Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / How A 20% Pay Cut Became A Career Breakthrough In Wealth Management | Neil Whiteside

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How A 20% Pay Cut Became A Career Breakthrough In Wealth Management | Neil Whiteside · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  Sam Oakes: And today's guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast is Neil Whiteside.
• 0:04
  Sam Oakes: He is from First Equitable.
• 0:06
  Sam Oakes: He is a financial planner.
• 0:08
  Sam Oakes: And we talk about his career journey from working in the banks quite a few years ago into stepping into one of the very first trainee financial planner positions at Wesley.
• 0:19
  Sam Oakes: We talk about what that taught him.
• 0:21
  Sam Oakes: The risk of moving from a bank, dropping salary to go into a trainee advisor role.
• 0:27
  Sam Oakes: We talk about how long it took for him to get his income back up to the levels that were acceptable to him.
• 0:33
  Sam Oakes: We also look at why he transitioned from that role into Troders, and then from Stroder's into First Equitable, and what the future holds for him.
• 0:44
  Sam Oakes: It's a really, really interesting conversation.
• 0:46
  Sam Oakes: We dig deep also into protection, why that's so important in the advice journey, and he shares some stories about how he helped clients and why stories are so important to be able to confidently position protection.
• 1:00
  Sam Oakes: We also look at some of his work that he does outside of financial planning and how that is going to help him achieve non-executive director's roles in the future.
• 1:11
  Sam Oakes: This is a fantastic career story, and you're going to love it.
• 1:15
  Sam Oakes: So, Neil, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:38
  Sam Oakes: How are you, mate?
• 1:39
  Sam Oakes: I'm great, thanks, Son.
• 1:40
  Sam Oakes: Thanks for asking.
• 1:41
  Sam Oakes: How are you?
• 1:41
  Sam Oakes: I'm all right.
• 1:42
  Sam Oakes: Not too shabby.
• 1:43
  Sam Oakes: Not too shabby.
• 1:44
  Sam Oakes: I was just saying about the dark mornings, not used to it.
• 1:46
  Neil Whiteside: Not used to it at all.
• 1:47
  Neil Whiteside: You mustn't be used to it, yeah.
• 1:49
  Neil Whiteside: So I mean, I think the only saving grace is the uh the clocks, the clocks changing at the weekend gives us a little bit more light in the morning.
• 1:54
  Neil Whiteside: But before that, it was uh pretty grim.
• 1:57
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, it was, yeah.
• 1:58
  Sam Oakes: I know and I've been it affected my running because I was getting up quite early to go running, and then all of a sudden it got dark for a week and it totally mucked up my running.
• 2:05
  Sam Oakes: So uh I'll be getting back out there uh this week for sure.
• 2:09
  Sam Oakes: Fantastic.
• 2:10
  Sam Oakes: So you're based in Liverpool?
• 2:12
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah, based in live on the whirl, away from Liverpool.
• 2:16
  Sam Oakes: Fantastic.
• 2:16
  Sam Oakes: Give us a brief introduction, who you are and what you're doing.
• 2:19
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah, so uh Neil Whiteside.
• 2:21
  Neil Whiteside: So I am an independent financial advisor at First Equitable, Global Wealth Management in Liverpool.
• 2:27
  Neil Whiteside: So just not um recently started there in October, so a few weeks in that.
• 2:32
  Neil Whiteside: Um so yeah, live on the whirl um with my wife and and three kids and my little dog.
• 2:36
  Neil Whiteside: So um similar to yourself, love a bit of bit of running, go to the gym, and um yeah, watch watch Liverpool for my sins at the moment, which isn't uh great watching, but try to get to Anfield as much as I can as well, which is uh which is normally a pleasure.
• 2:50
  Sam Oakes: Fantastic.
• 2:50
  Sam Oakes: Well, I'm an Arsenal fan, but I don't really follow football as much as I used to.
• 2:54
  Sam Oakes: But I did catch they're doing pretty well at the moment.
• 2:57
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, definitely, definitely so.
• 2:58
  Neil Whiteside: I think it could be their year this year after a couple of years of frustration.
• 3:02
  Neil Whiteside: So it's it's looking looking positive for them.
• 3:05
  Sam Oakes: Could be their year, could be their year.
• 3:06
  Sam Oakes: Fantastic.
• 3:07
  Sam Oakes: Okay, so you know, first equitable, you've just joined that business.
• 3:12
  Sam Oakes: Uh it's a directly authorized firm, it's an IFA, yeah.
• 3:16
  Sam Oakes: Um, but it's vastly different from the career that you've had.
• 3:19
  Sam Oakes: So I think what would be really interesting is just to kind of step back a little bit and talk about your journey up to First Equitable.
• 3:27
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 3:27
  Sam Oakes: And then hopefully that will kind of give us an idea of some of maybe the risks that you took in your career to get to you to where you are now, which is in its own right a risk as well.
• 3:38
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, you like to take risks in your career.
• 3:41
  Sam Oakes: And a lot of people, when they listen to this podcast, they're thinking, like, how do I get ahead?
• 3:45
  Sam Oakes: You know, should I leave my current job to go somewhere else?
• 3:48
  Sam Oakes: When is the right time to leave?
• 3:50
  Sam Oakes: And I think it's a great journey to kind of break down yours and share your experiences and you know, the pros and the cons along the way that you have experienced.
• 3:59
  Sam Oakes: So, first off, how did you get into financial uh planning?
• 4:02
  Sam Oakes: What was your career journey?
• 4:04
  Sam Oakes: How did it start?
• 4:05
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah, so I think I mean going right the way back to when I was 18, really, Sam was started out as um working for the Halifax for Lloyd's Banking Group.
• 4:12
  Neil Whiteside: So started off just as a cashier, you know, back back then, back in 2006.
• 4:17
  Neil Whiteside: Um, and I really took to the role straight away, you know, really got an appetite for sort of finance and banking in general and the wider, the wider picture.
• 4:24
  Neil Whiteside: You know, at the time, you know, back in them days, there was tons of staff in the branch, you know, not like these days where they're like running on skeleton staff, but you know, there was tons of people in there, there was loads of cashiers, there was like banking advisors, mortgage advisors, mortgage reviewers, financial advisors.
• 4:39
  Neil Whiteside: So I think, you know, it was a really great environment to be in.
• 4:42
  Neil Whiteside: You know, it was it was great to be around.
• 4:43
  Neil Whiteside: But again, you you had a lot of different career paths that you could potentially choose from.
• 4:48
  Neil Whiteside: And I quite quickly topped to it, like I said, and I and I, you know, I really wanted to sort of move up the ladder.
• 4:53
  Neil Whiteside: And, you know, before long, but being in that sort of cashier role, I was already looking to sort of take the next step into like the banking advisor role, which is where you look after the, you know, what was the sort of loans, credit cards, all that sort of stuff.
• 5:05
  Neil Whiteside: So for me, it was almost like I could see that there was a potential long-term career there.
• 5:10
  Neil Whiteside: You know, it's not something I'd ever thought about before, but be, you know, once I got in the environment, I could see the other opportunities that were there.
• 5:17
  Neil Whiteside: And I think I I always sort of took a bit of a shine to the to the financial advisors that were in the branches, you know, built up good relationships with them, would sit in on the meetings and do some um sort of observation so that I could use that for my interview prep for when I was I was looking at you know, move on to the next role.
• 5:33
  Neil Whiteside: And just when I could see what they were doing and how they were helping clients and really making a difference, it just really wet my appetite for something that I thought I'd love to get into that, you know, myself in the future.
• 5:43
  Neil Whiteside: So I continued really to sort of work my way up, went into the banking advisor role and then sort of took a bit of a side step and went into doing a bit of call centre work for the bank.
• 5:52
  Neil Whiteside: So just trying something different, doing some outbound calling, um, which was uh which is pretty tough back in the day.
• 5:58
  Neil Whiteside: A lot of co-calling for sort of loans and things like that.
• 6:01
  Neil Whiteside: But um again, great experience and give me, you know, really, really good grounding.
• 6:06
  Neil Whiteside: And then following on from that, I had a brief stint where I've done a bit of work in insurance.
• 6:10
  Neil Whiteside: So I worked for a company called Swinton Insurance.
• 6:12
  Neil Whiteside: We were on the high street, and if you recall them, done a little bit of work for them for a short period, and then I went back to the bank to become a financial advisor in 2012.
• 6:22
  Neil Whiteside: Now, that opportunity was it was protection only, so it was just that obviously RDR had kicked off, and you know, there'd been a lot of change.
• 6:30
  Neil Whiteside: So it was just like a level, level three qualification that was required at the time.
• 6:33
  Neil Whiteside: So I think it was the CFAP through the through the LIBX.
• 6:36
  Neil Whiteside: And I went on to do that and became a sort of you know financial planner at Lloyd's doing sort of protection.
• 6:42
  Neil Whiteside: So we were looking across for sort of life insurance, critical illness, income protection, and whole of life insurance.
• 6:47
  Neil Whiteside: So, and that for me got me really into sort of a bit more of the planning side of it and really how you could, you know, make a difference for clients and help them with with the protection needs and ensuring they were adequately protected.
• 6:58
  Neil Whiteside: But for me, I always wanted to still take that next step and gain my qualifications and get into the sort of full financial planning environments.
• 7:07
  Neil Whiteside: Unfortunately, we you know, the the the level three protection role didn't last too long, it got pulled, and which meant we were at risk of redundancy.
• 7:16
  Neil Whiteside: So at that point, it was just a case of I had my first daughter on the way, and I had to do something, you know, in in relation to be able to get a job and and keep the security.
• 7:24
  Neil Whiteside: And I've built up some good relationships in Lloyd at the time.
• 7:27
  Neil Whiteside: So I managed to sort of get myself a role doing some branch management um on the Will where I live.
• 7:32
  Neil Whiteside: So I took the step into that and from sort of 2014 onwards and you know, really, really took to that.
• 7:37
  Neil Whiteside: I really enjoyed it, loved working with people, loved coaching people, supporting people, managing people, and and very quickly again moved up into different more senior roles from managing like smaller branches, went into sort of bigger flagship branches as assistant, and then eventually managing my own sort of branch and pooler branches.
• 7:54
  Neil Whiteside: And I suppose that's when um 2018 came about, and in between that I had my first daughter and second daughter.
• 8:01
  Neil Whiteside: So for me to be able to study at home was really difficult to achieve that sort of level four status to go on and do what I also want or always wanted to achieve, which was become a you know a fully fled financial advisor, effectively.
• 8:14
  Neil Whiteside: So 2018 the opportunity came about, and I was working for Lloyds at the time, really secure role, you know, obviously, great pension, great benefits, great job security.
• 8:25
  Neil Whiteside: Um, and the opportunity came about to go and do a sort of advisor academy uh across at Wesleyan, um, which was at the time, I think, one of the first of its kind.
• 8:35
  Neil Whiteside: You know, I it was a new cohort, so I was part of the sort of first cohort to go to go away and do that.
• 8:40
  Neil Whiteside: So I had a big decision to make effectively because I was in this corporate world at lawyers, you know, built up great relationships, great benefits, all that sort of stuff that comes with it.
• 8:49
  Neil Whiteside: And then I was faced with this opportunity where I could go away and do my level four exams whilst learning the role as well.
• 8:56
  Neil Whiteside: But the big thing that came with that is obviously the risk.
• 8:59
  Neil Whiteside: And secondly, you know, massive, massive pay cut to to go down to the sort of trainee level.
• 9:05
  Neil Whiteside: But for me, looking at the longer term, where you know, where it wanted to be, it was the it was a great step to take.
• 9:11
  Sam Oakes: Let's stop there a second.
• 9:12
  Sam Oakes: So because one thing definitely, you had a plethora of different opportunities within the banking environment.
• 9:19
  Sam Oakes: You did step out and go work in Swinton, which in its own right on the high street, insurance, tough, you know, very, very tough.
• 9:28
  Sam Oakes: But plenty of roles that you took on there, plenty of variety that opened you up to customer service, customers, customer experience, sales, sales targets, um fact-finding, understanding customers.
• 9:45
  Sam Oakes: That's what the bank kind of gave you, wasn't it?
• 9:48
  Sam Oakes: It was a really great place to cut your teeth in multiple different roles.
• 9:54
  Sam Oakes: And when you look back, and I'm old enough to know, you know, a lot of financial advisors that used to work within all the banks, we used to work with all the major banks when I was a recruiter.
• 10:02
  Sam Oakes: There were so many good opportunities in those banks to learn and to progress.
• 10:08
  Sam Oakes: And I think it's such a great grounding.
• 10:10
  Sam Oakes: Would you say now, anybody considering becoming a financial planner and they're trying to cut their teeth, they're trying to get some experience, would you say get yourself stuck into a bank, or would you say get yourself stuck into an admin admin role or something within a financial planning firm?
• 10:24
  Sam Oakes: What would you say?
• 10:25
  Neil Whiteside: I mean, I think, like you say, what the bank will give you, there's a lot of the sort of the basic skills that you need.
• 10:30
  Neil Whiteside: So the customer service, the fact find.
• 10:32
  Neil Whiteside: And I mean, I still use a lot of the skills that I learned from the bank in my day-to-day role now, you know, and I always will because it just gives you that sort of like grounding, like you say.
• 10:39
  Neil Whiteside: I think the big difference is it if you're looking on the sort of financial advice side of it, you would you you wouldn't be exposed to any specifics around that within the bank.
• 10:48
  Neil Whiteside: So if you're looking to sort of get in and experience more of the sort of processes and procedures and and that sort of stuff with where the administration side will give you, it's probably two very, very different exposures.
• 10:59
  Neil Whiteside: But you know, 100% the bank would give, you know, a really good sort of grounding and basic skills, like we said, like the fact finding, I mean the customer service, just how to be with clients and deal with clients and how to treat them.
• 11:12
  Neil Whiteside: Because that's one thing that's very different, because working in the bank, obviously, you'll be with clients, you'll be speaking to clients, and you that's your bread and butter what you're doing day in, day out.
• 11:21
  Neil Whiteside: Whereas in an administration role, it's not going to expose you to that client interaction as much, which can obviously then if you depend on how sort of quick you want to move on from that, it's it's then that you need to obviously pick up and learn the sort of client interaction skills as well.
• 11:38
  Neil Whiteside: So two very different environments really, but I think both have got their advantages.
• 11:44
  Sam Oakes: People would say it was quite tricky now to get into a trainee advisor role.
• 11:48
  Sam Oakes: With the background that you had at the time, did you go out and look at the market?
• 11:53
  Sam Oakes: Did you knock on a lot of doors?
• 11:54
  Sam Oakes: Did you apply for a lot of roles before you landed on the academy position there at Wesley?
• 12:00
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah, I think for me, I was very active at the time speaking to recruiters and looking to sort of get into that sort of environment.
• 12:06
  Neil Whiteside: But at the time, it was basically the door was just shut on you if you didn't have the level four, which it still is now, of course.
• 12:11
  Neil Whiteside: But the trainee roles were, you know, they weren't around at the time.
• 12:14
  Neil Whiteside: They weren't something that were very, especially on an employee's side of things.
• 12:17
  Neil Whiteside: And so for me, it was sort of come back when you've got your level four, come back when you've got your level four.
• 12:22
  Neil Whiteside: And that was the sort of response that you were getting.
• 12:24
  Neil Whiteside: But I think going back to my personal circumstances, you know, it was very difficult having to having two daughters at home, being able to, oh and obviously going to work full-time and then having the ability to be able to try and study to get to get that level four qualification because it's no mean feet to to get that, you know, it's it's tough, it's tricky.
• 12:41
  Neil Whiteside: So I think I think that's where I become unstuck with that, really.
• 12:44
  Neil Whiteside: And that's why because I was in such a good environment in the bank and I was, you know, sort of all them good added benefits.
• 12:50
  Neil Whiteside: It sort of became less of a priority at the time because I was sort of, you know, in a good good position.
• 12:57
  Neil Whiteside: But then obviously the opportunity came about.
• 13:00
  Sam Oakes: Do you wish you did the level four before you went into the academy with um Wesley in, or was this something that you'd studied, you were happy to study whilst you were in the role of a trainee?
• 13:11
  Neil Whiteside: I think it was a really good blend of of the way we'd done it because it was a case of sort of your your role was split into some some of the time of studying and obviously doing your exams, and other time was was starting to sort of learn the role.
• 13:24
  Neil Whiteside: So the way that we done it was that you'd obviously get do the RO1 in the first instance, which gives you the sort of the regulation and ethics side of things.
• 13:30
  Neil Whiteside: And then we took the steps up into like the CF6 so we could start to do mortgage advice initially, and then RO3, so we could introduce protection, and then we were introducing the others as we went on, so it was almost like building blocks.
• 13:41
  Neil Whiteside: So I think, in a way, rather than being thrown in at the deep end and having to do everything and learn everything, it was a really good way of getting to grips with the role in general and understanding the different elements.
• 13:52
  Neil Whiteside: And obviously, you know, you could get comfortable with mortgages and protection, and then you could do the RO2 and bring in investments, and then obviously the RO4 and bring in the pensions, and then you could do the RO6 and pull it all together, which then you know made you feel a lot more comfortable giving the sort of overall holistic advice to clients.
• 14:08
  Neil Whiteside: So it was a great way of understanding, you know, whereas if you've done it the other way and you just done your exams and then jumped in, you're almost expected to be doing the you know the whole hog straight away.
• 14:17
  Sam Oakes: So the early exposure to seeing the financial advisors within the bank, that was the thing that always stuck in your mind that you wanted to actually do.
• 14:24
  Sam Oakes: You built a career within the bank, it was secure, a couple of kids, and you're taking a leap of faith by saying, I want to pursue becoming a financial planner because you couldn't pursue that at the time in the bank.
• 14:34
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 14:35
  Sam Oakes: So you had to step outside of it.
• 14:37
  Sam Oakes: They were few and far between.
• 14:39
  Sam Oakes: Wesleyan had an opportunity, and you went for it.
• 14:42
  Sam Oakes: Now, that doesn't come um without its risks.
• 14:46
  Sam Oakes: So, how you built the confidence to do that, I assume.
• 14:51
  Sam Oakes: You had the confidence, you thought to yourself, I'm gonna back myself here.
• 14:55
  Sam Oakes: What about financially?
• 14:56
  Sam Oakes: Could you give yourself a little bit of a nest egg?
• 14:58
  Sam Oakes: Did you, you know, how long did it take you to get to the levels of earnings that you were used to or that you were aspiring to get to?
• 15:05
  Sam Oakes: Let's look at that bit first, realistically.
• 15:08
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah, so I think I mean it was a big risk financially at the time.
• 15:11
  Neil Whiteside: I think if we if we look at you know percentage basis, I probably had to take a 20% pay cut at the time to go from where I was to where I was going to to the academy side of things.
• 15:21
  Neil Whiteside: And I think to get back to the level of earnings where I was in the bank before I took the jump, it was about two and a half years and before I got back to that level.
• 15:30
  Neil Whiteside: So it was a case of, you know, I could see the end goal because of effectively the way it was structured was that you know, you get your exams and your pay sort of went up each exam you got, and then once you got your CAS status, it went up again.
• 15:42
  Neil Whiteside: So I could, you know, I could almost envision, I could see how I could get back there and I could sort of map that out on a timeline.
• 15:48
  Neil Whiteside: So I could really think, well, you know, it's only so long until I can get back to this level, and then it'll be so long until I'm at that level.
• 15:54
  Neil Whiteside: So for me, it was it was all about planning as well.
• 15:56
  Neil Whiteside: So it wasn't, you know, yes, it's a risk, but then you know, the planning is the most important thing to ensure that you're, you know, uh talking to my wife and planning things at home and ensuring that, you know, you're looking ahead to think, well, at this point it could be back here, at this point they'll be back here, and just sticking to the plan effectively.
• 16:12
  Neil Whiteside: But like you say, you know, comes comes at a big risk because if it doesn't drop the plan, you know, you've taken a massive, a massive chance in it and it could not pay off.
• 16:19
  Neil Whiteside: But you know, luckily for me, with hard work it did.
• 16:22
  Sam Oakes: At least it wasn't a self-employed option.
• 16:24
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah.
• 16:25
  Sam Oakes: And it and what it always had, Wesleyan, which I really liked, was what you just explained was a clear cut cut career framework that was backed by training and development.
• 16:36
  Sam Oakes: Um, and also a niche that you could work within and kind of hone your skills on, right?
• 16:43
  Sam Oakes: So Wesleyan I was always dentists, it was doctors, it was lawyers, wasn't it?
• 16:48
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah.
• 16:48
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Sam Oakes: So what did you specialise in?
• 16:51
  Neil Whiteside: So I specialised in hospital doctors at Wesleyan.
• 16:54
  Neil Whiteside: So um, so that was my sort of niche.
• 16:56
  Neil Whiteside: Uh but yeah, rightly, like you said, so it was GPs, hospital doctors, teachers, lawyers, and dentists, effectively.
• 17:02
  Neil Whiteside: Um, so yeah, it gave, I mean, again, gave me a really good sort of ground in a and a bit and a really good sort of overview for me of the NHS pension scheme.
• 17:11
  Neil Whiteside: So I could really hone in on that sort of you know, understanding and and and specialism of that, which you know massively helped when you're going out to your client base because you you you know you've got the skill, you've got the knowledge along with the skills that you've built up um throughout your training and throughout the rest of your career to go out and do a great job, effectively.
• 17:28
  Sam Oakes: So coming from the bank where predominantly things were landing on your lap because it was customers at the bank and they were either in the bank or being referred across to you from the personal bankers, etc.
• 17:39
  Sam Oakes: How difficult was it to then be in a world where you are um eat what you kill essentially?
• 17:45
  Sam Oakes: Because even back then, I, you know, they I don't remember there being an abundance of leads with waiting in.
• 17:50
  Sam Oakes: It was always a quite a tough one uh for us as a recruiter to be able to work on because it they were really looking for a certain type of beast, somebody that would use their initiative to go out and actually win that business.
• 18:03
  Sam Oakes: Was that the case?
• 18:04
  Sam Oakes: And did you have to step up into a kind of whole new area of um of being in respect of your ability to actually generate business?
• 18:12
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah, 100%.
• 18:12
  Neil Whiteside: And I think again, it was probably a bit different to the usual sort of advisor who would go into Wesleyan because they would normally get allocated a little bit of a client bank and then would have to go out and obviously generate their own new clients.
• 18:23
  Neil Whiteside: But for me, coming off the new advisor cohort, effectively, I didn't have any clients.
• 18:27
  Neil Whiteside: So it was starting from a standing start, effectively.
• 18:30
  Neil Whiteside: So again, I had to utilize my initiative and and we they had sort of like business development managers there.
• 18:36
  Neil Whiteside: So I would go out and I'd spend some time with them, observing them, doing events, and see what sort of things they do and how they do it, and build up the sort of the knowledge that I need and the and the skills and capabilities to go out and do that myself.
• 18:47
  Neil Whiteside: Luckily for me, I I interact quite well with people just in general.
• 18:51
  Neil Whiteside: So for me, it was just a case of of building up the courage and just going out there, putting yourself, you know, outside of your comfort zone, you know, some would say.
• 18:59
  Neil Whiteside: But you know, being in the hospital doctor environment, it was a case for me of utilising the areas where I could go in and build relationships in order to generate them conversations that were needed to potentially bring on clients.
• 19:10
  Neil Whiteside: So it was, you know, going out to education centres and hospitals, making connections with those people in there who organise the training events for doctors, where we could then offer our expertise to come in and do sort of seminars and we could support the events and sponsor them.
• 19:24
  Neil Whiteside: So then that put you in front of the people who you then want to speak to, such as the doctors.
• 19:29
  Neil Whiteside: But it was a completely new whole skill set that I had to sort of pick up and learn because it's something that I'd not done before.
• 19:35
  Neil Whiteside: But again, going back to utilis the whole sort of fact-finding customer service, it's all the same skills, it's just using it with different clientele.
• 19:43
  Neil Whiteside: So although they're not the customers coming to you for a service, you can use that same skill set to generate them relationships with effectively the clients that you're looking to generate.
• 19:54
  Sam Oakes: Knowing what you know now and looking at some of the academies that are out there where you don't get a basic salary, for instance, would you have taken a role that was purely self-employed?
• 20:04
  Neil Whiteside: Um, I physically don't think I would have been able to at the time.
• 20:08
  Neil Whiteside: And I think it would have been too much of a risk for me.
• 20:11
  Neil Whiteside: Um so I think you know, I'm very grateful for the opportunity that I was given.
• 20:14
  Neil Whiteside: And, you know, I think it was a fantastic opportunity to be part of something, something special and you know, to be part of the first one that would that was launched.
• 20:21
  Neil Whiteside: But I think for me personally, it definitely wouldn't have been feasible.
• 20:25
  Neil Whiteside: But I think for for anybody who's you know looking to come into the industry, who's maybe of the younger generation, who was who's thinking of what options they've got available.
• 20:34
  Neil Whiteside: I mean, one thing I would say is, you know, keep your options open, you know, make sure you're building that nest egg early on so that if there is an opportunity where you can go and do that, you've you've got the financial backing to be able to do it.
• 20:46
  Sam Oakes: And realistically, the time scale that you felt was around two and a half months, where you sorry, two and a half years, where you started to feel like you were back to the levels that you were used to, that you'd gone through the training and you felt that you were getting the role or what you were doing, right?
• 20:59
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah.
• 21:00
  Neil Whiteside: So that was a case of, you know, get and that that included going through all of the exams, getting CAS thesis and feeling like you were in a comfortable position when you're advising your clients.
• 21:08
  Neil Whiteside: Obviously, you've used your building blocks, you've got all your elements of sort of knowledge.
• 21:12
  Neil Whiteside: And you know, we we're still we learn every day as financial advisors, you know, there's we nobody knows everything.
• 21:18
  Neil Whiteside: So we you just continue to to sort of learn, but it definitely gave me such a such a good ground.
• 21:23
  Sam Oakes: And do you mind sharing um with us roughly what you were earning at that point?
• 21:27
  Sam Oakes: Um, a lot of people would love to understand what a trainee financial planner was earning when they started to that period where they felt the income was back to the levels that they required.
• 21:39
  Sam Oakes: Are you able to share with us what you started on and what you what you ended on when you were at Wesleyan, for instance?
• 21:43
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah, so I think I think the the sort of training advisor scheme, where it was, I think it was a flat, flat, flat salary of 30,000.
• 21:50
  Neil Whiteside: And then there was obviously the the stepping stones up for when you got each exam that'd be an element added back on, and then when you got your cas status, that'd be the rest of it added back on.
• 21:59
  Neil Whiteside: So to get into the into the sort of place where I was earning 40 plus um with where I was in the bank effectively was after that sort of two, two and a half year points, and that was once you know each exam was completed, you'd worked and gone and see your clients and got your sort of competent advisor status, and then you sort of you know have your wings clipped effectively and you're and you're back to sort of that that level.
• 22:21
  Sam Oakes: So you stayed there for how long?
• 22:23
  Neil Whiteside: Um so we stayed there from 2018 through to 2022.
• 22:28
  Neil Whiteside: Okay, so decent enough stint.
• 22:31
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, the usual stint that people would do.
• 22:33
  Sam Oakes: Um and what made you move on?
• 22:36
  Sam Oakes: Was it another risk?
• 22:37
  Sam Oakes: Did you take another chance?
• 22:38
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah, I mean, so I got um an opportunity came, arose at Troder's personal wealth, um, which um I've got an affiliation with Lloyds, and which obviously my previous, you know, my career before Wesleyan was primarily in Halifax Lloyds, Lloyds Banking Group.
• 22:53
  Neil Whiteside: Um, and I think the the sort of setup at the time was that um you you sort of got allocated a cluster of branches in your local area, and they would be the ones who referred into you effectively.
• 23:05
  Neil Whiteside: So, what the role consisted of was, you know, building relationships with the the branches and the colleagues in the branches in the local area in order for them to be able to generate referrals to pass over to you for financial advice.
• 23:16
  Neil Whiteside: Now, for me, I think just the relationships that I had had from from obviously many years of working in the bank, I knew a lot of people.
• 23:24
  Neil Whiteside: I had great relationships with a lot of the management team because I used to work alongside them.
• 23:28
  Neil Whiteside: So I think for me it was just a fantastic opportunity to go in somewhere that was, you know, probably just a bit of a bigger company than Wesleyan and to go and experience something else.
• 23:39
  Neil Whiteside: But also, again, it's it's it's taking another risk of going into a new role, having to get your your competent advisor status again, you know, starting from from scratch effectively, and you know, learning how their systems and processes and and everything works.
• 23:53
  Neil Whiteside: So, so yeah, another another risk taken, really, you know, going in with you know, again with with no with no client bank as such, um, but with obviously a bit of a different scenario where clients were referred to as well as looking to generate some of our own clients.
• 24:08
  Neil Whiteside: We have a steady inflow of of clients coming across.
• 24:11
  Neil Whiteside: And I think that's what initially drew me to it with the relationships that I had already within within the bank environment.
• 24:17
  Neil Whiteside: It was a bit of a bit of a no-brainer for me, really, to go and give the role a try.
• 24:21
  Neil Whiteside: And I just like the vision of the company and where they were trying to get to.
• 24:24
  Neil Whiteside: You know, they were looking to become one of the one of the sort of um top wealth management firms in the UK, you know.
• 24:30
  Neil Whiteside: So it was um it was a great opportunity to go and to go and show what I've what I'd learnt and what I was capable of and and put my skills on display somewhere else.
• 24:38
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, so you had that, you understood, yeah, you had the understanding of the branch networks, who work in where and what they do.
• 24:43
  Sam Oakes: Um, it being a branch manager, understanding each individual within the business as well and how to coach them, how to get them to generate business for you, how to ask the right questions to pass business across to you, because that's a big part of it, isn't it?
• 24:54
  Sam Oakes: I suppose it's not just all gonna land on your lap.
• 24:56
  Sam Oakes: You've got to educate those around you to recognise the opportunities that are there.
• 25:00
  Sam Oakes: Did it did you not find it difficult to kind of you cut your teeth in with hospital doctors?
• 25:05
  Sam Oakes: Did you not think, oh God, I've just spent all that time learning hospital doctors, the NHS pension, all the things that they're about, how they are as people?
• 25:12
  Sam Oakes: Did you not then think, oh, I'm gonna lose that experience to go back into a retail environment?
• 25:18
  Neil Whiteside: It wasn't such as such a retail environment, slightly different.
• 25:21
  Neil Whiteside: Obviously, the referrals were coming from a retail environment, but we were sort of more the sort of so the the comp the way the the way the setup was, it was sort of joint, it's a joint venture between Lloyds and Schroeder's, and well, there's obviously changes now, but um and effectively sort of the Lloyd's side of the of the role was that they would would pass on the clients who uh who were eligible to for financial advice.
• 25:41
  Neil Whiteside: And then the Schroeder side of it was we could lean on their on their sort of funds and and their expertise with their fund managers.
• 25:47
  Neil Whiteside: So for me, the idea of of having that blend of utilising you know Schroeder's who are a huge firm worldwide, you know, billions and billions under management, and and you know, speaking to those clients from the bank who for me from from knowledge of working with them in the past, knew that there was some really great clients that that that needed financial advice.
• 26:06
  Neil Whiteside: And I think for me, that was the one of the big draws that I, you know, through my experience of working in the bank for many years, I knew that a lot of them clients needed financial advice and they couldn't access it within the bank.
• 26:18
  Neil Whiteside: So once that sort of relationship was formed between Schroeder's and Lloyds and that process was was put in place, you know, it really got the fire in my belly of thinking I can go back and help a lot of these clients who I've seen in my branches, you know, years and years gone by, who needed financial advice and we couldn't provide them with it because for many years there wasn't no advisors in branches.
• 26:37
  Neil Whiteside: So and I think you know, the skills and and knowledge that I'd built up at Wesleyan, I could obviously take with me.
• 26:43
  Neil Whiteside: You know, I still spoke to some doctors, you know, I still come across some doctors and um and dentists, and obviously the NHS pension um knowledge could still be could still be sort of utilised effectively.
• 26:53
  Neil Whiteside: And I've you know, I still have that with me today, so I can I can lean on that as and when I you know, because I will speak to clients who could who come from that background.
• 27:01
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, in this point in your career as well, then were you leaning into anything outside of banking that was in maybe improving your skill set or opening you up to new opportunities?
• 27:13
  Neil Whiteside: So I did um decide to take on a bit of a role outside of work.
• 27:17
  Neil Whiteside: So I did for five years um take on a role as a as a school governor at a local school.
• 27:22
  Neil Whiteside: And for me, that was twofold, really.
• 27:25
  Neil Whiteside: Um one, because I think that financial education and financial literacy in school schools in general is really poor.
• 27:33
  Neil Whiteside: And I wanted to try and improve that and support with that because I go back to when I was young and growing up, you know, there was there was just nothing from that.
• 27:40
  Neil Whiteside: I think I remember, you know, a guy coming in from HSBC, you'd have to put a pound in an account, you got like a free football and something else, and that was it.
• 27:48
  Neil Whiteside: You know, that's all you sort of got to know.
• 27:49
  Neil Whiteside: But there's just no, you know, no basic understanding of you know, just how interest works, credit cards, and you know, I've had to learn the hard way, you know, when I was younger, ran up the credit cards and all that sort of stuff.
• 27:59
  Neil Whiteside: Um so I wanted to sort of be able to give back to my local community as well.
• 28:03
  Neil Whiteside: So I decided to step in in into that role, really, so I could, you know, get some understanding of of how things work at that level, be able to give something back.
• 28:12
  Neil Whiteside: So I built up some some great skills and experience doing that for a number of years.
• 28:17
  Neil Whiteside: Um and then from then on I've actually taken a next step now into a in into a sort of board trustee role at a local charity, which just felt like the sort of natural, natural next step.
• 28:27
  Neil Whiteside: So it's now I'm being involved at sort of board level, which you know, being involved in them sort of conversations, being party to them conversations and how businesses are structured and work and you know, profitability and sustainability, all that sort of stuff nowadays.
• 28:41
  Neil Whiteside: It's um it's just happened to my skill set because I want to be able to support, you know, going forward.
• 28:45
  Neil Whiteside: I like to give back for a start with you know to all voluntary, what I do, but also I want to be able to support businesses in the future as well with with sort of like non-executive director roles and bring all of my skills and knowledge and capability that I've built up over the years and be able to support with, you know, up and coming and growing businesses in the in the UK.
• 29:03
  Sam Oakes: Like it.
• 29:03
  Sam Oakes: Have you looked into the non-executive director route?
• 29:06
  Sam Oakes: Like when does that become an opportunity for somebody like you with the voluntary work that you've done and the background in financial planning?
• 29:13
  Sam Oakes: Is there a right time to do it?
• 29:14
  Sam Oakes: I've and I've never really myself looked to the non-exec director role.
• 29:18
  Sam Oakes: I feel like it it it's I can imagine I could probably get on to a non-exec director role in some capacity, I feel like to possibly add.
• 29:28
  Sam Oakes: And I feel like um I think it feels like it would be quite an interesting role as well.
• 29:31
  Sam Oakes: Because you're not in there doing it all the time, are you?
• 29:33
  Sam Oakes: It's just like so many hours a month that you would commit to it and you're just coming in with a fresh perspective and a fresh pair of eyes to be able to challenge, I guess, isn't it?
• 29:41
  Sam Oakes: And is that the sort of thing you're learning?
• 29:43
  Sam Oakes: And have you have you sort of explored that?
• 29:44
  Neil Whiteside: And yeah, so there's there's a couple of routes you can go down, really.
• 29:47
  Neil Whiteside: So, I mean, I've spoken to a couple of people who've who have gone into them environments and just gained a bit of feedback from them around what sort of things would I need to be doing to make that step, you know, just so I know if I'm on the right lines.
• 29:57
  Neil Whiteside: I think there's a couple of places out there nowadays where you can.
• 29:59
  Neil Whiteside: go and do like a specific sort of course and then they have like a um they have like a team around them and then they have sort of a platform of of businesses like startups and things and they can look to place you on onto a onto a board in a business that's the right fit for you that's looking for your particular skill set.
• 30:16
  Neil Whiteside: Obviously that that comes at a cost and when you go down that environment or the other way is to just build up your experience of doing sort of you know the sort of route that I'm going down of you know a lot of people do start off with sort of governance and and then into sort of board trustee roles and then you know even stepping into sort of chairing or or co-chairing sort of board so you can just build up more experience and and um look you know being involved a lot more and having that more accountability in order to again you know get yourself in the right position ready to sort of and and it's it's all done on a you know on an application basis as well so it's it's something that you know you can you can proactively go out and look for and and see what's available.
• 30:56
  Neil Whiteside: So yeah it's something that definitely that the the future's going to hold for me.
• 31:00
  Sam Oakes: I got a friend of mine and he's he's always been like a local counsellor.
• 31:04
  Sam Oakes: So he's got him been a local counsellor which he got paid for paid paid for doing that.
• 31:08
  Sam Oakes: That led him into some non-executive director roles so he was like on a the board of a um like a local gym swimming pool all of that kind of stuff so he was involved in that his journey's been quite an interesting one because he's always pretty much worked in like pharmaceutical sales and it's quite interesting because if he probably would be I don't know if I can say this or not but I won't say who he is but he just signed an 8 billion pound deal to sell some fighter jets to Turkey.
• 31:37
  Sam Oakes: So in the newspaper today to send me a photo of him and Kirstarmer.
• 31:41
  Sam Oakes: So it's interesting it's interesting what these levels of experience and these things can actually end up doing for you in your career.
• 31:49
  Sam Oakes: He ended up going over to the MOD.
• 31:51
  Sam Oakes: Yeah um but there's no doubt in the world that his exposure to you know local council politics didn't it really definitely enhanced his career and helped him sort of move into different directions and open doors.
• 32:06
  Sam Oakes: So yeah it's it's one of those things I think you know it's it it feels a bit more voluntary do I really want to do that but actually the some of the best experience you'll ever have is the voluntary work.
• 32:17
  Sam Oakes: I've the voluntary work that I've done because you have to go and you don't have to go at all because you choose to go um and you choose to get involved is a there's an altruistic take to it isn't there there's a there's a different there's a different look and a different feel to it and you can also be yourself right because you're not working for anybody so you can be yourself.
• 32:38
  Sam Oakes: Whereas when you are in a corporate world which you've predominantly had in your whole career up to this point is corporate corporate world and it's an odd one in the corporate world.
• 32:47
  Sam Oakes: You can't quite manoeuvre around in the way that you perhaps want to with your own opinions and your own kind of gender whereas you can in in in in a net role or you can in a in a role where it's voluntary and you can put your opinion cross and people will listen.
• 33:02
  Sam Oakes: It's nice.
• 33:03
  Neil Whiteside: And I think for me it's looking to sort of safeguard my future in retirement as well because I think you know what you what you find a lot of people do when they sort of slow down or they they sort of retire they do they can take on a couple of sort of net roles which gives additional streams of income you know into the retirement.
• 33:17
  Neil Whiteside: I mean I'm I'm hoping to you know it'll be way before then that I you know I get on some on some board supporting but I think you know looking at sort of the longevity as well it's it's another sort of you know another I've another formal retirement planning for me as well and keeping keeping sort of you know involved and active and being part of something because that's what I love to do you know be part of projects and support them with with growth.
• 33:39
  Sam Oakes: I spoke to a lovely lady today um from Crow to Achievia and um she picked up on my questioning techniques and said have you ever considered going down like the coaching route um and started explaining to me you know what coaches earn and how you can become you know that second stage of your life I'm 44 years old like when I'm maybe in my mid-50s or 60s coaching could be a really great revenue stream for somebody like me and the experience that I've generated by then.
• 34:06
  Sam Oakes: And I was like you know it's been mentioned to me a few times and you do start to think a little bit about what the future holds for you in respect of how you're going to generate and earn your income you know do I want to be running a podcast like that you know and doing what I do running around and at that age and could I move into something like that?
• 34:24
  Sam Oakes: Yeah it's interesting the whole Ned thing I'm quite I'm quite intrigued.
• 34:27
  Sam Oakes: So if anyone's listening and says whoa I you know sound good be a Ned hard business come and knock on my door and ask me because I might well be interested in find finding out more.
• 34:36
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Sam Oakes: So what about so you're in the corporate world right um everything's going hunky dory then by the sounds of it what what what's next?
• 34:46
  Neil Whiteside: So yeah that brings me to sort of my uh my venture now into into Faith Equitable and where I've where I've been since October.
• 34:53
  Neil Whiteside: So um no time like the present to take another risk with having a six month old baby at home.
• 34:58
  Neil Whiteside: But um but yeah I think for me it was um you know I was quite I was quite happy and and content in Troder's again in an environment where good benefits good pension you know all the stuff that comes with it and but for me an opportunity you know came about where I've got the you know the chance to go and be part of building something you know so I've joined a business that's you know fantastic business that's been established for 10 years you know in it in a great position from a funds under management point of view but very very different to what I'm used to so obviously working in a corporate environment with 300 plus advisors and you know a lot of lot of support staff um into a sort of team of four of us in a in a in a small sort of you know directly authorised IFA but for me you know the again the long-term goal and what I can be part of of building here is what got the fire in my belly and it's just an opportunity that I didn't want to walk away from so I think for me it was all it was always a case of do I I've got two options probably for the future it was either a case of go down the route of completely sort of self-employed start up my own maybe an appointed repo or something along those lines but again having three kids at home everything that comes with it it's a risk.
• 36:13
  Neil Whiteside: You know I do love risks but sometimes some risks are just are too big to take um but like you know this opportunity is something that's sort of you know well established and been around for sort of you know many years now and has got the the sort of grounding to you know to to grow arms and legs effectively and for me to be sort of you know a real big part of that and and growing the business out and and making you know what what we want of it effectively over time.
• 36:39
  Neil Whiteside: So that's what really really got me excited of the opportunity and but like I said it it comes with it um with its risks of of coming away from a of a corporate environment with you know like I say the the the the high pension benefits and the you know all the other additional benefits that come with it.
• 36:55
  Neil Whiteside: So taking a chance but for me you know I know it's going to be the right move and I'm very very confident in my ability to to grow this business where it's going to go to I love it.
• 37:06
  Sam Oakes: It sounds to me you can see around corners a little bit you're quite confident in what you predict the path will lead you.
• 37:12
  Sam Oakes: You know we can't predict the future but we can have a good roll of the dice and and and and and kind of have a little look under the bonnet as well.
• 37:21
  Sam Oakes: What where did this come about?
• 37:24
  Sam Oakes: Because you you know you're working in that corporate environment you're doing you're doing really well at Schroeder's what where did it come about?
• 37:30
  Sam Oakes: Was it like an innate itch within you or a burning desire to want to be part of something and build something that entrepreneur or what I like to say which you've landed on is more of that in intrapreneur?
• 37:43
  Sam Oakes: Yeah you know that intrapreneur where where where did it come from?
• 37:46
  Sam Oakes: Did it get presented to you?
• 37:48
  Sam Oakes: Did you go looking for it?
• 37:50
  Sam Oakes: You know how how long did you feel that way?
• 37:53
  Neil Whiteside: So I think for me it it it got presented to me because I think at the time I wasn't proactively looking because obviously we just had me me my my little boy who's who's now six months old so you know I was just sort of going back on paternity leave actually when when it sort of the the opportunity came about I think for me that the fire's always been there to you know don't get you know in the corporate environment that employed side of things I mean it's brilliant because obviously you know you've got your salary you've got your potential bonus that you can earn all that sort of stuff but then you think about like what you can potentially build ongoing.
• 38:24
  Neil Whiteside: So like your ongoing income and and things like that where you like you know you know you rightly just said be part of building something where you can build a bit of a you know a bit of a let a legacy and who knows for the future like I mentioned earlier about you know that the fact that there's um there's not enough females in financial planning.
• 38:39
  Neil Whiteside: You know I've got two daughters at home who I'd love to get into the industry in the future.
• 38:43
  Neil Whiteside: So for me it's a it it's sort of you know what can I build that I can potentially bring my family into and and and all that sort of stuff.
• 38:50
  Neil Whiteside: So yeah it was just a it got presented to me um got approached for the opportunity at first I was a bit hesitant because obviously I was comfortable and I was safe and all that sort of stuff but the more you know I am quite um I do like to look into the details so I've sat down and I've listened and I've spoken to you know recruiter I've spoken to the director and you know them conversations have I've gone on and on and the more and more I've found out about the business and where they are and where they want to get to and where I could add value, you know, for me it just became apparent that I was the right fit for it.
• 39:21
  Neil Whiteside: And there was no you know although I felt it wasn't there's no time like the present.
• 39:26
  Neil Whiteside: So you only get one life so you know live it.
• 39:30
  Sam Oakes: So you did your due diligence.
• 39:31
  Sam Oakes: So it was a kind of and I I like I like these opportunities because there are there are a number of small firms out there and those smaller firms are usually run by somebody that's probably in the age bracket of between 50 and 60 years old sometimes as well right it's more of those people out there than there isn't.
• 39:47
  Sam Oakes: So they're often thinking themselves like they've got a few years.
• 39:50
  Sam Oakes: They don't want to sell that business right now.
• 39:53
  Sam Oakes: They want to grow it and there is an opportunity to go into an existing business of a small to medium size and have a really have a real impact.
• 40:01
  Sam Oakes: And sometimes a lot of those people that run those businesses don't have a background of you know corporate you know they haven't been in that structured in that environment you know pay scales and career development plans and you know the corporate mindset is often something that lacks from a smaller business um of which can sometimes be an attractive asset an attraction to someone like you is like, well it's not corporate so great I'm going in here and I can it can be a bit more you know free flowing but also so much skill so much experience that you can drop into that business and add serious value with straight away and I think that's a a uniqueness as well and have you thought about how you know when you when you when you were talking to them were you getting excited about how you could say well we could do this we could do that and we could take this business here and we could take this business there.
• 40:49
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah.
• 40:50
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah mass massively massively excited and I think I think for me that's the bit that's the big difference um that I'm feeling at the moment you know is the the ideas that I've got and that I've I I can sort of you know put on the table we can actually just go and run with you know potentially run with them without that sort of red tape where you'd get in a sort of corporate environment obviously you know everything still needs to be compliant of course and meet regulation and all that sort of stuff but it's just a bit of a different environment and a different feel and I think going back to what you were just saying you know the experience that I've got of um you know I've got leadership experience I've got coaching experience I've got risk experience then obviously I've got all my financial advice experience you know in the corporate so for me you know me coming into the business is the sort of um you know what I want to become is is sort of the linchpin of of that business effectively I want to be the one who's who sort of operationally sort of you know supporting that business to to grow over time because I feel like I've got all of them skills and expertise over the years that I can I can bring to the table effectively.
• 41:50
  Neil Whiteside: You always have the autonomy to build your own client base um uh they're your clients or they are um there's a remuneration package which is better than what you are used to so you're incentivized if you like to build your assets under management personally do you feel like you've building a business within a business whilst helping the overall business grow have you got that kind of vibe going on exactly exactly that yeah so so you know came sort of you know came across on a on a salary basis but with with exactly that in in the sort of um in the trajectory so a case of obviously building a client bank benefiting from that sort of ongoing you know sort of building a business within a business effectively and the fact that you know the remains that because from a salary perspective I've got invested interest in that business as well I care you know I care about what I do you know I put everything into what I do so I I care about that business so I care about the risk I care about the the nature of the business I care about where it's going to go because it's gonna benefit me in that in the long run.
• 42:49
  Neil Whiteside: You know so for me looking looking further down the line you know potential sort of you know getting into the business and being involved with the business and potentially you know group structures that there's just so much that we can we can you know we can think about and do.
• 43:02
  Neil Whiteside: And I think that's what really drove me to take the opportunity was that I could have just much more of a hands-on decision making ideas you know innovation all that sort of stuff and and and being that sort of entrepreneurial mindset really of being able to build it within yeah because also coming from the corporate background it can be quite tricky to move clients you know let alone restricted covenants and things like that you're not moving from one business to another you you know you don't have novatable clients essentially you know you've got to stick to stick to your restrictions otherwise you can have tanks on your lawn.
• 43:32
  Sam Oakes: So there's a kind of worry and a risk there.
• 43:34
  Sam Oakes: So sounds like you landed on your feet there because it ticks a lot of boxes for you gives you that security gives you that long-term um opportunity small agile it's independent yeah directly authorized um you can move quickly within it and it gives you that kind of all the things you've built up over time when you probably wanted to make an impact and say do this do that you can now and it's quick and it's and it's sharp and it's nice.
• 43:59
  Neil Whiteside: If you if you look back over the process though of of moving from like Schroeder for example into that smaller firm right it's it's it's fair play to the the the the is it a guy who runs the business fair play what's his name Sam Sam yeah top name so fair play for Sam he must have really laid out an opportunity for you that was attractive what you know looking at it now looking at that process if you were to educate some other firms that are maybe struggling to attract advisors at the moment because a lot of them are especially those small to medium enterprises what could they do do you think to make sure that they are attracting good quality advisors with great quality background like yours who can come in and add value straight away I think I think it's given them given them a vision of what can potentially be possible of the in the future effectively and you know you see a lot of opportunities where it's self-employed you know 70 30 split 75 25 80 20 whatever it may be but I think for for me you know if you're wanting somebody to come in and grow your business and support you with with that growth journey and bring their skills and expertise and knowledge and actually care about the business they need to be incentivized and remunerated properly because I've the way I see it you know if if somebody's coming in sort of just taking this flit of it of a of a commission they've got no vested interest in that business.
• 45:18
  Neil Whiteside: They're just coming to earn the money and and they're just operating under that umbrella.
• 45:22
  Neil Whiteside: Whereas for me, you know being being sort of having remuner mm remuneration within the business but with obviously a view to being able to build within and generate from the ongoing income and potential for the future of you know be you know getting shares in the business or directorship under under another arm of the business that for me shows that you know they're investing in you and you want to give back to achieve that.
• 45:45
  Neil Whiteside: So you you know you really care about about the business and you want it to do well.
• 45:50
  Neil Whiteside: So you've got that drive and motivation to support and make sure it can you can get it to where it needs to be and you're going to be rewarded.
• 45:57
  Sam Oakes: What about the what about the drawing the corporate line?
• 45:59
  Sam Oakes: Because when you're in the business you know someone like Schroeder's perhaps they're not as enthusiastic as you might be about building a personal brand how is how have you felt you know has that unclipped your wings a little bit and opened up your opportunities within your mind around some of the thoughts and feelings that you might have when it comes to using LinkedIn or social media or YouTube or networking?
• 46:22
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah definitely I mean it you know it's it's within a corporate environment it's you know obviously very um it can be quite restrictive with things that you can do and and and what what have you but for for me now it does feel like I can sort of go out now and be just be myself and build this personal brand of who I want to be as as an advisor and the type of clients that I want to support you know and how I go about that.
• 46:47
  Neil Whiteside: So it's it's very it's it's just a very different feel.
• 46:50
  Neil Whiteside: Obviously you know we we was we're we're covered under the you know the the legislation and the and the the FCA guidance and all that sorts of stuff and the compliance side of things but I think just being away from that sort of corporate environment just gives you the opportunity to express yourself so much more.
• 47:07
  Neil Whiteside: And so for me you know exploring different opportunities you know being more active on on LinkedIn you know doing the likes of the that this podcast and and just going out and doing things a little bit differently and because for me it's a bit more of a you know a bit more business development slash advisor for me at the minute you know going out and building relationships like I did back when I was at Wesleyan and and sort of you know that that excites me as well because it gives me custom fire my belly to go out and you know you you're building it you're you're sort of generating them relationships you're starting from the bottom up and it give you know it gives you the great feeling of satisfaction when you when you actually get them clients on board.
• 47:41
  Sam Oakes: Love it.
• 47:41
  Sam Oakes: I suppose going back to basics as well and let's just talk about that you know if you if we've got a couple of new financial planners they might be listening to this podcast and you worked as a protection advisor for some time right yeah I know protection for you is a real positive you know you like talking about protection it's a it's an area of the business that you feel is very valuable and often gets overlooked in the whole advice process for AUM and investments and pensions and all the sexy stuff that's going to bring some level of ongoing um income.
• 48:10
  Sam Oakes: Tell us a little bit about the protection side and you know how say a new advisor could really lean into that to really accelerate their career and get stuck in and get that experience with advisors sorry with clients.
• 48:24
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah I think with protection for me I mean obviously I I've done a number of years like I said that lawyers are protection advisors who built up some really good sort of knowledge and experience in in that sector and that arena over time.
• 48:34
  Neil Whiteside: But I think as well on a personal level you know I've experienced over the sort of you know number of years I've experienced a few medical issues myself which has made it really hard for me to get protection which I've just experienced now coming away from um a corporate world where things are included and I've now had to go and try and get things externally and you know I'm having to sort of fight battles to try and to try and get things over the line.
• 48:55
  Neil Whiteside: But I think you know for me it underpins financial advice.
• 49:00
  Neil Whiteside: It ultimately is the most important element of financial advice because ultimately if you don't protect yourself then everything else can potentially fall apart.
• 49:09
  Neil Whiteside: So you know we speak to clients who are you know saving for their early retirement or they want to go on a holiday of a lifetime or a dream car.
• 49:16
  Neil Whiteside: But if they can't work or they get seriously ill with a critical illness or in the very worst case of scenarios they they die you know themselves or their family that are left behind are going to have to utilize all of that stuff that's put to one side for the the early retirement and whatever else to bridge the gap in the interim.
• 49:34
  Neil Whiteside: So for me you know the protection is number one and I think that the beauty is for new advisors coming in no matter who you speak to more often than not anyone over the age age of 18 potentially up to state retirement age or beyond in some instances will have a protection need and because everybody will work and will obviously if they're off sick they'll have income they'll they'll need income protection.
• 49:56
  Neil Whiteside: So obviously they'll get may get sick pay for a short time but what about if you know when it runs out um critical illness cover.
• 50:03
  Neil Whiteside: So again you know the the the big thing behind the critical illness cover for me is you know if somebody gets a critical illness and they need to adapt the home or they need to adapt the vehicle or depending on the severity of the illness they need to change a lot of things around the house or they might just want to go on a holiday of a lifetime and think we're going to go and have a great time with our family or they might want to go and see the best doctor in America.
• 50:23
  Neil Whiteside: That comes at a cost.
• 50:25
  Neil Whiteside: So you know does that client want that cost to come out of their area and savings that's set aside for retirement or for the dream holiday in the future of the kids' education or do they want a policy that will cover them and give them that and this and the same applies for you know on the life cover side of things we you know are really hone in on that when we're talking to people around you know if one of the parties pass away in it in a in a relationship you know their income is effectively gone they may they may have got them service or four times the salary that's great but what about in in five years when that's gone then you know that you know four years salary doesn't last forever and then there's a big gap so we're then potentially breaking into to other funds to which which may be safeguarded for the future.
• 51:06
  Neil Whiteside: So for me it underpins everything and and I think you know for new advisors coming in it it's a it's a great niche that they can sort of hone in on and give them a great a great sort of starting point because like I say everybody between the age of 18 and estate pension age will will have an element of of a protection need.
• 51:21
  Neil Whiteside: And I just think it is massively massively overlooked you know it can be I think definitely you know in in the corporate side of things when you're writing up your reports and cases and things it can be quite tricky.
• 51:32
  Neil Whiteside: There's little bits that you can that you can miss and you need to make sure of little dish additional bolt-ons and add-ons um but for me it's it's probably the single most important piece of financial advice that you can give to my end of the journey I love it we we produce the Just Covered podcast by Legal in general and always when the advisors come on and talk about protection it it's such a there's always these really incredibly sad at times but also incredibly positive stories.
• 52:01
  Sam Oakes: Whether it's somebody who's been left without a father or a mother but there is money there to be able to look after them when the when when you know when a parent's gone for example or a loved one's gone.
• 52:14
  Sam Oakes: I mean some of the stories are heartbreaking but without that protection that was in place it could have been so much worse.
• 52:21
  Sam Oakes: And then you think about the impact it has on the family for instance when that person's gone it's just it's it's it's incredible really do you do you remember the stories where you have helped somebody and is there one you can share today so if someone's listening for example even if they don't have one themselves they can use a story in their pitch couldn't they just to convince that person that it's the right thing to do.
• 52:44
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah it's I mean it it it's a very much it's a difficult conversation to have don't get me wrong you know it's it's not the nicest subject to be talking about and I think you know you've you've got to put yourself outside of your comfort zone to to be able to talk about it with clients but it's massively important.
• 52:59
  Neil Whiteside: So I mean I'll give you an example of a lady that I helped last year and I went to see her she was a self-employed therapist and she was on her own divorced I'd um and I'd identified that you know as a self-employed therapist she had no protection at all so we were we were looking at moving a pension which was on the back of a pension share and all this that was all good and well we were taking care of that but for me that the big thing was that if anything was to happen to her you know if she got ill and couldn't work she's got no income whatsoever she's got stayed you know um start off she's sick day which you know is 100 quid a week I think it's not it's not going to get you far.
• 53:33
  Neil Whiteside: And she had no critical illness cover at all which meant that you know if she got ill or if she got seriously ill she'd be utilising any you know the additional savings that we were doing into sort of the the stocks and shares ICE and putting money aside for the future she would have been able to break into that.
• 53:48
  Neil Whiteside: So for me I was we you know really strongly advising her that she needed to take out policies to cover her income definitely and obviously cover it in the event of a suffering you know a critical illness in the worst case scenario just just under 12 months later well well before we get to that the the lady ended up taking the policies after you know quite a battle because you know it can be costly this lady was in her 50s so it you know the older you are the the more expensive the protection can be which I'll go I'll come back to that in a moment as well but um so after quite a battle you know she she took my advice and she put the policies in place just before her annual review was due she got in contact with me to let me know that she'd had to use both of the policies so she'd unfortunately suffered a critical illness and she got a £50,000 payout on the critical illness policy and she had to take three months off work while she had the operation and she was undergoing treatment and whatever with obviously because she was self-employed she had no other form of income so she couldn't thank me enough for obviously you know being quite firm with her to say you know as your advisor I've got a duty of care to make sure you're covered and for me that is the most important part of the advice you know the other stuff will take care of itself over time but if you're not covering yourself that's going to have an impact.
• 55:02
  Neil Whiteside: So for her life changing you know she's got a 50 grand critical illness payout which supported her with she actually went on a nice holiday, treated herself went over in above than she normally would you know nice hotel just a little bit of luxury and it ensured that she was getting a good element of income while she was off so that she didn't have to worry about work.
• 55:20
  Neil Whiteside: So you know it just goes to show you that you know the the power of of of protection and and and how effective it can be the people.
• 55:28
  Sam Oakes: I think as well as the you know stats stats tell stories sell and I think every financial planner that I come across who values protection in the advice process don't shy away from the difficult conversations because they do have examples whether or not it's a friend or family member or it's somebody that they've worked with and that there's a client.
• 55:50
  Sam Oakes: But I think having a a briefcase full of those examples and those stories are the the most powerful things that I've come across within financial planning that gets people into a situation where they can comfortably have the conversation and do the right thing for the client basically I think it's it's powerful stuff.
• 56:06
  Sam Oakes: So thanks for sharing that story today.
• 56:08
  Sam Oakes: And also just listen thanks for sharing your career journey.
• 56:11
  Sam Oakes: I think it's a lovely career journey.
• 56:12
  Sam Oakes: I think there's a lot people get from it and one I think one thing I've taken from it is you know take a bit of risk in your career.
• 56:19
  Sam Oakes: There's nothing wrong with that.
• 56:20
  Sam Oakes: I've done it recently and sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't but you're always going to learn something from it.
• 56:26
  Sam Oakes: It's always going to open your eyes and sometimes staying in one place for too long you become a bit stagnant.
• 56:33
  Sam Oakes: And if it's a calculated risk and you can see there is a benefit to doing it go for it.
• 56:41
  Neil Whiteside: Yeah I think you know quote on the words of the famous Derek Trotter I say he who dares wins.
• 56:47
  Sam Oakes: Yeah that's what I live by I say that one a lot as well and listen listen thanks so much um Neil for your time today really appreciate your your journey sharing with us today on the financial plan of life um it is your life and it is your financial plan of life so thank you.
• 57:02
  Sam Oakes: Cheers thank you