Latest / Integrity at Scale™ / Boundaries That Actually Work – How to Stop Being Available 24/7 Without Feeling Like a Jerk [Part 2/3]
Transcript
- Hey, hey, welcome back. Dr. Tara Vossenkemper here and you're listening to the Culture Focused Practice Podcast. It's good to see you here. It's good to have you here. I hope you are enjoying your time so far. Today we are covering part two of a three part series on burnout. So last episode we really talked about the hidden burnout traps. Why practice owners are exhausted and don't even see it. Today, we're going to talk about boundaries that actually work. So how to stop being .Available 24 seven without feeling like a twat or being a twat, I should say. And then tomorrow we'll talk about leading like a CEO, how to run your practice without running yourself into the ground. Everybody's dream, not a pipe dream for the record. Okay. I'm just going to do a super quick recap of last episode. We covered misconceptions around burnout, why and how it can happen even when you love what you do, false beliefs that keep you in burnout, warning signs of burnout, and that final stage when you've actually officially reached burnout and you don't give a fuck. That's what we talked about last episode. Today, we're going to talk about how we start fixing this. So one of the most important things you can do with regard to fixing burnout and stopping it from taking over your life is setting boundaries. Everybody talks about boundaries, man, everybody talks about boundaries. So I hate how cliche I feel having this discussion. But the reality is that boundaries are what is required to stop being available 24 7, period. We have to have boundaries in place. So, they are, I would say broadly speaking, one of the first ways that we can really start fixing burnout. They're also one of the most effective ways for really starting to fix burnout. Because they've put up a very clear fence. There, the boundaries are a line in the sand, they're a fence in your yard, they are something that stops another thing from encroaching in your territory, so to speak. Boundaries are not set in such a way that we expect other people to respect them. Boundaries are set in such a way that we know we will enforce them. We trust ourselves to enforce our boundaries. That's a huge, honestly, frustration I have when I hear people talk about boundaries, where they say, you know, I set a boundary and so and so they called me anyway, or they did this thing anyway. And I think, yeah, I don't, that boundary isn't controlling another person. It's controlling yourself. And so if you say, Hey, I'm not going to answer emails after six o'clock at night, but you're on your computer answering emails at eight o'clock because you know, well, Cindy emailed me at seven 45 and she said she needed help with something. I don't give a fuck what Cindy needs. Like you said, you're done at six o'clock. It's your responsibility to hold that line and be done at six o'clock. So boundaries are ours to enforce. A whole separate conversation is do we maintain relationships with people who consistently push back on our boundaries? That is not a conversation for right now for the record. I know this is a multi layered topic and conversation. I'm not talking about that though today. What we're talking about is setting and enforcing boundaries for yourself with regard to fixing and ideally proactively staving off burnout from happening for you at your group practice. So let's carry on, shall we? Number one, um, I did the, I did the quick burnout, I'm sorry, the quick recap from the previous episode. Again, I just want to say this is like one of the most effective ways that we can fix burnout. It's one of the first things we should be focusing on- setting boundaries. And I really want to say that when we talk about boundaries and for people that start to implement them, maybe who are historically not very good at implementing boundaries or holding them, there's a lot of feelings that can come up for folks. You know, people might say, well, what if somebody else gets, what if they get mad at me? Or what if my team can't function without me? Or what if, they're used to me being available there. What are they going to do whenever I'm not available anymore? Or, you know, I don't want them to see me as cold or aloof or uninterested or distant, or, you know, dot, dot, dot, fill in the blank with whatever negative attribute you want to say. Cool. That's totally fair. Totally fine. Highly likely, these are fears that you're going to have around setting boundaries just because you are afraid this is going to happen doesn't mean that setting a boundary can't be done with kindness and with Empathy for the other party and with a level of appropriate self disclosure, so people understand what's at stake for you. And realistically, if somebody is going to shift the way that they think about you, or they, Hmm, what am I trying to say here? If you set a boundary and somebody's perception of you changes so dramatically that they now see you in a negative light, that's a them problem. That's really says more about them than it does about you. Especially if you are setting boundaries or putting boundaries in place that are really healthy and appropriate with the role that you have or the role that you're holding. If you said, I'm not going to be available to anybody ever, only Mondays from one to 2 PM, you know, that's a little bit different. That's a very, very tiny, tiny sliver of space if you're running a team and you are one of the point people. That's a different, that's not really a healthy or appropriate boundary. What I would say is like, again, if we have healthy and appropriate boundaries in place and somebody, you know, somebody is so reactive to it, and they're so furious and they think you're such a terrible person, that's really more about them than it is about what you've put in place. Okay, I am going to keep going now. There's a few boundary mistakes that people put in place or that people make that lead to burnout. So let's talk first about some of the boundary mistakes that people make. These are not, again, this is, anytime I talk on this podcast or in these episodes, none of this is like all encompassing. This is, it's just not intended to be all encompassing. I don't think there's a way that it ever could be all encompassing. These are common things that people do. That's it. Very common mistakes around boundaries. And these common mistakes tend to lead to burnout or can lead to burnout. So there's four here. Number one, you're too available. So I'll just answer this real quick. I'll just get, I'll just respond to this email. I'll just respond to this text message. I'll just pick up my phone on Saturday at seven o'clock whenever I'm out to dinner with my partner or my family or my friends, or I'll just do blah, blah, blah, really fast. That's a boundary issue, bro. Like that's just a boundary problem. That is you being way too available for your team. This is assuming that we're not talking about emergency, urgent, dire circumstances, which is not usually the case. When we're talking about those, obviously, if someone says, Tara, I need you right now, this is like a 911 issue. I'm going to pick up the phone and call, or I'm going to answer that message. If somebody's like, Hey, I really have an issue with my scheduling. I don't like, I don't like what I'm doing. I'm going to call you real quick. And it's seven o'clock on a Saturday night. I should not pick up that phone. Uh, this is not dire. It's not emergent. It's not like, no, that's a very, very different situation. So being too available is that is a, that's an issue. That's a boundary mistake that will often lead to burnout. Number two, you absorb your team's stress. If you are an empath or an HSP, a highly sensitive person, or an emotional caretaker or a person whose tendency is to take on other people's problems as your own, this is going to likely lead you to a place of burnout. There's too many things, there's too many conflicting things that happen in a practice. I might care deeply for my team and I want to fix all of their problems. And the reality is that I can't, it's not possible. Things that they want are in direct conflict with things that the practice needs to be sustainable. Things that I need to be healthy. These things do not all, they don't line up. It's not like a ream of paper where everything's perfectly in alignment and packaged nicely to slide a sheet out at a time. If you are the leader or a leader at your practice, You absolutely can and should be available to hear what your team has to say. That is not equivalent to being their emotional dumping ground. It is not equivalent to taking on their emotions as your own. Being empathic doesn't mean you take something as yours. It means you can tune in with what the other person, how they're feeling, what they're needing, what they're saying, but it doesn't mean you have to own it. There's a very big difference here. One is a healthy sort of empathy that can keep you connected with people. And another is going to be something that gets you into deep waters, dark waters, something that really sets you up to feel burned out. Let's just say that. So absorbing your team stress, your team's stress, your team's stressor stresses. Absorbing your team's stress is going to be something that leaves you feeling probably depleted at some point and then again lead to burnout. So that's number two. Number one is being too available. Number two is absorbing your team's stress. Not to be confused with listening or empathizing, but absorbing, taking it on as your own. Number three, you say yes when you should say no. I hate saying no. I love saying yes. I love chasing ideas. I love being like, yes, let's do that. Let's run this way. Let's go here. I have had to train myself, use my people around me and learn how to ,say no. And I still don't like to do it. No part of me likes to say no. I want to do what I want exactly when I want to do it. Totally impulsive, totally problematic. I don't like saying no. I still have had to learn how to do it. So saying yes, when you should be saying no. If there is not something that is this, this actually goes a little bit deeper than, um, no, I'm not going to get into that yet. Sorry. We have a whole, these are boundary mistakes. We'll talk about how to set boundaries that stick. So let me just keep myself on track. If, okay. I'm actively stopping myself. Okay. Number three, then is again, you say yes, when you should say no. Number four is, You are overworking because it's easier than training someone. That's another really big boundary mistake that you can make that is going to lead to burnout. So that's just taking on every single role. You know, I'll just do it. It's easier than training somebody else. Sure. Right now it might be, but ultimately no, that's not going to be easier. Okay. So those are boundary mistakes. Let's shift real quick. Let's start, start talking about setting boundaries that actually stick. So one is setting time boundaries. This is about setting boundaries and rules around when you actually work, and then sticking to those. Again, this is barring urgent situations or rare exceptions. This is about on an average week, what are the hours that I'm going to spend time working? And when am I off? That means not checking email, fuck, delete the app from your phone. Delete your Gmail app, delete whatever app it is, or turn off notifications. Turn them off. At least when you're not working, you don't need notifications on. That's an example of let me respect my time. I don't need to get dinged every time an email comes into my inbox on a Saturday or a Sunday, or when I'm spending time with my family or when I'm on vacation, I don't need those. I don't need them. It's going to distract me. I'm going to want to check my email. I'm going to be pulled over there. Don't do it. Delete the app. Or again, turn off the notifications whenever you have boundaries around the boundaries in place. Whenever you know, okay, I'm working these hours. I'm not working these hours. That is also a marker for turning my notifications off. So if you are a person like me, I don't like having the same schedule on a week to week basis. I sort of, to some extent I have to because of, you know, meetings and family obligations, you know, whatever, but I don't like doing the same thing every week at the exact same time. So your work hours, I mean, it might be that on a weekly basis, you are setting hours for yourself, or maybe, you know, on Monday, your first hour of time is spent planning out your next two weeks. And so every Monday, you're always looking at the next two weeks out. And so you're planning your work time and the time you're going to be off and you're something like that, you know? So that's one thing. A second part to this, having time boundaries is if you, let's say you leave notifications on, you're like, I can't Tara, I need to leave them on. Fine. You leave them on and you want to read every message that comes through, even though technically you're disrespecting your own time boundaries and doing that. Let's just say your first step is I'm just not going to respond. That's, that's my role or my, my, my goal for myself. I want to know what comes in, but I'm not going to respond. Fine. I will acquiesce here. I will, I will cede what you need. Think about anything that comes in- unless it is a dire emergency. Again, you're going to get a phone call from your right hand person or somebody, somebody at the practice. It's like, Oh my God, the room is flooding. Something's happening or something's happening with a client or whatever. Something I would task you with is thinking to yourself an internal question. Can this wait until Monday? Can this wait until my next business day to answer? Is this a dire emergency? Like, do they need me right now? Or can it wait? If it can wait, it should wait. Anything that can wait, absolutely should. So, that's something to just embed. Like, can this wait, just have that be part of your, every time an email comes in, just ask, can this wait, can this wait, can this wait, do that, start doing that. So number one, time boundaries, maybe have actual work hours and then stick with them, which again, these could be set two weeks in advance. If you are a consistent type person, it might be set once and you forget it. Like it's that same thing every single week. And, If you are getting notifications or text messages or whatever, it might just be "can this wait?" That's one thing. Second type of boundary is emotional boundary. So this is how, you know, we talked about one of the issues, one of the boundary mistakes is you absorbing your team's stress. This is the opposite of that. So if somebody is emotionally offloading on you, there's a couple things you can do. I might be the exception here. I don't mind when people share frustrations, emotionality with me. I love my own feelings. And when I'm sharing, my goal is not for anybody around me to take things on. It's just, I need to express like I know that I'm like, I'm an external processor and that way I need it out of my body. I need it out of my system and talking as a way of doing that. So if somebody is coming to me, I know that and they're sharing something emotionally. I can hear it and not absorb it. There are some exceptions, but broadly speaking, I'm going to be able to hear this and not take it on as my own. If you are that type of person and you want to hear what people have to say, fine. And you're able to remain emotionally sort of, you have a level of distance between what they're saying and how it lands in your body, if it lives, or if it just like hangs out and then like, you know, is it leaves your system. If that's the case, great. If you, if it stays in your system and you like absorb it and you're not really able to, to distance from it, you need more boundaries around how much people share with you and / or in what capacity it might be where you say, you know what, I really want to hear from you, but I also want my integrator, my director of ops, my clinical director, my somebody with me, because I know myself, like I know my tendency is to take on your emotional pain and I need, I really want another person here to help me stay grounded. And also it's relevant for them to know what's happening for you at the practice because they're your direct boss. That's an example. That's not necessarily true for all of you listening. That's one thing is you could try to carry the weight with another person. So that's one thing. Second thing is again, with the emotional boundaries. If you hear what somebody is saying and your tendency is to, I'm laughing, I'm so sorry. I'm just thinking about the office, how, um, in one of the very first and like the first season, you know, he says he has to fire somebody. It's a Halloween episode. He has to fire somebody. He goes to fire Creed and he doesn't, then he goes to fire Devin and he's brings Jim in and he's like, can you help me fire this person? And so Jim's doing this, like make believe fire role play with them. And it's just so ridiculous. But the joke is like, Michael would go to fire somebody in my mind, you know, sort of like Michael's a guy that would go to fire somebody ends up giving them a raise. He literally went to fire Creed and then Creed talked him out of firing Creed and then to firing Devin. So then Devin gets fired and it's just, it's just a shit show. But it's funny. What is funny, excuse me, is that in out of this whole thing for me, what I think is funny is that you don't have to do anything right away. So if somebody comes to you and they're emotionally, let's just say dumping their, their unloading stuff to you, and you have made that space, you're like, I want to keep this space at my practice. And I want to be the person there. But you also know that your tendency is to say, whatever you need to do, like, let's fix this. Your boundary should be, again, you're telling me that you want to keep that space. Cool. If that is the true and you need distance between what somebody is saying and how you react to it, your rule of thumb should be, thank you for sharing. Let me process what you've shared and I will get back to you with some thoughts. And those thoughts, maybe we can change something and those thoughts may be that we cannot, but I really appreciate you sharing with me. It's important to me that you come to me with these things, boom, and you don't respond. Don't do anything in that moment. And then you might go process somewhere else so you can sort of read yourself. And I don't, that sounds, um, that sounds like it has a negative connotation, but I don't mean for it to, but literally like sort of dispel some of that emotional, uh, hangover, the, some of that emotionality from that meeting, and then focus on, okay, is there something I need to do here? Or do I just thank this person for coming to me directly because I value that. That is also a way to have an emotional boundary where you are, you are intentionally adding in some distance between what somebody is telling you and how you react. So you also might be a person. So that's for people who want to create that emotional space at their practice, want to be able to be a person that others come to. If you are done and you don't want to be that person that somebody comes to with like an emotional, heavy, heavy, emotionality around something like whether it's their stress or there frustrations with work, you are absolutely free to say, you know what, this type of conversation is not actually working for me, but specifically it's taking me away from being able to focus on what's best for the practice. So while it's very important to me that you can come to me and share some of what your frustrations are, my ask for you is that if you have a frustration about something, you come with a solution in mind. And so I want you to, you know, we'll spend three minutes. I want you to just let me know what the frustration is, but the most, most of our time needs to be spent figuring out what that solution is. And so you might immediately shift into, you can be mad and frustrated and upset, but we're going to focus more on solutions. Or you might just put it, have another person be this role. If you, you might have another person be in the role of that solution focused conversation. So you can do a variety of things. The point here is that you are just creating some boundary around what this emotional, emotional sort of dumping process might look like. I also don't like the word dumping, but it's hard to emotionally laden process, whatever it might be where people are coming to you. So you can have time boundaries, you can set those, you can set emotional boundaries. You also can set decision boundaries. So there's, you should not be the only decision maker at your group practice. There should be multiple. And the decision boundary is something that you can put in place with regard to specific roles. So for example, if you have a clinical director, but people are coming to you with clinical oriented or niche training or consultation sorts of questions and you're the visionary or you're the managing director or you are the director of ops or you're not in a role that it makes sense, you would send them back to that accurate role. You might say, I love this question, but actually I think it makes more sense that you go to so and so with it. That's more their role. And so I want to respect, I want to respect the accountability chart. I want to respect what I've and I want to respect. the person in this role that I trust to do it well. So I want you to go to them instead. Boom, easy. And it could be say I'm getting actually caught up in consultation, but around decisions too, if you're. For example, my marketing person might come to me and ask me about, I know that I want eyes on design and sometimes copy, you know, but it's like, there's four designs or she's done a video. This is a recent example. She did a video of one of our clinicians, a couple of videos for a clinician bio page. They were all fucking awesome. And she came to me asking which one and I'm sort of, I don't care, like whatever you think you do, you do it, you decide. Cause I don't want to decide. It makes more sense that she does. And I want, I want her to be also a decision maker in some of the same with my integrator same with my director of clinical ops, people in certain roles, actually everybody in certain roles, they should have the ability to make decisions about key things within that role, without making system wide practice level decisions, of course, so you know there's, they're not going to make a decision that disrupts the entire practice, but decisions that are role specific, and you have a person in that role, the decision should go to that person. So also decision boundaries. If you find yourself making a lot of decisions, every time you go to make a decision, maybe you should ask yourself first, does this belong with me? Is this a decision for me or is this a decision for another role? And I'm just used to saying yes or no. Boom. So decision boundaries, that's third. So time boundaries, emotional boundaries, decision boundaries. Number four, communication boundaries. love this one. We have to make sure that people know they don't need to come to us for everything. So this is assuming you have other roles in place. When you do, When you have clear roles, a pristine accountability chart, which is an EOS concept. You all know, if you don't, you know, now I love Gino Wickman. I love traction, the traction library, EOS, all of it is just, you know, chef's kiss, incredible. If you have a pristine accountability chart, communication, everybody coming to you, you just send them to the right person. It is that simple. So one is that if everybody's coming to you with questions, That's kind of ties in with decision making, you know, you might say, you know what, thanks. Go to that person instead. Love this question. Let me pull in my integrator. Let me pull in my DCO. Let me pull in my marketing director. Let me pull in client care. That's actually, they're better at answering, Hey, client care, you've got it. Take it from here. And you just remove yourself entirely. It could also be that if they're letting you, if they're emailing you just checking in about something or, Um, so one is about sending people to the right people. Another is about if somebody is communicating with you, you don't have to respond right away. I am bad at my inbox. Some of that is just being busy and some of that is by design. I don't want to respond right away. I'm not interested. I have so many more things that I need to be focusing on than my inbox. My time is not served well in there. And so it could be where if somebody's just checking in or doesn't need something urgent, don't reply, shut your inbox down and work on whatever it is you might need to work on. You can have boundaries around communication. You might say to your team, especially if you have other roles in place that a lot of their questions will go to these other roles. You might have an auto responder on your inbox that says, I only respond to emails from nine to 10, Monday through Friday. That's it. And you could set a boundary around that if you wanted to. I mean, it could be that simple. It could be that straightforward. Okay. So those are how to set boundaries that actually stick, excuse me, time boundaries, emotional boundaries, the decision boundaries, and then the communication boundaries. Last thing dealing with pushback. You might get pushback from your people. So if your team pushes back on your boundaries, or, um, if you're worried about, well, how do I talk about this without sounding cold or dismissive or anything? I just, there's a few things that come to mind just immediately. One is be honest with people. I can't imagine a world where people are going to get mad at you if you say, I'm close to burning out. I need to create some appropriate distance from what I'm doing in order to not feel burned out and in order to be my best, best self with you all. If somebody's mad about that, they're not the right person for your team. That's it. They're just not the right person. I'm honest. I'm just honest with people. If that's, if there's something that's going on for me in my life, I'm going to let them know, look, this is happening. Like I am very dangerously close to burning out. In order to protect myself and thus ensure that I'm healthy for the practice, which directly feeds into the practice, I need some distance. So communication needs to go here. If you have questions about this, send it to that person. If you're letting me know something, email me, but no, I'm not going to get back to you right away. If you are frustrated about something, schedule a time with me or let me know, I'm frustrated about this thing, I want to schedule a time with you. Cool. Come with a solution as well. Like you can, you can communicate these things with your team to let them know this is what's happening. So for me being really honest about what is going on with you and like, sort of your intentions in setting up some clear boundaries, that will go a long way. The other thing that comes to mind, excuse me, is that when you are doing this, I am very much of the opinion that you should be self disclosing some of what's happening. So if you are close to burnout, one, it's human. Two, I would just say that, say that to your team, tell them I'm close to burnout. I'm close to burnout. That's why I'm doing this. That's a huge reason why I'm doing this. Also, if I'm close to burnout now, and our goal is to grow in this direction, which is, should be clear with a vision, your clear vision from your EOS, you know, your 10 year vision, or your one year plan, whatever it might be- we want to go here. I can't do that. If I don't change what I'm doing right now. And just be, again, be really direct with them. Be very upfront. And this isn't about like, it's your fault. Stop. I'd never tell people, I tell people, email me. Yeah, of course. Email me. That's up to me on how quickly I get back to you. So I might not get back to you quickly, but I would never want you to stop sending me emails that are appropriate to send. So you emailing me every single day about work with this client. Not appropriate. Like you need to go to the clinical director or the director of clinical apps, but you wanting to communicate something with me like larger, or I make sure that it's really clear that my boundaries are my own around stuff and that I want people to reach out to me, but I also want them to know I'm gonna be- I'm going to approach how I engage differently based on these boundaries. So it can feel really, really hard to do this at first for everybody. Some, some people, it just feels kind of confusing. They're like, well, hang on, hang on. Who do I go to now? Like, how am I supposed to do this? We actually created a whole, like, of course we put a lot of shit in writing. So we have a whole sheet that is, um, It's not a sheet. It's a Google Doc, but my preference is sheets. I love Google sheets, but it's a doc. And we just basically said, who do I go to for what? And we highlighted why you might go to which role, like for what topics you might go to, which role. And we introduced that in during onboarding. If you heard that sound, that was my, I just realized I cracked my knuckles right in front of my microphone. Sorry. If you heard that, like what the fuck. It was my knuckles. We created this whole Google Doc and we basically shared it with the entire team and we introduce it now during our onboarding process so that people understand there are, you know, clear roles to go to for certain things. And for anybody who's unsure about person they go to or what role they go to, we have a person like, go here. This is your starting point. So that's been helpful. This pays off because it helps your it helps you, period, as the owner as the leader at the practice, it's going to help you be able to sustain a longer term relationship, it's going to help you longer term with the growth of the practice with honestly with cleaning things up. Because if you are in a place where you are approaching burnout, or you're in burnout, it's really hard to see the forest for the trees and also honestly the trees for the forest. It's hard to see big picture or minutia. It's hard to make sense of what you need to do to keep moving in the direction that you're seeking to go into or that you're, you're striving for. And it's hard to figure out on a, it's hard to like, see that bigger view. And it's hard to like, see like fine details where you can actually stop doing something versus start doing something. So. Boundaries might feel hard and your team might also, they might have, again, they might have some pushback, totally fine. They can have pushback. That doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. It means that it might be mean it's the right thing to do, because if they have pushback also, that could sort of indicate they're used to you being available. as much as they want, which we know feeds into burnout. So it might mean you're doing the right thing, even though it feels kind of shitty. All right. This is the episode for the day. We're done. You're going to have some, you might have some pushbacks. So just real quick recap, boundary mistakes, being too available, absorbing your team stress, saying yes when you should say no. As an aside, I'm so sorry. I do need to add this on. If you are using EOS, which I would encourage you to do that if you are not, but I would implore that you use EOS. Think about your core focus as part of your vision. Your core focus is comprised of your purpose, your passion, your reason for being, your cause, and your niche. So what you do, niche and purpose are your core focus. Every decision that is made, especially about like the practice and growth and where you spend your time, it needs to funnel through that core focus. So if it's not in alignment with your purpose and it's not part of your niche, then the answer is no. So I'm saying that, like, if you say yes when you should say no, rely on your accountability chart, role alignment, and rely on your core focus from your vision. And then another boundary mistake is overworking because it's easier than training somebody. So setting boundaries that actually stick. We have time boundaries, we have emotional boundaries, we have decision boundaries, and we have communication boundaries. And dealing with pushback, the most, just the, the clearest cut thing I can say is just be honest about what's happening and what your solution is for it. I'm going to start setting clear boundaries. I also, almost always speak in advance to some of the objections that people might have, because if they're going to have them, I might as well talk about them rather than avoid them. So I might say something like, here's what's happening for me. Here's what we're doing. Here's what you might be worried about. You might be worried. Am I going to be available? You might be worried. Well, how are you going to get ahold of me? You might be worried. What does this mean for the practice? You might be worried, you know, All these things. And then I would answer those right then. And I would leave it at that. I will be available just in a different capacity. This is what this means for the practice is that we'll be able to focus and grow in the way that we want to, instead of me feeling like I am trudging through anything related to the business, what this means for, you know, whatever other objections they might have. Oh, goodness. So your next step, listen tomorrow. Tomorrow we're going to do leading like a CEO. So how to run your practice without running yourself into the ground. Also tying in with this concept of burnout, we do not want to run ourselves into the ground. Leadership boundaries are about business sustainability, period. They have to be. You have to protect your time and be able to spend it where it needs to go to grow and sustain your business. Just that, that just is it. If you are in need of more support, join me at the Culture Focus Practice membership. You can find it at taravossenkemper.com. Click on the membership. And we do a variety of things in there. You get me twice a month for a live training and a live Q and a. Yep. I'm trying to think of what days I think the second and fourth Thursday or the first and third Thursday of every month. You also get all the previous recordings from Q and A's from trainings from any sort of one off consultings I might do that people agree to be recorded- I put it in there. Any resources, of course, like digital downloads of things and also a private Facebook group. So anybody who's not in the membership does not have access to that group where you can ask any and all questions you have about culture focused practice leadership, and growth. So it's great seeing you. Thanks for being here with me. Thanks for making this awesome. And I will see you next time. Bye.