Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Murder of Ellie Gould

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The Murder of Ellie Gould · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: On May third, twenty nineteen, a seventeen year old girl
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: was sitting home alone studying for her approaching exams when
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: someone she knew arrived knocking at her front door. It
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: was her ex boyfriend. Then later, her father returned home
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: to find her dead in the family kitchen, while the
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: person responsible had already begun trying to erase the evidence
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and create a false story about what had happened. What
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: followed was a rapidly unfolding murder investigation that uncovered the
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: truth behind the brutal death of a teenager who had
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: just ended her first serious relationship only hours before she died.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: This is the story of Ellie Gould.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: and Grim, a.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: True crime podcast following yes material more mature audience.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Listen. I think that I'm allergic to the city that
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: we live in.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: There's a good chance you're going to cough up along
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: this morning. I know.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the deal is, because I feel
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: like allergy season should be pretty well done, should be
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: as you're pouring coffee, spilling it everywhere?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Was I spilling ship? I did, damn it?
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: And when I was in the oak andag and I
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: was like, quite fine, but I cannot survive in this
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: city without having to take allergy meds daily. But it
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: may be it's something else. I think it's like our
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: air or something. We have terrible air quality.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Well, we also do have two huskies that are in
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: full on shed at the moment, and we live in
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a tiny home, so it could be dog dander as well.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Just saying I guess.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: But no, I'm not allergic to dogs. Dogs are perfect.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Even if I was allergic to dogs, I would just suffer.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Oh that's you gotta suffer through that. Dogs are life, man.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Dogs are life. Mad.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Dogs are life man.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Did you kind of do that in a Matthew McConaughey voice.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I didn't mean to, okay, because.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: That's what it reminded me of for some reason.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Uh, all right, all right, all right, dogs are life man.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I can't do it to Matthew McConaughey impression. That was
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: my best attempt. Don't ask me to do it again.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, he's written I don't know if I've talked about
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: this before, but he's written a book and he I'm
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: a huge like audio book listener, just because I listen
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: while I'm editing and stuff, and he, uh, he voices
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: his audio book. Holy shit, it's good. Honestly, it's just
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: worth listening to because of like, he does have a
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: good voice. He's a good voice.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah he does. He's got like an amazing voice. Yeah.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: And is this like his memoir up It's Green Lights, Yes, yes, yes, yes,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: oh interesting.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: It's good. And the fact that he voices it, I think,
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: like honestly just makes it that much better.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: That's really cool. I think, honestly, more authors of books
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: need to try and voice their own books.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I understand it's a little bit difficult. Not everyone can
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: do it, but if you can, I think you should try.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean I guess some people would just
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: maybe they don't have the patience or they get I
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: could even see some authors like being too attached or something,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: and they don't want to because it would never they
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: would never be able to voice it, you know, the
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: way that they think it should be portrayed, or yeah.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Doing it just as they're a writer, not a voice
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: actor and leave it to professionals. Sure, I get it, Yeah,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: but especially when it comes to something like a memoir
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: like that, I think someone should at least consider trying
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: it themselves.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I'm sure with him, it probably wasn't even a question.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, probably not. It was probably like, hey, I wrote
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: this book, we should get published. Oh, sure, we'll get
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: it published. Matthew McConaughey, do you want to have an
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: audiobook done? Do you want to voice it yourself? And
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: he probably like yeah, all right, all right, all right.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Well yeah. It was also like you're voicing it, right,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: not in a question, Yeah, like you're doing that.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So it was like you're voicing it. He's like,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: all right, all right, all right, calm down.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Anyways, we did not did start the show talking about
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: No Funny.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: For the record, this is definitely not a book sponsored segment.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: That's nothing to do with that. We're just going off
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: on a tangent for some weird reason. But we should
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: actually get into the actual episode rather than talking about
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Matthew McConaughey.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does sound. I don't know these ones, but
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: I am very interested to hear this story. But it
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: sounds rough.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: To quote Nicole, these ones, Oh is that what you're you're.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Going well, because they're sort of I'm thinking I don't
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: know anything about this, but it feels like it might
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: be a bit relatable. I suppose.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, but that's that was my quote. That's your quote
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: of the day. This one that should be on a
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: T shirt.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Shut in. That doesn't even make sense, doesn't even exactly
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: it could be good or bad.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Actually, this one.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: No, that sounds daunting. It's more of a daunting response.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Well, this is a daunting case.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Well, it is a true crime podcast. I would expect none.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Nonetheless, Oh we are wreck this morning. Anyways, let's get
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: into the story of Ellie Gould. This is this is
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: one that deals with I mean, technically they're kids. They're
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: just on the verge becoming adults. They're older teenagers, so
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: heads up on that if kids do bother you. But yeah,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: with that being said, let's get into it. Ellie Rose
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Gould was born on February sixth, two thousand and two,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: and she grew up in Colney, a market town surrounded
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: by the countryside of Wiltshire, England. She lived with her parents,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Carol and Matt Gould, and grew up close with their
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: older brother, grandparents and even the extended family. One of
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: her cousins was born only a month after Ellie was
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: and the two girls developed a very particularly close relationship,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: growing up more like sisters than they were cousins. From
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: an early age, Ellie was known for being independent, determined,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: and exceptionally caring towards the people around her. As she
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: grew older, she developed a very large circle of friends too,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: but those closest to her remembered her more than simply
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: how popular she had become. See Ellie paid attention to
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: other people. If someone was upset or felt excluded from
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: the group, she noticed, and she made a very big
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: effort to include them now. Because of that, among her friends,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: she was sometimes described as the glue that held everyone together.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Animals were another important part in Ellie's life. When she
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: was young, her family regularly took her to farms where
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: she could go and hold chickens and rabbits and help
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: feed younger animals, and eventually that general love of animals
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: developed into a particular passion for horses. Soon Ellie became
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: a very talented and enthusiastic writer who competed in local
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: shows and cross country events. Her beloved pony was named Blackjack,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: and during the summer months, she could spend hours riding
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: along with him through the Wiltshire countryside. Now Ellie's family
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: described her as something of a perfectionist who had put
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: everything that she had into anything that she wanted to accomplish,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: whether she was preparing for equestrian competitions or completing an
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: assignment for school. By her teenage years, she was attending
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Harden Hush School in Chippenham, which was approximately ten miles
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: from her home in Colney. She had been a student
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: there since year seven and eventually entered the school sixth form,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: where she was preparing for her A levels. Ellie was
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: popular and outgoing, but again, the people who remembered her
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: focused on the small ways she treated those around her.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Even students who had not known her particularly well remembered
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Ellie smiling at them as they passed the corridors with her.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: She was always someone who was funccasionally quirky, and genuinely
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: interested in the happiness of the people who were around her.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Outside school, Ellie's life was becoming increasingly more and more busy.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: She was learning to drive. She had started working as
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: a waitress for the National Trust and continued riding and
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: competing with horses while studying and like many teenagers approaching
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: the end of school, She was also beginning to think
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: seriously about what she was going to be doing next.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: University was one very real possibility, Although Ellie had not
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: completely decided what career she wanted to pursue for a time,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: she became interested in joining the police, with a mounted division,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: holding a very obvious appeal for someone who had spent
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of time around horses like she had. She
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: had also developed an interest in criminal investigations and enjoyed
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: watching documentaries about real true crime cases. At one point,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: she even told her mother that she wanted to become
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: a police officer and solve investigations herself. At seventeen years old, however,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: there was no reason for Ellie to have her entire
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: your future planned out. She was studying, working, learning to drive,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: riding Blackjack, spending time with her friends and family, and
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: considering the many possibilities available to her after she was
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: leaving school.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Well, shit, she sounds fucking perfect.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: She's a gem of a human being.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everything you said there, I was just almost shaking
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: my head because why is it always like the good ones,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: you know that get taken like so young like this?
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Because she probably would have just freaking conquered the goddamn.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: World probably, And to be honest, it seems like a
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: lot of people they prey on people who have good
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: in them for whatever reason. Maybe it's they take advantage
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: of the person being nice to them and that's what
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: allows these kind of people to get closer to them,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: or maybe there's some sort of conflict inside where they're
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: attracted to these people and like, I need to snuff
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: out this flame because I hate that in them, because
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I'm different. I don't know, there's a bajillion different and
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I'm saying bajillion as an actual real number, even though
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: it's not. There's a bajillion different reasons on why they
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: could be targeted.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it could even just be as simple
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: as like jealousy too, right for sure.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Now, in this situation, it's very obvious exactly why she
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: was targeted, and jealousy might be part of it. Now,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: by the beginning of twenty nineteen, another person had also
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: begun taking some more attention in her life, and that
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: person was Thomas Griffiths. Now, Thomas was a fellow student
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: at Harden Hush School, and he and Ellie were not
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: strangers by any means. They had attended the same school
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: since he year seven, and according to one of Ellie's friends,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: they had been you know, kind of an on and
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: off connection sort of situation between the two of them
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: during year ten and year eleven. Ellie had apparently been
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: interested in Thomas for quite some time, but the two
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: had never developed a serious relationship or anything. However, that
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: changed in January of twenty nineteen, see Thomas asked Ellie
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: to actually become his girlfriend. It was official, and she
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: returned home excited to tell her mother all about it.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Carol asked who the boy was and how Ellie knew him,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: and Ellie explained that Thomas was a friend with some
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: boys that she knew from school. Thomas was also seventeen
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: years old and lived with his family in darry Hill,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: a village a few miles away from Colney, where Ellie lived.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: He was regarded as an excellent student. He was a
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: person who competed in swimming at the country international level,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: even which was not exactly a low level sort of
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: situation in the sport. He also played rugby at a
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: country level and would eventually even be made a school prefect.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: He had also completed his Duke of Edinburgh Award and
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: worked part time at a supermarket called Iceland. Now Thomas
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: was quieter and less outgoing than Ellie was, but still
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: the relationship between the two developed, and for Ellie the
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: beginning of the relationship was extremely exciting, and although her parents,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Carol and Matt, were not convinced that he and her
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: daughter were a particularly well matched couple, they welcomed him
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: into their home and made an effort to get to
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: know him. Thomas began spending time with the Gould family.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Carolyn Matt had him inside to eat meals with them,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: and they all celebrated Ellie's seventeenth birthday together in February,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: and Thomas joined the family in many of these situations,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: you know, trying to get to know each other, bringing
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: them in. But it didn't take long, however, for Ellie
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: to notice things about Thomas that she started to find strange.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Only a few days after their relationship, for example, Ellie
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: told her mother that Thomas had been talking about his
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: family owning two different holiday homes, one supposedly in Leam, Regis,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: which is in England, or another one that was a
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: villa in New yorka Spain now. Thomas had even shown
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Ellie photos of the property in Spain, which apparently included
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: a swimming pool, but Ellie seriously doubted this story. At
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the time, however, there was little reason to view this
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: white lie as anything particularly concerning. Thomas was a seventeen
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: year old boy. After all, he's in a new relationship,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: and it appeared he might just simply be exaggerating some
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: of his family's wealth to try and impress his new.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Girlfriend, right, trying to show off.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Exactly, and teenagers can be a bit odd like that,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: sometimes they can. As Ellie's birthday approached in February, Thomas
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: also began talking about spending a large amount of money
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: on her present. He worked part time and told Ellie
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: that he intended to spend quote loads of money on
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: her birthday. But rather than being impressed by this gesture,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Ellie felt uncomfortable. The relationship was still very new, and
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: she knew that she wasn't going to be able to
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: afford the same amount of money or spending that much
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: on him when his birthday came around. Thomas also appeared
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: to be thinking about their future together much sooner than
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Ellie expected, Within only a few weeks of becoming a couple.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: He reportedly began talking about the idea of one day
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: getting married or having kids and that sort of thing,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: But those conversations were far removed from the things occupying
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Ellie's mind. She was seventeen. She's trying to balance her studies,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: her work, her her horses, her family, her large circle
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: of friends. She was considering universities, possibilities of careers, and
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: although she'd been excited to begin dating Thomas, she was
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: not looking at the relationship with the same long term
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: expectations that he appeared to have, and more problems began
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: developing when Thomas appeared to expect an increasing amount of
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Ellie's time as well. One disagreement occurred when Ellie was
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: preparing to meet a group of friends who attended another school.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Thomas reportedly called after her and demanded to know where
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: she was going, but Ellie explained her plans. He insisted
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: that she was supposed to be coming over to his
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: house though because his mother was buying food especially for her. However,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Ellie was certain she never agreed to these plans to
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: visit him. When she later told her mother about the incident,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: she thought that you know, there must be a misunderstanding
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: that Ellie forgot or you know, someone crossed wires in
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: the conversation, but Ellie said that she knew what she
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: agreed to and going to Thomas's house that day was
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: not a part of her plans, so Ellie stood her
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: ground on it. However, the incident became just one of
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: several moments that left her increasingly frustrated within the relationship.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Another one occurred to roughly ten weeks after they began dating.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Ellie had decided that she wanted to spend a Saturday
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: evening at home with her mother. Throughout the evening, Thomas
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: repeatedly contacted her through Snapchat and tried to persuade her
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: to leave home and come over to his house instead.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's not abnormal, that's teenage behavior. But by
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the following day, Carol could see that the situation upset
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: her daughter. Then Thomas even unexpectedly arrived at their home.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Carol and Ellie had been preparing to go out for
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: a walk when he appeared and asked Carol whether he
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: could complete work experience at her kitchen and bathroom company. Now,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: the request itself was not particularly unusual, and Carol explained
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: that the business probably didn't have enough work available to
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: keep him occupied for an extended placement, although she did
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: suggest that he might be able to spend at least
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: a day there or something get some experience. It was
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: only after Thomas left that Carol learned why Ellie became
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: so surprised and upset by the conversation. See Ellie had
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: specifically talked to Thomas already about this, and she asked
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: him not to approach her mother about the work experience,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: but it seems Thomas ignored her request and did it anyways.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: It was frustrating, to say the least, and Ellie was
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: unhappy that Thomas had disregarded that she asked him to
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: do something. As spring continued and demands for school increased,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: the amount of time Thomas was expecting from Ellie became
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: a larger problem. Her A level studies were important to her,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: and with exam's approaching, she needed more time to study.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Ellie even told Thomas that because of this, they would
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: have to spend less time together right now, she needed
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: to continue her work at school and study, and they
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: could continue seeing each other in the evenings after school sometimes,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: but just not nearly as much, but Thomas was not
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: happy with this. For Ellie, however, the issue had become
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: larger than the amount of time she needed to study.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: She was beginning to feel that the relationship was taking
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: up too much of her life. According to her friends,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: she worried that she would eventually look back on her
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: teenage years and regret spending so much time tied down
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: with a relationship like this, and by late April, Ellie
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: was openly discussing her frustrations with people closest to her.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: She told friends about disagreements and the pressures she felt
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: spending more time with Thomas. She also spoke with her
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: mom frequently and kind of vented and discussed, and her
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: mom just watched a relationship change during the previous three months.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: It wasn't the same as when it started. Then the
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: situation finally came to a head on Thursday, May Tewid
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. That day, Ellie was spending time with friends
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: in the common room at school. The group was messing
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: around a bit and throwing some sweets in the air
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: and trying to catch him with their mouths. When Ellie
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: went to join in and do the same, but Thomas
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: tried to yank her back and prevent her from participating. Now,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Ellie immediately objected with him being physical like that, telling
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: him to get off of her. She followed up by saying,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: if you wanted to join in the group's fun, he
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: could do so, but if he didn't, then she wasn't
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: going to allow him to stop her from spending time
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: with her friends like this. Later that evening, Ellie spoke
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: with her mother about the relationship. Carol told her daughter
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: that Thomas appeared becoming a bit more controlling and overbearing
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: with her, and she warned her that she didn't want
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: to be with someone who behaved that way. And Ellie,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: while she told her mom that she had already reached
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: that same conclusion, saying, quote, I know, mom, I'm going
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: to sort it end quote.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Well, honestly, I have to agree, like at seventeen, the
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: relationship should honestly be nothing more than fun. And this
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: seems like it's kind of a bit aggressive.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Almost, Yeah, it definitely does. There's already controlling going on,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: there's overstepping h and it's taking up time in individuals'
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: lives that it shouldn't be. When you're saying like it
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: should be more fun, you're right, but it's almost seeing
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: like it's work.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that she doesn't want to do. I love how
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: she has such like a clear, you know, goals in
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: her head and like very good boundaries about.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Her Oh, yeah, for sure, which is not normal for
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: someone of the teenage age. Usually there are heads kind
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: of in the clouds. But with her, she's very grounded.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's a good way of putting it. Very grounded,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: and he is not meeting the expectations of a person
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: that deserves to be in her life.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: No, I agree now. That evening, Ellie contacted Thomas through
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Snapchat and she told him that she wanted to take
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: a break from the relationship, but Thomas didn't take that
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: decision well. He tried to persuade Ellie to reconsider, reportedly
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: insisting that they needed to be, you know, in each
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: other's lives they loved each other, but Ellie remained firm. Afterwards,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: she spoke with one friend over FaceTime, and her mother, Carol,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: said that her daughter seemed happy after ending the relationship,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: as though she was relieved to have finally dealt with
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: something that was being on her mind and troubling her
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: for weeks. The following morning, Friday, May third, twenty nineteen,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: began quietly at the Gold family home on Springfield Drive,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: but that's not how it would end. That morning, Ellie
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: didn't have any lessons scheduled, which meant she could remain
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: at home and spend several hours studying for her approaching exams. Later,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: her close friend Ellie Welling which I'll be calling her
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Welling because Ellie and Ellie so Ellie Welling was planning
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: to meet her around noon. The two girls were going
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: to go to school together for history lesson. Now, Carol
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: was preparing to leave for work when she saw her
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: daughter in the kitchen eating cereal. She said her goodbyes
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: and left for work, leaving her daughter home alone, now
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: several miles away. At the same time, Thomas's day was
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: also being His mother drove him to school and dropped
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: him off as usual. Thomas then walked up and entered
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: the school, but at some point that morning he began
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: asking other students where Ellie was, and he learned that
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: she wasn't there, that she was at home. She was
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: expected to arrive around lunchtime for her first class. In
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: that moment, Thomas knew that she was at home alone
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: on Springfield Drive. Shortly after, he told his teachers that
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: he wasn't feeling well, and he left the school grounds
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: without visiting the school nurse or calling his parents. Instead,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: he made his way to a nearby bus stop. CCTV
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: footage would later show him waiting there before boarding bus
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: number thirty three towards dairy Hill. At the time, he
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: was wearing a black sweatshirt and white shoes. And once
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Thomas arrived in dairy Hill, his phone connected to the
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Wi Fi router at his family home, creating an electronic
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: record of his return home. But what happened next would
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: only become important after investigators began reconstructing his movements. See,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Thomas was home, but he changed his clothes. He removed
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: his black sweatshirt and white trainer's shoes and put on
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: a black hoodie with black canvas fans. Then, approximately at
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: ten forty five am, his mother unexpectedly returned to the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: house while he was still there. Now Thomas quickly hid
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: inside his wardrobe in his bedroom and stayed there until
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: his mother left again. Then, once she was gone, he
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: came out took some keys to his mother's Ford Fiesta vehicle.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Now Thomas couldn't legally drive, but that didn't stop him.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Just before eleven a m. He left dairy Hill behind
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: the wheel and beginning traveling towards Colney, which is where
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Ellie lived. Now, the drive between his home and Elly's
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: was relatively short. A neighbor in the area would later
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: remember seeing a young man approaching the Gold property that
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: morning who was dressed in dark clothing, had his hood up,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: and was carrying a rucksack. The young man didn't attend
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: to climb through a window though, where forces waned the house.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: He simply walked to the front door and knocked, and
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened. At approximately ten fifty three am,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Thomas arrived, knocked on the door, and Ellie opened up
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: and led him inside. For nearly the next hour, nobody
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: outside the house knew what was happening inside there Ellie's
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: friend Welling. Ellie Welling was still expecting to bring her
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: friend to school around noon before the planned pickup. However,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: she received a message from Ellie's phone telling her that
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the ride was no longer needed, So she accepted that
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Ellie no longer needed that ride, and that was that.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Then at approximately eleven fifty one am. Nearly an hour
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: after arriving, Thomas left her home on Springfield Drive. He
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: got back into the Fort Fiesta, drove towards his home
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: in dairy Hill once again, and when he arrived home,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Thomas actually had fresh scratches around his face and his neck.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: He changed out of his clothes that he had worn
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: and some of those items were put through the washing machine.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Over the course of the afternoon, Thomas began offering explanations
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: for his injuries around his face and neck and messages
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: to friends. He claimed that he'd been struggling with anxiety
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: from being under pressures approaching exams and an ill family member.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: He said that the scratches around his face were something
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: that he did himself. He had also mentioned in messages
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: to friends that he and Ellie were actually going on
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: a break and that he had recently been feeling anxious
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: and nervous. Quote me and Ellie going on a break.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: But I've been so anxious and nervous lately. End quote quote,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I've been kind of hurting myself by scratching my neck
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: quite hard. End quote.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: After leaving school earlier that morning, because he supposedly felt ill,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Thomas actually returned to school and visited the nurse again,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: presenting the scratches as injuries that he caused himself. Ultimately,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: his mother was contacted and she came to collect him.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Then later, at approximately three pm, Matt Gould, Ellie's dad,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: returned home and Ellie's small red car was still parked outside.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Matt came inside, walked into the kitchen, put his phone
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: and wallet down, then walked around the island in the
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: family's kitchen, and then that's when he saw his daughter
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: laying on the floor. His first thought though, was that
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Ellie must have fallen. He only saw her legs at first,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: but as he moved closer moving around the island, that's
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: when he saw the amount of blood that had pooled
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: around her. Matt rushed over and touched his daughter with
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: an outreached hand and called out her name, and that's
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: when he felt just how cold she was. He immediately
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: called emergency services and the operator attempted to guide him
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: through what he needed to do next, you know, for
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: CPR or first aid or anything, but the condition in
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: which Ellie was found in made the situation extraordinarily difficult
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: for him, and Matt soon ran to a neighbor for help,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: but it didn't take long for emergency personnel to make
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: it to the scene. However, there was nothing anyone could
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: do to save Ellie. The seventeen year old had already
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: been dead for several hours. Matt now faced the task
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: of contacting his wife, and when he phoned Carol at work,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: he was so distressed he struggled to explain what he
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: had found. Rather than telling her that Ellie was dead,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: he repeatedly said that their daughter had quote had an
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: accident and warned Carol to be careful while driving home.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Now Carol could not understand exactly what he meant. She
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: knew her husband disliked the sight of blood, and her
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: first thought was Ellie might have badly cut herself and
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Matt had panicked after seeing the injury. She tried to
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: get a clearer explanation from him, but he was simply
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: unable to properly describe what had happened. He couldn't put
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: it into words, he couldn't get it out. Carol left
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: work and began driving towards their home, and along the
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: way she saw emergency vehicles traveling the same direction as her,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: but even then she didn't fully understand the seriousness of
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: what was waiting for her at home. It was only
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: when she reached their house and she saw the police vehicles,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: the ambulance and Matt outside the property that it hit
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: and soon she learned that their daughter was dead.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Holy frick, that is just so sad.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: That's heart wrenching.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, why would she even, Like, I don't think
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: she would go to that, right, him phoning her and
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: not being able to get it out. She's not gonna
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: think her daughter's dead because her daughter is like a
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: seventeen year old thriving you know, gal, Well, why would you.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Jump to that conclusion? Right? You might think, oh my god,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: someone broke a leg or cut themselves. Like you don't
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: it's going to be okay, though you don't think immediately death.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: You don't jump that. That's a huge gap to go.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: To, like we can fix this kind of thing, Like
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: all come home and.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: We'll fix this exactly now. As they struggle to understand
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: what had happened, police officers began securing the property. Ellie
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: had been found behind the Central Island with several injuries
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: around her neck, and there was a large amount of
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: blood at the scene. A knife also remained with her,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: and one of her hands had been positioned on the handle. Now,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: at the scene of the murder, parts of the kitchen
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: had appeared to have been disturbed. Some of the blood
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: had been smeared across some surfaces rather than simply leftward,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: had fallen or splattered or anything like that. The kitchen
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: sink appeared to have been used. In fact, a tea
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: towel and other cleaning materials that should have been inside
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: the house were missing, and the condition of the scene
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: suggested that whoever had attacked Ellie may have remained inside
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: the property afterwards and attempted to remove evidence before leaving. Now,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: the position of the knife itself created another immediate concern.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Ellie's hand appeared to have been deliberately placed on the handle,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: suggesting an attempt to make her injuries look self inflicted,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: But the severity and the location of the injuries just
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: didn't support that explanation, and honestly, nothing else in the
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: situation either. It was clearly staged.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Honestly, that pisses me off. I agree that he positioned
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: a knife in her hand.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh. Now, there was also signs that Ellie had
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: fought against whoever had attacked her. Abrasions were visible on
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: her hands and elbows, providing investigators with an early indication
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: that a physical struggle had taken place inside the kitchen.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Now there was one more important detail. Investigators could find
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: no obvious evidence that anyone forced their way into the house.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: The windows were intact, the rear door remained locked. There
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: was nothing suspicious, so the possibility that Ellie had known
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: her attacker and willingly allowed the person inside became one
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: of the first avenues detectives explored. While forensic specialists began
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the careful process of examining the home, Carol and Matt
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: were taken to the police station. Their investigators began asking
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: questions about Ellie's life. They wanted to know about her friends,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: her movements, the people she spent time with, and anyone
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: who might have reason to visit the house. For Ellie's parents,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: the questions were difficult to comprehend. They had only just
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: learned that their daughter was dead. Now they were being
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: asked to think through every part of her life in
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: search of someone who might have wanted to hurt and
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: kill her. Investigators also began speaking with neighbors and anyone
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: who might have seen unusual activity around Springfield Drive that morning,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and one of those conversations quickly produced an important detail.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: A neighbor remembered seeing a young man approach the home
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: dressed in dark clothing with his hood raised. He walked
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: directly to the front door, knocked, and was let in.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Now this was huge, and detectives knew they needed to
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: find who this individual was, and those answers began to emerge.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: As investigators spoke with Ellie's friends, they learned that Ellie
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: had been in a relationship for approximately three months, and
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: then it had ended only the previous evening. Her friends
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: explained that Ellie had wanted more time to concentrate on
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: her school and had become unhappy with the amount of
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: attention her boyfriend was expecting from her. They also told
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: investigators something else, Thomas Griffiths had not taken the breakup
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: very well. As investigators continued speaking with Ellie's friends, they
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: also learned about the arrangement that she had made with
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Ellie Welling. Now Welling had planned to give Ellie a
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: ride to school around noon, but before she arrived, she
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: received a message from her phone saying she no longer
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: needed that ride. Now the thing is detectives knew that
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Ellie would likely have already have been dead by the
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: time that message was sent, so it seems like someone
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: may have used her phone to prevent anyone from coming
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: to see the crime scene. Later on May third, Thomas
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: was found at a friend's house in Colney, and when
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: officers arrived, they immediately noticed fresh injuries around his face
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: and neck, just as he had told people earlier that afternoon.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Though Thomas claimed he had caused the scratch himself because
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: he was anxious and under pressure, but investigators also noticed
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: something unusual about his reaction to their arrival. According to
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Detective Chief Inspector Jim Taylor, Thomas appeared to understand exactly
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: why the officers wanted to speak with him. See he
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: apparently asked if they were there about his girlfriend when.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: They arrived, just like that, right away.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But then he denied ever seeing her.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, of course he did.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Thomas, of course, was arrested on suspicion of murder and
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: taken into custody, where his injuries around his face and
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: neck were photographed. Officers continued watching his behavior during the
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: booking process and noticed that he repeatedly touched and scratched
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: at his hands and face and neck, likely as means
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: of trying to give reason for the injuries, but that's
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: just my opinion. His clothing and footwear were seized and
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: forensic samples were taken so they could try and compare
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: what they were finding with evidence recovered from the murder
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: scene at Springfield Drive. Detectives then began questioning him about
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: his whereabouts that day. Thomas flat out denied killing Ellie.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: He also denied visiting her home too. According to the
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: accounts he gave investigators, he had arrived at school that morning,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: began to feel unwell, returned to his family home in
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Dairy Hill. Then he claimed that he had spent the
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: morning studying. Now to check to see if his story
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: was true, the easiest place to begin was his school.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Investigators confirmed that Thomas's mother had dropped him off that morning,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: but they also learned that he had been asking other
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: students where Ellie was and discovered that she was studying
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: at home alone. Then, shortly after, Thomas told his teachers
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: that he felt ill and left school. The CCTV footage
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: showed detectives part of his journey. Thomas was recorded waiting
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: for a bus then boarded bus number thirty three towards
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: darry Hill. Now this evidence actually appeared to support at
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: least part of what he told police. That he left
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: school and went home, and when Thomas arrived at his
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: family home, his cell phone connected to his household WiFi router,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: which again matched his account. Then Thomas claimed he just
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: remained home studying, but if that was true, the electronic
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: records from his phone should have continued to support it,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: but it didn't. Now, shortly before eleven am, Thomas's phone
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: disconnected from the family WiFi and it remained disconnected for
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: approximately one hour before returning to the network. So investigators
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: now had a significant gap in the account that Thomas
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: had given them and the timing while it corresponded with
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: the period in which Ellie had been killed. So police
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: began searching for evidence that could establish how he had
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: traveled away from his home. More CCTV footage from the
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: camera mounted on a bus had soon shown a recording
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: of a Ford Fiesta traveling through the area, and investigators
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: identified it as the vehicle belonging to Thomas's family. Thomas
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: had not yet asked his driving test and could not
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: legally drive the car alone, but the footage showed that
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: the vehicle had been used during the same period in
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: which his phone was disconnected from the family WiFi. By
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: combining the electronic records with the CCTV footage and the
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: witness statements, detectives began reconstructing a very different version of
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: events that Thomas had told them. Now, one interesting question
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: couldn't be answered by detectives. How would Thomas have returned
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: the message to Ellie Welling? The message was from Ellie's
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: phone and it said that she didn't need a ride anymore,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: so how could he have unlocked her phone? Well exactly
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: how the phone was accessed could not be conclusively established,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: but Ellie's mother, Carol, she believes that Thomas may have
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: used Ellie's finger after she died to unlock the phone
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: using her fingerprint.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Which isn't really surprising. But how would he even know
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: that the friend was going to be picking her up?
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Might have talked to her maybe before killing her. Maybe
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: he went through her phone found the messages. I don't know, Okay,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: we have no idea how he got onto the phone,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: how he knew that or anything, but where.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: It's pretty clear that she was not alive when that
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: message was sent.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, Investigators believed that she had already been deceased when
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: the message was.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Sent, So, I mean, it's not far fetched to think
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: that he would have just used her finger.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and why would she have sussing, why would she
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: have even sent that message in the first place. She
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: was planning on going to school, she got classes, she's
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: studying for her exams. She's taking this seriously. Yeah, there's
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: no reason that she's going to be skipping.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: No, not at all now.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: When the evidence. What the evidence did show, though, was
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: that the cancelation message had been sent during that period
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: that Thomas was also inside the home. It was clear
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: Thomas's original story was collapsing, but investigators still needed to
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: establish what happened during that missing hour. The first answers
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: came from the post mortem examination of Ellie. The evidence
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: showed that the confrontation inside the home had become physical
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: before a knife was ever involved. They found that significant
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: pressure had been applied to Ellie's neck, leaving her incapacitated
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: and unconscious. Investigators concluded that Thomas attempted to strangle her
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: during the attack, but Ellie had fought back. The abrasions
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: on her hands and elbows were consistent with her struggle,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: while the scratches around Thomas's face were consistent with it too.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: But once she was likely unconscious, Thomas then would have
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: used a kitchen knife to inflict at least thirteen stab wounds,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: primarily to her neck and face. Jeez, it was a
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: clear frenzied attack.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: This is just so messed up that like a seventeen
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: year old boy would be doing this after a three
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: month relationship. It's just it is actually maybe not relatable
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: at all and doesn't make any sense.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: It's definitely not a relatable situation. Yeah, but imagine if
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: this individual was married and was in a relationship for
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: years and there was kids involved, financial pressures.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Might have been abusive.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Oh so bad, horrible, you know, And I.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Do have to just say, like he, I mean, he's
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: obviously an unhinged, terrible individual because of I don't know
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: if he has mental unstability or whatever's going on there.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: But he did have a bit of a bright future,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: like you said at the beginning, Like he was very
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: athletic and he was like thriving in those sports.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was about to be made prefect. I mean,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: but yeah, he was just made prefect.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: So it's just like frig you wouldn't think that he
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: would be like this, you know, no.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't take much for people with like the
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: right I don't know really how to say this properly
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: or even like the right word to use, but like,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: if there's something in their DNA or something within them
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: capable of this, a monster within, sometimes it just takes
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: one trigger to bring it out, it seems like. And
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: in this situation, it seems like a relationship love or
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: passion was the trigger for him. And then once he
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: had this love in his life, claiming that he loved
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Ellie and it was gone and he didn't have that
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: control over it anymore, he snapped. He couldn't fathom losing.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: That and he didn't want anyone else to.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Have it exactly, And that's what brings this out. I mean,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: that's strictly a theory, but it seems like that's very
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: much so what happened.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: But yeah, he would have been very strong, like much
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: stronger than her, right, But the fact that he's capable
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: of taking a life at seventeen is yeah.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean he is a competitive swimmer, competitive rugby player,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: so he's definitely got physical capabilities for yeah. Now, with
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: this frenzied attack. Though nobody had witnessed what had happened
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: between the two teenagers, and Thomas was not providing in
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: best with a truthful account. The physical evidence, however, allowed
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: detectives to understand the basic sequence of events. It also
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: showed them that Thomas had not immediately left Springfield Drive
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: after Ellie was dead. He had remained inside the house
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: for nearly an hour, but investigators still needed to account
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: for what he had done before leaving the house. Investigators
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: found signs that parts of the kitchen had been cleaned,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Blood had been smeared across surfaces, The sink appeared to
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: have been used. Several cleaning materials were missing from the house.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: The knife used in the attack also appeared to have
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: been wiped down before it was positioned in Ellie's hand.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: They knew he then sent the message to Ellie's friend,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: and at approximately eleven fifty one, he finally left. Then
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: he drove back towards Dairy Hill. Thomas had returned with
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: the scratches around his face and neck, with blood on
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: at least some of the items he was wearing. He
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: changed his clothes and complained of being hot and sweaty,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: and some of the clothes were put into the washing machine.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: When police later searched the home, they found damp items
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: placed on radio. Those clothes were seized for forensic examination.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Investigators also recovered a black pair of canvas vans, the
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: ones that Thomas had worn in the video. Now the
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: shoes were particularly important because of the account that had
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: been given to police. Thomas had not admitted to visiting Ellie,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: but he did try to provide an innocent explanation for
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: why there may be blood or DNA that could be
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: found on his clothing. So they're taking his clothes, for example,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: these van's shoes and are going to test him for DNA,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: and he's like, well, I mean, if there's blood there,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: there's probably like a reasonable explanation, like a hangout with
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: her sometimes and stuff, probably probably saying well, she got
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: like a bloody nose last week, maybe things like that,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: you got.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: A bloody nose. No, the reason is because you killed her.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for the record, the bloody nose, that was just
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: me throwing something out there that I don't know if
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: he actually said that, but.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: We talk about that often. People are always like it's
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: a bloody nose. In one case, it was.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: It actually was. Yeah. Now, well, if forensic specialists could
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: find Ellie's blood on something that Thomas was wearing, though
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: there would be no reasonable way to reconcile the evidence
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: with his story. The vans were quickly submitted for urgent testing. Now,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: while investigators waited for the results, they continued examining Thomas's
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: movements and found an unexplained gap in the timeline see
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: after his phone reconnected to the Wi Fi home. Thomas's
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: phone disconnected once again, this time for approximately eighteen minutes.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: The period was far shorter than his earlier absence, and
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: investigators were already looking for items that had disappeared from
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: the gould family kitchen at the murder scene, the blood
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: stained cleaning materials that were used. They weren't found or anything,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: and so detectives considered the possibility that Thomas had taken
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: them with him when he left, and if he had
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: disposed of items during the eighteen minute gap, they knew
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: he could not have gone far, so some officers set
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: out on foot from the Griffiths home. They began walking
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: to a nearby wooded area. The calculation was rather simple.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Assuming Thomas had traveled on foot, an eighteen minute absence
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: would have given him an approximate nine minute walk away
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: from the house and another nine minute walk back to
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: the home. So, after walking approximately nine minutes, the officers
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: returned to the home, they turned around and went back right,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: and on that journey back they found a black bag
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: that was spotted beneath a bush. When they looked inside,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: they found cleaning materials that included blood stained tea towels
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: and wipes.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh. Of course the.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Items were recovered and submitted for forensic examination, and the
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: blood that was found, well, it belonged to Ellie. The
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: same result came back with Thomas's black fans shoes. There
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: was blood and it was Ellie's.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: And how is he going to explain this?
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Well, he can't. The forensic result gave investigators direct physical
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: evidence connecting Thomas to Ellie after she had been injured,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: and more importantly, it did so in a way that
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: completely contradicted the account that he had chosen to given police.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: By this stage, the evidence had allowed investigators to reconstruct
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: much of Thomas's behavior before and after the murder, but
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: one question remained more difficult to answer. Had he gone
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: to her house that day intending to kill Ellie. There
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: were several circumstances that made the possibility difficult to ignore.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Thomas had learned that Ellie was home alone, then he
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: left school after claiming to be ill. He returned home,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: changed his clothes, hidden from his mother when she unexpectedly
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: came home, and once she left, he took the Ford
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Fiesta without permission and drove to call me. His behavior
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: after the murder also showed an equally clear ability to
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: make deliberate decisions. Thomas attempted to clean the kitchen, removed
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: bloodstains and materials, and positioned Ellie's hand on the knife,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: sent a message to prevent her friend from arriving. He
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: returned home, washed his clothes, disposed of evidence in the woods,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: created false explanations for the scratches around his face and neck,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: and repeatedly lied to police. Still, despite those circumstances, investigators
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: and prosecutors could not establish beyond the required legal standard
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: that Thomas had traveled to her home that day intending
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: to kill her, even though I specifically disagree and believe
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: he did well.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: Honestly, the fact that he went home and changed. I
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: feel is almost intention like why did he change right?
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Why was his hood up when he yeahed? Why did
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: he get like? There's so many questions.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: If he wanted to just talk to her, he could
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: have just gone right from school with what he was wearing, right,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: and just to go have a conversation. So I don't
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: think that was his intention.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: I don't think so either. And if he wanted to
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: talk to her, why didn't he message her, Hey, you
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: cool to talk? What if I come over you?
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: All right? Well, he clearly isn't good at those kind
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: of boundaries. Already, we knew that exactly.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: So he's not good at boundaries, and he has an
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: intent that's questionable, to say the least. So he's omitting
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: other people's boundaries and going directly to what he wants.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: And the question is what does he want?
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: I honestly, I think sorry, oh sorry, go ahead.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: I think that there's definitely enough to say that what
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: he wants is to commit a violent act.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I just think the investigators are maybe
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: giving him the benefit of the doubt, you know that
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: that wasn't his intention or something.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's that they are giving him the
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt. I think it's just they can't
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: prove it. I think they know, they just can't prove
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: it beyond a reasonable doubt.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: How could you really prove that you know exactly? Yeah.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Now, Thomas eventually provided a different version of events from
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: the one he had initially given police. After first denying
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: that he had seen Ellie on May third, he admitted
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: that he actually traveled to her home. According to the
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: later accounts, Thomas claimed that he had gone to the
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: house intending to study with Ellie and discuss the relationship
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: following the breakup. He said that an argument developed between
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: the two of them. He admitted that he put his
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: hands around Ellie's neck, but he claimed after that he
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: blacked out and doesn't remember what had happened.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, that is also a cliche, colues, I blacked out,
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: I did these terrible acts, blacked out, and I have
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: no idea what I did.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. His next memory was allegedly of seeing that she
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: had been stabbed. Now, whatever Thomas claimed to have remembered
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: about the murder itself, the evidence showed that he had
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: remained inside Springfield Drive and attempted to clean the scene,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: even if the blackout story was true. And even if
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: the blackout story was true, and you woke up and
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: you see Ellie stabbed, why the fuck aren't you calling
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: nine one one mm hmmm mm hmm.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: That's very good points, yeah.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: For investing theaters. However, this story didn't matter. The evidence
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: was enough, and Thomas Griffiths was charged with the murder
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: of Ellie Gould and remained in custody. With Thomas now
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: in custody and only two days after Matt had found
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: his daughter dead in the kitchen, he and Carol were
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: taken to formally identify her body before they were allowed
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: to see Ellie. The injuries around her neck were covered.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Her parents brought with them a rose, chosen specifically because
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Rose was Ellie's middle name, and together they placed it
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: beside their daughter when they identified her. For Carol and Matt,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: they struggled to believe that Thomas could actually be responsible
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: for this, because they had seen how strongly he appeared
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: to feel for Ellie. They shared meals with him, shared
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Ellie's birthday celebrations, and now the evidence had forced the
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: family to confront something they could have never imagined. When
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: the relationship began only three months earlier. Ellie had known
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: him for years. She had trusted him enough to open
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: the door, and he killed her. On May twenty ninth,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, nearly four weeks after her death, Ellie's funeral
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: was held. Her family, friends, classmates, and member of the
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: wider community came together to say goodbye to the seventeen
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: year old whose death had devastated the school in the
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: town of Colney. Thomas remained in custody as a case
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: against him continued to move through the courts. Ellie's family
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: prepared themselves for the murder trial, where the evidence investigators
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: had spent months assembling will be presented in detail before
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: the jury, and on August twenty ninth, twenty nineteen, Thomas
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Griffiths appeared at Bristol Crown Court and admitted killing her
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: as he pleaded guilty. Up until that point, reporting restrictions
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: had been preventing the media from publicly identifying Thomas because
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: he had been seventeen years old at the time. During
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: the hearing, Judge Peter Blair q C considered whether those
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: restrictions should remain in place. In CA included that given
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: the seriousness of the crime that Thomas just admitted to
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: it was appropriate, reasonable and proportionate to lift them, so
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: for the first time since the investigation began, Ellie's killer
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: could be publicly named, and for Ellie's family, that guilty
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: plea spared them from having to spend weeks listening as
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: prosecutors presented the details of their daughter's murder before jury.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Thomas's sentencing hearing, though, was scheduled for November eighth, leaving
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: the Gold family with another ten weeks before they would
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: learn the punishment imposed on him. But the issue of
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: his age was again particularly significant. Thomas had turned eighteen
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: by the time he admitted to murdering Ellie, but he
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: had been seventeen on May third when he actually killed her.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: Under the sentencing rules that applied at the time, he
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: was legally a child when the crime was committed, and
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: that substantially affected the situation regarding sentencing, And as that
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: sentencing hearing approached, the court began to consider the person
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Thomas had been before May third. Until Ellie's murder, he
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: had no criminal record. He had been regarded as an
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: exceptional student, competed in swimming at a county and international level,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: played rugby at a county level, completed his Duke of
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Edinburgh award, and had recently been made a prefect at
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: his school. The defense would also point to pressures in
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: his life around the time of the murder, including approaching exams,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: his father's cancer treatment, and the death of his grandmother. Now,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: none of these circumstances excuse what Thomas had done, but
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: they formed part of the information the court was required
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: to consider for the sentencing. Then, on November eighth, twenty nineteen,
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Thomas Griffith's returned to Bristol Crown Court to learn how
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: long he would spend in prison for the murder of
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Ellie Gould. The hearing provided Ellie's parents with an opportunity
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: to explain what the previous six months had done to
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: their family. For Matt Gould, that meant describing the memory
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: he carried with him since returning home from work on
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: May third, finding his daughter dead in the kitchen. Quote
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: the image of Ellie lying there on the floor has
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: haunted me ever since. It fills my thoughts when I
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: try to sleep, and hijacks my mind when I try
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: to go about my day. Carol spoke about the experience
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: of losing her daughter in the pain of holding Ellie's
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: cold hand after she was killed. She also described the
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: betrayal of learning that the person responsible was someone the
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Gold family trusted. Thomas himself had also written a letter
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: expressing remorse for his cold blooded murder of Ellie. But
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I'll save you from his words. I will tell you though.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: As the letter was read outloud in court, Carol stared
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: at Thomas and just shook her head. Before passing sentence,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: mister Justice Garum addressed Thomas directly, and then he read
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: the sentence outloud. Thomas Griffiths was sentenced to life in prison.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: He was, however, ordered to serve a minimum of twelve
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: years and six months before becoming eligible for parole.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Uugh, I hate that.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: For Ellie's family, twelve and a half years was an
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: impossibly low number to reconcile the enormity of what had
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: been taken from them. Speaking after the sentence hearing, Carol
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: said that she did not believe Thomas should ever be released. Quote.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: I don't think he should ever be allowed out of prison.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: He's a danger to society. He's a danger, particularly to women.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: Their daughter had been murdered inside her own home by
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: someone she knew and trusted the person responsible had attempted
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: to conceal what he'd done before lying to investigators directly
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: about his involvements. Yet, because Thomas had been seventeen at
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: the time of the murder and the sentencing rules treated
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: him as a child, he could become eligible to seek
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: release while still a relatively young man. Now. In the
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: years that followed, Ellie's family began can painting for changes
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: to the way older teenagers convicted of murder were sentenced.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Their efforts became associated with reforms widely known as Ellie's Law,
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: which changed the sentencing framework so that seventeen year olds
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: convicted of murder could face significantly longer minimum prison sentences
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: before becoming eligible for parole. The changes, however, could not
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: be applied retrospectively to Thomas, but the Goulds hoped that
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: this might prevent another family from facing the same frustrations
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: with the justice system. For the people who knew Ellie,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: she was far more than the circumstances of her death.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: She was a daughter, sister, cousin, granddaughter, student rider, and
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: a friend. She was someone who noticed when others felt
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: excluded and made an effort to bring them into the group,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: She loved animals, spent summer days riding her horse Blackjack,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: through the witsher countryside, and approached the things that mattered
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: to her with determination. At seventeen, Ellie was preparing for
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: her A levels. She was learning to drive, working, considering university,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: and thinking about a possible career with the police. She
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: had an entire life ahead of her and plenty of
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: time to decide where it might take her. Then, on
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: the morning of May third, twenty nineteen, Ellie lost the
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: life she was aspiring for. Thomas took Ellie's future away
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: from her, but ultimately, the people who loved her have
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: made sure that he did not take the memory of
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: who she was. No matter if he is walking in
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: the streets again sooner or later, because it isn't his story.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: It's the story of Ellie.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Gould that it is. This fucking story guts me.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, douche Canoe couldn't handle being broken up with and
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: fucking murdered his ex girlfriend because of it. Yees, And
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: he could be walking the streets before he's thirty. I
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: think before he started, Yeah, before he's started.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, that can't happen. I don't think that will happen.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: I think he'll get longer than he'll end up having
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: longer than twelve years. I feel like there'd be a
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: freaking riot if he gets off.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Oh I hope he gets longer than twelve years.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: He has to.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's wild, and I honestly think that was premeditated murder.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: It really was. And one thing that really tells me
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: that it was premeditated murder he and it's something we
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: haven't discussed yet. He showed up with a bag, a rucksack.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: It was described as Yeah, and what did he use
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: that bag for? Transporting evidence and hiding it in the bush,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: assuming it's the same bag. We don't know for sure,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: but it seems like it.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Weapons are something in there?
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Really well, it didn't seem like he took a weapon
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: from home. The weapon was from the kitchen of yeah, old.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Family maybe had something. He could have had something.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: In there potentially, But that bag, to me is at
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: least proof that he decided he's going to be killing
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: her because he thought premeditated to take a bag to
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: transport evidence and or, like you said, weapons, What else
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: is that bag for? He claims he was going to study,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: but bullshit.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we should have been books or something in there.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: If that's the case, there should be blood on his
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: school books. Yeah, they should be able to corroborate his
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: account by saying, Okay, if you transported evidence from this
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: place with blood on it, we should find that same
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: blood on your workbooks. I mean, I don't know if
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: that was ever tested, but one way or another, he
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: still used that bag to transport evidence, which in my
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: mind shows premeditation.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I definitely think there was. You know, I
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: don't know if this is normal, but my body reacts
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: so much to some of these cases, and I like
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: just get like goosebumps all over my body.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you just get like the physical ix from it.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Like does that happen to other people? I'm curious.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: I get it sometimes when you were.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: Talking about them seeing her body, the parents and like
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: they brought a rose, oh my gosh. And then also
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: when they were reading whatever the fuck his name is
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: his statement yea or his whatever. I don't even give
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: a fuck about him. I've already forgotten everything about him.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: That's why I didn't read any of his statements.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: But his mom just like or her Ellie's mom just
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: staring at him right and shaking her head. That also
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: gave me goosebumps. So I don't know, and yeah, she
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: is so right. He is a freaking danger to women.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: He is.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: I don't think that he could be reformed in twelve years.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: So I think that he it's he would if he
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: got out in twelve years. I think it'd be I
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: don't know. I think there might be another murder.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Someone else is going to be in danger.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: I agree, Yeah, which is scary. Maybe not a murder,
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: maybe he at least learn from that hopefully, but like
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: he could be set off quite easily.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's I guarantee you well, I mean, I can't
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: guarantee anything, but my opinion is very strongly towards a
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: guarantee of there being abuse control in any sort of
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: relationship he has when he gets out of prison.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I don't think twelve years is enough to
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: reform that.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: No, definitely not yikers. So he's our douche canoe of
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: her of the day and Ellie four wanting to actually
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: get into like like being a police officer, potentially criminal
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: law or anything she could have gone for. She is
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: easily our badass the day because oh my God, someone
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: like that. We need people like that in the criminal
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: world to try and put people like Thomas behind bars.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: She could have literally have been someone one day to
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: solve a murder just like this.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: She seemed just the most incredible person I know.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: So anyways, if you guys have thoughts or opinions, shoot
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: us a message. We'd love to hear from you. If
• 1:00:00
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• 1:00:02
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• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: our Facebook, and our Patreon, you can go ahead and
• 1:00:08
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• 1:00:11
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• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: scenes exclusive content and exclusive episodes, So feel free to
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: check it out. But if you're here anyways just for
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: this you're like, I don't want to do all that stuff.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: We still appreciate you just the same. Thank you for
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: being here, and until next time, stay wicked.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: Go
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: At No