything else.
41:55
So people have to be the center of what we do in life.
42:01
Absolutely.
42:03
I love it.
42:03
And it's so in alignment with what I work with leaders and their teams.
42:07
Right?
42:08
Like, you know, that space that you invest within yourself brings you the space where you
42:15
can be the best version of yourself most often.
42:18
And at times, you're you're off and to accept those blind spots or those slow spots like you
42:24
said, to recognize that I need to do something different because it's coming from my best
42:30
intention.
42:31
Not, you know, I'm stressed or I'm scared or I'm coming from ego to your point, but I'm
42:36
sitting in a space to say, okay, this is a little bit bigger than me.
42:39
I need to go in my cocoon.
42:41
I gotta think things through and come back, you know, even a bit more rested or things like
42:47
that.
42:48
So, Thomas, tell everybody about your business and what you're doing out there and to where
42:54
people I'm sure you're gonna have people reaching out that will wanna know more.
42:57
So share with them where they can get ahold of you and what you're doing out there in the
43:01
world.
43:02
We do a lot of inspirational talks.
43:05
I think this is the first part.
43:07
You have to inspire people with what you say, what you share.
43:10
From there, we have significant number of educational program.
43:14
The first most important one is the conscious capitalist consultant program or the conscious
43:19
business growth adviser.
43:21
It's how we grow our business in a different way now.
43:24
So this is the message.
43:26
And ultimately, we have also consulting work done, helping companies to actually exchange,
43:31
evolve.
43:33
Very you know, we we try to use internal teams as much as possible because we want that change
43:39
to be part of the business and part of their natural culture.
43:45
Right?
43:45
So we inspire, we educate, and we upgrade.
43:48
So that's our journey.
43:50
We have people in 28 countries helping us.
43:53
We collaborate.
43:54
We work together.
43:56
And, you know, we're here to get better businesses for a better world.
44:01
And that's the last headaches I've done in Quebec.
44:05
So My goodness.
44:06
Wow.
44:06
Amazing.
44:08
So your website is it'll be in the show notes, but if you wouldn't mind letting
44:12
people know.
44:13
Website's cbjourney.com and best way to reach out is through LinkedIn.
44:19
I think this is always a good connection.
44:22
So we learn from each other right away.
44:24
You know, have a lot of mentoring sessions as well with the leaders and, you know, with
44:28
consultants, with people interested in actually developing this this practice as part of their
44:33
practice.
44:33
I say, switch practice.
44:35
Just add this to what you do and upgrade the way you approach, the way you serve your
44:41
community, your audience.
44:43
Absolutely.
44:44
Well, always fun speaking with you, Thomas, and spending time.
44:47
So what I you know, when reflect on what we just talked about, the things that I'm taking
44:53
away is ego, just watching your ego.
44:56
Right?
44:57
And if you go from that frame of the golden rule of nature and the example of the
45:03
Yellowstone, right, try to leave the environment better than when you got there.
45:09
And if you kind of consistently think about yourself as the leader, what is my role?
45:15
And if my purpose is to bring something that much better to the world, how am I taking care
45:24
of myself So I'm no longer doing the key performance indicators, but I'm I'm doing a
45:31
hybrid of the key purpose with the key performance.
45:35
And if you keep that in mind and you teach that ultimately to your teams, like Thomas does with
45:43
conscious leadership, imagine what you will create out of that initial idea that you had
45:51
about your business.
45:53
You could literally see the evolution just in your mind because you know then it becomes
45:59
millions and millions, I'm gonna say, of cells that are out there just by osmosis cross
46:05
pollinating that original idea that you would have probably done for free because you loved
46:11
what you do.
46:13
So my challenge to you is to go out and do that, you know, to try to figure out what it
46:18
takes to get a bit more conscious within yourself.
46:22
And reach out to Thomas.
46:23
And if you're interested on the psychological end to things about leadership and teams, the
46:28
ROR course is starting in the fall.
46:31
It's mostly fall, but I have a couple of spots with a couple of different cohorts right after
46:36
that.
46:36
So I'd love for you to reach out to me, and I'll give you the information further.
46:40
Again, thank you so much, Thomas, for your time.
46:43
And for everybody, grateful that you hang out with me every week.
46:46
Take care.
46:47
Talk to you soon.
46:48
Bye bye.
46:57
Thanks for tuning in to Authentic Living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
47:03
healthy change.
47:04
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach.
47:08
To work with Roxanne, visit roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
47:14
We'll see you next time on Authentic Living with Roxanne.