Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / INCITE FEAR: LUIGI MANGIONE'S MURDER “TERROR” CHARGE, MOM'S CHILLING COMMENT

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INCITE FEAR: LUIGI MANGIONE'S MURDER “TERROR” CHARGE, MOM'S CHILLING COMMENT · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:06
Speaker 2: Inciting fear the health Boss assassin Luigi Mangione's charges just
0:14
Speaker 2: upgraded to murder one, claiming.
0:19
Speaker 1: Terrorism was the root of the shooting.
0:22
Speaker 2: This as Mom's chilling comment to law enforcement is revealed.
0:29
Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:32
Speaker 2: being with us.
0:33
Speaker 3: Luigi Mangioni remains behind bars in a Pennsylvania prison as
0:38
Speaker 3: he fights extradition to New York City Online. So called
0:43
Speaker 3: fans of the killer clamor.
0:44
Speaker 4: For his release.
0:47
Speaker 2: They're not just clamoring now, authorities a fear a copycat crime.
0:53
Speaker 1: May be in the works.
0:55
Speaker 2: But this as Luigi Mangioni's charges now upgraded to murder one, listen.
1:02
Speaker 5: Luigi Manjoni, the defendant is charged with one count of
1:06
Speaker 5: murder in the first degree and two counts of murder
1:10
Speaker 5: in the second degree, including one count of murder in
1:13
Speaker 5: the second degree as an act of terrorism, for the brazen, targeted,
1:19
Speaker 5: and premeditated shooting of Brian Thompson, who, as you know,
1:24
Speaker 5: was the CEO of United Healthcare.
1:26
Speaker 2: Joining US and All Star panel experts to make sense
1:29
Speaker 2: of what we are learning right now about the so
1:31
Speaker 2: called health Boss assassin straight out to Christina Yo joining
1:37
Speaker 2: US national news anchor with Salem News Channel. Christina, thank
1:41
Speaker 2: you for being with us. Explain to us the new charges. Now,
1:45
Speaker 2: the old charges were a out of Pennsylvania where he
1:49
Speaker 2: was apprehended at the McDonald's. Okay, the murder did not
1:53
Speaker 2: occur in Pennsylvania, so therefore he will not be facing
1:57
Speaker 2: that charge in Pennsylvania. The new charge charges or originating
2:01
Speaker 2: from a grand jury out of New York.
2:04
Speaker 1: What are they? Okay?
2:05
Speaker 6: So, now, as we just heard, Elvin Bragg, the District
2:08
Speaker 6: Attorney in Manhattan, alongside NYPD commissed Jessica Tish announced these
2:12
Speaker 6: new charges for New York. Number one one count of
2:16
Speaker 6: murder one murder.
2:17
Speaker 1: In the first degree.
2:17
Speaker 6: He's facing two counts of murder, two murder in the
2:20
Speaker 6: second degree, one with the underlying cause of terrorism. And
2:23
Speaker 6: that's because Alvin Bragg said that this was premeditated, it
2:28
Speaker 6: was an ideological crime, and it was committed in order
2:31
Speaker 6: to strike fear, terror, shock attention into the residents of
2:35
Speaker 6: New York and the tourists of New York as well.
2:38
Speaker 6: So that's why those charges have been outlining the way
2:40
Speaker 6: that they have. In addition to the murder one and
2:42
Speaker 6: the murder two. He's facing a slew of other felony
2:45
Speaker 6: charges too.
2:45
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst out of La
2:49
Speaker 2: author of deal Breaker.
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Speaker 1: You can see her on Peacock Now, Doctor Bethany, they
2:54
Speaker 1: had to, and it's.
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Speaker 2: Very rare, especially for Bragg to take a a hard
3:01
Speaker 2: crime fighting position.
3:04
Speaker 1: Don't ask me why about that, but that said doctor Bethany.
3:08
Speaker 2: They had to because the lifeblood of Manhattan is tourism.
3:13
Speaker 2: What tourists wants to go see Hamilton or whatever if
3:17
Speaker 2: they think they're going to get gunned down by an
3:19
Speaker 2: assassinite Luigi MANGIONI, Oh no way, are.
3:22
Speaker 1: You going to take your children to Times Square?
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Speaker 7: You know, Nancy, not even just gunned down, but somebody
3:28
Speaker 7: who had the means to do this in such a
3:30
Speaker 7: crowded area. Somebody who stayed at a hostel, somebody who
3:35
Speaker 7: carried a bike battery with him, someone who discarded a.
3:37
Speaker 1: Backpack in Central Park. This is where women.
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Speaker 8: And men, families take their children to play.
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Speaker 7: And you know what, Nancy, I'm going to anticipate there
3:46
Speaker 7: are going to be a lot of tourists flocking to
3:48
Speaker 7: the scene where this crime took place, so we're going
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Speaker 7: to have both a ghoulish quality of crime watching in
3:55
Speaker 7: the city and then families who want to stay away.
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Speaker 1: Well put.
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Speaker 2: You know, Yo just explained the most recent development in
4:04
Speaker 2: the Mangioni case.
4:06
Speaker 1: But let's hear it from the horse's mouth.
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Speaker 5: We say a bit more about the charges. They include
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Speaker 5: one count of murder in the first degree as a
4:14
Speaker 5: killing in furtheres of terrorism, two counts of murdering the
4:18
Speaker 5: second degree, one charging of the killing was done as
4:22
Speaker 5: an act of terrorism, and the second pertaining to the
4:25
Speaker 5: fact that the killing was intentional. The maximum penalty possible
4:30
Speaker 5: for murdering the first degree and murdering the second degree
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Speaker 5: is an active terrorism is life without parole. The maximum
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Speaker 5: penalty for murdering the second degree is twenty five years
4:40
Speaker 5: to life.
4:40
Speaker 2: Joining me high profile lawyer Matthew Mangino, former felony prosecutor,
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Speaker 2: author of the Executioner's Toll. Matt, thank you for being
4:49
Speaker 2: with us now. I don't want to go to Inside
4:52
Speaker 2: Baseball to deafcom four on this, but when you say
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Speaker 2: the murder one charge is based on terrorism and intentional killing,
5:02
Speaker 2: that's the second theory of murder one murder two is
5:07
Speaker 2: also an intentional killing. Really, the only difference is who
5:11
Speaker 2: is the victim when it comes to intent as it
5:13
Speaker 2: relates to murder one versus murder two.
5:15
Speaker 1: Agreed, disagree?
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Speaker 9: Well, I agree, but Nancy, I'm a little suspect of
5:22
Speaker 9: the terrorism aspect of this. I don't see how this
5:26
Speaker 9: is an act of terrorism. Certainly, you know it intimidates
5:30
Speaker 9: the community, But any violent crime in downtown Manhattan, you know,
5:36
Speaker 9: intimidates the community, makes people fearful. I don't see that
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Speaker 9: this is trying to influence the government policy in any way.
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Speaker 2: So I think the second verse, same as the first,
5:48
Speaker 2: to state can't prove it. You don't think people are
5:52
Speaker 2: terrorized by somebody like MANGIONI wandering around Time Square, wandering
5:59
Speaker 2: around the city, lying in wait. We now know he
6:02
Speaker 2: stood out there in the cold over an hour waiting
6:06
Speaker 2: for the victim to show up. You know what, Listen
6:09
Speaker 2: to brag.
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Speaker 5: This was a frightening, well planned, targeted murder that was
6:15
Speaker 5: intended to cause shock and attention and intimidation. It incurred
6:21
Speaker 5: in one of the most bustling parts of our city,
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Speaker 5: threatening the safety of local residents and tourists alike. Commuters,
6:29
Speaker 5: and business people just starting out on their day.
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Speaker 2: Back to you, Mangino, question, you're saying the state can't
6:36
Speaker 2: prove the terrorism aspect of the murder one charge. Now,
6:41
Speaker 2: murder one in New York must include aggravating circumstances or
6:46
Speaker 2: additional circumstances such as the victim was in law enforcement,
6:50
Speaker 2: the victim was a judge, the victim was the first responder,
6:55
Speaker 2: murder for hire, or inciting fear in furtherance terrorism. I'm
7:02
Speaker 2: sure you, as a family prosecutor must have shown aggravating
7:05
Speaker 2: circumstances before.
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Speaker 1: It's not that hard.
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Speaker 9: Well, yeah, I have, particularly in my jurisdiction in death
7:11
Speaker 9: penalty cases. But again, I think that that the terrorism
7:15
Speaker 9: charge is a stretch here. You know, it's any homicide,
7:21
Speaker 9: any violent crime that's out in the public square in
7:25
Speaker 9: New York City incites fear and potential terrorists and other
7:28
Speaker 9: crime rates it's themselves incite fear in people. So I
7:33
Speaker 9: think the terrorism charge, Man.
7:34
Speaker 2: Gino, I'm sorry, let me just check my ut. Yeah, okay,
7:37
Speaker 2: that's working. Did you just compare the cold blooded will
7:41
Speaker 2: planned execution of the healthcare boss to crime rates going
7:45
Speaker 2: up across the country.
7:47
Speaker 1: Are you saying you know what matt eh cut. Here's Mike.
7:51
Speaker 1: Let me go to Tom Smith.
7:52
Speaker 2: Tom Smith joining me, a former NYPD detective over thirty
7:57
Speaker 2: years now, the star of the gold Shields podcast. Tom,
8:03
Speaker 2: could you please enlighten Matthew Mangino. Okay, I've checked his record.
8:08
Speaker 2: He's a very successful former felony prosecutor. I don't know
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Speaker 2: what he's saying. I don't know what's coming out of
8:12
Speaker 2: his mouth, but to say people won't go to Times
8:15
Speaker 2: Square and visit New York because of rising crime rates,
8:19
Speaker 2: that's bs.
8:20
Speaker 1: New York is thronged.
8:22
Speaker 2: Okay, But this this they had to do. They had
8:28
Speaker 2: to come down with this charge for the very reason
8:32
Speaker 2: of tourists, of the well being of.
8:33
Speaker 1: The citizens, of the credibility.
8:37
Speaker 2: If Brad can try to get credibility with the citizens.
8:40
Speaker 2: They had to do a murder one charge and gunning
8:44
Speaker 2: somebody down in cold blood because of a titular reason.
8:50
Speaker 2: The title like, you go down to judge because they're
8:54
Speaker 2: a judge. You go down a cop because he she
8:57
Speaker 2: is a cop. You gun down this guy, Ryan Thompson
9:00
Speaker 2: because he's the head of United Healthcare. That is terrorism.
9:05
Speaker 2: There's a big difference. I've gone taking the children to
9:09
Speaker 2: go see plays and go skating at Rockefeller Center and
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Speaker 2: woman without fear of terrorism.
9:15
Speaker 10: No, I think it's a correct charge because, first of all,
9:19
Speaker 10: it's precedent setting for any possible copycats out there.
9:22
Speaker 4: Now.
9:23
Speaker 10: The highest charge that New York can bring was brought
9:26
Speaker 10: against him, and it did intimidate the public, and not
9:29
Speaker 10: only just the public in general, every CEO in his
9:32
Speaker 10: country felt fear and was frightened by this and took
9:36
Speaker 10: steps security wise with then their families. Not just in
9:40
Speaker 10: the healthcare system, but every CEO in this country was
9:44
Speaker 10: now under the intimidation of a murder like that. So
9:47
Speaker 10: I think going forward, it's the right charge, and it's
9:52
Speaker 10: going to have a ripple effect with any possible copycats
9:55
Speaker 10: that He's going.
9:55
Speaker 4: To go on.
10:02
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace joining me.
10:09
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, founded director of Cold Case Research Institute and
10:12
Speaker 2: star of the hit series Zone seven podcasts, Cheryl.
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Speaker 1: What in the Hey?
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Speaker 4: Tom is absolutely right? Every single CEO in the Fortune
10:23
Speaker 4: five hundred industries have changed the way they do business.
10:27
Speaker 4: He had a homemade weapon that he kept because I
10:30
Speaker 4: believe he wasn't finished, and he also talked about bombs
10:35
Speaker 4: he also had specific, you know, a target, but the
10:39
Speaker 4: fact that he would make weapons, talk about other weapons
10:42
Speaker 4: of mass destruction. It again reminds me of our Olympic
10:45
Speaker 4: park bombing. We had one murder, one Alic Hophorn, but
10:52
Speaker 4: those games shut down, athletes went home. Every single Olympics
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Speaker 4: since then has changed the way they do business. This
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Speaker 4: single murder, this single assassination, is absolutely an act of terrorism.
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Speaker 2: You know, it's very interesting as a way that Matthew
11:13
Speaker 2: Mangino is trying to say that terror was not caused.
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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, you just pointed out that healthcare industry execs
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Speaker 2: across the country and in fact, the healthcare industry itself
11:28
Speaker 2: is changing the way it does business.
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Speaker 1: What did you mean by that?
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Speaker 4: You know, you've got CEOs now, not just in healthcare.
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Speaker 4: But is there going to be some crackpot that says, hey,
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Speaker 4: airlines are monopoly, car manufacturers are monopoly. Who's next? They
11:43
Speaker 4: have no choice but to go to their security heads
11:46
Speaker 4: and say, hey, how can I be safe? And they've
11:49
Speaker 4: got to maintain a level of security not just for
11:53
Speaker 4: themselves but for their family. It's a different day than
11:59
Speaker 4: it was cadays ago.
12:00
Speaker 2: You know, I want to go back to Christina Oio
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Speaker 2: joining US national news anchor. Isn't it true, Christina that months,
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Speaker 2: just a few months before he was gunned down in
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Speaker 2: the street, Brian Thompson issued a very chilling warning to
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Speaker 2: the United Healthcare executives about the way that the industry
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Speaker 2: was portrayed and actually pushed measures to change the way
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Speaker 2: healthcare was working.
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Speaker 6: That's absolutely right, and we found that out just recently
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Speaker 6: by the parent company of United Healthcare. He was actually,
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Speaker 6: Brian Thompson was actually a good guy, quote unquote who
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Speaker 6: was working to fix things, who actually felt the pain
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Speaker 6: of the people who were getting their claims denied or
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Speaker 6: having to pay these enormous deductibles and sky high monthly premiums,
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Speaker 6: and he was trying to bring awareness to it. He
12:50
Speaker 6: was trying to fix it, and he was actually trying
12:52
Speaker 6: to enact change across the entire healthcare industry, at least
12:55
Speaker 6: that out of United Healthcare, to sort of reverse the
12:59
Speaker 6: problems the issues that people were having with the healthcare system.
13:03
Speaker 6: So it appears as though Luigi Mangioni targeted, allegedly targeted
13:06
Speaker 6: and killed, allegedly killed the wrong man.
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Speaker 1: You know, it's really bizarre.
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Speaker 2: It seems like he got at bass ackwards while he
13:14
Speaker 2: was lying on the beach in Hawaii hatching his murder plan,
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Speaker 2: and picks out Brian Thompson, Christina, and I want to
13:20
Speaker 2: get these words exactly correct.
13:23
Speaker 1: Thompson had just.
13:24
Speaker 2: In a very eerie Oh there he is lounging without
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Speaker 2: a shirt on, not working, I might add, like the
13:31
Speaker 2: rest of us. Wow, he doesn't look like he's in
13:32
Speaker 2: any back pain right there. To me, none whatsoever. Oh
13:38
Speaker 2: there he is running on the beach. In many shots,
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Speaker 2: I see him lounging with Hawaiian beauty, scantily clad. Oh
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Speaker 2: there he is again, no problem, no indication of any
13:49
Speaker 2: pain whatsoever. But that's a whole other can of worms.
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Speaker 2: Just before being gunned down, Thompson was urging executives to
13:56
Speaker 2: focus on steps to eliminate out of pocket costs for
14:03
Speaker 2: life saving drugs. He understood quote the public's frustration with
14:10
Speaker 2: what they perceived as the company's actions, actively articulating a
14:15
Speaker 2: vision that helped educate and help people understand what the
14:19
Speaker 2: company was doing, and so on and so on.
14:23
Speaker 1: But the point is he had been.
14:25
Speaker 2: Urging Christina, urging the other healthcare executives to focus on
14:31
Speaker 2: taking steps to get rid of out of pocket costs
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Speaker 2: for consumers.
14:37
Speaker 6: Yeah, so as smart as Luigi Mangioni thinks that he
14:40
Speaker 6: is and other people think that he is in this
14:42
Speaker 6: elaborate plan and how much thought went into it and
14:45
Speaker 6: him being an engineer, he clearly wasn't very smart, right
14:48
Speaker 6: because he didn't do any research about the exact version
14:51
Speaker 6: that he was targeting, the one that he thought was
14:53
Speaker 6: the face of this healthcare industry to blame for all
14:56
Speaker 6: the costs and for essentially what they say costing people
15:00
Speaker 6: lives and the healthcare industry having blood on their hands.
15:02
Speaker 6: But this wasn't the man. This was the man that
15:04
Speaker 6: was actually fighting for the little people. He infiltrated the system,
15:07
Speaker 6: he worked hard, he got to the top, and then
15:09
Speaker 6: he was fighting fighting for the very people that Luigimngioni
15:12
Speaker 6: said he's fighting for. So he clearly didn't do his research,
15:15
Speaker 6: he didn't do his homework, and he's not as smart
15:17
Speaker 6: as he thinks.
15:17
Speaker 1: He is.
15:18
Speaker 3: The suspected killer of the United Healthcare CEO. A mess
15:22
Speaker 3: is a cult following as law enforcement nationwide is on
15:26
Speaker 3: high alert for coffeecats after wanted posters of other CEOs
15:32
Speaker 3: are plastered across New York City cult schmalt.
15:37
Speaker 2: Why would anyone celebrate or lionize Luigimngoni.
15:43
Speaker 1: I don't know.
15:43
Speaker 2: That's why we've got a shrink on today for that
15:46
Speaker 2: and many other reasons. But aside from would be copycats,
15:50
Speaker 2: one already emerging. In Florida, law enforcement honey in on
15:56
Speaker 2: Luigi Mangioni's family.
15:59
Speaker 1: Listen.
16:00
Speaker 11: The NYPD reveals they spoke to Luigi Mangoni's mother three
16:03
Speaker 11: days after Brian Thompson was gunned down. The suspects parents
16:06
Speaker 11: filed a missing person report on Mangoni in San Francisco,
16:09
Speaker 11: and in San Francisco police sergeant believed they recognize Mangoni
16:13
Speaker 11: and wanted photos from the NYPD. Mangoni's mother is called
16:16
Speaker 11: in and while she doesn't identify her son in the photo,
16:19
Speaker 11: talking about his mindset in the shooting, she said it
16:22
Speaker 11: might be something she could see him doing.
16:24
Speaker 1: Okay, let me be clearer to Matt Mangino.
16:28
Speaker 2: I'm going to go out on a limb and throw
16:29
Speaker 2: him another legal question, Mangino. Under our jurisprudence, no one
16:36
Speaker 2: is required to be a good samaritan. No one is
16:40
Speaker 2: required to come forward with information. While we want them to,
16:46
Speaker 2: they don't have to under the law. The one thing
16:48
Speaker 2: they cannot do is lie or in some way obstruct
16:53
Speaker 2: the course of justice. We're not the Chinese or Russian
16:56
Speaker 2: communist state where you are forced to give information.
17:02
Speaker 7: No.
17:03
Speaker 2: So even if the mother, and I'm sure she did,
17:07
Speaker 2: I was saying earlier today, Matt, I can spot my husband,
17:10
Speaker 2: my daughter, my son at five hundred feet just by
17:14
Speaker 2: the way they walk. You know, the mother knew this
17:18
Speaker 2: was her son's picture.
17:20
Speaker 1: Okay, she knew it was him.
17:22
Speaker 2: But under the law, she is not under any duty
17:26
Speaker 2: to come forward with that information.
17:29
Speaker 9: Well, yeah, she's not under any duty to come forward
17:31
Speaker 9: with that information. And she didn't identify him. But I
17:35
Speaker 9: think she did make a statement that this would be
17:38
Speaker 9: something that she believed he could do, So she wasn't
17:43
Speaker 9: completely uncooperative.
17:45
Speaker 2: And maybe let me get those words verbatim, Matt, because
17:49
Speaker 2: I want you to analyze them and let me make
17:54
Speaker 2: sure Christina double check me on this. But the exact
17:57
Speaker 2: words I have that she the mother, Jim and Joani's
18:00
Speaker 2: mother said are quote might be something she could see
18:08
Speaker 2: him doing, might be something she could see him doing.
18:15
Speaker 1: Don't have that right Christader, Absolutely right.
18:18
Speaker 6: I just looked with my notes.
18:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to read it verbatim because here, Matt Mangino,
18:25
Speaker 2: the words matter. If she obstructed police in any way,
18:30
Speaker 2: she can be charged. Her words must be parsed and
18:36
Speaker 2: must be examined under microscope to make sure she didn't lit.
18:40
Speaker 2: And that sounds very equivocal. It's very lukewarm. She's not
18:46
Speaker 2: saying yeah, he did it. She's saying, well, it might
18:49
Speaker 2: be something I could see him doing.
18:53
Speaker 1: But she doesn't give him up.
18:55
Speaker 9: No, she doesn't give him up. And you know, I
18:58
Speaker 9: don't think that she could that point give him up.
19:01
Speaker 9: You know, she looked at a photograph. She said she
19:04
Speaker 9: was not sure that it was him, So obviously she
19:07
Speaker 9: can't be unequivocal about him committing the crime if she doesn't.
19:12
Speaker 9: If she's not sure that that photograph is.
19:14
Speaker 2: Place Matt place, he's not my son, and I can
19:17
Speaker 2: look at the side by side and tell it's him,
19:19
Speaker 2: you know, Cheryl McCollum, I want to go to you
19:23
Speaker 2: little known fact. Well into the early early wee hours
19:29
Speaker 2: of the morning, Cheryl McCallum and I go on two
19:31
Speaker 2: separate wild goose chases. After we learn after we first
19:35
Speaker 2: learn that the Feds are in Atlanta, Cheryl goes in
19:41
Speaker 2: the middle of the night to South Atlanta. I, in
19:44
Speaker 2: the middle of the night go to North Atlanta, both
19:46
Speaker 2: to stake out addresses we have been told are connected
19:50
Speaker 2: to the New York Health Boss assassin Cheryl without identifying
19:56
Speaker 2: who a potential suspect was at the time. That potential
20:01
Speaker 2: suspect was related to someone formally.
20:05
Speaker 1: In law enforcement.
20:07
Speaker 2: And you and I spent many a long hour that
20:09
Speaker 2: night discussing that the law enforcement would absolutely turn over
20:15
Speaker 2: his relative, no question. But a mother ryl to you
20:22
Speaker 2: blame her in your heart of hearts. Would you convict
20:25
Speaker 2: a mother for not turning over her son.
20:28
Speaker 4: You know, it's funny you mentioned that because you and
20:30
Speaker 4: I did have that conversation that the person that we
20:32
Speaker 4: knew the road question, they would have made that call.
20:36
Speaker 4: But here's what I said early on, and I'm going
20:38
Speaker 4: to stand by it. You can take the mama out.
20:42
Speaker 4: There's siblings, there's cousins, there's former co workers, there's former classmates.
20:46
Speaker 4: They knew the mental state, they had reported him missing,
20:51
Speaker 4: they saw the video, they saw the face exposed photographs.
20:56
Speaker 4: I guarantee you there were phone calls and text messages
21:00
Speaker 4: between all of these people trying to get in touch
21:02
Speaker 4: with him. Where are you? Mama's words to me are
21:06
Speaker 4: very clear when she says seeing him doing she saw
21:10
Speaker 4: that video, she saw the photograph. She knew, they all knew.
21:15
Speaker 11: Private security guards have been called in to protect McDonald's
21:18
Speaker 11: workers at in Altuna, Pennsylvania location as employees receive threats
21:22
Speaker 11: since Luigi Man Johnny's arrest is the location. Police say
21:25
Speaker 11: officers and locals involved in the arrest have been receiving threats,
21:28
Speaker 11: and the Altuni Police Chief, Derek Slope says the department
21:31
Speaker 11: takes all threats seriously. The restaurant is flooded with negative
21:35
Speaker 11: reviews that Google is removing that include things such as
21:38
Speaker 11: rats in the kitchen.
21:39
Speaker 1: Okay? Is this correct? Christina Wyo.
21:44
Speaker 2: The McDonald's employees have to hire security after they call
21:51
Speaker 2: law enforcement to arrest a cold blooded assassin.
21:54
Speaker 1: How are they the band guy? When did they get
21:57
Speaker 1: so best?
21:58
Speaker 6: Awkwards, It is absolutely unfathomable that you have to have
22:03
Speaker 6: security at McDonald's because you reported a crime. Now people
22:06
Speaker 6: have been going out there, They've been seeing two and
22:08
Speaker 6: three security guards ahead of time out the employees there,
22:13
Speaker 6: but also the officers in that town, in that county
22:15
Speaker 6: have been getting threats. But there's this cult following surrounding him.
22:19
Speaker 6: They all paint him out to be the hero. The
22:21
Speaker 6: latest thing I've seen on social media as people are
22:23
Speaker 6: photoshopping themselves in pictures next to pictures of Mangioni, saying
22:28
Speaker 6: things like we just went on this wild trip to
22:30
Speaker 6: Las Vegas. He's the best employee ever, and they're sort
22:33
Speaker 6: of making fun of this whole situation. But there's nothing
22:36
Speaker 6: funny about a father too getting gunned down in the
22:38
Speaker 6: middle of Manhattan assassination style.
22:40
Speaker 2: Well, you're absolutely right, Christina. As a matter of fact,
22:45
Speaker 2: listen to this.
22:46
Speaker 11: In a shocking display from a crowd in Boston, cheers
22:49
Speaker 11: a rub as pictures of Luigi Mangioni are shown on
22:51
Speaker 11: a screen as the DJ plays Miley Cyrus he could
22:55
Speaker 11: be the one. The event is Bop to the Top
22:57
Speaker 11: Tourist Jingle Bop and is being held at a Big
23:00
Speaker 11: Night live venue in Boston. The crowd has heard cheering
23:03
Speaker 11: as photos of Luigi Mangoni, taken from his social media
23:06
Speaker 11: accounts up here on the screen. The cheers get even
23:09
Speaker 11: louder as Mangoni's recent booking photos are shown. Mangoni has
23:13
Speaker 11: become something of a sex symbol since his arrest, and
23:15
Speaker 11: a fundraiser has raised over one hundred thousand dollars for
23:19
Speaker 11: his legal fees, with his lawyer claiming to receive offers
23:22
Speaker 11: from people wanting to pay Mangoni's legal bills.
23:25
Speaker 2: I hardly know what to say. He's the one by
23:28
Speaker 2: Miley Cyrus cheers erupting people photoshopping themselves with MANGIONI why
23:37
Speaker 2: is marder one somehow okay? Joining me is a guest
23:41
Speaker 2: who has seen literally thousands of death scenes. Joining us
23:47
Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator and professor forensics Jacksonville State University,
23:53
Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
23:56
Speaker 2: of a hitting series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Scott,
24:01
Speaker 2: you know, having lived through the murder of my fiance,
24:05
Speaker 2: it almost didn't seem real until I came down off
24:08
Speaker 2: the witness stand and I saw his bloody denim shirt
24:14
Speaker 2: on council table that he was wearing that day on
24:18
Speaker 2: the construction site where he was working. And for many
24:25
Speaker 2: years after that, it seemed like a horrible blur. I
24:28
Speaker 2: think part of the reason MINGIONI is seen as some
24:32
Speaker 2: sort of modern day robin Hood is because people don't
24:37
Speaker 2: understand what murder is and why should they?
24:43
Speaker 1: Why should they? But could you explain what it is?
24:49
Speaker 1: What the victim went through?
24:51
Speaker 2: Lying there at six forty five a m. In the
24:55
Speaker 2: dark on a sidewalk in New York, hearing traffic going by,
25:01
Speaker 2: and realizing he's bleeding out dead, that he would never
25:05
Speaker 2: see his children again.
25:08
Speaker 12: Yeah, you know, he takes this round to his back,
25:11
Speaker 12: Nancy hollow point round. As a matter of fact, just
25:15
Speaker 12: like the one I have here is a nine millimeter
25:17
Speaker 12: that expands to twice its size and diameter. And as
25:20
Speaker 12: it's expanding, it's ripping apart tissue in his chest cavity,
25:25
Speaker 12: and I would wager that it probably clipped along. They
25:29
Speaker 12: don't know what it's like, you know, as they're cheering
25:32
Speaker 12: on at their concert or whatever the hell it was
25:35
Speaker 12: with Miley Cyrus playing in the background. They don't know
25:38
Speaker 12: what it's like to see somebody, you know, expiating blood
25:44
Speaker 12: out of their mouth and their nose and it's it's frothy,
25:47
Speaker 12: you know, it's frothy because it's filled with oxygen. And
25:50
Speaker 12: he can't catch his breath any longer, and his life
25:52
Speaker 12: slips away and the last thing he sees is his
25:55
Speaker 12: filthy sidewalk in NYC. But yet they continue, they continue
26:00
Speaker 12: on with all of this nonsense. This guy is supposed
26:03
Speaker 12: to be what they call him, an anti capitalist. This
26:06
Speaker 12: is the first thing, you know what, Nancy. And some
26:08
Speaker 12: of these images I've seen him clad in like Columbia
26:11
Speaker 12: Sports where I saw a picture early on from Hawaii
26:14
Speaker 12: where he's wearing Rayman aviators. There was another shot of
26:18
Speaker 12: him wearing probably Costa sunglasses. Gee, I don't see him
26:22
Speaker 12: walking around in homemade him clothing where he's making his
26:25
Speaker 12: own shoes and he's protesting about everything that's going on
26:29
Speaker 12: out there. He's living the easy life, just like these
26:32
Speaker 12: people at the concert. They have no idea what this
26:35
Speaker 12: man endured and also more importantly, what his wife and
26:39
Speaker 12: his kids are going to have to endure the following
26:42
Speaker 12: years as we go through, and they're going to wind
26:45
Speaker 12: up having to go to court too. Problemly.
26:46
Speaker 2: You know, I'm thinking about everything you're saying, Joe Scott,
26:49
Speaker 2: and so many times I've wondered, I've wanted to believe.
26:55
Speaker 2: I chose to believe that Keith, my fiance, didn't feel
26:59
Speaker 2: any after the first bullet, But I don't think that
27:04
Speaker 2: that's true. I think that he fell over in the
27:09
Speaker 2: front seat of his truck as the perp continued to
27:13
Speaker 2: shoot him.
27:14
Speaker 1: Because he was.
27:14
Speaker 2: Shot in the back, the head, the face, the neck,
27:22
Speaker 2: he had to feel some of that and it's agonizing
27:28
Speaker 2: to put it ephemistically, to think what he went through.
27:33
Speaker 2: He was still alive, his heart beating when he got
27:38
Speaker 2: finally from this.
27:39
Speaker 1: Remote location to the hospital. What did he feel?
27:44
Speaker 2: How much did it hurt? Did he realize what was
27:48
Speaker 2: happening to him? Did he think of me? Is there
27:53
Speaker 2: anything I could have done? What do you think that
27:57
Speaker 2: these boys are going to grow up wandering about their
28:02
Speaker 2: dad dying on the sidewalk and doctor Bethany, I mean
28:08
Speaker 2: they complete futility of gunning down Thompson, And now the
28:15
Speaker 2: children have to grow up wondering why did this happen
28:20
Speaker 2: to my dad for the rest of their lives, and
28:24
Speaker 2: people are celebrating it.
28:26
Speaker 7: Nancy, the children and the public will have to come
28:29
Speaker 7: to terms with the fact that this alleged crime did
28:33
Speaker 7: not come from an altruistic place. If MANGIONI had wanted
28:36
Speaker 7: to change the healthcare system. He could have become an organizer,
28:41
Speaker 7: a politician. He could have helped change legislation. He could
28:44
Speaker 7: have served on the board of the hospital that his
28:46
Speaker 7: family donated a million dollars to. Again, I don't know
28:49
Speaker 7: MANGIONI I've never seen him personally. But the public who
28:52
Speaker 7: is idolizing him needs to place in context the personality
28:58
Speaker 7: of somebody who could have anti social personality disorder. They
29:02
Speaker 7: relate to others on the basis of power, not affection.
29:05
Speaker 7: They like to torture, they like to humiliate. I would
29:08
Speaker 7: think it would be fascinating to find to really locate
29:11
Speaker 7: a girl, perhaps that he dated. How did he treat
29:14
Speaker 7: that girl? Perhaps he put her on a pedestal at first,
29:18
Speaker 7: and when she rejected him, he stopped her.
29:19
Speaker 8: I mean, I'm just I'm making this up. But I
29:22
Speaker 8: want the public to understand that this is not just
29:25
Speaker 8: somebody who thought somebody. This is somebody a full person
29:29
Speaker 8: with a full identity, who lacks empathy, who's impulsive, who
29:34
Speaker 8: really may well not care about anyone around him.
29:38
Speaker 7: He just committed the crime because it was exciting, not
29:41
Speaker 7: because he was trying to help anybody out.
29:43
Speaker 2: To Tom Smith, following up on Joe Scott and doctor Bethany.
29:47
Speaker 2: Tom Smith, former NYPD thirty years on these very streets, Okay,
29:54
Speaker 2: star of the Goal Shields podcast.
29:57
Speaker 1: Tom.
29:57
Speaker 2: I think that people are just misguided. I don't think
30:00
Speaker 2: that they're hateful or that they truly want murder to occur.
30:07
Speaker 2: They have no reason to understand what it's like to
30:12
Speaker 2: go to a homicide scene, the smell of coagulating blood,
30:16
Speaker 2: the obvious signs of a struggle where the victim wanted
30:21
Speaker 2: to live. They're not forced to think about it the
30:24
Speaker 2: way we are when we get closing statements, when we
30:28
Speaker 2: build a case, or in your case, when you investigate murders,
30:33
Speaker 2: could you explain what a murder scene, what a murder
30:37
Speaker 2: really is. It's not like in the movies or TV.
30:41
Speaker 10: No, it's horrible. It's the worst scene to go to
30:43
Speaker 10: as a detective because every element of emotion is in there.
30:48
Speaker 10: You know you want to get it done, but you're
30:50
Speaker 10: feeling for the victim and you described it perfectly, and
30:54
Speaker 10: it's not instant. A bunch of times in any homicide,
30:58
Speaker 10: it's not instant. There is pain, they're struggling, there's thoughts,
31:02
Speaker 10: and then from there you're dealing with the families and
31:05
Speaker 10: notifications and interviews, which is always heartbreaking, especially like in
31:10
Speaker 10: this case, you're dealing with children, and you're dealing with
31:13
Speaker 10: a wife, and those emotions carry on throughout the investigation.
31:17
Speaker 10: And these people who are just clamoring onto this have
31:20
Speaker 10: no idea of the reality that homicides entail, and it's
31:26
Speaker 10: evident by their statements and their actions, which are totally.
31:36
Speaker 3: The beach bomb. Life of alleged CEO slayer Luigi Mangioni
31:41
Speaker 3: is revealed as roommates and friends speak out. The former
31:45
Speaker 3: Ivy League student and software engineer gallivanting in Hawaii and
31:50
Speaker 3: Japan before the murder.
31:53
Speaker 2: Luigi mangione being celebrated all around the world.
31:57
Speaker 1: He is a killer?
31:59
Speaker 2: How did this guy I turn into a sex symbol?
32:02
Speaker 2: I don't understand this, but what I do know is
32:06
Speaker 2: that Brian Thompson died a painful death alone, face down
32:11
Speaker 2: on a New York sidewalk, his family, his children and
32:17
Speaker 2: wife far far away. So who is Luigi Mangioni.
32:23
Speaker 11: Who is the real Luigi Mangioni? Is he a back
32:27
Speaker 11: pain riddled patient or a free, willing beach bum living
32:30
Speaker 11: a privileged life on a beach photos and comments from
32:33
Speaker 11: friends living alongside Mangoni in Hawaii indicate the ACU shooter
32:37
Speaker 11: had fun hanging out with beautiful women and tan buddies
32:40
Speaker 11: at the two thousand dollars a month retreat surf break.
32:43
Speaker 11: This image is a far cry from the man who
32:46
Speaker 11: says his lower vertebrate is misaligned, reportedly by at least
32:50
Speaker 11: half an inch. Mangoni has posted an extray of a
32:53
Speaker 11: spine with multiple screws holding bones together. Mangoni says the
32:57
Speaker 11: pain makes it impossible for him to have sex.
33:00
Speaker 1: Okay.
33:00
Speaker 2: Christina Ohio, joining US national news anchor's Hill News Channel,
33:06
Speaker 2: I've seen photos of Luigimi and Gioni practicing yoga tinder
33:12
Speaker 2: matching with the yoga guru tickling multiple girls in a
33:17
Speaker 2: hallway all at once, with them laughing giddily. He doesn't
33:23
Speaker 2: look like he's in pain to me, And somehow we're
33:26
Speaker 2: chalking off his actions because he was an intense Okay,
33:31
Speaker 2: he's not an intense back.
33:32
Speaker 1: Pain right there.
33:34
Speaker 2: Helped me out here, Christina, what about his beach bum
33:37
Speaker 2: life just before the assassination?
33:41
Speaker 6: Right well, in any case, no matter how much pain
33:43
Speaker 6: you're and it's never okay to murder somebody. But according
33:45
Speaker 6: to these pictures, according to everything that all of his
33:48
Speaker 6: friends are saying, he did have a lot of fun.
33:51
Speaker 6: He was surfing, he was on the beaches, he was
33:53
Speaker 6: living in a high rise in Hawaii, And in fact,
33:56
Speaker 6: right around the time he disappeared, he traps off to
33:59
Speaker 6: Asia and he went on a backpacking trip. He actually
34:02
Speaker 6: bragged about having the ability to fit everything that he
34:06
Speaker 6: needed to live into one tiny little backpack. Because he
34:09
Speaker 6: was talking about having this minimalist lifestyle like we talked
34:12
Speaker 6: about on our last conversation. He is a walking, talking contradiction.
34:16
Speaker 6: So is this whole back pain scenario a cover? Is
34:20
Speaker 6: this an excuse for why he allegedly committed the crime
34:24
Speaker 6: that he did. Is his real life? This party boy?
34:27
Speaker 6: Is he a narcissist? What drove him? But we do
34:30
Speaker 6: know that there are two different Luigi manngionies. And I
34:33
Speaker 6: tell you what, if he's bragging about having everything he
34:36
Speaker 6: needs in a tiny little backpack, then he's about to
34:38
Speaker 6: have everything he needs in a fifteen x six cell,
34:41
Speaker 6: because that's where if he gets convicted, he will be
34:43
Speaker 6: spending the rest of his life exactly the way he
34:46
Speaker 6: wanted to in a minimalist fashion.
34:48
Speaker 1: You know.
34:49
Speaker 2: Thoma samanth is joining me, former NYPD detective and co
34:52
Speaker 2: host the Goal Shields podcast. Donia ever get tired of
34:57
Speaker 2: entitled brat's why about the world and how awful it
35:03
Speaker 2: is while they've got mommy's gold card. Yeah, he's got
35:07
Speaker 2: everything he needs. It can fit in one backpack or
35:10
Speaker 2: more a better put in one wallet, as long as
35:14
Speaker 2: he's got his parents' money. This is a guy living
35:17
Speaker 2: in a high rise in Honolulu, waking up to the
35:21
Speaker 2: beach every morning. Did you wake up to a beach
35:23
Speaker 2: for you this morning? Because I sure did not, living
35:26
Speaker 2: in this luxury high rise with a group of other
35:29
Speaker 2: beach bumps in a shared space. Photoed tickling girls in
35:34
Speaker 2: the hallway, multiple girls at once. Every shot I see
35:38
Speaker 2: of him, he's out in nature. He's not at work.
35:42
Speaker 2: We keep hearing he quit his job. He was laid off. Gee,
35:47
Speaker 2: I wonder why. Maybe the job interfered with the tickling.
35:51
Speaker 2: I don't know, But don't you ever get exhausted with
35:57
Speaker 2: all the whining and complaining, And oh my goodness, he
36:02
Speaker 2: might as well bunked up with the wrists, the whining
36:05
Speaker 2: and complaining. Tom Smith, we are talking about murder.
36:09
Speaker 10: It's one after another with these stories and thinking I
36:12
Speaker 10: can get away with it because of who mom and
36:14
Speaker 10: Dad are and the money that I have, And it
36:17
Speaker 10: never ends up that way. But it continues to happen,
36:20
Speaker 10: and these stories continue to come up with these crimes.
36:22
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCallum, I assume you've seeing the beach bum photos
36:26
Speaker 2: and the two thousand dollars a month high rise and
36:29
Speaker 2: the Froli king in Honolulu.
36:32
Speaker 4: Nancy is baffling. He is again a walking contradiction. Everything
36:38
Speaker 4: about this kid. He makes you look right to only
36:41
Speaker 4: force you to go left because it doesn't make any sense.
36:44
Speaker 4: He's a tech expert that he uses a notebook. He
36:48
Speaker 4: supposedly is against this wealthy ceo, yet he comes for money.
36:56
Speaker 4: He now was going to hire this top notch attorney,
36:59
Speaker 4: but people are sending him money for his defense. He
37:02
Speaker 4: sits there and says, well, you know, I'm going to
37:04
Speaker 4: make this ghost gun so I can get away with
37:06
Speaker 4: this crime. Yet he shows his faith. His mom reports
37:10
Speaker 4: him missing, even though you know he's this kid, this
37:13
Speaker 4: balancing around from island to you know, big city and
37:18
Speaker 4: all around. He is a walking contradiction. And it's one
37:22
Speaker 4: of the reasons that I believe the DA is going
37:25
Speaker 4: to be able to put together this story of just
37:28
Speaker 4: how full of crap he is when he says, hey,
37:30
Speaker 4: I picked this person to murder and didn't even look
37:34
Speaker 4: him up properly.
37:35
Speaker 13: One of the most interesting things from the Luigi Mangiooni
37:38
Speaker 13: case is the fact that there's a repetition of the
37:40
Speaker 13: number two eighty six on the banner of his ex profile.
37:43
Speaker 13: He has the Pokemon creature known as Breloum, which is
37:46
Speaker 13: number two hundred and eighty six in the collection. Luigi
37:49
Speaker 13: also has exactly two hundred and eighty six posts on
37:52
Speaker 13: x According to somebody on Twitter, Luigi was found out
37:55
Speaker 13: a McDonald's exactly two hundred and eighty six miles away
37:58
Speaker 13: from the crime scene.
38:00
Speaker 2: That is just one of many many Luigi Mangioni conspiracies
38:06
Speaker 2: on TikTok. That one tied in to Pokemon somehow straight out.
38:11
Speaker 2: To Cheryl McCollum, a founder, director Cold Case Research Institute
38:14
Speaker 2: and star of Zone seven, Cheryl, the conspiracy theories are
38:21
Speaker 2: just starting, okay, oh, but it's spreading, it's infecting. As
38:26
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, one University Pennsylvania professor.
38:30
Speaker 1: Lauded Mangioni online.
38:32
Speaker 2: Of course she's since taken that down and apologized. But
38:36
Speaker 2: I don't get the lionization and the glorification of Luigi
38:41
Speaker 2: Mangioni and all these far fetched theories, even going as
38:45
Speaker 2: far as Pokemon.
38:46
Speaker 4: Well, let's talk about hidden messages in one of the
38:48
Speaker 4: issues with them. They can be misinterpreted. Two ABY six
38:52
Speaker 4: is an angel number literally means prosperity in your finances.
38:57
Speaker 4: In California criminal code, it's sodomy, So he might want
39:01
Speaker 4: to be pretty clear about what he's talking about.
39:03
Speaker 2: I guess what I'm getting at, and I want to
39:05
Speaker 2: go to Joe Scott Morgan on this is the disconnect
39:10
Speaker 2: between what Mangione allegedly did now facing brand new murder
39:15
Speaker 2: one charge is very very rare in the state of
39:18
Speaker 2: New York, what he actually did, and these far fetched, trivial,
39:24
Speaker 2: frivolous conspiracy theories.
39:26
Speaker 12: Yeah, prediction. By the way, as with all these guys,
39:29
Speaker 12: people are going to start getting tattoos of his face
39:32
Speaker 12: on their body that they will wear forever and ever.
39:36
Speaker 12: The reality is is that this guy planned and perpetrated
39:40
Speaker 12: a homicide on a New York City street, and he
39:44
Speaker 12: left behind two orphaned kids as a result of these
39:48
Speaker 12: actions allegedly. All right, so my question is going back
39:54
Speaker 12: to this idea that you know he's living this life.
39:58
Speaker 12: Where's he getting all of this money from in order
40:01
Speaker 12: to you know, you said he was unemployed, Nancy is
40:05
Speaker 12: does he still get money from his family? How does
40:08
Speaker 12: he afford to go out and create a ghost weapon?
40:12
Speaker 12: I don't understand that, and not just a ghost weapon,
40:15
Speaker 12: a suppressed ghost weapon. He acquires ammunition. He's living in
40:19
Speaker 12: a place that's two thousand dollars a month, and you're
40:22
Speaker 12: telling me that his mom doesn't know where he is.
40:26
Speaker 12: She's you know, listed him as a missing person. I'm
40:30
Speaker 12: not buying it. I think that there's a lot more
40:32
Speaker 12: here relative to what his activities have been, and they
40:36
Speaker 12: need to stay focused on the things that they can
40:39
Speaker 12: prove in this case instead of all of this ancillary
40:42
Speaker 12: nonsense that people are getting caught up in with this bozo.
40:45
Speaker 2: You know, I wouldn't want to waste his pain on anyone,
40:49
Speaker 2: much less the TikTokers who are glorifying him. I wun't
40:56
Speaker 2: want anyone to know the pain of the person you
40:59
Speaker 2: love them being murdered, just shot down in cold blood
41:03
Speaker 2: in a misdirected Robin Hood attempt. At this hour, we
41:09
Speaker 2: are hearing that Mangioni is no longer going to fight
41:14
Speaker 2: extradition from Pennsylvania. Why Maybe he wants a different CI
41:18
Speaker 2: Correctional Institute. Maybe he thinks the conditions would be better
41:21
Speaker 2: in New York. Maybe it's more convenient for his lawyers.
41:25
Speaker 2: But who can get into the mind of an alleged killer.
41:29
Speaker 2: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend.