Latest / Complex Kids, Simple Solutions / Cyndi Abundabar Ting — When Emotional Disability Is the Missing Piece

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Cyndi Abundabar Ting — When Emotional Disability Is the Missing Piece · Complex Kids, Simple Solutions

• speaker-0: Welcome to Complex Kids Simple Solutions, the podcast for parents raising complex and neurodivergent kids who are doing their best in systems that don't always make things easy. I'm Michelle Shoayde, founder of Special Education Concierge, a mom to a complex kid, a speaker, and an advocate. This space isn't about perfection. It's about real life, the hard days, the small wins. the moments where you wonder if you're doing enough, and the moments where you realize you are. Here we talk honestly, share practical insight, and simplify what feels overwhelming, one conversation at a time. You are your child's hero. Welcome to Complex Kids Simple Solutions. Today we have Cindy Ting and she is a dynamic Filipina American who is a mom, seasoned special education teacher, community organizer, and entrepreneur. While her son was going through his autism assessments, Cindy realized she had similar challenges growing up. Late diagnosed at age 48, Cindy is stepping into her neuro-spicy superpowers and educating others how to as well. A recovering overachiever and imposter syndrome survivor, Cindy helps adults self-regulate to co-regulate and teaches young people to use authentic intelligence to achieve their goals. If parenting feels heavier than you expected, if the questions keep coming and the answers feeling clear, or if you're caring more than most people see, welcome. This is Complex Kids, Simple Solutions, a podcast for parents raising complex and neurodivergent kids who want clarity, confidence, and support that actually makes sense. I'm Michelle Shoaiti, founder of Special Education Concierge. formerly known as wisdom for complex kids, a speaker, an advocate, a mom who lives this life and someone who helps parents navigate it. No labels required, no perfect parenting expected, just real conversations, practical perspective and reminders that you're not alone. Let's get into today's episode. Hi everyone, welcome back to Complex Kids Simple Solutions. We're here today with Cindy Ting and I'm actually very excited about this because she's a personal friend. she, Cindy comes in with like a wealth of knowledge because she's been a special education teacher. So welcome Cindy. speaker-1: Thanks, Michelle, for having me your podcast. I enjoy being here. And yes, I bring 20 years of special education as an instructional aid and as a teacher and also a parent myself of a child with special needs. So it's been quite the journey. speaker-0: Yeah, mean, ⁓ you know, I have for the listeners, like I have some ⁓ core group of mom friends and somehow they're all so awesome because one is a teacher, the other one is the special education director, the other one is a psychologist and the list goes on and on and on. And I've been so lucky to have these women in my life. And this is one of the reasons why we always talk about, you know, having ⁓ people in your life who understand what it is that you're going through. like Cindy is one of them and she's probably, think, one of the first personal friends that I am bringing onto the podcast. So this is exciting. So, you know, the whole reason why ⁓ I was like, you know, Cindy, let me bring you on is because there is ⁓ we've been going through some stuff with Drake and there's some questions about eligibility and kind of going down and thinking and outside the box on what it is and where it is that he fits. He's like a one of a guy, right? He's the only one with the variant that he has. There's nobody in the world with TBR one the way that he is. And so sometimes it's like thinking outside the box and trying to see what it is that fits. So on, what was it? I think it was on Saturday, our kids were playing soccer together and I started asking her about a bunch of questions and ⁓ she wanted to, we started talking about ED as an eligibility. So I'm gonna let her take on here a little bit and explain to us. what an EDA eligibility means, and then we're gonna go into what it looks like in the classroom and all of that. So can you tell us about that, Cindy? speaker-1: Sure. I just give you kind of as far as my background, I have actually taught ⁓ in a day treatment style emotional disability program. It was on a comprehensive high school, but we were separate separate classrooms from the high school because of the needs of our student. I've also taught in a non-public school setting where we had easy and autism was the primary focus of the non-public school for students that we're having difficulty being on a comprehensive campus. So, of course, we use the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the DSM-5, and it does define emotional dysregulation or the emotional disability as a persistent pattern of intense, severe, and frequent negative moods, which include irritability, anger, and temper outbursts that can be either verbal or physical, both self-harm and to others. ⁓ I think a lot of people think that ED is just ⁓ manic or bipolar kids or if they're having a outburst or a tantrum. If it's only happening infrequently for this diagnosis, it would be something for them to actually have this diagnosis. It would need to be happening daily, multiple times a day. ⁓ you know, for example, we had a young lady, ⁓ actually high IQ, was able to handle all of the homework and things in the gen ed setting. However, because she had a hard time regulating herself because of the trauma, because of things that have happened in her perception, she, you know, we decided to go into the ED ⁓ process, right, ⁓ identifying if this is an issue. And it's not something that's taken lightly. ⁓ It used to be that for this diagnosis, would wait till they were teenagers to really see those things because when they're young, they don't necessarily know their space in the world, right? So ⁓ if they're having a hard time self-regulating, coping with these big emotions, for little kids, they don't even have the vocabulary, they can't even identify it. ⁓ But unfortunately, with the pandemic, we're seeing more and more kids getting diagnosed with ⁓ with these with the ED designation younger because it is, you know, environmental factors. ⁓ Unfortunately, the lack of not having the social peer ⁓ kind of seeing that interacting in school. I know that we're five years behind now from the pandemic, but it's affecting our kids. And that's why we're seeing this rise ⁓ in kids, unfortunately, either suffering more trauma. and then not being able to identify how they're feeling. speaker-0: Yeah, I, this is kind of new to me, this, you know, emotional disability. I, ⁓ and I think that a lot of parents don't really understand. So this was great to a great explanation. Now, what, so, you know, it's a, it's a, it's not necessarily a diagnosis because I think that the diagnosis are ⁓ different ones, right? Like depression or anxiety or that kind of stuff. that correct? speaker-1: It can be so kind of like an autism, you know how they have the PDD and OS, right? It's the one that doesn't necessarily have an explanation for you can have the ED as a, ⁓ know, emotional dysregulation is technically the ⁓ DSM five describes it as there are differential diagnosis within that that are more specific, right? So excuse me, bipolar disorder, oppositional defiant disorder. ⁓ persistent depressive disorder. And just like autism, it's a spectrum, right? Depending on how it affects the child, that can affect its setting in the school setting, right? It's a student that is very frequent in physical outbursts and or verbal outbursts. And it's interrupting, you know, the child's ability to get information, but also putting others in danger. ⁓ They're going to look at the different restrictive settings, right? And if for a student that is really ⁓ challenging, they would then, you know, have these discussions. It's not, like I said, it's not something that they do overnight. Not with all the testing. ⁓ You know, the school district will add in counseling services first, which will be with the school psychologist if they need more support, like with the wraparound services. then they will put in the ERMS ⁓ referral. And once again, it's kind of a long process to go through to really kind of weed out what needs to happen for the kid. And sometimes it can even be just changes within the classroom of having, you know, and we had talked about this earlier about giving the kids the curriculum that can, you know, kind of stretch them, but not to the point where they're just shutting down and they don't want to do this. Right. And we even see that in the population and amongst adults, if we're given a task, that like if you ask me to weld something, I'm going to flat out refuse because I don't know how to weld. Right. So yes, it's kind of similar if we're if we're demanding things of our children. Once again, OK to stretch. But if it's something that they really are or they they have felt uncomfortable or have not had success in that, they're going to then have those outbursts. Unfortunately, with the kids, ⁓ you know, they have just either suffered a lot of trauma or some other things going on, ⁓ you know, predisposition or genetic issues where, know, parts of your brain are not connecting or the chemistry is off. ⁓ We won't have those regulation skills. And so they do need those, ⁓ those visual cues, less people in the classroom, you know, more so. Yeah. speaker-0: Okay, so ⁓ how do you get, so, know, as we know, we have to have these assessments, right? For the child to be eligible for special education, we do assessments. And there are a thousand of them and a thousand of different ones. I actually have a book that, ⁓ where is it? It's sitting right here, because I was looking at it. Where is it? It's like, ⁓ 301 diagnostic tests for special education. this is the book of the types of assessments. So, you know, as the children, they get tested, like what is, during the assessment, and I don't know if you were ones that like, I know that you probably did the teaching, you know, assessments for them. I know that there's always a psychologist involved also when they're doing this, but what are the cues in these assessments that cue a person into, okay, this might be ED over anything else that is in here? speaker-1: Well, I think even before the assessments happen, it's the observations, right? Especially if we're into the ED ⁓ diagnoses or the diagnosis, but just looking at the ED factors that could be affecting a child. ⁓ You know, even before, ⁓ you know, if this child does not have an IEP already, you know, we really look at kind of what gives us the kind of the red flags, right? Are we having teachers, you know, put into our documentation or administrators or the student or even the parents self reporting? Are we seeing multiple of these coming in? For example, I had a student that literally every high school you have six different teachers that you work with. And that's one of the things that I pride myself on is that as the case carrier, you know, I have conversations with these teachers on a regular basis and we have progress monitoring that we need to get information from all of them. And you kind of start building that pattern, right? And then we're in, if they don't have an IP yet, if these things are showing and we're seeing these things, then we'll bring it either the parent consult request or the staff can be like, hey, we really need to take a look at the student. They're really struggling and it's not just academically, but it's everything. So then they'll go through a student study process and then if the parent agrees, to the testing and the assessment, you know, because once again, it's a team effort. And if all of that is all, we have all the assessments, then we'll pull in the different team members, right? ⁓ Of course, the teacher first, the teachers will put in their observations, the psychologist, speech therapist if it's needed, OT and PT if it's needed, psychology, of course, ⁓ will come in and, you know, we'll do our assessments. ⁓ Once that IEP is put in place, or even before they have the meetings, we as staff will get together and the psychologist sends out all the assessments ⁓ to the parents as well as to teachers. go in ⁓ and we'll even have a couple, I've had, even once the IEP was implemented before our meeting, sometimes we would meet and the electrician would review this data, but we also get holistic information as like, what are your observations? I'll ask sometimes the security. or the campus safety people, you hey, you know, you see the student out at lunchtime, what are your observations or, you know, things like that. we see a student that's having more, that's on a sports team, you know, hey, maybe he's doing really well out in sports, but he's really struggling in class, you know, let's talk about those types of things. So even before we go into the IEP meeting with the parent, we're looking for those things, right? And then as far as like then going into the, hey, this placement isn't working, right? Once again, young lady. when she could do her work, was great. But then she would then get into the the general ed classroom and it would fall apart because of social anxiety or things. you would so then you would look at those once again observation, looking at how many outbursts, refusing to work, know, walking out of class, all of those things. when you talk to them and you hear the stories of things, then that's, you know, when we would have those conversations of, I think we need to look at a more restrictive environment, smaller class settings so they're not so triggered, or have a couple classes out in Gen Ed and then pull them back so that they can then kind of self-regulate and then hopefully be successful ⁓ in the academic sense. speaker-0: So, yeah. So, ⁓ okay. So you get, you you look at all this, you do the assessment and you decide that this kid meets the ED eligibility. Okay. Then ⁓ what does it look like? So let's say, you know, we're talking about least restrictive environments. you know, it's pull outs, right? Let's go, you're gonna go into your gen ed classes and you're talking here more in a high school level. But like even when they're younger, what does this look like? Do you still, can a kid have ED and still be in general education and then have the pullouts? Do these happen in a self-contained class? And if they do, like what did they look like? Can you kind of talk us through that a little bit? speaker-1: And once again, it's, I wish I had the visual, but at the top, right, the least restrictive environment is the Gen Ed classroom, right? No supports, just the Gen Ed class. And then you have the different layers of, okay, is it just speech and PT or whatever, that's still Gen Ed. And then you go into kind of more of the special ed umbrella of pro-taught. And once again, for elementary school, I know that they do pull out for their RSP and sometimes the teacher will push in so the special ed teacher will push into the class and do like a co-teaching model. Junior high, once again, there's all those different flavors, right? So then you have SDC, which is usually, you know, 12 to 20 students, not as much behaviorally going on there. There may be a couple like classroom aids, not really one-to-ones. And then you have the SDC specialized where Like I said, the day treatment program I was in, we only had 10 students. had, so for one teacher, I had two aides ⁓ in the classroom with me. Sometimes it was just one, but usually it's two with 10 students. So you're looking at a much smaller class size that requires more, and that was our most restrictive. And you had mentioned there was ⁓ another class that you had seen where they have one-to-ones for the students. So it really depends on A, what the district offers because some districts will don't have the ED capabilities and so that they will send them to charter schools, non-political schools or residential if it's that, you know, that really 24-7 support. It is very... Once again, these are things that we don't take lightly, especially if we're going towards those more restrictive environments, because of course we want our kids to be in the least restrictive so that they can be able to, you know, access the academic curriculum, but also holistically looking at their self-worth. And so it really depends on the kids in the IEP team, right? And sometimes what we see too is as the kid matures, the programs are put in place. you can actually lower those restrictions and that student can then move out. Like let's say they're in a really restrictive, you know, two students to one adult class setting. Maybe they go to the SBC where there's more kids and only, you know, there's like, you know, 15 kids with three adults. So then it's five students per adult. And then maybe they move up. And I think that comes along with them maturing, right? Hopefully. junior high, they've learned some good skills, kind of, you know, their are growing and then hopefully by high school, you see a lot of changes by the time they can become juniors and seniors because your prefrontal cortex is not activated. There have been cases also though, where a kid was doing okay, never had an IEP or whatever, but then in adolescence, bipolar, ODD, whatever those things are. then that's where it's really sad. ⁓ Young person, ninth grade, started the year out great and then halfway through the year started hearing voices, right? And was really just declined so quickly. And you just never know. And I think that's the part as both an educator and as a parent, I see, I get conflicted sometimes, right? When I'm in these meetings and ⁓ you know, with the side of the district, depending on funding, what's available, and what training is available, staffing wise, you know, there's only so much that can happen. Whereas as a parent, I'm like, man, my kid deserves everything. And it sucks that I can't get that with what the school district, right. And even going out to non public schools and charter schools. ⁓ Yes, they work for some students. ⁓ However, you know, just like I any teacher, right? You don't get to pick who your teacher is sometimes in the high schools, you just pick whatever class or even elementary schools. like, okay, well, you're put in this class. Sometimes those staffing doesn't match. I think that's where, you know, as parents, we do have to advocate and be like, hey, this isn't working, you know? Yes. speaker-0: Quick pause here because if today's conversation feels familiar, you don't have to carry it by yourself. Through my work with Special Education Concierge, I support families navigating the many layers that come with raising a complex kid. School, services, systems, and everything in between. If you ever need guidance, clarity, or just a place to start, you can explore resources or book a free call at www.specialeducationconcierge.com. No pressure, just support. Okay, back to the episode. talking about the different types of classrooms and that's good because there are so many different options and different ways of doing this to make sure that it is ⁓ individualized, right? Which is individualized, educational. And so it should be that way. so what ⁓ now there aren't very many from my understanding. school districts that actually have an ED classroom. Is that correct? speaker-1: It is correct because it is, like I said, I mean, sometimes you're going to have three to one, ⁓ you know, student to staff ratios and to be able to fund that, you know, you're looking plus you have a psychologist plus you have, you know, wraparound services. It can be very to to run programs. And for some districts that are smaller, they don't have that many cases either. Sometimes, you know, I mean, you know, you're looking at the percentage of of young people that are that. get that eligibility. It is pretty small. Even though it can feel very big when you're dealing with it, like, ⁓ my gosh, I see it with other kids. But for those smaller school districts, they're more likely to send them to a non-public or to a different school district if they have it. For example, we had some students come in from other districts into mine because our district did offer that. We even have ⁓ a school that is for the more severe level. of students instead of sending them to county, we actually have our own school in our district that that we provide that to and I think county also has an ED program. So if the district isn't able to provide it, they will, I think they have one in the county, OCBE has one. speaker-0: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I mean, these are pretty hard to find. And I think that sometimes, you know, when you start getting into these eligibility, they're a little bit more obscure. If that's the word that I can use, like a little bit harder to know. I'm sorry. speaker-1: That's really individualized. It's very unique. Like maybe one or two percent of our student population. speaker-0: Exactly. Yeah, it is so small. It's such a small thing. But I do wonder if there are, you know, kiddos out there that should have this eligibility and they don't. ⁓ you know, because they're because of this, because it's not being, it's not very normal and common to run into. Like, I wonder how, like how Have you seen this happening? like kids being in a placement and they should be in a different placement, like in an ED type of environment? speaker-1: Yeah, and we've also had that conversation about autism focus and seeing those things. And I think part of it too is that ED has a stigma around it, right? And even parents will refuse to move students into that because they're like, well, my kid's not crazy. I'm like, no, it's not that they're crazy. It's that they have a different way of looking at the world. And unfortunately, once again, I don't know if it's trauma or something that may have happened. congenitally, but for whatever reason, their brain isn't able to feel safe. And not only for parents, but also for staff too. Like, it's, I saw something yesterday. ⁓ I think her name is Dr. Jen, and she was diagnosed and she was saying something about, you know, it's, people are saying, ⁓ more people are diagnosed with autism nowadays. And it's like, well, we found more stars once we had better telescopes, right? We have better diagnostic tools now, and we have better understanding. ⁓ Yes, there are other factors that are going on, you know, our what we're eating and environment and things may be affecting the pollution may be infecting our, our genes and things like that. But I think it's also because we have more awareness, right? I think yes. Parents, you know, once again, it's a hard thing to hear. you know, your your child is struggling, we all want what's best for our kids. And I think about this, I mean, we talked about it, like, what are our kids gonna do when they get older and they graduate? And we want to set them up for success. So ⁓ yes, I think that once again, it's, it's conversations, you know, and really working with your IEP team. ⁓ And, you know, just looking at what's, you know, what's available. I think that special ed in of itself creates a stigma or people and like look at our our Department of Education, you know, yes, yes, gotten rid of special ed like how what are those protections? That's whole other thing. And you're already you're already cutting funding, right? The state does do much already of our funding. However, the US government gave the protections with ADA. speaker-0: I don't know if speaker-1: American Disabilities Act and IDEA. I mean, right, those were federally created programs. Laws. level, yes. That now there is no oversight, supposedly. And so we're talking about these small percentage, these things, it's going to then be harder for us as parents and as educators to provide those services or get those services for our kids, even though ⁓ I look at our kids, Both Drake and Ari are incredibly, like their brains run so fast. for example, with Ari, I really pushed for assistive technology assessment and they don't really talk about that stuff in elementary, which I get, right? And even like, threw this for AD, but because I see it at the high school and I think about, what's life gonna look like after? My son doesn't read at grade level, but there's these tools there spell check and we use this Like why are we teaching our kids I get that they want elementary speaker-0: 100 % 100 % speaker-1: But you know, our sons are now in sixth grade. And you know, let's stop beating the dead horse. Let's help them use the tools to unlock what's inside their brains. Like for sure. Right? I mean, I'm both of our kids at two times speed, able to regurgitate and tell us what it is and come up with their own synthesize their own ideas. Like, why are you those things? And I think that's in any of our class settings, I think that yeah, for that. And it's hard because once again, everyone's getting. speaker-0: think that that is the biggest reason why they are not using assistive technology is because staff is not trained in it. And they don't know how to, if you don't know how to use it, how are you going to teach a kid how to use it? So you know, we do have the, the, the people who do the assessments, right? And they come in. And it's, my experience has been that it's so basic. most of the time, like the assistive technology stuff that they're offering, it is so basic. And then I think about like, okay, you know, he's not reading, he's not writing. So what are we doing here? Like, can we just use Siri or chat GPT to help this? Let's move on. Like, you know, with, with the tracing with the, ⁓ you know, coloring it, let's move on from there. Like let's help them use the technology that we do have to help them. I'm not saying give up on them on reading. speaker-1: know, developmentally, right? They're in sixth grade. They are they know how to use technology better than we do. speaker-0: Exactly. Seriously. speaker-1: Ari was like, that's reason I watch stuff at two times speed now is because Ari showed me, oh, this is how you do the playback speed. I'm like, yes. And he was like seven at the time when he showed me that I'm like, dude, seriously, like, oh, my gosh, maybe in my dissertation, or my thesis stuff so much faster. But and I get like, you know, it is important for them to still do like, if they're in kindergarten, the third grade, like, yes, learn your letters, do the tactile do all that stuff. Yeah, fourth through fifth, fourth through six, even, you know, let's work on comprehension. Let's do those things. But it shouldn't be that this it's this huge obstacle for them, right? Like, yeah, sure. Give them the fundamentals, teach them how to use the AI responsibly. And because if you're going to give AI junk, it's going to throw junk back, right? of course. You know, they have the read and write. I think I know for the school district our kids are in. ⁓ It's an extension called Read and Write. There's Snap and Read. There's all these different things. Even on Amazon you can now get and I know that I think we have in our district the the C pens which can read it to you. ⁓ yes, and yeah, and it does that One of my colleagues in the high school district She was saying that it's actually become a social tool for her for her student because her when they're in group readings Her students that are in the group will actually quiet down and listen to the pen because they like being read to as well Right. Our kids are so used to watching and other, you know, things. They are more auditorily strong versus the reading, which is still important. I'm not saying that it's not. But if you compare it with the audio, like that helps Ari so much. Like, we'll watch, you know, the read alouds of Dogman and he'll be following along in the book. And now his reading has come along, right? Yeah. But once again, like to teach that to teachers, it's speaker-0: Bye. speaker-1: It's challenging because they do have so much that they now have to do with all the different curriculums, all the different progress monitoring. But I think it would be helpful if we can help the teachers and the aides. here is how you use it. Yes. Please, because... speaker-0: to help them learn so they can be used, If you don't know, like, I mean, I would be super, I wouldn't want to use if I don't know. So, you know, and I don't think any speaker-1: think teach the parents too. We can support them to, ⁓ I mean, know. At home. Right. And I have students, you know, their parents, we did a math night. ⁓ I did the one with my co-teacher and we sat down with parents and said, hey, here's websites. Instead of you using photo math, right? Because that doesn't teach you anything. It just gives you the answer. Use something like Purple Math. Use something like Khan Academy. ⁓ Because I know a lot of parents feel like, my gosh, I can't do the math now. It's like, it's this common core, blah, blah, blah. It's actually the same stuff that we had, but now they've put it into like, ⁓ if you think about math as a foreign language that you're learning, are websites, like I said, that can help you so that you don't feel like you're lost behind your child. once again, teaching the kids how to use the technology and then ⁓ And then we being open as parents and educators to learn along with them, support for sure. It's because the kids and even for their emotions, like us thinking aloud, like, you know, I'm really angry. And I need to take a break before I lose my poop. Right. I think that I process that out loud. And then we once I calm down, we have conversations and same thing when my kids blow up. You know, I'm like, hey, I get it, you were upset. you know, and we of course we do this once they've calmed down. You're like, let's think about some other let's practice some other ways instead of you punching a hole in the wall. Let's talk about right? yes, you know, or the big thing now, it feels like we have that we use the five point scale from one to five, like one being like, you know, it's, you know, a little nudge to five being like, it's a fire with the fire sirens and everything. speaker-0: for you. speaker-1: and giving them that language of it can feel like a five. Right? But the world is burning down. But really, you know, you forgetting your lunch is a two or three, right? Like, we can probably troubleshoot you can be upset. It's that's okay. But don't tear up a classroom because you're upset. Right? ⁓ Yeah, for sure. So those are some of the things that I think we get so lost in in wanting them to to be academically whatever or being whatever, but many of our kids don't even have the language to name those big things. speaker-0: Yes. Yeah. Well, Cindy, always ask towards the end of the episode, I always ask ⁓ for you to share your best words of wisdom with the moms that are listening. And this is going to be great because you are a mom. So what are your words of wisdom for the moms that are listening right now? speaker-1: I think for the moms listening right now, especially having ⁓ just this journey that we're on, is really to sit back and remind yourself that you are enough, that you are doing the best for your child. You don't have all the answers. Gosh, I always say this all the time. I have been in special ed for 20 plus years and I still break down crying. I still worry about what my son's gonna do. When he's older, I worry about my own students like I have students that have graduated and they'll still reach back to me and let me know and I worry about them because once again like You get to know them and you get to live their lives and I think his mom's and I've talked to their moms and it's just to know that You're not alone in this, you know, you have friends and people around you Your team should be okay, and I start my IP team meetings like this is that we're all doing the best that we can with the resources we have. We are doing, I am doing the best I can with the resources I have. And it's hard, but you don't have to go in a speaker-0: Of course. ⁓ for sure. Well, Cindy, thank you so much for coming on. I love it. We'll have you back because I think that we need to talk about some other eligibility, too. So thank you for coming on. I appreciate it. And everyone will catch you next week. speaker-1: See ya. speaker-0: Before you go, take a deep breath. You don't have to solve everything today. You don't have to have it all figured out. If this episode helped you, you'll seem grounded or a little less alone. Make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss future conversations. And if you ever want a deeper support, special education concierge is here when you're One step at a time. One decision at a time. You are your child's hero. I'll see you next time.