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57. Evelyn Nesbitt - The First Supermodel · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

0:00
Speaker 1: You're listening to an airwave media podcast.
0:05
Speaker 2: Hi everybody, I'm welcome to HERD.
0:18
Speaker 1: What now the history podcast that's not your history class?
0:22
Speaker 1: Wouldn't be your host? Katie Charlewood, history Harlotte and reader
0:26
Speaker 1: of books. My oh my, how time does fly? Oh Katie,
0:32
Speaker 1: this episode's a couple of days late. Yep, Yeah, there's
0:36
Speaker 1: there's a reason for that. And it is all It's
0:39
Speaker 1: all my fault. It is all my fault. I have
0:43
Speaker 1: no one to blame but myself and my cousins. So
0:48
Speaker 1: they're not gonna listen to this because they don't care,
0:50
Speaker 1: and also because my cousin Kimberly, whose birthday it was.
0:55
Speaker 1: She doesn't like things that are real. She only follows
0:58
Speaker 1: me on TikTok to like boost me through the algorithm.
1:02
Speaker 1: Like she doesn't like real things. She doesn't like documentaries
1:07
Speaker 1: or reality stuff. She's okay when she knows the reality
1:10
Speaker 1: is absolutely fucking fake, but she's just not interested in it.
1:15
Speaker 1: She likes to watch things that are escapism and fantasy
1:18
Speaker 1: and all that, you know, a heightened reality if you will,
1:25
Speaker 1: But she doesn't like anything that's real. So she will
1:27
Speaker 1: never listen to this, and she'll tell people she doesn't.
1:32
Speaker 1: She'll tell it's great, but it's that she doesn't. She
1:35
Speaker 1: doesn't give a fuck. So I mean, she wants me
1:38
Speaker 1: to do well, but she's not gonna listen to this.
1:40
Speaker 1: So it was her fourtiethh birthday and her husband surprised
1:46
Speaker 1: her with a trip to go away. So she flew
1:49
Speaker 1: from England to go away, and well, my cousins they
1:54
Speaker 1: flew from Scotland, and then I traveled down on a
1:58
Speaker 1: five hour bus journey there and then a five of
2:02
Speaker 1: us Johnny back again. I swear to it was by
2:07
Speaker 1: the old gods, and then new it was so fucking
2:10
Speaker 1: long and I was so tired, and then on the
2:13
Speaker 1: way back up, I was so hungover. See my cousins
2:18
Speaker 1: drink like I over shrugby playls and I cannot keep
2:21
Speaker 1: up with that. And we were playing this drinking game
2:25
Speaker 1: called King's Cup, which if you know it, yeay if
2:28
Speaker 1: you don't giggle it up. But there's this bit where
2:34
Speaker 1: if someone is holding a queen card and they ask
2:38
Speaker 1: you a question and you answer it, you have to drink.
2:41
Speaker 1: And I am really bad because I have an auditory
2:45
Speaker 1: processing issue which is part of the ADHD. So if
2:50
Speaker 1: I don't hear something or think I've misheard, I'll respond.
2:56
Speaker 1: And also I forget things really quickly. So, needless to say,
3:03
Speaker 1: my cousin's husband became my nemesis because he kept catching
3:07
Speaker 1: me out and I was like, every opportunity I could
3:09
Speaker 1: to just fuck him over, I did. It was so
3:11
Speaker 1: much fun, and my cousins were so mean to each other.
3:16
Speaker 1: It's great. It was a good time.
3:19
Speaker 2: Ah.
3:19
Speaker 1: Yes, but yeah and and yes. So I came back
3:26
Speaker 1: on Monday. I traveled down on Saturday after work. I
3:29
Speaker 1: came back on Monday, and I I could not record.
3:35
Speaker 1: I couldn't find my previous recording. I have been on
3:39
Speaker 1: two cebarate computers. I can't find it. It's not in
3:44
Speaker 1: my emails or my like online storage which I've forgotten
3:50
Speaker 1: the name of. There's a there's a word for the cloud.
3:54
Speaker 1: It's not in my cloud. I can't find any It's fine.
3:58
Speaker 1: I'll get over it. But it's annoying. And yeah, oh,
4:04
Speaker 1: so many beautiful, beautiful cocktails and going as I'm saying, delicious, beautiful.
4:11
Speaker 1: But my lover, my purse, weet lover, don't drink. It's
4:16
Speaker 1: bad for you, or you know, drink if you want,
4:17
Speaker 1: but drink responsibly. I did not think. Yeah, I was
4:25
Speaker 1: just I was just fucked and hence why this is
4:30
Speaker 1: a late episode. Sorry, I'm sorry, I really am. But
4:35
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, I'll be honest with you. I
4:37
Speaker 1: could have made up something, but no, I was. I
4:41
Speaker 1: was hungover. And then I had every intention of recording
4:45
Speaker 1: like this week, but every night when I came in,
4:48
Speaker 1: I was so exhausted. Then we've had these really bad
4:53
Speaker 1: storms and like I couldn't like feasibly keep the electrics
4:57
Speaker 1: plugged in with these storms, and which is convenient because
5:02
Speaker 1: again I was so fucking exhausted that I just wasn't
5:04
Speaker 1: really up for doing it anyway. But yeah, and here
5:08
Speaker 1: we are today doing this. But I know what you're thinking.
5:12
Speaker 1: You're thinking, quit your gibber jabber in fact me, in
5:15
Speaker 1: fact you, I will. But first we've got to get
5:19
Speaker 1: our source on. Our sources are The Girl on the
5:24
Speaker 1: Velvet Swing, Sex, Murder, and Madness at the Dawn of
5:28
Speaker 1: the Twentieth Century by Simon Batts, Front Page Girls, Women
5:38
Speaker 1: Journalists in American Culture and Fiction eighteen eighty to nineteen
5:41
Speaker 1: thirty by Jean Marie Lutz. The Story of My Life
5:50
Speaker 1: by Evelyn Nesbit Prodigal Days the Untold Story of Evelyn Nesbit.
6:02
Speaker 1: These are both by Evelyn Nesbit, American eve Evelyn Nesbit
6:11
Speaker 1: Stanford White, The Birth of the Eat Girl and the
6:15
Speaker 1: Crime of the Century by Paula Uberu, whose name I
6:20
Speaker 1: hope I have not fucking butchered. Okay, also Incomfortably Good.
6:29
Speaker 1: Then let's begin. Actually, no, let's not begin, because I
6:33
Speaker 1: have one more thing to say and complain about. Actually, so,
6:38
Speaker 1: on one of my old videos on tik talk, somebody
6:42
Speaker 1: complained about my voice. Ah, my voice, and they said
6:48
Speaker 1: it was annoying. First of all, how very dare they?
6:55
Speaker 1: I am a fucking delight. Second of all, this voice.
7:02
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Like, you can say whatever you want, but
7:05
Speaker 1: this is a beautiful voice, Like I know. It is
7:09
Speaker 1: one of the few features I have that I'm actually
7:15
Speaker 1: really proud of.
7:18
Speaker 2: This.
7:18
Speaker 1: And the TETs obviously like great voice grade tests want more.
7:21
Speaker 1: You need not a lot too, clearly, a great voice
7:27
Speaker 1: and a fill someome pair of fun bags. Nothing else
7:29
Speaker 1: in this world I'll coast through now. But yeah, it
7:33
Speaker 1: was just such a strange thing because it has been
7:36
Speaker 1: requested many times. I might add that I do ASMR
7:44
Speaker 1: and uh audio porn so I mean really, really really
7:51
Speaker 1: trying to denounce my voice, no fools, But anyway, we
7:57
Speaker 1: should actually get started. We I should actually get started
8:00
Speaker 1: because I'm going to talk about Evelyn Nesbit, the act girl,
8:07
Speaker 1: the Gibson Girl, the first supermodel, and she has some
8:13
Speaker 1: very normal basic beginnings and then things go south pretty
8:22
Speaker 1: fast and leads to the crime of the Century ba
8:27
Speaker 1: ba dramatic. Yeah, so I guess we start from the beginning.
8:34
Speaker 1: Florence Evelyn Nesbit was born on Christmas Day, either eighteen
8:39
Speaker 1: eighty four or eighteen eighty five in Pennsylvania, in this
8:45
Speaker 1: like small town near Pittsburgh. So we don't actually know
8:50
Speaker 1: whether she was born in eighty four or eighty five.
8:53
Speaker 1: I mean, we do have a one year like idea.
8:58
Speaker 1: The only issue is all of her like documents were
9:03
Speaker 1: destroyed in a fire, and because of child labor laws
9:09
Speaker 1: like her, they fudge the numbers a wee bit. So
9:12
Speaker 1: she's either a way bit older or she's a wee
9:14
Speaker 1: bit younger because her mum would just add a couple
9:17
Speaker 1: of years on to her age so she could get work.
9:21
Speaker 1: But that's I'm getting ahead of myself, getting ahead of myself.
9:26
Speaker 1: Florence Evelyn Nesbit was born on December twenty fifth, Christmas Day,
9:32
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty four, eighteen eighty five. Hey, one of those
9:36
Speaker 1: to Winfield Scott Nesbit and his wife Evelyn Florence. Now
9:44
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's the most unimaginative of names, but
9:51
Speaker 1: I mean, I do appreciate that she didn't just call
9:53
Speaker 1: her Florence Evelyn, or she didn't call her Evelyn Florence. See,
9:58
Speaker 1: I'm even confusing myself now because it's the same. Her
10:00
Speaker 1: name is just fucking reversed. But cool now that I
10:04
Speaker 1: can say much. But yeah, So her father, Winfield, he
10:13
Speaker 1: is an attorney. He's a lawyer, a solicitor. So he worked,
10:18
Speaker 1: and his wife didn't. Well, she didn't have a job, job,
10:22
Speaker 1: official employment, no, because she was a homemaker. Like her
10:28
Speaker 1: pole point was to stay home and raise her children
10:31
Speaker 1: and do the house and all that kind of stuff,
10:33
Speaker 1: because her man was out there supporting their family. So Evelyn,
10:41
Speaker 1: she has a younger brother, Howard, who I think is
10:46
Speaker 1: like he's a few years younger than her. I'm not
10:49
Speaker 1: sure when he was born, but he's a few years
10:51
Speaker 1: younger than her. And throughout her childhood, I mean, she's
10:55
Speaker 1: such a daddy's girl. She's such a daddy's girl, and
11:00
Speaker 1: her dad he fucking dotes on her, He adores her,
11:04
Speaker 1: he encourages her, so he he gets her to read,
11:09
Speaker 1: you know, she's reading like fantasy and fairy tales and
11:12
Speaker 1: folklore and other things beginning with f and you know,
11:18
Speaker 1: stories that were more like geared towards boys, like the
11:21
Speaker 1: pluck and luck, like I'm plucky and lucky. I got
11:23
Speaker 1: Gusto and I'm gonna go out there and do kill
11:25
Speaker 1: things like those stuff. And he builds her this like
11:29
Speaker 1: little library, you know, to keep encouraging her to learn.
11:34
Speaker 1: And when she's interested in like music and dancing, he
11:38
Speaker 1: sets her up to go for lessons like he is
11:41
Speaker 1: very much like giving her everything. Unfortunately, this is a
11:48
Speaker 1: woman in history. This is a woman from the past
11:52
Speaker 1: that we know about. How if you've been listening to
11:57
Speaker 1: me for any amount of time and or you know
12:01
Speaker 1: anything about history, you would know generally things don't go
12:07
Speaker 1: well for women. And this is no exception. You see,
12:12
Speaker 1: when everyone is ten or eleven, maybe her father dies unexpectedly.
12:23
Speaker 1: So there's missus nesbit, the two kids, no income and
12:30
Speaker 1: their breadwinner's gone. The person who supports them is gone,
12:34
Speaker 1: like the lunchpin gone, and well things just get bad
12:43
Speaker 1: to worse. So they well they fucking write a money,
12:49
Speaker 1: don't they. They're broke as fuck. So the families, Yeah,
12:57
Speaker 1: they're penniless and they lose their whole home and they
13:00
Speaker 1: have to like auction off all their possessions like a
13:04
Speaker 1: dickensie and fucking drama, you know, just so they have
13:08
Speaker 1: to pay off all the familial debts and you know,
13:11
Speaker 1: so they don't die, and they end up kind of
13:16
Speaker 1: they go a bit nomadic. They go from place to place,
13:20
Speaker 1: partially because you know, they're relying on the kindness of strangers,
13:24
Speaker 1: and partially because they're like consistently outrunning debt, because it
13:30
Speaker 1: is following them like a shadow. And the only skill
13:37
Speaker 1: that missus Nesbit has is dressmaking. She's a seamstress. And
13:43
Speaker 1: you know, I mean this was very much a good
13:46
Speaker 1: skill for her to have at that time because you know,
13:51
Speaker 1: many women made their own clothes. It was a very
13:54
Speaker 1: you know, womanly, feminine thing to do. It was expected.
13:59
Speaker 1: It's the fucking teen hundreds, of course, but she is
14:04
Speaker 1: struggling to get work and they're basically having to stay
14:12
Speaker 1: all together in one bedroom in a boarding house, and
14:16
Speaker 1: even then sometimes they couldn't afford that, so Howard, her
14:20
Speaker 1: younger brother, he would be sent away to live with relatives.
14:24
Speaker 1: And it got to the point that missus Nesbit, the
14:29
Speaker 1: widow Nextbit, if you will, she ended up somehow acquiring money,
14:35
Speaker 1: not sure where it came from, maybe friends, maybe relatives, whomever,
14:41
Speaker 1: to set her up without her own boarding house, so
14:44
Speaker 1: you know, people could board with her and she could
14:46
Speaker 1: gain some sort of income from that. Unfortunately, missus Nesbit
14:54
Speaker 1: was not very good at this. I mean she was
14:55
Speaker 1: pretty shitty running a boarding house. Like she would actually
14:58
Speaker 1: send her you know, young daughter, her teenage daughter. Was
15:03
Speaker 1: she even a teenager at this point? Was she only twelve?
15:07
Speaker 1: Like she was young enough anyway, and she would send
15:09
Speaker 1: her around to you know, collect the rent from the borders. Yeah,
15:15
Speaker 1: she was with twelve, and it was it's like, why
15:22
Speaker 1: the fuck would you send your child? These people probably
15:25
Speaker 1: ain't gonna pay her, and a lot of the times
15:28
Speaker 1: they didn't like missus Nesbit found it really fucking hard
15:31
Speaker 1: to ask for the rent, and then she just got
15:35
Speaker 1: fucked over. And in the end that just fell through,
15:39
Speaker 1: like it just it just didn't work, Like she couldn't
15:42
Speaker 1: run it, and you know, because she couldn't even ask
15:45
Speaker 1: for the money that was due, which you know, I'm
15:49
Speaker 1: not the most business minded person, but that seems to
15:52
Speaker 1: me like a fatal flaw in any kind of plan. Anyway,
16:01
Speaker 1: things get so bad that missus Nesbit just gets the
16:08
Speaker 1: fuck at Dodge and moves to Philadelphia in mateen ninety eight. Yes, yes,
16:15
Speaker 1: eighteen ninety eight. I was right the first time, and
16:17
Speaker 1: they went, it's so good, you know. She moves there
16:20
Speaker 1: to try and get worked. She tries to get work
16:23
Speaker 1: as you know, a seamstress. She had pass out there
16:27
Speaker 1: who were like, you know, this might be a good
16:28
Speaker 1: opportunity for you. So everyone and Howard they get sent
16:32
Speaker 1: to an aunt and then they get sent to someone
16:36
Speaker 1: else and then basically they get passed from power to post.
16:41
Speaker 1: While missus Nesbit is looking for work. She tries to
16:45
Speaker 1: get work as a seamstress, and she ends up in
16:48
Speaker 1: this department store as a sales clerk, but like for fabric,
16:53
Speaker 1: because she knows her shit, you know, And when she
16:57
Speaker 1: gets a job there, she gets both of her kids
17:00
Speaker 1: jobs there. So you've got what a twelve year old
17:04
Speaker 1: and a fourteen year old working what twelve our days,
17:10
Speaker 1: yay child labor laws. And they're working long fucking hours
17:16
Speaker 1: and it's not easy and it's just enough to keep
17:21
Speaker 1: them above the bed line. It is there at this
17:25
Speaker 1: department store. I think it's Wanna Maker's that young Evelyn
17:30
Speaker 1: is discovered by this artist. He sees her and he's
17:34
Speaker 1: like wow, because she is beautiful to him. She very
17:41
Speaker 1: much looks like how you're supposed to look in that era.
17:45
Speaker 1: You know, she has this dark hair and beautiful eyes
17:49
Speaker 1: and she just hmmm, and this artist wants to paint her,
17:59
Speaker 1: and her mom agrees, after you know, checking out. This
18:05
Speaker 1: artist was a woman and not some creepy old dude
18:07
Speaker 1: trying to you know, get her daughter on the NEP
18:11
Speaker 1: and Everylyn she sits for this artist for like five hours,
18:18
Speaker 1: and she earns one whole dollar, which I think is
18:23
Speaker 1: like thirty dollars in today's money. She's probably you know,
18:31
Speaker 1: I mean it's good for her because now she's not
18:34
Speaker 1: starving or having to work for twelve hours. I mean,
18:38
Speaker 1: sitting for five hours does seem like less, you know,
18:43
Speaker 1: bad than having to work a stockroom for twelve just
18:48
Speaker 1: putting out there. So through this woman, this female artist
18:54
Speaker 1: she gets introduced to these other artists in Philadelphia, and
19:00
Speaker 1: I mean they're I mean, these are the big wigs.
19:03
Speaker 1: They are well known, they have some renowned and they're
19:07
Speaker 1: not creepy fucking bastards, you know what I mean. They're
19:10
Speaker 1: all pretty reputable people, reputable people, I can say words.
19:17
Speaker 1: So she's hanging out in this circle and things are
19:20
Speaker 1: going well for her.
19:23
Speaker 2: She is.
19:25
Speaker 1: Discovering that she can make far more money as this
19:31
Speaker 1: artist models than she could working at the department store.
19:36
Speaker 1: And then she fucking harasses her mother until she lets
19:39
Speaker 1: her quit and become a model full time. And now
19:43
Speaker 1: she's only about fourteen fifteen at this point, like she's young.
19:53
Speaker 1: Some point during this her mom leaves Evelyn and her
19:58
Speaker 1: brother Howard in the care of someone friends, relatives whom's
20:04
Speaker 1: to say, and she again gets the heck at a
20:08
Speaker 1: dodge and she relocates to New York City. Like her
20:14
Speaker 1: plan was either to be a seamstress or to be
20:17
Speaker 1: a clothing designer, because at this point she's like, I
20:19
Speaker 1: could be a clothing designer maybe. Unfortunately, she does not
20:25
Speaker 1: do well either as a clothing designer or as a seamstress.
20:32
Speaker 1: Like things are just things are just not going well.
20:39
Speaker 1: Eventually she thinks, hmmm, I'm gonna get my family here
20:45
Speaker 1: because maybe I can get Evelyn to bring some money in.
20:54
Speaker 1: So she sends for her family in nineteen hundred and
20:58
Speaker 1: the two kids come to her and they share this
21:01
Speaker 1: tiny backroom in a building on twenty second Street in Manhattan,
21:08
Speaker 1: so at least they're in Manhattan, so they're in the
21:10
Speaker 1: good area. Maybe not a good building, but in a
21:13
Speaker 1: good area. And when everyone finally makes it to New York,
21:16
Speaker 1: she has letters of recommendation, you know, from all these
21:19
Speaker 1: Philadelphia artists, and she gets connected to what is it,
21:23
Speaker 1: the Art Students League, and like John Jacob astor Frederick S.
21:30
Speaker 1: Church and just like all of these like proper legitimate artists.
21:34
Speaker 1: Again not creepy fucking bastards salivating it her behind a curtain.
21:40
Speaker 1: Oh no, these are proper artists. And her mom ends
21:45
Speaker 1: up having to like be her manager, and again does
21:49
Speaker 1: not have the business acumen for any of this shit.
21:52
Speaker 1: So she is not really good at taking care of
21:57
Speaker 1: her or you know, parenting stuff or business stuff. Not
22:05
Speaker 1: really super great at either of those. Needs to take
22:08
Speaker 1: a wee course or something. She even like says that
22:15
Speaker 1: that she made sure that her daughter's reputation was protected,
22:19
Speaker 1: you know, basically stating that she never like was in
22:22
Speaker 1: the NEP and then nude, you know, and we know
22:26
Speaker 1: that is not correct because we have images of her
22:31
Speaker 1: ted site. Just ted see that they're there. It's happening.
22:36
Speaker 1: I used to be an artist model actually at one point,
22:38
Speaker 1: so there are pictures of me somewhere in the NEP
22:43
Speaker 1: at eighteen years old. I mean, I look very young.
22:47
Speaker 1: It's like kind of creepy. I actually had artists who
22:50
Speaker 1: and photographers who refuse to work with me, even though
22:53
Speaker 1: I had like proof of ID because I looked too young,
22:57
Speaker 1: and because I was like really skinny and practically flat
22:59
Speaker 1: chests at the time. They just feel uncomfortable working with
23:04
Speaker 1: me because it felt a wee bit, you know, Peter feelick.
23:07
Speaker 1: And much respect to those dudes, by the way, you're cool,
23:11
Speaker 1: but it was just kind of a funny back to this,
23:16
Speaker 1: tests out, tests out maybe one day, I'll tell you.
23:20
Speaker 1: By the time, I was hanging upside down naked form
23:21
Speaker 1: a trapeze. AnyWho. There she is skimpily clad, scantily clad,
23:29
Speaker 1: we bit naked, we bit nippy, definitely TETs out and
23:36
Speaker 1: she is well, doing this at what fourteen fifteen years old,
23:42
Speaker 1: like she is very very young, like maybe sixteen, but
23:50
Speaker 1: still very fucking young to be doing this. So everyone
23:57
Speaker 1: becomes like the artists model. She is the person they want.
24:03
Speaker 1: So photographers and artists they want her. Like if you
24:10
Speaker 1: look at a picture of everyone Nesbit, you will go,
24:13
Speaker 1: I recognize her because she is very much the Gibson girl.
24:18
Speaker 1: She has her hair sort of half up and half down.
24:20
Speaker 1: It's long and dark like it's and the thing is
24:26
Speaker 1: as well. Once a woman reached a certain age during
24:30
Speaker 1: this time period, she was expected to wear her hair up.
24:34
Speaker 1: Wearing your hair down was what girls did. So by
24:40
Speaker 1: her having her hair down, like she's very much showing
24:45
Speaker 1: that she's not like an adult grown woman. But yeah,
24:50
Speaker 1: she is doing so fucking well. She is everywhere. She's
24:54
Speaker 1: in Vanity Fair, She's in Ladies Home Journal, Cosmopolitan, Harper's
25:00
Speaker 1: fucking Bizarre people. She's everywhere. She is on like pocket
25:07
Speaker 1: mirrors and postcards and like little tobacco cards which were
25:11
Speaker 1: like these little pictures you had inside well, like the
25:15
Speaker 1: cigarette boxes or tobacco pouches or you know those stuff.
25:19
Speaker 1: She was and like she'd be in like different like
25:22
Speaker 1: outfits and costumes and poses and these like postcards are
25:30
Speaker 1: they're called mignon, which basically means sweet or nice or lovely,
25:36
Speaker 1: you know that kind of way. So she would be
25:38
Speaker 1: like this sweet like ongeniue posing, which was very different
25:45
Speaker 1: to like the French postcards, which were just dirty porn.
25:51
Speaker 1: French postcards were porn like. They were very much again
25:54
Speaker 1: tits out and very very six ahead or very overtly sexy,
26:01
Speaker 1: shick shit gonna shan conra really But although I think
26:07
Speaker 1: this is somebody's kink because she looks sweet and adorable
26:10
Speaker 1: and some people are really really into that, like that
26:13
Speaker 1: is there like butter and jam, you know, and so yeah,
26:20
Speaker 1: it's it's she's not gratuitous. She's cute and adorable, and
26:25
Speaker 1: that is very much somebody's thing. That still feels like
26:27
Speaker 1: a fetish thing to me, but that's my own personal opinion.
26:32
Speaker 1: So yeah, she is in calendars for fucking Coca Cola
26:37
Speaker 1: and Prudential Life. I mean she is God, she's a
26:44
Speaker 1: Gibson girl. She's the Gibs and girl like it's she's
26:47
Speaker 1: in fashion photography. She's she gets so much work. She
26:58
Speaker 1: liked being you know, like a live model. She liked
27:02
Speaker 1: being photographed because it's so much easier, like having your
27:07
Speaker 1: photo taken, like posing, than having to be an artist
27:10
Speaker 1: model where you're being painted and you're gonna hold your possession.
27:13
Speaker 1: And she just can't be fucked with it. She doesn't
27:15
Speaker 1: want to do it. She's like, nah, I don't want
27:17
Speaker 1: to do that. She says, fuck this for Game of Soldiers,
27:21
Speaker 1: I want to do this. And she makes so much
27:24
Speaker 1: more money because for like a half day shoot, she
27:26
Speaker 1: earns five bucks, in the full day, she earns ten,
27:30
Speaker 1: which is like over three hundred dollars per day now
27:37
Speaker 1: and like today's money, and the money she makes from
27:42
Speaker 1: modeling is more than the money that like her family
27:46
Speaker 1: had made as a collective altogether when they worked at
27:51
Speaker 1: the department store, like she was supporting her entire family. Unfortunately,
28:00
Speaker 1: they live in fucking Manhattan. They're in New York. It's expensive,
28:06
Speaker 1: like cost eleven mates, it's not it's not easy, so
28:11
Speaker 1: you know, it's it swings and roundabouts easy. But she
28:15
Speaker 1: wants to make more money. And also she's getting really
28:18
Speaker 1: bored of to stand in there posing. And as you remember,
28:23
Speaker 1: she loves music, she loves singing, she loves dancing. So
28:32
Speaker 1: because she was so famous for being like on these
28:35
Speaker 1: cards and postcards and being like in this artist circle
28:40
Speaker 1: these well kind of like I want to say, like
28:43
Speaker 1: like movie producers word at the time, they like they'd
28:46
Speaker 1: come around and find you, but like theater producers would
28:50
Speaker 1: be looking to add her to their acts because she
28:53
Speaker 1: was a known face. She was a known entity. You know.
28:57
Speaker 1: It's kind of like stunt casting nowadays. You know, you'll
29:00
Speaker 1: see somebody and they'll pop them in a movie or
29:03
Speaker 1: pop them in a theater. I keep saying a movie
29:06
Speaker 1: when I keep meaning theater, and they'll bring them in
29:09
Speaker 1: there to just kind of sell tickets, you know, regardless
29:13
Speaker 1: of skill. And Evelyn does what Evelyn does, which is
29:17
Speaker 1: barger her mother until she says yes. So she gets
29:21
Speaker 1: her to like allow her to leave, you know, modeling
29:26
Speaker 1: and move into the world of the theater. So she
29:29
Speaker 1: gets an interview with the producer of The Floridor Girls,
29:33
Speaker 1: which is like the super wrong running long running play,
29:37
Speaker 1: which is very popular. It's on Broadway. It's it's the
29:40
Speaker 1: shit really, So her mom there's a little bit apprehensive
29:45
Speaker 1: about this, but then she finds out that some of
29:49
Speaker 1: the girls in the show went on to marry millionaires,
29:52
Speaker 1: and she's like, that's the trick. That's the trick. So
29:58
Speaker 1: nineteen oh one July Evelyn joined the chorus line as
30:04
Speaker 1: the Spanish Maiden. I think she's actually billed as Florence
30:09
Speaker 1: Evelyn and and people don't like her. They called her
30:19
Speaker 1: Flossy the fuss. Well, they didn't dislike her, they just
30:24
Speaker 1: thought she was a bit fussy. So she changed her
30:30
Speaker 1: name out of spite. I can't I can't be mad
30:34
Speaker 1: at that, So she just changes her like theatrical name
30:38
Speaker 1: to her nom de Broome, her artist's name to Evelyn
30:42
Speaker 1: is a bit instead of Florence Evelyn, because she's like,
30:45
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna fucking call me Flossi anymore, you fuckers.
30:48
Speaker 1: And after her run in Florid Dora, she gets this
30:53
Speaker 1: part in the Wild Roads. Ah, So George Lederer, I
30:59
Speaker 1: cannot say right, my tongue is not working today. What
31:02
Speaker 1: is wrong with this? Anyway, So he sees her and
31:07
Speaker 1: he's like, Wow, she's amazing. He feels like she's going
31:11
Speaker 1: to be the big thing. So he puts her in
31:14
Speaker 1: the World Rows and after having an interview with her,
31:19
Speaker 1: he decides that she isn't going to be a chorus girl.
31:25
Speaker 1: She's going to have a more prominent role. You know,
31:27
Speaker 1: she's going to be a featured player in this play.
31:33
Speaker 1: So she plays the role of this god. I don't
31:37
Speaker 1: want to say the word. Ah, let's just say romany
31:41
Speaker 1: girl called Vashti. I'm not saying the G word. I'm
31:45
Speaker 1: not doing it. And she is all over the papers,
31:48
Speaker 1: she is in the theatrical reviews, she is everywhere, and
31:53
Speaker 1: she's constantly in this like wheel of promotion. And they
31:58
Speaker 1: what's funny, this is going to shock you. You're gonna
32:00
Speaker 1: be shocked. This is shocking news. They talk about how
32:04
Speaker 1: beautiful she are, how she has a winsome face, how
32:07
Speaker 1: she's stunning and beautiful and amazing and gorgeous. They rarely
32:12
Speaker 1: mention her acting skills or performing skills. In fact, just
32:17
Speaker 1: how hot she is.
32:18
Speaker 2: Really.
32:20
Speaker 1: Ah, what a surprise, talking about a woman's looks and
32:23
Speaker 1: not her talent. Shocking. Now when she's performing here, like
32:30
Speaker 1: she's known, like she's being set up to be like
32:32
Speaker 1: the star, the star of the day, and you know,
32:36
Speaker 1: there's all these like articles about her and how she
32:39
Speaker 1: moved from being like the chorus girl to being the
32:42
Speaker 1: star and whatnot. And this may not all be organic,
32:47
Speaker 1: because there's a possibility that some of this promotion was
32:53
Speaker 1: cough cough encouraged by a mister Stanford White, who is
32:59
Speaker 1: Stanford White. You ask, I'm glad. I'm glad you asked,
33:02
Speaker 1: because I'll tell you. So he is introduced to Evelyn
33:09
Speaker 1: where everyone's introduced to him, like when she's doing Florid Dora,
33:14
Speaker 1: and he's known as Stannie by everyone because nicknames they're cute.
33:20
Speaker 1: And he is forty six years old when he meets
33:23
Speaker 1: the fifteen or sixteen year old Evelyn. He's also married
33:29
Speaker 1: with a son, Ah, but with that he is what
33:33
Speaker 1: one might call an independent social life, away from you know,
33:38
Speaker 1: the juries of family and whatnot. So he would actually
33:44
Speaker 1: use friends and other acquaintances to like talk to Evelyn
33:51
Speaker 1: so that she wouldn't be scared of him or threatened
33:53
Speaker 1: by him, like he would use other people to begin with.
33:57
Speaker 1: And when everyone meets him, she's like, he seems terribly
34:02
Speaker 1: old direct quote terribly old. Now I want you to
34:07
Speaker 1: imagine a forty six year old person like twenty years
34:10
Speaker 1: ago or in the eighties. Even have you seen a
34:13
Speaker 1: forty six year old from the eighties they look like
34:16
Speaker 1: the crypt keeper. Now imagine what they fucking looked like
34:20
Speaker 1: in nineteen oh one. That is not a good that's
34:25
Speaker 1: not a good man. Like have you seen a forty
34:27
Speaker 1: six year old man today? Some of them are hot,
34:31
Speaker 1: like some of them are still hot. I'm just they
34:36
Speaker 1: don't look that. I'm just saying anyway, So he gets
34:42
Speaker 1: invited or she gets invited to like luncheons and whatnot
34:47
Speaker 1: with you know, other people and chaperones and stannie. He
34:55
Speaker 1: invites them to his like skyscrapers and multi floor apartments.
34:58
Speaker 1: On one of them's above the Fao Schwartz, the toy store,
35:04
Speaker 1: and inside it's just fucking lush. It's lavish. See Stanford White,
35:12
Speaker 1: he's an architect, and so obviously shit's nice. So it's
35:18
Speaker 1: very extravagant, you know, there's beautiful furnishings. Everything's expensive. And
35:28
Speaker 1: after they have lunch, like they go upstairs, up two
35:35
Speaker 1: flights of stairs into this room which is green. It's
35:39
Speaker 1: a green room with this large red velvet swing and
35:44
Speaker 1: it's suspended from the ceiling. Yes, it's a kinkroom. Are
35:47
Speaker 1: you surprised?
35:48
Speaker 2: Now?
35:48
Speaker 1: I'm not here to yuck anybody's yum, but this is
35:51
Speaker 1: a fucking girl, This is a child. This is a
35:55
Speaker 1: grown ass, creepy old man, creepy fucking bastard, So creepy
36:00
Speaker 1: old bastard. So he gets sort of sit on this
36:05
Speaker 1: red swing and she pushes, you know, she's on the swing,
36:09
Speaker 1: and they would be this little was it a tambourine
36:12
Speaker 1: or a drum? There was a thing they were supposed
36:15
Speaker 1: to kick when they were on the swing. Now, let's
36:21
Speaker 1: just remember what undergarments were like in the early nineteen hundreds,
36:25
Speaker 1: like the way the bloomers were. There were splits in
36:29
Speaker 1: the blimmers so they could pee, you know, that's how
36:33
Speaker 1: they were designed. So if she was on it, kicking
36:36
Speaker 1: her legs no matter what, you know, she would be
36:43
Speaker 1: flashing her vulva at this man. So this whole thing
36:48
Speaker 1: was designed for him to upskirt young girls like this
36:55
Speaker 1: is a fucking child. This is ah creepy old bastard.
37:00
Speaker 1: So they're all playing games involving the swing, and again
37:04
Speaker 1: one of them is this little like kicking thing, and
37:07
Speaker 1: it's supposed to seem harmless because she doesn't know, she's
37:11
Speaker 1: not aware of it, not really, she doesn't get it
37:15
Speaker 1: because she's not she's not that I don't want to
37:20
Speaker 1: say mature, because she is. She's mature enough, but she's
37:24
Speaker 1: very innocent. At this point, in Stanford White, he comes
37:27
Speaker 1: across as witty and charming and non threatening and a
37:32
Speaker 1: lovely companion, well or, at the very least, and interesting companion,
37:37
Speaker 1: because he sets up you know, the Nesbits, so missus Nesbit,
37:42
Speaker 1: Howard and Evelyn with you know, he sponsors them to
37:48
Speaker 1: get you know, a better like living accommodation, so they
37:52
Speaker 1: have a they're in a suite in the Wellington Hotel,
37:57
Speaker 1: which he furnishes, and he basically wins over her mom.
38:04
Speaker 1: You know, he pays for the apartment, he furnishes it,
38:10
Speaker 1: and he pays for Howard to attend the Chester Military Academy,
38:15
Speaker 1: which is near Philadelphia. And then he suggests that Mummy
38:24
Speaker 1: and Nesbit there goes and visits some friends in Pittsburgh
38:28
Speaker 1: and that he will kindly look after Evelyn for her. So,
38:38
Speaker 1: I mean, oh, I did such a good thing for
38:41
Speaker 1: you one. He took control over their lives, He controlled
38:47
Speaker 1: their living arrangements, he controlled their education. He also provided
38:53
Speaker 1: divide and conquer. So he got rid of Howard, he
38:58
Speaker 1: got rid of the Mum, and now he has Evelyn.
39:02
Speaker 1: So while missus Nesbit is out of town visiting relatives,
39:08
Speaker 1: Evelyn is spending time what Dannie and he takes her
39:14
Speaker 1: to dinner. Well, he invites her to dinner in his apartment,
39:18
Speaker 1: the one with the swing. So they're there and they're
39:22
Speaker 1: drinking champagne and eating dinner, and they drink more champagne,
39:27
Speaker 1: which leads them to the green room, the room with
39:31
Speaker 1: the swing, and while they're there, they drink a little
39:35
Speaker 1: bit more champagne, after which Evelyn changes into this I
39:40
Speaker 1: think yellow satin or silk kimono. He asks her to
39:45
Speaker 1: change into a kimono, out of her clothes and into
39:49
Speaker 1: a bell a jacket technically Camo's dinner jacket. Is it dress? Well,
39:55
Speaker 1: it's like a robe one way or the other. It's
39:57
Speaker 1: not exactly a complicated outfit for her to getting out of.
40:03
Speaker 1: And she's in this outfit and that is the last
40:06
Speaker 1: thing she remembers. So was she drunk, just drunk from
40:13
Speaker 1: all the champagne or was she given something else? I mean,
40:17
Speaker 1: you can remember this is the time period where like
40:20
Speaker 1: the people were just giving you drugs, drugs, just giving drugs.
40:24
Speaker 1: They were everywhere, you know, like, oh, I've got a toothache. Here,
40:28
Speaker 1: have some cocaine. Oh, I can't sleep. Here more cocaine.
40:34
Speaker 1: That's not helping. Some morphine, then that'll do. The Art
40:38
Speaker 1: of Crime is a brand new history podcast about the
40:41
Speaker 1: unlikely collisions between true crime and the arts. Season one
40:45
Speaker 1: is titled The Unusual Suspects Artists Accused of being Jack
40:49
Speaker 1: the Ripper. It profils six renowned artists who have fallen
40:52
Speaker 1: under suspicion as the White Chapel murderer Lewis Carroll, Yes,
40:56
Speaker 1: the guy who wrote Alice in Wonderland, is the one
40:58
Speaker 1: best known to us today. Joining him, among others are
41:02
Speaker 1: the master wig maker and costume designers said to have
41:05
Speaker 1: supplied Scotland Yard with disguises while it was hunting the Ripper,
41:08
Speaker 1: the actor who originated the dual role of Doctor Jekyl
41:12
Speaker 1: and mister Hyde and was playing at in London at
41:14
Speaker 1: the time of the killing Spray, and the Victorian pop
41:17
Speaker 1: star who's brother It So Happens has also been accused
41:20
Speaker 1: of committing the crimes. As you meet each artists, you'll
41:23
Speaker 1: find out who they were, what it was like to
41:25
Speaker 1: work in their trades in the Victorian period, and why
41:28
Speaker 1: they've been nominated as Ripper candidates. You'll also explore this
41:31
Speaker 1: larger question, why have artists, especially great artists, proven so
41:36
Speaker 1: attractive as suspects. Subscribe today wherever you get your podcasts,
41:40
Speaker 1: and make sure to visit ww dot artifquempodcast dot com.
41:44
Speaker 1: You can also follow the show on Facebook and Instagram
41:47
Speaker 1: or perhaps simopium why not fuck it Love your Best
41:50
Speaker 1: Life content Warning, we're going to talk about as Salt
41:56
Speaker 1: for a minute, so we're going to need get his
41:58
Speaker 1: skip forward about two and a half to three minutes
42:03
Speaker 1: just to be safe. Okay, okay, So Evelyn, last thing
42:08
Speaker 1: she remembers, she's in the yellow satin kimono. Next thing
42:12
Speaker 1: she knows, she's lying in a bed and she's completely naked,
42:18
Speaker 1: and beside her is a naked Stanford White And not
42:26
Speaker 1: only that, but the sheets are stained with her blood.
42:33
Speaker 1: She's lost her virginity. Well I say lost. It was
42:39
Speaker 1: taken from her. This man assaulted her, he raped her.
42:47
Speaker 1: But again, this is the nineteen hundreds, and after this moment,
42:53
Speaker 1: Evelyn becomes well, it's always really phrase really funny, and
43:01
Speaker 1: everything I've read it's always phrased along the lines of
43:04
Speaker 1: she became his lover and his companion for some time.
43:13
Speaker 1: But like, this is coercion, this is abuse, This is
43:19
Speaker 1: her being forced into the situation because this is a
43:21
Speaker 1: young girl whose reputation relies on her purity. You know,
43:28
Speaker 1: she cannot be sullied. Like that's the fucking point, because
43:33
Speaker 1: misogyny and other fucking patriarchal bullshit which ruined these women's lives. Anyway,
43:45
Speaker 1: this is the man who is financially supporting her family.
43:49
Speaker 1: This is the man who could ruin her reputation because
43:53
Speaker 1: he was the one who assaulted her. And while they're together,
44:02
Speaker 1: you know, it's more like she just agreed to it,
44:04
Speaker 1: Like what other option does she have? You know? And
44:10
Speaker 1: she discovers over a period of time that he had
44:15
Speaker 1: been having like these, oh god, I'm not gonna say
44:18
Speaker 1: m hm situations with other young women and girls. And
44:24
Speaker 1: he kept an actual little black book. He recorded the
44:29
Speaker 1: names of every girl, every woman. He did this with MM. So,
44:42
Speaker 1: while this relationship is fading, she meets a young John Barrymore, Yes,
44:52
Speaker 1: Drew Barrymore's grandfather. Yes. So before we called them nepo babe,
45:00
Speaker 1: we called them acting dynasties. Unlesha Jane Fonda is just
45:05
Speaker 1: like my dad was Henry Fonda. That's how I've got
45:07
Speaker 1: a job. So John Barmore, he goes to a performance
45:14
Speaker 1: of The wild Rose, sees Evelyn and he's like, fucking yes,
45:19
Speaker 1: she's amazing. He goes to see the show twelve times,
45:25
Speaker 1: twelve times, like I don't even know if I've seen
45:28
Speaker 1: a movie in the theater, or twelve times. I don't
45:30
Speaker 1: even know if I've seen anything twelve times. That's a lie.
45:34
Speaker 1: I've seen Greece two more times than I can get
45:37
Speaker 1: and it's a dumpster fire and a fucking love it.
45:39
Speaker 1: So I've actually probably watched I've probably watched the Peter
45:46
Speaker 1: Ustinoff Death on the Nile like fifty or sixty times.
45:51
Speaker 1: I love Agatha Christi anyway, not the point. So during
45:58
Speaker 1: this party that Stanford White is hosting, John Barrymore is
46:03
Speaker 1: invited because Stanford is friends with Ethel Barrymore, because of
46:09
Speaker 1: course he is Ethel Barrymore. He's friends of everybody who
46:12
Speaker 1: is a very big actress at the time. So John
46:17
Speaker 1: Barrymore and Evelyn they have this relationship. He's twenty one
46:24
Speaker 1: at this point and she's again like sixteen, which still
46:29
Speaker 1: not great, but definitely better than forty six. So he's
46:37
Speaker 1: fun and charming and witty and and wait, no, I
46:43
Speaker 1: don't think he's the grandfather. I think he's the uncle. Granduncle. Yeah,
46:50
Speaker 1: because Ethel was the actress. He was a cartoonist. I
46:54
Speaker 1: think anyway, they are. They start seeing each other, and
47:01
Speaker 1: Stanford White and missus Nesbit don't think they were suitable
47:05
Speaker 1: match even though they're like they like each other and everything.
47:12
Speaker 1: John Barrymore isn't great with the family money. He squanders
47:16
Speaker 1: it and he's trying to you know, he's fun loving
47:19
Speaker 1: and not great with that kind of stuff, so he's
47:23
Speaker 1: seen as irresponsible. And they would, you know, spend the
47:29
Speaker 1: night in each other's apartments, and this was not seen
47:32
Speaker 1: as a good thing. So in order to like separate them,
47:39
Speaker 1: everyone gets sent to a boarding school in New Jersey
47:46
Speaker 1: run by the mother of director Cecil B. Demill. And
47:57
Speaker 1: in order to stop her being sent away to this
47:59
Speaker 1: boarding s, John Barrymore, in front of Stanford and Missus
48:06
Speaker 1: Nesbit asks Everylyn to marry him, but she turns him
48:12
Speaker 1: down in front of everybody. And while she's seeing Barrymore
48:17
Speaker 1: but also still involved with Stanford, she starts receiving these
48:22
Speaker 1: anonymous gifts, you know, and they're from well, they're from
48:27
Speaker 1: an eccentric fellow by the name of Harry Kendall thought
48:34
Speaker 1: he was one of the many gentlemen vying for her attention.
48:40
Speaker 1: So there was a bunch of people kind of looking
48:42
Speaker 1: for her. There was like the magazine publisher Robert J. Collier,
48:50
Speaker 1: the polo player James Montgomery Waterbury, there was, Yeah, and
48:57
Speaker 1: Harry Kendall thought, so these are just kind of men
49:03
Speaker 1: who are interested in her. The thing is about Thor though,
49:07
Speaker 1: is he's he's a little bit eccentric is probably the
49:10
Speaker 1: best way to describe it. I mean, yeah, I believe
49:16
Speaker 1: the general term is unhinged. So yes, And basically, and
49:25
Speaker 1: then he's at this party with her and he informs
49:29
Speaker 1: her that he is the one who's been sending her
49:31
Speaker 1: all these lavish gifts, and he attempts to court her,
49:37
Speaker 1: and this basically sets off this conflict between Stanford White
49:44
Speaker 1: and Kendall loop and he kind of stops getting invited
49:49
Speaker 1: to stuff, and he's not doing well in these circles,
49:53
Speaker 1: and he is convinced it's because of Stanford White. But yes,
50:00
Speaker 1: go back. She gets into boarding school, where she is
50:04
Speaker 1: then rushed to hospital with a case of appendicitis, or
50:10
Speaker 1: at least that's the official story. However, the rumor mill
50:15
Speaker 1: did suggest that she was not in fact there for
50:18
Speaker 1: an acute pendicitis attack, but was actually having an abortion
50:23
Speaker 1: because she was pregnant by John Barrymore. It's after this
50:28
Speaker 1: that Thaw starts visiting her and providing her with more gifts,
50:32
Speaker 1: and you know, he gets more interested in her, and
50:38
Speaker 1: Stannie gets less interested in her. Like so Harry Kendall
50:45
Speaker 1: though he kind of has this obsession with chast today
50:47
Speaker 1: because yeah, men in the past, even modern men, it's
50:52
Speaker 1: stillworthly rarely obsessed with this. And he also hated predators
50:57
Speaker 1: like White, so he was very he fucking hates and
51:02
Speaker 1: he hates some of the passion, and because like social circles,
51:06
Speaker 1: he'd been blocked and banned out with stuff. And also
51:08
Speaker 1: he was very vocal about the fact that he thought
51:10
Speaker 1: White was a predator. So, I mean, I'm not completely
51:15
Speaker 1: on Thought's side. I'm just saying I kind of get it, Like,
51:20
Speaker 1: I mean, right, idea, wrong reasons, you know, Yeah, so
51:25
Speaker 1: like don't want people to be predators, but don't be
51:28
Speaker 1: obsessed with the concept of Chastitay and Virginity like it's
51:31
Speaker 1: a fucking prize anyway. So he is, you know, paying
51:37
Speaker 1: for her like health care and her hospital care and
51:40
Speaker 1: all of her medical shit. And so he wants to
51:45
Speaker 1: take her to Europe. He's like, this will make you
51:48
Speaker 1: feel better Europe because that's what they did the European trip.
51:55
Speaker 1: So in order for her to go, her mother had
51:58
Speaker 1: to go too, because obviously it would be unseemly for
52:02
Speaker 1: her to travel alone with a man. So they go
52:07
Speaker 1: and it Thor has this awful like I don't want
52:12
Speaker 1: like he is a schedule which I don't think Speedy
52:15
Speaker 1: Gonzalez could actually use. It is really busy and it's
52:22
Speaker 1: very the rate of travel is really fast. And I
52:25
Speaker 1: don't know if it's because he's, you know, a few
52:28
Speaker 1: pickles short of a sandwich, or whether it's because he
52:32
Speaker 1: deliberately wanted to make it awkward for missus Nesbit so
52:35
Speaker 1: that she'd want to leave. But they get like things
52:41
Speaker 1: don't go well because missus Nesbit an Evelyn. They just
52:46
Speaker 1: start like fighting, and this leads to missus Nesbit wanting
52:51
Speaker 1: to go back to the States, but everyone doesn't want
52:55
Speaker 1: to go back to the States. Yet, so she stays
52:58
Speaker 1: with Thor, who then travel on to Paris and missus
53:01
Speaker 1: Nesbit she ends up in London. So while in Paris,
53:06
Speaker 1: he is like suggesting, well, he's proposing. He wants her
53:12
Speaker 1: to marry him, and Evelyn is incredibly aware of his,
53:18
Speaker 1: you know, purity obsession, and she says that she can't
53:24
Speaker 1: marry him because she's not fucking pure.
53:27
Speaker 2: You know.
53:32
Speaker 1: Right. She doesn't tell him at first, she just says
53:35
Speaker 1: that she can't accept it, and he badgers her. He
53:41
Speaker 1: demands to know, why, why can't you marry me? What
53:44
Speaker 1: is this like? What are you hiding like? Because she's
53:48
Speaker 1: you know, and he interrogates her and she tells him
53:58
Speaker 1: what happened. She tells him she was assaulted by Stane
54:04
Speaker 1: in thought, in a moment of pure clarity, proclaims that
54:11
Speaker 1: missus Nesbit was an unfit mother because this, and that
54:16
Speaker 1: this should not have happened to her, So yeah, no,
54:21
Speaker 1: maybe maybe don't leave your teenage daughter and the fucking
54:27
Speaker 1: arms of this old, creepy bastard. Anyway, he decides that
54:33
Speaker 1: the next part of this European tour, the Grand Tour
54:36
Speaker 1: as one might call it, was to these sites of
54:38
Speaker 1: virgin Martyrdom. I shit you not. Like They even go
54:42
Speaker 1: to like the birthplace of Joan of Arc and he
54:44
Speaker 1: writes in the visitor's book that she would not have
54:47
Speaker 1: been a virgin if Stanford White had been around. So
54:51
Speaker 1: he takes Evely into the cats at stein Castle where
54:54
Speaker 1: he had like a couple of like servants there, and
54:57
Speaker 1: they stay at one end of the building and he
54:59
Speaker 1: had and Evelyn like in isolated quarters at the opposite end.
55:06
Speaker 1: Now this is where a switch gets flicked. He locks
55:11
Speaker 1: her up in her room and then beats her with
55:14
Speaker 1: a whip. He whips her, beats her and assaults her
55:20
Speaker 1: for like a fortnight, and afterwards he's like, I'm so sorry,
55:28
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to do that to you. Yeah. Sure,
55:32
Speaker 1: for a man obsessed with purity and chastity, he had
55:34
Speaker 1: no fucking issue assaulting her. AnyWho. When they go back
55:40
Speaker 1: to New York, like Everylyn, she's like sharing this information
55:43
Speaker 1: about what happened, and all of this starts coming out
55:48
Speaker 1: about him being like an absolutely unhinged like fiend. They
55:53
Speaker 1: also tell her about the fact that he takes morphine
55:56
Speaker 1: and that he's you know, screw short of an ikea
56:01
Speaker 1: cabinet things are not it's not great, but considering her situation, Yeah,
56:09
Speaker 1: so her mom had remarried, like between leaving London and
56:15
Speaker 1: arriving in the States, when by the time, you know,
56:19
Speaker 1: things move on, her mom's remarried and they're cut off.
56:23
Speaker 1: They're done, and Evelyn she decides to marry finally fall
56:31
Speaker 1: So they get married on April fourth, nineteen oh five
56:35
Speaker 1: and a small gathering of family only. And the reason
56:39
Speaker 1: that the marriage was actually agreed to buy his mother
56:43
Speaker 1: was Evelyn had to like quit being a theater girl
56:45
Speaker 1: and become like an actual wife. And here's the thing though,
56:50
Speaker 1: chooses her wedding outfit and it's not address, it's a suit.
56:56
Speaker 1: He puts her in a suit for their wedding romantic.
57:01
Speaker 1: He also promises her that he'll live the life of
57:03
Speaker 1: a Benedictine monk, you know, and he'll be good to
57:05
Speaker 1: her and whatnot. Well, things are not great for her
57:13
Speaker 1: after this because when she is living in the Thaw
57:18
Speaker 1: family home, she feels, well, the gilded cage comes up
57:25
Speaker 1: a lot, the burden a gilded cage. The Thors were
57:31
Speaker 1: very strict Presbyterians, and they were strict. They had no
57:38
Speaker 1: joy and you know, they were very restrictive, and she
57:45
Speaker 1: was really fucking isolated. And she thought, you know, when
57:49
Speaker 1: they got married, they would travel and do all this
57:51
Speaker 1: stuff that you know people with wealth dead back in
57:54
Speaker 1: the day. But she discovered that her husband was very
58:00
Speaker 1: much a mummy's boy and was quote unquote a pious son.
58:07
Speaker 1: So he was a good Presbyterian boy who'd listened to
58:10
Speaker 1: what his mother told him. They didn't entertain guests, they
58:13
Speaker 1: didn't go places. She was just stuck. And while he
58:18
Speaker 1: was being a wee religious weirdo, he was also like
58:21
Speaker 1: starting this campaign to expose Stanford White, which you know,
58:28
Speaker 1: would have ruined his wife's reputation at the time. Like that,
58:33
Speaker 1: I'm just saying he didn't think this through, like he
58:35
Speaker 1: would have made her life even more difficult than it
58:38
Speaker 1: already was. He even got like really paranoid that he
58:42
Speaker 1: was being followed by gangs who had been hired by Stanford.
58:46
Speaker 1: But in reality, Stanford White thought he was of little
58:50
Speaker 1: consequence and didn't really give a shit about him. He
58:53
Speaker 1: didn't even think that much about Evelyn because this was
58:55
Speaker 1: something he did often. This was like a footnote in
58:59
Speaker 1: his life. But for Ah thought it was not and
59:06
Speaker 1: he just fucking hated the man. And then well, in
59:13
Speaker 1: a crazy random happenstance, they're supposed to go on this
59:18
Speaker 1: luxury well cruise lighter. They're supposed to go for European holiday. Honestly,
59:24
Speaker 1: every one must have been like, fuck, yes, finally, let's
59:27
Speaker 1: get out of here. They've been married for about a
59:30
Speaker 1: year and they're You're Headington, New York, and he gets
59:36
Speaker 1: tickets to Ma'amselle Champagne. It's this rooftop theater Madison Square Garden.
59:43
Speaker 1: They go to Kathy Martin for dinner where they just
59:46
Speaker 1: so happened to see Stanford White. What again, what a
59:54
Speaker 1: crazy random happens dance and it is really fucking hot,
1:00:01
Speaker 1: and Thaw has this long black overcoat and it's over
1:00:06
Speaker 1: his takuro and he is refusing to take it off
1:00:10
Speaker 1: like it is a really it's June. It's June in
1:00:14
Speaker 1: New York on a rooftop of the yourt like it
1:00:17
Speaker 1: is hot as fuck, man, you need to be taken
1:00:19
Speaker 1: that coat off, like it's very suspicious. So around eleven
1:00:27
Speaker 1: o'clock night, you know, the show is just coming to
1:00:30
Speaker 1: an end, and Stanford White shows up and he takes
1:00:35
Speaker 1: this seat at this table which is generally reserved for him,
1:00:41
Speaker 1: and it is known to be reserved for him and
1:00:49
Speaker 1: Harry Kendall thaw. He gets up and he goes over,
1:00:53
Speaker 1: and he comes back again, and he keeps going back
1:00:57
Speaker 1: and forth but not quite making it all the way there,
1:01:01
Speaker 1: like he's almost at him but not. And then during
1:01:06
Speaker 1: the finale song I Could Love a Million Girls, mister
1:01:11
Speaker 1: though pulls a pistol out from his fucking overcoat and
1:01:15
Speaker 1: from about an arm's length away from the man, fires
1:01:20
Speaker 1: three shots into the back of his head, surprisingly killing
1:01:26
Speaker 1: him instantly. He fired three warning shots into his head.
1:01:32
Speaker 1: Hey had it coming, so he gets shot. He's dead.
1:01:36
Speaker 1: Stand for white. The predator has been shot dead. Oh dear,
1:01:42
Speaker 1: And basically the things are going wild. People are screaming,
1:01:46
Speaker 1: they can't like. It's just a lot going on. And
1:01:49
Speaker 1: there's like different reports as to what he said, but
1:01:51
Speaker 1: it's something along lines of you ruined my wife, you
1:01:57
Speaker 1: destroyed my wife, you took it from her, took advantage
1:02:00
Speaker 1: of her, you abandon her. He had it coming to him,
1:02:04
Speaker 1: He'll never god with another woman again. He may have
1:02:08
Speaker 1: also said you ruined my life or you know. It
1:02:11
Speaker 1: just kind of varies the you know, well, here's the thing.
1:02:20
Speaker 1: At first, I mean before the screaming, people thought it
1:02:24
Speaker 1: might be a joke, and then it was very aware
1:02:26
Speaker 1: that this man's brains were all over his table, so
1:02:30
Speaker 1: not not quite great though. I was basically taken into
1:02:37
Speaker 1: police custoday and Evelyn just legs it. She you know,
1:02:45
Speaker 1: she's smart enough to not go back to the hotel
1:02:47
Speaker 1: room because she doesn't want to have to deal with
1:02:49
Speaker 1: this chaos, and she ends up finding an old chorus
1:02:52
Speaker 1: girlfriend and staying with her. So the very next day,
1:02:57
Speaker 1: the newspapers are right, there's just just sensations media of
1:03:04
Speaker 1: the day, so you know, there is there's all the
1:03:08
Speaker 1: stuff coming out with Stanford why and like all the
1:03:11
Speaker 1: horrible shiry dead, and then it really paints Evelyn as
1:03:15
Speaker 1: this like innocent, an innocent victim who toddled into the
1:03:20
Speaker 1: arms of Satan. That was something somebody actually wrote in
1:03:24
Speaker 1: the newspaper You're welcome. So it basically it basically tore
1:03:29
Speaker 1: Stanford wide apart, which is good and kind of promoted
1:03:33
Speaker 1: it as you know, this man was standing up for
1:03:37
Speaker 1: his you know, his wife's owner. But of course there's
1:03:39
Speaker 1: always at least one male journalist going Stanford just adored
1:03:44
Speaker 1: all beautiful things, beautiful girls, beautiful buildings. Nah, he was
1:03:50
Speaker 1: a creepy bastard. Get over it. And then it comes
1:03:53
Speaker 1: to the trial, the trial which is known as it's
1:03:56
Speaker 1: notice the crime of the century. Granted we're only six
1:03:59
Speaker 1: years under the century, but that's not the point. It
1:04:01
Speaker 1: was a big deal. And because of this, like, well,
1:04:07
Speaker 1: this is a rich family, this is generational wealth. And
1:04:13
Speaker 1: thus mob is very aware that, you know, that mental
1:04:17
Speaker 1: illness runs in the family, and she tries to convince
1:04:22
Speaker 1: his defense team to work from a basis of temporary
1:04:25
Speaker 1: insanity as opposed to clinically insane, because you know, doesn't
1:04:29
Speaker 1: want her son locked up. And what happens is she
1:04:34
Speaker 1: spent so long like hiding his eccentricities and you know,
1:04:40
Speaker 1: mental well being, and she works, you know, knowing that
1:04:47
Speaker 1: everyone's going to get torn apart, the public scrutiny, everyone's
1:04:49
Speaker 1: going to be judging them and everything that goes with it.
1:04:52
Speaker 1: So she hires these doctors, costing her half a million,
1:04:58
Speaker 1: half a million dollars, half a million dollars back then,
1:05:05
Speaker 1: like I don't even have the math. Very much of that,
1:05:07
Speaker 1: isn't it. And so it's basically trying to work this
1:05:12
Speaker 1: as one like loan event spurred on, you know, by
1:05:19
Speaker 1: a crime of passion. You know, one person who's there
1:05:21
Speaker 1: but not there is missus Nesbit. She's working with the
1:05:25
Speaker 1: prosecution because they're kind of accusing her of selling Evelyn
1:05:32
Speaker 1: to Stanford White, like prostituting her out, like that is
1:05:36
Speaker 1: what they're worried about. So she's kind of there but
1:05:38
Speaker 1: not there, and everyone has to, you know, go on
1:05:41
Speaker 1: the stand and she's good. You know, this is not great.
1:05:47
Speaker 1: There's something she really wants to do, but she's paid
1:05:51
Speaker 1: by the Thaw family an amount to do so. And
1:05:55
Speaker 1: you know, if the verdict doesn't turn out the way
1:05:57
Speaker 1: they wanted to, she gets a smaller amount, and if
1:05:59
Speaker 1: it out the way they do want it to, she
1:06:02
Speaker 1: gets a larger amount. Thor was tried twice for killing
1:06:06
Speaker 1: Stanford White. The first time, the jury's deadlocked because like
1:06:10
Speaker 1: seven are like saying he's guilty if I were saying
1:06:12
Speaker 1: he's not guilty, and Thor goes absolutely backshit, he is
1:06:17
Speaker 1: well mad that you know, they don't understand that he
1:06:21
Speaker 1: was he was being chivalrous, he was standing up for
1:06:24
Speaker 1: women's honor. And the second trial, well, yeah, and that's
1:06:31
Speaker 1: but that happens in nineteen o eight and he again
1:06:35
Speaker 1: he played temporary in sanity and he was found not
1:06:39
Speaker 1: guilty on the grounds of insanity and he was sentenced
1:06:44
Speaker 1: to involuntary commitment for life in the Mattawan State Hospital
1:06:49
Speaker 1: for their criminally insane. Luckily enough, he's rich as fuck,
1:06:55
Speaker 1: so he gets like really comfortable accommodation, he gets privileges,
1:07:00
Speaker 1: and you know, he gets he gets like a fucking
1:07:05
Speaker 1: legal team together and he's trying to get him declared
1:07:10
Speaker 1: not insane. It took seven years for that to happen.
1:07:16
Speaker 1: And during this time he escapes, flies to Canada and
1:07:23
Speaker 1: then gets sent back to the US and then gets released.
1:07:27
Speaker 1: He knew golded cool. In nineteen ten, everyone gives birth
1:07:36
Speaker 1: to a son, Russell William Thought in Berlin, Germany, and
1:07:42
Speaker 1: she says it's you know, it's those biological child. It
1:07:46
Speaker 1: was conceived during a conjugal visit. Thought is like, nope,
1:07:52
Speaker 1: that's not my boy. He denies it, He denies paternity,
1:07:55
Speaker 1: and he says that's not it, but she's like, no,
1:07:58
Speaker 1: it is. And they can't prove it's not so well
1:08:02
Speaker 1: at the time, they couldn't purpose not they could probably
1:08:04
Speaker 1: do it now some genial change shit twenty three at Yeah.
1:08:10
Speaker 1: A year later, when her son is one, Evelyn reconciles
1:08:14
Speaker 1: with her mother, and her mother looks after her son.
1:08:20
Speaker 1: The women who struggle to look after you, you're giving
1:08:22
Speaker 1: a baby too. That's not a good plan, Evelyn, but
1:08:26
Speaker 1: you know, you do you. So she decides to go
1:08:29
Speaker 1: and you know, try and get work because she's no
1:08:33
Speaker 1: longer being supported by the Thaw family. Like during during
1:08:38
Speaker 1: the trial she was getting paid like a steppend really
1:08:44
Speaker 1: and they give her money to go and the stand
1:08:49
Speaker 1: and being the completely spiteful wench that she is, and
1:08:54
Speaker 1: I fucking love it. She donates the money to the
1:08:58
Speaker 1: anarchist Emma Goldman, who if you don't know Emma Goldman,
1:09:02
Speaker 1: she's actually who I talk about in my first episode
1:09:08
Speaker 1: of Gasolic goos and Groomed with BATHT Award winning comedian
1:09:12
Speaker 1: Luisa Omalando. I am her resident historian. So yeah, she
1:09:20
Speaker 1: gets a bit of success because she's like going to
1:09:23
Speaker 1: vaudeville and then she ends up in the Moving Pictures.
1:09:27
Speaker 1: She appears in Threads of Destiny and in nineteen fifteen
1:09:33
Speaker 1: when Thought is declared legally saying and gets released her present.
1:09:37
Speaker 1: Everyone divorces him, and pretty soon after marries her dance
1:09:42
Speaker 1: partner Jack Clifford. Their marriage does not go well. In
1:09:47
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty one, she tries a change of career and
1:09:50
Speaker 1: tries to open up a tea room. It does not
1:09:53
Speaker 1: go well. I mean, well, it's a tea room, but
1:09:58
Speaker 1: it was also probably which is just good business sense,
1:10:03
Speaker 1: that's amazing. But she, you know, she's struggling with money,
1:10:08
Speaker 1: she has an alcohol problem, and she's addicted to morphine.
1:10:14
Speaker 1: After this, you know, she tries to do like she
1:10:16
Speaker 1: joins these like we cabarets and places, and she even
1:10:21
Speaker 1: tries a bit of her lesque. And this is going
1:10:24
Speaker 1: through the twenties and the thirties, and yeah, things things
1:10:30
Speaker 1: are not great. She gets really depressed and she tries
1:10:35
Speaker 1: to enter her life by drinking disinfectant. However, the reason
1:10:41
Speaker 1: she survives is because her stomach was full of gin
1:10:47
Speaker 1: direct hope from the doctors. Like, yeah, so things are
1:10:53
Speaker 1: kind of weird for her. She stays friendly with though,
1:10:57
Speaker 1: and of course there's rumors flying around that they're going
1:10:59
Speaker 1: to work and know their marriage, like especially when she
1:11:02
Speaker 1: shows up to like the opening of this Manhattan Cathy
1:11:05
Speaker 1: he has called she Evelyn subtle Man subtle. But yeah,
1:11:13
Speaker 1: when he dies, he actually bequeaths what like ten thousand
1:11:16
Speaker 1: dollars out of a one million dollar estate to her,
1:11:19
Speaker 1: which we but like pocket change. I'm just saying, like hmm,
1:11:27
Speaker 1: But yeah, she kind of fades from the news really
1:11:33
Speaker 1: until Albert Langford gets murdered because her friend is Marie
1:11:38
Speaker 1: and Langford and she gets questioned about it. So she's
1:11:43
Speaker 1: in Thing us again and it's an unsolved case. I
1:11:48
Speaker 1: might cover it sometime, but yeah, she kind of like
1:11:52
Speaker 1: fades into obscurity up until nineteen fifty five, where she
1:11:57
Speaker 1: is she is approached to be at the technical advisor
1:12:03
Speaker 1: on a movie, The Girl in the Red Velvet Swing
1:12:07
Speaker 1: starring John Crawford, where she earns ten thousand dollars. Seems
1:12:12
Speaker 1: to be her going right, and it's supposed to be
1:12:15
Speaker 1: like based on a true story, and then based on
1:12:19
Speaker 1: a true story, usually half of its bullshit, and it's
1:12:22
Speaker 1: kind of like this imagined telling of her in Stanford
1:12:26
Speaker 1: whites like Stanny their relationship, if you can call it that. Well,
1:12:34
Speaker 1: while she's working on this film, she fucking collapses from exhaustion,
1:12:39
Speaker 1: like as she's in her later years, she decides she's
1:12:44
Speaker 1: gonna leave New York because her son's living in California.
1:12:47
Speaker 1: She's going to go there too, so she moves there.
1:12:50
Speaker 1: She takes up sculpting, and then in nineteen fifty six
1:12:54
Speaker 1: she suffers a stroke, which she recovers from a bit.
1:12:59
Speaker 1: It's not the worst kind of stroke, but it's still
1:13:02
Speaker 1: not good. In nineteen sixty six, she moves into a
1:13:07
Speaker 1: nursing home, and on January seventeenth, nineteen sixty seven, Florence
1:13:13
Speaker 1: Evelyn Nesbit passes away at the age of eighty two.
1:13:21
Speaker 1: I mean, at least she got to pass away in
1:13:23
Speaker 1: a Santa Monica nursing home. I mean, it's not the
1:13:25
Speaker 1: worst way to go. I'm fairly certain. And yeah, that
1:13:31
Speaker 1: is the story of Evelyn Nesbit, the original Kipsen Girl.
1:13:38
Speaker 1: If you liked my retelling of this story, please rate
1:13:41
Speaker 1: in review of five stars, say nice things. I feel
1:13:44
Speaker 1: like I was slower speaking this time. My head I
1:13:48
Speaker 1: don't think is fully back up to being normal. But
1:13:51
Speaker 1: that's okay, but you bet in review five stars, say
1:13:54
Speaker 1: nice things about me, or say nothing at all. It's okay.
1:13:57
Speaker 1: My ego will be bruised, but it's fine. It's fine. Also,
1:14:03
Speaker 1: whoever sent me two books from Amazon, you didn't leave
1:14:07
Speaker 1: like a note, so I don't know who you are,
1:14:09
Speaker 1: so I can't thank you. And I would like to
1:14:11
Speaker 1: thank you because that's so lovely. I just I like
1:14:15
Speaker 1: to be able to respond, you know. But yeah, if
1:14:19
Speaker 1: you want to send my stuf, I've got a wishless
1:14:20
Speaker 1: on Amazon, and you can write fan mail and there's
1:14:23
Speaker 1: a link in the bio or in the description down below,
1:14:27
Speaker 1: not in the bio but on the internet too long.
1:14:30
Speaker 1: But also in addition, furthermore, you can follow me on
1:14:35
Speaker 1: all the socials. I'm on Twitter and Instagram. Yeah, I
1:14:38
Speaker 1: tend to respond more on Instagram because it's easier than
1:14:41
Speaker 1: anywhere else. I am on TikTok. I'm kind of jumping
1:14:44
Speaker 1: more Instagram and TikTok right now, so I am there.
1:14:47
Speaker 1: I will eventually get the YouTube storted, but I just
1:14:49
Speaker 1: don't have time right now. And if you have any
1:14:53
Speaker 1: requests of people and stuff or events, you're my recover,
1:14:56
Speaker 1: let me know so I can research it in fact
1:14:58
Speaker 1: check it and cry about all the reas I have
1:15:00
Speaker 1: to do. It's fine, but yeah, if you liked this,
1:15:06
Speaker 1: please say hey, yay and great and share it with
1:15:08
Speaker 1: your friends, because more people who listen to it, you know,
1:15:12
Speaker 1: the better it works for me, pushes me up the charts,
1:15:15
Speaker 1: and it really helps me make this more of something.
1:15:21
Speaker 1: But yes, thank you so much, thank you for listening.
1:15:23
Speaker 1: I'm sorry for being hung over the other day. I'm
1:15:26
Speaker 1: sorry that my lungs still haven't seemed to have caught
1:15:28
Speaker 1: up with the rest of me. And you're awesome, You're fantastic.
1:15:35
Speaker 1: You deserve a hug, unless you don't like being physically
1:15:38
Speaker 1: touched too much. Case, you deserve a head nod. I
1:15:42
Speaker 1: just nodded, if you can see it. But yeah, ah,
1:15:46
Speaker 1: recommendation time for listening. I am going to recommend Wine
1:15:52
Speaker 1: and Crime, which I started to re listen to lately
1:15:55
Speaker 1: because somebody was like, I thought Kenyan left and joined
1:15:59
Speaker 1: Hooded what And I was like, no, that's me and
1:16:02
Speaker 1: they're and this like follower fun. It's like no, no,
1:16:07
Speaker 1: I love you both and you remind me of so
1:16:09
Speaker 1: and so, and I was like, oh cool, I thought,
1:16:11
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, You're cool. Sorry A yeah, god, I'm so tired.
1:16:18
Speaker 1: It's like the middle of the night. And for watching
1:16:25
Speaker 1: watch the pro shoot of the Legally Blonde musical, Oh
1:16:28
Speaker 1: my gosh, you guys, is just perfect. It's a perfect.
1:16:31
Speaker 1: It's just they do it perfectly. It's amazing. Let me
1:16:34
Speaker 1: see anything else for reading. I am going to recommend
1:16:42
Speaker 1: the book Eight Detectives. If you like slithing, you'll like this.
1:16:48
Speaker 1: And with that, I will bid you all good night.
1:16:52
Speaker 1: Arios or of War, of where is it? My friends?
1:16:56
Speaker 1: Ah bye bye