Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 90: The Truth About Conflict in Relationships (Especially After Betrayal)

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90: The Truth About Conflict in Relationships (Especially After Betrayal) · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

0:00
All right, guys, so we're back at it.
0:01
This is the part of the phase two series focused on our
0:05
curriculum inside of Choose recovery Services for men.
0:08
Again, Phase 2 is that the more that relational part of the
0:11
journey with relationship inside of self relationship with
0:13
partner. And so we're going through one
0:16
at a time and talking about the modules we have within the
0:18
course. So whether you're a part of the
0:21
program or not, hopefully there's some Nuggets in here
0:24
inside here for you. In the previous episode, we
0:26
explored destructive relational patterns like betrayal,
0:29
violence. So this episode's going to move
0:32
more towards the next step as we learn how conflict can actually
0:37
become productive and helpful in healing instead of destructive.
0:43
So we're not going to shy away from conflict, we're just not
0:47
going to do it in a, in a violent or destructive manner.
0:51
And we're going to talk about how a lot of us weren't really
0:54
taught how to handle conflict or handle it well or what the
0:56
purpose of it was even for. So I came from an organization
1:01
when I was back in corporate America before I was doing the
1:03
recovery stuff for my career, I was in the packaging industry
1:10
and I remember learning about something called social styles.
1:14
And social styles was talking about how you could take a
1:17
personality assessment and you could talk about how you, I
1:20
don't know, connect with other people, exchange information,
1:24
socialize. And it would, it gave you an
1:27
opportunity for different styles.
1:29
There was a driver and analytical and expressive and an
1:32
amiable anyway. And they show differently
1:35
socially. And I remember learning and I
1:38
found this fascinating. If you have an organization and
1:42
you want a really solid organization to thrive, you
1:47
don't want all your leaders have the same style of communication,
1:52
same social style. You want different ones.
1:55
And why would you want that as an organization?
1:57
Because it would eliminate blind spots.
1:59
So it would create a lot of conflict internally as an
2:03
organization. But you would technically thrive
2:06
because people would be more aware of the other people around
2:10
them if they could handle conflict well.
2:12
And I think about those organizations and man, I think
2:15
about even choose recovery services and having a diverse
2:19
experience matters in life. So that's what we're going to
2:24
jump in today is we're going to talk about why conflict matters
2:27
and what the world has to do with relationally that peace.
2:34
Welcome to Beyond the Facade podcast.
2:36
I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and I'm thrilled to have you join me
2:39
in this space today. What we're going to be doing is
2:41
diving deep into the trials and triumphs and truths of seeking
2:45
authenticity. Becoming your true self isn't
2:47
about a single action or a moment.
2:49
It's a relentless pursuit, a commitment to self that reveals
2:53
the rich connection and meaning that our life has to offer.
2:56
So whether this is your first time tuning in or you're a
2:58
regular listener, know this what you're building here goes beyond
3:02
a conversation. You're here to challenge, to
3:04
change, and to celebrate the incredible journey of becoming
3:07
your authentic self. Because when you dare to show up
3:10
fully, the rewards are immeasurable.
3:12
So welcome to Beyond the Facade. Let's get started.
3:17
So let's jump into it. I don't know what you thought
3:20
about that. And you're like, hey, Luke, I'm
3:21
not here to talk about corporate America or some or a job.
3:24
I want to learn about recovery. So let's tie it in.
3:27
I'm going to go back one more time to my previous life.
3:32
I didn't like that. I didn't like being in a
3:35
leadership role when other leaders that were peers with me
3:40
thought about things differently or we didn't see the same way.
3:45
I felt uncomfortable for me. Why?
3:47
Because I was an amiable because I like cohesion.
3:50
I like it when people are getting along.
3:51
I don't like it when somebody's got their feathers ruffled.
3:55
So I think there was some good parts of that.
3:57
I think I was the guy that was making teams work smoothly, but
4:02
there wasn't people some really big blind spots because I didn't
4:06
know why conflict mattered and why it was important.
4:10
And I think I would tie this back into my family of origin.
4:13
There were certain emotions that I was not allowed to fill.
4:17
Like I remember thinking, I remember not that long ago my
4:23
therapist talking to me about anger and why anger mattered and
4:27
the fact that I was bottling stuff up and it was showing up
4:30
in resentment. And he talked to me about
4:32
feeling anger compared to acting on anger.
4:36
And he talked about noticing what it brought up inside of me.
4:40
So when I was a little guy, I remember getting angry a couple
4:45
different times and it really being shut down.
4:47
And I remember pretty well it was me being a little guy with
4:51
difference of opinion, different thoughts, different perspective.
4:56
And you know, and I'm not faulting the people that raised
4:59
me. I'm not.
5:01
And I'm not even just talking about my parents, just talking
5:03
about who took care of me in general.
5:06
Not going to fault any because I know that passed that down.
5:09
But I lost my own voice. And I didn't know how a chance
5:12
to really lean into that and say, hey, I feel this way.
5:16
How do you feel that impacted me?
5:19
What is that like for you? Because it was just scary and I
5:23
had to draw a conclusion because anger wasn't accepted or a
5:28
difference of opinion or thoughts so much.
5:30
I had to draw on a conclusion and saw a little bit of the
5:34
result of why. And what I did is I recognized
5:39
that causes disconnection, that in your relationship, it's going
5:44
to be changed and altered if you do lean into that.
5:48
So I didn't know how to I didn't know there were a healthy
5:50
conflict or not there is Kim Brown.
5:53
She's one of our coaches here. Choose your coverage services
5:56
she get. I don't know if it was her
5:57
phrase or not. Maybe I brought it up in the
5:59
past, but she speaks to men and or the betraying partner and
6:06
says change the way you look at her trigger when she's
6:11
triggered. Notice that and when she's
6:14
talking to you about her trigger notice that is a a vulnerable
6:19
attempt at connection. And I just love that so much
6:24
like when she's coming and and she is the betrayed partner is
6:29
coming and sharing something with you coming or what she's
6:32
noticing what she's seeing. That's an attempt to connect.
6:36
And the scariest thing about a relationship was one you're the
6:39
betrayed partner stops trying to connect, stops trying to share,
6:45
doesn't share traders. I think some of the guys I work
6:47
with would consider that a good week if there wasn't her sharing
6:51
that emotion. But I'm like, whoa, don't get
6:54
too excited about that because that could be getting closer to
6:57
the end if your partner's just given up on sharing her stuff.
7:01
Yeah, she might not leave maybe the relationship itself, but
7:06
she's at least leaving the opportunity to connect and the
7:10
opportunity. So just those difficult
7:12
conversations are really important and really valuable
7:16
depending on how I attend to them.
7:18
So one thing that might be helpful as we tackle the subject
7:20
is before we go further in and talk about conflict, I want to
7:26
clarify what is actually meant when we use the word conflict.
7:30
When I say conflict, I'm not talking about yelling or
7:32
fighting or chaos in a relationship.
7:35
Conflict simply means that you have two people that have
7:38
different experiences, needs, and perspectives about
7:42
something, and healthy relationships actually require
7:45
the ability to navigate those differences.
7:47
Now, I recognize depending on where you're at, what phase of
7:50
your journey you're in, there might not be space for you to
7:53
really share your experience. If you're the betraying partner,
7:56
and that makes sense, that's fine.
7:58
There's nothing wrong with that. That's not a lack of
8:00
healthiness. It just shows the where the
8:02
safety exists. But there is going to be right
8:07
now for sure your ability to be able to have lean into conflict
8:10
if your partner sharing what they're experiencing.
8:13
OK, so the so when I use the word conflict over and over
8:17
again, I'm just meaning the difference of experience, the
8:21
difference of needs, the difference of perspectives,
8:23
super healthy. OK, so let's go back to what we
8:27
learned about conflict growing up.
8:28
So I'm just going to ask you these questions.
8:30
What did you learn about conflict growing up?
8:33
Was conflict avoided? Did difficult conversations?
8:37
Did they not happen? Did you see people that
8:40
disagreed? How did they go about
8:41
disagreeing? How did they go about
8:44
perspective sharing or problems ignored?
8:47
Where they slept? Underneath the rug was emotional
8:50
expression. Did it feel unsafe?
8:52
So maybe conflict was avoided or maybe this conflict was
8:55
explosive. You have arguments where there
9:00
was a lot of yelling. Where's this bunch of criticism
9:02
or blame or character attacks or people tried to win rather than
9:07
be understood? It was about like, you win the
9:09
conversation and that says something about you, right?
9:13
Or maybe this third one, conflict ended with withdrawal.
9:17
So that was what I was talking about earlier and noticed the
9:21
conflict when it came up and it was squashed.
9:24
If it wasn't squashed, it was somebody was running away,
9:26
somebody shut down emotionally, somebody walked away,
9:30
Conversation ended without resolution.
9:32
So just notice and look at your relationship for the betraying
9:38
partner, look at your relationship today.
9:40
What felt safe when it came to conflict?
9:42
Was it because your partner can actually lean into it and you
9:45
didn't know how to? Was it felt safe because there
9:47
was a lot of conflict in your home growing up and now there
9:50
wasn't conflict. But then later in relationship
9:53
when it started to come up, you're like, I don't know what
9:54
to do with this. And what did your partner say
9:57
about you when it comes to conflict?
10:00
If you would ask him that question, Do you know, maybe you
10:03
ask him what do you think about it when you bring a different
10:06
perspective to me, how do I show up to that dialogue?
10:09
Maybe you've had that conversation a million times,
10:12
but just remember, we often repeat what we learned instead
10:15
of responding intentionally. OK, So can I say that again?
10:19
When conflict happens, often we repeat what we learned instead
10:24
of responding intentionally. Like I'm going to choose how I
10:26
respond, right? All right, so maybe just just to
10:32
remember why conflict feels so threatening.
10:34
The biology, the science behind this conflict activates the
10:39
nervous system. When someone hears, like,
10:40
criticism or disappointment or anger, the brain can really
10:45
interpret that as like a danger rather than information.
10:49
OK, so again, it's going, there's going to be an
10:53
interpretation. So is it interpreting like
10:56
danger or is it like, hey, there's something here?
10:59
So this activates our survival response.
11:02
So our our body's going to shift.
11:04
It's going to shift into fight, flight or freeze.
11:06
We talked about them a bunch of times, fight defending and
11:08
arguing like we're going to avoid, we're going to leave the
11:11
conversation freeze, we're going to shut down emotionally.
11:16
So This is why recovery, when you go to therapy, coaching and
11:23
it's work, you're not just attending to the rational part
11:27
of your brain, the part of it that can get it in a group
11:29
setting, right? You're actually attending that
11:32
stuff that's stored inside of your body that tells you that
11:37
criticism or anger or disappointment is danger, right?
11:42
Instead of a threat. So we have to address that
11:45
somatically inside of our body, right?
11:47
We have to notice how we're wired like that, because those
11:50
are very specific neural pathways.
11:51
That's very specific patterns. That is, this is about our
11:55
autonomic nervous system, OK? That's why people with the good
11:59
intentions can't react in ways that escalate that conversation.
12:03
So learning healthy conflict means learning how to stay
12:07
regulated long enough to stay present.
12:10
So I have to know what's happening inside my body.
12:12
I have to be able to sense it. That's why I love working with
12:15
men and the work that I've done that I've hated that now I value
12:19
so much, which is, hey, what's going on inside of you right
12:22
now? What do you experience?
12:23
What do you notice inside your body?
12:24
Where do you notice it? Where do you see it?
12:26
Because if I can't notice, if I don't know where it's at, I
12:28
can't identify, don't have awareness around it, I'm going
12:32
to respond just the way that I'm used to, right?
12:36
In ways that I've learned rather than intentionally.
12:40
All right. So now I don't, I don't even
12:42
want to bring this word in because if it's misconstrued or
12:46
weaponized, it's really problematic.
12:48
But I got to make this transition.
12:50
This is why boundaries matter in conflict.
12:53
This is where boundaries come into the conversation.
12:55
So when emotions are high and the nervous system is activated,
12:59
people need structure inside the conversation.
13:03
OK, they need a blueprint, A playbook, and boundaries create
13:09
that kind of structure. So if you because we need to
13:12
know do I might typically trying to control another person when I
13:15
lean into the conflict. This is where boundaries, your
13:20
blueprint, your process, help us get regulated and communicate
13:25
clearly somewhere where you might not be able to participate
13:28
in it right away. So let me give you an example.
13:31
So instead of saying you need to stop yelling or you need to stop
13:35
talking to me that way because you're trying to control the
13:39
other person, a boundary might say something like, I want to
13:43
stay connected in this conversation, but the voices
13:45
inside me, my parts are getting louder and louder.
13:49
So I need to take a break for a moment and come back to this
13:52
calmly. And that's my responsibility to
13:55
come back to it. But I need to get regulated.
13:58
So boundaries create that safety and that clarity during that
14:02
conflict. So then I can get regulated and
14:04
come back. Then I can re engage in that
14:07
conversation. And there's so many examples of
14:11
boundaries. I don't engage in certain types
14:15
of dialogue. And this is, let me tell you,
14:17
it's where it's weaponized. If all you take from this
14:20
conversation is I don't need to communicate to my partner,
14:22
that's problematic. OK, If I just like I'm going to
14:25
create a bunch of boundaries. So no, I don't need to be
14:28
vulnerable. It means boundaries create a
14:31
place where you can be emotionally attuned to somebody
14:34
else, where you can be regulated and commutative through that
14:39
experience. We're going to take a quick
14:41
break for a moment. I want to let you know of some
14:43
things that we have coming up at Choose Recovery Services.
14:50
If you're a man who's trying to show up differently for your
14:52
partner after betrayal, then listen closely.
14:54
The Helper Heal Intensive is a four day immersive experience
14:57
built for men who are ready to take responsibility, build
15:01
emotional skill and become safer partners.
15:03
This isn't talk therapy, it's a hands on training and how to
15:06
regulate, listen and respond without getting defensive when
15:10
things get hard at home. You'll work alongside other men
15:13
who are also serious about change in a focused,
15:16
confidential setting so you're not trying to figure this out
15:19
alone. My name is Hallie Roderick and
15:21
I'm both a professional and someone who's lived through
15:23
betrayal recovery. Our team is here to give you the
15:26
structure, the tools, and the feedback you need to show up
15:29
with consistency and integrity in a way that supports real
15:33
safety for your wife. You'll leave with a clear plan
15:36
for how to act differently, communicate better, and continue
15:39
rebuilding trust when you go home.
15:42
Check out the show notes For more information or how to
15:44
register. If you're serious about helping
15:46
her heal, this is where you start.
15:51
Well, let's get back to our episode.
15:54
So what healthy conflict actually looks like is it
15:56
doesn't mean the absence of emotion and again, more things
16:00
that could be weaponized, but just there's a lot of trust here
16:04
that exists of sharing this with your partner and talk about the
16:07
concept and you're not going to weaponize it.
16:09
So listen to me through the whole thing.
16:11
So this means a healthy conflict does not mean the absence of
16:15
emotion. So we are supposed to be sharing
16:18
our emotion, right? It means navigating the
16:21
difficult conversation in a way that maintains that respect and
16:24
that safety. And that means often that I'm
16:27
going to be that was really like the really strong emotions.
16:32
I'm actually noticing that I'm processing them and in a safe
16:37
place that might not be with that person.
16:38
And then I'm bringing those emotions to that conversation
16:41
and regulated place. So that a lot of ownership here
16:45
has to matter. So speaking from a from personal
16:47
experience, instead of accusation, making up this what
16:51
I'm experiencing inside, rather than saying, Hey, you're
16:53
responsible for how I'm feeling. And if you're the betrayed
16:57
partner, just notice if your partner doesn't have space to
17:02
hear your emotion, that makes sense.
17:05
If there's betrayal involved, you're like, I really want to
17:09
share that. I feel like the this isn't like
17:12
fair right now, like what we're experiencing, noticing that.
17:16
Well, my responsibility in that, like me sharing emotion might
17:20
not be in that moment with that person or probably is not going
17:23
to be with that person, but I'm definitely going to need to
17:25
share that emotion with somebody else.
17:28
But safe. That is going to be able to
17:29
validate me, but also create some accountability and some
17:32
ownership. And then I can share that
17:34
emotion with my partner again from a regulated place.
17:39
OK, let's notice one other thing with boundaries.
17:42
Boundaries are rules for myself to follow, not for somebody else
17:47
to follow. So what I say exists inside of
17:50
myself isn't So what? What I think the world should
17:53
abide by, it's what I believe I need in order to be conversation
17:57
and relational with somebody. So here's some of the examples.
18:01
So I might have. And like, instead of
18:03
interrupting or preparing a defense, which is something that
18:07
I do often, I find myself listening to prepare my defense.
18:12
I recognize I need to pause and reflect.
18:15
I need to tell the person I care about that I'm talking to what
18:19
they heard. So if I can't repeat back, hey,
18:22
this is what I think you're trying to tell me.
18:24
I'm not sticking to the rules. I set it for myself of making
18:26
sure that I'm not interrupting and preparing A defence.
18:29
And I have a hard time preparing for a defence and actually not
18:34
having internal dialogue when I'm needing to remember what
18:37
this person is talking about it. So I can reflect it back to him
18:40
and say, OK, I think I'm following you.
18:43
This is what I hear you talking about.
18:45
So that brings me into more of a curious type mindset.
18:47
So I'm trying to understand the emotional meaning behind what
18:51
somebody's trying to say. That's where I love.
18:53
It's a different topic for another day, but this is love
18:57
where I love AVR to see AVR curiosity, acknowledge, validate
19:02
and respond. I can't do that unless I
19:04
actually am listening. One of my favorite examples or
19:08
things that happen all the time, which is the rupture and repair
19:11
stuff. So the example might be you were
19:15
able to talk to your partner and you say, hey, yesterday's
19:18
conversation, it didn't go the way that I'd hoped it would.
19:21
It's not what I'm actually wanting to have.
19:22
I'd like to try that again and do a better job listening,
19:25
engaging. Remember, leaning into conflict
19:28
isn't about getting the first conversation right.
19:30
Your first conversation, when it feels good, it's coming back to
19:33
it and saying, hey, can we try that again?
19:35
Because these skills, they don't eliminate conflict, but they're
19:39
going to help conflict become more productive instead of
19:42
destructive because I have a process for it.
19:44
So just remember boundaries. And what do yours consist of to
19:47
where you can stay relational? All right, so learning healthy
19:52
conflict. I feel like we've been doing all
19:55
this a lot in podcast for this compassion piece.
20:00
What's a dialogue you have with yourself over and over again as
20:04
you lean into conflict? Are you always pointing out the
20:07
things that don't go that well when it comes to self talk about
20:10
yourself? Man, I just can't get this
20:11
right. And I'm just so bad at this.
20:14
I just, I can't figure this out. Also, notice the areas that it's
20:20
important to give yourself some compassion and grace for because
20:25
it can feel slow, it can feel awkward.
20:27
But over time, these skills allow difficult conversations to
20:31
become safer. So there, there's what we're
20:34
trying to develop is some tolerance for conflict.
20:38
So you that muscle, that tolerance for conflict, for
20:41
those emotions, it's not going to fill, you're not going to be
20:44
able to engage enough for very long.
20:47
But if you're very intentionally about engaging with your
20:51
partner, then you're going to be able to start to fill those
20:56
muscles build and your ability to be able to your tolerance
20:59
level is going to go up for engaging in conflicts.
21:02
So that progress is going to happen through practice, OK,
21:05
through engaging over and over again, not through necessarily
21:08
nailing the conversation, not from getting it right, not to
21:11
where everybody's hugging and kissing at the end, but it's
21:15
through doing it over and over again.
21:18
That's why I love check in so much.
21:20
When there's a systematic planned check in where you're
21:25
actually creating opportunity for conflict to happen, I think
21:29
that can be really helpful because we know we can plan on
21:32
it and we know we can practice it as you go through.
21:36
We need a place to practice Alana and I and choose recovery
21:39
services. We are really big on It doesn't
21:42
matter where you get the support and where you get the help, Just
21:45
please do it. Don't do this alone.
21:47
Don't practice by yourself. Find people with the right skill
21:51
sets to be able to help you practice and then the right
21:53
groups to be able to have you be able to exude vulnerability
21:57
through this process. So I started off the episode
22:00
talking about my career in corporate America.
22:02
And you have several different leaders which make a really
22:05
strong organization. If they don't have the same
22:07
perspective, they have differences.
22:09
So that's where the richness can come from that.
22:12
Let me tell you the reason why I think it's worth fighting for.
22:15
Life can only get so rewarding if it's just about one person's
22:19
perspective. The opportunity for intimacy,
22:23
the opportunity is for connection is to be able to see
22:25
somebody else where they're at. And if you're not used to that,
22:30
if you haven't felt that that fight for connection, that
22:37
journey of learning somebody else's perspective, maybe
22:41
they're, maybe you haven't seen a lot of what we're actually
22:44
determining and what we're calling intimacy.
22:47
So seeing somebody else and it's worth it.
22:51
It really is. So don't stop, don't stop.
22:54
Keep fighting for it. Stay present during conflict.
22:56
Please communicate your boundaries clearly of what
23:00
you're going to do with inside of yourself as you're being
23:03
relational. Don't let your partner guess why
23:07
you're exiting the conversation. Listen without immediate
23:11
defense, you can do that. I know you can repair that
23:16
conversation when they break down.
23:18
This is about ruption repair. It's not about nailing the first
23:21
time. It's not that it's rainbows and
23:23
Skittles in all the conversations.
23:26
Just go after repair, clean up the mess, and overtime that's
23:30
going to build that relational capacity.
23:33
So inside of yourself, you can't have that with others and it's
23:35
going to create some safety. So in the next episode, we're
23:39
going to talk about emotional maturity and responsibility.
23:43
So we're going to talk about as we grow, what it means to move
23:46
from that reacting emotionally to now I'm being more
23:51
intentional and how that shift actually changed.
23:55
And because a lot of times we're measuring recovery, we're like
23:58
going, am I progressing? Is this feels like it's taking
24:00
years. It feels like it's taking so
24:02
long and is there something to celebrate along the way?
24:05
So we're going to give you some things to be able to measure, to
24:08
know how this is going, how you're rebuilding self trust,
24:12
how you're finding your identity, whether emotional
24:14
regulation is taking place. So looking forward to having
24:18
that conversation. Alana Halley and myself are so
24:22
excited about our upcoming July Costa Rica Intensive Rise, Renew
24:28
and Restore. This is going to be a sacred
24:32
fusion of science, soul, and somatic renewal.
24:37
For those of you who are doing the work, now, it's time to
24:41
receive. You've faced the pain.
24:43
You're rebuilding your strength. You've carried the weight of
24:47
healing. You've shown up for therapy.
24:49
You've shown up for your family, your responsibilities, and
24:52
you've learned how to survive all of it.
24:53
But even after all of your growth, maybe you're still
24:55
feeling a little bit disconnected.
24:57
Disconnected from life. Disconnected from yourself, your
25:00
body, and from joy. Healing helps you survive.
25:03
But you deserve more than just survival.
25:05
You deserve to fully live. This retreat is for women who
25:09
have done a significant amount of healing work and are ready to
25:11
rise. Rise into the next phase of
25:15
wholeness, the next phase of living.
25:17
You're longing for rest. You're longing for joy.
25:19
You're longing for that deeper connection to yourself.
25:23
This retreat is going to give you just that deep healing,
25:28
luxury and adventure. Between all of the modalities
25:31
that Hallie, Alana, and myself bring to the table.
25:34
You're going to have an incredible experience.
25:36
Spaces are filling up and are limited.
25:39
Head over to the show notes and check out Rise, Renew and
25:43
Restore. Get your spot held today.
25:46
We say every week at the end to every episode, choose recovery,
25:49
choose healing and choose you. This intensive is going to take
25:53
choosing you to a whole new level.
25:56
Cannot wait to see you there. Hey, thanks for joining us
26:04
today. If this is something that you
26:05
connected with, I'd love to meet with you more and talk about it.
26:09
So what you can do is go to chooserecoveryservices.com or
26:12
check the show notes and there what we can do is set up a quick
26:15
conversation. Thanks so much for listening to
26:18
Beyond the Facade where we unmask the authentic self.