Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 474. Navigating Through Burnout: Insights and Effective Strategies to Break the Burnout Cycle - Diaris Alexander

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474. Navigating Through Burnout: Insights and Effective Strategies to Break the Burnout Cycle - Diaris Alexander · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Mental Health Week is presented by INSTILL.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Our friends at INSTILL have created a modern, purpose-built platform to help cultivate deeper, more holistic relationships within your community.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: They're passionate about lifting mental health and wellness because they put people first.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Check out the link in the show notes to learn more about how INSTILL can help you maximize your impact.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: And I'm Becky.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: And this is the we Are For Good podcast.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Non-profits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: So welcome to the good community.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: So let's get started.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Oh Becky, do we need this conversation so bad?
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, who out there right now is feeling so exhausted, feeling so burnt out, feeling like you're just having to pull yourself out of bed?
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Friends, I could tell you I have felt this a lot in the last couple months and we want you to know you're not alone.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: And we have brought on a powerhouse today to talk about how to break the burnout cycle.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: And I am just so honored to introduce you to our new friend, diaris Alexander.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: She is an executive consultant with InWealth and she is this incredible human being who can build anti-burnout strategies.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: And she is also an impact architect for all these mission-driven leaders like us who are really trying to make a difference in the world but really combating how to find wellness and balance in our work.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: So we're going to Los Angeles today.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: You have been an operations leader, consultant and coach that really is designing strategies that deliver the results that matter.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: And, as this founder of InWealth, whoop whoop to women founders and entrepreneurs.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: We really love that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: You're supporting mission-driven high achievers and achieving more nourishing habits so that they can sustainably lead their lives with more passion, purpose and impact.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: And how good is Diaris's work?
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Well, it's earned her recognition dating back to 2005, including scholarships from Gates Millennium Scholars Program, the Jackie Robinson Foundation and the Kiwanis Club, and she is here to talk with us about breaking that burnout cycle, how to recognize the burnout within yourself and others around you, and how do you get in there and really forge a new path toward health and wellness and self-love.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: So welcome, diaris.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: We are so excited that you're here.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: I'm happy to be here.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me and I got to say it's definitely the perfect time for this.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: I don't know if there are any other recovering chronic overachievers out there, but that's definitely the lens that I came into it.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: And I would say also on a personal note, this year I had a medical challenge, so you really think about burnout in terms of how it impacts your capacity.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: So I think I have a whole new lens on how to bring compassion to that, how to really show it for myself and others, and sometimes you got to learn the hard way.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: But it's such a worthy fight to be in and I think there's lots of movement towards this as well.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: Hopefully not just lots of conversation, but lots of things happening culturally, politically, et cetera.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Well, that was such good tone setting because this is an activating community.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, we start with conversation, but we want to take something out of this and make these 1% shifts and I have to say I agree with you.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: When I saw in your bio that you support mission-driven high achievers, I was like is that 95% of the sector, possibly?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: So thank you for that vulnerability, excited to dig into your story, but we kind of want to go back Diaris and just know about you growing up.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: What did your childhood look like and what kind of led you to this work today?
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so, as I mentioned, chronic overachiever, there's a story my dad tells about how angry I was that I couldn't read because my only role models and peers were like my older sister, who's like three years older than me, and my parents.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: And my dad says Diaris, you don't just start reading shortly after you start speaking.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, that's not how these things work.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: And I think for so much of my life I've always defined my own peers, and peers are people that care, people that want to make things happen, people that want to be supportive to their community.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: So I've always been connected to community causes, often youth development media, and I also work full-time at a nonprofit currently.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: So I get what it's like to be working in silos.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: I get what it's like to have the challenge of AI.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: I know there's a fundraising AI event coming up.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: I know there's a lot of things that are just hitting at us right now and I think it's the perfect time and the perfect culmination of all my work to come together with the new ones to support people in new ways.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: My goodness, I mean, you are exactly one of us trying to juggle all the balls and just have your heart and try to protect your heart in the process of all of this.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: So I want to start because so many of us feel like we're facing burnout, but I want to make sure our language is consistent here, because let's talk about what's the difference between stress, between exhaustion and burnout, and what are those signs and symptoms that you can say, okay, this is definitely burnout.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: For sure and let's start with validating however you feel is how you feel, and that's important.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: I know we can always talk about putting labels on things and sometimes that makes us feel like we're not alone.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: I think the greatest piece within that is that when you know you're not alone, it's not like, oh, so many people are suffering just like me.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: It means there's so many different ways that you can approach a solution.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: I want to start with that tone.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: But for stress, I would say that's an experience, you know.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: When it comes down to it, it's psychological, it's physiological, it's a reaction, usually to a trigger.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: So we're looking at events, circumstances, things that might be considered a threat or a challenge, and there are different levels to it.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: You can be acute, you can be episodic, you know, like if you consistently have deadlines, maybe if you're in writing or journalism, you know, maybe if there's something like that, or it could be chronic.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: So if you're living in poverty, if you are living in a place with a lot of crime, if you're living with discrimination, any of the isms you know, I think that that relates to stress.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I just think, whatever's happening right now in the world, there just seems to be so much vitriol and it feels like we're fueled by our fear and by our hate, and so many of us are trying to seek out the good and the joy and the hope.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: And it's really hard when you're working in a job where you are spinning so many plates all the time.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: So talk to me about some of the common causes of burnout, like both personal and, in that professional context.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: What does it look like?
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: For sure, so let's say the most common symptom that people also think about is exhaustion.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: But when you talk about the causes, it really is.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: You know, I think of it in three buckets, but there are six causes that are big contributing factors.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: So the first bucket I think of workload and a lack of control.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: So, right like you don't have the autonomy that you need to have in order to make things happen, that happens a lot for those of us that care a lot.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: You know we might have a lot of ideas, we might have a lot of things that we want to do and maybe there's not a lot of understanding of how the pieces fit together.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: So that comes up a lot when they're also very silent organizations.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: The next bucket I think of rewards and recognition and fairness.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: So if you are working in a situation where you aren't recognized for the good work that's having the impact that is impacting your constituents, that could be a big symptom and a contributing cause of burnout in the workplace.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: If you don't see things as fair, maybe you give all the care to the people that you help, but then the employees of the organization themselves maybe don't receive a lot of care, and I've spoken to a lot of people and clients in you know, past informational interviews where people shared that a lot.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: They didn't see the integrity between what they're saying they want to do in the world and what their experience is working for the organization.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: And the last piece that I think the piece that we are for good does very well to help combat burnout so far, and that is community and like having a sense of values alignment.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: So when you don't have that, that contributes to burnout is when it comes down to it, burnout is.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: It was recognized by the World Health Organization 2019 as a syndrome and, like 20, you know to really look at it being an occupational phenomenon like this is it's work related, it's not a personal thing, but it could have personal impact on your life and the biggest one you know goes from stress to exhaustion and it's that extreme fatigue.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: It's the I Need a vacation for my vacation.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: It means like the weekends can't be long enough, the time away can't be long enough, like I'm I'm just tired and I think you know to all my folks that also have chronic illnesses or things like that.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: I think you know what that that means from a different lens.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: But that's, that's a big part of burnout.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: But the other piece is also being lost, of enthusiasm in your work, you know, and then ultimately, in efficacy.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: You know, you, no matter how much you care if you get burnt out.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: The work you're doing is not at the level that you would want it to be or that you need it to be to achieve your mission.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Can I just double-click on one thing that you said, because I don't know, in 20 years of working in the sector, if I've ever heard this word used in the sector, which is fairness.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know that I have ever heard that word used in non-profit.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: John, have you?
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Not openly In the forefront yes, and I think about that in the context of a sector where power imbalance is so extreme between donors and fundraisers, between EDs and frontline people, and that Quality of fairness, I would think, would have such a heavy effect, especially on those of us who are high achievers, those of us who Will pour into ourselves last, and so I really value that you lifted that one up, and I think I'm gonna have to think a little bit more about it, because I wonder how we're even socialize, socializing in things that we think are unfair in our work, and how do we combat that, how do we lift it in a way where it builds conversation, where it builds equity?
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I think this is gonna Expose much more than burnout, which is what I think I'm saying, and I really value that you're choosing these words die hours of course, in those Six contributing factors that I mentioned are from Christina Maslach's burnout inventory, so there's a ton of research.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: So if you're like, hey, I know these things are contributing out in order to start and you kind of Want to fall back on some research, that is one great way to do that.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: But the way that I like to think about fairness, the easy place to start, or what should be easy, is transparency.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: You know, that's why I bucket in it with rewards and recognition within those factors, because we need to see what what's happening.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: You know your, your budget kind of tells what your values are in terms of how you invest, but also how you're choosing to spend your time, how you're choosing to invest in talent.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: You know 80% of organization nonprofits don't even have a retention strategy for their employees, right, and you know their stats there saying 45% of us that work for nonprofits are looking for new jobs by 2025.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: So we know that there's a problem, but we're just kind of shifting the people along and not addressing some of the root causes.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: And it's not just Self-care.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: What I think we really need to do within this space for the fairness is a community care.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: You know it's kind of Challenging some of this Western Pull yourself up by the bootstraps.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: We're all independent and doing that and really looking at, we can be greater and stronger together.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Like, how are we really organizing our work, organizing our ideas, organizing the innovations we want to put out in the world to support people, so that we can do that?
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: You know, otherwise we could all just be consultants, we could all just choose to, you know, invest in our art or do these as hobbies, but we're choosing to make careers out of this, and so I think we have a responsibility To challenge the way that we're doing that as a sector.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you are going there and we are here for it, and I would say that's definitely Central to why we wanted to create this space for this week, because we do believe in just the power of keeping people in these Roles that are so important.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: But things just have to change, and so I wonder if we could talk about this burnout cycle, like how does it manifest?
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: What are the common patterns that you've observed, as people kind of are Inch and toward it, like how can they start to identify this?
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Because there's so much power and understanding where you're at for sure.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: And my first step is sort of challenging.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Burnout is really always a pulse check anyway.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: So like, how are you, how are you feeling, what's going on, how are you relating to others, etc.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure if you're familiar with this or not, but I also have in my Instagram highlights for Inwalt, a Series that I did that were the 12 steps or stages of burnout.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: So I want to read those to you to make sure that you're getting each piece, because I think the first time I created it, it was hard to To recognize that some of these seem so Not as threatening.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: You know, because the first step is excessive ambition and drive.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: These are people that double these high achievers.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: You know you are focused on the, the mission.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: You know you are Looking at your workload, you're trying to expand it, you're leveraging tech.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: You're, you know, sending the extra hours.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: You're, you know, trying to find new ways to so old problems.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's one of the things that that creeps.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: So number one is excessive ambition.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: To is sort of like this working harder, you know, phase when you're just kind of digging deeper.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Three is neglecting me.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: So we talk about how this relates to your personal life, like how?
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: How long does it take for the laundry to get done?
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: I know you can get in the washer, maybe in the dryer, but does it really take two weeks to put it away?
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: You know, are you really doing some of those things that help you feel balance, even within your home?
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Number For a displacement of conflict, right, this place with conflict.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: This is like when you are Challenge and you can't seem to figure out.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Maybe you're going off on your partner or, you know, maybe it's a little extra road rage, you know, maybe it's something like that, but these, these steps are so Small it's so hard to kind of figure out when it's happening to you.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: That's why it's important to have these full shots.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: But number five work only focus.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: Number six denial.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: Number seven withdrawal.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: Number eight Behavior changes.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Number nine Depersonalization.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: Number ten, in our emptiness or anxiety.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Number eleven depression.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: And finally, number twelve collapse.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: So at the end of all of this you can see many ways that especially women Are kind of just pushing through right, like there's all this data that says that we even recognize less pain in ourselves.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Doctors recognize less pain.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: There's intersectionality with that data as well.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: But, like, if you keep going along these paths and it's not just you, right, because it's a community care issue.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Our folks are going to collapse, you know, like complete exhaustion, like cannot get up, cannot do these things.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: And this doesn't mean everyone's going to experience all of these symptoms.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: But to know that that's what it could be for even some of us, I think, gives us positive.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Think about what are we doing to be responsible for this.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: You know, what are we doing to care for the folks that are helping us achieve this work, and how are we recognizing it in ourselves and in others?
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: I just think knowledge is power and, if I can be entirely vulnerable, dairis, I mean I have.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Literally I have clicked through every one of those that you just named out in the last two months, for sure, not to scare anybody, but to just be honest, and I think this is real and I so appreciate you just putting names on it and cycling through each of them, because, friends, we have to take care of ourselves.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: And something that you said and I've actually I'll share something else very personal.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: I've been recently diagnosed with ADHD and as a part of trying to understand that, I had some brain mapping done.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Y'all.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: If you should check out brain mapping, it is bananas.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I felt like Rick Moranis in Ghostbusters with like the colander on his head with all the wires.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: It was amazing.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: It took like 10 minutes, but I literally found out that my brain has a propensity to self criticize and to not think that it's good enough, and it's like these things are hardwired and having this information gives us a plan and I think, john, you have taught me so beautifully the power in habits and understanding these systems, understanding these precursors and these warning signals.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I mean we're looking for signals all the time.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's any sector that looks for signals better than ours.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: We're looking for engagement, we're looking for prospects, we're looking for donors, we're looking for rabid fans.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Are we doing a gut check on ourselves?
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Because I think this is so important, and so the question I have for you, diaris, is why do people like Becky, maybe like you out there, find themselves stuck in this cycle, repeating these same patterns over and over, and despite these efforts that we're making to try to break free from it?
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Like, give us insight on that and then tell us, please, how can we learn to break free?
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: So I think you know I mentioned that it's not just a self care issue, so thinking that you are going to think your way out of it because maybe you have before, maybe you've been able to manage that same kind of workload that you have before.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Our bodies change, our minds change, situations change.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: Their compounding of stress impacts us.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: You know how you're relating to political climate, how you're relating to things in the news.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: You are not the same person and it's OK.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: You know, and I want to welcome and lift up, that there are people like me that want to hold this better vision for what you want for yourself in your life, right?
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: So when you are stuck in this cycle, it's so easy to be like I've been here before, am I ever going to get it?
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: You know, like when it hits you with the pebble and then the rock and then the brick, and then it gets really hard, you know.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: But the important thing is to recognize it's not just your problem, because it is a cultural issue for organizations in a systemic issue within nonprofits and helping professions as well.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: I think, when it looks at what you're going to do individually, I think there is also a big mistake that folks make and that's looking at time management versus energy management, and I think so much of the productivity, like gurus and all the things that you're going to read, you know, or often you're socialized and thinking like I just have to manage the 24 hours that I have today.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: You know, beyonce has the same 24 hours as me, but money, resources, you know, supportive communities help you get more out of those hours, right, or help Beyonce, because I don't have those same needs but those kind of resources, especially if you had a larger organization that maybe things could shift.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: You know, and we're accepting that things are the way that they are because that's the way that they've been, but maybe you've grown a lot, or your organization have grown a lot in the last couple of years and they're acting smaller than they are.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: So focusing on energy management will help you get to better time management.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: What that looks like on the day to day is recognizing the rhythms that you have, you know, and it's not just designing a perfect day, like people will say oh, just work on your perfect days, but you might have rhythms within the month, you know.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: You might have rhythms where, you know, at the beginning of the month you like to start really early, you know, and maybe that's great for writing, or for me personally, line work is kind of like the only thing I can do at night, you know, like I can kind of get in the zone and lose myself within it.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: But, like writing, I have to have sort of like a fresh mind for it.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: So I try to arrange my day accordingly, but that's, that's a big part.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: And then focusing on what are you actually going to do to create a capacity care plan, and that's actually something that I'm working on.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: That is part of my work and I'll be launching this fall because a plan for me in sacronyne is getting that pulse.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: You know, l is for leverage, a is the activator and N is for network, because you cannot do this alone.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: You shouldn't want to, you know, and I don't want you to.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: And like I mentioned earlier that I was an overachiever and so I grew up in Oakland and so I don't know if you can tell, but I probably did well in school, but I wanted to make it look so easy, like I didn't want to want to ever see me with books, you know, like if I was taking a bus, I didn't want people to have to see me studying.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: You know there's so much that I was caring is that I had to make it look effortless.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: And then, as I embraced more leadership positions, I learned like it's easier to relate to people when they see how you got there, especially when I was doing the development work showing people.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Here's some of the questions that I ask.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Here's some of the resources that I went through.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: Here's some of the same ways that you can maybe make this your own and I think the more you can kind of see like, hey, if we're working in community, that means I actually could probably work on that thing I love more, you know, or maybe I could work on be a beginner in something that I've been interested in, because now I have a partner and a mentor in this and if I can check in with them but I can learn how to use this technology differently.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Maybe I can be an Excel ninja, you know, like.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Maybe I can, you know, check in with chat to be to figure out how to, you know, maximize some of my skills.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: I think there's too much is just focusing on the individual.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: As soon as you can plug into communities, like we are for good and like wherever helps you feel safe to have these conversations so that you can make real, tangible steps to address your day to day.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I mean just really loving where this conversation is going.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I think I'm still like getting over your 12 steps of burnout, honestly, because by step three it was like skipping a need for yourself or something like that.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Right, and I'm like how often am I hearing from people that don't even get up to take a lunch, you know, because our really connected, overly scheduled lives, like we're not even feeding ourselves, like we are on the path, All of us are on this path.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: So if we don't take action, we're going to end up at the end of this.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And I'm trying to like really look at that analogy and think about what are the patterns, you know, what are their specific triggers or patterns that contribute to keeping us in this cycle.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I wonder if you could walk us through a point out, any of those.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll and also point out that in my Instagram highlights I go through all the 12 steps and I basically have a formula for it where I'll say this is what it feels like, and then I'll go over three things that you can actually do to address it.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: So it might be, um, neglecting your needs, maybe for our narrow spicy community.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: It might be having body doubling and doing an errand date, you know.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: So maybe you go with a friend to the grocery store, you know, like, so that you can have these places, that kind of connect, more of these needs together.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: Um, but yeah, I think it's.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: It is going to be a lot, you know, but the more, the more important piece and I think what challenges I've personally felt with trying to address some of these issues has been shame, you know, like I shouldn't need this help.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: I shouldn't need someone to go to the grocery store for me, I shouldn't need to have such a hard time planning my meals or something like that, and if you can kind of figure out where you're spending your energy in shame or you're spinning your wheels about decisions that you don't wanna make.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: you can let go of them, and maybe it's with therapist, maybe it's with a friend, maybe you schedule you work on your weeks together or on Sundays.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: But I think you need to address those things and I would say those are the first things that I did try to let go of.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: It's like okay, what if I just say I'm not gonna cook?
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: Or what if I'm beating myself up because I could never work out on Mondays?
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: What if we just say you don't work out on Mondays and then you can be perfect?
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: You know the rest of the week and there's air clothes for folks.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: There's no perfect, but you know, try to figure out where you can let things be easy.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: you know, and that's a challenge when I am stuck, I just get a pen to paper or a color pencil or you know, I like to do some color in this because you really need to break out of your day to day to think creatively.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: You know, about how are all the ways that I can solve my problem?
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: Because generally, especially if you're underpaid and a resource in an organization or maybe just in your household and you don't have the kind of support that you need, you think the only solution is more money.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: You know, or that's the first solution, but really it's a friend can help you with this, you can barter with this.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: You know, leveraging your skills can save you the time in something like this.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: You know, just telling yourself that, hey, they say this test you know is gonna take, or this opportunity is gonna take, six hours.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: What if we just say I'm gonna do it as fast as I can and I'm gonna let it go?
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: You know, and those things work, you know, and it's really to think about.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: You know, talk about habits.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: It's really the micro habits, like how do you interrupt, you know, these thinking, these cycles of self criticism, these cycles of neglecting your needs and set yourself up for the best case scenario.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: If you're not planning your meals, in the very least make sure the food's in the house, you know, maybe it's ordering a bunch of things that are almost ready to go.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: You know If there's something that you don't neglect every day, if you take your dog out or something like, is there something you can do where you carry a plate of snacks, so it's always next to you when you're at your desk?
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: But those are some of the things that I like to work on.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: And why do the networking part of my capacity care plan?
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Because the solutions can come from other people, you know, and when I talked about earlier, hey, there's, maybe it feels good to know you're not alone in this.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: The key piece there to remember is when you're not alone, there are so many paths to the other side, because other people are trying things that you have not tried, you know, and then you can develop more nuance, more confidence, you can release some of the shame because you know that you can do better and that people are rooting for you, and I think we need more of those spaces.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: We wanna be a space like that for you and Diaris.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: I 100% wanna know when that capacity care plan comes out, because I think it is so desperately needed in the sector.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: And I wanna thank you for talking about shame, because I think that that's one of the underlying fuelers for us that we don't address, and I think a great activating point is what you just said is identifying it and figuring out a way to release it.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: And I am here to tell you all, as someone who holds on to crap really tightly because I'm a control freak, letting go of anything is incredibly hard, but the lightness and the freedom that comes with it, it is a gift to yourself.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: John, can you imagine if we treated ourselves like we do the top donor in our portfolio how differently we would walk through this life, how much more differently we would walk through this work?
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: And so I really appreciate this insight Diaris and I wanna get into how do we recognize this burnout in ourself?
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: How do we recognize it in others?
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Because you don't wanna call it out in this sort of aggressive fashion, because you're talking about this community care aspect.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: So talk to us about how we can recognize early signs of burnout in ourselves, and what do you do when you see it in people that you love and that you work with?
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Would love to get your insights on that, for sure.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: I think we should flip that question on its head and just accept that the ways that we've been going about things are building burnout.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: So I think what we need to be recognizing are the ways that are combating it.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: We really need to recognize what are aspects or assets that we have that anti burnout culture, things like instituting pulse checks at the beginning of meeting where are you on a scale of one of five?
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Like, how much support do you need?
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Are you feeling over capacity?
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Like having like small things that you can do that really recognize that you're going in the right direction Because your matters.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: If we're looking for burnout, we're going to find it everywhere we go.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: What we need to recognize is the ways that we're challenging it and we need to celebrate that, like loud and proud and cheering people on for making good decisions.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: And I mentioned earlier in the episode that I had a medical challenge or still have a medical challenge, but there are ways to it.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: And one of the things that was difficult for me is that I felt a big loss of control.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: As you might imagine, I don't know how everyone's experience with medication is, but there could be interactions that can impact you cognitively, behaviorally, all that and I felt like I didn't have as much control over what I wanted.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: I definitely did not have the capacity that I thought I had, and so I made a challenge for me, as my older sister was doing 75 hard, which is a big fitness challenge you can look at it, oh my gosh.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: John did 75 hard.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I honestly go back to this a lot too.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so good.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: I did not do it.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: So let's bring that up.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: I love K so too much.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I couldn't make it work.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: My sister was doing it and I was like good for you, I will check in with you and cheer you on.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: But I was going through my challenge.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: I was like I want to do like a hundred easy and I started tracking like can I do two things a day?
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: You know that is like a positive vote for my holistic self.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: You know it could be as simple as a mindful glass of water.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: You know having tea before my coffee.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: You know it could be going for a walk, it could be a cardio session, it could be reading.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: And I tracked this in 45 day sprints using Apple TicTac.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: I've made this habit and I looked at what are the things that I was doing and like, because when you feel like you have no control, it was really helpful for me to celebrate the things that I did have control over.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: And there are things that you can do in 30 seconds, in a minute, in an hour.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: And I really looked at that because you know, burnout, workload, loss of autonomy, you gotta go back to where you feel the most empowered and the most energized and if you can start identifying where you have your power, even on the smallest you know case, then you can take it to the next level, you know, and I could say like, okay, well, this type of workout helped me feel my best, you know.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: So how do I do that?
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Or if I'm going into a big meeting, like it really helps for me to do you know particular kind of exercise, or if I've had a stressful day, maybe yoga, if I'm angry, it's cardio, it's high intensity, it's like a hit.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: I don't get too angry.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: I was like that would be good for my fitness but I was like let's have the balance.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I think it's really looking at.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: You know what's easy.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: You know leaning into that all the way.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: Because those are where your answers are.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: And I think, when you think about shame, when you think about how to recognize burnout in other people, I want you to recognize what's coming easy to folks.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: I want you to recognize how energized a meeting is when people are in their element, you know, and how can create more of those moments, because that is how you begin scaling your culture, that is changing your wellbeing as an organization.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, positively obsessed with what you've just shared here.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I just think there is that is something that all of us can do and there is so much power in keeping track of this thing and I think you writing that down and being able to look back.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: I think of Siri Lindley.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: She's on our Ungettable Get List, but I listened to a talk with her once that said stack your proof, because, like in these hard moments, you need to go back and look and be like no, okay, I have made all this progress, I have taken care of myself in all these ways, like in this example.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: So I'm just here for this.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you for walking us through this conversation.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's been so many resources of just of help, of a lifeline that for someone listening today so you know you've listened to our show.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I appreciate how you've picked up on our values and threaded those through the conversation.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: You know we couldn't do this without talking about and celebrating the power of philanthropy, and I want you to take us into one of the stories that have stuck with you.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: It could be something smaller, big Dyrus, but what is something that's really resonated with you and your journey.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so for me it is the small, you know, it's the things that often go unnoticed, because it's always frequency over intensity for me, like those are things that are the most blatant.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: You know, the things that really emotionally resonate for me are the things that you can recognize every day, you know, and so I recently, for I work for a nonprofit called Management Leadership for Tomorrow.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: They do work to advance racial equity and I work in an alumni advancement role, and so recently I created a campaign called MLT Dreams to connect our alums dream for their own success, for their own life, to the larger issue of racial equity, closing the wealth gap, and I really wanted to inspire lots of alumni to participate.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: But I just remember one conversation in particular with an alum who was unemployed at the time and you know, you think about alumni giving participation and they wanted so much to support.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: They're like I just really don't know how I'm going to do it because I'm just having a really hard time financially.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: And not only did they make a donation, you know, via our deadline, but they also went and recruited, you know, some peers that lived in their area and they checked back with me.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: You know, because there was no pressure.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: You know from my end.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: You know they know the story, they know why we do the work that we do.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: They know why we care about community.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: But to see people make us a philanthropic priority for them, you know, to give that any level really just touches my heart.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: You know it's.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: You know the kids that are giving you their quarter, you know it's.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: You know it's just something about knowing that you could make other choices and that you still choose to support this.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: It's just something that will always touch my heart, you know, especially when things are hard, especially when you're going out and you're inspiring other people and you're just meeting people where they are.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: And that's so much what I love about philanthropy, like the actual root of the word, is like loving humankind and what we're doing within community.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: And yeah, it's those stories that carry me forward.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: The story of the tiniest gifts compounding into just lessons and moments that we hold on to.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Those never get old for me, ever and thank you for sharing that.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: And I can say that for each of us out there who are on the front lines working to fundraise so hard for our organizations, are we recognizing how people are giving us literally maybe their last dollar, you know, because they want to be a part of something that's bigger than themselves?
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: What a gift that we get to work in this space.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: That's number one, but number two, or maybe one B, take care of yourselves so we can continue to work in this space.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: I am so proud of everyone who has tuned in to this conversation because it is an investment in yourself, and when you invest in yourself and you pour back into yourself, it's going to be a gift that doesn't just ripple in your job, it ripples to the people who love you.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: It ripples to the communities who support you.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: I mean you even bring up the little fur babies that we all have.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Everybody gets joy and benefit from you being healthy and filled, and so I'm proud of you for doing that.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: So we're down to the one good thing.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Diarrus, like, how in the world.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Are you going to distill something down to a one good thing today on this podcast?
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: We're on the edge of our seats.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Well, I've kind of interweaved it a little bit, but the key piece for me is you know, let life and let your work be an adventure.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: Let things be easy, you know, involve some play within your day.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: Figure out how to do that as often as possible, because letting things be easy happens to be the hardest thing for so many of us, you know.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: And but when you let things be easy, you also figure out how to let them be easy for other people.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: You know, and how to let people shine in their light and how to really get to the core of community care as part of your self-care.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: So, if you take nothing else, please figure out in your next email and your next campaign and your next, you know, job posting.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: Figure out how to let it be easy and how to go through life with that sense of joy and play and wonder.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: My gosh Dioris is sliding that big red easy button over to us.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: We can like hit it.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: I mean this conversation seriously met us in this space that we're at and just given us so much hope and brought us back to community, this powerful force that is here for the taking right here and right now.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: So how can folks connect with you, how can people get in community with you and the work that you're doing like?
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Point us to all the ways you show up online.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I need to find you on Instagram, for one thing All these shout outs are given.
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: I think we're missing stuff over there, for sure, for sure.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: So LinkedIn you know at, or slash in slash diaries.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: I'm the only one you know so far.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: First one to get it.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: Right, although on Instagram is different.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: The best way to connect with me there is that in wealth.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: So in wealth is kind of like intentional well-being as well.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: That's where the name came from, and so it's I N W E L L T H.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: So that is the way there, and you can just send me a DM there.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: So if you're having a particular challenge or you have a question about a resource that I shared or want me to double click on anything from today's conversation, I'm happy to shoot you over that resource.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: So I have things about the five ways that, like team leaders, are missing that really could get to the root of this.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: I have checklists and then, of course, I'm going to have my upcoming capacity care retreat.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: I'll probably run one search wise before the end of the year and then email, but LinkedIn and Instagram are the best ways, and I'll give you all my email so that you can put it in the show notes.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: It will all be in there, and I just think, if you're someone who's putting, it's probably too late, but I'm going to say it anyway if you have not finalized your 2024 budget and you are looking for ways to building healthier cultures to pour into your staff, I just think this community care and capacity, care, retreat and learning is such a powerful tool.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: We definitely want to have insight on that and share it with our community.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: So, dairis, thank you for coming in.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: You totally exposed me and all of us in the greatest of ways.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Also want to give a shout out to management leadership for tomorrow, for what they're doing and building up leaders and doing equity work.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: We are absolutely here for that in this community as well.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: So go check them out.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you, my friend and friends out there.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Be well.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: We care about you.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people who care about you.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: The sector needs you.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: Take some time off, pour into yourself.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: You're worthy of it.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us for these powerful discussions.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: If you'd like to dig deeper, you can find additional episodes and resources at weareforgoodcom.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Backslash mental health.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: And these conversations continue over at the we Are For Good community.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Here we'll double click on some of the topics and support each other in community.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Come find us.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: We are for good communitycom.