Latest / WoT Spoilers / A Terrible Feeling - Towers of Midnight chapter 29 - EP562

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A Terrible Feeling - Towers of Midnight chapter 29 - EP562 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers Podcast. All right,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: let's go with this mandala effect freaking wanna be chapter.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: That we are being gas lit by this chapter.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we are here to tell you that you're
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: not crazy.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: You're not crazy.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: You just have a later edition of the book, that's all.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's one thing when they make changes to a
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: word here or there, you know Land sharpening his blade,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: you know his power rot sword. Sure, yeah, this they
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: just cut out a whole section in a way that
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: For no good reason. So listen and find out to
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: what we're talking about, unless you already know, because it's
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: freaking glaring. So I bet some of you already know
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: what we're talking.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: About, especially if you're listening in bed.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Nice. Nice, Okay, So today chapter twenty nine, that's the
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: only chapter we're doing. It's a big, hefty chapter with
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: three po vs, four four povs, and there's a lot
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: to talk about, a lot of pages. And yeah, I
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: think we should just get on into it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Is it worth a reading?
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, we'll do a short little reading. The chapter
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: is a terrible feeling and our symbol is the snake
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: in the wheel because we've got four povs, so we
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: might as well have the all father symbol, the all
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: encompassing symbol.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: This is the wheel of time done. All right?
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: What is Paren plotting? Do you think? Berylene asked as
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: she strolled beside Fayel and Aleandra Fayale didn't answer. The
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: late afternoon was softly lit by a distant sun shrouded
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: in clouds. Soon it would make the horizon burn as
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: it sank down for the night. In two days, Paren
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: would go on trial. He delayed, specifically, she knew to
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: gain more time for the Ashaman to work out the
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: strange problem with gateways. Their army was growing, still more
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: people flooding to them. Scout reports indicated that the White
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Cloak force was growing as well, more slowly, but still growing.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: In days like these, an army was a symbol of
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: strength and at the very least food. That's all I
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: wanted to read in just you know, we're at camp.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: This is a situation. We're waiting, We're waiting, We're waiting,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: bubble of evil. That's kind of the scene.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I think it's also important to point out that the
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: dome is up, yes, specifically because of the fact that
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Tam leaves later and is retrieved by cod Swain, all
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: while the dome is up. Hmm hmmm, hmm.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: How was Ninive able to find and retrieve Tam so
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: sneakily if the dome was in place. I am confused
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: that I didn't notice that. I should have been confused
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: by that.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I thought about that. I was trying to get the
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: timing right, and the things I saw online were people like, well,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: the dome wasn't up yet, or and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: The dome is very much up. The dome was up
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: in our last episode.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: And it's up now. Right. This is the whole thing.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: That's why they're delaying, right, is because they can't gateway
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: people away.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that that's explicitly what is happening.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is the time when Tam is like,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I gotta go.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: How Didtninive happen to know to go just far enough
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: away that she didn't notice that the dome was in place? Like,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: that's what had to have happened, right, is she picked
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: a spot outside of the radius, came in by conventional means,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: took Tam back out by conventional means, and then used
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: a gateway outside of the radius by sheer coincidence.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: That's what it seems to be, because the only thing
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: she knew is that he was camped underneath that statue,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: So you would think she would make a gateway right
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: to that statue.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Exactly what I would do, if that makes sense.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: But that's you is, as far as I can tell,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: still where they're camped and still inside the bubble.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: So we changed the bed scene for no reason, but
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: we left this inaccuracy.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: You were really not good at creating suspense, are we. No.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I am really surprised that I didn't catch that. Glad
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: you caught it, But what the fuck? How are we
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: supposed to resolve.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: That that was? I had that moment when I was like, wait,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: when TAM's leaving, it isn't isn't the bubble up? Well?
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: How did that? I get? And I get that he
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: was visiting a nearby village, right, And they can say, well,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: that village was outside the bubble, But then how did
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Ninie find him if he wasn't near the camp? She
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: didn't have any clue as to where he was because
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: her only clues to where he was was ran seeing
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: through Paren's eyes through the swirling of the colors, which
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: only told him where paren was, which is underneath the dome.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: I guess maybe she went with the if you can
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: go off of a map and pick a nearby town strategy.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: But still it seems like transporting to the statue. Well,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: maybe she tried to transport to the statue. It didn't work,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: and she figured it wasn't accurate enough, so she tried
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: to find like the nearest town that people know about
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: to it, and that was like from maps, she was
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: able to actually make it to that location, and she
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: figured it was just her rather than the dome that
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: was keeping her from getting to the statue.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: You're very carefully spackling over that plot hole.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like this is not we should have had. This
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: should have been addressed in the narrative. There is a glaring,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: glaring hole here, and there are ways that it could
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: have made sense narratively, But you have to put any
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: amount of legwork on the page into that.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Right, right, because like it's clear, it's just the timeline's conflicting.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Because in the timeline he wrote with Rand she gateways in,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: grabs tam and leaves, but then all of a sudden
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: he's created this moment where there's no way to get
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: way in and out, and that happens to coincide with
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: when Tam got snatch back. So what are you going
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: to do? Right, Well, you've got to You've got to
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: somehow on the page say oh, like the dome came
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: down temporarily or I don't know, that's it's a hard redcon.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: But man, you gotta do something. You got to do
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: something to be like, oh Nineve couldn't make it in,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: so she gate weighted to the nearest village and Tam
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: happened to be there.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Because Tam had been sent to Tam and Elias or
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Tam and gall had been sent off to check the
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: nearby villages. So that's already there. But why is Ninive
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: that far away from this statue? We need something on
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: the page otherwise it's a plot hole.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's definitely a plot hole.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there are ways I can imagine to fill
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: that plot hole. But you got to do some work
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: for it. I'm not just going to give that to
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: you for free. I mean we kind of did, but no,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: because I were criticizing it, still saying this is what
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: you could have done, you didn't do it.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Right, right, right, right, here's how you resolve that problem.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, it does. It's I think it's just
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: a manifestation of the timeline sink, right. I think that
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: that's that's really what's going on, is that like this
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: this whole parent ran Timeline DCNC where he ended up
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: sort of sketching out what was going to happen to
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: paren but then like not having details written in and
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: had to publish a book before he really had an
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: idea of what he was going to do with with
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Parents Timeline in parallel.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that that's the simplest explanation is
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: that this is one of the things that didn't manage
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: to get smoothed out in that issue, which, oh, well.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: That happens Timeline DCINC. I just I don't know. I
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: hate I hate relieving or forgiving media ore work in
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: a in a masterpiece that is the Wheel of Time,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: that is so good about timelines and so good about
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: like making sure that things things synced up. It's just
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: it's frustrating when you have a new author takeover and
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: he just he's doing a good job, but he doesn't
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: care about the things that Robert Jordan cared about. And
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: so it's sometimes I get frustrated because it's just like, Ugh,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Jordan had the timeline so well synced up. He could
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: have the moon in the sky and we could tell
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: the time by like how accurate the moon was, because
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: you would give it different phases based on what it was.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: He clearly knew what day everything was happening on almost
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: every scene.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not forgiving I'm not forgiving this. I'm accepting
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: that it's what happened, but I'm not forgiving it, right,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: excuse me. Right, but it's inevitable we're going to find
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: some of these flaws with what we've seen already. It's like, well,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: that's it's going to happen.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: It's like food safety standards. You get so many dead
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: rats per drain, you know, like it's a non zero number.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately unfortunately.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, when somebody takes over. Humans are infallible, except,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: of course, Robert Jordan fallible, infallible, fallible, m Jordan.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Jordan's infallible. Humans are fallible, right.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: But Jordan was you know, O gear or something. I
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, Jordan definitely is not a normal, normal person
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: like the rest of us, Like the rest of us.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: That's very normal people.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well, at least we know he was horny.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: That that we can definitely attribute to being a fairly
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: normal Robert Jordan.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: That we can all relate. We can all relate. Rober
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Jordan did have that one very human attribute, very horny.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Do you want to start taking this in the alphabetical order?
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, So basically, Berylaine is beginning her campaign to
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: get together with Goalade. Do you think we should send
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: an emissary over there? The leader seems pretty interesting. I mean,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I feel like we should talk to them. Maybe I
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: could talk. I mean, I'm a queen, right I could Yeah, yeah,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I could totally be helpful. M mmm. Like she's beginning
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: a campaign that will last for a while at this point, I.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Mean yeah, I mean, and it will end up successfully, right, right,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: she ends.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: Up and she will win that campaign because it's a
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: it's a good solution rights as Fay says, Like, I
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: suggested that she go do that, and I didn't think
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: it would be a white leader of the white cloaks.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, fine, sidebar. What the hell's a finger root tree?
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming a mangrove type thing, except this is not
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: next to the ocean. And I don't know about freshwater mangroves,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: but that was my thought, was a freshwater mangrove because
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: those have very fingery roots.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: You know, I'll buy what you're selling.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, peaches are poison in this world, so why
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: not freshwater mangroves, right, sure? Why not?
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Why not?
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: We've got to mention about the size and flow of
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: the population in the camp. We've got some people who
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: are leaving on foot. Despite the gateway issue, They're still
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: willing to take their chances. And even so, they have
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: twenty five thousand refugees preparing to be infantry.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and about ten thousand they sent through gateways before
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: the dome went up, Right, So they got rid of
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: all the people who didn't want to fight, all the
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: people who were like all the wounded people, all the elderly,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: all the kids. Right, those people are.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: All gone, most of them anyway, most of.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Them are gone. And what they're left with is a
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: force who have found a talent for fighting right before
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: the last battle, which is like, well, I mean, if
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: you know at that point like you're going to be
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: in the last battle, it's like I better learn as
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: quickly as possible. I guarantee these people are dedicated to
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: being like, well, if I'm going to survive.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Right, And even the ones that wanted to leave, if
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: they don't get the chance to leave, they're probably gonna
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: turns out they were kind of able bodied and kind
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: of willing to be pushed over, right, Like if you're
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: triaging out the least fightable people first. Yeah, even the
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: ones that still want to leave intellectually are going to
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: be able to be conscripted when shit hits the fan.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Let me get to this annoying part where Fayl says
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that it bothers paren when people think he did something
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: wrong as long as the white cloaks and Sissy's a
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: murderer whose name is not clear, and like, who cares
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: what the stupid white bar I know, right, these are
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: not people. These are avowed hate group lynched people like
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: these are not people whose opinion you need to care about.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: It's like when if the KKK was like you're a murderer,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, yeah, I don't care if you think that, Like.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Exactly, It's like some people you are not meant to
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: appeal to.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, I guess the only issue is that, like, you know,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: some of those that on forces of the same that
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: burn crosses.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it matters legally if they're going to
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: be going after you with the force of law or not.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I mean it matters in that sense, but it is
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I feels like, well, he wants
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: people to think good of him, like the white Cloaks
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: have given up being qualified as people at this point, and.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Their their opinion of him will never be rational, right,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Like even Gawd's like, well, he's a dark friend because
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: he has golden eyes and that's enough to condemn him exactly,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: you know, and then has to like be convinced that
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: that's not the truth.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: And it's like, dude, yeah, I'm like, I don't care
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: for your morality at all, at all, at all. I
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: just I don't subscribe to your entire cosmology.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I think that's why we've all everyone rolls their eyes
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: at this sort of trial. This is just like what
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: it's really just a moment parents using it both to
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: stall and as an up chance to persuade Galid to
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: his side. He's not using it, Like, I just don't
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: feel like he would not saying he wouldn't accept the punishment,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: but it's just it's such a dumb thing that he
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: would accept punishment for the White Cloaks. Just such a
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: dumb thing. And I think he says it earlier when
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: he's like, I would never let them actually take.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Me, right, But then he does this whole like loop
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: de loop thing of like I will submit to whatever
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: you say after the last battle, and then Galade gets
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: to do the switcheroo where it's like, well, I order
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: you to pay a very reasonable fee to the families
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: of the people you killed, but that's.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: It, and fighting the Lifesauce battle to your you know, right, and.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: It's like okay, great, cool, so you get to both
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: walk away with your highs intact, but like, yeah, the
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: part we're giving moral high ground to the White Cloaks
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: that they have absolutely already surrendered like so long ago.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Right right. I also don't really like this part of
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Fayla where she's like comparing. She's like, well, I think
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: my husband's hot, but he's a different kind of hot,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, fuck you, Like I don't know.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: The stained glass cabinet comparison bothered me a little bit.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't like it, Like I get I really preferred
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: rands line of like, how can you compare two sunrises?
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I thought that was a much better way to say
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: everyone has their own beauty than like, well, this one's
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: meant to be looked at and this one's practical. And
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know. That feels a little body.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: She may still I don't know. Yeah, I'm all for
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: objectifying people for being pretty, and I'm all for everyone
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: being hot, but this comparison did sort of land a
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: little flat.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Same and I understand the comparison he was going to,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: but it again, it's just like I feels just too
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: much into parent for this to even be for her
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: to be putting gollat on that kind of pedestal right.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I don't know. I think
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of different kinds of attractiveness. I just
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: feel like pretty versus practical was not the comparison I
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: would go for. I would have gone for something more
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: like like a really like fancy, delicate, like caught like
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: a tower turret, versus like just a really well built
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: like log cabin with like kick ass windows and like
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: an awesome replace still luxurious, still very very nice. Not
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: oh it's practical instead, and I prefer like that's that's
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: like the health nut bullshit. Well, I don't eat chocolate,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I eat carab right, like I don't need pretty things,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I just need practical things. Like No, I feel like
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: a lot is like a very delicate kind of beauty,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: whereas parent is a very sturdy kind of beauty. They're
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: both beautiful. One of them is much better to be
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: in during like a serious windstorm, though, for sure. But
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. The cabinet felt a little
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: downgrady to parent, Like parent's more than a cabinet.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this this feels more like a comparison that Beryline
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: should have made in her head, not one that foul
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: in her head. That's how I feel about this one, right, Like, yes.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: It's it's a fine comparison, not from Fayel.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly exactly. That's my objection is not the comparison.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: My objection is this is what Fayelle's saying.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: No, yeah, yeah, yeah totally. If Berylin had said it, it
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: would have been like, well that is the way you
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: look at the world, Berlin, And yeah, Fuji like bearded
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: blacksmith versus like model prints like, yeah, those are very
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: It's just it's just different.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: It's just I mean, at least she could have compared
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: them to like Gimly and legal less right, I think
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: that would have been.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Well, now we're contaminating ips so.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: And then I also fucking hate the whole like Morgaze
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: didn't tell us who she really is. I feel betrayed.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I like that she's honest about that. Actually,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: her issue, her real issue, is that Morgaze is going
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: to presume to judge Paris yes, and that she's like, Okay,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: maybe I'm being a little irrational because of the whole
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: husband thing, and I'm like, thank you.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: That is that is You're right. She does sort of
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: make up for that, but I just find it annoying
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: that yeah.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean and Aleandra has no such excuse. Leandra
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: is just like, well, I feel deceived by her, and
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, you met the real her when
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: you were trying to get out that burned out basement.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: You know, that was as real of a version of
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: her as anyone's ever seen.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: And just because she wasn't queen anymore, it doesn't mean
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: that she like doesn't she's not Queen anymore, right, And
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: it doesn't she doesn't. You don't deserve to know about
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: her past, right.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: She was not doing active queen subterfuge stuff. She was
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: not like literally incognito as the queenating you as a
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: common fool.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: Like.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: She was just surviving like everyone else.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Exact exactly exactly. And the knowledge that she used to
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: be queen more gazed in no way helps her survive.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think it's a worthy conversation
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: for them to have on page. It would be weird
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: if they just like brushed by it like it never happened.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Like having messy emotional reactions to that is something that's
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: worth working out. But yeah, it is funny that Beryline's
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: the one who's most like y'all are being really petty
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: about this. Yeah, Berylaine, of all people, is the one
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: who has the most grounded perspective.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: She is practical in certain ways. Right. That's the one
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: thing that I've always respected about Berlaine is, Yes, she's
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: got that sexy trope going on, but she's very smart
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: about the way she uses it. It's not just the
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: one thing that she has to throw at everybody.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and also she really understands doing what you have
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: to do to survive. Like, if there's any ruler who
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: understands making very complicated compromises, it's the first of mayn.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: She her only blind spot is that she doesn't understand simplicity.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: She thinks everybody's plotting really complicated plots, and yeah, that's
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: not always true. And it's the same thing with the Kyrie,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: and AND's had that problem with Rand. Marilane's got the
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: problem with paren which is, Wow, he's doing all these
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: really simple, obvious moves. He must have a very complicated motive.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Right right. Whereas you know, Margaze say what she will
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: about what she was doing, but she was not simple, right,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: What she was doing was complicated. Yes, she was doing
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: does make sense to a crafty, politically minded person. It's
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: easy to see what she was thinking.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: So during this conversation, the bubble of evil hits.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is a pretty mid bubble of evil.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I would say it's cool, and that it weaponizes the
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: weapons We've seen that happen a couple of times before.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I do like the idea that weapons of war are
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: particularly prone to the dark ones touch, because violence is
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: an evil that erodes at the dark ones prison. Like
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: that makes sense to me as a recurring theme.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because then we've seen what was a parent's axe
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: came alive, right, that was the whole thing we've seen before.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: And he had to like put the axe through the
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: door and that nearly killed the person on the other
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: side because they were banging on the door and protecting
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: fi Yeel and all that kind of stuff. And so
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, yeah, this what if it happened to
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: everybody all at once?
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, we're scaling up, right. It's not just the
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Taverance personal weapon, it's every single weapon in the entire
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: space near the Taveran.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: And I really like the way they fight them when
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: they figure out that, oh, if you put them in
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: the dirt, they go inactive. And then the conclusion, what
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: if you throw a dirt at it? Right? I think
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: that's very clever for fo Yield to have come up
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: with and like as a solution to the bubble of evil.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm wondering if you can, like off the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: top of your head, think of some good like metaphysical
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: reason for why the dirt is what ends the evil animation.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: It's grounding out right, I think of it like electricity.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: That was how I was thinking of it too. I
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: was wondering if we would have different thoughts or not.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: The only issue with that is when you're throwing it
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: in the air, then there's no actual connection to the ground,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: and so it like wouldn't actually ground out.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Well it's not literally electricity, it is magic, so yeah,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: it is magic, right yeah, yeah, yeah, So then the
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: metaphysics only works so far in terms of like, but
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the idea that you were grounding the magic and that
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: or the evil out of the viam and it be
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: goes into the ground and seeps away kind of appeals
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: to me like life blanded fools saying the dragon is
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: one with the land, like putting it to the land,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: turn to the the dragon can take care of this. Okay, yeah, no,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I okay, yeah. That was basically my thought as well,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: was as something about grounding connecting to the earth, like
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: the planet is solid in a way that the Dark
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: One is not.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and in a way that the Dark One is
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: sort of he's corrupting the sky down first, in a
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: lot of words, its climate because he's been able to
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: control the weather first, and then sort of as that
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: miasma goes down into the ground. He's starting to be
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: able to corrupt crops and food stuffs and products and
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: stuff like that.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: And then in the next book we see the metal
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: melting Bubble of Evil where the only thing that still
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: works is stone, and it's like, okay, even refined earth
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: materials aren't safe anywhere. Now you have to just work
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: with the raw materials of the earth that no human
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: intention has ever touched. Oh no, that's good. That's good.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: That has a cosmological spiral to it.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: That is nice, And I think it agrees with the
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: clouds in the World of Dreams and the storm that's
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: tearing it apart totally.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: No, I like that. And also we get in this
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: bubble of evil a lot of good teamwork, right. We
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: get Barreling and Fayeel working together. We get Fayel figuring
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: stuff out that then translates to the AEEL. There's a
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: lot of the camp quickly moving information around, the technology
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: of throwing dirt at the weapons spreads quickly. But also
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: we get you know, Fayel and Beryline having a little
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: bit of a trauma bond, right, They actually go through
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: something serious and real and scary, and it actually erodes
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: some of the tension between them.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. He got a wound, rub some dirt in it.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: It's kind of neighbor throw dirt at him, that's funny. Yeah, No,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, dirt. We live in a too clean world.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: You know, your your microbiome is lacking dirt.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's what I always wonder about that. I mean,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I know. The one thing that that I learned recently
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: is just how common parasites used to be in people
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: and how much. Yeah, systems are kind of trained to
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: be constantly fighting parasites in your system, and without the
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: presence of parasites, it's possible a lot of the autoimmune
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: disorders and a lot of the like the allergies that
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: have sprung up is an overactive immune system that lacks
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: a foe like a parasite to fight against, and so
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: then it just makes up shit to fight. Well.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I hate that hypothesis.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Because because the human condition for so long has been
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: you have parasites, and now we have drugs that stop that.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: And I am not going back to being riddled with parasites, no,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: thank you.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: But maybe we can make the immune system less crazy. Right,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: there's sort of this idea that maybe maybe we could
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: do something that way or give it something else to
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: fight if that's the problem. Yeah, it's like.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Let's give you a fake parasite so your immune system
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: will stop chewing on you.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, on d right, there's there's there's this idea that like,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: you know, we leave live in a world is just
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: too damn clean, and our bodies are are designed to
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: live in a much dirtier world where we're infected with
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: all sorts of things, and we die a lot younger.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Right, Well, yes, I say, also a lot of people
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: with autoimmune disorders don't get to live into their adulthood
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: in that pre germ theory parasite riddled world. They die
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: much much younger.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Right right, right, right, But they don't have heologies.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: No, because they're deady dead. But no, that's an interesting
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: angle of attack on the Why are immune systems as
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: much hindrance as help sometimes and.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Why can they just go over zealous and attack your body?
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: And it's because, like parasites have all these mechanisms to
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: remain hidden in your system, and so your body sometimes
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: will overreact at minor stimulus thinking it's parasite.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Fascinating because clearly parasites are bad. It's in the name.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: They're bad for you. You're not supposed to have things
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: sapping away at your vital life force. But there is
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: such a thing as going too far, at least in terms,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: because I mean also, like our bodies are not designed
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: to operate under into an optimal state, right, Like we're
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: just cobbled together systems that haven't killed us yet, so
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: like sloppy.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: And we just survive long enough to reproduce. That's the
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: whole point.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, this is why cancer is
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: becoming more and more prevalent, because we're getting rid of
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: all the things that kill you before cancer. Right, Eventually,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: cancer sall that's left. I mean, there's lots of reasons
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: why there's more cancer, but a big part of it
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: is we're just reducing a lot of the other things
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: that have killed people.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: People are living longer, and if you live long enough
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: eventually and.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Are surviving, wilder things right right, Like so many things
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: that would have killed people are not just just a
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: flesh wound rather than a death sentence.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: And so yeah, complicated, no, And if you look at history,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: just how many people were killed by big cats and snakes,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have personally never had to seriously avoid a
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: large cat or a snake in my entire life.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Small cats, on the other hand, have fucked me up
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: pretty good.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Well, yes, there's that, And I do make choices too
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of way to being a snack for a big cat.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: That is a thing I think about when I go
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: into the woods. I've just never actually seen a big
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: cat in all of that.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: No, you wouldn't see it.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I have seen some videos from people being stalked by cats,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: which are upsetting.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: So yeah, an end of the bubble of evil? Right,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: spread the word take down the bubble of evil. They survive.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: We'll get a recap later on in the chapter as
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: to what happens, but we pov switch to more Gaze
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: and Gallaude in his tent.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, having a much needed heart to heart discussion about
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: the situation without an audience.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Where they don't appear to be affected by the bubble
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: of evil.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the bubble of evil seems to be very localized
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: to parents camp because they're in the White Cloak camp.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: This conversation is happening to three miles down the road,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: And we find out via Tam that it's not happening
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: in any of the surrounding villages either.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the radius for this stuff is much smaller than
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: the dome of transportation fuckery. So basic. Margueze is saying,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: it's not your fault that I got screwed over by
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the White Cloaks. It's like, okay for you to not
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: feel guilty about that, which got replies, well, I can
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: feel guilty about misaccusing Valda before I killed him, although
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I don't feel guilty about killing him. He still needed killed.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: He still raped her, right, It's basically what they're saying. Yeah, right,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: It's like, yes, you were still alive and I killed
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: him for raping and killing you, but he still raped you,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: so worth worthy death. I'm not gonna I will have
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: to announce that, yes, he didn't kill you, because you're
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: obviously still alive. And if I base my ownership or
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: commander command post in the White Cloaks on this idea
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: that I killed him for killing you and you're still alive,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: well that's now I have a flaw in my power structure.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: But after talking to Morgaze, he's able to figure out
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: that there was a legitimate reason for killing him and
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: so his power base is not unstable. He just has
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: to put out a statement.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Right right, which no one ever cares about, but whatever,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And we get a good insight from her, which is
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: some of the Sanderson's better cliche, but it works for
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: me writing she should have realized he'd be attracted to
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the white cloaks for their vision of a world that
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: was black and white. Could she have prepared him better,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: shown him that the world was not black and white,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: It wasn't even gray. It was full of colors that
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: sometimes didn't fit into any spectrum of morality. I freaking
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: love that line. It feels so cliche and yet so true,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Well, And one of the things that I really wish
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: that we'd addressed is like, why why didn't she like
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: it feels like that was part of her upbringing of
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: those kids, you know, was Gallad excluded for that? Because
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I feel like Elaine talks about this all the time,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: you know, and so like what was he missing? What
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: did she get? Is it just because Elaine was the
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: next daughter heir and so Morgay spent more time with
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: her teaching her about these lessons.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's what it is. Because he wasn't
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: even going to be first Prince of the Sword, right.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: She tried to give him as much attention, but you
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: just can't when he's the step son who's not going
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: to have have an official position in the structure. Like
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: as much as she wanted to love him as a
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: mother as a queen, she did kind of end up
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: focusing on the other two more, I think, right, But
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I just love the It's not black, gray and white.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: It's all kinds of colors that are hard to classify
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: and don't fit linearly like you obviously, the autism spectrum
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: great example, but also just every other binary that I
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: refuse to accept because binaries are dumb. I just I
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: like it. Spectrums of things that don't fit onto a
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: moral scale is just yes, we need more people in
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: the Wheela time universe learning this. You'd think that the
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Queen of England, I mean and Or would have done
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: a better job of like exporting that kind of intellectual
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: thought rather than just the Andorans are prudes. Like the
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Queen has some pretty cool philosophy, but we're gonna focus
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: on having high necklines as our soft power. Like Okay,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know, that's a weird choice to me. But whatever.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: They talk about parent a little bit. You know, Morgae
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: is saying he's a good man gollad saying he has
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: to pay, or saying maybe he shouldn't pay, right, Like,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: isn't that necessarily? Good men can do bad things occasionally,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: and sometimes punishing them is just punishing a good man
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: who made a mistake. Hint, hint, hint hint. We're going
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: to set up a reason, but is basically setting up
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: the glad giving parent a non punishment at the.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: End, right right, a punishment that fits the whole situation,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: not just the objective crime because parent feels bad about it.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: So okay, make amends, like literally give restitution to the widow. Okay,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: cool or not the widow, but you know, the parents.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Whatever. When I sentence you to serve in the lost battle,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: which he was going to do anyway you're going to
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: do anyway, it's like time served, you know.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically basically yeah. So they do all this philosophical
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: back and forth stuff. They talk about Lenny and like
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: would he have tortured and killed Lenny to a point
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: and if he makes an exception for her, then does
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: that make his actions actually still really terrible if you
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: would like accept her from them just because he knows her, Like, yes, hey,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: you're backed into a corner, Dick Waffle.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: And then he sort of says, I do like him
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: going back to the original text and saying, you know,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: the even though he uses the word witches for I
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: said eye, which is completely pejorative and terrible, but he
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: does say, hey, you know, at least our original text
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: doesn't say that all women who use the power are corrupt.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: It just says people who have the power can be corrupted,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: and it's something to look out for, which I mean
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: black aja, right, Like.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, I mean the forsaken right, Like this is
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: a reasonable take given history, in.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: The same way that like money corrupts, right, we see
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of people with money, you know a lot
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: of people in politics who are corrupted. But it doesn't
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: mean we should go around slaughtering those people necessarily.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: And it also doesn't mean that everyone who owns a
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: business of any size is equally corrupt to like the
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: biggest mega corporation people, right, like the people.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Having money healthcare CEOs.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, Yeah, it's like not everyone who
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: has a savings account is equally the problem.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Here, you know, right, not all of us who invested
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: in the stock market are the problem. Right, just because
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: our retirement's tied up with it doesn't mean like we're
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: the stock older owners that are dominating the way the
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: economy is being crushed because like all the people who
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: own retirement stock own like ten percent of the stock market,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: if that right, And it's like the other ninety percent
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: is dominated by people with lots of money.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, money is not the problem. The one
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: power is not the problem. It's the institutions that allow
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: individuals to collect far too much influence with that power
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: or money that are the problem. Which is a good insight.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that the founder of the Children had his
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: head not completely screwed on the wrong way.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: And the think about the one power is you've kind
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: of limited by how much you've got. You've got what
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: you got. You can't like gain more power through corruption.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: And not just anyone can have it. Right in theory,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: any and the individual can accumulate money, can accumulate wealth.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: You cannot manifest the genetic ability to channel the one
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: power by hustling, right, It's just not like the same
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: mechanic does not exist it's like one of the few
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: things even the dark one can't grant, right, you know,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: it's a whole thing, Pence layer, right, Right, And then
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Marguez gives him a story about the one time that
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: she knows she sentenced an innocent man to death on accident,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: the one time she is positive that she made a mistake.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: And let's extrapolate that to all the things that a
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: ruler is responsible for and the complexity of the human
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: condition and the fact that we make mistakes and we
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: always operate from incomplete information, and how do we handle
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: that morally? Which is you know, a good story. It's
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I think it's good to have a ruler say there's
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: no way that I'm infallible, that it's just not possible.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: How are we going to handle that?
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: And should I be executed for executing an innocent man
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: even though I did my best at the time.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Right, It's it's a really good discussion to have, particularly
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: with Gollot, particularly with a white Cloak who is so
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: potentially redeemable.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: And the decision to swing an axe versus setting someone
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: to death is you know, there are different kinds of
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: decisions but similar in a lot of ways.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Right, So your voice is unlikely to leap out of
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: your face and start trying to attack you the way
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: an axe might.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Right, But it's either way, your actions directly are leading
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: to somebody's death, right, right, and you have to take
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: responsibility for that. And occasionally, if you're in the business
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: of doling out deaths justified or otherwise, you're eventually going
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: to make a mistake, right, which is why I don't
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: believe government should have the authority to kill people.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: But that's yeah, capital punishment is not good.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: It can never be undone or you can never be
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: let out early from capital punishment.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: No, no, there's always edge cases to argue about, but yeah,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: broadly speaking, capital punishment is bad for US society.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I remember having a one of my first debates in
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: like middle school where they make you debate political topics
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: in government or whatever, and I was assigned the pro
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: death penalty argument, and I had to come up with
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: arguments pro death penalty, and I remember at the end
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: of it, the only thing I'd come up with was, well,
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: the world's overpopulated. It reduces world population. And I think
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: my teacher I was loo was terrible. But it's like,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: I can't come up with a good decent argument for
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: capital punishment. So that was my argument. I think that
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: was the first time where I went, oh, maybe this
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: isn't a good thing.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's a really good outcome of that exercise
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: in middle school. That's why you should do that.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: This was also Texas, right, so I think everybody else
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: had also like, oh, it punishes criminals and this and that,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: and I was like, hmm.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it reduces resource demands. Yeah, you can say that, which.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Is kind of bullshit because actually trying someone for the
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: death penalty takes so many resources that it's millions of
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: dollars in resources to do the trial and the judge
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: and everything, because they get so many peals.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's a dumb thing for us to have
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: as part of our judicial system. Edge case is nowithstanding
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: like god, So Galada and more Gaze get interrupted by
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: news of the weapons bubble of evil and we need
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: another delay. And Galad is now unsettled enough by Morgaze's
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: philosophical questions that he's like, fine, I will refuse to
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: answer the question, which is effectively saying yes, we can delay.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: I will consider it. Okay, well consider it for a
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: couple of days. While we delay.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, go ahead and consider that for oh seventy
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: two hours, thank you, And then we switch back over
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: to Parin for a little debrief aftermath of what the
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: bubble was like.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Right, You've got days of healing to get to everybody
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: because you have a limited number of channelers, and basically
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: everyone in the camp had to fight a weapon. So
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I'm actually surprised there's so few deaths, Like that's one
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: where you're talking about, like, oh, percent of your army
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: should be dead.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm guessing that maybe a lot of them were
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: working with staffs which would have not reacted the way
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: the edged weapons would have. And then also just people
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: got the memo about dirt real real fast. Probably also
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of people figured out dirt spontaneously at the
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: same time, because of course you would try to stab
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: something into the ground to hold it there.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: And I suppose the door that like parent did, right, Yeah.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, But I imagine a lot of people tried to
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: put their daggers into the ground when they jumped out,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: like Bareland in Figio cannot have been unique in their strategy, right.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, or noticing that once one arrow or dagger goes
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: into the ground, it goes still, and then realizing, oh,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: you can throw a dirt at the other ones.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like a lot of people would have
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: figured that out more or less at the same time.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: But still it does seem.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Like, no, if I feel's unique and smart, no one
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: else could have ever figured that out.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, who am I to diminish women's accomplishments, so sure,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: but yeah, it does seem that they got off very
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: very lightly. For an army in the act of training,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: getting bubble of evil in the middle of the day,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: probably should have had more death. If the Taverian is
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: gonna bring the bubble of evil misfortune, I don't think
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: you should also get to have Tavereran good luck with
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: your athletics roles. At the same time, that feels too complicated.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, there is the you have channelers who can heal, right,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: so the worst of the people, if you can survive
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: for a little while, you can be fully healed up.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Sure. Sure, I do like Gall's comment after a husband
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: years since I've been shot with my own it or
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: so I shot myself with my own arrow.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: That was funny.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I love idell humor.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: That was good. Idell humor. Yeah, I feel like I've
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: been missing a fair amount of the ideal humor lately.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: And that was a little little nugget in there. I
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: like the law. Yeah, we get the bit about how
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: is hammer didn't try and kill him? And he's like,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: I wonder why, And it's like, because it's not a
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: fucking weapon, right, Like, yeah, Like, did.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: You not spend forty five hundred pages telling us about
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: why why are you wondering?
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: You know why, like three chapters ago you figured that out.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we just had a whole revelation that we talked
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: about how it was another time that you really lives
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: that the weapon, the hammer, can be chosen for work
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: or a weapon, and the acts can only be a
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: weapon and that's the difference. And like, oh my god,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: you had a whole revelation about that.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The idea that he's wondering is just like I
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: want to throw this book. Yeah, throw it right out
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the window into the rain.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: There's no progression on the characters. They just have the
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: same problems that they ruminate over and over and over
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: and over again. And and if I want to go
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: into like why I don't like the latest storm like
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: archive books as much as I like the original ones.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: That's a big part of it. His characters cannot progress.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: They have the same problems, they overcome them in a book,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: and then the next book they're right back on the
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: same problem again. And a lot of people are like, well,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: it's so realistic. People have the same problems. They never
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: really accomplish, you know, they never really get out of
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: their own heads. And I'm like, that's not why I'm
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: reading a book. I'm reading a book for character progression.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Also, like lots of people do move on through the
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: problems when they do actual therapy that really needs something
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: like you move on to the next iteration, you move
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: onto the next tear of the spiral. You have a
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: new problem, right, same pattern, new problem, like just literally
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: repeating it. Like that's only for people who don't go
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: through big revelations. If you go a truly transformative revelation,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: the next time that that problem pops up, it will
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: be iterated in a new way.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. And it just doesn't feel like Sanderson can
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: do that with his characters. It feels like his characters
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: get stuck in this mire where they literally just have
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: a singular problem that they go over and over and
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: over and over again and figure it out and then
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: go back right back to it, and that's boring.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Lafeblunded Fool is pointing out that maybe the lack of
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: therapists in these two worlds and who those therapists are
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: might be the problem.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: What you're saying, Grendall being the only therapist in modern
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Wheel of Time era is a problem.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: And although I'm not familiar with storm Light property properly,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: I do know the name Kaladin and that being paired
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: against Grandola. Yeah, that sounds like a problem.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, the word therapist in relation to Calivian
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: is a whole nother fucking problem in those books. That's
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: we I mean, we can discuss this is not the
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: right form to discuss that issue, all right.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: So the last thing in this section is Tam getting
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: whisked off, and that's, as we discussed earlier, incongruous with
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: the dome situation.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right right, I feel like we had that conversation.
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's all I've got in that POV.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: And then we switched to the last POV of the chapter,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: which is a lane which has a lot of good
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: stuff in it, and the teased at the beginning radical edit.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: That makes no goddamn sense.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: The radical edit. So I mean, should we just talk
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: about So this is the chapter where she gets hauled
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: up onto the wall to watch the cannons being fired
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: for the first time. And in the audiobook and in
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: the original version, they literally, because she promises Melpane that
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: she's going to stay in bed, they literally haul her
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: four poster bed up the side of the castle wall
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: and put it on. And to me, that's, you know,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: one of the memiest, funniest, best parts of the Sanderson stuff.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Is like, yeah, it was funny, but yeah, Elaine keeping
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: to her word by having her bed literally hauled up
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: the side of the castle was a funny, interesting, memorable
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: part of this book. And as we're reading through, Rady goes, hey,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: isn't this the section where she got hauled up the wall?
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, and that's not in here.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: In the book, the digital book and the book that
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: a radio is reading. She's put in a litter instead
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: of in her fourth poster bed, and the litter is
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: literally carried up through the halls on shorter posts and they.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Just go up the spiral stairs and it's no big deal.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Rather than setting up a whole wage to winching her
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: up the side, and they took out two or three
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: paragraphs describing her being whole. Paragraphs just gone from this
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: book of her being winched up.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: And we know because we're audiobook files and you can't
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: change the goddamn audiobook.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: And they did, well, they changed the book, but they
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: didn't change the audiobook. So we can hear Kate Redding.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we lead it to it before we came on
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: the call with y'all, like it's.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Literally just like we were like, wait a minute, what
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: this is wrong? So we put on the audiobook and
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: spent what twenty minutes listening to this chapter in that section,
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: and yeah, there's some edits in there. There's some death,
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of edits. Just obviously bed becomes litter
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: in a couple of sections. And then yeah, the whole
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: section where she goes up the spiral staircase is completely
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: different in the two versions.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: So literally in the second paragraph there, at first, the
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: original promise was she had promised to stay in bed,
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: but she had said nothing about staying in her bedroom.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: In the book, it says now she'd given an oath
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: that she would stay off her feet. Yeah, so right
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: out the gate they've changed it. And then we've got
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: in the audiobook it says eight guardsmen are carrying her
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: because it's a four poster bed. In the book that
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: I have now it is four guardsmen. Also, she's not
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: sitting in the center of the bed. She's sitting safely
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: between armrests. And there's a couple of other changes with
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: the litter. It is just every time it's bed, it's
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: turned to litter. Originally she is carried in a four
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: poster bed that takes eight men to carry.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: I also not in this book. This is where they
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: didn't change it. Bergida strode alongside the bed.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: There there, ah ah bed. You're right, you're right. They
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: didn't fucking get that one hot.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: They didn't even get the edit right, because that should
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: have been leader, Yeah, litter, litter, leader, leader of a lane?
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Can I get a leader of a lane? Do we
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: even serve a leader of a lane?
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: We get a land to be a leader?
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: And then so yeah, they get to this wall tower
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: turret and then hit a snack as they realize that
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: the poles on the litter are too long. Luckily there's
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: an alternative and they go zoopa doop a doup, And
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: there's literally two hilarious, maybe even three hilarious paragraphs about
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: how she insists on how they're gonna have to winch
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: her up the side of the outer wall while like
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: as though she was a large block that was being
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: brought up for some of the siege defenses, like they
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: have the mechanism to do the winching, and she's, you know,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: minsafe in terms of the engineering there. She knows that
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: rope isn't gonna break, and so there's this whole hilarious
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: scene where she insists that they treat her like a boulder,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: and there's people gathered on the street below and they're
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: pointing and laughing, and she realizes at one point how
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: incredibly high up she is and how intense it is.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: And also there's a section where she has to get
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: lowered down again. They just it's so funny. It's so Elane,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: it's so Sanderson, and it's just gone, gone, yeah, why
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: why is it? God, it's so funny. What is the
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: point of removing it?
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: It's like Elaine in the bath lane in the bed.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: That's the sort of it builds her character to be
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: this like sort of loungey queenie character, and to just
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: put her in a litter is practical. That's what they
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: would actually do if she hadn't sworn the oath.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she literally swore an oath to stay in bed,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: and they changed the goddamn oath. They changed the oath,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: embarrassing for everyone involved. I don't understand why. I completely
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: agree with Boujie. Elaine was robbed, And yeah, this is
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: entirely the result of later editions. So yeah, if you're
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: reading a later edition printing and you're wondering if you're
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: going crazy, you're not, go listen to the audiobook or
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: just trust us that we have listened to the audiobook
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: as of the day we made this recording, and that
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: is absolutely in the original audiobook, and if you find
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: an original printing of the book, you will see that.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: It's I don't understand why they felt they need to
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: do this out. It's really disappointing.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: I'm curious. So I'm back in to make a stand.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Chapter twenty four where she makes the promise and she
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: says in this book, Melpane, you aren't to be on
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: your feet for one week, and then here it says
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: bed rest for a week, but she only thinks that.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I'm curious if the if the audiobook is the same,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: m h, if they actually would have bothered to make
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: the edits going back all the way that distance.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Let's see if you can find the actual promise. I
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: don't think she ever promises. She just gets browbeaten. She
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: keeps saying but but but in Melphane's like no, you're staying,
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: and then Matt comes in, so she never actually promises anything.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so a lot of incongruities in the original. Well,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: I guess know you're looking at your new book, your digital.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at them. So it's not like
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: I don't think they'd have to go back and make
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: edits to that necessarily. But yeah, for those of you
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: who listen to the audio books, like, you're never not
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: going to have you're never not going to read the
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: version where she doesn't get hoisted up right.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, those files are not going to get changed
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: or re edited. It's not going to happen. Those are
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: the way they are forever and always.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: Which is why I kind of like having those and
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: in the regular book, because we find so many ingruities
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: that way.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I have you know, just recent paperbacks because
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I wanted to have a copy to like markup and stuff.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, I bought the digital book, so
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: I think that gets updated. You know, they can make
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: changes and just push those without ever notifying you.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if Rosamund Pike were to do the entire series,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: undoubtedly that would be with the new text. But I
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: don't think that's going to happen.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: I think she's done with it. I think she's moving
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: on from Wheel of Time entirely. I don't see her
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: narrating any more of the audiobooks. Yeah, I mean, I'm
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: more than happy to be proven wrong, but I we
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: might get one more out of her if she was
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: in the process of making it or something, but I
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: doubt it.
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, in that alternate timeline, I guess
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: that would be with the new text. But even then
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: you would know it was not Michael and Kate. The
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Kate reading version of this chapter will always be the correct, original,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: funny version.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Apparently, recently, Pike said she does plan.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: To Oh okay, well, well get me wrong.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: There you go. So we are now on top of
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: the wall, ready for Eludra's demonstration of her second this
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: isn't really the test. She had the first test, and
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: now she's going to demonstrate that test again for the investor.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: The first public. You always test in private, and you
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: always hope that you don't, you know, the first demonstration
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: of the iPhone in public. Everyone talks about how that
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: was just like smoke and mirrors, because like, if he'd
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: done anything in any other order that the software was
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: so buggy that would have crashed immediately. This idea that like, yeah,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: we got it done in private and we're going to
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: show you something. But this is a little different where
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, yeah, this is working and we just
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: need to make more of them.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Right right, So yeah, now it's time to show the investor,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: both Elaine and Matt what it is that they are manifesting.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: And so she's got you know, the dress seeing dummies
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: out on the hill, and she's got a dummy cannon
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: on the wall whis the lane, and then the live
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: one is one tower over. Matt is on that one,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: because of course he is. He wants to be on
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: the live tower.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the one's actually firing.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: Which given that he doesn't seem to appreciate how loud
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: the thing is going to be. I'm going to assume
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: his hearing is forever worse after this because he didn't
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: realize to plug his ears the first time.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: My only thing is, like with isid I healing. If
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: he ever got I feel like I would restore healing.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: But of course Matt's never going to get healed if
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: he can avoid it.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: He does get healed eventually because he can't avoid it
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: at some point somewhere along the way, at some point,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I think Moraine gives him a wash of healing after
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: they get out of the tower because his eye is
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: all you know, that's crusty and stuff, So presumably his
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: hearing is bad between here and then.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Well, that's also a thing that like repeated exposure over
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: time destories your hearing.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: One bang, it's it's a big bang, and he can.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Cause hearing loss. Don't get me wrong, Like I'm not gonna,
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: you know, say that one big bang can't. But it's
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: the repeated exposure that causes most people in the military
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: to lose hearing in the ear that's like closest to
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: the gun or whatever.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, the human ear is very resilient.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: But I'm just saying he is very close to a
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: proper cannon with no appreciation for how loud it's going
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: to be. So.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Side question about Eludra, why does she have her hair
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: out of her braids today?
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: I was hoping you had an answer to that because
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: I also noted it and was like, we've never seen
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: her without braids, never once, and it's a very very
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: distinctly terror Boner's.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Style, and today's a very important day to her.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: And she's very much not being a Terra Bonner in
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: this moment.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: M M.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: I think it has something to do with her kind
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: of reinventing herself and me kind of how Agwain, you know,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: left her two rivers braids behind or braid behind, like
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: it kind of feels like that, except that Alludra has
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: been just placed and when she was an illuminator first
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: of all, like being a Terrra Boner is not really
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: her primary identity. She was an illuminator and now she
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: is the only person left in the guild. But maybe
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: this represents like a really big change for the Guild
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: for them to be making a military engagement with a ruler.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe, But the braids to me were never guild related.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: They were always terribon Er yeah.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't know why life planted full well,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: maybe Matt had her tearing her hair out that she.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Had to put it down so she could tear at it, yeah,
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: instead of pulling on a whole braid because that wouldn't work. Maybe.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I couldn't think of anything. It's clearly something to
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: do with how she feels about this test and the
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: transition in her career. But I can't parse it beyond that.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: Same same because the braids don't really we don't really
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: know what the braids mean to terror boners. There's no like, oh,
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: it's just a style that was common in terrbone tear bond,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: you know, we don't know that it was.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's as much as I've ever concluded. It's
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: just it's a regional style.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Unlike with the knives and the hilt that have meaning
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: to them in Abu Dhar and stuff like that, right,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: there's no meaning that. It's not like, oh, you get
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: a braid for every man you kill, or you know,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: right right right, yeah, yeah. You braid your hair until
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: you've accomplished your life goal, or you braid your hair
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: until you've accomplished the method of revenge against the shan Chan.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: There's nothing like that, right right, Yeah, I don't know.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know, or maybe you know, that's a good point,
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: that maybe the braids kept the hair out of her
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: way while she's working with fireworks and explosives, and now
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: that she's not really necessarily working with them, she takes
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: them out. But that doesn't make sense.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: I feel like any amount of being an engineer means
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: your hair should be contained exactly, yeah, if not just short.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: The braid's always made sense for a Luda for that reason,
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: but right.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. I don't know if her hair tech sure's
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: the kind that needs protective braids in general, but certainly
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: being an engineer, her hair needs protective like hiding from
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: all the boomy, exploding things that she's around.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: And you us don't want hair getting in your chemical reactions.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: You know, No, no, you don't want to getting caught
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: in flywheels. You don't want it contaminating samples. There's so
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: many things you don't want your hair doing.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: I know I constantly have to fight that my hair
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: gets everywhere, my long flowing locks of non existent are Yeah.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: I was thinking, like, you're really experienced on the hazards
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: of hair and engineering workplace.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: The funny thing is, I am though, because we I
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: deal with you know, vacuum chambers on a regular basis. Right,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: all the chambers that I'm opening and closing are under
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: you know, crazy high vacuum. And one of our biggest
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: problems is little hairs that get across the seal and
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: when you could close it down, that provides a pathway
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: across the seal for air to get in. And that's
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: enough of even if it's just a couple of atoms,
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: that's enough where it's like a real problem for our processes.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: And so we're in you know suit to keep that
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: all from getting out. But like my head is not
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: the only place that I have hair, and like little
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: arm hairs and little you know, we get these tiny
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: little filament hairs that are microscopic. You barely even realize
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: they're on your body, but they can still be a problem.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: And so we have to clean and inspect everything before
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: we put it back together because we're humans and we
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: have hair.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I believe it. Literally, if you pay enough attention,
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: there's hair.
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: Everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, And it's why we wear these clean,
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: clean room suits because they supposedly contain all that, and
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: they contain most of it, but.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Right right to say nothing of the pet hair that
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: your regular clothes.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I mean you can see it on
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: me right now, you know. I miss I miss having
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: Timber because his hair was all black and I have
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: all dark clothes. Harvey's a tan dog and his hair
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: shows up on everything.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I was visiting my inlawses dog yesterday for
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: a little dog sit and he is a golden Retriever
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: with hairs the length of my arm. I swear to god,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: it's everything covered in long, white gold hair.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Fortunately Harvey had when he got him, he still had
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: his puppy hair. He had like this really golden, very
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: light uniform gold color hair. It's tan, very tan, I
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: should say. And then the first winter we had him
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: started and he started shedding and shedding like a maniac.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: And I took out and I could tell that because
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: he hasn't regrown the coat. It's been another year and
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: he never regrew it. But I basically brushed out his
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: entire puppy coat, and underneath it he had a much
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: I don't say much thicker, but a thicker more golden
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: ee with black highlights fur as opposed to just a
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: white tan all over, and so he gained like patterns
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: and stripes that he didn't have before. But that pulling
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: all that hair out, it was getting every that was
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: like a couple of months of just like absolutely just
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: covered head to toe in blonde, blonde puppy fur.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, light blended. For We'll put an amazing idea
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: in chat. Maybe Aludra met someone new who took her
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: glasses off and like you know, shook out her hair.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: She oh my gosh, she has bat iguana on her overalls.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe this is our one sign that Aludra
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: is having a love life separate from the plot. Maybe
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: that's what it's about.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Or maybe now maybe that Matt is with Tuon, she
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: can let her hair down because before she was like
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: not trying not to attract him, and now that Matt's taken,
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: she can like relax a little bit because he was
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: such a horn dog around her.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: I know, I don't think that Matt is truly the
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: She had her hair and brains before she ever met him.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: Well, they did make out quite a bit.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just saying.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Ludra changes nothing for Matt, Yeah, okay, fine.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: Burgida comments that maybe they should be having this demonstration
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: from a farther distance away, and Alan says, after all
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: I went through to get up here, and I'm like,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: what shipping the oars on your little litter and getting
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: carried up the stairs, Yeah, that was a real big problem.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: Nothing like getting hauled up the outside of the wall
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: crenelations in your four post or bed would have been.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: It's almost like changing those acts and not changing the
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: context around them makes them sound silly.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Why did they take that scene out? I understand changing
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: Land's power rot sword to a regular dagger. I understand
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: changing Tom's harp to elute. I don't understand taking out
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: a lane being hauled up the side of the building.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: I understand not stringing your bows in the rain or
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: keeping them strong, or not keeping the harp tuned all
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: the time, right, that's change they made, right, or I
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: even kept it in tune. No one would keep it
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: in tune. That puts stress on it while you're traveling.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then they just changed it to at least you
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: didn't keep it in tune and it was fine, Like
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: it doesn't change anything. One little word makes it more accurate. Fine,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: they just took out whole paragraphs of physical comedy. Why
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: for what?
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: And I feel like it, like, and there's so many
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: jokes about a lane in the bed, right, a lane
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: having like in the stress exp and she's in bed
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: in the four poster bed right, like, Ah, I'm really
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: upset about this. This is actually a taking a tenant
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: that I consider core to the way she was written
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: by Brandon Sanderson, and actually one of the better characterizations
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: of Elaine, right, this idea that A she sticks to
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: her word, but b she's in a four poster bed.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: She has a four poster bed, and see she would
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: have that hauled up at the expense of a bunch
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: of labor rather than just not witnessing the demo and
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: having it reported to her, right, Like, all those things
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: fit her character so well and are so well written,
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: and this just lessens the impact of that so much.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: It makes her less funny, less well rounded, less. I
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: just yeah, it really it was fun sparkle on the
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Alayine character that's just completely gone. I don't think Maria
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: or Harriet would have taken it out. I think it
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: must have been some boring person with no sense of fun.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: I still want to know why. I still want to
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: know under what possible able explanation someone was like, this
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: is an unacceptable thing to leave in the book. And
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: as I charge you with asking Maria at a coon
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: or someone in the audience, ask Maria at a con about.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: This, because this is something she should have been involved
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: in unless it happened like after her. Because I don't
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: see anything. I don't nothing easily but google google able
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: pops up.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: But okay, well yeah, in April Salmon aside, we will
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: remind you and everyone else to make a stink about this.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: We need to get to the bottom of it. It's
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: some nonsense.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: She's still on the job. I don't. I'm not sure
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: that that the Wheel of Time group is really doing
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: anything anymore. There is a job team.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Jordan exists to help with the fandom interfacing with itself
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: and with Harriet. I don't think Jordan has anything to
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: do with the content creation in that way, but they
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: still exist as like people care about you know, the
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: estate and all the fan people that want to do
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: fandom things. Anyhow, Elene is a little skeptical about what
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: this canon is going to do until she sees it
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: work and then she is immediately converted into being super
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: super excited that she has canons right, Because the thing
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: is that if you don't understand the power of gunpowder,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: then you're not going to understand by throwing a rock
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: while that distance is going to make it difference, like, well,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: it's just a rock, how is it going to do anything?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: But the impact is so much bigger than the rock.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: I have a question, Yes, are they throwing something. They're
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: throwing a sphere, but they light a fuse on that sphere.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Is the sphere also full of gunpowder? So basically my
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: question is are they launching a solid metal ball or
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: they launching some I'm thinkful of gunpowder that can explode
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: when it gets to the destination, because I always thought
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: it was just a solid metal ball being thrown with
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: such force that it causes the explosion. But in the description.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: There's a fuse coming out of the sphere and a
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: fuse on the I didn't.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Notice that a fuse and the cannon and a fuse
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: on the sphere, and they light the fuse on the sphere,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: drop it in and then set off the cannon.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: It has to be exploding ordinance, there's no reason for
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: there to be two fuses if this was just a bullet,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: I never noticed that it's a bomb and not a bullet.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: I always thought it was a bullet. I didn't realize
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: it was actually.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: A bomb and would that work?
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: But that totally makes sense because she's riffing off of
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: night flowers, right, She's not riffing off of slingshots. She's
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: riffing off of night flowers.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Night flowers you launch and then they explode once they're
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: up in the sky. And these dragon eggs you.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: Launch, and that you launch a container and then.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: They explode, and so they're creating shrapnel and everything as well.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because the whole point is you put a small
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: fuse in the thing, and then you have that last
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: long enough that the big fuse can put it up
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: into the sky before it explodes and puts its inwards out.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: That's the whole point of the engineering space she's coming from.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: So of course she's not launching solid balls. Of course
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: she's launching explodeyballs.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Which is weird to me, right, because that's not necessarily
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: the progression of how firearms worked is didn't you start
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: off with just solid cannibals?
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't actually know how the original Chinese transition
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: from fireworks to canons went. I know how European canon
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: technology starts and moves onwards, but I don't know how
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: the Chinese invention process went. Like they may very well
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: have started out with explosive ordinance because they were starting
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: with fireworks. I don't know anything about that progression. But yeah,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: I don't think Europeans figured out explosive cannon balls for
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: a very long time. But that doesn't mean anything about
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: because they didn't start with fireworks, right, Like, the whole
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: progression in Europe is different than in China. I'm sure
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: someone out there knows. There's probably some pretty cool books
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: WICKI articles. Maybe I'll find some to throw in the
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: show notes during the editing process, but I don't currently
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: know anything about that.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: The remaining man touched a small torch to a fuse
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: sticking out of the sphere and rolled it into the tube.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: Then they turned the tube to face directly outwards. Some
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: time goes by a lludril loorder flag. The soldier touched
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: his burning torch to the side of the dragon. The
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: explosive sound that followed was soap.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Powerful, and we know she's got the whole slow match
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: technology thing. We've seen that in other scenes with her.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: So she's got timable fuses.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: Right, and so then a boom sharp, she heated. She
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: heard in the distance what sounded like the echo of explosion.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: She raised her hand to her breast and remembered to
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: draw a breath. So they fire it. A breath passes,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: and then a pocket on the hillside exploded in a
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: massive spray and dust and earth. So they fire it.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: It hits the ground, A second passes, and then it
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: blows up.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Ah insures I had not noticed the timing of that,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: that she has a chance to draw a breath between
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: the launch and the explosion on the grid. I literally
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: just blew right past that.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: And then here again, something capable of smashing an iron
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: sphere into the ground with such force that it blew
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: up in a hole, then perhaps exploded on its own.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: So it's too it's the hole and then the explosion.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: Wow. I just I am not a war brained person.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: I did not notice all of these incredibly important details.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: I'm just like it go boom.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: Anyway, they pointed out multiple times, because I did. I
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: always think of like you fire cannon, you fire cannon, ball,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: it hits something, and it hits with enough force that
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: it kind of creates its own shockwave explosion. Right, it's
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: a big mass thing, right, But no, they're doing that
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: and then the balls are exploding.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: Even with a few seconds of delay, right, depending on
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: you know, how long the match has, how long the
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: arc of the flight is. Right, they're going to explode
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: in the air or in the ground at varying times depending.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: But wow, And it is true that cannons were, i
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: believe canonically in our world invented before small firearms. It's
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: always easier to invent a bigger one before you minaturize it,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: and so the cannon was the big one, and then
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: guns were miniaturized cannons.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that is my understanding as well. It starts
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: out with very big multi person technology and eventually gets
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: taken down to a little pocket gizmo.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: But the invention of explosive ordinance, I think that was
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: long after the invention of both cannons and probably guns.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: But still fireworks are explosive ordinance that predate both those things,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: so right, right, I am very interested to fall down
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: a rabbit hole learning about that on the Asian invention side,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: because I know enough about year, but I don't care,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: but very curious.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: I do, like Alludra's like Brigida's like oh yeah, I
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: know it's inside a firework and laders like don't open
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: those those those could explode in your face, and like, no,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: we know what's going on, right, Like that's just gunpowder.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: But that's the standard line that all illuminators say, is how.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: You It's just that like reversion back to standard illuminator.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: It's just like an instinct for her, which I kind
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: of liked.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: And one thing we brushed over is Lane has made
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: three replicas of the Foxhead medallion even without having the original.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: She's able to duplicate it without having the original.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: Right, She's got a certain plateau of manufacturing figured out.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, picture and chat of the cannons that were
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: used at Constantinople to take its walls down.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: So cool. If anything that doesn't have the bell shape
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: at all. It's just a tube with reinforced.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just the tube, yeah, with like.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Thicker part parts of the circumference, whereas the bell shape
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: is very much I feel like a more modern cannon.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I feel like they're just skipping some steps,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: like Aludra is so good. She's like figured out, oh, yeah,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: I could have these primitive canons, but those are too primitive.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: I can in my head figure out the problems with
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: them and get a more advanced version first time out.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: Well, just like we're inventing steam engines and railroad track
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: technology at the same time, more or less, like we're yeah,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: we have some very very clever engineers in this turning
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: of the wheel. For sure.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: The reloading process takes about two three minutes, and they're
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: going to get it down to two, which still feels
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: like a long time in battle.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, she has it at three currently and she's like,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get it yeah exactly. Elaine says, well,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: that seems really fast, and I'm like, in battle, time
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: is such an important resource. I see her aiming to
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: get this down to a ninety second process if she can,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: But the distance is what makes it quick, right, because
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: since you can fire multiple miles, it's like people have
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: to cover the ground in between, and so you can
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: get multiple shots off in the range that they have
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: to cover.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: Right right, well, and again, yeah, it comes down to scaling, right,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: which is where Elaine goes from slightly skeptical to the
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: resources of and or are at your disposal. Please make
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: as many of these things as you possibly can, as
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: fast as you can, because we need this right now.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Oh more pictures in chat we've got a much more
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: bell shaped cannon mouth, and also pictures of the AMMO
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: being used. That's not explosive, that's just a big rock.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: Very big balls.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: Who's got big balls, They've got big balls.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: And then we have balls of the ball, sweaty balls.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: I love to eat your sweaty balls.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: Very salty.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: They just fit perfectly in my mouth. So I always
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: say to myself that I can't get enough of your
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: sweaty balls. Every year. There's such a rare commodity. I
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: tell my family how much I enjoy ingesting your sweaty balls. Sorry, anyway,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: are you quite finished? Never? It's the best. Oh God,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: it's the God. It's such a good parody and it's
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: so appropriate for podcasters.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So, Elaine says, I want the plans to
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: standard lock and key. Alutra says, I don't care who
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: has them as long as they are not Shawn Chan,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: and Elaine says something that really takes us down the
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: road of like having a international doom state device. Right,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: you don't want to use them on other people. We're
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: just going to use them on the shan Chan and trolics.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: But also we don't want our enemies to have them, right,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: Our enemies won't attack us if we have such an
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: overwhelming weapon. Surely not.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 5: So.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: I know I plucked behind the bastards one hundred thousand
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: times on this podcast, But literally, what they're doing last week,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: this week, and I think next week is the bastards
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: who made the modern doom state device that keeps us
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes from the total end of the world at
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: all times. And they talk about World War one as
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: kind of being the first iteration of that. But really,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: the nuclear arms race situation we find ourselves in now
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: is the result of this thinking. If we have a
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: big enough weapon, a big enough alliance in the case
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: of World War one, if we have a strong enough alliance,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: then no one will fuck with us, And then you know,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: someone fucks with us, and now we have a whole
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: world war blah blah blah. Yeah, if we build a
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: doomsday device, then no one else will will want to
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: provoke us to use the doomsday device that puts us
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: in a position of, well, if someone fucks with us,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: then we're going to pull the pin on the doomsday device.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: And that's mad.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I just I see Elaine taking that very first,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: very logical, very reasonable step. Just ah, no, not the
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: doomsday device. Don't build the torment nexus, Elaine, don't do it.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: She's gonna do it. She's totally gonna do it, because
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: she's a pragmatic Queen of England.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: I mean and or m hm. And we know, like
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: from our world what the history of guns means, right,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: we know automatic weapons, we know how bloody and brutal.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: We know what happens when England gets firearms. Okay, we
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: know what happens.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: And so that's it goes back to the vision of
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: Matt bowling pins and knocking over pins and realizing that
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: every time he knocks over the pins it represents thousands
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: upon thousands of people dying.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: He reaches up and grabs a firework and has a
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: firework in his hand, and men will die as a result,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: and oh no, oh no. And this also gives us
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: one of the quotes from Brigida that's in that fan
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: video that John algen made for us.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, one of my favorite.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the best quotes. The world just changed
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: a lane. This is where that comes from. Brigida's like,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: this is not old. This is not something that has
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: happened before. This is new. New to me as someone
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: who exists in this metaphysical outside the wheel perspective, Like,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: this is new. This changes everything at a really profound level.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: And I love that she says that.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: And that's all foreshadowing for after the book series.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, because as Ntalk's saying here, you know, this
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: is putting the power vice to die in the hand
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: of commoners. This is this is a genie you can't
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: put back in the bottle, even if you defeat the
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: literal devil. The Fourth Age is going to have to
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: contend with the fact that gunpowder technology exists, and these
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: plans exist, and people have seen how effective cannons are,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: and you cannot undo that knowledge in the Fourth Age.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: It's not going to happen.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: Live blinded fools giving us tons of good images of cannons.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: There's a good one that looks very bell like here,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: the fourteenth century shipboard cannon just kind of looks like
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: an extended bell Yeah.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: That's a good one. Not only fired stone shots. According
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: to the accompanied caption, hmmm, oh, we've got some good
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: nerdery in the chat today.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: I think. I think stone you'd have to be careful
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: with because it would shatter.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Depends on the kind of stone. You'd have to be
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: really good at selecting your rocks. You can't just put
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: any old rock in there.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: I like rocks.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is why iron ingots are better. You know,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: iron balls, cannon balls are not They're not usually granite, right,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: they're iron refined.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: And apparently Ludra has refined iron cannon balls with and
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: feels a full of gunpowder. Yeah, maybe shrapnel the outside
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: becomes the shrapnel.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough, fair enough?
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. And then and then you've got the sort
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: of I would call what I can think of the
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: modern cannon or the like the revolutionary cannon, which is
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: this like wooden structure on wheels with something sticking out
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: behind it, and you had to have this very long,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: sort of how shall I say, this pallic looking cannon.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: Right, well, and that's essentially what she invents with the
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: dragon carts, right, very mobile if you have like three
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: men that can rotate it and pull it and reposition it.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: They don't have to pick up and lift it. It's
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: on wheels and has a tongue that can be attached
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: to horses or whatever. And yeah, they're very much more
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: like a long tapered bell like structure where the wide
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: end is that the loading end and the narrow end
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: is at the shooty end.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm being corrected. Those are American Civil War era,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: not Revolutionary era.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Ah, prior to rifle bares. But yeah, that would totally
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: be a fourth age cannon, totally. Yeah, much more modern
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: and elegant compared to the original. How can we make
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: launching tubes for fireworks into a weapon of war? This
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: is much more like what if it was just a
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: weapon of war and was not modified from anything?
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: Well, and aren't they all made out of bronze here
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: right as supposed to iron? So you're gonna have to
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: have bigger cannons, right.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: That was the whole bell founder thing.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, is you have to have big heavy probably you know,
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: these modern cannons that we're looking at here and these
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: photos are made of steel and iron.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: Right, So one does wonder how long it's going to
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: take the metallurgical side of this engineering equation to catch
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: up in the fourth age. What if we didn't use bronze,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: What if we use lighter things? What if we started
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: playing with alloys? Can we bring quendy R into it?
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: Right? Right? Yeah, the Quendyar cannon right, Like then you
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: could fire with as much powder as you wanted and
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, yeah quendy R cannonballs.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah, they wouldn't be very good for being
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: exploding ordinance though.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: No, but like, good luck stopping that, right, Like, what
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: if you're trying to take down a castle wall?
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: Right, well, I mean QUINDI are still going to get
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: stopped by physics. Like it's only going to be able
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: to embed itself so deep into a stone wall.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: Right, but all that momentum has to go into the
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: wall because none of it can go into shattering the ball.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: Oh no, you're right. That would make it a much
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: more effective method of transferring force because it would just
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: be like shrug, all that force goes into the wall.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean, I guess depends I gues specific shatters,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: it all goes into the wall. Anyway, It might not
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: make much of a difference, but still.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: It would definitely make difference for us making the cannons themselves,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: jar cannons, hand cannons. Man chat is really providing us
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: with so many fun images. See, this is what you
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: all miss if you don't come to the live recordings,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: is you don't get early examples of hand cannons.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't have a lot of I mean, steel
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: is definitely around in this stage. It's not like they
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: don't have steel, right, We've seen it. The swords themselves,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: right are steel? Yeah, much less like I feel like
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: we've seen other things used. So you know, if nothing else,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: Parent has a modern forge. Yeah, and this is a
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: place where technology evolves quickly.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. The Last Battle is going to have a
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: lot of engineering momentum leftover after it concludes, where people
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: are going to be completely in the mental headspace of
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: how do we make more weapons of war? Let's fight
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: the shaan Chin. Yeah, and you know, pretty soon they're
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: going to have nukes, That's all I'm saying.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: And you have the real life lessons, right those you
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: you existed, you survived the last battle, you use those weapons,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: and now you're like, well, what did I wish I had? Right?
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: Right? Right? Yeah, totally totally.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: And uh, I guess I wish I had another chapter
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: to go over, but I think we're done with this one.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we managed to squeeze an hour and a half
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: out of all that.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: It's been great. Thank you everyone for showing up for
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: today's recording.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: Really appreciate the live audience.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we are going to record, I believe one more week. Yeah,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: and then we're going to go on break for Christmas
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks. Not Christmas, We're just going
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: to go on holiday break for a couple of weeks.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: But we'll record one more week before going on break,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: but it.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Will be over the Christmas New Year's holiday that we're
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: not going to record, which means you'll probably not get
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: episodes sometime in January. Yeah.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll probably do some rewinds in the feed or
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: do some cross posts from some other podcasts that I make,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: because I apparently make podcasts like it's going out of style.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: The number of people who are like just casually floating
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: podcast ideas at me. I'm just like, some of y'all
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: are going to need to start paying me for this.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: This is not the right forum to discuss that issue,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: because like Calvin invents therapy and one of the other
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: characters who's world hopperds like, oh, you've invented being a therapist,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: and Calen's like, oh, I guess I'm a therapist, even
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: though I don't know what that is. And then it's
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: just like, oh my god, how are you?
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really really dumb where he's going around, I'm
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: a therapist. I don't know what that is, but that's
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: what I am. How can I help you? And it's
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: it's bad. It's really really bad man in a lot
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: of ways. Yeah, I don't like jumping on the bandwagon
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: of hatred for Sanderson's latest book, but I don't like it.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: Look, sometimes the bandwagon has pointed in the direction that aligns.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like Sanderson has hit that point
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: that I've seen a lot of very successful directors and
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: filmmakers do, where they have some sort of success, some
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: sort of breakout. You're a genius. Oh my god, I
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: can't believe you've managed this, and like Shamalan, Oh god.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: There's a thousand other examples. I mean, even even George
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Lucas right like this idea that oh my god, you're
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: a genius. You've created this incredible piece of artwork. When
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, you were there, but it was more
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: of the circumstances and everybody else who worked on it,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: and like or even it was just a single idea
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: that was a flash in the pan, and then there's
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: no one to say no, and the work starts to
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: become very navel gazy in this way that is like, you, really,
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: it's not that you're writing bad work anymore. It just
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: needs to be edited better and you need to be
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: told no occasionally, like Sanderson's latest book needed to be
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: cut down by like two hundred pages.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's rough.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: It's rough. It's rough, and I just I don't know
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: how to solve that problem because you want to give
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: people who are making great artwork room to continue to
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: make their artwork. But at the same time, people who
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: are wildly successful often lose themselves in that success and
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: then they.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: Take up all the oxygen in the room so that
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: way other people can't like come into the space.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: And yes, yeah, and that's something that I am also
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: frustrated with Sanderson, where it does feel like he is
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: dominating the fantasy space right now, and it's like like
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: every time I go on a forum and I'm like, oh,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: I want to read fantasy. What should I get into?
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: And I was like, start with Misborn, And I'm like,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: I just don't think that's a good necessarily starting fantasy
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: spot right, Like, it is accessible in a lot of ways,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: but also, you know, kind of misrepresents a lot about
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: the fantasy genre.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: It represents a lot of things that are not what
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: we want about the fantasy genre. You don't, Yeah, the
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: domination by tall white men who like Christianity and capitalism
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: is it's old.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: It's old, and there's just inherent biases in his projects
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: that like he's obviously trying to overcome, but it doesn't
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: mean that he's not overcoming a bias that is there, and.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: He's overcoming it by gamifying the process, which is not
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: the deep inner work necessary to actually unpack your biases.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: That's just gamifying what critics are saying for better, you know.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: ROI oh my god, side note, right, I tried. I
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: need my gutters cleaned on my house, and I don't
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: have the proper ladder and safety equipment to get up
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: on my roof. I just don't have it, right, So
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: I tried to get a quote for gutter cleaning. I
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: gave my phone number to one website. I have been
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: getting twenty spam calls a day for the last week.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: I am so upset. I am so frustrated that I
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: can't even like get a legitimate quote from a legitimate
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: business without getting bombarded. And they're trying to like replace
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: my gutter, sell me replacement gutters and like upgrades and
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: gutter guards, and I'm like, I just want to quote
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: on someone to come clean my gutters.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: Hey, you gotta just word of mouth that shit. You
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: can't trust the internet anymore.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: And I just I made a mistake. I use Google,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: you know. And and this is this is me being
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: an old millennial thinking that Google was still right like
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: a good way to find services like this, and it's
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: not anymore. Like we're back to the era of like
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: I can't look someone up in the Yellow Pages. I
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: just literally have to ask around. And nobody I know
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: has gotten their gutters cleaned, you know. So I'm like,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know how to find a good, reliable gutter cleaner.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm getting these just constant spam calls where they're
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: like where even when I say hello and try and
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: talk to the person, they're hanging up on me. And
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: like what's the what's the point that sucks? And then
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: I know I got a and I got a call
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: where the voice message was like twenty three minutes long
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: and it was just him sitting with his family at
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: the dinner table, you know, And I'm like, oh my god,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: what how did you? Is from a previous number that
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: had spam called me earlier in the day, and then
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: he must have butt dialed me again later and yeah,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: I'm just it's been such a weird experience. I'm just like,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: I have to go through my phone account how many
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: spam calls I'm getting, because it's incredible. First real downside,
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: I think the owning a house is like how do
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: you get people who can legitimate workers who can come
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: and do the work you want without getting just bombarded
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: with spam?
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I know. It's been a huge boon that
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: my stepdad and one of my good friends are contractors
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: like above board, Like I've been around that stuff my
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: whole life. I know people who know people like that's like,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, you just you just got to find someone
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: in your net because because I know people, I know
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: lots of people who know other and it's like that
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: network exists. But if you don't have that, how do
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: you tap in? That's that's rough. That's rough.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: And I can do a lot of work myself, right,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: That's why it's not that big of a deal for
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: me most of the work, But just getting up on
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: the roof for me is especially because I'm in this
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: town home that shares walls, so you really have to
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: access the roof from the front or the back. And
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: I just you know, it's three stories because it's a
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: basement garage on the first story, and yeah, it's just
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: it's just not you need a specialized ladder to get
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: up there.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, keep pushing it into your and more accurately
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: never social circle, and eventually someone will pop up. Thank
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
• 1:25:44
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• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:25:52
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• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: at Foxendravenmedia dot com.