Latest / The Science of Skin / Dr. Zein Obagi: Innovative approaches to restoring skin health

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Dr. Zein Obagi: Innovative approaches to restoring skin health · The Science of Skin

0:09
SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Dr.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Patty Ferris.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm a board certified dermatologist, and I am the co-host of Skin Care Confidential.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: As many of you know, Skin Care Confidential is an offshoot of a medical meeting that I started with Dr.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Ted Lane called the Science of Skin Care Summit.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: And we started the podcast because we wanted to give our listeners a 360 view of the skincare industry.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: So today it is so fitting that I am interviewing one of the honestly legends pioneers in skincare, Dr.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: Zan Obaji.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: His bio is in front of me.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: It's so lengthy, I can't possibly read it all because it would take up the whole podcast.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: But I'm going to read snippets and then I'm going to turn it over to him to fill in some of the gaps here.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Dr.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Obaji completed his derm residency in the United States Navy, which I did not know, and embarked into dermatology practice in 1981.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: His practice in Beverly Hills was started in 1989, and in 2006, he started the Obaji Skin Health Institute, which is also in Beverly Hills.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: He also has satellite locations in St.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Gabriel and in Laguna Beach.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: It's exhausting already.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: After more than 35 years of experience, he is known as a researcher and innovator, total innovator, which you're going to hear about, an author, an educator.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: And he really has an international reputation for his, I'm going to say, passion for skin health and also skin rejuvenation.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: And you're going to hear about some of his really forward-thinking ideas when it comes to these two subjects.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: He's also one of the world's renowned experts in chemical peeling, especially peeling patients with skin of color, which is something that a lot of dermatologists shy away from because we all know how problematic and how difficult that can be.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's a skill that he's taught to many dermatologists and plastic surgeons.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: And I was really excited to see a lot of your work in that area when we met in Mexico a couple of months back.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: So you were really a pioneer in being one of the first dermatologists and maybe even the first dermatologists to start their own skincare line.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: So I want you to take me back to the early Obaji medical days and then talk about how you started not one, but two extremely successful medical grade skincare lines, and really what motivated you to do that back in the early days when nobody else was doing it.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, Patty, it is really a pleasure to talk to you and to whoever be watching this uh podcast.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: I when I graduated from the Navy residency and opened my private clinic, I really was frustrated with what we have in our hands or available to treat our patients.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: I noticed from early days, because I'm a pathologist before I'm a dermatologist, I noticed from early days that the treatment has limitations.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: We as a dermatologist focus on treatment of skin surface, what is on the surface, we treat symptoms and we treat what we see.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: However, we don't see all the structural damage that can affect the skin below the surface.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: So correcting the surface is like painting a crumbling wall, and the ball will crumble no matter what.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: So I took it from that moment on and say, okay, how can I go to the source of the problem below the surface?
3:49
SPEAKER_01: So I figured out that the only way will be is to create some sort of formulation that will reach and work at the cellular level, at the carotinocyte level, at the melanocyte level, at the fibrocyte level, and so forth.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: So I started early in combining some creams.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: I worked with the pharmacist, I used to call him and tell him, combine for me, for example, retin A with the alpha hydroxy acid, this, this, this, with various concentration, with makes things short.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: It took a time to figure out that what we need is really something special that can activate cellular function, regulate cellular function, stimulate cellular function in order for us to achieve the really nice appearing skin.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: I came and termed the science when I started all this the skin health science.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: Before 1981, the term skin health did not exist.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: It existed after I induced the term, and the term created a shockwave in the dermatology field.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Because for the first time, somebody is talking about healthy skin.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: So I used as a sample or model the baby skin.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: I created the definition, which is absolutely essential for us, all of us, dermatologists, to know.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: I created definition with seven attributes.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Skin should be smooth naturally, without any additive, like a baby skin.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Skin should be smooth, even in color, firm and tight, tolerant, hydrated, and free of disease, with enough contour, no loss of volume.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: So this definition guided me in trying whenever I analyze skin type is to analyze what is missing in this patient.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Yes, let's say he has acne.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we usually focus on the acne, but we don't pay attention.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: Is acne associated with PIH?
6:08
SPEAKER_01: Is acne associated with textural damage?
6:11
SPEAKER_01: Is acne associated with large pores?
6:14
SPEAKER_01: Is acne associated with a dry, rough skin?
6:17
SPEAKER_01: So these things here are guides to perfect our treatment and guide each one of us to achieve the best result that we can achieve.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: So it took me really through frustration of what we have is not enough.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: So I worked hard in creating the unique formulation that's not available.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have to create the system.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: I went to a company and they formulated for me all what I'm asking for, and it took a lot of experience and testing before we come up with.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: So the first old Ubagi product that I came up with, really the main focus was to target the biggest problem we face as a dermatologist, the pigmentation problem.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: The pigmentation was a problem, big one.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: So I figured out a way not only to reduce pigment production, but how to control the melanocyte in reproducing, let's say, melanin in a normal way, reducing the sensitivity of melanocyte.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: So the melanocyte will not react negatively to hormone, to sun, to injury, to appeal, to laser, whatever we do.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: So controlling a melanocyte was essential for me.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: And at early stages, I created their unique concept of bleaching the skin, mean reducing melanin production using hydroquinone, and then blending mean restoring the horizontal distribution of melanin in the skin.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, most dermatologists used to treat skin just by bleaching.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: Bleaching.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: Hydroquinone only.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: So what we needed to do is to do bleaching followed by blending.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: Blending means when I make retinol or hydrogenomic acid, I mix it with the hydroquinone, with anti-inflammatory agents, and reduce the melanin production and restore horizontal distribution.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: So that was the only thing I did with the OBG1.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Later on and it was magic, I might say.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that was one of the most incredible, and I think it was the first system that we really started using that.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it worked on melasma, it worked on PIH, it worked on all kinds of hyperpigmentation.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: No doubt.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: So that was something very important.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: The second thing is acne and associated, let's say damage in the texture, scars, especially scars.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: I figured out why don't we prevent acne?
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Why don't we enable dermatologists to target cystic lesions and prevent it from forming the depressed scar in the skin when it dries up and goes away?
9:15
SPEAKER_01: And so I felt that acne is not caused only by bacteria.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: No, bacteria may play a component in creating inflammation, increasing the inflammation level.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: And my strong belief is that acne is produced due to the negative immune rejection of sebum trapped in the skin.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: So that's led me to believe that reducing sebum or eliminating sebum, because sebum has really no beneficial function in the skin.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: Reducing sebum or eliminating sebum will eliminate acne.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: And I started adopting that.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: So I created the step to wash and scrub the skin and apply certain agents that really dissolve sebum and eliminate sebum.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: Wash, scrub, reduce oil.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: That was the first step in my skin health restoration.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: And then apply whatever you want, benzoyl peroxide, you want to apply topical antibiotic, you want to apply alpha hydroxy acid, you want to apply retinuic acid, retinol, then you can apply them.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: The trick was to figure out what are we doing?
10:30
SPEAKER_01: It's not the idea write a prescription for, let's say, retin A for a patient, and the patient goes and applies retin A on the face.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: I will not know how much he applied.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how if he is going to be really responsive to the irritating effects of the retinoic acid.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: So that's led that's what really a main reason for treatment failure by many patients, because they have poor compliance to the reaction from benzio, from retinoic acid, from all the harsh treatment that sometimes we need to use.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: I figured out later while I'm perfecting the skin health science, I figured out the main problem that we all ignored until now we ignore is the chronic inflammation in the skin that seep in the skin from early age, from the sun, from exposure to elements, using the wrong products.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: So this chronic inflammation is absolutely a destructive process.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: It disturbs cellular function, it alter changes texture of the skin, it creates all the damage that we see associated with many diseases.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: So I said to myself, how can I eliminate chronic inflammation?
11:53
SPEAKER_01: There's no antibiotic that will eliminate it.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: It is something chronic sitting there.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: So I figured out, it took me years that really the only way to eliminate chronic inflammation is by creating an acute inflammation.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: And that was the reason when I used, for example, ZO products or the second generation of the product I created.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: My first objective is wash, scrub, all control to eliminate siebum.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: The step two will come, eliminate chronic inflammation.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I tell the patient in the first five, six weeks, what are the signs of acute inflammation?
12:36
SPEAKER_01: I'll give you a good example.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: If you have eczema on your hands, contact dermatitis immediately.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Just you act negatively to something.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: What you will see?
12:45
SPEAKER_01: You'll see redness, swallow, peeling, tingling, itching, burning, see.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: That's acute inflammation.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: If you don't treat it, it becomes chronic eczema sitting.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: That's chronic inflammation.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: That's what will make things stubborn and really, even if you apply topical uh steroids and stuff like that, may not respond very well to treatment.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: What we need is we need to restructure the natural structures of the skin, restore that natural structure of the skin, and regulate cellular function.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: So when my patients start on ZO products, they will have the first four or five weeks.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: It's acute inflammation that will be red, dry, and exfoliation.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: The face will be red, dry, and exfoliating.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: It's unheard of in dermatology.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: We always use to shy away.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: If a medicine or a cream or topical thing reacted the reaction, what our first response to the complaint?
13:46
SPEAKER_01: Stop it.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: We'll give you something else.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: Reduce it, apply it less frequently.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: No.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: We need to target skin and create successful acute inflammation that is short-lived.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: Within four to five weeks, six weeks maximum, it will disappear with the chronic inflammation.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: Second, we used to treat patients right away as a uh, for example, here's prescription for benzol peroxide.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: The patient will take the prescription and say, Oh my god, I cannot tolerate that.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: My skin is sensitive.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: And that's also another big problem for all of us: sensitivity of the skin.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: Sensitive.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: And as I mentioned in many places, ask hundred women, how many of you have sensitive dry skin?
14:40
SPEAKER_01: You will see a lot of hands raised.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: Everybody.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: How many of you have sensitive dry skin?
14:47
SPEAKER_01: No hands will be raised.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: It's not has to do with gender.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: It's because women used to use product, and mostly, unfortunately, most of the product sold out there as a skincare will weaken the barrier function, disrupt the barrier function, and skin intolerance.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Make you sensitive.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: So see, it is a complicated issue to for 30 minutes to talk about all the science here.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: But the point is we want to guide a dermatologist that if you want to have a successful treatment, you have to use the right product that goes down and work at the cellular level.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: It is really essential that you have to work at the source.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: Second, you have to restore back normal structures of the skin, restore hydration, natural hydration from within.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a funny thing.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: We ignore, we think that by applying moisturizer on the skin surface, we are restoring hydration.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: We are not.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: We are only hydrating stratum corneum.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Water will not go below the stratum corneum.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Water has to come from within.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: And the water comes from within with age.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: What traps water from within is a glycos aminoglycan, as you know, in the papillary dermis.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: It's like a sponge.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: It traps the water and release it 24 hours continuously.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: So the point then, we really have to restore natural hydration, build barrier function before we treat any disease.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna I it will take me forever to talk, not allowing you to talk.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna take a break.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: This is exactly why I was excited about having you on, because I have having heard you give this, I'm gonna say, lecture or presentation, I felt like the concepts were very innovative.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: You have a very different way of looking at things that I think comes from your experience as a clinician.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: It also comes from your experience working with formulators and understanding skincare in a way that, you know, quite frankly, most dermatologists don't understand it.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: I think you do learn something.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh, as you know, I don't have a skincare line.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: I've never started one, but I've worked with lots of cosmetic companies and you do learn so much from cosmetic researchers, from working with formulators, and so you understand the inner workings of the physiology of the skin as well as how to help make the skin healthier.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: I think it's very interesting that with ZL Skin Health that you really took your skin health platform and developed this, you know, very comprehensive line that has skin, you know, just products that are good for general skin health, but also products for treating various skin conditions.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: We have to be involved as a dermatologist in educating the public.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: We when we educate the public, I believe strongly, and this is what's gonna be the most dominant factor in the coming 50 years.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: We can prevent so many things from happening in our skin.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: We can prevent acne, rosacea, ciborea, melastma, pigmentation, pIH, damaged texture, large pore, and aging.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: How?
18:17
SPEAKER_01: By keeping the cell working properly, by using the right product that activate, deliver the nutrients, the things the cell needs.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: So prevention is the best thing we can do.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: If we can, you as a dermatologist, me and other dermatologists have really go and educate the public that before you start a skincare product, you have to know your skin type.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: You have to know your skin needs.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: You just don't buy a product blindly and put it on your face.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: Most women do.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: So what they say, I mean smell good, feel good.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: I want it.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: But it's a science.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: So we need to go beyond that.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: That's what keeps us in business, unfortunately.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: You're right about that, though.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: And I think that the more we educate, the better it is for the public.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: And in in some ways, social media has been good that way because there are a lot of dermatologists out there putting out a lot of really good content.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: But then the flip side is that you have so many people who really don't have the credentials who are out there giving advice.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where we get in trouble.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: You hit on something that I really believe in, and that is individualized skincare.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: The notion that everybody should use the same things just really doesn't make any sense to us as dermatologists.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think this is one thing we fight with marketing of you know consumer brands is this sort of one size fits all notion.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: I think you taught you hit it right.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: The social media now is really, yes, it can deliver pro good information to the public.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: But in general, I listen, I watch uh Facebook, I watch Instagram.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: What I hear and see as promoted as something good for the skin, and the public just got excited and say, Wow, I will try that, I will try that.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: Marketing, the the the it's everybody want to make money through product.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: People think that if I make product like movie stars, each one of them, some of them come up with the product.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: What does movie star know about skin?
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: So we need to go beyond that.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: We need to go to the science, and I think the methodologists carry on their back a huge responsibility in educating the public and have a powerful influence on the media to deliver the proper information.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: When I created the skin classification, for example, my skin classification, it was not because uh I just want to create something.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: No, it's because we needed something go beyond Fitzpatrick that depends on skin color.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: It's not a skin classification.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: So I created my skin classification based on color, thickness, oiliness, and uh fragility.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: So the things that's really important for us.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: So if I need, let's say I thick skin, somebody has thick skin.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: Thick skin is rich with collagen and elastin and makes skin more suitable and uh palatable to do any procedure safely.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: However, thin skin, on the other hand, is very risky skin.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: It will not respond to the same.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Depth as you do with the procedure.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: So the doctor knows have to know how deep he goes in thick skin and in thick thin skin.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: Patients with oily skin, when they do laser or peel, in general have a higher rate of complication of acne flare up or zessia flare up and more damaged texture than people who have normal, not oily skin.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: So controlling the oiliness sebum before and after procedure will improve the results of the procedure.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Thick skin age by dropping down, jowling, deep fold.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: Thin skin age by wrinkling at early stage.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: So knowing these features enable us to really do a much safer treatment, treatment protocol.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: For thick skin, I'm not going to say I want to make a thick skin.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: Nope.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: For thick skin, we have to restore more elasticity back to the skin, because that's the first element in thick skin that damage with age.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Collagen will damage at much slower rate compared to the elasticity.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: In thin skin, collagen and elastic get damaged at early stage because the skin is very thin.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: So knowing that when I put a patient on a program of ZO and I titled the stimulation, in thick skin, I will tell him, okay, you have to use the aggressive program to stimulate the skin to a deeper level.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: In thick skin, I may go moderately aggressive and achieve the same results.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: So that's also helped me in selecting treatment.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Then I created also the concept of safe depth in the skin.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: For a dermatologist, if you understand there's epidermis, and the epidermis, there is a papillary dermis, then there is a reticular dermis.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: The feature of the papillary dermis, if you do your peel and TCA peel, let's say, and you reach the papillary dermis, what's going to happen is that you are going to stimulate elasticity of the skin, renew the epidermis, and skin will be tighter.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: So I call papillary dermis level a tightening procedure.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: If you go below the papillary dermis to the connection with the upper reticular dermis, I call that the immediate reticular dermis IRD, then you are leveling.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: So you are actually removing more irregularities on the skin surface and some tightening.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: People have to also know that laser does not provide tightening.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: Yes, you may get temporary from the heat, uh, uh uh radio frequency and stuff like that, some tightness, but that's not tightening of protein, and that makes it tighter.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: However, to restore normal collagen tightness, a peel to the papillary dermis will be much superior to laser resurfacing.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: To do leveling, laser resurfacing produce superior to the peel because it can evaporate hard tissue and rough tissue and smooth tissue and hard tissue.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: However, I created a combined procedure where I do the peel first, then the CO2 fracture second to evaporate.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: So I combine leveling and tightening.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: And tightening.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: And you saw the result in the meeting.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean the the pictures are unbelievable.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: I I'm gonna show you this because I have it on my desk, is your book.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: This is edition two, I think, but you've got edition three coming up.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: But for anybody who's not seen this book, this is where all of this information is, and the photographs, a lot of your photographs are in the book as well.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: And the before and after pictures are nothing short of like incredible using this combination.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: And I love the way you use your skin typing, which is really based more on form and function than any other skin typing that we talk about, but you use that skin typing to help guide the way you use procedures.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: And it's really so uh innovative.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: And I think it it's the reason that you get the kind of results that you see in these photographs we have in in the textbook.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: When will the next edition of the book be out?
26:25
SPEAKER_01: That's coming soon.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: It's a big textbook, and it's got a lot of information in here, and I think consumers can also read this book and get a lot of good information from it.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: And you know, my my golden objective, I'm very happy that I have helped thousands and thousands of plastic surgeons and dermatologists in understanding skin and adapting to my philosophy of skin health science and skin health restoration all over the world.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: And I still feel I am only one person.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: I cannot do everything.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: I feel that we obligated to our patients to provide them with the best, best, best of skin care and treatment.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: The concepts, how can we tackle the poisoned mind by so much commercialism and marketing for different varieties of products?
27:25
SPEAKER_01: I tell people, you have to understand that there's a million products on the skin.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: You can't you're so confused to choose which one is good for you.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: Avoid that and learn one thing.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: Ask yourself, is this product gonna help me help my skin restore healthy elements and to back to my skin?
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Is this product gonna be let's say ethically stop aging changes and really can help do because if if you don't go ask your dermatologist?
28:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, as we know, so many people don't have access to dermatologic care these days.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: And that puts them, it puts them unfortunately at a disadvantage.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: The nice thing about being able to do virtual consults, I think, is that you can help a lot of people that way who maybe don't have you know access.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: Virtual consults would be a way to reach almost everybody.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: I think you should promote that.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: You should you should you should.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're we're seeing a lot more, you know, dermatologists use it.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's just great, especially for acne patients and younger patients who they really boy, there's such a push right now to sell and market to these young kids.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: I mean, even the teenagers and the tweens, it's unbelievable all over social media and also on television.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: Major consumer ants going at very young targets.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: And I mean it's it's a challenge.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, the other thing dermatologists have to know and patients have to know.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: We never tell our patient when he is gonna look good.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: We never tell the patient, you are you're gonna have what you ask you, the patient asks you how long I should be using this, how long it would take my acne to go away.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: I created a parameter.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: If we can renew the skin in a proper way, I will tell my patient in three months your acne will be gone.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: I did not cure you, but your acne will be gone.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: But if you follow a maintenance after that to prevent it from cooling, then you can keep it away.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: The timing is so important because we know it takes six weeks for a keratinocyte from the basal cell to stratum corneum and exfoliate, we call that skin maturation cycle.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: We need a free skin maturation cycle, three, six weeks, I will renew the skin.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: And anybody, black, white, Asian.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: So in skin health science and skin health rejuvenation, there's no discrimination.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: All skin is skin.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: You said at the early stage that I was a pioneer in doing spiel on black skin, dark skin, Indian skin, complex skin.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: So why is that?
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Is that because I have a concept?
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Before we do procedure on any skin, we have to make that skin in a shape that will respond in a better way to the procedure.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: So I call the process skin conditioning.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: So I don't do procedure on patient on demand.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: When the patient comes in and I know they say I need a laser or a peel or whatever I want to do, I will condition them for six weeks.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: What happens when I condition them for six weeks is that I restore the barrier function that will make skin stronger, I will restore natural hydration, that makes skin much respond better to laser, because laser chromophore is water, and the acid chromophore is water.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: If you don't restore hydration, the devices will work as hot iron, will destroy the skin.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: So this skin conditioning made all skin types fit in one skin type, healthy skin.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: So no matter what your skin type, if I make it healthy, it's healthy skin.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Regardless if you're black or white or Asian or whatever it is.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: So that concept is also what enabled me to do all skin types safely and achieve the result I want, with minimizing complications.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: We cannot make complications and procedures, but we can minimize them to maximum by knowing steps and by knowing what procedure to use, looking at mechanism of action of the procedure, not selecting a procedure based on its popularity.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: No, what the mechanism of action.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: So this discussion can take days if we're gonna hold up for it.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: We can we can have a glass of wine and finish this one, that's for sure, because I know you have a lot to say.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: I I really think your legacy, besides all your innovative work in skincare, is going to be really as being a forward thinker.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: And and I think looking at things in a slightly different way than most of our colleagues look at them, and in a slightly different way on the other side to the way we were actually taught.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really important for us to be open to new ideas and new views.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: I love your skin typing.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: And like I said, all of that is in your book, and I look forward to seeing the next edition.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: I knew we were gonna go over time and we're not too far over time, but I want to thank you for joining me because we've been trying to schedule this interview for a while, and you're so busy, and I've been busy, so I'm so glad that we finally met and we're able to do this.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: And I want to tell anybody who has an opportunity to see Dr.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: Obaji on the podium anywhere to make sure that you do that, because all of this really comes to life with the photographs, with the before and after pictures, with just your passion for all the work that you've done, really.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: It's it's contagious, it's infectious.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: I think everybody in the room will be uh a believer when they finish hearing your talk.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for joining me.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: I know everybody's gonna really enjoy this episode.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: If you have any questions, you can certainly leave questions for us.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: And Dr.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: Obachi, thank you for giving me so much of your time on I'm sure what's a lovely day in California.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: And I hope I'll see you along the road soon.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much, and I appreciate all the work you do.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: You are a great dermatologist, and and I hope I hope that you will be also an influential factor in enlightening the public about everything.