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Episode #104: The Label that Duped Dr. Sina: "Gluten Free" · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: They go quote unquote gluten-free and they don't feel better whatsoever.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: So logically, that person is going to conclude that gluten is not a trigger for them.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: But what we're finding is that when people are presenting with autoimmune or chronic diseases, that's actually not usually the case.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, most prominent um functional medicine practitioners are now assuming that if you are on the autoimmune continuum or you do have a chronic disease, then you do have a problem with glutins.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everybody, to another episode of Beyond Labels with Joel Salatin.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: That would be me, your farmer, and Dr.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Cena McCullough, our favorite researcher.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is going to be part two of a drill down in the whole gluten question, the grain question.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, uh bread and grain that go back, you know, in antiquity.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't know a time when people didn't eat uh bread or grain.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh if there's one topic that's gotten uh pushback, I think, it's all of us who love, you know, uh a donut and who love some cake, uh, along, you know, this this just uh kind of gets us in a in a tough emotional spot.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're gonna take the last enjoyment out of my life, you know, kind of thing.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you miss the last one, go ahead and jump on the last uh part one of this.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think it'll it'll it'll kind of um uh make your hair curl if you've never heard anything about gluten.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but number but but now we're gonna drill into uh the the kind of the history or the the pitfalls, I guess, a lot of them behind the um gluten-free labeling that's going on now.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's it's such a fad.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean gluten has now been you know, um there there are there are times when uh new findings seem like they're oh they're almost like um uh a conspiracy and that's a fad.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then everybody jumps on the bandwagon, and that's kind of where we are now with with gluten.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that it's uh it's very much a big deal.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so the industry has responded with all sorts of gluten-free this, gluten-free that, gluten-free the other.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so in this one, uh Cena's gonna drill down a little bit in those claims, those labels, some of the some of the uh history behind it, and why some of it may not be um as as as solution-oriented as you may think.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Cena?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Great, all right, thanks, Joel.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I want to start off by by uh citing a study.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Most people that I talk to think that they don't have problems with grains um or glutens because they're not experiencing immediate symptoms once they consume the grain.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, like we're talking about like gastrointestinal symptoms, for instance.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, based on studies, it's estimated that one out of every seven people with gluten issues has gastrointestinal symptoms, which means only about 14 people on average who do have a problem with gluten will present with a gastrointestinal symptom.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I was one of those lucky people.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that I had a problem with grains because I would have severe, you know, gas and bloating, constipation.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they termed it IBS.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but for the remaining 86% of people roughly, their first symptom is not going to be a gastrointestinal symptom.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Their first symptom could be high blood pressure or diabetes or ADHD or uh blood sugar issues, you know, heart disease, autism.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a misconception to think that if you don't have gastrointestinal issues, then you don't have a problem with grains.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's also common because of the gluten-free label, right?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's also common for someone to go gluten-free and then they start feeling better and then they feel worse again.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or they go quote unquote gluten-free and they don't feel better whatsoever.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So logically, that person is going to conclude that gluten is not a trigger for them.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: But what we're finding is that when people are presenting with autoimmune or chronic diseases, that's actually not usually the case.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, most prominent um functional medicine practitioners are now assuming that if you are on the autoimmune continuum or you do have a chronic disease, then you do have a problem with glutens.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm going to dive into um issues with this label, how the label came about, issues with the label, and why we're seeing the problem with um people thinking they don't have problems with grain because they're eating the grain, the gluten-free food, but they really do.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so when I say gluten, what foods usually come to mind?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is usually like the wheat, barley, and rye, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes oats.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason we have that definition is because of the Food and Drug Administration, the FDA.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: They decide what is allowed to be labeled as quote unquote gluten-free.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And according to the FDA, only wheat, barley, and rye contain gluten.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: But that definition is outdated.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: It came from World War II.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So in 1944, in the Netherlands, they experienced what we call a winter of starvation.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And this is when the Germans cut off their supply of wheat, barley, and rye.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: At that time, there was a Dutch pediatrician named Dr.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: William Dickey, and he was caring for children who were hospitalized with celiac disease.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: He observed that this forced change in the children's diet resulted in elimination of their symptoms.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this is even though the children were starving.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So they were starving, but the grains were taken out of their diet and they actually were healing from celiac disease.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, after the war ended, those three grains were once again consumed by the children and they relapsed, right?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: They got sick again.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: This was the first conclusive evidence that grains could trigger celiac disease.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately, it also led to the mistaken quote-unquote truth that only wheat, barley, and rye contained gluten.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's because those three gains, three grains were staples in the Netherlands at the time.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So they were naturally characterized as the gluten-containing foods.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Other grains like rice and corn were not as readily consumed.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So they weren't tested to determine if the children's bodies reacted to those foods.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And as a result, for about 70 years, grains like rice and corn have been considered, quote, safe to eat for people with celiac disease and gluten sensitivity.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then in 2013, this truth, this generally recognized quote-unquote truth, was officially adopted by the FDA when they defined gluten-free to be foods that don't contain wheat, barley, or rye or cross-bed hybrids of those grains.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: So part of the problem is when the FDA was devising this definition of gluten-containing foods, they quote assumed that all other grains were safe, including corn, rice, quinoa, buckwheat, millet, amaranth, teff, and sorghum.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So here's one example.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: To substantiate their claim that rice and corn were safe, the FDA cited evidence, which actually acknowledged the grains weren't adequately tested, that some people do react to grain, and that there the distinction between safe and unsafe was determined somewhat arbitrary.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the piece of evidence they used, right?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna, this is a quote.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Rice and corn have generally been considered safe grains for celiac patients, although, once again, there has been lack of rigorous controlled scientific study of these grains in relation to celiac disease, especially with up-to-date methods.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Adverse reactions to what I shall somewhat arbitrarily term safe grains for celiac patients may not be common, but they do exist.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Such adverse reactions should be the subject of more research as to the mechanisms involved.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So arbitrarily determine that they're safe, even though they know there's adverse reactions.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the FDA, what they did was they largely based their definition of gluten on gliadin.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Gliadin is the primary gluten protein that is found in wheat.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: But today we know there's not just one gluten protein.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: As I said in the other podcast, there's hundreds, thousands, possibly of different types of gluten proteins, which means there's probably more that we have not even discovered yet, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we also know that gluten isn't just in wheat, barley, and rye.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: We know it's in all grains, including corn and rice.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, each type of grain contains one or more type of gluten protein.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna try on our, you know, we have a low tech.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um Joel and I are very low tech, but I'm gonna try to share my screen to show you this chart.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh let's see if I can do this.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Can you see this chart?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can see it.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can see it fine.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yay! We just advanced in our technology, Joel.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're sharing straight.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: You did, I'm just looking.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this chart, uh, this table lists the primary type of prolamine, right?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's in the middle here.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: So the grain is on the left-hand side.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: In the middle, it's a primary type of gluten protein or um prolamine, which is a subfraction of gluten, and it contains the percentage of gluten contained in that grain in relation to the total protein content.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you can see wheat, this is the primary um form of gluten.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's gliadin, it's 69% of the total protein.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, here's the primary type of gluten for rye.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, avinin is the primary gluten type of oats.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Come down here to corn, it's um zane, um, rice, orthanin.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you can see the different percentages.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you can see we do know that in this sample of grains that I'm lifting, they all contain some type of gluten in them, right?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: As I said, there's not just one type of gluten.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and and the total amount.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this is important to remember when we talk about gluten-free whiplash in just a minute.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So wheat contains what we think is the highest amount, 69% of glutens.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you get down here to like rice contains 5%.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a lower amount.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna say these are not exact percentages because they've changed over time as hybrids were designed to contain higher levels of gluten, like to make fluffier breads, for instance.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: But this gives you an estimate of you know the types of gluten and the amount of gluten.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, can you see me now?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh sure can.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yay!
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so so gluten.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, so gluten, uh the reason that gluten from from a whatever, a cooking culinary baking standpoint, gluten is what makes things uh enables things to be real fluffy.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and so that's why we've uh we've you know, in modern times, we've hybridized it to contain more gluten because people want their fluffy bread, right?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So gluten has changed, which we we mentioned that in the previous podcast.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, so uh I should say the gluten content has changed.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so but in spite of this evidence that all grains can contain a type of gluten, the FDA still doesn't acknowledge, it still doesn't acknowledge this modern evidence.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: They still base this gluten-free food label on the outdated, inaccurate information.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's dangerous because it puts some of us in harm's way.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked about in the last podcast on this topic that corn surrounds you on all sides of the grocery store, right?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because of farm subsidies.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's in processed foods, it's in cleaning supplies, it's in personal care products, you know, it's in perfumes, like it's it's everywhere.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And what are most certified gluten-free processed foods made of?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Usually corn or rice, right?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not actually gluten-free.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is a label that even duped me when I was in my healing journey, which is why I'm so passionate about this, you know, supposed gluten-free label, is because many of us are being duped by this label.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: We go in there and it says certified gluten-free.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we think that's safe for us to eat, but it is not truly gluten-free.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's what we call traditional gluten-free.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not truly, truly gluten-free.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is one reason why I actually, it took me longer to heal from the diseases that I had, because I didn't know that corn and rice contained gluten.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so I didn't know I was eating it in these certified gluten-free foods.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And now we see this pattern in the scientific literature as well that if you just go on the traditional gluten-free diet, which is no wheat, barley, or rye, it routinely fails to heal the gastrointestinal lining.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this is in people with celiac disease, gluten sensitivity, and people who don't even have those conditions.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So in 2009, for example, there's an article published in Alimentary Pharmacology and Therapeutics.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: This article concluded that after 16 months, okay, over a year, 16 months of these subjects consuming a traditional gluten-free diet, so no wheat, barley, or rye, only 8% of the people healed their gastrointestinal lining.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: 65% of the people had persistent inflammation, 26% saw no change, and 1% even got worse.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is what the authors concluded.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Quote, complete normalization of dual denal lesions is exceptionally rare in adult celiac patients despite adherence to a traditional gluten-free diet.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, the traditional gluten-free diet failed to help 92% of the people.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, contrast that to in 2013, there was a study in BMC gastroenterology, and it specifically focused on patients who had previously followed a traditional gluten-free diet and did not get relief from any of their symptoms.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they had already tried the traditional removing wheat, barley, and rye.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: They took those subjects and they put them on a diet of whole unprocessed foods, including including no gluten-free processed foods.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they removed all the grains essentially.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: 82, including resolution of prior celiac um enteropathy.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So damage to the gastrointestinal tract.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: 82% of them healed when they removed it.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now I think so.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think what you're what and and as far as this thinking is still within the the halls of power today, is that right?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely right.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, isn't it funny that these uh these experts and scientists um uh make fun of old, you know, they we have this saying, old wives' tale, oh that's an old wives' tale.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, our best experts and scientists are basically using an old wives' tale, a World War II Netherlands uh um uh non-comprehensive uh uh non-scientific inquiry to base the entire labeling procedure on.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's um it's uh it's uh it's unbelievable.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, it gets even worse because as I dug into the literature, Joel, I realized that we have actually known since 1979.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we've known since 1979 that corn can affect people with celiac disease and irritable bowel syndrome.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a study published in the Clinical Experimental Immunology that reported that when people with Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, and celiac disease, that they ate corn and they would have elevated antibodies.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the authors concluded that an increase in antibodies suggested, quote, increased mucosal permeability, which is another name for leaky gut.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we've known that corn is causing this problem since the 19 since 1979.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And now we have additional studies from 1991, 2005, 2012, for instance, that have also verified this that there is an inflammatory response followed by consuming corn.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: So following corn exposure.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now we there's still, like I said in the first podcast, there's a lot we still don't know.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we're just piecing things together here.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So for instance, do people with celiacs or gluten sensitivity always react to the glutins in corn and rice?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we don't know for sure.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: We know that in 2005, there was a study published in gut.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Those subjects showed that 50% of them developed detectable levels of gastrointestinal inflammation and antibodies to corn.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know the exact number.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably higher than 50% because of two things.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: One, the studies I just cited to you that people did not heal their gastrointestinal tract when they were consuming um corn.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also these populations that get so severely damaged in their gastrointestinal lining, they have an impaired ability usually to make the antibodies in the first place.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the marker that a lot of these studies are using to determine if they're reacting to gluten.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you can't adequately make it, the marker's not going to show up on the test.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: But but the point here is that gluten sensitivity is much more common than we even realize.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, there's estimates that it's at least 30% of the population, and that number keeps growing as we're learning more.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: The current gluten-free label does not support a true gluten-free lifestyle, which would be removing all forms of glutens, basically all grains.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: It instead adds to the confusion by supporting a traditional gluten-free diet.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: We know that the FDA is unwilling to change that definition at this point.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we but and we do know that this gluten-free label is one reason why, you know, I started this podcast by saying some people don't experience improvements when they go gluten-free.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes some people experience improvements and then they get worse again and they think it's not gluten.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, what happens is when you just remove, well, a couple things happen.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: One possibility is when you're going um traditional gluten-free, you're trusting that gluten-free label and you're only removing wheat, barley, and rye.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes some people are still reacting to the glutins in the other grains, right?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the rice and the corn, quinoa, and whatnot.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not going to get any relief from symptoms.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, sometimes you will experience what's actually called gluten-free whiplash.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is so common, there's actually a term for it, gluten-free whiplash.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that occurs when the traditional forms of gluten are removed, and you then there's initially improvements, and then a short time later, symptoms return.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is further evidence that all grains contain gluten.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right, because you got a break from the wheat, barley, and the rye.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And again, if you remember from the chart, those contain high levels of gluten protein compared to like a rice or a corn.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you got a break from the high level containing foods of gluten, and then um your body is now reacting to, for instance, the corn and the rice that has a lower level of gluten.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's a gluten-free whiplash.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's another, it's we talk about these nuances, right?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: You have to really be a detective when you're trying to figure out what is happening in your body that might be causing symptoms.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that those are two big pitfalls that are directly tied to this kind of gluten-free farce of a label.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you know, when you put that, when you put that chart up for us to see, I was struck by uh the fact that wheat, which is way up there on the top, it's the worst at whatever it was, like 65 to 69 percent uh gluten.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: But corn, corn was down there, was was at 55%, yeah, if I remember correctly.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that was higher than almost everything else.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so so the very the very idea, I mean, um yeah, we've we've certainly uh cast disparagements on our government uh orthodoxy in the past, and boy, this is a time to really um cast a big one to realize that the FDA created a label and still today is putting labels on corn products, calling them gluten-free when they're only a few percentage points lower than wheat, is um it's it's unconscionable.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Not only is it unscientific, it's unconscionable.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the fact that so many organizations and medical doctors rely on that label.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll have you know, gastroenterologists that will tell you, oh, okay, you have celiacs, go in the grocery store and look for the certified gluten-free label.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can eat those foods, those foods are safe, right?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you'll have celiac organizations that are saying you can go eat these foods, like trusted, quote unquote, trusted, because I don't trust them.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, the general population probably trusts these organizations, and they're all advising them.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: You have um dietitians that will tell them, go eat this gluten-free label.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is quote unquote safe for you to eat.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was told that I saw so many gastroenterologists because I had GI issues, you know, like praise God, he gave me those that symptom.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and they did like biopsies.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I had one that did a biopsy of a gastrointestinal tract, and they saw no atrophy.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Even though I was not digesting and absorbing nutrients, as you know, I had 15 nutrient deficiencies.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was undiagnosed.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the he looked at the one test result, in spite of all my symptoms, all the conditions that I was experiencing.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: That one test result, he said, Oh, you don't have any problems with with gluten.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead and go eat gluten.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, are you kidding me?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and so I trusted this, you know, I trusted the gluten-free label.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I trusted that doctor for a little while, and it got me sicker.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I am passionate about bringing shedding some light on this label because it's it's duped so many of us and it continues to dupe so many of us.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I see organizations all the time, and I see people who have like cooking channels and they're promoting a gluten-free lifestyle, and they all include corn and rice in their cookings, all the ones that I've seen.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's the traditional gluten-free.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when it's the when it's the masses, and I'm over here on the side, like on my little remote island, saying, no, no, we even have this back from the 70s that this can be a problem, you know.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Then like I I'm the one that gets the hate mail for, you know, for trying to wave the flag and be like, you know, hey, I'm not telling you not to eat it, but look at the data.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: We have ample data to show that this label is misleading and it's making a lot of us sick.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if there's any if there's anything worse than um whatever, than than than having a food that makes you sick, it is trying to um anything worse than than than getting sick from a food, it is thinking that the alternative food will make you well and it makes you sicker.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that that's like that's like the ultimate bait and switch.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and it's um it yeah, uh all I can say is it's it's unconscionable and it's uh it's ridiculous.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: But uh it shows how how entrenched uh you know uh how entrenched what once things get uh entrenched within that bureaucracy, it's almost impossible to um you know you know to get through the bureaucracy, whether it's you know mandatory pasteurization of milk, whether it's you know um uh a jab a jab will keep you well.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's there's you know, there's all sorts of of um well, this is the orthodoxy, right?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is the orthodoxy, and that's why that's why you have to go beyond labels.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, I went so far beyond that label, I don't even consider that label exists anymore because it's it's a lie.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me, that label is a lie.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't trust it, I don't rely on it whatsoever.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so so let's talk a little about solutions.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have tried a traditional gluten-free diet, right, removing just the wheat, barley, and rye, and you still haven't been able to heal, the first thing I would do is start checking the ingredient labels.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Check your labels for gluten-containing compounds.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mentioned a few um corn-derived chemicals in the previous podcast.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can tell by that list, it's very difficult to identify corn-derived ingredients.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: But um, now you can search it online, type in a chemical compound you're not familiar with.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there's organizations now, like corn-free organizations that can tell you if it's corn-derived.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I want to I also want to say that if you are experiencing a problem, an issue with gluten, glutins or grains, we do have evidence now that if you consume one bite of a food that contains gluten, it can inflame some people for up to two months.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it only takes a very small quantity to inflame you and to keep you inflamed.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why it's so important to not even eat the grain derivatives, the grain-derived chemicals, like the cellulose that might be in the shredded cheese, for instance, you know, um, or the anti-caking corn-derived ingredient that's in Morton's table salt.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's very important to get all those out because a tiny little amount can trigger the inflammatory cascade.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: So read the labels, don't rely on the group for label, read the ingredients on the label.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, opt, you can opt out, which is what I did, by choosing whole foods that are naturally gluten-free, like meats that are 100% grass-fed, grass-finished, pasture raised, um chickens, um and eggs, wild-caught fish, fruit, um, vegetables, as long as you know you're not eating the rice and the corn, of course.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I just choose to opt out and not eat any of them.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you also want to make sure that you're cognizant of what you're putting, not only in your mouth, but on your body and in your house.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I mentioned this before.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Check the labels of the personal care products, cleaning supplies, other items that you might not think about, like glue on the back of the stamps, right?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Those often contain a corn derivative, an envelope.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people will lick the envelope close.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Don't lick your envelopes.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Those often contain grain derivatives in there.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like I mentioned, toothpaste usually contains at least one grain-derived ingredient, deodorants can.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the list goes on and on.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: You see, you've got to go methodically through your refrigerator, your freezer, your pantry, your medicine cabinet, your cleaning supplies, everything to get it all out.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the good news you can still have your cake, right?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there are lots of great recipes down.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I even have some on a website uh for brownies, cookies, cakes, breads, crackers, you name it, that are truly grain free.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you can still eat all the yummy, delicious foods that you want to eat.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you just don't use the grain, um, the grains, you just use natural um um um alternatives, you know, non-grain-based flour alternatives.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: My favorite flour is actually tiger nut flour, because it's uh it's a healthier flour than like an arrowroot, for instance, um, or a tapioca flour.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a um, it's actually not a nut, it's actually a root vegetable and it's a prebiotic.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a it's a healthier flour to actually cook with.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: But there's lots of different, um, lots of different flowers.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I just thought of this now.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we put out bonus videos sometimes.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: If anybody wants me to do a bonus video of like baking truly grain-free, then send us over an email and I can work on getting some you know grain-free baking videos up there because then you'll know it's truly grain-free.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh wow, that's uh that's great.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: That that's great advice and a great um a great stopping point.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Are are you have we missed anything on this?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or are we gonna are we gonna put gluten to bed here for a little while?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um ready.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Are we glutened out for now?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've been glutenized, man.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I am ready to like I said, I've I've been anxious about this for two years.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm done.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm gonna sleep well tonight.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um feel free to send in your questions, but I we've covered a lot.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: And again, let's just conclude too with we're not anti-grain.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're not.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're just trying to help people who are sick, who are having symptoms, they can't resolve them.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just sharing my experience and what exists in the currently in the scientific literature.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think too, it's important to realize that just like we say, um uh factory farm chicken isn't the same as pasture chicken, we've got to understand that today's wheat is not yesterday's wheat.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um that to me, that's one of the biggest takeaways.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: So when we uh so I mean, uh people uh uh come up, I mean, within the industry, obviously, people come up to me and say, Well, well, it doesn't make any difference.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, milk is milk, chicken's chicken, and egg is an egg.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I can tell you, you know, there you you can study it uh empirically, you can measure the nutrient ratios, uh, you can uh see it.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and and if uh for for for those of you listening to this, for example, who uh who have true uh grass or this is man, this is different.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Just imagine if you could uh see that same difference uh in today's uh wheat uh versus uh wheat in 1700.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Just imagine if you could see that kind of difference.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is uh you know, we can't see much of those differences because it's it's not it's it's just not grown anymore.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's very difficult to get.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there are a couple of uh uh small outfits around, I think, that are trying to maintain some of those ancient uh ancient varieties and and stone grind, you know, and and and do that, but it's it's very, very difficult.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: So uh in general, um it's easier just to maybe this is maybe this a little bit out of convenience that that instead of trying to find something that would be uh um let's just say fifth 1500, the year 1500 consistent, um it's easier just to cut it out for the time being and and go with something that hasn't been uh um adulterated uh to that extent.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and then we you know we we go on from there.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'd say, and if you if you want to eat your grains, eat your grains, you know.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not telling you not to eat it.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: If it if I was gonna start eating grains again, I would at least you know uh sprout them.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have a uh like I would ferment it, eat it like sourdough, you know, because all those things are gonna help um pre-digest it and help reduce the the glute the gluten load in it.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, make sure it wasn't sprayed, right?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's all that's all great advice.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Cena, for digging down into this for us.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a very um enlightening and sobering um uh uh look at it, but um you've you've uh broken it out very well, I think, and and we can and all of us can uh can take it and and run with it now at this point.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for that.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you everyone for joining us on another Beyond Labels podcast.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: We look forward to visiting with you again next week.