Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Missing Mom Debbie Collier Found Stripped, Dead & Charred After Bizarre Text

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Missing Mom Debbie Collier Found Stripped, Dead & Charred After Bizarre Text · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. My mom goes missing, then
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: sends a bizarre text to her grown daughter, stating they're
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: not gonna let me go. I love you and the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: key to the house is under the flower pot. Her
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: body discovered about sixty miles away from home, naked down
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: the side of a ravine, clutching a tree burned. What
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: happened to Deborah Collier aka Debbie I mean it? See Grace,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: here at Fox Nay in series XM one eleven. Take
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at w XIA eleven. This morning,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: eleven Alive obtained a police report offering new details showing
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Athens Cork County police working with Habersham County investigators on
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: September eleventh to find colliers rented minivan which had been
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: pinned using satellite radio. The report says the vehicle was
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: unlocked and no one was inside. A police officer stated
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: that he saw the same vehicle there the day before
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  Speaker 1: around five pm. I've got an all star panel to
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: introduce to you, but first let me go to special
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: guest Cody Alcorn, Reporter eleven Alive w XIA. He's been
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: on the scene from the beginning. Now, we just heard
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: your colleague Joe Ripley state that a cop stated he
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: saw the rental vehicle. I believe it was a black
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Chrysler PACIFICA there before five pm the next day. I've
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: been losing around three seventeen. It was first spotted the
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  Speaker 1: next day. I'm only asking because I want to narrow
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: the timeline. That's right, yeah, Gep. But he said that
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: he saw that same vehicle apart right there in that
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: rural area of northeast Georgia the day before September tenth,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: the same day she's reported missing. He saw that vehicle
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: there about five pm. And he also noted though he
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: didn't be that was suspicious at the time because he
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: says a lot of people in that area do pull off.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: This is a rural areas to Luva Falls in that area, right,
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  Speaker 1: it's a pull off for a logging road. Sidney didn't
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: one of the cops or another witness state they saw
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the vehicle there September ten, the day she was reported missing,
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  Speaker 1: at three seventeen pm. Okay, that's when the text message
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: come through. You're both right, So spotted around five o'clock
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: September ten, So that is the end of my timeline
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: that we knew off for sure, although I believe when
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: she's sitting that bizarre text message, she was already kidnapped
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: or dead, because I don't think she sent that text message. Guys,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: we're talking about mother Debbie Collier. Her body found charred
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: but not totally down the side of a ravine, along
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  Speaker 1: with a black blue tarp, a red tooteback, and near
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: her rented vehicle. But where did it really all start?
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Take a list to our friend Dave mac at crime
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: online dot com. On Saturday, September tenth, at three seventeen pm,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Amanda beard And got an unexpected surprise from her mother,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Debbie Callier. Without any warning, Debbie used Benmo and digitally
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: transferred two thousand, three hundred and eighty five dollars to
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: her daughter Amanda. Amanda wasn't expecting any money from her
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: mother and it wasn't something she normally did, but it
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: was the text message that accompanied the money that shocked
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: and frightened Amanda. In the text with the money, Debbie
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  Speaker 1: call Your wrote, they are not going to let me go.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Love you. Joining me is a high profile criminal defense
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: attorney Renee Rockwell. You can find her on Facebook at
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Renee with two ease Renee dot Rockwell joining us out
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: of the Atlanta jurisdiction. No stranger to a courtroom. She
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: has tried well over one hundred jury trials and literally
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  Speaker 1: thousands of Please, Renee, thank you for being with us.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: This smells you know when you smell old fish, you
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: know immediately don't eat it. I'm not buying this. Something's wrong.
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  Speaker 1: Who facing death rights? Oh, by the way, the key
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  Speaker 1: of the house is under the flower pot. Nobody you
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: remember Gabby Petito? Renee Rockwell, Remember Gabby Petito and her
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: fiance Brian Laundry, who murdered her, was sending fake texts
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  Speaker 1: to family members and they knew because she referred to
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  Speaker 1: her grandfather or uncle by his name. That would be
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: like me calling my father Walter Malcolm Gray Senior instead
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: of saying daddy yny. Right then that was fake. Who
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  Speaker 1: Renee would write a text? It says they're not gonna
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  Speaker 1: let me go. I'm gonna die. Ps the flower pot
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  Speaker 1: on the front porch while the keys under it. No, Nancy.
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  Speaker 1: What's interesting is that she says they are not going
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  Speaker 1: to let me go Toma love you not I love you?
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  Speaker 1: The money is interesting? Did she really send the money?
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  Speaker 1: Did somebody else that knew how to get into her
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: phone send the money? Here's the question, Nancy, where's the telephone?
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Where's the cellphone? Yeah? I've been wondering that too. I
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: keep saying that the phone needs to be triangulated and tracked,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: and not only to find the cell phone Renee Rockwell,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: but to also find out if anyone close to Debrah
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Collier's phone was traveling with her. Now, why would she
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: leave the house with nothing but a driver's license in
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: a debit card and not her cell phone? That doesn't
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: make sense. Is a cell phone back at the house
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: hasn't been found? But you're facing death and you think
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  Speaker 1: to send a venmo and the amount? Karen start and
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: joining me renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. You
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: can find her on Twitter at Karen's psych and at
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Karen Stark dot com. That's Karen When to see Karen.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: The amount is bizarre, wasn't it, Cody Alcorn? Wasn't it?
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  Speaker 1: Twenty eight thirty five two eight hundred and thirty five
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  Speaker 1: dollars two thousand, three hundred and eighty five dollars. You
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: know you've better quick correcting me, young man. Okay, what
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: was it? Two thousand, three hundred, two three hundred eighty five. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: ondd number of Karen Stark. You know what it reminds
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: me of. It reminds me of the ransom letter. They
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: excuse me. Second ransom letter in the jam and a
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  Speaker 1: Ramsey case. The first there was something ransom letter. I
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: guess it's a kidnapper just kicked back in the living
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  Speaker 1: room of the Ramsey home. I'm afraid of detection in
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: the middle of the night. The second ransom letter stated
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  Speaker 1: the kidnapper killer wanted one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Where do you get that number? Where? Okay, Cody, go
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: ahead and tell me. Was that not the right number?
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: On the missing person's report, it says she sent the
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  Speaker 1: TEXTA three seventeen for two thousand, three hundred eighty five
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  Speaker 1: dollars through bend right the number the number, Cody, Why
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  Speaker 1: two thousand, three hundred and eighty five dollars? Why not
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  Speaker 1: twenty five hundred? Why not three thousand? Why two three
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  Speaker 1: eight five? Karen start in her moment of death, She's
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: sending punctuated sentences. They're not gonna let me go Comma,
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  Speaker 1: I love you. The key to the house is under
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  Speaker 1: the flower pot, and here's twenty three hundred eighty five dollars.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: That doesn't bother anybody. That's not a weird fact. I
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: keep looking over at you, Jackie, but you're showing no emotion. What.
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  Speaker 1: I would not put you on a jerry with that
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  Speaker 1: poker face. What about it, Karen Stark, There's nothing about
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: this that makes any sense, really, none of it, Karen Stark. No,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let you get away with a generalism today. No,
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  Speaker 1: there is no history between the two where this mother
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: has sent her daughter anything to them, though, and then
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: suddenly she sends her this strange amounted bunny, and she
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: adds love you like I'll see you soon. And by
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: the way, the key is under the flower pot. That's
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  Speaker 1: not the last thing, God help me, that I would
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  Speaker 1: say to my son her daughter, Key's under the flower pot.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: I hope I don't go out like that. Renee Rockwell,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: you and I have seen a lot of murder cases,
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  Speaker 1: but I don't believe those would be my last words
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  Speaker 1: to the loves of my life. Key's under the flower pot,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: like she didn't know where the key was. Nancy, she
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: knew where the key. I'm not worried about the twenty
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  Speaker 1: three eighty five that might have been all she had
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: in the account. You're right, You're absolutely all right. The
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: way you keep saying that she said they're not going
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: to let me go, Comma, I love you. She didn't
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: even say I love you. She says love you. That's
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: she didn't send that. Nancy. I agree that whoever knew
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: who had to hit on her phone at that. Okay,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: let's take a listen to our friend Dave Mackett Crime Online.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Listen to what he says about this mysterious text message.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Amanda Bearden was so shocked when her mother used Venmo
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  Speaker 1: to send nearly twenty four hundred dollars with the cryptic
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  Speaker 1: text message, they said, they are not going to let
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  Speaker 1: me go. Love you. There's a key to the house
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: in the blue flower pond by the door. Amanda immediately
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: called her mother's cell phone and went to voicemail. She
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: tried it again and again with the same result. Reaching
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: out to Debbie's husband of nine years, Steve, he said
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: he hadn't seen Debbie since he went to bed the
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: night before. Frustrated and scared, Amanda and Steve reported Debbie
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: missing around six pm. Less than three hours have passed
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  Speaker 1: since the cryptic message. I don't like that either. Time
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  Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, Cody Alcorn special guests joining us
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: for Investigative Reporter with eleven Alive. Wxia Atlanta, who's been
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: on this case from the very beginning, has been knocking
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: on the doors of the neighbors. Would anybody talk to you, Cody.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: No one's talked to anybody that's went out to that neighborhood,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: and the only neighbors that have talked have been more
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: to the paper journalists who produce papers, saying that you know,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: they see them, and they really didn't go out and
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: talk to anybody. They kind of just reclused into that home.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Tody Alicorn. I don't know if you've seen this before yet,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: but there is a picture of her, Deborah Debbie Collier
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  Speaker 1: really beaten up, and the picture is from September twenty twenty,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: as I recall, the picture was twenty twenty September yep,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and she is really beaten up. Now. She says that
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: she fell on pavement and hurt her face, which is
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: entirely possible. It's just something to percolate to just think about.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: It was on her Facebook, thank you. It was on
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: her Facebook. That's right, That's where we found it on
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: her Facebook. No question that it's her. Did you know
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: about that? I actually saw that this morning and someone
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  Speaker 1: sent that to me on Facebook after we did our
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: report last night. And again, you know, that's where people
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: are sending me seeing it is questionable, you know, her
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: posting this thing that you know, she planted her face
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  Speaker 1: on a concrete sidewalk, So I think, you know a
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: lot of people are questioning that as well. And the
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: other thing too. A lot of people a question and
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: we did as well, is if you send your daughter
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  Speaker 1: a text seeing you've been kidnapped at three typically most
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: I know if my mom said me that, I would
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: call nine one immediately, but it was until three hours
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  Speaker 1: later they found a missing person's report. Yeah, well, let's
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: examine that. So the text came in three seventeen pm Saturday,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: September ten, I understand what actually take a listen to
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: our forensic crime online dot com family last heard from
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Debbie call You're at three seventeen pm. Saturday, September tenth.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Less than three hours later, Debbie's husband, Steven, daughter Amanda
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: report Debbie missing. Steve tells police he last saw Debbie
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: the night before when he went to bed. Police are
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: skeptical until they hear that Steve and Debbie sleep in
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: separate rooms due to Steve snoring. Steve says Debbie's rented
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Chrysler SUV within the driveway when he left for work
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: that morning. Amanda tells police Debbie left the house with
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: nothing except her driver's license in debit guard Renee Rockwell,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and they sleep in separate rooms because he snores. Renee Rockwell,
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  Speaker 1: is there a man on this planet that does not
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: store Nancy, that does not bother me at all? The
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: sleeping in the separate bedroom, what's disturbing? Apparently nothing bothers you.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: What's taking so long to call the cop? When she
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: sends the message that says they're not going to let
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: me go? I agree. Unless there's some there's some there's
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: some monsters in her head that are rolling around that
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: the daughter is not concerned about. No, the daughter has
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: made it very clear that mother had no Debbie had
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: no mental or emotional defects or instabilities. There is no
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: way that this is suicide due to the way the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: body is found. I'm going to tell you about that.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I'm and I'll let Cody Alcorn tell you about that.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: But this is a curiosity, Joe Scott, I'm getting to you.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Hold on, man, Joey Alcorn joining us w XIA eleven alive.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: September eleven is a Sunday, right, okay? So where does
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: the husband work that he gets up on the morning
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: he sits, says he sees her at nine pm the
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: night before, which will be Friday night, September ninth. He
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: goes to bed at nine o'clock. My goodness, he must
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: be an early riser to go to bed at nine o'clock,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: he says. It. Next morning he wakes up, he goes
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: to work on Saturday morning, and he sees her car
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: or her rental car. She's been in a fender bender
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: as a black pacifica in the driveway, which indicates that
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: she's there. He didn't see her, he says, and he
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: went to work. Then nowhere from her until she sends
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: his mysterious bizarre text to her daughter and transfers her
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: twenty three eighty five via Venmo Where does he work
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: on a Saturday morning? What does he do for a living?
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Cody Alcorn. That's what we've been trying to figure out,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: and I have not been able to figure that out. Firstly,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and I have not seen anyone with details. Got one
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: thing for you that we found on LinkedIn someone with
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: his name in his area, and it's a very small population.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: It's a loan specialist at a bank. We saw that,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: but a photos not attached to it, so I'm not
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: totally sure that's him. And I can tell you this.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Banks are not open on Saturday. They're barely open at
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: three pm on Friday, all right, so I know they're
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: not open on Saturdays. Forget that. So where is he
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: going on Saturday morning? And he doesn't talk to his
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: wife all day long? I mean, maybe it's just me,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: you're a rockwell, but I'm constantly just for the fun
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: of it, of course, looking up David, my husband, one life,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: three sixty. You know he says he isn't work, is
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: he actually yes, He's always where he says he's going
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: to be, and he's always doing what he says he's doing.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: So far, I've caught him many times being good. So
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: where did he go Cody Man think he could have
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: gone to work on Saturday? You're Renee Rockwell piping in
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: go ahead, Yeah, he could have. I guess not illegals
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: to go to work on Saturday. I think he worked
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: every Saturday and every Sunday when you were a prosecutor. Well,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: you're right about that. Hey, you know what these are
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: in my notes? And Sidney is waving a sign at me.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I just want credit that I thought of this first,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: because it's in my type notes that I made this morning.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: About her cell phone, I'm curious if she didn't take
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: her cell phone with her from where did she send
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: the VENMO and send the text at three seventeen pm?
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Where was she? Do we have any evidence she was
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: forcibly taken from the home. But you know what, I'm
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: burying the lead. Let's do this. Take a listen to
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Joe Ripley eleven alive. The reports stayed. Soon after the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: van was found, A Collier's daughter later showed up to
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the scene emotional begging for answers in her mother's disappearance.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: According to the report, she told the investigators her mother
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: did not have any history of mental health issues and
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: denied any suicidal tendencies. She also stated that her mom
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: had a bad back and couldn't have walked far. Bad back,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: couldn't walk far and get this to this mom, this
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: loving mother and more from Joe Ripley Listen for. Report
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: indicates investigators saw a red tote bag near an uprooted
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: tree in the woods off Georgia Highway fifteen, along with
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: what they believe were the remains of a fire. They
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: also discovered a burnt blue tarp and a naked woman's body.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: She was lying on her back and her abdomen appeared
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: to be charred. That woman was later identified. It is
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: collier to jose Goot Morgan, professor forensic Jacksonville State University,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, host of
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: a new hit series on iHeart, and at crime online
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: dot Com Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. You know,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: the more you stage is seeing, the easier it is
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: to get caught. Here's my theory, obviously, where her body
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: was found partially charred near a fire, near a partially
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: burned blue tarp and a red tote bag, where she
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: was grasping at a little sapling on the side of
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: that ravine. That is not the primary crime scene. That's
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: where she was dumped. It could be the secondary or
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: tertiary crime scene. She was not killed there, So where
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: was she when she sent that text? And I think
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: she was wrapped in that blue tart and transported there.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Somebody tried to burn the evidence, and in their amateurish attempt,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: they did not realize it's hard to burn a body
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: to the point where it's just ashes. Yeah, you're right
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: it What occurs here is that you have to literally
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: tend the fire for a protracted period of time, like
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Stephen Avery kil Teresa Halbake and making a murderer him. Yeah,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: and you have to you have to go on firewatch
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: is essentially what it comes down to, and sit there
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: and turn the fire, turn the coals, and continue to
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: add fuel. You make it sound like a barbecue and
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I like it. Well, that's the reality of it, and
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: that's what you You got to be fully committed. This
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: to say the very least, is a half hearted attempt
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: to get rid of a body. Remember what they're saying
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: here is that she had severe burns on her abdomen.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: You know, when you say that, you're not talking about
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: something that involves the entire remain And I'm glad you
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: brought up the word ravine, Nancy, And this is why,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: because that I think is kind of being lost here.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: That's a big indicator to me. That means that whoever
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: went to this location had familiarity with this area, I
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: think personally, and they went down into this ravine with
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: the body to hide it, essentially, and a very half
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: hearted attempt. They want to get it out of sight,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: you know, the cars up on the road. But wait
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: a minute, Wait a minute. I'm with you, and I
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: agree with everything that you just said, But how did
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: she get to that sapling and pull it if she
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: were already dead when her body was disposed in the
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: blue tart. Yeah, I'm not buying that she actively pulled
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: it because lots of times when you and remember, it
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: sounds as though, and they haven't released a lot of information,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: it sounds as though the tarp was down there, the
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: body may have rolled out in lots of times, you
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: can't predict what a body is going to do when
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: you're rolling it down. Fire was there too, right, Cody Alcorn.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Wasn't the fire there and was a fresh fire? You
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: could tell it had been recently probably put out. Yeah.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: In the police report from those responding to Louis Falls
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Police officers and the Habersham County Deputies, the officer makes
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the know in his remarks that it was a fresh fire.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: It appeared that the fire was fresh. So if somebody
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: didn't just dump her down the ravine, did you hear
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: that just got morgan what Cody Alcorn said? Nobody just
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: threw her down the ravine. Somebody went down there, started
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: a fire, tried to burn her. The tart was partially burned.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: There was a tote bag there. I would be about
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: three inches every tailpipe of Lowe's home, depot, Walmart, kmart,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: feed and seed landscape, you name it. Get video or
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: recollection of who bought a blue tark and gas cans.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: And that's another thing you have to think about because she,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: whoever did this, would have had to have applied some
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: kind of acceller in order just to initiate. Bodies don't
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: just spontaneously the mate. They didn't rub two six together. No,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: any weren't on that, Cody Alcorn or there was Could
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: you detect the smell of gasoline because if gasolene or
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: some other excellents used, you would most likely be able
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: to still smell it if they did. They did not
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: write it in the incident report. But I also wanted
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: to point out too about the distance into this wooded area,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: because again, the vehicle was parked right off Highway fifteen
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: and very rural area where people go. But they've took it,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: walked in about fifty yards and then the Habersham County
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: deputy didn't anything, so we called in a canine. They
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: went another fourth of a mile into the wood so
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: it was really back in the woods. Yeah, yeah, they
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: waited about and wait, didn't she have a back probling? Yes,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: good point, Karen start. I guarantee you she didn't walk
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: back there on a nature hype. All of her clothes
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: are missing. No remnant of her clothing is found in
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: the fire pit that we know of, nor in her car.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I was distracted by a very odd question. Could you
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: put that up? Sidney? Okay? Who should I blame that
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: question on? Jackie or Sydney? What could you? What's the question? Again?
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: The sapling that was on her chest wasn't being held
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: like death flowers. Okay, I hate to even repeat that,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: but just for the sake of you, know you trying?
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Was the sapling held on her chest like death flowers?
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I thought she was gripping a sapling, Jody Alcorn. So on.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: All of these reports are three reports from those officers,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: and they are quoted seeing grasping a small tree with
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: her right hand, right hand, and the other one says
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: grasping a small with her right hand. So all three
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: officers say grasping with her right hand. I don't know
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: where you got a wreath on her chest like death flowers.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I've never even heard the phrase death flowers. That's something
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: you came up with. No, because I'm going to see
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: that over your head every time I look at her.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Look at you, Cody Alcorn joining us from eleven Alive, Jesscott,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: you were jumping in hey, jes Scott, take a listen
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: to this our cut eleven. Why would Debbie Collier have
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: left her home in Athens? Why would she have gone
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: to Habersham County, sixty miles from home? Debbie Collier had
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: worked for years for a realty business in Athens, Clark County.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: She was the front office manager. No one there was
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: available to speak about her so far. Debbie Collier's family
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: members have declined to respond to interview requests about her
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: as investigators worked to uncover who might have been threatening her,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: why she ended up here, and who killed her, and
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: why who was threatening her. She's a front office receptionist.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think she has any mob or gang ties.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: What are the what threat coming anything? Okay, Karen jump in.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I have a question for Joe Scott. I don't understand
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: if she were already dead, how she could clash into
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: her right hand exactly. Yeah, I'm right here. I don't.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know that that she could. That's one That's
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: one of my points. If if people are in a
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: fevered pitch, in order to get rid of a body,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: put as much distance as they can, they're going to
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: dump the body wherever they possibly can, and sometimes they
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: will roll them. You'll have bodies that will get hung
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: up in brush. Maybe they started the fire right there.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: The problem is this, at this point in time, we
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: don't know where this burnmark is on the ground in
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: relation to the body and also in relation to the
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: tarp itself. There's a spatial relationship that's going on here.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I think what he's trying to say in regular people
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: talk as where was the dead body in relation to
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: the fire in relationship everything. Yeah, but we know the
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: tarp and the body were partially burned. Here's another thing,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Renee Rockwell joining me, high profile defense attorney in the
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction. Renee, Clearly, this was not just a dump site,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: because somebody took her all the way there. You know,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: she couldn't walk that far because of a back element.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: All her clothes are missing. But we have no indication
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: of a rape, which means somebody stripped her but didn't
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: rape her. We don't know that yet unless they're keeping
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: that to their vest exactly. We don't know that yet.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: But somebody took her all the way back. How far
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: back in the woods was it, Cody Alcorn more than
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: a fourth of a mile. That's a long way to
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: drag a body with a body all the way back
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: there to burn her. They weren't just gonna dump her.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: They were gonna get rid of the evidence. Renee. I
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: don't think that it was just a dump It looks
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: to me like the scene was staged. If they put
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: up sappling in her hand. Good job on one other
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: thing about this area where she is in Habersham County,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: This Saint flat Land. This is rolling you're you're talking
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: to You're literally in the foothills of Appalachia right there. Well,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: that's the beginning of the Appalachian Trail. Yeah, they talk
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: about this area in the Georgia State Anthem up in
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: the hills of Habersham down to the valleys of Glen
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Habersham and the State Poem. Habersham is where the Appalachian
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Mountains begin. So you're right, and your point is My
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: point is is that whoever did this is strong and robust.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: You're not going to have some kind of diminutive person
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: that's going to take this woman out. And I don't
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: care about her size, all right, because you've also got
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: to take all of the other items out there to
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: this location as well. You're talking about tarps, all these
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: other things, and we're supposing that there is some type
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: of accelerant that's being toted along this trail as well.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Had to be at night, don't you agree it had
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: to be at night? I would think. So Van's going
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: to make multiple trips back and forth to the suv,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: which is pristine. By the way, nothing in the car
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: pro but evlens. We're going to get something from the
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: processing of the scene. Some of them have to go
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: back and forth with the body, the gas, everything they
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: need to make a fire, the tote bag, the tarp.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, I would not risk hauling that out of
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: the back of an suv, would you know. And that's
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: that brings me to my next point. There's probably obviously
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: more than one vehicle involved in this as well. Well,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I don't think that that's that well, you know, if
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: they don't have any other kind of evidence that they're
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I don't think they're giving us everything. At this point.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: There's going to be trace evidence in that van, and
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: it's going to be linked back to somebody. Was somebody
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: wearing gloves in the van, Was somebody apps in any
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: kind of touch DNA that they might have dropped off
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: of the body relative skin cells. I don't think that
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: they fully processed it at this point. There's there were
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: either two occupants in that vand possible even three, or
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: there was an additional vehicle going out there. Now, okay,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: so you want me to thank Joe Scott that up
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: to three people kid out the slightly from her home
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: kill her for what and there's no burglary, there's no
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: robbery so far we know of no rate, take her body,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: strip her down. I wonder if they stripped her down
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: because they didn't want her clothing to identify her, and
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: then try to burn her body and fail miserably. All
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: she's got as a char mark on her abdomen. That's
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: a really bad job. Time stories with Nancy Grace, Not
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: to Cody Alicorn joining us, Let's throw another wrench in
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: the works. Jodi Alcorn eleven alive. The husband says he
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: saw her the night before at nine pm when he
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: goes to sleep her suv rented suv was in the
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: driveway the next morning when he went to work on Saturday,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: but he didn't see her. Doesn't that directly conflict with
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: what the neighbors say about hearing an argument that's true?
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: There is a New York Post article that says that
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: they heard that night yelling from that home a female voice. Right, Yes, correct.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: They also said that they heard yelling on weekends and
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: on evenings when visitors would be there, and that it
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: was a young woman's voice. I don't know how they
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: could differentiate between that, but that's what they're saying. In
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: any event, we have no reason to suspect the neighbors
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of lying. So that doesn't really jibe with what the
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: husband is saying. Is that correct, Cody, according to this
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: missing person's report, I mean those are conflicting because it
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: does say that, you know, he went to vote around nine.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: They slept in different bedrooms at the last time he
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: saw her, and he didn't check on her the next day. Okay, guys,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: we know that the location of the vehicle was found
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: because the serious x N and the rental car can
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: be traced a little know. In fact, take a listen
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: to our cut eight our friend Jennifer Bellamy. Right now,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: investigators are trying to figure out what happened after a
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: woman was found dead near Tallulah Falls in North Georgia
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: on Sunday. A Serious x AND representative called Habersham County
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: authorities about a vehicle belonging to a missing person, pining
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: its location in Clarksville. Habersham County deputies and canine started
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: searching for the driver. They found a red tote bag
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: and a partially burned blue tarp before finding the woman's
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: body down in embankment and the last couple of hours,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: authorities have confirmed the victim is Deborah Collier from Athens.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Anyone with information is asked to please contact police. I
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: want to talk about the fact that the husband didn't
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: see her the morning he left, and more important, the
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: fact that police and sheriffs in that jurisdiction are saying
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: that they do not suspect a kidnap or a suicide. Well,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: obviously he's not a suicide, but they don't suspect a kidnap.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Do I have that right, Cody Alcorn. That's corrected. They
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: came out late yesterday afternoon and the chief deputy who
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: was over this case put that in black and white
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: writing and said that they do not believe this is related.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: There's no evidence supporting it was a kidnapping or that
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: this was a suicide. That tells me a lot. If
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: the sheriff is stating that in the legal sense of
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: the word Renee Rockwell, that means she was not taken
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: from her home forcibly right, they're saying that they believe
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: that it did not happen there, obviously, and they're saying
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: that they don't think that you've had anything to do
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: with somebody transporting her before her death. So where does
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: that tell you It happened at the home. I agree
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: or disagree? Well, that's what he's looking like. But you
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: know he's given statement. Her husband has given statement. So
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: the minute that they find any conflicting information that he's
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: gonna you know, he's gonna have a one on it.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: And you know what else is interesting, Nancy, there's two
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: separate spots of this case can be prosecuted in Habersham
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: and in her own home county. What about it? Way
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: in just got Morgan the sheriff is saying it wasn't
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: a kidnap. Does that mean she left voluntarily and just
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: what fell down the ravine and rolled into a fire. Yeah,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I ain't happening. And you know, when you when you
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: start to when an official like this begins to exclude possibilities,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: that indication they're kind of showing their cards a little
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: bit that they have some kind of information relative to
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: what they're thinking happened at that particular time. Because listen,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: she wasn't kidnapped, and that means you're transporting a dead body.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: That's only that I don't know for me logically, that's
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: that's really the only point you can come to. You
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: So you have to determine at what location? And also
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: very important here and I'd ask Cody to kind of
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: verify this as well. They haven't release the cause of death.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Only trauma that we've really heard about thus far as
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: is burning. We don't know cause of death. What about it,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Cody Alcorn. That's going an issue with us in the
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: news room trying to get that detail. But in the
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: same sense that they released the details yesterday, they also
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: said the coroner's office did take possession, transported her body
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: to the GBI Crime Lab, which is our state Bureau
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: of Investigation, and as of the yesterday, ten days later,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: no report regarding findings of the autopsy. So I think
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: they're just withholding that information. I think they know, they're
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: just not giving it to us. Definitely a little more information.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Zach Summer CBS forty six.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: He may take my world from me. Debbie's daughter Amanda
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: and her stepfather Stephen, reported her mother missing on the
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: evening of September tenth. Stephen said he'd seen his wife
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: the night before and that her rental was still in
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the driveway when he loved for work that morning. I
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: started going to all the different places that I thought
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: she would go like Walmart, Alta. I mean, I drove
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: around for at least two hours. That tells me, Cody Alcorn,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: that the daughter went looking for the mother and couldn't
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: find her. That's what That's what that appears to be.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: And again, you know, a lot of people who have
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: reached out to us have said, if someone said, hey,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: mom's been kidnapped, you immediately go to police. I did
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: reach out to her this morning for a came on
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: this show, and I've got her back from her because again,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions about that timeline. Guys, we're
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: hearing more about the evening before that the daughter had
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: dinner with the mother that they left in separate cars.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: You heard our cut twelve, Let's take another. Listen to
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: our cut fourteen. She was a beautiful, time giving woman,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: and Amanda says the last time she saw her mom
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: was Friday night. They ate dinner, handsome errands and went
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: home separately. She had this message for her mother's killer.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I just wanted them to rite in hill I do, sir.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not going to paint my pain away.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I know it's not, but I want justice from my mom.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: In my mind, that explains the delay that we were
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: discussing earlier. I believe it was you, Karen Start, why
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: the daughter waited three hours and Cody Alcorn was at
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: the daughter or the husband her step father that reported
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Devor missing. On the missing person's report for Matham's Clark
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: County Police, it lists Stephen as the reporting person and
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Amanda plicit his other so it appears he is the
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: one being there. Yes, okay, so she goes looking, Karen
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Start for her mother. She goes looking from her mother.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: That you know, when I think about it, I think
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: you can relate to this Nancy. If you get such
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: a strange text message like that, you'd go looking for
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: your mother. You would immediately called the police. I agree.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: I agree with you, Karen Start when I quickly too early.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: We've got to see all the phones, we've got to
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: pay all the phone and we've got to see if
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: he's committed to any kind of position I mean in
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the husband. Just Scott final thought, Oh yeah, absolutely. Electronics
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: are going to be the key in this Nancy that
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Venmo deposits. That's going to play really big in that.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I want to know where she was. Was that cell
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: phone in the home? When that text was sent, Cody
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Alcorn with US keeping us updated on the very lightest
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: goodbye friend M.