Latest / Glovisor Podcast / Ep. 22: Permission to Lead: You Don't Need a Title to Lead

Transcript

Ep. 22: Permission to Lead: You Don't Need a Title to Lead · Glovisor Podcast

• Joe Abreu - Glovisor: Most people think leadership starts when someone gives you authority. But what Most people think leadership starts when someone gives you authority. But what if leadership actually begins the moment you decide to remove obstacles that are holding you back? Today's guest believes great product leaders do more than create solutions. They eliminate blockers and unlock momentum. Welcome to the Glovisor Podcast, where we explore leadership, communication, business growth, and personal development through real conversations with leaders making an impact. Today, we are joined by product strategy. Today we're joined by a product strategy and AI transformation leader at Dell Technologies. She has spent more than a decade leading enterprise technology, digital transformation, and AI initiatives across organizations like Dell, EY, HCL Technologies, and Tata Group. She's passionate about helping organizations move from AI experimentation to scalable business impact, while also empowering more people to lead complex technology transformations with confidence. Today we're diving into one of my favorite concepts permission to lead. The idea that leadership doesn't begin with a title, it begins when you decide to remove obstacles and create alignment. Glovisor wants what Glovisor Glovisor welcomes Shristi Pranjal Shristi Pranjal: Thank you so much, Joe, for having me here. Super excited for our conversation today. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: You're welcome. Looking forward to it. All right, so Shristi, let's begin. For people meeting you for the very first time, how would you describe what you do today at Dell Technology? Shristi Pranjal: Yes, I mean today at Dell I work as a product strategist today at Dell I work as a product strategist where I sit down with the business owners and define Today at Dell, I work as a product strategist, and one of the key portfolios that I handle is looking at the pricing and promo problem statements across people, process, and tools. work very closely with the engineering team and help them define what are the key priorities that they should be looking at. So you can think of it something like: I the map, whereas my engineering team is actually the driver and they take it to the next level. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: ⁓ I like that analogy. But take us back a bit. What originally attracted you to technology, strategy, and transformation work? Shristi Pranjal: Yes, I mean I never started with that intention that I want to be a product strategist. In fact, I started with a project engineer working in tech consulting in steel, metal, and mining industry, far away from IT consulting or consumer electronics. At that point in time, I was interested in client interactions rather than just sitting in four walls of the office and evaluating, you know, drawings. And I think leaders saw that intention in me that I really want to go out there, go to the project sites and see exactly how those projects are delivered. I really took a keen interest in client interactions, defining how the business gets, you know, acquired by our company. So that is the point when leader gave me an opportunity that why don't you work as a strategist and in business development? And that's when it all started. I experimented with some of the things and really kind of a blind spot that yes, this is an area that I'm really interested in and I can really take my expertise to the next level. So it was a combination of technical acumen combined with business understanding. that's where I discovered that okay, I sit at an intersection of knowing the technology side of the things at the same time, I have certain bend of mind for business understanding the business. so that's where it all started, Joe. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: ⁓ excellent. but was there an early career moment that you realized that leadership was about more than just technical expertise? Shristi Pranjal: mean, there are plenty. if I just go back almost a decade, I was working with Etsel at that point in time. and you we had this big problem statement. We had to set up an offshore development center for a client ⁓ which was entertainment segment. So I was brought in as a program manager at that point in time. And we had a pool of technical folks. There. I mean, we had all the senior leaders who were supporting us, then there was a delivery team which was actually set up. They came with excellent technical expertise, but there was something that was missing, and that was actually the client trust. And that's where I played a key role or a role. That's where I played a key role of connective tissue. That means I worked ⁓ closely with the client to establish that trust. I think that's when you would understand that technology and the technical understanding is not enough. With leadership, you can bring a lot more clarity. You can gain the confidence of your clients and at the same time help them understand that, hey, we got your back. We are going to deliver this. One of the key challenges which was there associated with this offshore development center was a typical timeline is like 90 days to setting up an offshore development center because there are multiple things which are hand. Happening together. You have got resources, you have got equipment, have got you know, people to on board here. So there are multiple teams which were working there. And then we had this timeline of just 30 days. And it was a huge commitment. And it was our ⁓ brand was at risk if we do not deliver on that. And that's where I really tested and put my into the game and really delivered the project in time. And there was a slogan that was, you know, very widely pronounced at that point in time in its sale, which was relationship beyond contract. And that's what we actually showed that hey, it is not just about doing something in just 30 days. It is also about the experience of the customers and the clients with whom we partnered. So I think leadership is not just about what you have committed, but it's also about how you delivered that and what is a relationship that you can take forward also. So Joe Abreu - Glovisor: I like that. So relationship beyond the contract? Is that the line? perfect. Well, talking about lines, one line from LinkedIn post that really stood out to me is your role is your What does that mean to you personally? Shristi Pranjal: Yes. Yes. It has actually taken my career to a next level, I would say. We need to understand what it actually means. A lot of people believe that the permission to lead actually comes from your positional power. That means someone has to give you that badge of leadership. But it begins much before that. It is your preparation to take the next level. It is about how you really want to unlock and unblock the organization from the value that you want to deliver. So if there is something that is standing between the value that you want to deliver and there is a vision for the organization, I think it becomes your top to unblock it. And that's what I mean by, you know, your role is your permission. The very reason your role exists, that ⁓ can actually drive something to the other side of the finishing line. And are caught up so much of you know, self-talks that is this my area? I think we should just go ahead and lead. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: Absolutely. So why do you think this so many professionals are waiting for formal authority or permission before they can step up to solve some issues and problems? Shristi Pranjal: Yes. I I think there are two primary reasons. that I just mentioned that it is about feeling that there would be someone who would come and hand them that flag that hey, go ahead and lead. They are waiting for a formal title. I think that is one of the key reasons why people are not able move things forward and you know unblock certain things because they are waiting for the right position or the title. They are confusing their personal power with positional So that's one of the points. The second point I believe, and this is true for a lot of people, especially in ⁓ In the management middle. I think that has to do with your imposter syndrome, which means we feel that we're not capable at this point in time, or this is not my area, or would that look good? So a lot of self-talk goes in. I think people need to manage their courage with their confidence and be curious that what lies on the other side and put themselves out there. Those are the two things which I believe hold people back. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: That's huge. I mean, there I think we can do a whole segment just on imposter syndrome, huh? Wow. So one thing is you talk about leaders being on blockers, but what's the difference? instead of a solutioner, let's just say from a leadership standpoint. Shristi Pranjal: So completely. Can you repeat that question for me, Joel? Joe Abreu - Glovisor: ⁓ you talk about leaders being on blockers ⁓ instead of being solutioners. Can you explain the difference between the two? Shristi Pranjal: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yes. So there are unblockers then there are solutioners. So solutioners are those which have great technical expertise. They have great ideas, but they remain on paper. They remain in those screen, zoom screens and team screens, and they remain in that meeting room. But unlockers are the ones who will carry that paper that, hey, we have a solution in place. Now, what it takes to actually go ahead and implement. I think a lot of people believe that your work will speak for itself, but that is not true. So those who are solution, they believe that they have solution something great. And it will transition into reality. But that's not true. You need to actually have that mindset that now that we have a solution, what are the logical next steps that I need to take in order to make sure that it moves to the next level? In fact, that's where I would an important point of the decision paralysis. We try to over-perfect our solution and do not let go to the next level so that we can actually try that is it actually working or not. So those who are unblockers, they would like to experiment. They would believe in action. They would have an action bias. They would have an ownership bias. But those who are solutioners, no disregard to them, but they have great technical expertise, but they do not take it to the next level and believe that their technical, you know, solution itself will speak for itself. So that's the difference in my opinion, Joe. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: Sure. another thing that really stood out to me is that you mentioned playing both the diplomat and a bulldozer. how do you know when to build a consensus ⁓ versus to push through that resistance? Shristi Pranjal: Yes, so it doesn't come na like yes, I think that is Yes, that depends on the stage that we are in. If I have to play the role of the diplomat, it would actually depend on where we are in this entire journey. So I'll give you a concept in product strategy and ⁓ product management. It is like first, when we really want to discover our ideas, we just first diverge and then we converge, which means first we just list down all the new ideas that we have then we try to select the top two or top three, and that's when we converge. I think that is a stage when I would use my diplomacy, and I would like to multiple leaders actually aligned to one or two primary solutions. Because very important at the early stages ⁓ that have a consensus and alignment. And this can also come up with a lot of conflicts. And conflicts to be entertained in the organization because that's when you can have a democratic representation of every team. So that's when I play the role of a diplomat. Now, bulldozer, again, I did mention about it. is about when I see that something has been over time. There are folks who are actually really willing to actually contribute and try to over-perfect it. And there is lot of cognitive overload, cognitive time spent on it. And that's where I have to say, hey, even if it's a great idea, it's a discussion for another day. Today, Here is a scope log that we want to do and we want to move to the next level. So that's where I play the role of the bulldozer. hey, I need to unblock this. Let's move forward. ⁓ Joe Abreu - Glovisor: Enough is enough. can you share a real a real world example where alignment became the deciding factor in success or failure? Shristi Pranjal: Yeah, absolutely Joe. mean, whenever you're driving a big transformation, right, it's expected that there would be changes. But those changes need to be accepted across the organization. there are several teams, whenever you're actually redesigning a process, for example, it bound to impact different teams. Even if the process is a Perfect technical solution, you are using the best of the tools in the industry. But if it does not have the sign-off of the user growth, if it does not have the sign-off of the leaders who are getting impacted by this process flow, I think that's where your best of the tools would fail. In fact, adoption is also one of the areas that I would like to highlight. Have the best of the tools, but if it's not adopted well by the users, it's going to fall flat. And that is a real life example, having a fantastic tool, but not being adopted. And that's where business alignment plays a significant role. Take that alignment, have that difficult conversation ahead of the time so that you are not ending with surprises when you're actually about to roll out your product. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: Now we have a lot of younger listeners. so how can younger professionals start leading cross-functional change even when they don't manage a team yet? Shristi Pranjal: Mm-hmm. Yes, Joe. Like I mentioned, leadership starts much before you assume that title. So you don't need any formal tag of leadership actually to get into those kind of play. Few things that I try myself, I think that's what I would like to share with the youngsters. And that is definitely that you should try. Number one, try to identify the lateral teams you are working with. There would certainly certainly be some common problem statements. Across very various collateral teams. So work on those. Identify one or two problem statements. Do some research on that. Please take it forward with your manager. I'm pretty sure my manager was super supportive. Whenever I go ahead and project to him that hey, here is a problem that I've identified, which is also shared across you know different cross-ventional teams. I think we should definitely be solving. So that's the first step. The second step is doing your research. I mean, anybody who can be successful in this. needs to actually have a point of view. That means you should not always go with a problem statement. You should do your research, have a point of view. That what do you think about it? What is your recommendation? with information whenever you are speaking to leaders. The third point is every time if you get an opportunity to have some FaceTime with leaders of the cross-functional teams, the lateral teams, please seize that opportunity. I do not miss it. Every time I hear about some of the leaders visiting, you know, India sites, I try to get some FaceTime. And I do not make it all about myself. Even if I'm getting a 15-minute slot with them, here is what I do. I talk about what are the top two problems that keeping you awake. And that that actually gives you a good that actually gives you a good handle on whether you are looking at the right problem statements or not. Another point that I would like to highlight is to work on your network and influence and lateral leadership. reach out to people only when you need their help. Please reach out to learn, to know more about them. And that is going to pay you big rewards later on. I think these are some of the few things that you can do and it out yourself. Prepare yourself ahead of the time. If you're looking for a leadership position, if you really want to go to the next level, Show those attributes today. And final thing that I would like to say if you believe that work will speak for itself, it doesn't. Please seize opportunities where you can actually talk about your work. Not from the point of view of bragging, but actually showing that what is the impact that you're bringing. If you tell your managers, if you take them into confidence that here are the three things that I have done today or I'm planning to do. That is going to instill more confidence in your manager that hey, you're ready for the next level. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: That's great advice. And one of the things that that I find that is so is the networking. businesses are on the networking and I think fail to do that. It should be especially LinkedIn is such a great tool for us to connect with other business owners or people within the roles or other And as you said, ⁓ it's it's truly important to start making those connections and to develop and grow those relationships over time versus when I need you to connect me with someone or I need to ask for a favor. if you really want to have access to that, it's it's really building that relationship. So that's a really great point. but the other thing that that just stood out to me that you just mentioned is share some of your successes and the things that you do, but without bragging. Let's just say that I'm working at a company I've just identified something that possibly can be a great thing for my team. But there's always someone in the team who is the paper person, right? Who sort of takes the the the lead and and and and also takes sometimes some of the credit. would can you give maybe a of how someone can maybe amplify their message so that way they can be recognized as the person who brought the solution for their team. Shristi Pranjal: Yes. I mean it is a very common thing to hear from the youngsters that yes, I was not given the due credit. Someone else has taken the credit and how can I make sure that I'm counted? Here is what I do normally. but let me mention like Dell Dell is a great organization where we really appreciate it each other. I mean, recognition is part and parcel of our culture. But just for everybody to listen through and try this out. I would suggest that don't hesitate to actually bring the attention. For example, in a meeting room, there could be one person who would like to take it all. That, hey, I'm the one doing everything. politely but assertively, it is okay to mention: hey, would you also like to mention that I contributed on these two to three portions? That's one thing probably we can do. The second thing that everybody should definitely do. Is sending your manager a list of things that hey, here is what I achieved this week, two to three important things, and here is what I'm looking at for the next three week or whatever. Have 30, 60, 90 days plan. Share it openly with your manager during your one-on-one. If you're missing on your one-on-one, I think it's not a great thing. Please be visible to the managers. Please be visible to those lateral leaders who are actually going to impact. Or would be a good source for your feedback. Set up your one-on-ones, communicate those ideas and it. I think a lot of time it happens that we really want to hide because we that you're not confident enough. It's okay, you are experimenting with new things. Please put yourself out there and see what is the what are the that you get. So, three things in summary. Very politely then and there at that moment, do mention that hey, would you like to count these things that I exclusively contributed? Leaders are smart enough to read those signs. The second thing is do not miss your one-on-ones. And the third one, interact with your manager not through your FaceTime, but also via email. Give them a list of things that they would like to you have done, and the things that you are focusing for the next week. That gives them enough visibility. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: devise. So right now company is talking about AI. I mean you can't go to any company and that's not a discussion. from your perspective, what separates organizations that are truly transforming from AI or they're just, you know, just putting their toes into the water a little bit and experimenting? Shristi Pranjal: Have. I think three important things there. thing is how your leadership is invested. Are they just actually investing it via money, or are they ⁓ involved in it? So, what is the level of commitment that you have in the leaders? That's the single most distinguishing factor. Which means they would not just like to consume the status. They would like to understand, they would have the questions, they would like to see how this is developing. And again, I would like to emphasize how Dell is trying to implement that. I mean, we would see leaders not just trying to get a handle of what we are doing status, but they really want to understand, okay, what are the top lines we can impact via it? How we are going to make this available to the customers faster. So that's one, the the leadership commitment that is going to just distinguish. That is going to distinguish. The second one is your data readiness. In fact, today we have systems and data is fragmented. What most the organization in terms of implementing AI does is they really want to patch AI with the flood process. ⁓ It can very well happen that you have an agent which can pull information from two different sources because you have a legacy system and relying on two different tools. I think that is going to be a single biggest differentiator, how exactly you are trying to move your legacy systems to a data is actually decision ready and ready to consume AI. I think that's the second differentiator. The third one is going to be your AI fluency within the organization. I think with the advent of AI, one thing that has certainly happened that there is a natural fear in the employees that, okay, this is going to take away my job. But nobody's looking at the brighter side of the things, how it is going to transform your work, how you're going to create more space for yourself because a lot of admin tasks have been taken over. So the more the employees adopt it, learn and be fluent in it, I think it is going to differentiate big time. In fact, I would like to add a fourth layer to it, and that is going to be governance. Your model is not your flex. Models are available today, but what are the outcomes that you're generating for your organization using those models, using those data? I think that is going to be the key differentiator. Is your outcome biased? Are you taking care of the data drift? Is it actually Is it actually delivering the outcomes which it was promised for? I think those would be the key differentiators which is going to determine the success of an AI native organization, in my opinion, Joe. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: So th your fourth point brings up a a big, big question is what role does trust play in a successful AI transformation? Shristi Pranjal: I think it is single biggest differentiator, trust. If you don't trust a system, you are less likely to adopt it. You can spend millions and billions onto the organization. Let me give you one data point. In fact, I was reading through some of the market research and I was surprised that 95% of AI pilot projects actually fail, which means they are not delivering the right value. And I think one of the key reasons is the governance. Meaning Your cannot be an afterthought. That means, okay, now that we I have an outcome, is it compliant enough? I think it has to be inbuilt within the system itself. Whenever you're training the data, please have your risk assessed. That what are the possible areas where my data can be biased? and there are significant examples that is there website, open sources, which you can read about that how governance and the data bias can. ⁓ generate results that can be detrimental to gender, to a particular ethnic group, so on and so forth. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: Sure. But how can the leaders really balance that, the innovation with this responsibility that now they have to I guess roll as well? Because you can't just roll out this this new AI process without the responsibility. Shristi Pranjal: Absolutely, Joe. Glad that you brought this point. two things. I mean, there are plenty of things an organization can do. Let me focus on top two. Like I mentioned, it cannot be an afterthought. It has to be embedded. Governance has to be embedded at every layer, which means your which is out there on production, on life, that is not the only thing to be monitored. Then you're training your data, that's where it all starts. When you're conceptualizing, that's where it starts. So it has to be across the development lifecycle that you have right monitoring, evaluations at every layer, at every life cycle stages. That's one. The second thing as an organization is to actually take into account a lot of time we keep the focus only on the data that we are training on. But are we really seeing what outcomes it is achieving? Are we comparing that? Is that the intended outcome that we wanted? A lot of time miss on comparing the outcomes with what was intended. And think that's how we can make sure we are acting responsibly. There is a concept of AI governance body altogether, which can actually go ahead and keep a tag and review that. In fact, one of the points that I would add is to perform proper risk assessment. And adhering to the policies and guidelines which are released across the globe. In fact, we have several legal and ⁓ compliance check which been established today across various regions, especially EU, which takes into account AI governance. And I having a knowledge base of that, sensitizing the entire team ⁓ about its importance, it part and parcel of your culture and not just a technical check. I think those are some of the key things that we should be looking at when we truly want to be someone who is driving AI governance with responsibility. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: So how would you roll this out in an organization? Would this be a document by training ⁓ every to have a buy in? Because obviously if employees and leadership are not bought in, then it's gonna break apart anyway, so it doesn't ever come to work long term. so would you roll that out if you had the opportunity? Shristi Pranjal: Yes. I mean for AI governance, of course we have to start with the training itself. ⁓ hey, you have to ensure that the data that you have trained on, it is not biased. I can give you an example. for example, when we train the models with the pricing or promo sensitive information like what was inventory, what was a URM target. It's most likely that there are some top 20 or 30 percent of the products would have been more on promotion or would have changed the price more often on our website. Now, if I train my system on that, it is going to actually adopt that. It is going to believe to that to be true that hey, here are the top 20 products which need to be priced more often and which needs to be put more on promo. So that is a data bias, right? So Two things, I mean, definitely we have to train the entire organization at every level. That means if I'm a product manager, I have to ensure that I have the right evaluations in place. I have the right guard rates. That hey, I'm not going to accept a value if it is non-compliant there is zero tolerance for that. It should match 95% the time. So, what is the probability that you are ready to absorb? That threshold should really be high. need to train your model, you have to set you know hyperparameters and the temperatures in the right way. So you need to have those subject matter experts who can keep you truthful that how you're training your data. And if I have to roll that out, definitely that has to be part of your training all across the organization. It's not just one team looking at the compliance, it has to be across the product managers, it has to be across the developers, it has to be across the the Testers, everybody, like I mentioned, proper risk assessment. I think what are the possible risks which are there? There has to be a risk framework that needs to be established within the organization, which can help you identify: hey, here are the four risks or five risks, top five risks against which I should always be evaluating my model. It should be like a mandate. Joe. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: That's great. so now there are a lot of concerns when we're rolling out AI. So what would you say that is the most concerning for organizations when they're approaching AI? And what do you think is long term ramifications of it? Shristi Pranjal: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like I mentioned, governance. It is a big risk. The second biggest risk which I see is AI whitewashing. I mean, I was in a conference last to last week and there were a few folks who approached me and said, hey, if don't patch AI in this conversation, I don't get enough investor interest or the client does not get interested, which means there is a mindset that somehow we have to put AI into the conversation. Which is not the right approach. You need to identify, you need to redesign your entire process if you really want to implement the AI. If you really want to cover that journey from an AI pilot organization to someone which is AI native, you have to get your priorities right. You need to assess your maturity there. It cannot be a patchwork on your existing system. So that is again a big risk that I see and that worries me a bit. And like I mentioned, one of the data points, like ninety-five percent of the pilots fail because we feel that AI is part and parcel of I mean because we feel that AI is being we feel that AI is to be undertaken, the implementation needs to be undertaken by a certain team. And hence there is a certain level of excitement until a certain point, and then it gradually fades away when we see that it is not matching with the outcome that we expected. It needs the organization, the leadership to be systematically, continuously investing, understanding, reinventing with it. So it cannot be a It cannot be a period of high excitement and then abandoning it. You need to you know, invested into it thoroughly to actually realize the true benefit. Joe. ⁓ Joe Abreu - Glovisor: That makes sense. Now, on the flip side, excites you the most about the future? Shristi Pranjal: A lot of things Joe. I mean, I'm super excited to see how my own role is evolving, right? From just writing the business requirements, designing, deciding what and why, and now ⁓ AI, writing program specs, looking at the top projects greenfield opportunities in my own organization. So that is one thing that definitely excites me. that what is the future and what are the few things that we can completely transform? via this the use of AI. That's one. The second thing that really excites me is now that a lot of administrative overhead is taken over by the AI. So that frees up a lot of space for strategy. So I'm able to actually contribute majority of my time onto this. The third part is experimenting across the teams, which means I have an idea today. I have an engineering team with whom I can actually work, socialize, and we all can try, we all are getting started with it. And that is a great thing. And and that is a great place to be in where you have the leadership backup. You are experimenting and trying to see that how projects or how these initiatives are going to affect the top line of the organization, how we are delivering better values faster. I I think those are the things that That really excites me. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: Excellent. I want to continue some of these fun questions. What's one leadership trait that ⁓ product leader needs to have? Shristi Pranjal: Hmm, think it's not one, but if I have to actually count one, it's not just the customer empathy, but it's also to understand the customer pain points well, they would not exactly know what they need. But you need to actually figure out that what is the exact product that would match their pain points. So two things. Number one, having that product vision. second thing, having that curiosity to understand more about the customer pain points. The customer might not even know what is a product that they would need. It is your job as a product leader to understand the pain point and position a product which they never knew that existed and that is going to actually be super useful to them. So, in summary, great product vision and second one would be the product curio so two things the first one would be the curiosity to know more about the customer the customer growth the second would be a deep knowledge of of how your vision or how your product vision is going to solve their problem statements. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: A lot of good points today. but has there been a book, a podcast, a mentor that influenced you? Shristi Pranjal: I think at different stages, there were different leaders. ⁓ would definitely mention my own manager, Silas Carter. because he's someone ⁓ who has trained my team, entire organization, what a good and a great product can be distinguished. so he's one of those few people who have really inspired me to get into the products. Another book that I would mention by Marty Kagan that is Transformed. That is a great book that talks about how big transformation feels and how we can get it right. I think every product leader should definitely read this. like I mentioned, I mean there are plenty of great leaders out there who you learn from them. So those are the top few things that really inspires me, Joe. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: Great. someone's listening today who feels stuck, waiting for permission to lead, what you want them to remember? Shristi Pranjal: Yes, I mean just go for it. Don't overthink it. You are than what you think you are. The time is today. Lead with confidence. And do remember that drive and not the other way. So take that action, build that in memory ⁓ as a proof your success. And that will drive confidence. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: Great. where can people contact you and continue this conversation? Shristi Pranjal: So they can reach out to my LinkedIn and at the same time they can visit my website ShristiPranjal.com. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: Excellent. Shristi, this has been such a powerful conversation. I love the message that leadership isn't about waiting for authority. It's about creating alignment, removing obstacles, and helping people move forward. Thank you for joining us on the Glovisor Podcast. Shristi Pranjal: Thank you so much, Joe. It was a great conversation. Joe Abreu - Glovisor: Excellent. ⁓ thanks everyone for listening. If this episode inspired you, share it with someone who's ready to stop waiting for permission and start leading. And don't forget to follow the Glovisor Podcast for more conversations on leadership, communication, business growth, and personal development. Till the next time.