Latest / The Long Burn / Episode 10 - Tunnel Vision and the Curse of the Time Traveler

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Episode 10 - Tunnel Vision and the Curse of the Time Traveler · The Long Burn

0:06
SPEAKER_01: Hello, once again, this is Joel Mallon, and this is the Longburn Podcast with Dr.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: Jonathan Wade.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: Hello, Jonathan.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Hi, Joel.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: How are you today?
0:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm good.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm not as congested as you are from what you're telling me.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you what, cutting the grass got the best of me out here.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, listen, just be honest.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: If you're snorting lines of coke, just put it out there.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, just don't kind of try to hide the booger sugar, okay?
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's right.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Booger sugar always tells on itself.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: It has been insane together.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's pretty, it's looks like it's about to storm here uh in Jacksonville.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: The wind has picked up, uh, the temperature has dropped, and so we're just waiting for the bottom to fall out.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: So, and today it was supposedly not going to get any rain, but that's Florida for you.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, Florida does what it wants, and Georgia's not much better, to be completely honest.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: So, well, so uh today's topic is going to be we'll do the big build up here tunnel vision vision and the curse of the time traveler.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: I like it.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Had to have a dramatic had to have a dramatic pause because I'm gonna put reverb on that in post so nobody'll even know it.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: So it'd be great except for that just said it.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: So anyway, uh, so yeah, we're gonna talk about the topic uh tunnel vision, the curse of the time traveler.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna explore some different themes and ideas uh surrounding that, and I'll kind of go into more detail about what exactly that means because I know that's kind of vague.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: And all of the SEO stuff says to have generic titles that people can search.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that is boring.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: I do not want to do that.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: This is supposed to be about us having fun and reflecting and kind of being free form.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: So it's like Harry Potter titles.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: It's like a Harry Potter title.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Henry.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, they said Henry Potter.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, bro, like, did you get that on Timu?
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, what is that?
1:51
SPEAKER_01: The Henry Potter trilogy.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: Harry Potter, Harry Potter, yeah, or the time.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Harry Potter.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: It does actually sound kind of Harry Potter.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: It really does.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's exciting.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: That's a Hogs Hogwarts masterclass.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: So all right, so let's kick it off with uh wins and losses.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: So for me, I will tell you a win that I had.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, I've talked before about the camper that we got to have like a guest house, you know, slash place for people to come visit and stay.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh the water heater was busted, didn't come on at all.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: And of course, you've got the internet at your fingertips.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: So after a little bit of searching, I found the parts that I needed for 45 bucks on Amazon.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: Of course, it was delivered next day and found a YouTube video to do the instructions on how to check all of the fuses and the wiring, and it is now functional.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: And I feel kind of like a badass.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Look at that.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: You've just learned so much.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: So much you've learned.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was really proud.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: Just being able to uh to identify resource and solve a problem for your family feels pretty awesome, you know.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: And in reality, it was relatively simple, but being able to do that, like I would have paid 150 bucks for somebody just to show up and tell me what the problem was.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: So um paying 45 to fix that, I was pretty jazzed about that.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's fantastic.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: Conversely, the loss is that the toilet was leaking.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: And I and so whoever owned this thing beforehand took the the rubber gasket off of the toilet, and so it was dumping into the black water tank, and some of it was splashing out, which I realize is a very disgusting thing.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: But I've I've changed my share of duty diapers.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: I was far more comfortable with that than I thought I would be, so it was a blessing in disguise.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I mean, be in in somebody else's poo gas water is uh a different experience, feels kind of like a loss, but it turned into a win because it's now solved for a again ten dollar part off of Amazon.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, all that is like physical wins and losses for me, just being able to be active and solve problems, which feels great, and I love doing that.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't like to sit still very long.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: So that was a lot of fun to uh see that resolved, everything.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: So uh what about you?
4:01
SPEAKER_01: Wins and losses?
4:02
SPEAKER_01: You got something else for us today?
4:03
SPEAKER_00: No, I I think I got a win and a loss.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: I think I think they kind of tie together like yours as well.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, I I really think my win uh would be I'm I'm really trying to flex the muscle of of delegation.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, you you know, and and maybe listeners have have figured out I I do a lot of stuff and I try to do a lot of stuff all at once.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm trying to do better about letting other people do things.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: Now, whether that's AI or employees here or we're trying to get some help, you know, from some standpoint.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: So I I was proud of myself for delegating a couple of things, uh, working on trying to do better about that.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, but then I think my loss was uh it came to that.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: It was it was to a point where I was feeling a bit a bit overwhelmed, uh having too much on my plate, trying to tackle too many kind of loose ends at one time, and and had to take that step back to say, hey, you you gotta you gotta pass the buck a little bit to get get some help here.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: So um I think they kind of tied in together like that, but um, I do feel better.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: I feel better.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: I think the win out out out uh ranked the loss.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: Good.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: I think part of the problem is that you know we can only float so much, and you know, there's a sense of weight or anxiety associated with too many tasks.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: And you can have all the mindfulness and coping skills in the world, but at some point you're just not gonna feel better until some of it goes off your plate.
5:25
unknown: Yeah.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: And and I just think that's the reality of the fact that we have limitations, and that's okay.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: That's a good thing.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: No, yeah.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's it's a work in progress, but we're getting there.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Hey, easy on the mic there, big guy.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: You're just coming in hot today.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: You're you're leaning in every time you talk, like you're you're just aggressive.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: Let me turn my gain up.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just a hair, just a just a titch.
5:47
unknown: There we go.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: A scoche.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: So, all right.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, so that's wins and losses for this week.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: So let's let's start moving into the topic of tunnel vision and the curse of the time traveler.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: And so I'll give some backstory on kind of what this is about.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: So um for that, it's story time with Joel.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: Um so tunnel vision, uh, something that my my dad told me a long time ago.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we were in the kitchen.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: I probably was, I don't know, 13, 14 years old.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: And um, he was explaining, you know, from a spiritual perspective, you know, how we look at life is that we tend to fixate on small things, but then God sees the big picture of what's going on around us.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: So he what he did is we had, because you know, whenever you're a kid, that a paper towel tube to uh tube, like the or paper towel roll, the little cardboard tube, or even better, the wrapping paper tubes.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: Those were swords, yes, clearly.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, those were also telescopes, they're sniper good ones.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: And so what he did is he picked up a uh paper towel roll and he said, Look through, look through this paper towel roll, what do you see?
6:51
SPEAKER_01: And I said, I see the corner of the chair on the table.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: He goes, Okay, now rip it in half.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: He said, What do you see?
6:59
SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, I see the kitchen table.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: He said, Rip it half again.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: What do you see?
7:03
SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, I see the whole kitchen.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: And so he he explained to me he that with tunnel vision, we we focus on such small issues, but God doesn't see through a tube.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: That he sees all the aspects of what's going on, he understands everything perfectly.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: And instead of being caught up in so many minute details, like there's this perfect understanding of the big picture.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: And so that my dad told me that years ago, and so that has just stuck with me.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: And so the reality of it is that we tend to have tunnel vision that something uh causes us to fixate and we focus on it too much.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: And focusing on something too much can oftentimes emotionally blow it out of proportion.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: It can make it seem more severe than it is.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, it can make us lose sight of, you know, the fact that we have choices or we have options or we have other ways of resolving the issue.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes we fixate on solving a problem the way we want to solve it, and that causes more problems.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: So that's the idea of tunnel vision.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I'm drinking our cherry coke.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: So, okay, the the next one is the idea that the curse of the time traveler.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: So I had a client I was working with, and um, he was getting out of the Navy.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: And during that process, for a lot of people who were getting out of the armed forces, it can be very challenging because you're making that transition from the military, which is, you know, very an all-encompassing support network.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: And it's also a sense of identity uh that you get uh associated with that.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: So he was nervous about getting out of the Navy and retiring.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Is he going to be able to find a job?
8:30
SPEAKER_01: Is he gonna be able to support his family?
8:31
SPEAKER_01: What's life gonna look like after that?
8:34
SPEAKER_01: And so the problem was that in this time that things seemed kind of rocky or unstable or unsure, he was going back and thinking of all the mistakes of how he could have shaped his career differently, where he could have more rank or be retiring with better income or different things like that.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: So he's either looking at the past or he was anticipating in fear of the future of whether he was going to actually succeed or not.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: And there was times he reported things like going out to have fun with his family, going to the beach and stuff like that.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: And his wife would just get in his face and be like, Where are you?
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, where why aren't you here with us?
9:10
SPEAKER_01: And so we kind of identified this idea of being a time traveler that he would either travel back to the past to perfect the present, or he would travel to the future to give him a sense of safety in the present.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: And so the problem is both of those efforts, you're not in the present at either time.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: And his family was feeling that.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: And so some of that was him learning to accept the complexity of past choices or the unknown or uncertainty of future situations.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: And so the same thing is true for us because uh we naturally have a fear of the unknown.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: And so this idea of control, um, the belief that we can control something, the belief that we can predict something, you know, the assurance that something is going to go well, it gives us a feeling or a sense of safety.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: But in reality, we don't need that sense of safety because you know, we've navigated everything up to this point in our life.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: Why would the next thing be any different?
10:02
SPEAKER_01: And so those are the two concepts we kind of want to play with today.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: And uh kind of to start that off, the the problem with it is that there's an emotional cost to this idea of time traveling.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, traveling to the past and perfecting the past is an effort in rumination and regret.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: And so, if you're not familiar with the word ruminating, maybe you've heard it, maybe not.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, it comes from ruminants.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Ruminants are things like cows, goats, and horses.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: And if you've ever seen them standing in the field, like it looks like they're eating, but you don't see them picking anything up.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: So ruminants have multiple stomachs for things that are difficult to digest and to extract the most nutrients.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: So they have a cud, and that cud is something that they will regurgitate from their stomach and they'll chew on it again and they'll swallow it.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: So it gives you a different idea of how we process the process the past.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Imagine the idea of yourself throwing up and then getting down the ground and licking it all up.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: That's what replaying the past is, is ruminating.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: And so it's a very unhealthy, uh unhealthy thing and it causes a lot of self-doubt.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: Traveling to the futures, on the other hand, is basically anticipatory anxiety, you know, the what if cycle, you know, that spiral that if you have one what if, it's going to create another what if, and it's going to create another what if.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: And the next thing you know, you're going to be living in a van down by the river, which now is a goal in today's society.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: So maybe that's not such a bad thing.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, so but either one of those, they they rob you from being in the present, enjoying the moment, and and ultimately robbing you of your ability to feel the benefit of the things that you're creating.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: So so just with that initial introduction, Jonathan, what are some thoughts that you might have about that?
11:43
SPEAKER_00: No, I I you know, when I was kind of looking up stuff uh for this topic, I I found something and thought about you is from psychology today, and it's it's that depression lives in the past.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: There's there's your ruminants, anxiety lives in the future, and calmness and peace of mind live in the present.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: So you're right.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I think we all can can reflect on ourselves, whether that is where we're trying to trying to time travel to the future, or we sit there and and and look at our past and and sit there and just create that depression.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: I it happens to the best of us, uh it happens to all of us, you know, even to this day, despite I think being aware of this.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: Um but it's it's it's a very tough battle.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: But you're right.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: I I tell people all the time, everybody's got a past.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's got skeletons, everybody's got stuff that that they're not proud of, um, or they wish they'd done different.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: But every every decision we've made in life is has crafted us into who we are today.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where you have to appreciate the presence.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: So, just out of curiosity, how would you distinguish the difference between like strategic planning for the future and time traveling that robs us of our life or our happiness?
12:51
SPEAKER_01: And I ask you specifically, because you I've told you this before, you float a lot of responsibility and a lot of mortgages and things like that that would just make me like absolutely cripple me with like, oh my gosh, how am I going to do this?
13:04
SPEAKER_01: So, how do you know the difference between strategic planning and the toxic time traveling?
13:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think it it's it's kind of about sort of what we talked about before, being productive and being busy.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, if if I can if I can strategize about the future and then I've got a freedom by 50 plan and and some different steps that I that I know that if I just take these every day, I'll be productive and achieve my goal.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: But I also struggle with getting in negative cycles and and and stressing myself out.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: I this happens uh you know once or twice a month, and I have to kind of talk myself off a ledge because then that anxiety, that stress doesn't get me anywhere.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like a rocket chair.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: It gives me something to do, but I don't go anywhere with it.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: Um and so I think learning how I feel.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: When I start to feel anxious, uh when I tense up or I don't sleep well, or I I you know, everybody can just kind of feel that in themselves.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: I I really have to take a step back and say, hey, just breathe.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, let's let's give it a couple of days and and recheck back in.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, like I said, with with the the life that that we live and the things that we're doing, uh you know, day by day, there's there's huge swings, whether that's you know, in in patient volume.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: It was okay, so uh to everybody listening, well, we just had uh outage there for a second.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: So Jonathan dropped some words of wisdom in there, lost to the ether of the internet.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Um thanks a lot for that, ATT.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Supposed to be fiber internet.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh anyway, well, so um unfortunately, uh imagine you probably can't repeat exactly what you just said.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I guess if I was kind of giving my take on how do you know if it's strategic planning versus versus like toxic anxiety or time traveling or something like that, does the effort of you brainstorming and game planning give you a sense of joy or excitement, or does it give you a sense of fear and trepidation?
14:53
SPEAKER_01: To me, that's a good measurement.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the idea of starting your own medical practice, you know, did that create excitement for you, or was it only just terrifying?
15:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm I imagine it was maybe a mix of both, but which one was greater?
15:05
SPEAKER_00: No, I I think it it in that stuff energizes me.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: I I think the planning, the preparation, the the the the strategic side of things really energizes me, but then it's it's along the way when you start to second guess or go what if or you have a couple of days of of bad news or or stuff doesn't go your way, things are delayed, and then you go, Well, crap, was I supposed to do this?
15:27
SPEAKER_00: Should I back out?
15:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, I never should have gone down this road.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: But I I've come to learn that whether that's in in life, in family, in business, in spirituality, all that's just a test, right?
15:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's kind of kind of the storm that we have to keep walking through in order to get to the other side.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: And that's where our greatest achievements, our greatest growth, um you know, that's where that happens.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: And so I I think once you've seen that, once you've experienced it, yeah, I still struggle with the stress, the anxiety, the worry, the uh waking up at 3 a.m.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: covering a cold sweat, going, what am I doing?
16:03
SPEAKER_00: But I have to tame that and just keep pushing on, realizing that hey, if we fast forward 48 hours, I'm not gonna be worried about that anymore.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: Um well I and I like a 10-step plan of attack.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: I I like that, but a lot of times it's impossible to plan that far ahead.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things I heard someone say before is um, you know, can you just commit to doing the next right thing?
16:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, with whatever the goal is, instead of looking too far ahead, can I just commit to what that next right thing is?
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Because we start to, we start to lose traction when we start, you know, overlooking or skipping steps, steps in a process.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: Because let's say that, you know, you wanted to open up a practice and you didn't have a business license, how long would it take before the government came for their payout?
16:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, right, right, right, right.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Or the count or the city or the county is just like, hey, hey, you can't do that here, you know.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I agree.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: So with everything, whenever you whenever you skip those processes, you know, and try to make it happen faster.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: And some of that is the idea that it's like called destination addiction, that you want something so bad that you lose sight of what's falling away in your effort to get there.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: And uh, and so that that time traveler, if he's already in the future, do you think he's paying attention to what's happening in his family or in the present or at the house?
17:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I agree.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: That can be hugely problematic.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that's that's where it's come in for me has has been, you know, Candace being sort of that counterbalance for me that if I get too caught up in things or working too much, you know, she'll ask me just to you know be present.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: And we and we've set aside those times.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: We've talked about it here.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: I'll go home tonight after this and we'll talk for an hour or so about the day, about the podcast, how things are going, and then work work conversation will be done.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: And then it'll just be family time.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: So another issue is like if if you have problems creating time for those conversations and being specific about scheduling when is this time for it's okay to talk about work, and when is this more about our family and our individual goals and stuff like that, is the idea of being a ghost at the dinner table.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: That you're there, you're present, but you're a shell.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: And it some of this is like the idea of how does this impact your family.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: So everybody's like, Well, I'm there, you know, I'm I'm with my family.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay, being present in person, but mentally or emotionally absent doesn't really benefit anybody.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: It's like whenever somebody says, Hey, let's go do this thing, you're like, Well, I don't really want to.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh, come on, man, go.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: Fine, I'll go.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: And then you ruin the experience for everybody else because you're in a bad mood or something like that.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: You would have it would have been better just to not go, okay, yeah, you know, versus to go reluctantly or resentfully or something like that because now everybody else is miserable along with you.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: And so, I mean, that is absolutely something that catches on because kids pay attention to not just whether you're there physically, your body language.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, probably everybody can remember being a kid, and you knew if dad was in a bad mood, you're like, now's not the time to ask him for 20 bucks, you know.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know that he's gonna kick your butt out in the backyard, you know, or something like that.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: And so, like, you learn to read those expressions of not just whether someone's physically present, but whether they're also emotionally available or psychologically available.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: And I had a client that told me this uh years ago, I think I mentioned it before on the podcast, is um in terms of this, that they said that your heart and your feet have to be in the same place.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: And so if you're physically with your family in person, you also need to be emotionally and mentally with your family in person in that moment as well.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: And so that that plays into ideas of grounding and mindfulness, which is essentially pulling yourself out of the time travel machine and being anchored to what's happening around you.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: So, uh Jonathan, is there ways that you feel like you've been able to kind of reorient with that?
19:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I mean, and and I think it's it's again that the sort of the checks and balances with with when all of your jobs you you work with your wife and then you go home to that as well, you know, trying to find that that true work-life balance because you know, shil at this, and I'll say it too, I I could work 24-7.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, I can always find something to do, um, to work on, and and at some point it's just not healthy and it's it's not productive.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: It just becomes busy work.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Um and again, that's where that that anxiety is kind of rooted for me, is when I feel like I'm doing things, nothing's getting done, um, and I feel like I'm falling behind.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: So I would rather time block, be productive, get stuff done, and then be able to enjoy friends, family time watching Netflix, eating dinner than than just yeah, right, being a shell, not not being present.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, and part of that is you know, success is addictive.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: Like when you have a major win, like it's absolutely addictive.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: And so you can't wait until the next victory or the next win that you're gonna have.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: But the problem that comes up with that is you're essentially moving the goalposts all the time.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, that you tell your family, oh, once we get to this sustainable point, then I'm done.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: How many people do you know honor that?
21:14
SPEAKER_01: Not many.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: Eventually at some point, they're gonna be, they're gonna be the person's gonna get like not uh satisfied with their success or they want more.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: Just like the idea of how much money is enough.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and there's even a phrase in in uh recovery and AA groups and stuff like that.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: They say uh one drink is not enough and enough drinks is too many.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: That there's an addictive aspect to it.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: And uh so so the idea is like how do you kind of latch on to moments of victories, you know, and we've addressed that with with the team at the home and everything else, and not just moving immediately to the next thing, but sitting and enjoying, like, man, we've come so far.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: And so that this is like a positive sense of rumination.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: It's like, where did we start from?
21:59
SPEAKER_01: And I can think.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: About the progression of the original direct dock building that was in was it Phelps Jewelers that was there in Nashville?
22:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a little bit.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: So starting there, and I mean I remember still got that picture of like that's where it all began with how many patients did you open up with?
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we were very fortunate, had a hundred on day one from a small local business that that believed in what we were doing.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it it pales in comparison to where we are now.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: From the time that you moved to uh from the original building to the second building, like what was the growth?
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's when we hired on a big, big boat company, Chaparral Boats, here locally, and and we jumped from uh like three or four hundred patients and and gained about eight to nine hundred patients overnight.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: And that's that was terrifying.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: I would imagine that probably felt like a high though at the same time.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: Like holy crap, this thing that I built works and people are interested and they want to be a part of it.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: And then when the dust settles, it was oh gosh, how do we see all these people?
23:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, how how do how do we over over deliver on on what we've promised?
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, from a care perspective.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: And so I I think those are the anxiety-inducing aspects of of thinking in the future, like right, that that was thinking down the road, way down the road.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Um and and we did it.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: We did it one small step at a time.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: We learned from our mistakes, we we made adjustments, and and ultimately it's it's worked out in an ongoing six-year uh relationship now.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: And so I hope it's okay to bring this up.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, nobody listening probably knows what we're talking about, but you know, coming to, you know, we talk about success being addictive, but even failure, you know, teaching us to not try to achieve any more, you know, and I think the effort of moving the clinic to or open a second clinic in Valdasta, I don't think turned out to be what initially you hoped it to be and everything else, you know.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: So what do you do with that in your mind?
23:54
SPEAKER_01: If that's something that's okay to bring up.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: I talk about it all the time.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I and I I think what it was was that we had had so much success, so much adoption here in Nashville that I thought, yeah, if I open this office, if you build it, they will come.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: And and that's just not how the medical community or the community as a whole in in Valdasta works out.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Plus, I I was not necessarily nobody really knew me down there.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: I'd worked in ERs and urgent cares and different things, but I'm not a native.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I think that was uh something that held us up.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I had to kind of tuck my tail after about 18 months and realize it's just it's not gonna work.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I beat myself up for a long, long time.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: I had my first panic attack, that was exciting.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh, you know, just uh having to eventually realize, and this is why I like to call them, you know, learning lessons and not losses, is that I didn't lose, I learned.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: I learned that you know, we have a really good thing here in Nashville with a really good group of of office staff and a and a wonderful group of patients, you know, and and will that be replicated somewhere else one day?
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think it's gotta happen organically versus you know me trying to force the future.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: Um and so I would say that's a pretty courageous maybe too.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Like most people, once they've had something that felt like a significant failure, it's like, oh, I'll never do that again.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but but then I I I mean if if you don't quit, you don't you can't lose.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm gonna try again.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: But then I get bored and I'm gonna want to try again.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: Sure, yeah.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think some of that comes from the the direct primary care movement as a whole.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, we we got we didn't get involved right at the beginning, but but we've been involved for, you know, uh over eight years now, and it was it was very much grassroots then, and I think it had been much, much more grassroots prior.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: But uh compared to what they have now.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they've got a DPC Alliance, there's Facebook pages, there's there's mastermind groups, there's a whole lot of notoriety, and and a lot of people are are getting involved, but there there weren't those lines of communication, there weren't those opportunities back then.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Um you know, so so that that movement means something to me.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: And if if I can take it to another small town or another town here in South Georgia and and bring that to the masses and see that that others can can wake up and find the benefit of of a direct you know relationship with their doctor, um, then that's what I want ultimately.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that kind of goes back to the idea we talked about of like building the parachute.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, you jump and then you build the parachute on the way down.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean, essentially when you were starting doing this, the airplane existed, you know, but that was it.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: And you had to figure out what the parachute looked like.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: And I know I know you've pivoted different times on EMRs and how you communicate with patients and different things like that.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think you're still, from what I understand, you're still open to hey, what what's most effective?
26:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, let's do that.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: Not like, well, this works and I'm not changing anything.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, that that just robs you of so many other successes that you maybe couldn't have predicted.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I so yeah.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: We're flexible, like you said, be flexible.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: And so going back, one of the techniques.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we've talked about some of the problems with the tunnel vision of fixating on a goal and you know, the curse of the time traveler of not being present, what's happening in the moment.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I wanted to kind of talk about some ways that that can be remedied.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you do?
27:18
SPEAKER_01: What do you do if you feel stuck in that routine or in that mindset?
27:22
SPEAKER_01: And so going back to the idea of the clinic in Valdasta, you could easily say, I had an in a business endeavor that failed.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: And so maybe that's the way that you feel.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: That's maybe the way somebody could perceive it.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: But the the idea of the technique is saying, and yet.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: So I had a clinic in Valdasta that failed, and yet we still have a thriving medical practice.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what it came down to.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Because what the fixation is is you fixate on the failure instead of the continued success in the other areas.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's the area you need to continue to focus on is what is working, what's already working.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, we had a an endeavor that failed, and yet we're still able to keep moving forward.
28:05
unknown: Yeah.
28:06
unknown: Yeah.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: And and I mean that that was not an easy process.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: That was probably a solid six months where I think I, you know, beat myself up and ruminated on on that that failure until I realized, you know, how great things were.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: And I and I think part of that too was, you know, we'd been doing it for a while, and and there was a a point in time where every new patient was so impressed and everybody was so amazed at what we were doing and how we were doing it.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: And and those comments from a new hot girl in town.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, those comments and compliments were were helpful.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: They made me feel good about what we were doing.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think at that point we'd been doing it long enough where the the wind had kind of gone out of that sail.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: We weren't hearing it, you know, people had kind of got used to to the idea and the practice.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: And and so I think on top of the Valda office not working, and then there not being that kind of emotional surge of patients really appreciating what we do.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it was kind of the perfect storm.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: And like I said, after about six months, I picked my butt up and said, you know, I I do appreciate what we've got here.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: And and I think we were on the verge of of needing a bigger place uh from where we were at the time, and and that was exciting and terrifying.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, I I I celebrate the small wins, I celebrate what we can do for our patients, uh, both clinically, but also just in their lives, you know.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: Um it has nothing to do with a prescription, has nothing to do with an EMR, um, but it's just just me being a guy talking to you know another guy that's going through it, or or or you know, uh a patient where they've got some family issues with kids, and I can say, well, hold on, let me tell you what we got going on just so you feel better and realize you're not alone.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: So you know, all of that really ties together, and and I had to to refocus on that to to build back that momentum, that confidence.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: And and I think we're doing we're doing great now.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: So another thing that um people maybe people have heard of this before, they call them worry stones.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever heard of that?
30:08
SPEAKER_01: You keep a stone in your pocket and you can squeeze it or you can rub it or feel it or something like that.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, so some of that is is based on a grounding technique where it's like it brings you back into your body.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: So we got five senses, you know, um, sight, smell, touch, taste, and hearing.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: And so what it does is when we engage with our biological tactical senses, it brings us back into the moment because stress and anxiety, rumination and anxiety, it's all in your in your mind.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: It's cerebral.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: And today's society forces us into our mind instead of allowing us to remain in our body.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: And so there's a lot of people that are um physical laborers that they work with their hands every day.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: A lot of those people express a higher work-life balance satisfaction because they're feeling the benefit of the work that they're doing, and they're also remaining grounded in the moment because they're using their body and their senses constantly.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: But having something as simple as like a worry stone, it's almost like you can mentally project whatever you're experiencing into that inanimate object.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: It's not magic, it's not science, it's it's a it's mental discipline.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: And so some of the ideas also the threshold ritual that let's say when you get home, your practice is to throw your keys and your phone into a basket or something like that.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: That's your ritual of whenever I get home and I cross the threshold of my home, all of those other concerns related to work or the future or something are in this basket or they're associated with this phone.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: And I would say for most people, their anxiety is tied to their phone.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: But uh you have something that's a mental exercise of you cognitively, consciously saying that all of this is going to remain with this object.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: So it what it makes me think about is you remember uh National Lampoon's Christmas vacation, and he had every time he went up the stairs, he had that new post that was loose.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: And he touched it, he touched it every time he went up the stairs.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: But finally, one day he had enough and he cut that thing off.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: He said, fix the nool post, you know.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: And so, but it's like these routines and rituals that we have.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: What if we had positive rituals that helped us to offload some of our attention instead of feeling like we had to act on all of it in that moment?
32:12
SPEAKER_01: And that's where that that sense of being overwhelmed comes from.
32:15
unknown: Yeah.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I agree.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: And and I I don't personally care or rock in my pocket, but I think one of the things that helps me ground is is journaling.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: Because and I've told patients this that I try to close every entry with a paragraph of of gratitude, of what I'm grateful for, no matter what kind of shit's going on in life, whether at home, at work, kids, whatever, you know, I have a bunch to be grateful for.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: And I think if I can close with that, it grounds me in the present, makes me appreciate what's going on.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I really feel like a weight is off my shoulder when I do that.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've got some folks that meditate, uh, some folks that use exercise for that.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I I think everybody's got to have something that is a positive way to unload that stress.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I like the rock idea because then it's like, hey, you got a rock in your pocket?
33:06
SPEAKER_01: Are you happy to see me?
33:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, that's man, that's that's perfect.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: It's a great conversation starter.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: God.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: Yep, yeah, you're right.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: So uh with with that being out there, uh, years ago, this is when I was in college, I was a teenager, I was working at a church as a uh youth pastor, music minister, stuff like that.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, something I realized is that I was super busy with work and super busy with school and everything.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: And I remembered perceiving people as a barrier.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: Like I had things that needed to be done, but people want to interact with you, they want to talk to you or something like that.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: And I can remember trying to end conversations as quickly as possible just to get to the next thing.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't like that because I want to be able to see people as a benefit, not as a means to an end.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: I want to see people as worthy of my time and everything.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: And so something I had to start practicing was when I felt that push or that busyness or that hurry or rush or whatever you want to call it, I had to consciously tell myself, is there's nothing more important than what I'm doing right now.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing more important than what just came up that, you know, this this individual, this human being who wants to share a moment in community, in conversation, whatever it might be, you know, I I can't honor somebody else's experience when I'm looking at the fastest way to bypass them.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: And and I felt very guilty for having that perspective.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: And even still, like I have to remind myself like, hey, there's nothing more important than this conversation I'm having with this human being right now.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, so many people they they listen to respond.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: I think we do that in arguments or in general conversation, and we don't we don't listen to to understand.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I heard a quote from somebody that I listened to, and they said, you know, if if you you really want to work on your social skills and building relationships, don't be the most interesting person in the room, be the most interested person in the room, you know, and give your time, give your, give your all to people that you talk to so that they can share what they've got going on.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: But what about me?
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, or absolutely that little voice pops up all the time.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's tough.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: No, I think that I think that's super important.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: Let's see, so I I think I think that covered pretty much most of the topics I wanted to bring out.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: We're getting c we're getting a little bit past our 30-minute mark.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, so any any final thoughts or anything else you wanted to add to um these ideas?
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I I mean I I think uh on average, I think it's like 85% of what you worry about never happens.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: And and you can vouch for this and know I I used to be terrified by weather, bad weather, just and I think it's because I'm a type A and I couldn't control it, and it just got the best of me.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, over the past year or so I've I've done a lot better with that, you know, realizing that you know, if they're calling for a 5% chance of severe storms, that's a 95% chance that nothing's gonna happen.
35:58
unknown: Absolutely.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: And that's I've I've kind of rested my laurels in that, and that's helped so much.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: Because it could it be bad?
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Could be, you know, or it could be good, you know, but the chances of it being bad are not zero.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: And that's where we latch on to that fact that it's not impossible for it to happen, and that's what we choose to focus on instead of the uh just you know, I've used the social math example of like how many positive interactions versus negative interactions.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Most people have an overall positive interaction with other human beings, but they focus on the maybe two percent of the time where they've had difficulty getting along with somebody, and that's just bad statistics and bad math.
36:35
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, and and it gets you caught up in all of this, yeah.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: You you you you ruminate on the on the negative versus celebrating the positive.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: So okay.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think we beat that to death.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: So don't be a time traveler.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Unless you actually have a time machine, then give me a call.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like because I would definitely check that out.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm ready to explore some butterfly effect, some cause and effect issues here and see if something happens.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe I could meet Godzilla or something weird in another life.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
37:04
SPEAKER_01: But um, no, good luck to all you guys.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: Try to, you know, be careful whenever you do feel fixated.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: Just start working on some techniques that work for you.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, any of the things that we suggest, and I'm always trying to be you know encouraging about this as a clinician, there's no one size fits all for anybody.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: There's no one thing that manages anxiety, there's no one thing that helps you stay in the present or in the moment.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: But start experimenting and figuring out like how you have a game plan of what works for you.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: Try it.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: And if it works, hone it.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: If it doesn't work, move on to the next attempt, you know, and continue to do that until you feel like you are able to check in in whatever that may look like.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: Because you know, what's happening today, your future will not be here unless you navigate today first.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: And so that's an important thing to remember instead of getting too caught up in what's to come.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: So um, if there's nothing else, then we thank you guys uh for listening today.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: I want to apologize.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: I feel like we had some latency issues in our connection, like the audio might have been delayed a little bit.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: So I apologize if that was distracting for anybody.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: And uh we'll try to get our internet browser beat into submission so that uh it could have better quality uh bandwidth and everything else.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: And I'll get my allergies under control so I don't sound like I'm talking about.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: Blow your nose.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: Nasty, there's nothing in there.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: It's just all congestion.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: I told you, booger sugar, it's the booger sugar.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: All right, you guys.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, y'all be safe out there.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Y'all have a great time.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Live a full life.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Love your family, love your higher power, your spirituality.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: Embrace that and uh pursue happiness with everything that you got.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: Till next time.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: Goodbye.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: This has been The Long Burn.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: Bye.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: Bye.