Latest / Adapting: The Future of Jewish Education / The Fight for Jewish Inclusion in Public Schools

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The Fight for Jewish Inclusion in Public Schools · Adapting: The Future of Jewish Education

• 0:00
  David Bryfman: The shine a light on anti semitism. Civic Courage Award is now open for nominations. This is your opportunity to recognize someone who is actively combating the rising tide of anti semitism.
• 0:09
  David Bryfman: This prestigious award celebrates individuals across eight categories, including students and educators, offering a $2,000 prize and national recognition. If you have someone to nominate, visit shine the light on.com forward slash awards, to nominate someone whose activism spreads light by November 25 Hi everybody, and we're recording today's episode of adapting on october 29 2024 and today's a bit of a change in direction for some of our previous conversations, we're talking to a Jewish educator in a public school environment who, especially in the last year, has decided to take a stand against some of the incidents of anti semitic or perceived anti semitism by by teachers and other students in her school, and also been able to make systemic change where necessary in the New York Public School System. Why is this so important for all of us to be talking about, because the majority of Jewish youth in North America and dare I say, around the world, attend schools in their in their public sphere, and that is where our educators are feeling many of the issues that are taking place, especially in a post October 7 world they're often scared of what they're talking about and how to talk about the issues, especially for history and social studies teachers like, how is it possible to be objective on these issues? This is the fabric of the world in which we live in, and I think as a Jewish community, we need to be as committed to the education of all of our students, no matter where they are receiving it, to be aware of the challenges that people are having, and also to really shine a light on some of the real success stories where it's taking place for individual educators who are really making a difference, for not just the Jewish students in their schools, but for all students.
• 1:47
  David Bryfman: And remembering importantly, and Shaina talks about this for many, many students, the first time they will meet and have interactions with a Jewish student or a Jewish educator is first and foremost in their public school environment. So this episode is one which speaks about specific examples, but I think it's got broad implications for all of us, and we can all gain something from this really remarkable, impressive conversation with Shayna Dworkin. So thank you, as always, for listening today, this is adapting the future of Jewish education, a podcast from the Jewish education project where we explore the big questions, challenges and successes that define Jewish education. I'm David breifman.
• 2:32
  David Bryfman: Shayna Dworkin is a 15 year veteran social studies teacher in the New York public school system, and I'm not going to give too much more of a bio, because as soon as we get to chatting, you'll understand exactly why I've asked Shayna to join us here on adapting. So Shaina, thanks so much for joining us.
• 2:46
  Unknown: Thank you so much for inviting me. And we really excited to be here.
• 2:50
  David Bryfman: So just tell the audience a bit about your your current job, I mean the official job that you actually do. Yeah.
• 2:55
  David Bryfman: So
• 2:56
  Unknown: I am a New York City public school teacher. I teach in a small public school, and I teach ninth grade global history, and I'm also the advisor of the Jewish student union. And
• 3:05
  David Bryfman: how long have you been doing that work?
• 3:07
  Unknown: I have been in the system for almost 20 years now.
• 3:11
  David Bryfman: So you and I met each other first at a at a public forum where you were talking about almost anything other than social studies and and Global Studies in a school.
• 3:21
  David Bryfman: So talk to us a bit about what other roles you've taken on recently and how that's come to fruition.
• 3:27
  Unknown: You know, I'm a social studies teacher by training, but one of my passions as an educator is creating inclusive classroom spaces, and so that's what brought me into that conversation where I met you, and it was right after October 7, but the conversations were already brewing about anti semitism in schools, and personally, I spent a lot of time doing diversity and equity initiatives, leading the equity team at one of the largest high schools in the country. The conversations were not necessarily focused on anti semitism, but it's always been something that's been important to me specifically.
• 4:06
  David Bryfman: So we'll talk a bit about what happened after October 7. But the reality is for you, your your Jewish awakening as a social studies teacher in a public school was prior to prior to that day. So talk a bit about some of the things that raise your own consciousness about being a Jewish educator in a public school.
• 4:24
  Unknown: Yeah, that's right. So my Jewish identity was always driving my work for inclusive classrooms and for the values that are centered in diversity initiatives. So I was doing trainings through the Department of Education as a lead social studies teacher and culturally responsive education. I went to a training called courageous conversations about how to have, you know, these difficult conversations, and I started to notice that anti semitism was never part of the conversation.
• 4:55
  Unknown: In fact, at one of the trainings that I went to, the facilitator was talking about Charlottesville. All and how, you know, awful it was. He never mentioned Jews or anti semitism.
• 5:05
  Unknown: And I went up to him after, and I said, you know, I understand, you know, we're here to talk about race, but there was an opportunity to mention that. And he was just like, that's not what we're here for. So that was part of, you know, this growing awareness. And then, unfortunately, I had a bad experience with an administrator who specifically targeted me because of my identity and my Jewish identity. And that was a real personal wake up moment, and started to make me think about what's going on in my school with the students in that in my particular school setting.
• 5:35
  Unknown: So it was kind of a slow awakening, I would say, before October 7, and an awareness that in these kind of progressive spaces, I couldn't really show up as my full self. Nobody was saying no Zionists allowed, or anything about Jews not being welcomed. But there was an undertone where I just didn't feel like I could be comfortable anymore.
• 6:01
  David Bryfman: So the New York public school system has a long history of Jewish educators, Jewish administrators. In fact, many of the laws relating to for example, like Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur being holidays in New York schools is because largely of the Jewish faculty over time.
• 6:14
  David Bryfman: But I digress. Can you talk a bit about some of the specifics of what made you feel marginalized as a as a Jewish educator in these schools, or is that? I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but what can you talk about? Yeah,
• 6:26
  Unknown: so I so that's the thing. Is that, you know, every Jewish teacher in has a different experience within their schools, because there are so many schools in New York City. So you know, my personal experience was really related to, you know, a specific person in a specific situation. But overall, I could say that the marginalization is that when you show up to these spaces that are so called inclusive, and they're not meaning a lot of these trainings were run by the DOE, but not doe administrators, so they hired people to come and do these trainings, it wasn't that they were saying anything particular. It was kind of more the absence of what was being talked about and this oppressor oppressed dynamic. So I can give you another example of having to line up according to your white privilege, and then having to form these affinity groups. So I'm sitting at a table with all of these other white teachers sharing our experiences, and I'm one of the only people who has been bullied or teased because of my Jewish identity. None of the other people at my table, the other, quote, unquote, white teachers, had that experience, and that was kind of that wake up moment, that feeling of marginalization, like I don't belong in this space, and I don't belong at those other tables, right? And it got to the point where, like, two years ago, I did another one of these trainings, and I finally said to the facilitator, I said, Look, I'll sit at that table with the white teachers, because they understand, you know, I understand how this work gets done in these spaces, but I'm not comfortable with that anymore. And he appreciated that I voiced that. So I definitely had these experiences. But I don't want to make it seem like, you know, all over the New York City public school system, there's this ideology that's being pedaled down. It really varies, I think, from space to space, but the overall ideologies of the oppressed and oppressors and that kind of ideology is around, and it's clear that Jews are not fitting into that dynamic.
• 8:32
  David Bryfman: All right, so we are going pretty deep, pretty quickly, into some pretty murky territory. Let's but let's you and I take it for an assumption and correct me if my assumption is wrong, that you and I both believe that diversity, equity, inclusion as a concept is a good thing in public school education, that all people, regardless of their ethnicity, race, religion, should be made to feel welcome in the public school environment.
• 8:56
  Unknown: Absolutely, that is exactly you know what I am committed to doing and why I was asked to speak at that panel.
• 9:03
  Unknown: And your
• 9:04
  David Bryfman: point here is that the DEI movement, so to speak, or the DEI curriculum professional development, were often adopted in particularly in public school environments, and we now know this across the country, often failed or omitted. We're not sure whether it's intentional or implicit, the Jews did not fit under the category of a diverse ethnic group in American society, which led to a whole lot of these issues beginning to evolve
• 9:30
  Unknown: exactly and I absolutely said I believe in the diversity and inclusion values, but I wasn't experiencing that personally when I went to these trainings, and then
• 9:44
  David Bryfman: October 7 happens, and the dynamic begins to change, and you no longer can remain silent with what's taking place around you. So maybe describe to the audience what took place for you around and after October 7, that led to your so called away. In these events,
• 10:01
  Unknown: yeah, October 7, I would say for me, personally, and I'm only speaking for myself. I'm not speaking on behalf of the Department of Education or any organization.
• 10:12
  Unknown: For me, it was very personal awakening. Because not only did I consider myself a progressive educator, an anti racist educator, I mean, I really went all in on of the this. I was doing community organizing, you know, where I live, I was full in on this. And October 7 kind of really woke me up to what was happening in the public school system, not just in New York City, but really what we found out, like you said, is really kind of happening everywhere, because I started to talk to more teachers, and we were hearing a lot of the same things and sharing a lot of the same stories, where we had incidents in our school where we felt targeted, where colleagues were saying things or things that were showing up in lesson plans.
• 10:56
  Unknown: And so October 7, for me, personally, made me realize that this is a problem is a lot bigger than me and my personal experience. But around the beginning of November, we started to see union UFT members organize. This is there's a caucus within our union called more, and they're a very progressive caucus. And then there's a group of New York City teachers not affiliated with the DOE, but you know, assuming many of them are doe teachers called Nico, and they started to organize a walkout, and that's really what got a lot of us engaged. And we said, we have a problem, and that's really what kind of launched me in the forefront of speaking up and saying, I can't do this and or this can't happen. So I had met the chancellor, actually, Chancellor banks, at this panel, and then I followed up. I sent an email to him. I didn't hear anything back. So that's when me and some other teachers decided that we need to speak up,
• 11:58
  David Bryfman: all right, so I can skip right to the conclusion here, where Shayna has become one of the leading voices in fighting against anti semitism in New York public schools. But before I get straight to the punch line, let's go through this in a bit more detail. So describe to the audience what a walkout actually is and what it's intended to do.
• 12:13
  Unknown: So you know, over the years, there have been a variety of different student walkouts for climate for gun safety, so the idea is that students around New York City, public and private schools walk out of their classes. It's an act of civil disobedience. Essentially, they walk out of their their classes. They gather together off site in protest, and
• 12:37
  David Bryfman: in general, that's probably a good example of teaching young people freedom of speech and the right to protest that of itself is a good thing, I would assume, yeah, I'm
• 12:45
  Unknown: definitely not opposed to civil disobedience, and students do have the right to do that. Our issue was the adults that were getting involved and promoting this, and the contractual obligations that teachers have in terms of doing political work on their school time, but also the materials that they were publishing that were chanting about Free Palestine from the river to the sea. We don't want Zionists here. I don't have it all in front of me, but this is all public knowledge. They've posted this out there, and that, to me, is a problem when you have kids being encouraged to go out and chant these things by educators that they trust. And in fact, we we do have evidence that students who went with a teacher who we don't know if the teacher walked out, we don't know if the teacher met them there was holding up a sign of a trash can with the Star of David in it, a New York City public school student. And
• 13:49
  David Bryfman: just to be clear, at least for the initial walkouts in New York public schools, there were actually no consequences, either for the teacher or for the students who worked out. And I think one of the definitions of civil disobedience means it needs to be some form of consequence in order for it to actually be disobedient. And the students were given a free pass on these to attend these protests, these walkouts, yeah. Well,
• 14:09
  Unknown: so that's, you know, I mean, that was kind of the culture at my old school. It was kind of like, okay, like you're, you know, we'll mark you late or whatever. But I think what for us, what we were focused on, is the accountability piece that what is anti semitism? What is political activity? So the schools can enforce the code how they want. But is it okay for New York City students and teachers to be promoting a walkout that is promoting anti semitic ideas? And that's what we were trying to get the Chancellor's team to really understand what is anti semitism and how it's showing up in the form of anti Zionism in our public schools.
• 14:50
  David Bryfman: So Shaina stands up with a few of her colleagues, and obviously everybody says, Thanks for enlightening us, and the whole situation changes straight away, overnight. Now.
• 14:59
  Unknown: Yes, of course.
• 15:01
  David Bryfman: No joke. So what happens to you as a teacher, a respected veteran teacher in the public schools, when you do raise your voice to these issues?
• 15:08
  Unknown: So you know, this is really my first time doing this kind of work within the doe. So it was definitely a learning experience. We did find, I personally found the Chancellor's team to be receptive. We had a press conference on the steps of tweed, and shortly after, we were able to get a meeting with the Chancellor's team, with the UJA, the Jewish education project, helping us get to that table. I on our own, it would have been very hard were the worker bees in this large bureaucracy, but they did sit down with us, and it was a productive meeting. We laid out our concerns, we gave evidence.
• 15:51
  Unknown: I handed over evidence to the deputy chancellor of safety and security of a girl who was being targeted and bullied online in a high school some of the worst things I've ever seen in my life. And they were very receptive, and I felt like they were open. That opened the door to more meetings. And we we tried as hard as we could as teachers to lay out our concerns, to provide them with the evidence that we could, to show them this is a demonstrated problem, and then Chancellor came out with his meeting the moment plan, as many people might know, which incorporated feedback that we asked for, not everything, but it certainly addressed some of our concerns.
• 16:33
  Unknown: There's still a lot more that needs to get done, but it was a starting point in getting systemic change, which is really what we need.
• 16:44
  David Bryfman: Tell us a few of those stories. Tell us a few of the things that you handed over as evidence. What you can share.
• 16:49
  David Bryfman: Because when you talk at a high level about the conflation of anti semitism and anti Zionism, when you talk about teachers encouraging a walkout, when you talk about all the things that you're speaking about, you internalize that as one level of understanding at the moment at which you began to personalize these stories. And it wasn't just one, it wasn't just two.
• 17:06
  David Bryfman: There were literally dozens of stories that you shared and could continue sharing. It takes on a different tenor, because you realize that each one of these stories is about an individual an individual child, an individual student, an individual teacher. So tell us some of those stories, if you can.
• 17:22
  Unknown: Yeah. So a lot of these stories, you know, have been documented, and many of them have been exposed in the media, because the public deserves a right to know what's going on in our schools. So you know, the example of this girl in a high school in Brooklyn, in class, kind of behind her back students, girls would be saying things like, we're Hamas, we're going to come and get you. And then they took it online and used sexual violence threats against her and targeted her on Instagram that that was a very egregious, you know, example, we have teachers who are writing lesson plans about Aaron Bush now, the protester who committed suicide, who burned himself, to what extent was this a turning point in the Israel Gaza war and all of the links were about how awful Israel is, more lessons like that the knock, but presented as factual information, not asking the students to come to conclusions on anything. I personally had a friend who was in a school where kids rioted protest. The DOE says these kids were running rampant through the school with red paint on their hands, banging on the doors she's hiding. This is not Hillcrest.
• 18:42
  Unknown: This is a different school, my friend, you know, scared.
• 18:45
  Unknown: Obviously we, many of us, are familiar with the Hillcrest situation. And that was, again, one of the earlier incidents back in November that really, really gave us momentum and the urgency of what we're doing. We get swastikas written on, you know, in school bathrooms, kids being targeted. A lot of stuff is happening online, where they're, you know, fake announcements for Jewish clubs, and they're targeting the Jewish kids. I
• 19:12
  David Bryfman: guess what doesn't make sense to me is that all of these incidents are reportable. So a kid, a kid or a teacher, experiences one of these things, and you would expect there's an official way for someone to actually, you know, report on that particular event. The students are then suspended or expelled. The teachers who, you know, teach egregious curriculum are reprimanded or whatever it might be, and that's an end to it, because, you know, this is a school, and it's part of an institution, and there's a system. Why didn't that happen straight away? What? What's, what's taking place here? And, you know, I don't want to. Maybe I do. I'm not sure if this had happened to any other ethnic, religious or racial group, the response would have been different. So in your mind, I think maybe I'm wrong. We hope, but I
• 19:53
  Unknown: don't. Unfortunately, that has not always been my experience either. But that's a great question. It's a great question, because we still want to know the answers. I mean, we've been asking this question.
• 20:03
  Unknown: We you know, we think we have some ideas why this is not happening. So number one, parents are afraid. The number one thing we hear is that the parents are afraid that there's going to be retribution, especially in the high school level, that kids are not going to get college recommendations, they're not going to get the schedule they want. So parents are scared. In some cases, there's not a lot of other Jewish students, so they don't want to draw attention to their child a lot of times, what I found in my last school, because I will say, thankfully, you know my school, I've not experienced anything like what I experienced at my previous school. So kids are a little skeptical that anything is going to change.
• 20:46
  Unknown: Sometimes they're not sure that if they speak up, it's going to be worth it. They don't trust that it's going to get taken care of. So that happens a lot.
• 20:55
  Unknown: I mean, I definitely know of one incident that was reported where kids did go and they reported it to the guidance counselor, I believe, and then, or the maybe, was the dean, but the student never heard from the Dean again.
• 21:05
  Unknown: So people need training. That's kind of one of the things that we have. We were talking to the DOE about the deans, the RFA, the respect for all counselors.
• 21:16
  Unknown: These are people who are there to respect the Chancellor's regulations on this kind of discrimination, they need to have training on what anti semitism is in all of its forms.
• 21:28
  Unknown: We were guaranteed by Mark rampersant that when there's a swastika, it is dealt with. And I, I have, we have seen that, but that's not what we're dealing with anymore. It's not just the swastikas. So that's one piece of it, and that's kind of the problem, in a way, is that the alliance team that I was working with kind of filled this gap. People were coming to us to report it because they felt safer doing that, and that was how we were able to expose and collect and understand the level of what's happening in the public schools. The second point that I want to make is that the reporting procedure is very Byzantine. It's not very clear when I had to file my own discrimination papers granted.
• 22:11
  Unknown: It was during COVID. It was very confusing about who to file with, where to file. The DOE did just roll out a reporting hotline, which, you know, those of us who have been advocating for accountability definitely see that as a win. It's not a perfect system, because teachers can't report anonymously, but parents and families can, and that was something that parents had been asking for so that hopefully will help with the reporting problem. The third part is oversight. Schools are different, but most of the time, especially in the high school level, teachers are professionals. They have autonomy over their classroom, in their curriculum, because we should be treated like professionals, right?
• 22:56
  Unknown: Unfortunately, that leaves room in some schools for these lessons to slip through the cracks, and that is something I think the Department of Education really needs to figure out how to balance the autonomy of teachers, the trust in teachers, but also to know what's going on in their classrooms. So
• 23:17
  David Bryfman: many questions for you, okay, do you believe that the New York Public School System is anti semitic.
• 23:22
  Unknown: I absolutely do not believe it is anti semitic. I do believe there are systemic problems within the Department of Education, just like there are in our larger society, and it just mirrors that. But I don't think the leadership is anti semitic. That's I don't, I don't hold by that. I don't just believe that the whole system is anti semitic, but there are problems, and there, there are some major problems that absolutely need to be addressed.
• 23:50
  Unknown: And I think there are blind spots when it comes to anti semitism. And I think, I do think that does have to do with leadership. And you mentioned the Jewish teachers are foundational to the Department of Education, if you look at the leadership positions, not always the case. So who's making the decisions? Who's designing the training? Are there Jews involved in that? That's what that was, again, some of the questions that we tried to get the Department of Education to think about to help improve the situation, not to admonish them, but to say, where can we do better? You know, where are your blind spots?
• 24:29
  David Bryfman: I've heard some teachers in public schools, especially those who teach politics, global history, social studies, say that I need to avoid October 7 and what's taking place in Israel, Palestine, Gaza. It's just too complicated. I can't possibly get it right, therefore I'm not going to talk about it at all.
• 24:44
  David Bryfman: And they'll, they'll talk about Russia and Ukraine, because that's a heck of a lot easier.
• 24:49
  David Bryfman: It's fascinating that teachers are, I think, taking this stance because of all of these concerns that they have, maybe they're being directed to avoid it.
• 24:56
  David Bryfman: Maybe they feel like they can't win, or they can.
• 30:00
  Unknown: Spaces, because the kids need them, they need support, and they need teachers who can support them through this time.
• 30:07
  David Bryfman: Shaina, I'm going to ask you a question you can choose to ignore it. Have you lost or have you strengthened your commitment to public school education? I mean, I'm asking this question because I'm going to guess that it's crossed your mind that it could be a heck of a lot easier for you to go work for a Jewish Day School. And I'm sure some Jewish day schools have tried to recruit you as well, and that your state firm to New York public school education. So talked a bit about your commitment to public school education, yeah.
• 30:31
  Unknown: Well, I would say that I would love a tuition break.
• 30:34
  Unknown: That would be lovely, but I am a product of public schools. My mother was a public school teacher as well. And I think more than ever we need Jewish students and Jewish teachers in our public schools. You know, this is a big conversation that is happening on all these chats, you know, should that all the Jews go to the private schools, you know? And I believe we need to be in these spaces. This is where some kids meet a Jewish person for the first time. So I am fully committed to public education. I think it every kid in New York City deserves a quality education. And the beauty of it is that you are learning in a diverse environment and engaging. And I really believe that our education system, like my training. I went to teachers college. It's a social justice program that I was fully in. I'm going to be a social studies teacher for social justice. And I really had that shift that it's not my job to teach these kids to be social justice. You know, warriors, I want my kids to be empowered, yes, but I want them to believe in liberal values of democracy, of freedom, of equality of rights, and that has to happen in our public schools. We cannot see this space. We are fighting against Nazi like ideology in our schools, misinformation, disinformation, like I said, you know, just presenting kids with one side of the story. We can't see those spaces. So I think more than ever, not just Jewish teachers need to stay there. But I've said this before to anyone who will listen to me, is that the Jewish education space, the Jewish Agency space, has to invest in our public schools because a majority of Jewish kids in this country are not in these schools. They are in public schools. So we have to remember that Jewish education happens. What meaning I'm teaching Jewish history tomorrow. Actually, my lesson tomorrow is about the Jewish nation and the Jewish people and the attachment to Israel and the Assyrian captivity and how that impacted them. I insert that because I want them to understand. And then later, next week, I'm going to follow up with a lesson about Cyrus and use the book of Ezra and other sources to take a look at and corroborate history. So we cannot see this space to people who do have agendas. And unfortunately, there are those people. There are a lot of amazing public school teachers out there that I've worked with.
• 33:04
  Unknown: Most of them, almost 100% of them have been fantastic. But unfortunately, we know that there are teachers out there who think they're doing the right thing, but it's really, it really is scary about what's happening. I
• 33:18
  David Bryfman: want to ask you another question, and then we could just digress and keep talking, but our listeners eventually need to turn off their podcast and go continue cooking dinner. I want to talk a bit about objectivity, especially as a social studies teacher, like, what you just said is not objective. Like you're bringing your personal viewpoints, your personal pieces, to your curriculum, to your outlines. Like, is it such a thing as an objective social studies teacher, is that what we're looking for is subjectivity, something we should just embrace. And does it only work when we agree with someone's subjectivity and it's when we get upset with the other side, so to speak, then it becomes, oh, no, all history needs to be objective,
• 33:52
  Unknown: right? Oh, I mean, see, that's part of the challenge. Is that there are facts and there's facts that can't be changed, but there are narratives, and narratives are often not based on facts. They're based on feelings, but they also play a role in how we understand the past. So you know, for example, there's a lot of debate within the Jewish education space. And you know, K through 12 public schools, should we teach dual narrative? Should we teach the Palestinian narrative. And some people think no, because narratives are not necessarily factual. So there's different opinions about that, and there's, I've seen different ways to do it, but this is the challenge. I fully believe, you know, that we should embrace hard history. So I know, you know we talked about the DEI before. I like the idea is not the ideology, right? The same thing with this hard history concept. We cannot shy away from hard history. It is our job to teach students how to understand the two sides of a conflict by presenting them with the facts and, in cases, the narratives.
• 34:57
  Unknown: Now here's the question, though.
• 35:00
  Unknown: Kind of what you brought up, we would never, ever ask if Hitler was a good leader, right? We would never ask our students to debate if slavery was good or bad. We have to have things that we agree on in history that are bad or in the past. And that is where I think it the training comes in, the training comes in, and having those conversations as a department, and having the administrator, you know, the or the teacher leader, have that training to navigate that and to train the teachers on this.
• 35:33
  Unknown: Because you can get it really wrong and you can get it right.
• 35:37
  Unknown: And I'll admit I made mistakes along the way, you know, because there are things that I believe are are important, that students need to know. And then I said, You know what? Maybe it's a little bit too leading, but this is one of the challenges of being a social studies teacher.
• 35:50
  Unknown: But I can tell you know, for example, this, you know, examples of is Israel committing a genocide. You see a lot of those lesson plans or ethnic cleansing, they're using the terminology ethnic cleansing in a misleading way. And the question I would have to that teacher is, well, you know, what's your agenda here? You know, what's the intention, what's your learning goals? I think that's kind of the questions we need to be asking these teachers, because is it to get the students to think a certain way, and we don't want the students to come away thinking that ethnic cleansing is a good thing, right? Like that's not on the table, but we need to get them to understand how it's happened when it's happened. We have to have those conversations.
• 36:33
  David Bryfman: I'll tell you.
• 36:33
  David Bryfman: For me, one of the most complex phrases in recent months has been the right side of history.
• 36:39
  David Bryfman: The people come to me saying we're teaching about the genocide in Gaza because this is the right side of history. And just like you said before, when we're teaching about the Civil Rights in New York public school systems, we weren't bringing in the Ku Klux Klan to speak about the other, so called other side, and giving them legitimacy somewhere in this whole discussion, in this whole past year. And I think one of the biggest pain points we face as Jewish community is we've lost control over many aspects of what you've eloquently put as not just the narrative. We've lost control over some of the facts as well. And in our school system, it's being manipulated by some against Jewish students.
• 37:10
  David Bryfman: And I'm just like, so thankful that someone like yourself is able to stand up and literally, to highlight what needs to be done and your your indications before about some of the incremental changes that you've made, sometimes even impacting the system as a whole, are truly remarkable. And I think you should take a moment and pause and just like reflect on what you've been able to teach. As someone said to me, as just a teacher, as if just a teacher is a minimization of someone's work. So really credit to you and all of the work. You didn't have to do this. You didn't have to stand up. No,
• 37:43
  Unknown: I didn't, but I have a hard time staying quiet. It's always been one of my quote, unquote, bad qualities. But I do want to say, and I want you know that it's not just me. You know, I have no problem raising my voice. I'm really good at kind of galvanizing, but there are a lot of people who are doing this work day in and day out. I'm not going to name them all publicly, but the women of the New York City public Alliance who are leading that, Karen and tovo, for example, I mean, they are putting in hours of uncompensated work. There's other teachers, parents. We've had students, and the beautiful thing now is that we're connecting to other teachers around the country, and it took a maybe a year, but the movement is growing, and I'm I'm hopeful, but I know we have a lot to do, and it can't just be one teacher here or one teacher there. We need the Jewish community to get involved in their local districts especially support the, you know, the public schools, and this is a societal problem, because our public schools, you know, they train future leaders. So I appreciate, you know, I appreciate that, but I really am appreciative also, of all the people that have that are doing this work and that have inspired me to keep going when we hit those roadblocks.
• 39:03
  David Bryfman: Shana, is there an educator in your life that you're able to pay tribute to someone who's helped create you into the incredible role model that you are today? Oh,
• 39:11
  Unknown: thank you, absolutely.
• 39:11
  Unknown: Mr. Davies, you keep saying, call me Mark, but Mr. Davies was like the cool social studies teacher. Kind of look like Marty McFly, but he actually wasn't my classroom teacher, but he was my Amnesty International advisor.
• 39:26
  Unknown: So when I was 15, I got interested in Amnesty International through the Tibetan human rights issue, and Mr. Davies advised me for three years in this club, and he really made me feel like my voice mattered. He believed in me, he coached me, but he let me lead, and I absolutely would not be here today if it were not for Mr. Davies, and he really inspired me to become a teacher and to be the kind of teacher that I needed at that time because I was bullied in eighth grade for being Jewish. Ish actually really bad, like I was physically accosted, and not one teacher spoke up that I knew of.
• 40:07
  Unknown: I didn't hear of any teacher speaking up. One teacher once asked me if I was okay, but I never felt like I had a teacher on my side until Mr. Davies
• 40:16
  David Bryfman: Shaina. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on adapting. Thank you for all the work that you do. Thank you for your commitment to the students of New York and beyond, and your voice is being heard loud and clear. And I just wish you. And now to be totally transparent, we're working in a similar space now to make sure that we can, we can bring about systemic changes to what you're talking about, but the teachers are really the essence of all of the education taking place, and without people like yourself, we couldn't even be dreaming of a better world in which to live. So really, thank you so much for all that you do,
• 40:46
  Unknown: absolutely. And I'm just gonna add in there, if I can, that I really want to thank the Jewish education project.
• 40:51
  Unknown: Also the New York Education Initiative has really given me hope that we can make change through working together as a Jewish community, and so you know that that work that the Jewish education project has been doing is really going to be essential to making the changes we need.
• 41:10
  David Bryfman: Today's episode of adapting was produced by Dina nussenbaum and Miranda Lapides.
• 41:12
  David Bryfman: The show's executive producers are myself, Karen Cummins and nessa lieben. Our show is engineered and edited by Nathan j1 of njv media. If you enjoyed today's episode of adapting, please share it with a friend, especially someone who might send their child to public school, because I think they need to hear about the work that Shane is doing, and if there are any problems occurring with them, that they know how to reach out to others to try and bring about some change in their schools as well. To learn more about the Jewish education project, visit us at Jewish edproject.org, there you can learn more about our mission history and our staff. We're a proud partner of UGA Federation of New York. Thank you always for listening today. You.