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#032_ Ultimate Weight Loss Secrets · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: That's right. I'm going to ask you questions and you
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: were going to answer.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: That, just like an interrogation.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Just like that. You buttered me out because you brought
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: these amazing gifts.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, just the little latches.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: So this insane cake. Yeah, my god.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: So it's well good stuff. It's obviously vegan. It's it's
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: German chocolate cake. I used to be the pastry chef
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: at Sante for five years area. So even though it's
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: looks decond and it is, I don't use oil. I
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: don't use sugar, at least not refined sugar. It's all
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: made with dates and there's no salt, and it's pretty
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: darn good.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Act it looks pretty amazing. Yes, I think.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: You'll like it. I want you to like it as
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: much as the thing that stood out for me rich
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: most in your book that I remember the most is
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: when you talked about when you detox tenuate your first
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: blueberry and it was like the best blueberry ever. I
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: hope this is like the best cake ever for you.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I think this might exceed the taste of us blue.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: But you know that's amazing, So I should refrigerate.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: That at some point. Refrigerated it'll be fine now.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Then, and then you also brought me this what is
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: this great?
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: That's my rock and nut Crunch. That was actually the
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: first product I created out of culinary school. And again
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: it's it's just nuts, seeds and fruit, that's it.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Huh. Looks amazing.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: It's good. It's good for athletes because I know athletes
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: need more concentrated calories.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going to eat it now. I'll be chewing on that.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: It'll be very noisy.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Actually, thank you.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: You're welcome.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: So it's great to see you.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: We are back here again. You were one of the
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: original Old Guard on the podcasts episode fifty something Wow, yeah,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: three or something like that back in like twenty thirteen.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: It was a while back. It was amazing. Thank you
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: for having me back, of course.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so excited to talk to you. And I think,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: you know the best way to kick it off is
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: to kind of share a little bit about your story,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and I know we dug into that pretty deeply the
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: first time you were on, but the show has grown
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: quite a bit.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Sin.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of people listening who
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: who were not aware that you were on the show.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Even initially. And your story's great. I mean, it's so
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: empowering and inspirational, and you know your transformation is thank
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: really something else thinks. So tell me about that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, So where should I begin? Born nineteen sixty in
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Chicago to a morbidly obese mother and a normal weight father.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: And you probably know that when you have your parents
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: are obese or overweight, you have more chance of becoming that.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: And so I got fat when I was five years
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: old and I lived in Chicago, and I don't remember
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: because I'm a little bit older than you, maybe a
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: lot growing up.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I don't look at that.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I'll be fifty eight and three weeks.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: But in the nineteen sixties there weren't a lot of
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: fat kids. And so when people tell me now you
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: can't understand what it's like to be fat because they
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: see me as a slender person. I was fat before
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: it was socially acceptable to be fat. Nobody was fat.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: There was one fat kid in every grade in nineteen sixty.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy, that was me. So maybe I wasn't
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: as fat by today's standards. But when you're the fattest one,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: you're still the fattest one. And there's a lot of
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: things that go on with that are not comfortable growing up, like,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: for instance, you can't buy your clothes at a regular
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: score because they don't fit. And so became fat at five,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: but by eleven I was actually obese. I weighed one
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: hundred and sixty pounds and I'm five six at eleven,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: but I wasn't five six then. I wasn't even five
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: feet then. So I was obese. And you know, it's
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: not fun, and it doesn't matter how fat you are,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: it's still it's not fun if you're fat and you're
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable in your own body. So I didn't realize that
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: I was actually suffering from what I know today to
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: be a food addiction and addiction to refine food, specifically
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: things like sugar and flour. And I continued to become
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: fatter and fatter. I got into about the two hundred
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: pound range in my twenties, but I was vegan. This
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: is the weird thing. At the age of seventeen, when
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I was a freshman at the University of Pennsylvania, I
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: was studying to be a veterinarian, and instead of became
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: a vegetarian because the first day on the job, I
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: was handed a tank of live salamanders and the doctor
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: said to cut their heads off, and I said why,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: He goes, well, we're doing protein lens regeneration experiments in
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: the amphibian and I just need their eyes. Well, I
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: was on scholarship and there's something about you see a
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: guy in a white coat, and I cut off one
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: head and I was like terrible. I started vomiting. I
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: went to the student health center and I said I
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: would never eat another animal again, or harm one or
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: wear one. So it became a vegan on September first,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah not cool back then.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was forty ye.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I imagine not easy either.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: No. No, we didn't even have powdered soy milk in
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven. Now you can go to any town
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: anywhere in the United States ninety nine cent store Walmart
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: and you get plant milk in probably ten different varieties. Oh,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: and soy and rice. There was nothing, well, there wasn't nothing.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: There was whole natural food like fruits, vegetables and whole
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: grains and lugumes and nuts and seeds. But that's not
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: what I ate. I was a sugar addict. I didn't
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: know it at the time, but looking back, starting every
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: day with a coke slurpee with eight pumps of Vanella
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: syrup and having a doctor pepper big gulp forty eight
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: ounces every day at lunch not exactly a health promoting diet.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: So I did this every day till I was about
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: forty three years old. Twenty six years of my veganism
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: was basically eating candies, cakes, cookies, pies, and ice cream,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: and so of course I became.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Of course I became during that period of time. Were
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: you trying to resolve this issue? Like, were you going
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: on diets and trying to restrict your calories and doing
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: all the things that you know we do.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I tried this one diet in my teens,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: which was called anorexia, where I didn't eat, and I
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: actually ended.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Up objective for a while.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Oh it works beautifully, It's just not a lot. It's
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: not sustainable, you know. So I tried that in my
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: teens and ended up hospitalized. And so that wasn't good
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: because there were so many complications. My hair fell out,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: my nails, I developed in a large liver. That wasn't
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: very fun. But the thing about anarexia is the minute
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: I started eating again, I didn't start eating the way
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: that you eat and I eat now. I went back
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: right away to the junk food and then I gained
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: even more weight. And actually, what a lot of people
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: don't know, and they'll find out in my book is
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I actually attempted suicide because then I became belliemic. And
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, that was worse than an
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: arexia for me, because I didn't like being anarexic, but
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: there was It wasn't that hard. So in other words,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: to be anorexic, all I had to do was not eat,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: but bulimia required extraordinary efforts because the binging and the
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: purging and the laxative use and the over exercising. Believe me,
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: it was a twenty four hour job. So it was anarexia.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: But anarexi you're basically cold and tired. You don't have
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: any energy to do anything. And so that's when I
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: attempted suicide at the age of nineteen. And I never
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: told anybody this, not even my husband, till about three
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: years ago.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I read that in your book. I
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: was like, wait, I don't think I knew that Kanskie.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: We didn't talk about that last time, and i'd never heard.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not something I was really comfortable talking about.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: But then when I started, when I spoke at the
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: mcdogle conference, he insisted I tell my life story, and
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: I didn't think it was fair to leave that out,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: especially since coming out as a food addict or food
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: addict in recovery. Now, so many people have written me
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: saying that they've contemplated suicide and attempted suicide because of
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: their discordant relationship with food. So I figured, well, I'll
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: tell people. Yeah, it was a dark period in my life, so.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Walk me through that little bit. I mean, you know
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: what I mean. I can't imagine the level of despair.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like I tried. I remember the day
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: at April first, you know. And it's funny because I
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: don't usually think about this, but it's interesting because I
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: do personally believe in God. I know a lot of
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: people don't. But that's the only explanation for why I'm alive.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Because I didn't tell anybody. I didn't even leave a note,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: and I had stolen I never had to talk about this.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: My grandfather was a medical doctor and I stole medicine
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: from his house, my grandfather. My grandmother was diabetic. She
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: was on a lot of stuff, and I just just
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: stole stuff, just just all her my grandmother's pills. I
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: don't remember the names, but my grandmother took a lot
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: of pain medication, so I know it was in that
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: realm of pain medication. And I never drank alcohol, but
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I remember drinking a bunch of alcohol and taking a
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: bunch of these pills. And I remember it was passover
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: and I didn't go because I had planned to kill
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: myself that night. And what was really interesting is my grandfather,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: who had stolen the pills from he showed up at
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: my door. He said, he said, I don't know why
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: I've been directed to come here, and then you know,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: then you know, they take you in an ambulance and
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: they pump your stomach, and then then you end up
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: in a mental hospital, which is like worse because that
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: they don't that's you know, and you have the mental
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: It was not fun.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you how old were you then? I was.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: I was twenty yeah. Yeah.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: So do you think that, looking back on it now
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: with some perspective, that was it a tried and true
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: suicide attempt to or cry for help.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: No, it was tried. I mean it from me. I
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: you know I was tried and true because I didn't
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: tell anybody, I didn't leave a note, and I took
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of pills. I mean, I don't know if
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: it would have worked, but there was a lot.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: You're still alert when your grandfather.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: No, I only remember vaguely a shadow of him saying that,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: you know, I just felt like I had to come
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: here because you didn't show up to the passover Satyr.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that So.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: I want to get into like how you were from
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: something like that and the path forward. But I don't
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: want to move too far away from this subject of
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: food addiction, Like I don't want to just brush over here.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's a super important topic that deserves a
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: little bit more of a deep dive. And I think
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of confusion about it. What does it
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: actually mean? Is it even really a thing? So describe
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: to me your perspective on food addiction.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: It is true because it is not really a thing
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: yet to many people, because it's not in the DSM,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: so a lot of doctors won't acknowledge it. Even some
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: of the plant based doctors. So to me, what food
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: addiction means is refined food addiction. You're not really addicted
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: to food and eating. If you don't eat, you'll die.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: But there are particular foods for specifically foods like sugar
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: and flour that are very highly refined carbohydrates that certain
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: people are very vulnerable to the effect of, so that
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: when we ingest them, they have a more drug like
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: behavior than food like behavior. And as a recovering alcoholic,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you underst that there are people out there
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: that can drink alcohol in varying amounts and not become
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: an alcoholic. God bless them, right, But there's certain people
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: like you one drink one drunk, and there's people in
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: the world, like my husband that can eat sugar and
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: flour in almost any amount and be slender and healthy
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: and not have cravings. But there's other people that even
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: a little bit like maybe if it's the fifth ingredient
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: in a barbecue sauce, will set us off, and it
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: will set off the phenomenon known as craving, where all
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: we do is want more and more and more. It
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: sets off that insatiable desire for more.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's insidious for those that suffer from it. And
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, I started doing a lot of
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: deep thinking about addiction and what it is specifically and
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: what it's not, and I really think that we need
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: to have a broader conversation and expand the definition of
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: what we mean when we talk about addiction. It's not
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: just drunks and people that can't keep a need ale
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: out of their arm. I think on some level it's this.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: On some level, well, I think all of humanity suffers
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: to some extent from some type of compulsive behavior or
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: thought pattern or substance, you know, and food is certainly
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: a part of that. But it is a spectrum, right,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: and so where do you fall on that righthadrum.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: That's why it's so hard, I think, because it's a spectrum,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: you know, and because some people can have a little
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: and some people there are people that identify with the
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: title of food addict, but maybe can have the barbecue
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: sauce as a condiment with the fifth ingredient. And because
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: it exists on a continuum, it's so hard to quantify. Whereas,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: like with high blood pressure, we can say if your
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: blood pressure is this, you're hypertensive and there's no real
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: direct test for it.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And the substance is, whether it's food or a drug,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: is the catalyst. The condition really has to do with
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: your mental, emotional, and physiological state. You know, there's a
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: certain person who's going to be sensitive, like you said,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: to sugar or alcohol or cocaine, and it's going to
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: activate them in a way that it isn't for somebody else.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: But ultimately, the addiction lies within the soul really. I mean,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: it's you're trying to alter your state, your state of mind,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: your physiological state, and you're reaching out often, you know,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: mostly compulsively, but often even unconsciously to medicate yourself in
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: some way because you have some level of discomfort, and
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: sugar hits the spot for a lot of people. But
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: it's about getting at the root of what is activating that.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: And something that I thought was really cool and interesting
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: about your book is that you get into the emotional
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: trauma that you suffered as a young person, and you know,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I think that there is a direct nexus between the
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: trauma that we suffer as young people and how we
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: kind of navigate the world as adults. And I've explored
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: this at length on the podcast. I had Gabor Mate
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: on the show. He's all about that, and so to
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: hear you speak to that, I think is really powerful.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: So walk me through kind of what that experience was
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: like as a young person, because you know you did
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: have some challenge here, he did.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I thank you for asking that. At first, I want
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: to agree with what you say about how addiction often
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: starts because of something like that, that trying to medicate
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: feel better, especially as a child when you're helpless. You know,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: you can't go to a bar and have a drink
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: or things like that. But I think that often it
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: continues because now it is an addiction. Does that make sense?
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: So like when I was forty three years old and
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: happily married, I was still using, not because of what
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: happened to me when I was five, but because I
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: was really addicted.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: There was so much energy behind that that that happened
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: at that point, right.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: So you know my father was psychotic. He is not
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: his fault. He was kicked in the head by a
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: horse when I was little.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Like psychotic, like clinically like yes.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Like he was. And I didn't know him before the accident,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: but the people that did, like my grandmother, said that
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: that changed him now today he would have been a neurologist.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: There would have been MRIs. But he my dad had
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: a gash in his head from being kicked in the
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: head by a horse and that changed his behavior. So
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: he was violent and he was abuse to pretty much
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: everybody in my family. He never physically hit me and
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: my sister, which was interesting, but in a way I
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: had survivor's guilt because he hit my brothers and my mom.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: But the worst was watching him torture my dog. And
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: that's it's interesting because I think the reason I became
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: vegan and so young is because I couldn't protect my
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: dog from my dad and he would just he would
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: just brutally beat I love my dogs. I love dogs.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I saw a dog here. I love dogs so much,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: and that was my best friend, Snoopy, And Snoopy was
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: an epileptic and he would have seizures and my dad
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: would just beat my dog and I couldn't do anything
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: about it. And that was the worst thing is like,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: you know, my brothers and my brothers were older, my
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: mom was an adult. Not that it's good to watch
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: humans being beat either, but like when it's a defenseless
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: animal like that, and I hated him so much and
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: like I wanted to kill him. But like, when you're five,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: what do you do?
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: And so you know you have cookies.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Do you think your dad's rage or anger outbursts are
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: are I mean, was that an expression of I mean
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: it was it just a neurological tweak because of the
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: injury that he stained.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't know him before. I mean, I don't know
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: if I should even say this because then people think
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I'm really crazy. But I did contact a medium that
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: could talk to him since he's dead. Yeah, okay, so
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I finally did a few years ago, and part of
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: it was his personality. But the thing is, the personality
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: plus the injury just made a bad situation worse.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: You know, And what about your mom?
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: My mom was a helpless victim. She was you know,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: she had four kids, so it's not like she didn't
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: have a job, so it's not like she could leave.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: And I don't think there were shelters back then. But
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: finally she got the courage to leave. They were married, gosh,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: a long time. I think it was when I was
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: eleven finally when he brutally attacked or she finally My grandparents,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: my grandfather. Thank God for my grandfather finally got her
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: to finally leave once and for all. So yeah, you know,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I grew up kind of scared because he was really
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: mean and I was really little, and I couldn't really
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: do anything about it back then, and you know, there's
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: nobody to talk to back then about it.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Do you have a specific memory of turning to food
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: to comfort you or is it just a blur of
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: like it just was always there?
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Trying to think if there was an actual incident, it
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: kind of was always there because it was in the environment.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: You know, we had all the treats there. So that's
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: a good question. I'm gonna I'm gonna let it, marry
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: it because I right now.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: But you grew up with froot loops and oreo.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, I love that stuff. Yeah, And
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: you know it's funny because my mom would pack my lunch.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: I went to school and one of the things that
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: one of the again, you know, I think about these
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: things there is traumatic memories. But when I went to
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: school there, I sometimes go to this place called Farmer's
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Market at theirn Fairfax and they sell these vintage lunch
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: boxes that were so cool. What you're talking about and
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: all the kids had those, but mine was gray like
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: the construction workers, the big gray lunchbox with the thermost
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: And when I think back to the kind of food
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: she fed me, because obviously she was a food addict herself,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: I mean I wouldn't just have like one little dessert
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: like I would have like the whole double thing susie
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Q and then I would have a soda. I would
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: have like just part of it was just that I
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: wasn't being fed the right food either, that I was
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: fed a diet that was going to probably make me
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: fat and sick unless my genetics were such that it wasn't.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: So part of it was that, let's see, I just
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: you know, I remember I have to I had a
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: crawl on this counter to get to the good stuff
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: in the thing. And I remember the you know, the
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: box cereals like lucky charms. I remember picking out the charms.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't eat the lucky because the Lucky was the
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: was the oat brand thing that was terrible. I just
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: wanted the marshmallows, you know.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, So you're in you know, fifth, sixth,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: seventh grade, You're the one overweight child in your class.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: And I remember that too. There was you know, there
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: was generally one kid who struggled with his weight or
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: her weight. Now it's very different. I had lots of kids,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: oh more most kids at some schools, but that had
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: to be I would imagine, I don't want to project
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: on to you, but but I would imagine, you know,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: that's isolating.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I was lucky that I was funny
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: and I was I made up. You know, it's the
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: kind of thing where like i've since I done stand
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: up comedy of an on Tonight show, and one of
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: the things they learn is is that you make fun
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: of yourself before they make fun of you. And so
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I was very funny. I was I was intelligent, I
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: was always the teacher's pet. I was very bright. But
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I was really funny, and so people still like me
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: even though I was fat. I mean the boys didn't
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: like me. I mean they liked me because I could
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: do their homework, but they didn't like me like like
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: like they would like a normal girl. So I didn't
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: get a lot of teasing. You know, there was a
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: little bit, but it wasn't like the bullying that goes
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: on today because I really was popular because I was funny,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: and people like funny people.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: You know, it's so hard to imagine you like, two
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: hundred pounds, Like I can't even I can't even picture it.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: In ninety I think it was ninety four, we had
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: this huge earthquake in Los Angeles and I was in
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Sherman Oaks and I lost everything except for the clothes
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: that I had, and so all the pictures because the
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: water pipe broke, were gone. So I don't have pictures
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: at that weight. But if you go to my YouTube
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: page Chef AJ and watch me on the Tonight Show,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: you'll see me least at one eighty.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: But I did have a pair of shorts, Oh my god.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: That I used to wear, so these were pretty big.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those looked like forty two or yes.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: So I do have that. And then I have also pictures,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: you know, not quite two hundred that you know, most
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: of them toopped out at one sixty.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Five, right right, that's wild, So all right, so let's
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: pick it back up from you know, after this suicide attempt,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, was that like a moment of reckoning where
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: you're like, I got to figure this out. You know?
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: What happened after that?
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: No, it was dark I just this shame and humiliation.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: My brother's a psychiatrist. I mean, so it was like
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: kind of brought a lot of shame to my family.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: And uh, you know, I remember, you know, people saying
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: to me, why don't you just pull yourself up by
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: your bootstraps? And I'm like, you know, it's like saying
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: an alcoholic, you know, why don't you just stop drinking? Right,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: It's not that easy. And so you know, I was
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: depressed and it was it was. It was bad. It
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: was bad.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: And how long did that? You know?
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I was how long was I in the hospital for
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: you know, the put you if they put you in
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: a locked ward.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Of a mental hospital, how long were you there?
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: I want to say like three months? And whoa, And
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: it was it was. It's crazy, I mean because some
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: of the people there, I mean, no disrespect to mentally
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: ill people, are actually crazy. And so it's it's it's
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: sort of like in prison, like they mix like hardened
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: criminals with less hardened criminals. They just put everybody together,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: and there's something about when that door closes, you know,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: you can't get out. I remember my mom visiting me
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: with my dog, and it's just you know, It's almost
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: like I didn't know you were going to ask about this,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: or I would have brushed up on my past because
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: it's really something I don't think about. But it was.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: It was not a good periods.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: So did they have you on a battery of all
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: kinds of crazy?
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Were they?
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: You know, they they they tried medicine. Say, you know,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I'm lucky then I'm a real sensitive and allergic person.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Because none of them seemed to work, and none of
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: them either I would throw up or get a rash.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: So no, I wasn't. They didn't put me on Thoris
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: and thank goodness.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: And were they just warehousing you or were you getting help?
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Like you know, I mean, you know, either you go
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: to you know, you go to groups, you know. I mean,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I mean again, I don't want to sound like I'm
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: belittling them, but you know they have like art therapy
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: and music therapy and psycho trauma. So I mean, you know,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: if I wish I had remembered it more, if I
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: knew I was going to be at a point in
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: my life where I'd be able to tell the story,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I would have taken notes because it would have made
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: a brilliant you know, like comedic movie at.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Some point, well comedic, but also you know, and heart breaking. Yeah,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking, I mean, and it is that thing like
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: once you're in, like you know, a lot of people
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: never make it out.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now it's it was, it's really really scary. It's
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: it's I don't wish it on anybody. Maybe they're better now,
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: but but you want you want to hear a funny story.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: So later in life, I became a respiratory therapist and
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: it's a it's a it's like an allied health profession
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: where we go around with like machines and give breathing treatments.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: It's like in the hospital. And I ended up working
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: at the same hospital where I was locked up as
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: a mental patient. But the mental hospital is across the street,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: and I never liked going there to give the breathing
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: treatments because I thought, God, what if they lock me
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: up again? Because it back out. Yeah, so it's not
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: like because most people up until now, you know, nobody
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: knew about this. But I remember going there to give
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: a breeding treatment to a patient, and then I saw
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: a patient that was one of the staff members when
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I was hospitalized. In other words, the people that were
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: our staff were still there. We're just as crazy as
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: the people they were trying to help. And again I
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: apologize if people are offended by crazy. I mean it,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: like in a more loving way. I don't mean crazy.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: But the people that was my psychiatric aid when I
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: was hospitalized was now an incoherent to psychiatric patient.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: The staff person became a patient.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh my god. I couldn't believe it.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: It's like, and these are the people that were tending
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: to us. It's scary, you.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, that's heavy.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: It's very scary.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: So you get out of that, and then what happens,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Oh my god.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: So I went back. I had to go back to
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: live with my mom. I couldn't go back to the
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: University of Pennsylvania. And you know, she basically said, you
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: have to get a job. And I am trying to
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: remember what did I do. It's like my twenties. It's
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: like my twenties were a blur. But eventually, you know,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I did get a job. Actually I got a fun job.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Actually I became a dog walker, believe it or not.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: And I remember I was the dog walker from Michael J.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Fox And that was the funnest job I ever had.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: He had to get like the plum Dog.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: It's like it's like literally he was so generous and
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: he had two beautiful golden retrievers named Jamie and Rosie
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: that he wanted taken out for like several hours twice
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: a day. And at that time that was like the
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: only only client I needed. Like that was the best
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: job I'd ever had.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: So you were out here, that.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Was yeah, I lived here. I moved here in nineteen
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: seventy one from Chicago.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, gotcha? All right, So let's play this forward.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: When when does it? When's the final reckoning moment with wait?
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Like you know, I know you have sort of fits
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: and starts, you're taking stabs trying to get this under control.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Walk me through that to the breaking.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Poor So, like I said, I didn't have a big
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: history of dieting or trying diets because I saw my
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: mom fail at every diet. I had the stab at
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: anorexia from fourteen to nineteen, which worked but was unsustainable.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I got married when I was I was gonna say
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: ninety five thirty five in nineteen ninety five is when
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: I got married. And you know, I didn't want to
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: be a fat bride, and as luck would have it,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: fen Fenn had hit the market. Then it was very
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: popular and I wasn't quite really fat enough for the
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: doctor said, but because I had a knee injury from
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: all the years of over exercising, he allowed me to
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: have it and I was able to get my weight
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: down to pretty close to what I am now.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Well powerful stuff, yeah, oh my god.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: So exactly. They both work, but again they're both dangerous.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: They're both life threatening, and neither of them are sustainable.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: So I was so happy when I was on fen
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Fend because it allowed me to keep eating the crap
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: that I was eating, but it tricked my brain into
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: thinking I was full, so I could eat just smaller
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: amounts of crap.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Which were you all jacked up to?
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: It actually had an antidepressant effect on me, so it
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: actually made me feel really good. I felt fantastic on it.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Things rolled off my back like water off a duck's back.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: How long were you on it?
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I was on it for probably six months.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: That's pretty long. Don't you get a tolerance thought to
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: take more?
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah you do. But here's what happened. It got removed.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: The FDA took it away, so and I remember that
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: this show was like it was two drugs, right, ye
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: and fen floramine that that separately works okay, but together
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: we're like this magic bullet that was going to annihilate
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: the OBC epidemic. So what happened is people are getting
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: heart lung damage like from it. And so I remember
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: going to the mailbox one day and there was a
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: letter from the FDA, and I'm like, is the FDA
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: writing me? You know, Well, they had removed it from
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: the market. We were told to stop taking it and
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: to go immediately to a cardiologist to have an echo cardiogram.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: So I was fine, but I really still wanted the drugs.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: So I went online and I tried to buy it
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: in other countries, but I couldn't buy the potent combination.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I could only buy I believe the FENTER mean illegally.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: There's no silk road. That didn't work.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: So guess what, Within three months the weight came right
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: back on. I learned nothing, and so I just assumed
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: that I was destined to be fat one hundred and
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: sixty one sixty five. I just figured that's my set point.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Mom was fat, my grandma was fat, my great grandma
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: that's it. So I'll just learn to accept it.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: And makeup genetically predetermined.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: I figured, that's it, you know. And I remember because
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: as a vegan, you know, I had started to teach cooking,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: and I remember thinking, you know, like it was a
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: little bit embarrassing because you think of people in the
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: vegan world that are like influencers, like you know, you
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: think like Mary McDougall, she's very trim, and you know
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Aunt Esselston. And I just figured, you know, it's not
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: in my cards, it's and so I was going to
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: do the best I couldn't. But what was happening. I
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: started teaching. I remember teaching at Whole Foods Pasadena when
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: they opened that big store, and I was very popular
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: as a culinary teacher. I had the biggest class, seventy
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: seven people, and I was doing a culinary class, and
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I remember this gentleman raises his hand. You know, I'm
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: thinking he's going to ask about the garlic or the onion.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: He said, I go, yeah, he goes, if the vegan
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: diets so good, why are you so fat? And I
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: felt like saying, I don't know, why are you such
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: an asshole? But I didn't call sick yeah, and then
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: people were and once I started putting these little videos
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: on you, two people were saying the same thing. It
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: was generally men saying that, and my husband would delete
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: the comments and it didn't It didn't really hurt my
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: feelings so much because they were right, because I really
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: didn't know why I was so fat. I really like,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: then I found out and it went to a place
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: called True North and January of two thousand and eleven.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: What motivated you to go there? Though?
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: First, this is interesting, It wasn't because I was fat.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: In my first book on process, I talk about my
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: string of of fetal deaths. The babies weren't quite yet born,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: but I had four miscarriages right one after the other. Yeah. Yeah,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: and the first one was like almost alive birth, and
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: so that set me into a pretty bad depression. This
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: was too in the year two thousand. February first, two
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: thousand was when the first baby died, the one that
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: was almost born, and I was forty years old, and
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: so it was tough. It had four of these in
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: a row, and at the same time, my mom and
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: my dad and my dog died, so it was like
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: so I was I was like, I developed something called
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: panic disorder, and I couldn't leave my house for a year.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I lost my job in my house because I kept
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: having panic attacks and I wouldn't go on meds because
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I don't like meds. I don't like the it's not
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I just didn't like the idea of meds, especially psych meds.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Well, well, you had, I would imagine you associate that
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: with being in that institution, like that's a highway back there.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be on psych meds, you know,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: and especially because you know I'm vegan, and I keep
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: thinking I'm vegan, I should you know, a diet should
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: be enough. I should be able to, you know, do
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: this right. The problem is I had already had that
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: major depressive episode you know, in childhood, which again sets
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: you up for another one. So I was depressed, but
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: now it wasn't just depression. I was having panic attacks.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: And they're scary because you know, I'd be walking my
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I had two dogs at the time, and i'd be
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: walking them, I'd get a panic attack, and then I'd
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: lose control of my arms and then the dogs would
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: go and so it got so scary, especially when I
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: was driving, that I just checked out and I just
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: stayed home for nine months, well gorphobia. And so the
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: problem was if you don't go to work for nine months,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: you know, they don't make any money. And so what
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: happened was is, uh, this is actually outlined on a
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: show called The Dog Whisper with Caesar Milan, is I
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: found out that my dog, Sparky at the time, was
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: able to predict if I was going to have a
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: panic attack. He just knew, just kind of like my
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: grandfather earthquakes, right like he could sense it. And so
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: if it was coming on, he could he just like
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: he would stare at me, he would pawt me, he
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: would lick me, he would bark, And I didn't train
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: him to do this, and so I I the promise.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: He was a little bit dog aggressive. And I found
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: out there was a thing called a psychiatric service dog,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: a service dog. And what happened was is I I
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: went on the Dog Whisper and he became my service dog,
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: and I was able to re enter the workforce using
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: the service dog, go back to work, and I did
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: start taking medication at the end.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: On a second I went on, I went on the
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Dog Whisperer, like you.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Well, so so what happened was is okay, sorry, I'm
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: getting ahead of myself A lot of this. I wish
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I could do that. So what happened was is I
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: saw in the La Times had a paper. We had
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: newspapers back then, the Sunday Times. I believe this would
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: have been two thousand and six now or two thousand
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: and five, and the show had only been on one season.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: He wasn't as huge of a star then as he
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: is now because this was season casting for season two.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: And I found out because my psychiatrist was willing to
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: write me a letter because to have this dog, because
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: if I felt safe with him, because I knew that
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: if he could predict that I was going to have
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: a panic attack, if I felt when coming on and
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: I was driving, I could pull over, I could get
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: to a safe space. And so Caesar Milan helped me
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: get him certified so that he would be suitable in public.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: And it was great. It was a wonderful, heartwarming episode.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: The thing is I did go on a small amount
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: of medication at the urging of believe it or not,
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: a naturopathic doctor who said, I can't help you, you
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: need these drugs. So I went on an antidepressant called
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: lexipro in twenty and eleven ten milligrams, not that much,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: and it did stop me from having panic attacks. It
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: did work. The thing was is it it also has
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: other effects, and it just you don't have as joyous
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: or a vibrant as life when you're on these medications.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: You're just kind of like, yeah, you know. So in
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: a way it was good because here having panic attacks.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: I remember one time the scariest panic attack was I
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: was taking a bath and we had at that time
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: a sunken tub, and I got a panic attack in
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: the bathtub. And when I was getting panic attacks, my
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: arms and legs would go numb and I couldn't get
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: out of the tub, and then you just end up
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: being naked and freezing. It was really scary. So I
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: went on this medicine, but again I wasn't really having
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: like you say, it was more of a flat affect.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: I wasn't really having a joyous life. And plus I
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: didn't like the idea of being on medication, you know,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: And I tried to get off them by titrating the dose.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I went to these specialists, I flew around the world,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: and I could lower it to seven point five to
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: five to two point five. With the minute I went lower.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: In the two point five, the panic attacks were coming back,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: and I went back on. So in about twenty ten,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I heard about a book called The Pleasure Trap by
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: doctor Lyle, doctor Goldhammer, my two mentors and now friends,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: and I read the book. It's a great book, by
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: the way, about addiction and more. And I found that
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: doctor Goldhammer had this center in Santa Rosa, California, and
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: that if you fill out the form online you can
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: have a free console. So I did that and I said, listen,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I'm on this psychiatric medicine. I'd really prefer not to
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: be on it. Can you help me? I was fat,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: but that's not not yet. But it's interesting because that
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: opened the door because then I met the secret weapon,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: him and doctor Lyle, and he said, yeah, you're going
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: to come to the center and I'm going to put
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: you on disability. We're going to fast you for six
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: weeks and we'll get you off the meds.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I get to True North Martin Luther King Junior Birthday
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: weekend of twenty eleven. I go with a friend of mine,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Tim for support and my service Doug sparky, and the
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: first thing you do before you water fast is see
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: one of the actual medical doctors. He said, can't fast
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: on psychments, so couldn't fast. They did a juice fast,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: you know. But the thing is is what happened is
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: I met doctor Doug Lyle, who is the best. You
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: should interview him.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: He is so I'd love to have him. I've heard
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: him speak many times. I love the book. The book
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: has come out many times.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: And you know the book is going to be on
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: audio now. And guess who got to record it?
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: You. Yes, I was chosen. I know. That's like the
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: big that's like the biggest feather in my cap that
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I was because.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: It's a full circle moment for you.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Well it is, because it was like neither of them
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: wanted to do it, but the publisher needed the book
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: out and because I relatively understood the material, they let
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: me do it. So it was really very nice.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: So this is twenty eleven, Yeah, January, even that's not
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: that long ago. I thought like this went way back
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: for you, much further back.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Well, trauma and drama goes further back, but this turning
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: point for you, no, it's much more recent than I recall,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I'm the nuvau Finn. I've only been thin for about
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: six years now. So yeah. So I met doctor Lyle,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: who's who's fabulous and I love his book and his
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: lectures and I actually had a, you know, an individual
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: appointment with him then and again we still hadn't talked
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: about weight loss. Then it was just about can you
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: help me with my panic disorder? And he helped me
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: more in that one session. Then all the doctors did.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: My whole life was up there for the session or
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: was that on the phone up there.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Because he works there. He works there and he works
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: at the McDougal program, both in Santa Rose. And he
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: gave me some really good techniques explaining what panic disorder was,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: and he really helped me. So I still could not
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: yet get off medication. I tried, and then it was
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: now September of that year and what happened. And this
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: is interesting because I really believe that sometimes when things
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: in life, and you might believe this too, there's no
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: real accidents, is sometimes when things are difficult and painful
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: in the moment, you look back and you go, wow,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: that was really a blessing. So we're now talking in
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: my life. Yeah right, yeah, So September of twenty eleven, like,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: I was really embarrassed that I was on psych meds
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: and I didn't want anybody to know. I felt that
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: as a personal failure, like that, what's wrong with me
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: that I have to take these drugs and what's wrong
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: with me that I can't get off of them? Because
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: they tell you they're not addictive, but they are because
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: you can't get off of them. So in September of
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: twenty eleven, I got a job as chef aj like
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: doing a really cool presentation at a high end kind
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: of thing. And I got there and I was going
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: to be there for almost a week in New York work,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: and I forgot my meds. And my doctor, of course
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: would have written a prescription for me and I could
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: have got them, but the people that I were staying
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: with said, oh, no problem, so and so their neighbor
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: was a pharmacist, Just tell me what you need and
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: we'll get it for you. And I was too embarrassed.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: As it turns out, I'm I was on thyroid meds too,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: so I just said, well this, well, after not taking
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: them for a week, you go through it's hot that's
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: not the way to get off psych meds. By the way,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: It's sort of like if.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: You ever were you weed down to a pretty I
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: was back up to ten.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: I was back up to ten. If you ever saw
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: those dolls, they're like gray and they're rubber, and you
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: squeeze them and their eyes pop out and their ears
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: pop out. When you go off psych meds like that,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: you actually it's almost like you feel your brain wiring
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: and it's not a pleasant thing, and like you have
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: to kind of lay there in the dark. And it
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: was a horrible, horrible experience. But I was so embarrassed.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I went through this and Doug Lyle, doctor Lyle, really
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: helped me through it. He called my husband. I was
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: it was not pretty going through this detox, but after
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: I got through it, just like anything else, you know
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: that withdrawal sucks.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: So but you were staying with people at the time,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: staying with people, and that you didn't tell them that
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: this was going on. It was embarrassed.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I was too embarrassed. I was. I was still able
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: to be I was able to do my job and
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: I was able to do it well. But the rest
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: of the time I just kind of laid there like
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: in a fetal position, just feeling my brain just go crazy.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: But I got through it, and just the same thing,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: whether it's drugs or alcohol or food. Withdrawal is a bitch,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: but addiction, I think is worse. Actually, But when you
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: get through it, you know what it's like. I mean,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: have you ever met anybody in recovery from anything that
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: ever said you know it was much better back then? No,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: So I was off it and it was great, And
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: by now I had some techniques, some actual cognitive behavioral
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: techniques that I learned from doctor Lyle about what to
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: do when I had a panic attack. Right, okay, For example,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: all the other doctors said, oh, you need to meditate,
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: you need to breathe. Well, when you're in the throes
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: of a panic attack, you can't all of a sudden
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: ask your body to relax. So doctor Lai would say, no,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: what you do is you run in place. You do
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: jumping decks the panic disorders, like there's a lion, you
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: need to run. I was what they there's fight, flight
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: or freeze. I was a freezer and doctor Lyle taught me, no,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: you have to run. I go. But what happens when
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: I'm having you know I'm in the car. He goes,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: you just squeeze your arms like this with the steering wheel.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: So I was able to use the techniques he taught me.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: And what happened is do I still get panic attacks occasionally,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: but the stakes have to be high now, Like like
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: there was a pit bull in the neighborhood coming towards me.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: I got a panic attack, but a regular person might
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: have too. Right, I was in a car accident a
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: couple of years ago. I got a panic attack, but
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not having them with the threat exactly. But whereas before,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: nothing would happen and so so yeah, so that's what happened.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: So I was using doctor Lyle really for panic disorder
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: and psychiatric medication withdrawal. He told me to read a
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: book called Anatomy of an Epidemic, which explains that these
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: medicines not only don't work most of the time, but
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: actually are harmful, and that trials clinical trials, placebo was
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: more effective. And so if I had read that book,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I would not have chow to go on meds. But
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: I was starting to work as chef aj in the
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Vegan World conference here and there, Doctor McDougall had had
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: me a couple of times. And in the weekend after
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Thanksgiving twenty eleven, doctor r Lyiah and I we'd become friendly.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: We were on a job together and at a break
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: I said to him, I said, Doug, we're good to Colm. Doug,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I said, I know that you hear this all the time,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: because now by then I was eating a really health
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: promoting diet. By the way, I need to backtrack a
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: little bit from August first, two thousand and eight, when
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: I first heard doctor Esselson speak, I stopped eating sugar,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: oil and salt. I was eating a health promoting diet.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: And I wasn't eating the mass copious amounts of candies, cakes, cookies, pies,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: and ice creams. I was able to make rich dat
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: nut treats, but I wasn't eating sugar oil salt. But
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: I was still fifty pounds heavier. And I couldn't figure
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: out why. I know now why it's in the book.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: But I said to him, I said, Doug, I said,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: I swear to you, I'm not cheating. I'm eating a
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: whole food diet. I don't eat sugar oil salt. Why
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: am I so fat? And he basically sat me down
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: and explained calorie density to me, which.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Is yeah, and this has become your thing. I mean,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I've seen you give your your keynote presentation many times
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: and it's super powerful, but it's also like oh yeah, duh,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: you know, like it's so elementary in many ways, but
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: I think the concepts elude most people. So so you know,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: walk us through that, because I think it's really important information.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Right well, but no one, and also sorry to like,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: but I think, you know, it helps with this confusion
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: that you've lived through between what it means to eat
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: a vegan diet and what it means to eat a
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: whole food plant based diet, and what it means to
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: eat like, you know, the ultimate sort of health promoting longevity,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: promoting disease reversing type of diet.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Because those are very different things and I've been through
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: them all, you know, so yes, thank you. That's a
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: great question. So I was eating a whole food plant
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: based diet without sugar, oil, salt. I wasn't cheating, but
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: not having understood coloric density, I was eating way too
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: much of the whole plant foods that were calorically dense,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: such as the nuts, the seeds, the avocados, and the
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: dried fruit and there's nothing wrong with those fruits, and
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: athletes such as yourself, you need those calories. But somebody
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: that's a female, and as doctor Goldhammer says, females are
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: energy conserving, estrogen producing fat storage machines, and somebody that
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: was already fat didn't need so many calories from those
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: calorically dense foods, even though they have nutrients and they
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: have fiber. And when doctor Lyle explained to me what
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: doctor McDougall had been saying for forty years, but for
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: some reason it eluded me until it was like face
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: to face and he explained it to me. The concept,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: at least for me, the fat you eat is the
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: fat you wear. And yes, there are people that can
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: eat more fat and not be fat, but if you're fat,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: it might not be you. When I ate a more
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: mcdougle type diet, you know, and didn't add any fats, like,
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: the weight just came off. It was so weird because
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: I wasn't even eating that many nuts. I was weighing
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: and measuring an ounce a day, thinking I needed them
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: or I would die without them. And I remember it
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: was so funny because for the doctor Lyle, he's funny.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: He tricks you into doing things he has you do
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: with these experiments. And so he said to me, he goes,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: you know, just for a month, I want you to
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: not eat any added fat, no nuts. You know, just
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: for a month, I want you to do it. And
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I go, that's can I say bullshit or yes? And
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I said, that's bullshit, Doug. I said, that's not.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Going to work.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: You know, nuts are healthy, you got to have them.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: All the doctors are saying you got to have at
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: least this much. He said, just do it for a month.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I said, you know what, You're so stupid. I don't
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: know if I said stupid, I said, I said, you're wrong.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do this for three months. I'm not
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: going to start until January second, twenty twelve, because that's
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: when I get back from True North. I work there
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: every Christmas as a guest chef. And I'm going to
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: do it for three months because I'm going to do
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: it till my birthday and show you that I'm not
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: going to lose any weight. Then on my birthday, I'm
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: going to have a rich date nut dessert and gon, well,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: guess what, Doctor Lyle's always right, And he was right,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: and I was losing a pound a week doing that.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: I couldn't believe how easy it was. Because now I
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: was eating more food, but coloquially dilute food, and in
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: my opinion, better food because I was eating like lots
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: of potatoes and sweet potatoes and rice and bean, so
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: I was filling up. I was less hungry and eating
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: bigger volumes of food that had less calories. And it's like,
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: like you said, it's so it's so obvious, but it
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: does elude people.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Right, So you mentioned the McDougall type dies for somebody
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: who's listening who doesn't know who John McDougall is and
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: kind of what he stands for, maybe it's worth flushing
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: that out.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll sing a little ditty because the last
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: time I was on I sang the Goldhammer song. So
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: you remember, Oh I did I remember that? You let
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: me sing the gold Haammer song again. John McDougall has
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: a plan based on carbo hi drates. If you eat them,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: you'll be trim and not have ass or thigh. Wait.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: John McDougall, he's the man, he's the smartest playte Eating
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: starch will make you thin. Just eat a Dampa teto. So, yeah,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: I didn't write the melody. Obviously it's yanky doodle.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: But so so here's where things get get sticky for
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, and this comes up
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: all the time in the podcast, like right now. You know,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: there's a there's a lot of uh talk and energy
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: behind this idea that carbohydrates are terrible. You should be
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: eating a low car no car potentially even ketosis high
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: fat type diet which is in total you know, juxtaposi
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: contra contraposition to where John McDougall is coming from who
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: you know, who's basically his basic principle is wor starts
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: of wards and we should be eating these complex carbohydrates
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: in natural food form.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with him. You know, I'm run a
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: program in LA and actually online too called the Ultimate
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Weight Loss Program. And I have people now that have
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: lost one hundred to three hundred pounds and kept it
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: off for like five years eating nothing but carbohydrates. So
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: to me, and a diet not high in carbohydrates would
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: be not fun. It would it would be sad, it
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: would be deprivation. And you know, potatoes make you thin.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, didn't you interview or did I had and
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: going to say, yeah, so, how the heck did he
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: lose one hundred and twenty pounds just eating potatoes? I mean,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: they really are the perfect food for health and weight loss.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: You know, according to something called the Satiety Index, they
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: are the most satisfying food in the world potatoes.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Because they're filling, they're so filled. Also nutrient dense. Absolutely,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: they have a lot more nutrients in them than people realize.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: We started thinking of them as a junk food, like, oh,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: it's a white food, like it's just calories without any
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: vitamins and minerals. But it's actually had a lot of
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: good stuff in it. But to be clear, you know,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: we need to kind of define our terms. And when
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: you say carbohydrate, that doesn't mean yeah, that doesn't mean
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: you know what flower sugar, alcohol like wheat pasta.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: And exactly, I mean whole, unrefined complex carbohydrates, whole grains
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: in their whole form, not processed into a flower, legumes, beans,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: split peas, lentils in their whole form cooked with water,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: and potatoes, sweet potatoes and winter squashes. These are the
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: foods that our ancestors ate throughout most of human history
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: that are still eating parts of the world today that
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: are free of the diseases like obesity and heart disease
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: that play us. I mean, the oak and islands, according
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: to the Blue Zones are the longest lived people in
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: the world. Don't They eat something like over seventy percent
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: of their calories from sweet potatoes. So these are foods
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: that make you thin. The problem is people are adding
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: things like oil to them for French fries and chips,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: and that's the problem. It's not the carbohydrate, it's the fat,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: the cheese, the butter, the oil that people add to
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: it that make them fat and sad.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: So let's get back to this idea of caloric density.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: You know, when you give your talk, you always have
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: these the jars.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I almost brought them by the.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Jars, And you also have these charts where you show
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: what a stomach looks like. Here's a stomach with you know,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: tons of vegetables and it's completely full, you know, more
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: vegetables then you could possibly sit down and eat until
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: you're completely stuffed. And then the caloric equivalent of that
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: is you know, I don't know, like you know, an
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: ounce of oil in your stomach. It's like a little
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: like it just looks like a tiny little bit of
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: your stomach.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe two and a half tablespoons. Yeah, it's like it
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: doesn't even show up.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: It puts it into perspective in terms of calories. So,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: on the one hand, you have these foods that are
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: super high in fiber, minerals, vitamins, phytronutrients, micronutrients, all those
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: things that you need and want and that we're always
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: trying to get. And then on the other hand you
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: have well's there's a little what's wrong with a little
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: bit of olive oil? Right? But you when you see that,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: you realize like, oh wow, it's so you know, a
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: food like olive oil is so calorically dense and so
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: nutrient poor that it seems harmless that when you kind
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: of look at it through that lens you can kind
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: of you have this sort of awakening moment where you're like, oh,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: now I get it.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Well, also, it has no fiber. That's the most important
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: thing probably, you know, Doctor Goldhammer always says that foods
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: like sugar, oil, and salt, they're not really food. They're
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: not found in nature in any concentrated form, and they
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: fool our brain satiety mechanisms and cause us to overeat exponentially.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: The thing is is you don't sense any fullness from
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: olive oil. So if I were to make you a
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: meal of like a gluten free pasta, brown rice pasta
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: with steam vegetables in an oil free marinara, you could
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: have a very nice, big serving of food for about
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: five hundred calories. If you eat that same meal at
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: a restaurant where there'll be about five hundred calories from oil,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: from the sauce, from the pasta, from the vegetables, you
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: don't experience any more fullness. They've done studies that show
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: that the extra calories from oil are insidious. They slip
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: under the radar, undetected by the mechanisms of stretch, nutrient
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: and calorie receptors. And so you know, I remember when
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I stopped using oil in two thousand and eight. I
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: didn't tell my husband because he didn't need to know.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I make his breakfast, lunch, send his lunch to work,
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: and make his dinner. So I stop using it not
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: because of coloroak density, because doctor Esselson said it creates
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: heart disease, diabetes, and obesity. Everybody in my family was
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: dying or dead from heart disease. And I figured, well,
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: why would I do this? And you don't miss it
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: because you can make food delicious without it. Well, you
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: can use the nuts and seeds if you want. So,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: about seven months after stopping oil, my husband had to
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: go to a formal event. And he's thin, six feet,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty pounds and he doesn't normally wear
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: a belt. But seven months after stopping oil, we had
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: to go to this event and he went to put
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: his belt on and now he can't attach it, there's
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: no more holes. He goes, oh, I must have cancer.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: I'm losing all this weight, and he got on the
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: scale he had lost like.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Eight pounds without trying, without.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Trying, without even knowing. So he was being experimented on
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: against his will. So if somebody that doesn't want to
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: lose weight, that doesn't need to lose weight, will lose
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: weight that effortlessly just by stopping oil, imagine what could
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: happen if people actually did it on purpose.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: To be fair, there is a little bit of an
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: adjustment if you're used to eating foods with tons of oil,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: and you know, and like lots of sugar or you know,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: salt and the like, like you do I don't know
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: if I would call it a detox, but you have
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: to like go through a period where you adjust, just
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: like you would when you're switching from milk to almond
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: milk or something like that. Like what I found though,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: And I'm not completely oil free, but you're not. But
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: like when I'm not working out a lot, like if
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not careful, I'll put on weight and then I
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: have to go and then I have to be more conscious.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: And I'm consciously aware of those kinds of things than
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: I am when I'm out there crushing it all the time.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: So you know, I'm very intimately familiar with this and
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: I've seen how it works in my own life. But
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: I think it's you know, it's important to just acknowledge, like, Okay, yeah,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: it's going to taste a little bit, is it great?
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Doesn't be a little bit different, But like, honestly, if
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: you just go two weeks or you know, I don't know,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: a week, whatever, everybody's probably a little bit different. When
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: you complete that cycle, you know, it's not really a detox,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: but it's an adjustment. Then you land in a place
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: where like, oh I don't I don't know the difference
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: it I can't tell I don't miss it anymore, But
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: you have to go through that perio, right, and most
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: people just they just don't want to do it.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Well, they don't want to do it. You're so right.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Most people will not go through the pain of detoxification
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: to that.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Painful It's like, Okay, it tastes a little bit different.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Maybe it doesn't taste quite as amazing as I'm used to,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: But like, you know, is it really that big of
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: a deal.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: You're talking about a concept that doctor Goldhammer in his
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: book The Pleasure Trap calls neurological adaptation neuroadaptation, and it's
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: this and that will happen. The other thing people don't
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: understand is the role of a neurotransmitter called dopamine in
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: this equation. Dopamine is a trans neurotransmitter. This release when
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: we have a pleasurable experience, such as eating or having sex,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: and all eating stimulates the production of dopamine in our brain.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Even kale steam kale at one hundred calories of pounds
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: stimulate the production of dopamine, But the more colorically concentrated
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: the calories, the more dopamine is released. Well, oil is
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: the most colorically concentrated food on the planet. It's four
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: thousand calories per pound, forty times as colorically dense as kale.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: And since most people aren't doing much in life to
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: feel good like you and me, like exercising regularly or
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: doing volunteer work, they're relying on these high fat, high
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: calorie foods to medicate to feel good. So if you
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: take away the most colorically dense food, they're going to
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: feel bad because they're not having their drug.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's why when you challenge the high fat camp,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: they get so testy.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to show you. I didn't bring my shot.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: You're basically you're threatening to take away that dopamine.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: I get people that come to me and they go, oh,
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: I'm Greek, I'm Italian, I you know, I olive oils
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: in my blood, and so I'll pour them a cup
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: and og here drink it. They won't. You'll vomit if
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: you drink it. It's because people are looking to food
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: to medicate, to celebrate, and they're not, like you say,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: they're not dealing with what's really going on. And that's
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: really what it is is. It's because I would challenge
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: you that I could make the food taste delicious without
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: oil because I was a restaurant chef that didn't use oil.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: I think some of my recipes are that good, but
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: what they're missing is the high hit of dopamine.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: I oh, sorry, no, what you got there?
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Well, it's just funny because I didn't bring my jars.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I brought you. I brought all these snacks.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: So again, I recently spoke at a Vedge fest and
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: I had to take two planes on Southwest because there
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: wasn't a direct flight. So on the first leg of
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: the flight, they gave me this, and on the second
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: leg they gave me this. Right, so now rich crackers
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: and peanuts. Now this food that I can fit in
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: the palm of my both basically in the palm of
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: my hands. This is over a thousand calories. What I
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: eat for lunch, which is usually like two pounds of
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: potatoes or sweet potatoes baked into fries or roast it.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: And a pound of broccoli has less calories than this. Right,
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: It's like this huge plate of food, and this is
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: and people think nothing of eating this on their flights.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Just a little sack.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's probably thirty I don't a lot. It's
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: a lot of fat. This is nothing.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: And you can have so many fruits and vegetables and
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: whole grains and lugumes and rice and beans for the
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: same amount and processed.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Food, right. You know, people say to me all the
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: time like aren't you just starving all the time? But
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: oh my god, I eat massive amounts of food, you know,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: like gigantic. You know, A'll eat like five potatoes and
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: all eat you know, just unbelievable scenes and like I'm
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: full all the time. I know.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: It's so fun. And people if they until they really
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: understand colora density and actually implement it, they don't realize
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: that as slender people, we can eat so much more food.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: We can take in twice as much food, but yet
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: still consume half as many calories. And again, doctor Rules
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: is the one that discovered this at Penn States. She
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: wrote a series of books on it. I didn't I
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: didn't discover calories. I mean I discovered it. I didn't
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: invent it. I just honed it for people that especially
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: want to be plant based.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: I just help them to understand. What what I like
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: about your story is is that there's this evolution, like
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: you're you're like a chef in the in the plant
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: based world, in the vegan world, like you're you're doing
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: cooking demonstrations at True North before you're actually fully understanding
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: kind of what you talk about right now, Like so
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: this didn't happen overnight. You were immersed in this subculture,
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: and yet still you weren't fully clicking with what needed
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: to be done to get your own health under control.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: I think doctor Goldhammer again, him and doctor Lyles, almost
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: like a conspiracy, a friendly one. He tricked me, because
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: you know, when I arrived at True North, you know,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: fifty pounds heavy. He didn't say, you know you're fat,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: don't be you know, don't be doing cooking demos. But
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: he said something like, and I can't remember exactly, but
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: he said something like, you know, you're already very talented.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: You're very talented chef. He goes, And we judge a
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: chef's talent by how they can concentrate things like sugar,
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: fat and salt. And he goes, you know, but if
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: you got skinny, you would rule the world. He goes,
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: you're already a bitch, but if you were a skinny bitch,
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: and so he did sort of like like the whitewashing
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: the fence with the Tom Sawyer, you know, remember, like
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: where they made it seem like a chore was fun.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: And he made it seem like it was going to
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: be so great to be thinner for for just in general.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: And and that he could actually help me do it,
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: like he really gave me hope, like that he could
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: actually explain to me how to do it. And and
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: empowering you rather than shaming it exactly. And and and
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: I started those two guys that are like my brothers, man.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, like if I hadn't met them, I don't
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: know where my life would be.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: How long were you a True North?
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: I was only there eight days the first time, but
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: I've since been back every year, several times a year,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: not as a patient, but as a visiting chef.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Right, all right, So a couple questions about this. First
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: of all, for people that are listening, true True North
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: is the same facility that you saw in What the Health?
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: If you watch that movie.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: And getting ready for another song?
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: Sorry, are you going to sing a song?
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: I'm teasing?
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: And if you saw that movie, you recall there's a
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: couple of cases he's in the documentary where there's people
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: that are on all kinds of crazy meds and they're overweight.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: There was that person who could barely walk and then
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: you see kind of what happens after however long their
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: tenure was there where they seem to be doing much better.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: But that's the same place, and it's also the home
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: of Michael Clapper, right.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: He's recently left. He was there for seven years and
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: now he's he just retired from True North in December.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: But there's other.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Wonderful he's a wonderful Oh.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. They have doctor lim Now who is the medical
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: director of the mcdogle program there. They have doctor Peters Sultana,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: they have doctor Soleroi. So they have other wonderful medical
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: doctors and natural paths.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: All right. One thing I'm interested in what goes on
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: there has to do with the fasting aspect of I mean,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: we're seeing emerging science that is speaking to the health
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: benefits of intermittent fasting and what can be achieved. But
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: there's also you know, look, this can go wrong also
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: there's people that don't do this properly and they get
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: sick or you know, potentially suffer some nasty consequences. So
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: what is the what is the relationship of the fasting
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: aspect to the rest of what goes on.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: So it is a medically supervised, therapeutic water only fasting center.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: It's been there for over thirty two years, founded by
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: doctor Allan Goldhammer and his wife, doctor Jennifer Morano. However,
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: not everybody that goes their fasts. There are people like
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: me that medically cannot fast. There are people there that
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: don't want to fast, maybe because it's too scary or
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: too hard. So they have two other levels of care.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: One is that you can do a juice fast, which
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: I think could be safe for people sometimes to do
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: at home. I would never recommend people do a water
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: fast without medical supervision because they check on you all
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: the time. They're checking your blood pressure, they're checking your temperature,
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: they're checking your blood and your urine. So I personally
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: would not recommend people water fasting at home. And they
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: fast people up to forty days.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: Believe it or not, that's wild.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: Even slender people for certain medical conditions water only water only.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: Many people in the plant based movement, like doctor Esselston
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: and doctor Campbell have actually gone there and fasted. I
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: remember doctor Campbell had that agent orange or something, and
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: true North actually helped his recovery. So you get a
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: lot of famous people there, not just in plant based
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: but like in the real celebrity world too, because they
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: help people with certain conditions like type two diabetes, autoimmune disease,
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: heart disease, almost every condition get better and get better faster,
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: and doing this by the complete abstinence of food except
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: for pure distilled water and complete rest. And so that's
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: their highest level of care, and that's why most people
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: seek them out. But then again, not everybody can or
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: will fast. But even if you do fast, you can't
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: you have to eat at some point you have to
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: go home eating. So if you fast, you have to
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: have at least half that much time to refeed. You
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: can also go there as an unrestricted feeder, which is
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: the funnest and that's what I go, which means all
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: you do is eat the food three times a day.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: Buffets set up in caloric density. All you can eat
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: delicious food by Chef Bravo and Chef Mauricio, and people
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: still get well. People still get well just eating this
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: SOS free, low fat, whole food, plant based diet. They
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: have lectures twice a day ten o'clock and two o'clock.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: And when I'm there during Christmas three times a day.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Sometimes they'll have.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: It go every year.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: I've been going every year for eight years and it's
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: and I'm like that, I'm.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Like, what do you still get out of it?
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Just? Oh, community, you know, having the childhood that I had,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: Holidays are very painful for me. Most of my family
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: is dead, and so it's like it's a place to go.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: So I've been going there every year for Christmas anywhere
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: from ten days to five weeks, and we do the
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: holidays there and we have camaraderie and game. I'm like
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: the social director, so we have the best time. And
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: it's some people do fast at the holidays, but most
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: the people don't, and we have special demos and iron
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: chef competitions. I get out of going just it's like
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: going home. It's like it's the home I ever had,
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: and it's a privilege and an honor to be able
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: to do that. So a lot of people just do
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: unrestricted feeder. You know. It's so funny because I remember,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: even though it's been years since I've been on your podcast,
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: people found out about True North because I sang that song.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: People were a True North from hearing me on your podcast,
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: So the ripple effect is incredible there. So you have
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: these levels of care. And you know what's interesting is
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: doctor Golden And will probably get mad at me for
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: saying this because he's always full. But I had to
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: attend a wedding in the Napa Valley and Doctor Goldhammer
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: charges less a day than any hotel, So I just
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: stayed there for three days with my husband and used
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: it as a hotel and got all my meals and
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: it's pet friendly under certain circumstances. Yeah, so people if
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: doctor Pam Popper says she does the same thing, because
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: we're also going to get food like that, and people,
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: you get the education, you get the camaraderie. It's about
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: a half a mile away from where doctor McDougal runs
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: his program. His program doesn't run all year round like
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: True North. It's an incredible experience and if if I
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: could have one wish for anyone that was struggling with
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: any kind of lifestyle disease or weight issue, if they
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: could just experience the level of healing that goes on there,
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: it would make all the difference in the world to them.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: But for somebody who who can't find their way there.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, you've worked with I don't know, two thousand
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: people at this point, helping them learn how to lose
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: weight and keep it off. And I kind of want
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: to get into, you know, some of the strategies that
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: you've employed, like what works, what doesn't and you explain
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: all of this in the book Secret What is it
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: that Secret Secrets Ultimate Weight Loss.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: I don't have the book, but I have it's it's
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: the covering by the GOP.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: It should be out. There's nothing inside. No, we're not
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: doing a book, We're just doing a.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Cover, right, So so uh, I mean that's a that's
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: a that's a huge, you know, test group of people
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: that you've worked with. Right, So before we dig into
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: the specifics, because I want to talk about travel and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: expend time and all that kind of stuff, but what
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: have you learned that might be non obvious to somebody
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: listening about, like what doesn't work and what works that that?
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Like you just wish people, really, I.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Wish people would know if they're struggling and I think
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: you probably know this is it if you're an addict
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: of any moderation never works, And they knew that exactly.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: I think it was the seventeenth century. The eighteenth century,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: there was a saint named Saint Augustine who said that
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: complete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation. And if people
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: could understand that moderation really rarely works for anyone, but
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: it's never worked for an addict. And that is the
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: hardest concept rich for people to grasp, is the concept
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: of abstinence, because people don't like that concept. It's scary,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: it's going to be difficult if they only knew that
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: that's where the healing lies, where that's where everything you
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: ever wanted for your health, your weight in your life
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: lies in this concept. But because there is so much
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: confusion around certain foods because and again I love all
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: the plant based doctors, but they're not food addicts. They've
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: never been overweight. So when they say, yeah, a little
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: salt's okay, a little sugar's okay, a little flower's okay,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: it's okay for them. But if you're the person that's
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: overweight and struggling and having cravings, it's not you. So
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: you have to know who you are.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that that you're absolutely correct about that.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: And I think what happens when you put that word
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: abstinence in front of somebody, their whole life forecasts in
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: front of them, and they're they're seeing themselves at a wedding,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: you know, somebody's getting married that they haven't even met yet.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: You know, like they're just future tripping on some situation
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: that may not even occur and imagining, well, how am
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: I ever going to get through that I can't do
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: It's impossible.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: They won't even try it, right, That's why one day
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: at a time came.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: So that's what I'm getting at. Like, the core principle
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: is cheesy and as trite as it sounds, of one
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: one day at a time is so powerful because when
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: you think about it, it's it's it's very Buddhist in
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: its nature. It's like, what are you doing right now?
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: Like you know, okay, eat the cupcake tomorrow, total freedom,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: permission to eat that cupcake tomorrow. But you know what,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: when your head hits the pillow tonight, you will have
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: followed you know, AJ's protocol or whatever, like just get
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: through today, make the best choices that you can, and
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: don't worry about what's going to happen tomorrow.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: It's so funny. I remember one of my first clients
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: and their struggle was cheese actually, which is also another
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: addictive substance. It's an animal product of processed food, cazomorphines,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: opiate in the brain kind of thing. And they say, well,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: I can't do this, and I'm like, well why. They go, well,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: I can't be expected to go to France and not eat.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: The cheese, right, It's just a story. No.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: But then I said, well, when are you going to France?
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: And they go, well, I'm not. I go when have
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: you ever been to France? They go, I have it.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: They go, well, do you have any plans like in
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: the next year ago, Well, no, I can't even afford
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: to go to France. But the point was is addicts.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: You know Addix, Well, you're going to throw up that barret,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: You're going to throw up You're going to think of
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: every reason possible to protect that that you know, to
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: covet that behavior pattern, And that's addiction in a nutshell
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: like that's like okay, well, yeah, only an attic would
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: say that, right.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: I If I ever have time to write another book,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: it'll be about some of the excuses that I hear
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: why people can't do this, because that's what addics do.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: They make excuses, and you know you can't have both
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: excuses and results at the same.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: Time, right, Yeah, it's just or even you know, take
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: France out of it all together, and it's just you
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: have a cheese. I can't I could never give up cheese.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: And it's like, okay, well, let's let's dissect that statement
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: a little bit, like what are you really saying, Like
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: you're just you're holding on to an idea that doesn't
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: serve you and you're scared. You're scared of the alternative
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: and what that might mean for you. But you've actually
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: never trodden that path yet, so you actually really don't know.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: And you're you're you've created this story and you've given
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: it so much power, but you've never actually tested the
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: veracity of it, you know. And so it's about encouraging people.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: And I think a big piece of that is is
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: the empowerment thing. You know, like had he said something
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: different to you about your weight, it might have been,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: you know, a very different story for you. Right, So
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: the psychology of this is super important, and how you
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: communicate with people, that's.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: The hard piece. That's why for everyone to doctor Lyle,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: because I'm more like doctor Goldhammer, like this is the
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: way it is, Just do it and you'll be fine.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: And I and doctor Y intellectual.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: Exercise, but you know that as an addict, like it's
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: not it's not the information, that's not what catalyzes change.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: You know, it's so much more complicated and nuanced than that.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think at the end of the day, most
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: addicts don't want to give up their drug. Yeah, of course,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: and then it would Yeah it's friend, Yeah exactly. And
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: I think often you have to hit rock bottom, you know,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: in my case, And I forgot to mention this. This
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: was also a subset of the meeting Doctor Goldhammer. When
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: I broke my knee when I was fifty almost fifty
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: years old, in February of twenty ten. You know, I
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: was one hundred and sixty five pounds and I was
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: too fat for crutches, or at least I couldn't use crutches.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: I didn't have the upper body strength, and I was
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: in a wheelchair for three months, and I couldn't take
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: care of my daily needs. Mean, I couldn't go to
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: the bathroom myself. And it's very embarrassing. And I said
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: to me, and that was that was almost more of
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: my rock bottom than even attempting suicide, because to me,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: having somebody help you go to the bathroom, especially if
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: that's your husband, is the most humiliating thing in the world.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: And I said that I am going to do something
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: about this. I do not want to be that person
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: that has to have somebody wipe their ass. That was
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: just so degrading to me. And luckily that I soon
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: soon thereafter met doctor Goldhammer. And all the other thing
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: is they wanted to do surgery and I'm afraid. I'm
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: deathly afraid of anesthesia. I had almost died when I
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: was nineteen, is an allergic reaction, And so that was
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: the other reason. Because pain is a huge motivator. And
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: here I am working as a pastry chef, you know,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: you know, eight hours a day, and my knee would
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: just swell up. So there was a lot of forces
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: that came together to get me where I Yeah.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: Two observations about that. I mean, the first thing is, yes,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: pain is a phenomenal motivator. It's the only thing that's
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: ever gotten me to change anything, you know. And the
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: tragedy in that, of course, is that you don't need
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: to be in pain to make a change. But it
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: goes back to that intellectualization of everything, like pain can
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: be your best friend because it can be the spark
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: that can ignite you to blaze a new path. And
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: so when I see somebody who's in pain or who's
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: in suffering, who's suffering, your instinct as a human being,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: as a compassionate person, is to try to alleviate their pain, Right,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: how can I make them feel better and more comfortable?
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: But you know, I think that that often the more
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: compassionate response to that is to say to is to
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: refrain from that instinct and allow them to have that
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: pain moment because that could be their divine moment. Let
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: them know that you're there for them, that you believe
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: in them, that you see them, but don't try to
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: ease it for them, because that is the crucible that
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: can forge a brand new life. It's hard to do that.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: I have, you know doctor Goldhammer's voice in my head.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: It's too It's he's very compelling, like he says things
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: with such force and assuredness. And one of the things
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: he says a lot, you know, people will ask him questions, well,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: you know how much how much meat can I have? Done?
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: You know, like they're morbidly obese on twenty medications. You know,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: how much meat can I have? How much cheese? How
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: much wine? And he goes how fat and sick do
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: you want to be? And so whenever I'm faced with
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: like a choice that could lead me there, I literally
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: hear him saying that, you know, how fat and sick
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: do I want to be? I don't want to be
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: fat or sick anymore. I've been both and I'm prefer
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: being slender. And well it's so awesome. I mean that's
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: the other thing. You know, Like a lot of people say, well,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: absence isn't sustainable, right have you ever heard that? Like, well,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: it's just not sustainable. You can't, you know, like how
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: can you be expected to go to a wedding and
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: not drink alcohol or go you know here and not
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: have that? And maybe it isn't sustainable for some people.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: But what I want people to know is the joy
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: of living is sustainable. And when you reverse a lifestyle disease,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: no matter how difficult it was, and when you are
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: in recovery from an addictive substance, the self esteem you feel,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: the joy you feel that's sustainable.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it builds, you know, and it gets better
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: and better. But it's it's experiential, like you can't you know,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: somebody has to have that experience for them.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: So there's no pill, there's no surgery for right.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: But we live in a culture that's all about that
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: pilled for every And you know, God bless doctor Goldhammer
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: for saying that we need a little truth talk here.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: And it's not about like, oh, take this or it's
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: going to be fine, Like, no, it's not going to
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: be fine. Actually, you know you're going to have to
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: like get uncomfortable. And you know what good things come
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: from discomfort. They're not just hand delivered to you the
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: way that you want them to. And the more people
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: can just acclimate to that reality, I think we'd be
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: better off as a culture, you know what I mean.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: All Right, So let's get into some of the things
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: you get into in the book, Like, you know, common
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: subjects that come up, excuses, concerns, the faq of being
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: plant based, like what do I do when I travel
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: or I have a dinner party, and like it's too
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: expensive and I'm going to have to live my life
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: in a kitchen. It's way too complicated. I don't understand
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: all of this, so, like, can we demystify something?
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: I recommend the instant pot, electric pressure cooker, or any
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: pressure cooker. Instant Pot's my favorite. Because the truth is
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: is you always whenever I hear you speak, you talked
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: about how you used to have the window diet, you know,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: the drive through. It's true that it's never going to
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: be as cheap or easy as going through a drive through.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: I agree, yes, The thing is is that it doesn't
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: have to be as complicated as people are making it.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: And the truth is, if they if they I realize
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: what they're eating. Now, let's say they're eating breakfast, lunch,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: and dinner for a month. They're eating thirty breakfasts, thirty lunches,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: and thirty dinners. And I would wager that no one
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: listening is eating thirty different breakfasts every day, even if
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: they're eating a horrible diet and thirty different lunches and
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: thirty different dinners. People find their favorites and their family's
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: favorites and they repeat them. Well, why can't you do
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: that with some plant based healthy options that you'll like
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: just as much you like a hamburger. Try my Chipotle beanburger, delicious.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: All my recipes are tests and on regular people, you
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: can find a few recipes that will become your favorites
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: and repeat them. The other thing is is if people
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: would understand that the simpler you eat, the easier this is.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: And so where as many people are looking, well, I
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: need a recipe, I need a recipe. You need to
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: learn to eat food and just having rice and beans
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: over greens and salsa it's delicious. I know you love
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: that meal.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: Four times.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, doctor Esselson loves that meal. It's a I mean,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: I teach in Mexico. Everybody that lives in Mexico loves
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: that meal. It's food. Think about food instead of recipes.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Getting a pressure cooker can take away the argument of
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: time and money because when you cook things like beans
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: and grains from scratch, they're practically free. They're forty nine
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: cents a pound. But it also takes less time. You
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: can cook beans on the stove it'll take two and
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: a half hours pressure cooker ten to twenty minutes. So
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: it's true, it's like learning a new language. You have
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: to learn a new set of skills, but these are
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: not that difficult to learn for most people. And the
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: other thing is you can always get somebody to do
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: it for you. That's what doctor Lyle does. He has
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: a college or a high school student come and do
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: all his prep and then he just takes it out
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: of the fridge, you know. So it's harder than people
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: make it, you know what I'm saying now. Of course,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: I think the social aspect is always going to be
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: the hardest, especially if you're an extrovert, if you're an
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: outgoing person, because if you're doing something different than everybody else,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: that could cause you discomfort. You know, if you're the
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: only non drinker in a room full of drinkers, you know,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: people look at you like, well, what's the matter with you?
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: Why don't you drink? You know that kind of thing.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: And so that's I think the hardest thing for sometimes
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: people to navigate is the social aspay, Yeah, for sure.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing that that that leads people out
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: the door.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: Right exactly. I think that's the deal. You know, the traveling.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: You know, you travel full time. I travel full time.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: The traveling isn't that hard because we're eating food and
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: guess what they have food in other countries they actually
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: have food in airports. I mean, yeah, so maybe I
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: have to get white rice instead of brown rice. But
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: I've been on the road for seven years now to
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Mexico and Canada and the Caribbean, and I've always been
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: able to find food. And when it can't find food,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: I just take you with me.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, these are that involves a little bit of prep.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: I mean what happens with me is people are like,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: you know, like I'll be I'll fly to San Francisco,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: or I'll fly to Phoenix or you know, some flight
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: that's like an hour, two maybe even three hours, and
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: they're like, what did you would you eat an airport?
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: Would you in the plan? I was like, dude, it's
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: only like a couple hours, Like what are you going
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: to starve? Like I had a banana? People freak out,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: They're like what am I going to do? Like I'm
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: in this tube. I'm like, You're only in the tube
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: for an hour and a half, Like you know it's.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: Going to be They're scared they'll get hungry. That's the
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: other great thing that you learn it true North is
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: that hunger is not an emergency. And when you even
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: if you go there as a non faster because you
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: have roommates. Unless you want to do a buyout. You
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: always have at least one roommate in a different room, though,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: but you share a suite. When you see people there
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: that are slender, that are older than you, that are
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: fasting for forty days, you realize, you know, what, if
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: I can fly to New York to LA without eating
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: the peanuts, I'm not going to die. But for most people,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: hunger is an emergency. And I think part of it
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: is because they're on such a toxic diet that it
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: almost feels like an emergency because they need to get
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: that next fix of sugar, fat, and salt.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and those microbes in the gut signaling the brain
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: and further enhancing that craving. Yeah. I think, you know,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: beyond the kind of scientific benefits of fasting, I think
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: what's important about that is it really rearranges your relationship
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: with food in the sense that you begin to understand
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: that this three mails a day thing like doesn't necessarily
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: need to apply, like we're you'll be fine. You know,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: whatever is going on in your thinking brain or whatever
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: impulses are getting fired, those signals don't necessarily need to
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: be heated. You're not going to pass out. I mean,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: maybe some people do low blood sugar. I don't mean to,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: you know, minimize those sorts of things, but I think
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: in general it's important for people to recognize that the
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: way that we've been doing it for a long time
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: may not be the best way.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: I think for some people it really is like a
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: detoxification reaction. Rich because if you think about that, Americans
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: eat over ninety two percent of their calories from animal
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: products and processed food. They're eating a fibrileist diet with
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: no micronutrients, and they're always going to be driven to
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: overeat because they're really looking for food with nutrients. And
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: so I think part of it really is physiological that.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: Hum they're getting fat, that.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: They're starving right exactly, And so that's what part of
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: I think the discomfort is. It's not emotional, it's physiological
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: because they may have eaten two thousand calories from a
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: fat fast food restaurant, but their body is starving for
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: nutrients for fiber, and so they're always going to be
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: looking for more food. But then they keep making that
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: same choice.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: Right, all right, So I got a business lunch I
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: got to go meet with these guys. There's a big
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: deal on the line. They want to meet at Ruth
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: Chris's steakhouse. I have no say in this. I'm trying
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: really hard to be good, but I need to make
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: a good impression with these guys. I need them to
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: like me. Like I'm just going to have to eat
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: steak agent.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: No, steakhouses are the most vegan friendly places to eat.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: Believe it or not, I've often gotten healthier. No, I really,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: maybe I haven't been the last time I was in
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: a steakhouse. Well, I've been to Morton's because which I
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: don't know Ruth Chris, but I'm assuming I haven't seen
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: the menu. But in general, steakhouses can be the most
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: vegan friendly places, more so than vegans.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: Finally, well because if.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: You look at the think side. So first of all,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: when you're invited anywhere that you have no control over,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: look up the menu. I mean because if it's a
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: place that has more than I think two or three locations,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: the menu will be online. So first thing, look at
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: the menu, navigate the menu. The general, steakhouses have lots
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: of size of vegetables, and most of the time the
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: chef will either steam or roast the vegetables for you
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: without oil. You do need to sometimes call up a
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: head to be sure. The best time to call a
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: restaurant is during that window where after the lunch runch,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: lush lunch rush, before the dinner rush, and you know,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: call them up and say, look, you know, I'm sorry,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: I don't mean to be difficult. I've heard very good
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: things about your restaurant. I'm going to be there on
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: such and such a date, but I'm on a very
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: special diet doctor's orders, you know, Blame it on doctor Esselston.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: Can't have a drop of oil, and say is there
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: anything you can do to accommodate me? And instead of
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: saying well, you know, don't say like, well, I'm a
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: whole food plant phased being and I can't eat sugar, oil, saltflow.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: Just say what you can eat, you know. And so
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: a steakhouse generally can make you a baked potato. Now
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: sometimes they put oil on it, but you can ask
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: them not to. They can steam you some vegetables. Often
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: they have salsa as a condiment. So that's one trick
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: you can do. Navigate the menu. Like I've had clients
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: go to instaurants and oh, there's nothing I can eat.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: But then they realize, hey, you know what, they have
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: a spinach omelet. So then they say, hey, I notice
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: you have a spinach omelet. Can you hold the eggs?
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: Kind of like that jackerating?
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: All right, So that's the logistical tactics. But then we
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: have to deal with the peace social aspect.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: Of okay, So this is where everybody's going to be different.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: And doctor Lyle has a beautiful lecture on his website
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: esteam Dynamics dot com called the perfect personality, And it's
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: going to depend on how agreeable or disagreeable the person is. Now,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with that because I'm not
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: going to eat somebody doesn't want me to eat. Now,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: that doesn't mean I'm going to be rude or socially unacceptable.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: But what I might do, for example, one of the
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: strategies I might use if I'm in a corner, I
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: might say when I get there, I might say, oh,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: this looks delicious. I'm so sorry I had a late
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: lunch and can I just get a cup of tea?
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: Or I might say something I've used this a lot.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: I say, oh, guys, I'm so sorry, I'm having a
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: colonoscopy tomorrow, so I can't. I mean, I do that
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: a lot, or am I say, you know what, Oh
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: my god, I just came from the dentist with a
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: root canal my mouth is. I mean, there's ways you
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: can do it without a ending people for their choices, right,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: you know, you can order it and then excuse yourself
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: to go to the bathroom and come back and say,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm so sorry, I just had the
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: worst bout of diary and vomiting. I bet. I mean,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: it depends on where you want to go.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you could tell a white lie, but if
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: you don't want to lie, Doctor Lyle has some interesting
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: strategy around this as well, which is to just present
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: it in a very casual, you know way, to just say,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I'm trying this thing. I'm
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: trying to do this thing. I know it's crazy, probably
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: is not going to work whatever, you know, it's it's
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: doing okay, But like just deflate it. Don't be like, oh,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: well I'm doing this and this is the way you
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: can whatever. Like, just try to be as casual and
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: low key and perhaps self deprecating. It seems in that
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: regard and that and that really just diffuses everything. I've
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: never had a problem I have. I have battles in
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: my mind about this, like I trump it up to
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: be this big thing, but I've always been able. I mean,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: now it's you know, it's like, look, everybody knows you
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: don't have to tell white lies anymore. Everybody knows this
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: is it's going to go right, I mean standing with me,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: so like I don't really confront it any but I
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: did have to, you know, for a long time. So
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: my personal way of doing it is just to is
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: just to be super casual about it. And if you
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: are uncomfortable with that, like you can say you can
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: excuse yourself and say I'll be right back and go
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: in to the bathroom and find a waiter and go, hey,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. Can you do it?
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: Blah blah blah, and like that way you're having that
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: con you're not drawing I think people don't. They don't
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: want to draw that attention by themselves. They don't want
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: to be like that person who's like difficult. You know
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: that everyone's going to talk about after the lunch or
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: the dinner and just you know, kind of take care
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: of it in a in a quiet way and then
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: just be You know, you don't have to say anything.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: You don't owe anybody anything.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: Do you want to know a strategy that worked for
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: a couple of my clients, for whom a restaurant meal
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: off plan could have been life or death. We're not
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: talking about somebody that's trying to lose ten vanity pounds,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: with somebody that's really in the throes of trying to
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: reverse diabetes or lose a leg or go on dialysis.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: This is literally on the line, right.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: So this this brilliant lady. What she did when she
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: was in my program, in the in person program, she
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: had to entertain clients for lunch and she worked near
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: Lasianaga restaurant Row, so they always were places like Lowries
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: and whatever. But she really took her recovery from food
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: addiction and diabetes very seriously. So what she did is
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: she called up the restaurant ahead of time, because you
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: know where you're going. Usually they don't. You don't just
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: get some mysterious text, right, so they knew where that
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: she was meeting the client. She called up the restaurant
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: the night before and said, listen, I'm in a very
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: special diet doctor's orders. Would you mind if I brought
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: my food into you, I'd come early, you heat it
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: up and played it and then charge me. And the
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: guy says, lady, we do that all the time. And
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: then she got what she could eat. Nobody knew, nobody
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: bad it an I She just said, oh, you know, hey, Frank,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: I'll have the usual.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: Oh so she brought it ahead of time and she.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: And they charged her for the least expensive entree.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: Uh huh. Yeah, that's interesting. I haven't heard that one before.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: That's good. I mean that's there's some machinations and some
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: time invested in. Yeah, but not everyone's going to want
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: to do that. But I guess look, if you're you're
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: on your program and this is everything to you and
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: your life is on the line, Like that's so let.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: Me ask you this, As a recovering alcoholic, would you
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: then drink alcohol just to not make other people.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: Feel so when you're newly sober. I can tell you,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: you know, within the first two weeks of trying to
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: get sober, I was already imagining, you know, this bachelor
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: party that I committed to going to, and there was
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: no way I was going to be able to go
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: to Las Vegas for a weekend with my buddies and
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: not drink, and that terrified me. So that's very real.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: No, And then I'm not trying to be dismissive.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: And now I can go anywhere, and you know, I
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: have to maintain my program. It's not like I work
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: at it, but you know I can go to those
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: places as need be. I don't seek them out, but
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: you know, occasions arise where I'm in situations I'm not
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: normally in, and I'm comfortable in my own skin, but
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: that is because I've put a huge amount of work
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: into that right to be able to have that gas
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: in the tank and get through those opportunity situations where
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: you know, normally that would imperil me or somebody who's
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: who has a very shaky foundation for their recovery.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to be dismissive of what I'm trying
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: to say. And this is where the crux of this
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: disease lies. Because most people don't take food addiction as
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: seriously as alcohol or drug addiction. No one would if
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: people knew you were a recovering alcohol It's different if
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: they've never met you, But nobody, knowing what they know,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: would say to you at a family event or a
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: bachelor party say, hey, rich, you got to taste this margarita.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: I made it just for you, just to sip. People
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: wouldn't do that to you, But with food addicts, they
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: feel like, what's the harm? One meal off plan and
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: just like right, one drink, one drunk. You can live
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: your life without alcohol or cocaine or cigarettes, So if
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: you can't live your life without food, And so knowing
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: what I know, now, if I knew, then I would
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: have just been honest with the person and say, listen,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: this looks delicious and I'm so sorry. I don't mean
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: to be difficult, but I am a food addict and
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: there's nothing I can have here, so I'm going to
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: enjoy the company and have a cup of tea.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: That's what I would do, all right. So your kind
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: of road to recovery, you've got this, you've premised this,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: or you've kind of distilled this down to this idea
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: of the seven seas.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, gosh, I hope I remember now well.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: I wrote them down in case no it's takay.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: Well, the first C is commitment, absolutely because you have
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: to have that commitment. I mean there's been research with
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: Harvard Business School that the people that made commitments did
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: better many many years later than those that didn't make commitments,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: or you know, sort of like a commitment, sort of
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: like having a goal, but having a commitment writing it down,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: Specific right exactly, and not just going to eat better.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not just say I'm going to eat it, I'm
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: going to exercise, I'm never going to eat cheese again. No,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: you know, make it, make it, not actually having it
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: a time commitment. See, that's why we always do like
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: twenty one days first in my program. We don't tell
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: you that you can't have X, y Z the rest
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: of your life. We're just like doctor Lyle says, doing
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: an experiment for twenty one days. We're going to do
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: this and on day twenty two, if you want that
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: triple cheeseburger, write it on your calendar. You're going to
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: get it. But you're just going to make a commitment.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: And when you make that commitment public like we do
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: in the Ultimate Weight Loss Program, or if you have
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: a buddy, it seems to be more powerful because then
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: you have accountability.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, so that goes to the community prong
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: of the seven City.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I think number four. And you know, I
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: think community is the one where most people fail and
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: most people relapse because you brought that up. That's the
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: hardest for people because of the social pressure.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: And then the second a lot of people, Sorry do
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: not interrupt, but I think this is an important point.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: Like a lot of people, like we live in Los Angeles,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: there's you know whatever, there's a million people here to
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: kind of pat us on the back or whatever. But
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of people live in places where they don't
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: have that community in their local town or wherever they live. Right.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: That's why an online community, that's why we created Ultimate
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: Weight Loss to also be online to help people all
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: over the world with a virtual community, which actually can
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: be just as powerful, although it is always nice to
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: have somebody in person, all right.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: Compliance.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: Compliance is my favorite word. Some people say they don't
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: like it, they like adherence better, but adherence doesn't start
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: with C. But doctor Goldhammer says, the word compliance that's
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: where I learned it, and it literally means just following
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: a prescribed course of action. And what I love about
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: it is there's no emotion to me, at least there's
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: no emotion in the word compliance. People you know all
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: the time make posts on our private group or call
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: me up and say I was bad. I ate a cookie.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: Oh I was good today, I ate kal. I don't
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: look at it. It's like you're bad or you might
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: be bad or good in life, but you're not bad
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: or good based on your food choices. You're either compliant
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: or non compliant.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: You made a choice, yeah.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: So choose to be compliant. You had a mishap, you
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: had a slip or a misstep or a relapse. Then
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: you can go back to choosing to be compliant in
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: the next meal. Whatever that program.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: Is, because it takes this idea of failure and the
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: shame that kind of goes hand in hand with it
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: out of it, because what happens is people slip or
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: make that choice and then they beat themselves up so
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: they've made a second mistake and then they're like fuck it.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: Then they go yeah, so then they're out right. And
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: if you reframe that and call it by a different name,
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: say I made this choice, it's neutral. You're not bad
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: or good. This is the choice that I made. Okay.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: That allows you to be dispassionate about it and go
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: how can I recalibrate or what led me to make
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: that choice? Like let's look at that, let's unpack that,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: and what do I need to do so that I
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: don't make that choice again?
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: And it's how they talk to themselves, because if they
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: ate a cookie and then relapse and they say to themselves,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: well now I've failed, Now I've blown it, what's the
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: use they feel a certain way.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: Versusre's a lifetime of energy behind that.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: Or if they say to theyself, oh I ate a cookie,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: I was non compliant, it doesn't have the same charge.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh I wasn't compliant. Well then you'll
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: be compliant with the next.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: Meal, all right.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: The next is consistency As an athlete, you know how
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: important consistently so because I mean, you know, I remember
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: I don't I think it might've been Doug lad but
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: that it was a Kobe Bryant. Who There's some athletes
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: that they don't just go to practice, like they stay
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: two hours later or come two hours before. You know,
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: things like that. When you do things in the same
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: manner over time, without with little variation, and you do
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: them consistently, first of all, you build a habit and
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: then it becomes an automatic habit. But too many people
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: go to True North once a year and fast and
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: they lose some weight and they get off some medications,
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: but then they right back to the same environment and
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: the same way of eating because they're not doing it consistently.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: So what you do most of the time is more
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: important than what you do some of the time. So
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: being consistent with your food choices and your exercise too.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's self evident. I mean, it's pretty elementary. But
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: I think that's that's the most difficult thing. I mean,
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: I think I think it's important to respect momentum, Like
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: if you have that experience of being a True North,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: or you've done thirty days or twenty one days of
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: whatever you're doing. We have this weird human impulse, especially addicts,
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: of trying to celebrate those benchmarks, doing the thing that
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: is at odds with what got you there, like like oh,
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: I got a year of sobriety, here's a cake yeah,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: Or here's a cake yeah yeah, Like yeah, I had
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: a kit exactly yeah, And trying to maintain it's those
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: micro little decisions that you're making every day that are
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: truly at the crux of whether you're going to succeed
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: or not. And that's the un sexy part, you know.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, you can create all this romanticization out
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: of like getting on a plane and going to True
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: North and like you're housed and you're taking care of
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: but like, you know, what are you doing at home
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: when no one's looking? Moment to moment, power to hour.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: It's funny that you mentioned the word sexy. I had
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: this very affluent client that came to me and I
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: played the program and he goes, you know, this abstinence,
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: it's just not sexy, And I said, well, either is
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: your impotence.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: So yeah, because well also like nothing, you know, nothing truly,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: no great accomplishment is like what it takes to build
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: a company or you know, achieve any athletic heights or
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: any of these things. Like it's it's the un sexy
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: part that gets you there. It's the thing that you're
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: doing the grind when no one's looking, that you're doing anonymously,
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: like all of that is what contributes to that success.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: You building so much self esteem with doing that. That's
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: the thing that's so cool.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, and when you look back, it's those
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: difficult moments that you recall. You know, it's not like that,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: you know, you could celebrate these victories. But honestly, like
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: the value for me when I look at anything that
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: I've created or succeeded at, like I remember like the hard.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: Time, the effort, it's the you know, doctor Lyle talks
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: about that. It's that you rewarded for the effort, for
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: a job well done. Even though I do a lot
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: of these iron chefs and I don't always win, but
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: I don't feel bad when I lose. I if I
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: know I did my best, you know, that's all that matters.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: Of course, so the next one is changed is changed?
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: No, it's cooking.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, sorry, I don't remember the order cooking. You know,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: it used to be continuing education, and then I changed
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: it to cooking because we realized that at some point
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: you have to get the food right, and either that
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: means learning a few simple basic recipes yourself, as we
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: talked about, or having somebody cook it for you, because
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: the food seems to be a part that eludes a
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: lot of people. You know, I had a client forty
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: four years old. It came to me, she goes, how
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: do you bake a potato and I'm like, oh my god.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: You know, people have no skills anymore. Like when I
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: grew up, home economics was mandatory in junior high sewing
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: and cooking we learn basic, you know, skills of the
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: of the homemaker, which I think men and women should
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: should learn. So it's just some basic cooking skills.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: Right right.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: Cooking change change, Yeah, you know, you know that's saying
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: nobody likes change, but what baby? But many people don't
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: change until the pain associated with change is less than
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: the pain of staying the same. People have to at
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: least be willing to change, because you're going on a
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: journey here that's completely different than anything you've ever done, right,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: because most of the world is going to continue to
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: eat crap and continue to eat animal products, and so
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: at least you have to be willing to make these changes.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: You may have to change who you hang out with,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: Like if you were when you were an alcoholic, if
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 2: you had other buddies that were alcoholics, you probably couldn't at.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: Least I had to completely change my social rights.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: Or at least not hang out with them at the
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: bar anymore. So you have to be willing to change
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: who you hang out with. If you still go to restaurants,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: you might have to change which restaurants you go to,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: how you or how you order. So that's a big
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: thing for people. A lot of people don't like having
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: to change, you know, they.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: Really don't know. You know, they want they want it,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: they want all the good stuff, but they don't want
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: to do those uncomfortable things exactly. So as got news
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: for you, Yeah.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: Got you got to learn get comfortable being uncomfortable.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: Right, Well, we talked about community. Do you have anything
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: more to say about that?
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: I think I think with community is that if you
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: don't have one, find one in whether it's my group
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: or a virtual group, or even just one person that
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: could be a buddy to you online or in person.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: I think that that is really going to be the
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: most important thing. It would be very you know, if
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: my husband didn't support me in this, I don't think
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: I could do it, you know, if he was just
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: you know, drinking beer and eating pizza every night. So
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: even having that one special person to support you.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So what do you say to that person who
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: is really trying hard but there are spouse, their partner
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: is not into get divorced?
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: No, so I don't. I sometimes I do say that
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: if they're not, if they're sabotaging them. So what I
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: say is, then you know, at least don't have these
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: things in the house. So, in other words, if you're
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: an alcoholic and your spouse isn't and they can still
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: drink out of respect to you, they will then drink
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: outside of the home. And it has to be the
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: same thing with the foods or we reckon and even
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: getting what's called a lot of food safe. If your
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: spouse won't support you, it's going to be rough. Now.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: All the doctors I've interviewed says say that a loving
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: partner will support someone in recovery, or at least should.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: That doesn't always happen, So if your spouse won't support you,
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: then you have to get it somewhere else. It's very
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: hard to do this alone. No man is an island
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: and recovery. I know one person that was a cocaine
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: addict that was extremely introverted, highly intelligent, that was able
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: to get off the drug themselves without rehab, without going
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: to a doctor. That's really rare. Recovery is generally done
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: in programs because it really helps you to see that
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: if you climb this mountain, there is a top. When
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: you see people like Heather Goodwin who have lost three
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: hundred pounds have kept it off, you see what's possible.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: And that's why I think if you don't have the
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: support at home, you've got to find, as we say,
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: your tribe somewhere.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, a support system is absolutely crucial, not just to
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: see the example the successes, but also just to catch
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: you when you fall. Then yeah, you know, who are
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: you gonna call at midnight? And you know all that
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff is like I couldn't. I couldn't have
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: gotten sober by myself. There's no way. I know, you know,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: there's no way. So I think it's super duper important,
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: all right. Compassion, Oh that's my big problem.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: That's why I wore this shirt today. That's success.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: You're not compassionate.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not discompassionate, but most of my life is an
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: ethical vegan. My compassion was more for those with fur
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: and fins and feathers and not those so much with skin.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 3: Don't like people, well it's not that I don't like them,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 3: but I always seem to do better with you know,
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 3: the animals, and so I I realized that, you know,
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 3: if I'm going to be successful helping people, and if
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 3: people are going to be successful helping themselves, you have
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 3: to have compassion for other people at every step of
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 3: their journey and for yourself.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: Especially when you relapse. This people people if they understood
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: what an insidious, chronic, progressive, life threatening disease addiction was,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: whether it's food addiction or alcohol addiction, they might be
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: kinder to themselves when they relapse. You know. It's it's
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: so you need to practice self compassion. And there's you know,
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: like your wife teaches yoga and meditation. Those are two
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: of the most beautiful modalities that help you garner self
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: compassion when you can get quiet and do those more
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: mindful things. A lot of people have compassion for the animals,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: but not so much for other people, and that's that's
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: what I'm talking about with compassion. However, there are people
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: that come to this program just to lose weight and
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: really don't have compassion for the animals, and then it's
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: a plant based program and then they maybe need to
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: learn to have some compassion for those So compassion is huge,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the piece about self compassion is super important, you know,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: somebody has been in, you know, the rooms of recovery
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: for a long time, Like you see people that relapse,
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: there's chronic relapsers, and a lot of those people are
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: under the misapprehension that they can go out and they
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: can always come back, which they can. But you know,
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: just because you go out doesn't mean you're going to
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: come back. And and you know, more often than not,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I've been witnessed to those people that go
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: out thinking they're going to come back after a binge
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: weekend and they never come back and never come back
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: in that's because of shame and because you know, sometimes
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: they die, and I've been to a lot of funerals,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: but you know a lot of times it's just they're
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: so mortified they can't face the prospect of returning to
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: the rooms to admit on a public level like this
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: is what happened to me. And so they would rather
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: imprison themselves and perpetuate the addictive cycle than have to
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: actually confront that. And you know, it's that destroys.
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: Lives absolutely, and that's why that's why community is so important.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: Addiction is a disease that can only thrive in isolation,
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: and that's just the way it is, and they shouldn't
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: feel so much shame. I think that's why with shows
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: like yours to educate people that addiction, actually it's a disease,
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: like you interviewed, doctor Mate, It's not like a choice.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: It's not like we said, oh, you know this this
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: great thing to have. It's it's it's our brains are
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: wired differently than other peoples. And even though it is,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: it's not a choice. But once we know that we
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: are wired this way, it becomes our responsibility to behave
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: differently if we wish to recover, Which is why if
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: I had one message for people that or suffering from
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: any addictions, it would be that abstinence is bliss. It
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: is so much easy to stay, easier to stay in
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: recovery than it is to continually have to detoxify and
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: withdraw and try to get sobriety again, whatever your addiction is.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: But like I said, I've never met anybody that's gone
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: to the top of the mountain or got to the
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: other side that didn't think abstinence was it's so awesome
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: if they could just feel what it was like to
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: be in our brains, to have a calm brain and
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: not having cravings for any addictive substance. People would do it,
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: but it is a tough sell, Yeah it is.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: So we got to round this out. But if somebody
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: is listening to this and they are caught in that
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: cycle and they're having difficulty, you know, confronting their own
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: personal truth or trying to see their way out of it,
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: what is your lifeline?
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that they The first thing I would
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: probably recommend is maybe read a book like The Pleasure Trap.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: You know, that's a low buying like you know, what
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: is it like fifteen bucks or twenty bucks on audible
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: and see if that resonates with you what these doctors
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: are saying it does. Maybe considering going to True North
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: or at least having your free consult you know, there's
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: no there's no cost and just talking to doctor Goldhammer
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: to see if it was right for you, or having
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: a low cost consult with doctor Lyle for seventy five dollars.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: If my program is right for you, consider joining that.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not right for everybody because it is
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: it's an abstinence based program, and that's the thing. People
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: want the results of abstinence without doing the work of abstinence.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: So and just get yourself educated more to see if
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: you really are an addict. You know, there is no
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: shame in this disease unless you feel that way.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: That's why we need to bring this out. And I mean,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: I'm proud to say I'm an addict because once I
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: found out I was, I knew I could recover because
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: there was treatment before that. That's when I thought something
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: was wrong with me that I couldn't I couldn't eat
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: a cookie. I'm like, what's wrong with me? Who eats?
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: You know, all these cookies? I don't get it. But
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: once I knew that there was a reason, there was
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: no more shame.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: Right. So often the fear of the unknown exceeds the
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: pain of the current situation, right. And and I also
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: so I think it's it's often revealing if you get
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: out a piece of paper and draw a line down
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: the middle and right on one side, like all the
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: pain that you're suffering from, and on the other side
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: what you're afraid of. Uh, And and really get real
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: with yourself. You know, willingness is something that you can't
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: You can't will somebody to be willing. They have to
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: have their own uh sort of desire to, you know,
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: do that kind of work, and they either have it
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: or they don't. And my hope and my wish for
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: everybody who's listening, who is suffering, is that you do
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: have that willingness, because it is that that will make
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: the difference between you, you know, changing your life and
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: just maintaining stuck in whatever pattern.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: You know, you can always go back, you can try
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: sobriety if you don't like it, you know, you know,
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: it's not none. None of these programs are court ordered.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: Well sometimes I guess they are for some people, but
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: in general that would be me. Yeah, in general.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: That's why I love the concept of not even a
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: day at a time, but a meal at a time,
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: abite at time. You can always choose to go back.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if I heard this on one
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: of the guests in your show, but you know they
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: say that the opposite of addiction is connection. And that's why, absolutely,
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: that's why it's so important to find a tribe or
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: at least one person to support you.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: Awesome, AJ, You're an inspiration.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: Oh thank you, I love you.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: How do you feel?
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: I feel great?
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: Good?
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: My hairdresser says, she's your biggest fan, and she was
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: so jealous that I was coming here.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: I have a massive fan base amongst hairdressing.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: You do, she's a vegan hairdresser.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: Oh cool, that's cool, really great. Uh. If you want
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: to connect with AJ, there's a number of ways to
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: do that. The most important thing, though, is check out
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: her new book, Secrets to Ultimate Weight Loss. She also
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: has a book called eat On Processed on Processed Yeah, processed, Yeah,
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: check that out. And your website you're coaching your online programs.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: It's all that on my website. Chef AJ website or
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: eat on process dot comrocess dot com.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: Cool. Nice, And you're on all the social networks. Are
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: you speaking anywhere? You know?
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: What's what's coming up? The cruises until next year? You know,
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: I've been taking a little time off to to to
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: get this book done. Am I going anywhere special? Nothing
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: that I can? Oh, Rachel La Puerto? Where you've been
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: with Julie? Yeah, in Mexico May fifth through twelve?
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I had Deborah on the podcast Early Cool. She's amazing,
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: She's awesome. She must be.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: Like like ninety five or ninety six now.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's still she's still showing up and doing her.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: She's she's the goddess.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: I love her.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: No, she's cool, all right, awesome, Come back and talk
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: to me again.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: Sometimes, Oh my god, it'd be my honor pleasure. Thank you.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: Peace. Plants eat unprocessed and go abstinate.