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Gilmore To Read: Nisha J Tuli · Gilmore To Say: A Gilmore Girls Podcast

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Five, six, seven, eight.
0:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi y'all, welcome or welcome back to Gilmour To Read.
0:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host Haley and I am so glad you're here today.
0:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I should say, are you ready for it, Taylor?
0:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So for reputation style, because if you were listening to this when it airs next week, it's September first, which means that it is fall in our hearts, because it means that Gilmour Girl season is starting, it might not be fall for a couple of weeks.
0:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably still going to be super hot for a couple of weeks, but that means that it is fall here on Gilmour To Read, which means we are about to have a fall explosion of episodes.
0:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Between Gilmour to say episodes and some bonus episodes we have coming up, there's also going to be a plethora of Gilmour to read episodes.
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the perfect time of year for reading.
0:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You can, of course, read all the year round, but there is just something so cozy about reading during cozy season.
0:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?
0:57
[SPEAKER_00]: By, in regards to the episode explosion today's episode, it's of course with Nisha J to Lee who I felt
1:02
[SPEAKER_00]: even more in love with after chatting with her.
1:05
[SPEAKER_00]: This conversation with her was so much fun, but coming up in the next couple of weeks is Ashley Postan, Sarah McLean, and Ashley Jordan, and that is only in September.
1:14
[SPEAKER_00]: We have even more for October.
1:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just so excited about everything coming up on Gamma to say, on Gamma to read.
1:19
[SPEAKER_00]: The authors that I get to talk to, it's going to be so much fun.
1:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also want to mention if you are in or near Michigan and Ann Arbor on September twenty six and September twenty seventh, you can come down to rock paper scissors for Stars Hollow Saturday where Tara and I will be hosting an event on Saturday called coffee coffee coffee where it'll be kind of like a live podcast event going to be lots of fun, but there's other events as well.
1:43
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a birthday bash to celebrate the twenty fifth anniversary of Gilmore Girls on
1:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Friday, there's a Gilmore girl's trivia on Saturday night.
1:49
[SPEAKER_00]: We are so excited for that, but also in the book realm of it, there is a local bookstore in Ann Arbor called Literati who will also be partnering with the events.
1:58
[SPEAKER_00]: You can pop in, find some Gilmore leaning books or maybe some books that worry red in there.
2:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just going to be such a fun time.
2:06
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a link in the show notes if you want to get tickets to it.
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're considering going, I would get your ticket ASAP because it'll sold out way sooner than we expected last year.
2:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And this year is going to be bigger and better than ever, I'm so excited.
2:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But in today's episode, I'm talking to, of course, like I said, Nisha JTooley, author of Not Say For Work, which was June's pick for Reading a Sexy, our Gilmort inspired romance-specific book club.
2:28
[SPEAKER_00]: In Nazi for work, two work rivals find themselves stuck together at a corporate retreat in Hawaii.
2:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my, the horror.
2:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But this tropical romance between Triss and Rave is balanced with Triss, who is navigating career and ambition out as she a woman of color combats the old boys clubways of the engineering world she works in.
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a soul tree sweet and poignant romance.
2:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And even though summer is ending, I still feel like it's a perfect book to read.
2:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we get into the episode, I do want to mention two books that I'm reading because again.
2:58
[SPEAKER_00]: This really is prime time to cozy up with a good book and there are two that I have been really, really loving lately.
3:06
[SPEAKER_00]: One of them is called Wild Reverens by Rebecca Ross.
3:08
[SPEAKER_00]: If you remember back in twenty twenty three, Rebecca Ross' book Divine Rivals was our book club pick and if you liked that, you will adore this one.
3:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It is about a goddess who is a messenger of the realms and the mortal boy whose dreams she appears in every night.
3:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Like just telling you about that gives me chills because I just finished it today and I loved it so much.
3:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It's wild reference by Rebecca Ross.
3:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It comes out on September ninth.
3:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Be sure to get it.
3:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to want to read this.
3:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of those beautiful books where it kind of takes a second to get into it because the world building is so vast.
3:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But once you get to the part where the plot is racing and the pacing is picking up, you feel so much more intensely because you have such a deep understanding of it.
3:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I truly could not put it down.
3:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I read it in about three days.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It was
3:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So good, let me know if you read it.
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: The second one is a little bit more Gilmore girl's leaning.
3:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It is called, if it makes you happy by Julia Levia, it is set in a small town in nineteen ninety seven where Michelle, a guarded particular person, takes over her mother's bed in breakfast, which is next door to single father Cliff, who is the local baker in town.
4:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It is giving every ounce of nineties in a soldier that you would want from a book set in nineteen ninety seven and it's set during that like peak
4:16
[SPEAKER_00]: time that you love watching on Gilmore Girls because it's fall, there's Halloween, there's Thanksgiving, there's Christmas, it's just every ounce of what you would want and it's sat in New England.
4:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And if at any point this fall you want a break from your Gilmore rewatch and want to dive into a romance that feels like that slow burn of a full season of Gilmore Girls.
4:34
[SPEAKER_00]: This one is for you, and this one comes out on September second.
4:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Now a bit about Nisha, Nisha J. Tuli is a USA today, an international best-selling author of glittering fantasy world's steamy rom-coms and kissing scenes full of angst, her book, Trial of the Sun Queen, went on to become a book-talk hit, finding a swaying to the hands of A-list celebrities like Katherine High-Gold, which we talk about in this episode.
4:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Her debut contemporary romance not safe for work, features rivals to lovers trapped together at a corporate retreat, where they find themselves with only one bed and only one pillow to share.
5:04
[SPEAKER_00]: In twenty twenty six, Nisha will shift gears in her first YA dystopian romance, sat in a post-apocalyptic Manhattan, plagued by violent storms and deadly secrets.
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[SPEAKER_00]: When she isn't running a reading, she can be found in the gym or the kitchen to eat, not to cook, or maybe knitting scarves to survive a Canadian winter.
5:21
[SPEAKER_00]: She lives in Manichoba with her husband, their two kids, and they're fluffy some way.
5:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely love talking to Nisha.
5:26
[SPEAKER_00]: She is such a delight.
5:27
[SPEAKER_00]: She's so much fun.
5:28
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about shifting careers when what you decided at seventeen isn't serving you anymore.
5:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Being sane but incredible amount of book she has written recently.
5:37
[SPEAKER_00]: What her comfort shows in media are and how not say for work is her most personal project to date.
5:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And be sure to listen to the end if you want the preview of Nisha's future projects.
5:46
[SPEAKER_00]: She has some amazing books on her schedule for the next few years.
5:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I became incredibly in our titulate when she was explaining it because I truly am so excited for everything she has to come.
5:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But before then, let's talk about everything she has already written.
6:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So without further ado, here is Nisha Jaitoli.
6:07
[SPEAKER_00]: As I told you before, I'm having what I have called a Nisha J. Tully Spring, because I had downloaded, trial of the Sun Queen down to my Kindle, because of speaking of TV shows, because of Katherine Highall.
6:21
[SPEAKER_00]: She recommended it, and like immediately I went to my Kindle downloaded it, because I wanted to keep it there, because I'm like such a mood reader.
6:27
[SPEAKER_00]: What was that like having like her post that video?
6:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you guys fan?
6:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, not really.
6:32
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I never really.
6:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I knew of the show and like the basics and who like the major people were, but yeah, I was like she didn't tag me in it because she said she couldn't find me and but like ten people sent it to me like literally all within twenty minutes of her posting it.
6:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, what?
6:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was just totally a surprise.
6:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she went on to pose two more times.
6:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, yeah, it was crazy.
6:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And I commented on the first video just being like, oh my god.
6:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, oh, I couldn't find your tag.
6:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I got you replied to me.
7:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, just sitting here chatting with Katherine High.
7:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
7:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not here, but she loves them.
7:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't keep joking.
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to get a t-shirt that says I'm Katherine Heigel's favorite author and I'm going to wear it or go.
7:12
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a joke.
7:13
[SPEAKER_00]: We should do it.
7:14
[UNKNOWN]: We need to get you that.
7:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was just funny that like I had downloaded that and then I saw not see for work a neck alley and I immediately downloaded it from that and I was one of those books that I was like, oh, let me start like I needed like a summary book as we were like heading out of winter.
7:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, I'll read a few chapters of this, you know, just dive into it.
7:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was one of those books that, like, it had been a while that, like, the first page hooked me.
7:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was, like, from the very first page, just in it.
7:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And suddenly it was two a.m.
7:42
[SPEAKER_00]: and I was like, but that wasn't the plan.
7:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to look to love that.
7:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I love hearing that.
7:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, like, I finished that within twenty four hours because it was just so good.
7:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was when I was like, okay, we, I remember Katharine, I go recommending a
7:56
[SPEAKER_00]: book of hers, and that's when I fell down and read eight books, like within like three weeks.
8:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot, so you look cute, you know, busy for a while.
8:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I'm saving the rest for my beach trip because I like have to like reward myself after like working all summer, like it has to be like the night like I like neglected so many things that I needed to do in order to read your work because I just
8:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's such a good time.
8:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, good.
8:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I thank you.
8:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But speaking, I'm not seeing for work, congratulations.
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: A USA today best seller.
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so big.
8:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Hard one one.
8:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And much to serve.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: This was a fantastic book.
8:30
[SPEAKER_00]: But as I mentioned, you mostly have like a fantasy back at a log.
8:33
[SPEAKER_00]: This is your debut into contemporary romance.
8:36
[SPEAKER_00]: What made you want to make that shift?
8:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I guess a shift not in genre, but just a sub genre, if you
8:41
[SPEAKER_01]: of genre more than yeah I mean it's still all romance.
8:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like a super conscious thing.
8:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It was partly like technical logistical thing because I had a fantasy book on submission and it wasn't selling and the prevailing wisdom is always like keep writing another book like when publishing isn't moving right another book because if this one dies then it could be the next one.
9:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So partly I wrote it because I was like well I also love rom-coms and
9:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We could then sub it to different editors and different imprints because fantasy and contemporary tend to not be the same That's a true and you more a few years later, but yeah back then it was the case So basically it kind of was sort of a logistical thing more than anything Also, I don't know I just like shifting back and forth like I do better when I have multiple projects that I'm not like focusing on just one thing I like switching between different books which I've been doing a lot of for the last few years
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, there's so many books that you've come out with, like, in just terms of, like, the series that you've been working on.
9:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's very, like, a scientifically-minded brain that, like, you need a lot of little projects to work on, even though they're, like, all creative.
9:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Something I always ask authors is that Gilmore Girls first aired in October, two thousand.
9:50
[SPEAKER_00]: What were you writing in the year two thousand?
9:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't really.
9:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I started writing during the pandemic like that was when I kind of like I worked sort of in a writing background a little bit like I worked for newspapers and magazines and I worked in marketing when the pandemic hits.
10:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually have an engineering degree which is I mean, not safer work was sort of based on
10:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So my time there and in two thousand, I would have, yeah, just been, I would have been in university at the time.
10:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wasn't writing it all at that point.
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just going to work.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I was loved reading, but I had never really thought about writing a book.
10:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in the back, you know, everyone says I want to write a book.
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
10:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I had never taken that seriously at that point.
10:26
[SPEAKER_01]: What were you reading at that time?
10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I was really into literary high pollutants.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
10:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, Booker Prize winning type things.
10:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like that's like such like a normal romance girl thing to have like, it's especially with me like I went to college and I was like, if it wasn't trusted for a Pulitzer, like it's not true.
10:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.
10:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, then like five years later, suddenly it's like nothing but romance.
10:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, then I just don't romance and I never looked back.
10:53
[SPEAKER_00]: What was like your first, I guess, romances that you were reaching for, that you were a member of.
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I read like VC Andrews and stuff like that that we weren't supposed to read when we were way too young to read.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I felt like that.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know consciously, I mean, at twilight.
11:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
11:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, hunger games, like when all of that stuff started to get really popular, like I was just because twilight, I mean, I was fully an adult when twilight came out.
11:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I read the first book on the plane from my honeymoon.
11:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I finished and I was like damn, that was good and I was like now I'm gonna have to wait till we get home to get the other two because we were going to Croatia and I was like yeah, but then we found an English bookstore and I found the second two and I said to my brand new husband I'm like so I'm gonna be reading.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know what you have planned, but I'm all booked.
11:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think it was a good precursor to our relationship and that's sure whatever you want to.
11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I go on read your book.
11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, stuff like that.
11:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, yeah, I mean, I don't know, I discovered like fantasy romance like right when it was starting to get really popular, like I had started reading indie books.
11:56
[SPEAKER_01]: The Italian jaster was when I started reading Raven Kennedy and I was like, oh, these are great.
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I started in surgery mass, obviously, and you know, all the big ones.
12:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, this is the
12:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there was a moment when I was like, I always knew I wanted to write a book, but that was the moment I saw reading those and like, okay, this was this is what I wanted to write.
12:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I was sure like fantasy I've always liked to.
12:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I read a lot of the classics I read the whole Robert Jordan, you know, all twelve gigantic books like
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it was when I discovered fantasy romances like this is what I've been looking for and that's when sort of all just came together right when the pandemic hit and I had suddenly like I was working from home and my I have to kids but my youngest was five by then so like he was still young but like starting to become more manageable in a lot of ways has been wasn't traveling and like I don't know I felt like I had time I'd never had before or I hadn't had in years and I just was like I you're not getting any younger you thought about this
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: What if you sat down and wrote a book?
12:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's such a normal story with the pandemic.
12:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like me and everyone kind of reevaluate like that.
12:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you said that thing in the back of their mind that was just sitting there.
13:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:03
[SPEAKER_00]: What are we going to do?
13:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel bad saying that the pandemic was one of the best things that happened to me because I know it was really awful for a lot of people.
13:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I live in a very small city where like things were never that bad.
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I live in Canada.
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we don't have a healthcare issue, right?
13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't know.
13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just, I was working from home.
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just very chill for us.
13:20
[SPEAKER_01]: We were very fortunate.
13:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it was also the moment when I was like, whoa, I don't know.
13:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Fire just lit under my butt.
13:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just like, I'm gonna figure out how to make this happen.
13:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wrote that first book and I wrote another one and I wrote another one.
13:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just like, have not stopped for five years, basically.
13:37
[SPEAKER_00]: He must be very tired.
13:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I am.
13:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm better now.
13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I was pretty burnt out the last year, but I took some time off earlier this year, and now I'm just working at a nice place.
13:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:47
[SPEAKER_00]: When you take time off, like, what things refill your creative well?
13:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that was it.
13:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I wasn't doing any, like, I was, I had gotten so things have been so crazy.
13:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think when they're like, right the next book, right the next book, I kept like going going going and then everything happened at once for me.
14:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, try the sunscreen blew up.
14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I signed my Ramcom contract.
14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I signed the contract for my other series.
14:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, suddenly I had like,
14:10
[SPEAKER_01]: By the summer of twenty two twenty three I had eleven books under contract all of a sudden like I went from zero to every thing and it was crazy because I don't know just when it rains of pours right like because we just I kept just putting a storming for you and suddenly I was like oh my god so like I mean basically I spent five years doing nothing but sitting at my desk and you know later I gave up I stopped exercising starting here
14:34
[SPEAKER_01]: myself, like, feeling like, how do you do it?
14:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I have a very unhealthy work life balance.
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's no secret here.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what to tell you.
14:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just working all the time in between trying to be a mom and like, not be completely terrible.
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah.
14:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So then the last, at the end of last year, I was just like, I was finishing up, artifacts was done.
14:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I was finishing up the final book in my other series, my nightfire series, and I was just like,
14:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so exhausted like I was just like I had published five books last year I think for the year before like I was just like ready to collapse and so like I took most of December January February often I don't know we went to Mexico I read a whole bunch of books like I just to and for me like when I'm reading great books is when I think I'm the best writer so because I kind of stopped enjoying reading last year because I just was so burnt out that that was like making it harder to write and it was just you know just starting to like snowball a little bit but anyways yeah I read a ton of books I you know starting exercising again taking
15:28
[SPEAKER_01]: better than myself.
15:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like reminding my kids what I look like.
15:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's been good.
15:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I still had a few.
15:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I just had to do some edits and I still had a few things on my plate, but it wasn't like this intense like craziness that it had been.
15:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was like an eleven bucks.
15:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I like it shocked to hear that that's where that was at.
15:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
15:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just that's insane.
15:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Stupid.
15:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was a little bit stupid for all that.
15:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But like knowing that like you were doing that much and like not say for where came out of that like, I'm in awe.
16:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm truly like that that's crazy.
16:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And not not about the part where you stopped taking care of yourself.
16:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad that there was a better balance now.
16:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen, there was a it was all part of the plan and it all worked out.
16:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like I can I've earned the right to sort of step back a little bit and just sort of be busy, but not like.
16:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm so glad that you'll feel that way anymore.
16:23
[SPEAKER_00]: But something that kind of brings me back to your author's note for not saying forward.
16:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Something that really hit me and I I related to a lot and I imagine a lot of people do, which is you wrote this book as a love letter to my past self who knew within a few years that engineering was never the right choice for me.
16:40
[SPEAKER_00]: What brought you to that realization?
16:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what was that like in the middle of that career?
16:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like I imagine that was what you went to school for and then in the middle of the career you were like, oh,
16:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Not this.
16:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe I even knew earlier.
16:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know.
16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I find it ridiculous that you're seventeen or eighteen years old, you're finishing high school and you're supposed to decide what you are going to do with the rest of your life.
16:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's just crazy that that's what we expect from people.
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I don't know.
17:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in high school.
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I was good at math and science.
17:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And when your girl was good at math and science, then everyone's supposed to push you that way.
17:08
[SPEAKER_01]: My dad's an engineer, my brother's an engineer.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm happy in the end.
17:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And like in that culture, you become a doctor lower engineer.
17:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are the main, like, acceptable.
17:16
[SPEAKER_01]: career past and so like I went into engineering and like I floundered through school and I'm like yeah okay you know I wanted something that was stable and paid well and I lived in Alberta which is like the oil and gas capital of Canada so like everyone there is an engineer it's just like part of the culture and then I started working and I was like oh
17:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I hit a point and I was like, I cannot do this for thirty forty years or however many till I retire, right?
17:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I was in my twenties and I just like, I was like, I got to do something else but then I just didn't know what that was.
17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I want to be a writer but I was like, what the hell does that even mean?
17:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I took a, I took a random night class, a creative writing class at a local college just for fun and they talked about this like creative communications program that they had at their college like a two year program and I was like, that sounds like fun.
18:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like I applied on a whim not thinking I would get in and then suddenly they were like well we have an extra spot and you had to do like a whole test and everything and I don't know I got in and then I was like oh god I have to make a decision now so I quit my job I at the time I then now has been then boyfriend we had just like moved in together so like and he had a he's also an engineer
18:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was kind of like, I mean, I had some money saved from like, I had sold a condo when I moved to where I was.
18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, I had a little bit of money stocked piled that I wasn't sure what I was going to do with.
18:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, okay, I guess I'm going to go back to school for a couple of years.
18:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when yeah, I like, I took journalism and I worked for some magazines and stuff like that.
18:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's sort of writing like not creative writing, but creative writing adjacent.
18:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I did that for a really long time.
18:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I did PR and I did marketing and that kind of stuff and then basically until
18:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I still had that for a few years until I was able to write full time.
18:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But boy, did you write full time?
18:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's actually such a good career path to have before writing books and like selling books because like you kind of have like an idea of what goes on on the other side.
19:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It was actually really helpful to already understand social media and email marketing and all that.
19:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that was actually a really helpful thing for me that that was not like I not brand new to me.
19:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So that actually worked out.
19:17
[SPEAKER_00]: effect and like you had no idea like this was like where you were going to be because they couldn't.
19:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:22
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I was actually working on.
19:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
19:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You ended up it was fake.
19:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember where you all ended up.
19:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And you indie published immediately when you did that.
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: What was the decision to do that versus traditional?
19:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually wasn't.
19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to be trad first.
19:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had written a part of the night in fire was the first book I ever wrote, which was originally like a YA fantasy with some romance in it.
19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't even really know what indie publishing was yet.
19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And I took this course, I joined this group where like taught you how to like queer for an agent, and I did that.
19:52
[SPEAKER_01]: spent a few months querying and I signed with somebody and then we put that book on sub and it's set on sub for like eighteen months and like nothing's happening and that's when I wrote a not safe or work also and then we put that one on sub and it's set on some for like a year and I was like this is just very annoying and then that's when I was started reading reading indie and stuff like that and I was like reading more and more romantasy which was starting to like really hit in the indie space and I was like I could do this like why am I waiting for someone to tell me if I can publish book
20:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like at that time, Trad was not picking up those kinds of books.
20:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yes, there was the huge success surgery mask, but that was it.
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: They weren't picking up anything else like that.
20:28
[SPEAKER_01]: They were just, that was the only thing that really existed on the Trad side, especially in adults.
20:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, well, why am I wasting my time here?
20:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm going to indie publish.
20:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I published an novella, and then I published trial of Sanqueen, like in late twenty twenty two.
20:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when stuff started really.
20:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when I suddenly got the deal for the rom-coms.
20:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And suddenly got the deal for my other series.
20:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And then trial blew up.
20:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the publisher started coming to me.
20:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was a bunch of stuff.
20:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That was fun.
20:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I ended up leaving my first agent because I just felt like I had seen a couple A.K.
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Mulford is always my example.
21:02
[SPEAKER_01]: She writes Romantician Herb series.
21:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It got picked up for a huge sum of money.
21:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, I was out of thing that can happen.
21:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, suddenly I was like, OK, because then it felt like that was possible.
21:13
[SPEAKER_01]: went to my current agent and I was like, look, here's what's coming, but I feel like I would like to sign to someone else and actually choose very nice about it.
21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: She agreed.
21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So I ended up querying for another agent, which in this case took me a day and a half, which was a much, again, and much, nice, very good.
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Then the first time when you come with something and you're like, hey, I have the series very, very well.
21:32
[SPEAKER_01]: You got publishers coming to me.
21:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and my first agency refused to shop foreign rights for me.
21:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they just did not think my indie book was worth their time at all.
21:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Even I literally had publishers coming to me and they still weren't like, they would have like happily just taken them, you know, signed a contract and taken their commission.
21:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was like, you are not getting a penny of this.
21:51
[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't do anything to help me with this.
21:53
[SPEAKER_01]: and they refuse to like do any and in the end like artifacts ended up selling for multi multi six figures in foreign rights and I hope they saw that I know that I think that was because I was like two years ago two and a half years ago when tried was still very much like indie is useless and we don't care about it
22:13
[SPEAKER_01]: and it was just starting for everyone who's just starting to realize this is not the case anymore.
22:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas now here we are in twenty twenty five and like indie authors are ones who were signing all the deals these days, right?
22:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
22:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you like especially your experience with an agent like that's so key to find someone who is like really going to like
22:32
[SPEAKER_00]: be that person and fight for you.
22:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
22:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And like my current agent is like we are so on the same wavelength.
22:36
[SPEAKER_01]: The minute I'm like, I want someone to keep like, I can barely keep up with her right.
22:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Like before I was like, felt like, come on.
22:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Like be more on this.
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And in this case, she's like, we're always strategizing.
22:47
[SPEAKER_01]: We're always like, okay, what's next?
22:48
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the next thing?
22:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And like that is what I needed and wanted.
22:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's been great.
22:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she's earned every penny of her commission.
22:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I just I love that so much that like in your twenties like like as you said like when you're seventeen trying to decide what you want to do you realize this was not it and that it took you a while to get here but here you are and you found exactly where you're meant to be and what you meant to do writing these and sometimes I'm like I wish I'd done it ten years earlier but like maybe I just wasn't there yet I don't know I could have like everything could have been totally different had I done it because earlier you know maybe I wouldn't have had any success and
23:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Who knows?
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess things just happen when the way they're supposed to happen.
23:24
[SPEAKER_00]: They do.
23:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And you are now doing fantastic.
23:28
[SPEAKER_00]: With your eleventh book.
23:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'd still, I'd truly still get it.
23:32
[SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty good.
23:33
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a huge summer that you came out thought you were going to be like, you know, like three or eleven insane.
23:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So I pulled out some things from not say for work that I'm doing like a true or false about you to try and figure out if the things that you put in your book.
23:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Are true about you?
23:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Not necessarily happened, but are true about you.
23:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
23:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried to do some soft ones because there were some things I was like, we could probably be here for days to talk about the person.
23:59
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think they're kind of like, but this first one is true about me from my previous job.
24:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So as I read this, I wonder if it was true about you too.
24:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, true or false, you have a list of the wild things people said that you kept during your time as an engineer.
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I did, and it was a thing that I met.
24:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Me and some of the other women who my office, we always joked, we were like, we're gonna write a book about this one day because some of this stuff is great.
24:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the opening scene where he asked her on a scale of one to ten, how would you rate me?
24:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That happened.
24:27
[SPEAKER_01]: That was real.
24:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
24:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were gonna call a conversation with the seven because that's what called themselves.
24:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh no.
24:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, because I was in your dedication, like you mentioned that, like, we've always had been a book.
24:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I love, um, by love his first line.
24:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, I was like, this is fun.
24:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he was harmless.
24:48
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a nice guy.
24:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there was nothing like, but I think that's what's so great about this book is like, the spectrum of men who are like, I guess fine.
24:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, he's harmless to very harmful men, but like, it's still that thing in the workplace of like, why are you doing this to me?
25:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are you asking me to read me?
25:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
25:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna, I thought you were like nice guy, but like you're virgining on the other end of the spectrum.
25:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you love this?
25:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Like why?
25:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But then he says to you, I think you're attendin' and you're like, oh, okay, well, that's nice.
25:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like the nice, but like, I know.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you ask?
25:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are we saying this?
25:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, why?
25:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are we talking?
25:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was funny because...
25:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we were all young, you know, like everyone's in their twenties and horny and spindle and like, so like, yeah, that stuff came up quite a bit.
25:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like, yeah, it did sort of like lean towards some funny conversations.
25:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But yes, I always kept those in the back of my mind and I was like, one day we're going to write a book and then I finally didn't.
25:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I finally didn't.
25:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I was here.
25:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I also have a list.
25:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a write a book about Broadway, which is where my previously, like, I have, I kept a long list that is buried in my notes app.
25:48
[SPEAKER_00]: deleted if I deleted it when I die.
25:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But the next one is true false.
25:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You love Taylor Swift, specifically folklore.
25:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
25:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you a sweaty?
25:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I am.
25:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's funny when I wrote it.
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I was like, exile was my twenty twenty comfort song.
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I listened to it.
26:04
[SPEAKER_00]: What a comfort song, thousand times.
26:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's love it.
26:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Just love that song every time I heard and then I wrote it into the book and I was always a Taylor Swift fan but my thirteen year old daughter was the Swiftie.
26:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Like hardcore hardcore and we went to go see her in Vancouver in December and it was one of the greatest nights of my life.
26:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I after that became the hardest course with you.
26:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she's kind of over it, but I'm like, no, no, I'm like, listen to her twenty four seven.
26:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I was, I don't know, that was so good.
26:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so good.
26:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I could, I can't even express how good that night was.
26:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how three and a half hours went like that.
26:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was just the whole energy was so good.
26:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And we went with her friend and her mom who's also my friend and Stephanie.
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And we keep joking.
26:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, next to her, we're going, we don't care what it costs, we don't care where it is.
26:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We are going.
26:51
[SPEAKER_01]: The girls can come if they want to, but the two of us are girls from Disney style.
26:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
26:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It's totally your favorite and you have a different favorite album.
26:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually think a torture post department's own favorite album overall because I like a lot.
27:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
27:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one.
27:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of people weren't like big fans of it, but like, I mean, I have it behind me.
27:08
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of something.
27:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, I see that.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of songs on there I love.
27:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But exile is like over on my favorite songs.
27:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Such a good one.
27:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I love one tour when she would sing that.
27:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Like is the surprise song and the crowd would be Bonnie Verre and they would sing his part of my favorite.
27:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so I'm bummed that she didn't do it at our show, but I know that it was a long shot.
27:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, but one day I was somewhere enchanted was one of them, which is great because it's my daughter's favorites.
27:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other one was one, I'm not that familiar with was from one of her really early albums.
27:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, yeah, I don't know if it was fantastic.
27:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It was fantastic.
27:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It was all good.
27:43
[SPEAKER_00]: The next year of fall, you've never crushed a wedding.
27:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never crushed it.
27:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of was hoping that was false.
27:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Not to that, yeah, not like that.
27:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate a workout like Tristas.
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, back in those, when I was first writing that book, I used to be like a total dim rat and then I let myself go.
28:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's still there.
28:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm back and I'm back now.
28:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm back.
28:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I go to boot camps every time we come back now.
28:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But yes, I do enjoy.
28:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I have always enjoyed weightlifting in that.
28:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:12
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I always, and I really love their scenes in the book and so I was wondering where they lent them well themselves well.
28:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, definitely.
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: muscles and shirtless people.
28:22
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a perfect setup.
28:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, folks.
28:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't like team building activities.
28:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say I don't really have them.
28:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
28:31
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not for me.
28:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, does anyone like them?
28:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
28:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's streaming.
28:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's not gonna be me.
28:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's something you deal with.
28:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You get bad headaches.
28:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Tristas.
28:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
28:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that was one that I had fun sort of say fun.
28:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's the right word, but I had never really written read anything that incorporated headaches into it and like they define my life in a lot of ways.
28:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually after I wrote that, I read seven days in June by dear Williams and her
29:03
[SPEAKER_01]: and she explores it way more than I did and I just I felt so seen by that and I like it further confirm their decision to conclude that and not say for work because I was like yes this is great but yes I do and they define my whole life and I just thought I wanted to include it.
29:19
[SPEAKER_00]: No and I loved that and I totally know what you mean by fun because it like allowed for this like very intimate connection that wasn't sexual that just was entirely them
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: being affectionate.
29:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and he could be like worried about her without it being, yeah, which is like, I feel like with my husband, he always feels so helpless.
29:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what can I do?
29:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, nothing has nothing you can do.
29:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate that you want to do something about it.
29:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can give me a nice little massage, like, great does.
29:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:43
[SPEAKER_01]: They're me alone for a bit.
29:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, folks, you love to bake or you appreciate the work of a baker.
29:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't mind baking, but I do love eating.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's for sure.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Love a nice sweet sweet with your favorite.
29:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I do love macarons or cupcakes or, I mean, I think.
29:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Really, I'm not picky when it comes to dessert.
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: He was, have you ever seen Amari Gwishou?
30:04
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like a chocolate artist.
30:06
[SPEAKER_01]: He's on TikTok.
30:07
[SPEAKER_01]: He's incredible.
30:09
[SPEAKER_01]: He makes these like chocolate sculptures.
30:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, he was, Rayf is a little bit inspired by him.
30:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, I don't think he'll find him.
30:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he loves looking videos.
30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Millions of TikTok.
30:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He had like a show on the food network.
30:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Or really?
30:18
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a French guy from Montreal.
30:20
[SPEAKER_01]: He's also very cute on top of everything.
30:22
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a chocolate and a cute sort of one.
30:24
[SPEAKER_00]: What more could you like?
30:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
30:25
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like this amazing pastry chef and then he's also very adorable.
30:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't watch the great British bag off.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I used to be addicted to the French channel.
30:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I got addicted to it and I had to stop.
30:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I had to force myself to stop because I was staying up and sleeping three o'clock in the morning watching British people bake.
30:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Watch it and I had to stop.
30:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It was becoming a problem.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like a Canadian one.
30:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I did watch that but Canadians are not as funny as British people.
30:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
30:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not true.
30:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But I have been banned for watching it, simply for my own.
30:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you need to do that.
30:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You're detoxing, yeah.
30:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You're supposed to love a tropical destination.
30:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I love a beach destination.
30:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I like nothing is better to me than sitting by a pool with a drink and a bottle of beer.
31:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: That is my ideal vacation.
31:06
[SPEAKER_00]: This book, if anyone wants to.
31:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I realize, if you're listening, I just pointed to not say for work behind me.
31:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I forget this is an audio medium, not a book.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Not a visual.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: My last one is your favorite romance trope is enemies or rivals to lovers.
31:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
31:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I've ever.
31:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually trying to write a book right now that doesn't have that.
31:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think it's.
31:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like honestly like lore and a deer from trials on Queen Lake the artifacts aren't else.
31:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I love them so much like enemies to lovers to there's some of my favorite enemies that became lovers.
31:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when we get rivals slash enemies to lovers, I think it's more rivals in contemporary.
31:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think in a contemporary setting, he feels like he's her enemy.
31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
31:53
[SPEAKER_01]: The guy who stole your stapler is not your enemy versus, which is like one reason I love Romanticie is because it's just like so over the top, like you killed your family.
32:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And now some way you have some fun.
32:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Find your way through, right?
32:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Had a good reason, though.
32:05
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't like contemporary.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: If you killed your whole family, like, yeah, that's the whole other subgenre for going to go there.
32:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So as video you have not seen for work, one of the reasons that I chose it for a book club is because I feel like no more girls is centered around smart girls in a rigorous academic setting who will eventually enter into a workplace and encounter men, the boys club, like they do in this book, particularly Paris who ultimately wants to go into Madison.
32:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But one of the things I love about the book club is expanding upon the show and in particular there was never a woman of color in this academic setting who got to expand into this workplace, so inter-year book, inter-trace.
32:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And the love interest I felt like was very much like Logan where he, you know, kind of like hated his family, but followed their plan and ultimately wanted to do something else.
32:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the rave is much better example of that.
32:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Not to mention that when I got this book, I wanted to sink into it.
33:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I did not want to leave it, which is a lot out of the old book.
33:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to sink into the world and not go.
33:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Very different, Connecticut's small town, work trip and Hawaii, but that's seeing feeling of wanting to be there.
33:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I always find, yeah, jobs are universal.
33:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
33:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So what is your history with Go More Girls?
33:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched it back in the day and I like know all the major players.
33:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I wouldn't say I'm like a hardcore fan, but I was enjoyed it.
33:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, is there something about it that you remember really loving or that resonating with you?
33:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I obviously I loved the mother-daughter relationship with Laura Lyon.
33:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
33:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it would just seem like so fun.
33:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:44
[SPEAKER_01]: and not that much like my relationship.
33:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that's so like there's such like a diversity of like mother, daughter relationships as it comes to the show of like either you're like them and it like you and your mom watch it like every day after school together and you're just like them or you're like never had a mother like this and it's like healing in some ways.
34:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like so many people come at it from different directions with the mother.
34:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I loved their banter and stuff too.
34:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like just hopped to your panter I mean.
34:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a team like one of like the Justine Logan or... If I remember I would say Team Jess I think is who I would be going for.
34:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not like Dean in the end.
34:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Most people didn't like the man who cheated on his wife.
34:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But the wonderful thing about fiction is sometimes you can just like, you know, scoop it right now.
34:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So they just think is this anymore?
34:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you watched the revival in twenty sixteen Logan is cheating on his fiance with worry.
34:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
34:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
34:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
34:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I did watch that and now I just scoop that out.
34:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm team Logan, but I feel like a lot of writers are team just because he's that like he likes to read.
34:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You had that tortured.
34:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that tortured artist's vibe.
34:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the dark hair, the likes to be reading with the other jacket.
34:55
[SPEAKER_00]: He likes me and no one else and like a little bit.
34:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I can fix it.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like authors particularly.
35:02
[SPEAKER_01]: on in books.
35:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't I that's not in real life.
35:04
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not in real life at all.
35:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if I was just to go front out of cried like every day.
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many things in especially romance here.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like that would drive me insane in real life, but it's really hot in this fiction.
35:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if there's so many moments in romance, you're I'd be like, just like leave me alone.
35:20
[SPEAKER_00]: You're bothering me, but like when they're at when it's happening, I'm like, no, no, come back.
35:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Come back.
35:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Rape is a man I can bear in real life.
35:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
35:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like and that's why like I coincidentally the last couple books that I've chosen have felt like very much like Logan where it was like rich man doesn't like his family but still working for them and it was like completely unaccident but I feel like Rape is the much.
35:43
[SPEAKER_00]: the much more emotionally mature version of them, which often times happens when we pull romance books like from this sort of like source material of Gilmore girls, because most of the men were not emotionally mature.
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: which is also fun.
36:00
[SPEAKER_01]: With writing, I wanted to be really careful because she deals with some races and so on, Jenny and stuff.
36:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I didn't want any, none of that could come from him, right?
36:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's not a redeemable quality.
36:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's no way to come back from that.
36:11
[SPEAKER_01]: In a character, right?
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we can talk about morally gray male characters.
36:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, if the source of that moral greatness comes from being racist term, it's like, there's no coming back from that.
36:21
[SPEAKER_01]: That cannot be done.
36:23
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
36:23
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no redeeming that.
36:25
[SPEAKER_00]: That's one of those things.
36:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if that occurred and that was the love interest, I think I would
36:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
36:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I just wanted to be incredibly careful that no one thought that that was coming from him.
36:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And anyway, that was not where that was coming from.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that sometimes in romance, that's oftentimes why like when those sort of themes are presented that he sometimes seems like the perfect ideal man because there's this like quality of him that you want to like distance him so far from that sort of conflict that like his flaws have to be like almost like he like cares too much.
36:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just so in love with her.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't even like kind of like exactly.
37:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is also like I love that too.
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like an enemy's to lovers when he's just like pulling down bad for her.
37:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
37:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never got any down bad by Taylor Swift for this man.
37:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're not much of a girl's watcher, but what are your favorite shows to watch?
37:16
[SPEAKER_00]: What are your comfort shows to comfort TV?
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna say, I don't watch a ton of TV these days, and that's not a flex, it's just because it's the same.
37:23
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I feel the same.
37:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I mostly read, like, I don't watch much TV.
37:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, I end up reading more.
37:27
[SPEAKER_01]: What I loved, I love Bridgeton.
37:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I cannot wait for the next season.
37:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I am a, my favorite was the second season.
37:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I am Sess of Kate and Anthony.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved it.
37:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And it really loves the gilded age, which they never continued.
37:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was also like historical.
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's one main couple, and he is just like the wife guy.
37:45
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like super morally gray, but he will do anything for his wife.
37:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
37:50
[SPEAKER_01]: He will manipulate and lie like anything for her and I'm like this this is a power and it's a good couple.
37:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the witcher.
37:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and I'd love I've been obsessed with weight loss.
37:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, of course.
38:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you.
38:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you love like a morally gray sort of situation happening.
38:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like a messy.
38:07
[SPEAKER_00]: What sort of media do you consume when you're writing or do you avoid?
38:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm mostly read.
38:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like I just, when I'm reading great books, that's when I think my writing is the best.
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know like some authors will avoid stuff that's too close in their genre.
38:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But I, when I'm reading, I will read exactly in my genre when I'm writing because I just feel like it makes me a better writer.
38:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's weird how sometimes I can read something and we'll trigger an idea that has nothing to do with what I read.
38:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But somehow it just like makes me think, oh, I'm going to make this happen in the thing I'm currently drafting.
38:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why that happens, but it just sort of like happens constantly.
38:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So like,
38:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish I could remember who I think it was Regina Black.
38:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember exactly who it was, but on the sub-stack, she talked about how she reads while she writes, and it has to do with a quote that I'm completely going to butcher, and it's the idea of stealing the thought behind the style, not the style itself.
38:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's I do that too, because I'm in the middle of editing my first novel, and I've been reading a lot of romance.
39:04
[SPEAKER_00]: and I feel like it's really helpful because I'll read a moment between two characters that have nothing to do with what's going on in my book and suddenly I've solved something that's going on over here.
39:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why that happened.
39:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I guess the thought behind it or like there's an emotion I want to convey and I'm like, okay, this is the feeling I want.
39:23
[SPEAKER_01]: How am I going to get my characters to have this thing feeling?
39:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
39:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, to me it's mostly movie and mostly books.
39:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't I don't actually watch that much to your movies because I just I've won.
39:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I I totally agree.
39:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like like I feel like though I have a very obsessive personality.
39:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So like if I do get invested in something, I have to immediately cut myself off.
39:41
[SPEAKER_00]: See, it was like with the great British makeup I had to cut it off because it was like becoming a problem.
39:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mostly read.
39:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But what you're saying about the idea of like getting that feeling that you want to like convey in your own story of like this made me feel a certain way.
39:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to feel that way in mind.
39:56
[SPEAKER_00]: That was something that I talked about with Kenney Ryan on here, too, is like she will read something.
40:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I want my readers to feel the way that I feel right now while reading this.
40:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've heard so often that people don't read in the genre that they write.
40:11
[SPEAKER_00]: while they're drafting, so I love hearing more and more about people who read.
40:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, to me that, I mean, we all have our different processes, I guess, but... Well, when it comes to a process, what kind of works for you?
40:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Like in terms of like, do you sit down at this desk and just write or is there more to it than that for you?
40:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Sort of, I mean, I...
40:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a pantser.
40:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't plot.
40:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a hardcore pantser, which sometimes makes especially when you're writing like big long fantasy series.
40:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I worry about writing myself into a corner.
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So far, that hasn't happened yet.
40:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been so impressive in fantasy.
40:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
40:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll just work out.
40:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even like, in artifacts, there's something that happens in book two that I was a throwaway line that I didn't intend to do anything with that ended up becoming the whole catalyst for the ending of the series.
40:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I went back and I'm like this bit so well, and I didn't mean it to, but
41:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of fun in that regard.
41:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when I start a book, I sort of have a vague notion of the concept of who their love interests are.
41:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I know when they're kissed, but that's the important thing.
41:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I need to discover this, I need to hear them talk and stuff before I really know the story.
41:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll write about half of it.
41:22
[SPEAKER_01]: and then by then I know where it's all going so then I'll go back to the beginning and then I'll fill in the bits that will get me there and then I do that at about eighty percent again and then I start over and then by the time I get to the end I have a pretty solid working draft where I go and then I tend to draft mostly in the morning I don't know my work flows just better in the morning somehow and I try to commit to doing like a certain number of sprints blocks per day like I try to do six twenty five minute blocks per day at some point some days I get more some days I get less but that's sort of like
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: where I'm going in by then I've bought a few thousand words usually and that's if I'm drafting if I'm editing I can go like for hours without looking up like drafting for me is the harder part so I try to do it fast because I just want to get it done so that I can get to the editing which is when I then make the book good yeah
42:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's a case for most people.
42:05
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like just get rid of the blank page.
42:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can do something with it.
42:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you find like when you are, I guess, of course we're talking about not to say for work, but I'm clearly very invested in your fantasy work.
42:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so surprised here, like because I finished artifacts of Uranus and like going back towards like the
42:22
[SPEAKER_00]: third and fourth book thinking that you didn't have that quite established in the first two is kind of wild to think about.
42:30
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you're editing them, I guess like for like the first and the second, are you thinking about like what you're going to do in the future for them and like
42:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, and I'm sort of, I made with a contest effort to drop a few little Easter eggs or foreshadowing.
42:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And like when I wrote the first one, before I published the first one, I had a rough draft of the second one.
42:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had some ideas of like where that one was going.
42:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It did not have that luxury between book two and three.
42:55
[SPEAKER_01]: However, I knew what I wanted to do with book three.
42:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew that there was going to be a new POV.
43:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So I did put a foreshadowing line in the second book that some people picked up on and some people did not, but so that it would tie together.
43:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And then again, with the third and fourth books, I basically had to have them separate, but all I knew was I didn't want it to end with a war, because I didn't want to write a big battle, just that doesn't, I don't like reading them, I don't want to write one.
43:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
43:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it comes from reading a lot.
43:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it just sort of like the intuition is sort of in the back of your head because I think, you know, I read a lot and I think it was just part of the process.
43:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I bet I threw in a few things that ended up resulting in nothing.
43:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to go back to the second book now and find what the line is that reference to the point of view.
43:43
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the flashback chapters.
43:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
43:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I find it.
43:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That's very interesting.
43:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So you said that you mostly read books and you're not much like a TV film person, but do you listen to music while you're right?
43:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I do listen to music a lot.
43:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously lots of Taylor Swift, but I don't know.
44:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I have my music to write to playlists on my Spotify that has just been a collection of songs that are like amalgamated.
44:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
44:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's nothing really specific.
44:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of them are instrumental.
44:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
44:12
[SPEAKER_01]: That every time I hear it, I'm like it feels sometimes a book gets a song.
44:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but not every book does.
44:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why, but just some, but like when I was writing Taylor the Hard Queen, there was one song I just listened to on a loop over and over.
44:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Emma has been even coming and he'd be like, Oh, it's the book for song.
44:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess everyone knew that was my book for some.
44:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
44:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It just every time I put my earbuds in and I would listen and it would just make the story come.
44:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I do sometimes.
44:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I don't, though.
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I just needed to be quiet.
44:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
44:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it feels like a little bit like you're commute into the world.
44:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you're trying to song on and suddenly.
44:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Suddenly you're going to have a song and some of them just don't have it.
44:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's weird.
44:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
44:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Did not see for work how was song?
44:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Exile was it song?
44:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You just turned it on and suddenly you're on the way.
44:54
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
44:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Nazi for work is our book club pick for June for reading a sexy.
45:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved the title of this book so much, but it did worry me anytime I sent an email to our book club.
45:08
[SPEAKER_00]: It was going to get flagged.
45:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyone who has any relatives who have not yet read Nazi for work, what would be your elevator pitch or what would you want to tell them to entice them to read Nazi for work?
45:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess Nancy for work is sort of like if the hating game meets Ellie Hazelwood's feminist novels and rivals to lovers, the slow burn, office romance where the FMC is struggling in her day job and she's just like doesn't know where she's going and suddenly gets a surprise, a spot at a leadership retreat in Hawaii, but her co-intendi is the rival of the guy who can't stand the son of the boss and when they get there there's only one room, one bed and we all know.
45:51
[SPEAKER_01]: how things go from there can be possibly due.
45:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And at one point there's only one pillow too.
45:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:58
[SPEAKER_00]: That was.
46:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I took I love a one-bed trope and like I'm gonna take this even further.
46:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna have only one pillow.
46:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I truly love.
46:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
46:10
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, literally this was one of those books that like I had been a while since I had read something like this.
46:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like the first page I was locked in maybe because I hated Brian because I was annoyed at him.
46:21
[SPEAKER_00]: He was asking this question.
46:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, who is this guy?
46:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's find out.
46:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, truly, like, I had to at some point just like cut myself off and be like, okay, we have to go to sleep because it was just such a fantastic thing.
46:35
[SPEAKER_00]: No, thank you, really.
46:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was just such a fantastic book to be sucked into, but mostly because it has this incredible balance of like this lusty, sultry summer romance with a woman who is working in a man's world, specifically a woman of color who's working in a white man's world and the effect that that has on.
46:53
[SPEAKER_00]: how she felt about this job that she thought at one point that was like her, like breaking the glass ceiling on her end realizing that that truly was never going to happen for her.
47:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, like the title, not say for work, not safe at work, all in a workplace that's taking place in Hawaii.
47:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone in our book club asked, what sort of research did you do for the tropical elements?
47:13
[SPEAKER_00]: have you been to Hawaii or... I was not in Hawaii.
47:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, I'm like, I should have gone.
47:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I went on like expedient and I looked up a bunch of like fancy hotels and I like saved a few pictures.
47:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, this is what I want the room to look like.
47:25
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what I want the lobby to look like.
47:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that one was pretty like, not super deep.
47:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I don't really get super deep into the setting.
47:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just a made up hotel.
47:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And then even like the adventure park that they go to, like, I just sort of like, imagine the kind of thing that might exist and sort of went with it there.
47:43
[SPEAKER_01]: This one actually, because a lot of it was so informed by my own personal experiences, I didn't really need it.
47:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a ton of research, yeah.
47:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
47:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, well, I think your publisher should send you to Hawaii.
47:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
47:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We said we were like, shouldn't we have had the book launch in Hawaii or something?
47:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's read of them not.
48:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So now we're gonna do a little bit of a spoiler section to go like a little bit deeper just kind of have a conversation without the gutters if you will and a whole but like that's the metaphor that I love it and so if you have not yet read not see forward pause the episode grab the book go outside and read it and then come back
48:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And now we will welcome you back.
48:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for reading it.
48:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you have read it, thank you for sticking with us.
48:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So now we can just kind of talk in general.
48:24
[SPEAKER_00]: No worries about spoiling it.
48:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I never get to do this, okay?
48:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
48:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that's what so much fun about these sort of conversations is like you can just no bars.
48:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Just start there.
48:34
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do this.
48:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Love.
48:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first question is what was the first idea that you had for this and when you had it, what did you do with that idea?
48:43
[SPEAKER_01]: The first idea I would say was like the overall like I wanted to convey the engineering background because I wanted it to mimic the thing that I had experienced and so I wanted to bring in those crazy things that had happened.
48:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I knew I wanted it to be a rouse.
49:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean the hating game is one of my favorite all-time rom-coms and I want like when we were talking about conveying that feeling I wanted that that like angst that like slower and that like oh my god just like get over yourselves.
49:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so like when I like I said when I go sit down to write a book like I very much I know who the I know who the main characters are I usually know like especially the female comedian character usually comes to me first and then the male man character and like and even the name like rave came to me instantly I don't know just felt like a hot guy name and I love that
49:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I think it was just like the overall, like I knew I wanted that feeling of like that burning like they are so into each other, but neither of them seems to be able to admit it, angst.
49:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll just love angst.
49:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh, I love angst.
49:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of people love yearning, but I love angst.
49:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I love angst.
49:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Just give it to me.
49:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And you do it so well.
49:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank you.
49:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to race, a lot of people wanted to know what was the process of discovering what his secret passion was, was it always going to be banking or was there anything that you shut through?
50:07
[SPEAKER_01]: No, see, this is where when you're a pancer, you discover these things along the way.
50:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And you knew I wanted him to have like some other death, like first we discover he loves to draw.
50:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you like to draw or is that just something you gave to him?
50:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I do a little bit.
50:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I've actually learned
50:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I think becoming an author because I love getting art commissioned, but sometimes I'm like, I would love to be able to do this myself.
50:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I tell you that the art that you get commissioned for your book is so good?
50:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't it great?
50:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's incredible.
50:33
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some, okay, and it's a no way to shame other authors, but there's so many times that art comes out from other authors.
50:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, nope, they need to go to any shops.
50:41
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to, we should need to be consulted on this.
50:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, the art becomes from your books.
50:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's what made me want to continue on and reading your other story.
50:48
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to see it.
50:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because when I, of course, I, like, sought you out.
50:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But I didn't want to, like, go too far into it.
50:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause I don't want to get spoilers for anything.
50:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But then when I started seeing art for other things for your other series for the nightfire quartet, I was like, well, what's going on here?
51:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so good.
51:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I love it.
51:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I, I'm very, like,
51:08
[SPEAKER_01]: delivered about the artist side pick like the styles and then yeah I sometimes I joke I'm like I write books so I can fund my real career of commissioning art and the old patrons of old that like sponsored artists yeah that's super fun but yeah actually I've gotten a bit into drawing because of that which is actually one thing I do do on the side a little bit just for fun because I think it would be fun to be able I don't know how many hours it would take to be that good I don't know if I have that patient
51:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Just sometimes it's kind of fun.
51:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, like I just I wanted him to be the not like with Triss I wanted her to stay in engineering.
51:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted her to do the opposite of what I did.
51:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wanted her to not step out of it and like go to something more creative because I feel like that's often what happens with stories when we have women in more like traditionally male roles is that they give up at the job and they go into something that's more female and I'm using quotation marks, but
51:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So I very consciously didn't want her to do that.
51:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted him to be that person.
52:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I knew what could he do.
52:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I had come across, like I was saying, this Amarig was showing who was the inspiration for him.
52:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'm like, this guy's like hot baker.
52:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like hot baker.
52:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Like yeah, that would be great.
52:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, this is the joy of being a dancer.
52:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it kind of came to me while I was writing those scenes.
52:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, yeah, this is what I want his, the twist to be his secret to be.
52:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I hadn't really thought of that much as like, yeah, there is a lot of like books where like the quote unquote male dominated workplace that the female works and she goes on to do something that's like outside of that.
52:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But instead, it's right.
52:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It's him.
52:34
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the secret softball one to him to be the one that does the more creative.
52:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm washing in the end.
52:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that and like he has his bakery like that was that little twist I was like my gosh.
52:47
[SPEAKER_00]: What a beauty.
52:49
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going on.
52:49
[SPEAKER_01]: The bake for you.
52:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what could be better?
52:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like imagine him like noticing her eat the cake like when she's like mortified, but like to him that was his love language.
52:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, and like I love like the I guess the crumbs if you will that would lead for that when he's like eating the airport He's like not very good.
53:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay He's rich.
53:14
[SPEAKER_00]: He has a good palate.
53:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know Yeah, he's critical of the airport background.
53:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, sure.
53:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fair.
53:22
[SPEAKER_00]: That is really fair
53:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to find out because he has a secret topic.
53:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Not secretly hot, very openly hot, but secretly a baker.
53:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to rave, and even, I guess love interests male lovers, just in general in your fantasy, is what is most important when it comes to writing them?
53:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be rave specifically or just in general.
53:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I want them to always be like supportive of the female character, right?
53:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're never ever trying to like double her shine in any way whatsoever.
53:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're there.
53:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like strong characters and strong personalities in their own right, but they are always like you are my queen.
54:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like I want you to be the star of everything.
54:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like I would
54:06
[SPEAKER_01]: die for you, you know, like, this is just like over the top, like, you know, ultimately, I don't we, I think all romance is fantasy and it's own weight, right?
54:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, even contemporaries in its own weight, like, because sometimes situations were in our, like, so out there, and I don't know, maybe a lot of women haven't, you know, and I, I marriage a man who does that.
54:25
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, totally my biggest cheerleader who has never, ever stopped me from wanting to do anything is, like, absolutely, like,
54:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he just takes the seats and just like, okay, whatever he wanted to.
54:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And even when I've been so busy like he was the first person to be like, okay, you go do whatever it is you need to do.
54:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I will pick up the sack with the kids and everything like that and like never has once complained about that.
54:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, like I think that's what I'm trying to emulate.
54:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I want them to sort of like be strong characters in their own right, but also like they never are trying to like make her smaller, right?
54:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's never on their agenda.
54:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love that.
54:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do understand like it being like a fantasy and a contemporary and I think it's more of just like fantasizing that is something that you have, right?
55:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's very clear you have it at home.
55:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because like when it comes to like lore and a deer in the artifacts of rain, I was he really is like you are my queen.
55:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you.
55:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
55:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe literally any bad thing you do versus like with Raven.
55:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
55:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little different.
55:22
[SPEAKER_01]: A good counterbalance to who they are, the fact that they love all the crazy traits about them, and Laura's very impulsive, and very like, can be quick to like, you know, lose her shit, but like, he loves that about her.
55:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you appreciate those things about her, rather than like trying to change those things about her.
55:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But then also offers like a balance to her by being a little bit more stoic and coffee.
55:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless it comes to her safety, obviously.
55:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously.
55:44
[SPEAKER_00]: If she's in danger.
55:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's all that's right.
55:49
[SPEAKER_00]: What about with rape and trists?
55:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you feel like their balance is?
55:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think a bit in the same way, where he can sort of be her support, she's sort of been dealt this crappy hand in this world.
56:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And secretly, the whole time, he was trying to like gun for her, and she just didn't know.
56:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was doing, and I think in his case, he's trying to do the best he can inside a system that is impossible to break, right?
56:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's a white guy with a whole lot of privilege, and he acknowledges it.
56:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But even she kind of gets mad at him for trying to be her white knight, but he was
56:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, I wanted to do something and, you know, and she sort of acknowledges that, like, he was trying to help in his own, even if it was slightly misguided way, but like, he's also working with an assistant that is, you know, so entrenched in every, you know, in a way.
56:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, there's some sort of things you can do.
56:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think they kind of balanced each other in that way in that.
56:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He was sort of, yeah, her support, her, even secretly when he would, you know,
56:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Which I think says a lot about him and that he was NASA for an credit, even like he was doing it secretly until she like basically forced the truth out of him.
56:53
[SPEAKER_01]: She had no idea that he was doing all of this for her and yeah.
56:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
56:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like working together nicely.
56:58
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an idea of people who talk well of you in rooms that you're not in that he'd that him.
57:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like it's even harder for him because like not only is it like the system that that is supporting him as a white male and engineering, but it's like it's his family.
57:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's this like love interest, like his ex, who he feels like this obligation to because of the connection to his family.
57:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's not just saying fuck you to the system.
57:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also to his family.
57:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:26
[SPEAKER_00]: In order to do that.
57:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And he needs like, I know at one point he's like, well, all my problems must be seen.
57:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So, right.
57:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, it's not, yeah, you have all this privilege.
57:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But that means it doesn't mean you can't also have problems.
57:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
57:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we all have problems.
57:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You know how.
57:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, rich and powerful we think we are.
57:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or like like how deeply he feels because obviously.
57:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, his emotional little baby.
57:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he is a little baby.
57:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think maybe that's where they kind of counter two or just just a bit more like, you know, concrete sequential and and Rayford sort of in the soft heart that's softly hard in the end.
57:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
57:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I love.
58:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So for Triss, she is obviously a lot more personal to you based on the authors note and to your history with being an engineer.
58:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Would she someone that came naturally to you in the drafting process or was that hard to pull out of you?
58:14
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I would say it was easy.
58:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think like, of all the books ever, and she's definitely the most me character.
58:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, yeah, which made it easy, but also hard in some ways.
58:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it was easy.
58:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know.
58:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I just felt like I got to tell this tale that I always wanted to tell and feel like I really understood her, because I really did understand her in a way.
58:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, instantly, I knew exactly who she was and what she was thinking.
58:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, like, I was saying in one of my tour styles.
58:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I also never need to do that again.
58:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this was a really personal story and really personal character in me, but now I've done it.
58:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't ever need to write that character again.
58:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, wash your hands of that process.
58:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We did it.
58:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, we can go out.
58:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to.
58:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
58:55
[SPEAKER_00]: What was that?
58:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I guess having that come out is like knowing, knowing at the beginning of this book, you're revealing to the reader.
59:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is very similar to my experience or this character is very similar to me.
59:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And then to just like send that out into the world and be like,
59:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Enjoy.
59:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's scary.
59:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Like even when like it wasn't selling on sub and I was like if this one doesn't sell like I'm actually gonna be really upset like I think you you get used to rejection in creative fields right like you projection is just part of it.
59:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I if another book had died on sub I would have like been eh kind of sad but like I would have this one had I think I would have been pretty heartbroken just because it's so personal
59:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And then yeah, once it started going out to me, I feel like it's my best book.
59:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, it did feel really personal to me in that regard.
59:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, I have to say, the love I have gotten for these, this book has been like just so great.
59:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously, I don't like it.
59:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's just how it goes.
59:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But generally, I just like feel people really got her.
59:50
[SPEAKER_01]: They, and the number of people who have been like this, this experience is so similar to what I've experienced in my workplace.
59:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, even like the headache wrap, like the number of like, all the, I had no, there were so many headache girlies.
1:00:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, just like so many.
1:00:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But I have this too and I was like, okay, this is great.
1:00:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, it was definitely it's always nerve-wracking when those first arcs go out and I'm just like, oh god, I don't even waiting for that first tag.
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, oh no.
1:00:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always been a promise to me.
1:00:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, it's terrible.
1:00:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:00:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, although I think, and I keep joking, I'm like the more books I publish, the more of a sensitive baby I become.
1:00:25
[SPEAKER_01]: The more of a baby comes.
1:00:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:00:27
[SPEAKER_01]: When I first published and like, I'm gonna read my reviews.
1:00:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I can handle this.
1:00:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I can not handle it anymore.
1:00:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God.
1:00:34
[SPEAKER_01]: If you did not like this book, I do not want to hear about it.
1:00:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is between you and so on.
1:00:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You and whatever, D.I.D.
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_00]: you, whatever.
1:00:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, don't tell me about it.
1:00:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, and I, that should be true of all books.
1:00:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like this one definitely because it's so personal in nature.
1:00:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I also agree that this is your best book.
1:00:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's
1:00:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So good.
1:00:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I also love that this book that felt so personal to you that you like, if it's died on sub, if people didn't like it, that sort of thing would have felt more heartbreaking because it was so personal.
1:01:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Was your best seller that it was a USA today best seller that I feel like moving up to that list for you personally?
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's like it's own win.
1:01:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of fun that it was that book in the end.
1:01:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.
1:01:14
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good point.
1:01:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that it was that book in the end that got there.
1:01:17
[SPEAKER_01]: When it could have been another one, but
1:01:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the more books you write, the less precious you become about them, too.
1:01:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think you're a lot of, like, debut, chat authors that knew who were just, like, very precious about that one book.
1:01:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is, I get it.
1:01:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It's obvious your first book is your only book, like, uh, become less and less precious.
1:01:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But then this one sort of, like, broke that mold for me a little bit, just because it was so personal.
1:01:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, like, now from now on, like, I don't know.
1:01:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see, I guess, like, I might have another book that feels that way in the future, but I think, like, you get not that you don't love them all, but I think you feel a little bit less precious about each one.
1:01:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is like such a fun like contradiction that like at the same time that you're feeling less precious about them as they go along.
1:01:56
[SPEAKER_00]: You're feeling more and more sensitive about perception.
1:01:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:01:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:03
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:05
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:08
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:08
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense.
1:02:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make sense
1:02:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Fabulous.
1:02:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Fabulous, please don't ever do that again.
1:02:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so knowing that Trist is so personal to you, what is part of her that is least like you, but a part of her that you really love?
1:02:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess in the ending where I said, she actually wanted to be an engineer and she like actually enjoyed this and wanted this to be her job.
1:02:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's probably the part that was the least like me.
1:02:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, did I like that about her?
1:02:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
1:02:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess it would have been nice if I had found joy in that thing that I spent all that time at university.
1:02:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that was just part of the process too.
1:02:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
1:02:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt like a lot of my female friends who I went to university with have all kind of drifted away from engineering and it's very interesting because I don't know if it just beats you down a little bit and like I often say that when I could see the writing on the wall in terms of like the glass ceiling and how like it just wasn't important enough for me to like beat my head against it like I just I didn't love it enough to stick it out for that reason like it just wasn't interesting to me to do that whereas
1:03:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought I was until I got there and then I was like, no, I'm not, I want out of this.
1:03:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what I want to do.
1:03:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think I really admire that about her that she like stuck with it and she gave everyone the big FU at the end and I was like, I'm going to go find my passion and I'm going to tell you all off.
1:03:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to do that thing that everyone dreams of doing, but never usually doesn't real life, but she's going to go and do it at the end.
1:03:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:03:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, that email that she sent was like, Loki, my favorite part of the book.
1:03:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's like, that's everyone's dream.
1:03:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, like, everyone wants to.
1:03:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:03:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to call it a cool fuck you to that horrible employer.
1:03:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, she's going to do it because it's a book and you can, like, explore those things.
1:03:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, it's going to work out.
1:03:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
1:03:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that she phrased it, too, was so fantastic.
1:03:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Because on top of that, I love the arc of her female relationships.
1:04:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And I see female relationships, specifically not friendships, because I love the friendships that she had.
1:04:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved Molly and Lynn and Gabrielle that to juxtapose that against Diane, who all of them kind of seem like allies initially.
1:04:20
[SPEAKER_00]: that in the workplace, of course, we need to band together because this is a male-dominated field.
1:04:25
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to hype each other up and keep each other safe in this, not safe workplace.
1:04:30
[SPEAKER_00]: But in the end, Diane was the one who was, I mean, in the reality is that not everyone is there to hype you up, right?
1:04:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:04:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone is, and some women are going to be there to uphold the patriarchy that is also bringing them down.
1:04:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're seeing it everywhere right now, right?
1:04:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely everywhere.
1:04:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely everywhere.
1:04:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, ultimately, I think Diane would almost have to be that woman.
1:04:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's why she got to that position where she did, right?
1:04:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And it would be really hard.
1:04:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe it sucks for her because it was hard for her to even realize that she was trapped in that.
1:05:00
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, also, girl, like, you're grown as adult.
1:05:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see that.
1:05:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's an interesting idea because I imagine that at some point like I'm I started like then reflecting on Diane because like when we get to that point I'm like a fucking course.
1:05:15
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like this like it like that's like surprising.
1:05:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not surprised like this isn't like some huge plot twist or I'm like that's what you had like Yeah, you get there.
1:05:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean even when they have the conversation the golf cart Yeah, you think she gets it until there's a few things she says that tells you she doesn't
1:05:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, fully.
1:05:32
[SPEAKER_01]: She's not fully there.
1:05:33
[SPEAKER_00]: She was like, this is just what you have to do.
1:05:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, make certain waves, but not those waves, really, you know, like be mindful of the waves you're making.
1:05:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
1:05:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And then which sort of starts that decline in Tristan's like admiration for her.
1:05:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:05:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Then the whole scene with the
1:05:49
[SPEAKER_01]: What's his name?
1:05:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Paul.
1:05:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Hit non-her.
1:05:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:05:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And she sees it.
1:05:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, yeah.
1:05:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, wait a minute.
1:05:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the moment when she's like, I need you to be the person I always thought you were.
1:05:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she isn't.
1:06:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:06:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, I got to make her suffer a little bit.
1:06:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have to like kick her a few times.
1:06:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we run into Hannah in the bathroom just to really drive the nice thing.
1:06:12
[SPEAKER_00]: She's already down.
1:06:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not kick her?
1:06:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not?
1:06:15
[SPEAKER_00]: With a beautiful girl named Hannah.
1:06:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But I loved that about Diane.
1:06:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't love Diane.
1:06:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But I loved thinking about her and being like, I bet when she got into engineering, she was like, this is going to be great.
1:06:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be like groundbreaking in this field.
1:06:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We're only to find out that she was not in any way because she just thought that sticking to the status quo.
1:06:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, she was never going to be in the boys club, but she was going to follow the rules of the boys club.
1:06:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That they had been together.
1:06:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:06:42
[SPEAKER_00]: But it wasn't the rules of the boys club.
1:06:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the rules that they had for the girls to try to be in the boys club.
1:06:47
[SPEAKER_01]: right and then like how they make make her make the speech at the beginning right and like subtle in my right and tris sort of comments on that right and she's there but she's not really there because that's just not how it works.
1:06:59
[SPEAKER_00]: She's just kind of a set piece for all of them and so it's like you kind of feel a little bit heartbroken for her because you're like you probably felt like inspired at the beginning of your career but by the end of it you're like you made all the noises.
1:07:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes man.
1:07:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah exactly just upholding the patriarchy with
1:07:16
[SPEAKER_00]: absolutely and you wanted to be different but she she's not.
1:07:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like that makes so much sense but I love seeing her trists make all of these friends amidst this and like have real allies like landing Gabrielle who like ultimately she gets one of the positions which you're so excited about because I love I loved their little like appearance and epilogue that like they're they are great and they're having a good time which is exactly what you want to see
1:07:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So one of my favorite parts of like reading a book in general is looking back to the first line when I finish it and relate it to the last line and like kind of see the journey that we've been on and sometimes they relate really well.
1:07:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it doesn't have any sort of connection.
1:07:56
[SPEAKER_00]: We've just gone through a story.
1:07:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I got to the end and it was the idea of he was a million out of ten and then coming back to look at the first line because every time I finish a book I read the last line and then I go back and look at the first one and I was like that.
1:08:10
[SPEAKER_00]: No way.
1:08:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, this is so perfect to have this relation.
1:08:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that my, I wanted to scale one to ten and then to have Rafe be a millionaire.
1:08:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And not like on a looks perspective.
1:08:22
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
1:08:22
[SPEAKER_00]: But if he was happy, like, are you happy that she asked him?
1:08:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, that was so perfect.
1:08:29
[SPEAKER_00]: That was like one of my favorite, like I have a list of like my favorite fruits and last lines.
1:08:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And that one went on the list just because it's so perfectly encapsulated what she went through.
1:08:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Was that something you didn't intentionally or did that kind of just lamb?
1:08:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what you got to the end?
1:08:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I, I don't know, I didn't plan from the beginning, but when I got to the end and I was, and then they sort of carry that when she tells them about it and he's like, you're a thousand at it and she's always like, you have to always want up me, like, which sort of keeps heartening to their relationship.
1:08:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, yeah, yeah, the end I was like, okay, I want to include that because they've sort of made that a bit of a theme.
1:09:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:09:05
[SPEAKER_00]: No, and like of course it's intentional, but I just wondered if like from the from the beginning you're like, no, I didn't think of that from the beginning.
1:09:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, came out towards the end too.
1:09:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I I love that.
1:09:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish I was that clever.
1:09:17
[SPEAKER_00]: No, there's just something just so like like that like really like bookends the story to have like this satisfying.
1:09:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it really it really was very satisfying.
1:09:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like when you read a book and you see the title in the book.
1:09:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
1:09:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly what you said.
1:09:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But it feels like it feels like you had such an intention in the story that you were telling.
1:09:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Not that there's not if they don't relate, but it's just something about that.
1:09:42
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like my favorite thing about books is like always.
1:09:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Always just turn right back to the first line and like I wish you could have seen my face when I really stopped perfectly.
1:09:51
[SPEAKER_00]: They really did.
1:09:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just like where those like mouth drops.
1:09:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, and then like waiting because I read this in I think March and then waiting till June with my book club to be like oh my gosh you guys think I'm so excited to talk about this line with y'all like having to wait so I didn't spoil it but what are you most proud of from this book and what was the hardest to get right?
1:10:15
[SPEAKER_01]: This is proud of.
1:10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think I can, I can be the fun, like romance, the rouse delivers a silver and the tension, the angst that I really wanted while also saying something important about the world at the same time.
1:10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And it seemed very fitting that this book should come out right now.
1:10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: When the whole world is basically a shit show, everything's on fire.
1:10:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, everything's on fire that this book to me feels very much like an anthem against a lot of what's going on in the world right now where we're seeing like the EI stuff get all this like everyone getting rid of it and racing the contributions of women and people of color everywhere like
1:10:52
[SPEAKER_01]: To me it felt very kind of crazy that it would come out now and sort of so that I think like I wanted to get struck that balance between like fun and sexy and hot and like hearted but then also Saying something meaningful at the same time and I think that was my goal my aim I feel like I hit that where I wanted it to go and it was a tough balance I think like sometimes I would put stuff in and I'm like is that like
1:11:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So I need to pull that back a little bit.
1:11:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like doing, you know, being really careful and really mindful of that.
1:11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not.
1:11:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to say a fending anybody, but I just, I want to be really careful about how things were portrayed and making sure that everything was done sensitively and like.
1:11:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but with understanding that the world can be an ugly place, and I still wanted it to be sort of truthful to.
1:11:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that you struck that balance so well, especially like coming into like books that are coming out right now are really considered Beatreeds.
1:11:46
[SPEAKER_00]: They're considered like you're going to put them in your beach bag.
1:11:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to take it to the beach like the ocean in front of you read this like what you think is like going to be a soldier romance because it takes you to Hawaii, but I love a book that feels like it's transporting you someplace, but it
1:12:00
[SPEAKER_00]: really great to you in the world that you're in.
1:12:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:12:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think as romance can often be accused of just being fluffed and, you know, like it's just has no depth, which we know is not true.
1:12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:12:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That yeah, I'd like wanted to keep pushing that a little bit and be like, no, of course, this is also saying something while also being having sex, right?
1:12:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of course.
1:12:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that idea.
1:12:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's like the perfect place to do it too because it's like it's not like you're throwing softballs because like these are like terrible things that people experience in real life that you've experienced in your workplace as an engineer.
1:12:35
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's allowing this person to have this cathartic experience that you didn't have that I imagine that maybe people aren't taking it to the beach, maybe they're putting it on their audiobook on their commute to their job that they're not having a great time at and like having this cathartic experience of like
1:12:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's not a scape as I'm because you're like, oh, well, maybe I maybe I should do this, maybe I should do something else.
1:12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like empowering also.
1:12:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I really think that I think that it's the perfect sort of genre to explore that.
1:13:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that you did a really great job at that balance.
1:13:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You talked about, of course, I have not forgotten those eleven books that you were working on.
1:13:11
[SPEAKER_00]: What is something that we can anticipate from you next in this so many fun things?
1:13:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But so many fun things like why?
1:13:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I again have one, two, three, four, seven books on to contract again, all or like more recent.
1:13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So actually, if two more rom-coms coming, because that original contact was three books.
1:13:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So the next one will be currently, say, they're saying July of next year, but it will actually be at a polar bear lodge.
1:13:35
[SPEAKER_01]: In northern, I live in meant, in Manitoba, I live, which is the, in northern Churchill is that polar bear capital of the world is the world's most accessible.
1:13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Pull over a population.
1:13:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I worked for travel and a total of like a tourism board for many years.
1:13:47
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was doing when COVID hit and I started writing.
1:13:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was, I don't think anyone has ever set a romance in Churchill, Manitoba.
1:13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, he's like the grumpy law-journer and she's the travel photographer who like really needs to get a shot because her like freelance career is not going real.
1:14:01
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the theme, I guess, this is travel.
1:14:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And women are struggling with their careers.
1:14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So different though.
1:14:05
[SPEAKER_01]: from Hawaii.
1:14:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Very different like setting.
1:14:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So in horror like a grumpy sunshine dynamic, he doesn't wander there for reasons she doesn't know yet and he's like kind of a dictator and grumpy towards her.
1:14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:14:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So that will be like next year and I'm currently writing the third one right now, which will be the year after and then I actually have my first YA coming out next year.
1:14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna ask you that because I saw that on your website and I wanted to hear more about that.
1:14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So it would be a dystopian room, I don't know if we're using the term dystopian so I've been hearing it here and there and some people like it.
1:14:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I personally am a fan.
1:14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I always liked to romanticize even now.
1:14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to dystopian.
1:14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like dystopian is about to have a moment.
1:14:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I think dystopians about to have a moment.
1:14:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So I really wanted to write it and because of my contract with forever for my artifacts and stuff, I couldn't write adult.
1:14:54
[SPEAKER_01]: for anybody else.
1:14:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:14:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:14:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And because forever as published so many of my books in the last little while, they were kind of like, we can't publish you again until twenty twenty seven.
1:15:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And at first I was like, that's a long time away.
1:15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And my editor was like, I know you like to keep busy and like, yes, I do.
1:15:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:15:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a long time away.
1:15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyways, it actually worked out really nicely because Red Tower, who's the publisher who did fourth wing.
1:15:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, we're starting a new YA imprint.
1:15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: they're actually doing two one is mischief and one is mayhem and one is for sixteen and under and one is for sixteen and over which I love because that's really I don't know why YA is one like a thirteen year old and eighteen year old have nothing to do with one and only like that's always baffled me so I love this this concept of them separating you know so I'm writing for the old one for mayhem so yeah I'm doing it's a dystopian romance I'm I'm compient to gospel girl meets divergent it's got like a start it takes place I can a academy in like a future Manhattan
1:15:46
[SPEAKER_01]: way in the future and it focuses on the rich girl like on the capital girl, not the cat and his character, so like there's a good one, which was there in that regard.
1:15:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But so that I'll be coming in May of next year, that'll be a duality.
1:15:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I just signed, excepted an offer for the romance, the trilogy with forever.
1:16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: For my next adult one, that first book will come out in the fall of twenty twenty seven.
1:16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And that one is enemies to lovers and second chance.
1:16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, they like make sure each other and each other and they're faded made.
1:16:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Just for trail.
1:16:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited to try it out.
1:16:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's got, like, I've been read the hurricane wars that I don't know if you... No, but I have it.
1:16:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of my, it's basically my favorite romance.
1:16:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I love obsessed with her.
1:16:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:16:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sort of confident.
1:16:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's true enemies to lovers.
1:16:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's one where he, like, they actually hate each other.
1:16:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's not, you know, okay.
1:16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going straight up to the top of the team.
1:16:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got highly into her writing it so beautiful.
1:16:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I finished it, I was like, I'm gonna make the on my friends.
1:16:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I was...
1:16:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I like wet enters, yams.
1:16:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, hey, I loved your book.
1:16:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably thinks I'm a creepy stalker, but yeah.
1:16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, I'm coming into the Hurricane Wars meets Handmaid's Tale, because it's got a little bit of a dystopianish vibe.
1:16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's romanticity, but there's a bit of a dystopian vibe, because apparently that's my theme right now, but yeah.
1:16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically, they are faded-mates, they have been apart, and it's killing them.
1:17:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, they have to fuck or they'll die, but they hate each other.
1:17:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Me, sure.
1:17:08
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like my perfect book.
1:17:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very excited about it.
1:17:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, slightly older characters.
1:17:13
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like in their thirties instead of like really because she was like an army general and he was her second in command and he'd like kind of betrays her.
1:17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's a general man.
1:17:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like it kind of lent itself to like, slightly older characters.
1:17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:17:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I liked it because
1:17:29
[SPEAKER_01]: She can be really good at stuff.
1:17:31
[SPEAKER_01]: She's obviously like a trained like army general.
1:17:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not surprising when she's really good at fighting and all that kind of stuff.
1:17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she did all of that.
1:17:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So that would be fun.
1:17:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know.
1:17:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the market is ready for some older characters and romantic scenes.
1:17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm the market.
1:17:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I feel like all of us have grown up who read while we're all adults with kids and
1:17:51
[SPEAKER_01]: and wrinkles and we are written for the next thing so yeah so that'll be that'll be three books that first one will come in twenty twenty seven and then I don't know what we'll fit in between there but for now that's what I've got that's so much I am it's not always
1:18:09
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, there's like a lot of people like the one book a year and that's like kind of... Yeah, I know.
1:18:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's actually because the romanticie is only, I have to, it's the first drafts not even do until next August, which I'm like, for me, it feels like, eons of time, but I was writing like a whole, like, hundred and fifty thousand word books in two months, that's strange.
1:18:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it doesn't like one book a year just seems like so much time to me.
1:18:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, I'm gonna find something else to do in between there, but for now that's, that's for sure what's coming.
1:18:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited for the Romantic Sea for next year.
1:18:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that, do you say, twenty twenty seven?
1:18:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:18:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:18:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Next year will be the the YAs and one more Rom calm and then twenty twenty seven will be the last Rom calm and the first Romantic Sea.
1:18:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what else.
1:18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the so will the doology will like the second one come out in twenty twenty seven.
1:18:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not they haven't decided that I probably like late twenty six early twenty seven.
1:19:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
1:19:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would be I don't they haven't picked the day for that.
1:19:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I am so excited.
1:19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I like if I thought that you were we're just going to talk about the YA disobey and because I saw that on your website, but like there is so much to look forward to and I am so excited.
1:19:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited for you and everything to come feel like you just blew my mind.
1:19:22
[SPEAKER_00]: like there's nothing I love and I love that you're like in like you talked about being in boot camp like a couple times a week and I was like oh I wonder if that's gonna like lend-in to a future book of hers and then hearing that she's an army general I was like yeah I mean she's a lot tougher than I am
1:19:38
[SPEAKER_00]: see that's what you get to do.
1:19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you get to research and then you're fired to the person the version of the person you wish you were.
1:19:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I know and like to know there's betrayal and like faded me it's like just the more you describe that I was like can I have it and I know and actually I have to I like I had to when you you submit an option you don't have to write the whole book like every contract has sort of like they get to look at your next yeah whatever the parameter and in my case was like the next adult romanticy and you don't have to write the whole book you just have to write like an outline and like a bit of it and outline is
1:20:07
[SPEAKER_01]: terrible when your pants are having to write all like the outline for all three I'm like oh he's gonna kill me but okay I sat down and I got something on the paper I was like these are the best pages I've ever written my friend my my good friend she's like I don't know how you keep getting better she said I was like thank you I'm excited about it yeah that is so oh my gosh I literally I don't know what to do and I'm gonna be in a reading song until twenty seven waiting for that
1:20:31
[SPEAKER_01]: There'll be, I know, it was like, twenty doing seven.
1:20:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, listen, it will be here before you know it.
1:20:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:20:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.
1:20:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
1:20:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm excited.
1:20:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So excited for everything to come.
1:20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm finishing the last of the night fire quartet.
1:20:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I might be trip next month.
1:20:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So knowing that there's nothing but more Nisha coming my way.
1:20:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to keep everyone fed.
1:20:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
1:20:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
1:20:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
1:20:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank the Lord for that.
1:20:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never stopped writing.
1:20:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, don't worry.
1:20:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not planning to.
1:20:56
[SPEAKER_00]: As you all keep reading, I'll keep writing.
1:20:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh boy, we'll like keep reading.
1:20:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, there's like two things in this conversation that I'm not going to be able to get over and that was the eleven books and this betrayal faded me.
1:21:08
[SPEAKER_00]: It's romanticity that it's a fucker they'll die.
1:21:12
[SPEAKER_00]: There's literally nothing more that I want than that right now.
1:21:14
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I want for Christmas.
1:21:17
[SPEAKER_01]: This was twice, twice over.
1:21:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh my gosh.
1:21:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot wait.
1:21:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Nisha, I have one last question for you.
1:21:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You have so many books coming out and there's so much time for reading between them.
1:21:28
[SPEAKER_00]: What is a book you would recommend for Gilmore Girls fans?
1:21:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I think love is a war song by Danica Navo.
1:21:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I just read that one.
1:21:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved it.
1:21:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So good.
1:21:38
[SPEAKER_01]: She's great.
1:21:39
[SPEAKER_01]: She's so talented and I gobbled that one up.
1:21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I read that one and when we went to Mexico I sat and I read the whole thing covered a cover by the pool like within hours.
1:21:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
1:21:48
[SPEAKER_01]: That was great and yeah, I feel like you said you want like women struggling women sort of like trying to find their place.
1:21:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she very much did that in that book and she has her like hot and low interest to just like a good guy.
1:22:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just
1:22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: He kind of reminds me of Luke, I guess.
1:22:03
[SPEAKER_01]: He really does.
1:22:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I feel like the idea of like the mom sending her there, but like she hasn't talked to her mom in a long time.
1:22:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that all like that whole family dynamic really fits into that.
1:22:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved that one of her inspirations for that was the Hannah Montana movie.
1:22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
1:22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
1:22:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not and at the end it had that like I was like in tears because it was like that that that happy cheesy happy ending wherever everything works out right and they have the big concert and everything works and it's everything you could have before so like that movie remember from your yeah, she told
1:22:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I really got that feeling.
1:22:36
[SPEAKER_00]: She nailed that and so I totally agree, which is love is a war song by Nyan Danakanava, which comes out in July.
1:22:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Perfect recommendation.
1:22:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Nisha, thank you so much for joining me today.
1:22:47
[SPEAKER_00]: If y'all have not read, not say for work, definitely pick that up.
1:22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you have, Nisha has so many books in her romanticy series that you can read and so many books coming up for us to look forward to.
1:22:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Nisha, thank you so much for chatting.
1:22:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me.
1:23:00
[SPEAKER_00]: This is look great.
1:23:05
[SPEAKER_00]: My book Loving Besties, thank you so much for joining me today for another episode of Gilmour to Read.
1:23:09
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to join the book club conversation head on over to Patreon where you can join for free.
1:23:13
[SPEAKER_00]: For September, we are reading a book which is guide to magical in keeping by Singuma and Dana.
1:23:18
[SPEAKER_00]: My next guest will be Ashley Boston, but until then, happy reading friends.