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The Duggar and IBLP Controversy | Episode 32 · Propaganda

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're listening to propaganda with Mick and Jacob.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: A bit of surprising news, but to no one's shock, another Duggar boy has been arrested for child molestation charges.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I hate to say it, but we kind of saw it coming.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you You have one bad apple and you have 19 kids.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like the abuse was kind of rampant in the home.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, that's I'm gonna get into that.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, Joseph Duggar, he's 31 and he's the seventh oldest child of Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't know who they are there, the giant family, they have 19 kids and they're stars of the hit reality TV show 19 Kins Accounting on TLC.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: That ran for a long time, and it ended because their oldest son, Josh, had child porn on his computer and he was arrested for that, obviously.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it came out earlier that he was like touching his sisters when he was.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, yes.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: But that was like a whole separate controversy.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there was anything like illegal with that because that was a while ago.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: The reason that it all came out was with the CP on his laptop or something, and he worked for a family business or something like that.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now you have to question though.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I thought that was just like a one-off, like whatever one sibling.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's like there's two of them.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: What's the problem here?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: So uh Joseph, he he's married to Kendra Caldwell.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Caldwell?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to say her last name, I'm sorry.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they now have four kids together, so they have a happy life, they're all good, whatever.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: But he was arrested, he was arrested on March 18th, so just over the weekend, and there were allegations of him molesting a minor back on a family vacation in Florida in 2020.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Allegedly, the victim was on vacation with the family, meaning Joseph and Kendra's family in Panama City Beach.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the victim was nine at the time, and she told authorities recently, so fast forward five years later, she's now 14.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: She told authorities that Joseph repeatedly asked her to sit on his lap and he later covered the two of them with a blanket and touched her inappropriately in her lower region.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And Joseph actually admitted to these charges when he was confronted by the father of the victim and authorities.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So he couldn't he fully, fully, fully admitted to it.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so they brought him into custody and now he's facing these charges.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: That they were on vacation with his wife's family.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Apparently that was like a yearly trip they did.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And he came on with them because they were married now, obviously, and they had their little kid with them.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's rumored to be it's her family, which I find interesting too, because that means he thought he's comfortable enough or could get away with it, or it would be unlock if anyone found out, you know, to where he thought he could get away with it and do something like that.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like this isn't some random kid if he's asking her to come to the house.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're on a family vacation.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're in a house together, they're right, yeah, comfortable enough where she's left alone with him.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's rumored, allegedly, that this is Kendra's younger sister, who just so happened to be nine in 2020 and would now be 14, and she would have been on vacation with them in Florida at the time.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, the stars are kind of aligning that it's her sister, which would also be disgusting.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's bad enough if it's if it's some random kid, right?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: But then to do that to your wife's sister, your sister-in-law, yeah, that's pretty, that's pretty messed up.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: But also the crazy thing right now is that Kendra, just the other day, March 20th, she was also arrested.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And she well, she turned herself in, but she was arrested in Arkansas and was charged with four counts of endangering the welfare of a minor and then four counts of secondary false imprisonment.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they have four kids.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that must have to do something with their kids.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe she wasn't handing them over to CPS.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like nothing's coming out.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's very weird.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: He is um, so he's now under new charges, like she is, so the same charges.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: They charge both of them, but hers is from Arkansas, right?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: His is actually from Florida because of the previous incident.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if the Arkansas thing for now both of them changes it.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Joseph also faces the same charges as Kendra.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So he does the four impr false imprisonments and then the four.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but he has to go to Florida too for the right.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So he so that's why Joseph is detained.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's in pr he's held in custody for these four counts of false imprisonment and then the four counts of endangering the welfare minor.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Kendra's also facing those, but she was let out on bond for 1400, which was crazy to me.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's it, really?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: But she's out.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So she faces the same charges he did, he does, which means it would lead you to believe it's some sort of husband-wife conspiracy.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: They both knew something, let it slide, didn't get people the proper help.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the child endangerment.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's very of course, because things won't come out until things are more out in the open with the case.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: But we don't know what that I mean.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: They have four kids and she faces four charges.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, but because she was let on a bond, she can obviously go back to her family.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Joseph still is held in jail and he's with authorities because he has the Florida charges for the child molestation.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: So he'll go to Florida and face those charges, but right now he's still in Arkansas and Kendra's out.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Crazy stuff.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So is she allowed to see the kids or does she have to be kept separately?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Why aren't they saying what these charges like the charges are, but like they're not saying what led them to it, why she turned herself in, why he's also involved with the same charges.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: These are they sound more recent?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is this back from 2020?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: If so, why no?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: The charges are from March 20th, Kendra.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying, is the crimes alleged back from 2020 or are they from recently, and that's why it's both of them in Arkansas?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a strange situation.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: It is kind of weird.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's rumored that CPS is all over the Duggar home.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if more people will face charges or I it's about time they go to that home.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, with Josh, with the things with Josh and now this kid, I mean, like you said, once is okay, fine.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: You have one bad apple out of 19.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little weird you have that bad of an apple because you claim to be Christian, but then to have two with kind of the same issues, what's going on?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, parents aren't directly responsible for all their kids' behavior, but it is interesting when you have two kids now that we know of that are turned out pretty bad.
• 6:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like you do have to wonder, like, well, what are the parents, what's going on in the home?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are the parents teaching them?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: How does this keep happening?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we know from before that they brushed everything under the rug with his with when uh the oldest one Josh was touching his sisters.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean like and you also just don't brush one thing under the rug.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's probably more, unfortunately.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not even the main thing that I want to get into today.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I also wanted to get into what the Duggars are part of, and you kind of let into that.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what what are they exactly teaching them in the home?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: They claim to be Christian, and I want to make it so clear to everyone that that's not Christianity.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have a hard time believing that the Duggars are Christian because of what they follow.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: They follow the IBLP, the Institute for Basic Life Principles.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: That to me, from the studying and the research I've done and what I've heard from survivors of that cult, it is not Christianity.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And nowhere, nowhere near Christianity.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's irritating because now people will take the story of Josh, of Josh and Joseph and the Duggar family, and they'll they'll point fingers and say, see, this is what Christianity is, this is what the Bible produces.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: These Christians are not to be trusted.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the Duggars were the face of like homeschool conservative Christianity for what, like 15 years, like if not longer.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So well, that's wrong.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think they should be the face of it because they don't represent it properly.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: They never have.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: The IBLP is a denomination of Christianity.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I like that I don't think it's Christianity.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: I believe the IBLP is a cult that hides behind the term Christianity so that it's more appealable to people.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: But they have churches, they have curriculum, they have the whole shebang, they are huge advocates for homeschooling, and they're they're the classic, like the wife is is at home, the man works, and the wife homeschools the kids, and you know, basically what you think of a conservative Christian family would be that's them.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Except it's really not behind the scenes.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really the sad part people mix up, is that they think it is just like Christians, just like Baptists or just like non-denomination Christians.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: But the main idea with the IBLP seems to be if I follow these rules, then I will be blessed.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not that is not at all what the Bible teaches.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So Bill Gothard, he is the man that founded the IBLP, and he created a bunch of curriculum, a bunch of teachings.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: He's like the head pastor, the main, the main guy.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And his curriculum is dangerous because he inserts a lot of his own opinions and his own interpretations of the Bible, and that's what these people think they have to follow.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have they don't think they have to follow the Bible, they think they have to follow whatever Bill Gothard says.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the dangerous part, is because now you're not following Jesus or God, you're following a man.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, true Christianity is following the Bible and the principles God and Jesus laid out for us in that they showed us in his word.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's the true example of what following Christ would be like and what Christianity should be like.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not following a man-made religion and using the Bible as guidelines for it, you know, or as like you're backing up what the guy says with the Bible.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: It should be the opposite.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: It should be, no, you're using the Bible as your life, and then you can check other people to make sure what they're telling you is true Christianity and what's actually coming from the Bible and what Jesus Christ would be wanting us to be taught.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's the problem with it.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: They have it backwards, and it turns out they have some pretty messed up ideals and standards of what Christianity should be.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's a big theme within their curriculum.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and by the way, if you're homeschooled, you have to use their curriculum, which I mean, come on, guys.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, already you're like, okay, you know, you can only use what they produce, what they manufacture.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but within their curriculum, for all the kids and for all the Bible studies, whatnot, the big theme within that curriculum and those Bible studies is about following rules.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if you follow those rules, Bill Gothard's rules, not even the Bibles, then God is happy with you and you're promised a fulfilling life.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not at all what the Bible says.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: In Ephesians, it says, For by grace you have been saved through faith and not of yourselves.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: It is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not Bill Gothard's teaching that gets you to heaven.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not even the works, the good works that you think might be from the Bible that gets you to heaven.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's through grace, it's through Jesus Christ alone.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Titus 3, 5 through 7 says, He has saved us and called us to a holy life, not because of anything we have done, but because of his own purpose and grace.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Again, not because of anything we have done, not because of rules or standards or written ideas that we came up with and we want to follow to prove we're worthy of Christ.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: We've been chosen by Christ through purpose, through his purpose and grace.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's the whole point of salvation.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: We we need him.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't need us to follow his his rules and written made-up things that other people have deemed.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: We need him.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And as a Christian, you want to obey Jesus and you want to follow his teachings and his beliefs and live them out to the best you can and live a pure and holy life.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: But the requirements for salvation are not abiding by written rules.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: The requirements for salvation are believing in Jesus Christ alone through grace and that he can provide salvation essentially from our sins.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's what true salvation is from Christ, not a written man-made checklist.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what they kind of treated as a checklist.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I do this, this, this, I do XYZ, and then I can have a happy life.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I can be okay.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in favor of God.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting too, because they also they put blessed as in like earthly favor as well.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the Bible says that Jesus Christ will bless those who obey him, bless those who listen to him.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't understand that it always or necessarily means materially.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: The way Bill Gothert's teachings sound, and the way that they believe it, sounds like you follow these rules so that you can be blessed here, and then also you're following them to be in God's favor.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like we should be following the rules God has given us because we want to please and serve and honor him.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Not to get to heaven.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we're not following rules, and we're certainly not following man-made rules.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or to have a good time here on earth, you know?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or to get some sort of reward or investment return here on earth.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how it works.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: It falls apart quickly when you actually read the Bible they claim to be teaching from.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: But like the the Bible also never promises an easy life either.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: It actually says that Christians will have a harder life because we're not of this world and we're not supposed to take partake in sinful activities in this world.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: So naturally, we're the minority, we're excluded, and we're gonna have a harder time because of it.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, no, and we're not gonna have this beautiful, lovely.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we can, but it's not gonna just because we follow the Bible doesn't mean we're gonna have this perfect life and it's gonna be happy, sunshine, rainbows, all the time.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: But another thing in the in Bill Gothard's teaching, um, suffering is spiritualized.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And this is like the crazy part, and this makes me so sad because this isn't fake.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you you can look into this yourself.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but victims have come forward about being sexually abused, and when they're counseled by Bill Gothard, they're told to thank their abuser because it's made them spiritually stronger.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: The the suffering has made them closer to God.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's so backwards.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not gonna go into specific victim stories.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's quite a few, and I I won't go into the specifics of these victim stories, but if you want to read more about it, I don't know.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Have you seen the documentary Shiny Happy People?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's that goes into IBLP and the Duggar and everything that happens behind closed doors, and they have a few victims on and they have stories that are similar to this.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sad, and this is biblically wrong as well.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, while a Christian's path might be harder, that doesn't mean that when we get abused, it's a sign of spiritual strength and that we're doing something right.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: You won't find that anywhere in the Bible.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Nowhere.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Read the whole thing, I dare you.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: You won't find a single verse on that.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: That it's okay for your father, your husband, or a man in the church to abuse you and you thank them for it.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Please.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: The Bible says through adversity and through trials and hardships, we will grow closer to Christ, and it should bring us closer to Christ.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that Christ uses good and evil things for the betterment of us and for our spiritual, I guess, our spiritual maturity and relationship with Him.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it says like, oh, I want bad things to happen.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: I hope bad things happen so that I get closer to Christ.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, that means that you lean on God when bad things are happening to you.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: That means that you go through these trials not through your own strength, but you take God's strength and you get through it because you don't get through it on your own.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a victim of something like this, you don't say thank you and move on.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: You say you can forgive them in your heart and you can forgive, you can forgive them toward to God.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: But in a situation like this, we've also established a law in moral order, which is also instructed in the Bible, you know, governments in moral orders and following God's word.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: This person should be prosecuted and brought to the right authorities for the proper, I don't know, punishment to be served out.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: You don't just say thank you and move on.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's not that's not biblical either.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean that's so crazy to me, but it's not crazy to them.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's a totally normal explanation for something for what might happen.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they also follow the crazy train of well, the reason that someone might sexually abuse you.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: If a man sexually abused a woman, then it's her fault because the woman is responsible for the man's actions, essentially actions.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um they're taught that it's the women are taught that it's sinful to refuse their husband's desire for sex, and men can't control their sexual urges.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if the women withhold that from them, withhold their wifely duties, then they may cause their husband to stumble because he can't contain all of this.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So he's gonna release it somewhere else, and it might be on her, it might be on another woman, he might cheat, or he might look at CP.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the Bible talks about withholding sex from your marital spouse.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: It talks about that for men and women, and it's essentially in the form of not out of anger or resentment or to get even with someone.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't say that under no circumstances ever, you always have to do that for no reason.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, and if it's not, it's a sin.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's talking about you're not supposed to withhold that from them.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's what's one more example out.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's one more example that these people would use to twist or alter or change the biblical text that God's given us to fit their worldview and to fit their narrative.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to look at the Bible verse and you have to look at what it talks what it's talking about.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: You don't necessarily need to see a man-made perspective from it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can get different views and points and then kind of based off what you think the Bible says, but the most important thing is that you read the verse and decide what it means.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: God's written the Bible to be very specific and very clear about a lot of things.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I understand there's disagreements and differences here and there, and people would argue, oh, gray about this, this or that.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: But not in these cases, not in most cases.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: In most cases, the Bible is meant to be read as God has given it to us.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually makes a lot less room for error when you do it, like when you interpret the Bible that way, as opposed to just assigning a worldview to it and then trying to get out from the text what you might want.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's what these people seem to do.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: They they seem to have these like weird, perverted fantasies, and they're like, well, here's the Bible verse to back that up.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because in Corinthians, it's 1 Corinthians 7, verse 4, it says the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: But if they read a little further, it says in the same way, a husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: When you marry, you become one.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're no longer two separate people.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: You have joined together, you are one flesh, you are one unit.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: You are you are married together in Christ, you know?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it should be understood that what they're talking about here applies for men and women.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what they're talking about here isn't just, oh, I demand this and you give me this, or it's a sin, or I demand this and you don't give it to me, therefore it excuses any other action I'm about to commit because of it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's certainly not in the Bible.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So so far, yeah, yeah, the IBLP is not really lining up with the Bible as they claim, which means they wouldn't really be true Christians.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: But we can take it even further, okay?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Higher education is denied for women.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: They don't get careers, they don't get the choice to do anything else but be a homemaker, essentially.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: They live under the authority of a man.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: First, her father, and then second, her husband.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And this is wrong again.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: The woman we follow throughout this chapter in Proverbs 31 is seen as a business woman.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: She's handling finances, she's making decisions for the home.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: She considers a field and she buys it.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't sound like a woman that just sits inside and nobody cooks.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: What it sounds like is that the woman is in charge of the house and the home in the property and taking care of that and overseeing that while the husband is out making the living and earning things at work.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it sounds like to me.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Not that she has to be at home making bread all day while the husband makes money, and then he comes home and demands anything of her.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like it's actually a partnership, a team, a marriage where one spouse does one thing, the other spouse does the other thing, and together they make it work.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it sounds like to me.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't say, oh, she had no education, it was a stupid broad that was only told to make food when and sandwiches when her husband told her to.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, she's out within the marketplace, she's making financial decisions, she oversees the household, she has servants that do the cooking and cleaning, actually.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like these people don't read it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy to me.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's sad too.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of women stay in this because they think they have no other choice.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because okay, but also people will argue that oh, women don't have to be homemakers or don't have to take care of the house and stuff.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, no, that's not necessarily true either.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: The man's job is to protect and provide, and the woman's job, I would say, is to take care of the home, take care of the people in it, and make sure things run well, which is what the Bible backs up, what the verses say.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't say homeschool your 27 kids and don't do anything else.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, right.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's not exactly biblical either.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I hate the idea too that when they say when they say the man is the head of the household, it's like these people take that idea and they think that the man is automatically the ruthless dominating authority over everyone else in the household, including his wife.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you just said they were partnership, they're a team.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And a team has a leader, obviously, but that doesn't make them this force that doesn't listen to anything anyone says and just does what he wants, and he demands perfection from everyone underneath him.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, a leader actually is a servant, and we see that in Christ.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: He gets down, he washes his disciples' feet.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: We also see that in a biblical marriage, as Christ is married to the church, and that's the structure he sets up, it is a woman is married to her husband, in kind of the church to Jesus, and then the husband is also responsible and held under and under the authority and leadership of Jesus Christ.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: As is the woman too.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: But there is there is a structure to it, because the structure is an institution, a partnership, a team, like you're saying, that marriage is.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the Bible clearly lays that out.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and there's so much.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: You could go down a rabbit hole with this stuff, with the IBLP things and what exactly it says, what exactly people experience in this cult and what is coming out of that cult.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Bill Gothard, remember the man that actually founded it and made up these teachings and these Bible studies and the curriculum.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: He's faced sexual, physical, and psychological abuse allegations, and he's had to resign from the IBLP.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing came of it.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's not in jail for it, but he resigned and he faces the alligate and he faces these allegations.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of women actually come out of this cole and they say, yeah, he was a horrible man, actually.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: He was terrible to co-workers, he was terrible to the women that he worked with, and he forced himself on a lot of people.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the men around him that were on the board with him and are higher up in that community face a lot of the same issues.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would not be surprised if one day funky stuff comes out about Jim Bob too.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I really wouldn't.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I'm not surprised that another Duggar has also faced issues.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, CP is a whole nother story than just mistreating women.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: I get it, I do.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: This shows, though, that when you substitute God, when you substitute Christ and his authority and leadership in his word in religion, when you substitute that for man-made indoctrination in man-made rules and regulations, it doesn't end well.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's perverted, and it's actually it's a separation.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's like a toxic it's a toxic portrayal of what Christianity should be like, what a true follower of Christ is.