Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: Remembering Lindsey Graham, Ro Khanna’s Israel Controversy & The Smithsonian’s History Debate

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Normally Podcast: Remembering Lindsey Graham, Ro Khanna’s Israel Controversy & The Smithsonian’s History Debate · Normally

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, we are back on normally the show with
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: normalist takes for when the news gets weird. I am
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Mary Catnham.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I'm Carol marco Witz. How was your weekend, Mary Catherine?
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, pretty good. We were swimming, having a good time.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: My four year old is now officially fearless in the pool,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: which makes it like we've gotten to that very dangerous
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: part or yeah, she's not going to keep herself contained anymore,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: so that's you know, going to require some hovering. But
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: she's also pretty good in the water, I gotta say,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: And you.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Want that, you know, like you don't want to have
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: a kid who's afraid of the water. You kind of
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: want the fearlessless when they're young and you're watching and
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: then you know, hopefully they learn to not be crazy
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: when they get older, I mean the future, like they're
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: they're a little crazy when they get older.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: I can see it already in her eyes.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: I went to another Noah Khan shows It's Noah Khan's
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: My Music of the Summer with my teenage daughter, this
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: one in Boston. I had to endorse some Yankee suck chance,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: but you know it was at Fenway, so understandable.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: I ran into our friend Ben Ferguson there.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: He was also exhibiting Boston and seeing Noah Khan. No
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: politics at this one, so good time.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Didn't get to see any of the tall ships from
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: a distance, but yeah, they are so impressive.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I saw them in Maryland a few weeks ago when
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I was in Baltimore.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: That was really cool.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I love a tall ship.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like the tall ships all right.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Over the weekend, US Senator Lindsay Graham died and it
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: was unexpected. He was seventy one years old. He was
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: extremely vibrant. He had just returned from Ukraine, and he
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: was scheduled to be on Meet the Press.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: That's that right, Sunday.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was scheduled to be on Meet the Press
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: on Sunday. He was born in nineteen fifty five in
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: South Carolina. He grew up in a everybody's talking about
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: how he grew up in a working class family. His
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: parents owned a pool hall. He was the first member
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: of his family to go to college. And he was
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: just a great guy. If you liked his politics or
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: you didn't. Everybody's talking about how funny he was and
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: how gregarious and just a wonderful person. And it is
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: a loss.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very sad. I was surprised by this because
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: he did seem young on the scale of senators, because
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: he was very vibrant, and I liked that he brought
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: a sort of a jois de vive to being a senator,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: which is a gig, Like you know, it's very high profile,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: but it can be kind of a drag, I think
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: in many ways. And he always seemed to sort of
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: recognize that the work he was doing was serious, but
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: the politics is a bit of a game and he's
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: having fun with it.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: That annoyed some people, but I enjoyed it. And I
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: think his successes and the tributes to him from his
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: colleagues in the Senate, many of them ideological adversaries, is
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: a testament to the power of being likable and practical
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: and having a one line to deploy at any moment,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: which he was quite good at. I saw that Al
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Franklin at one point told him told The New York
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Times that he was the funniest senator, and I think,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: you look, he has competition with Kennedy for sure, but
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Franklin was like, yeah, Lindsay Graham is very funny, and
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: he could he could just every quotable quote from him
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: that people are using is a good one.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Al Frankin said that he told Lindsay Graham that
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: he would vote for him for president, and Graham, without
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: missing a beat, said, that's the problem. Yep, Al Franken's
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: voting for you in the Republican primary.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: No one else is yep. So yeah, it's a loss.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I also think again, he's a guy who believes deeply
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: in what he believed, and he was a guy who
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: had a lot of experience. Frankly, you know how many
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: iterations of Middle East peace talks had Graham witnessed, or
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Ukraine versus Russia conflicts had he witnessed and could bring
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: some of that background information to bear when he was speaking.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I think he was when he was serious, could be
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: a really powerful speaker. And I think one that the
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: causes he backed will miss very much. Yeah.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Jake Wilkins at Axios quoted a person who spoke with
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Graham shortly after seeing the senator when he complained he
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: wasn't feeling well, and the person urged him to seek
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: medical attention immediately.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: Graham said he would do so.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Sunday morning after his scheduled appearance on NBC's Meet the Press.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Do you want to read the.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: Joke that Graham then said, or I'll do it. Graham said,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: I can't die now.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I still need to do the Russi just sanctions, get
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Iran sorted out, and do Israeli saddy normalization. He passed
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: away several hours later.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Even.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one interesting point that people are making about Lindsay
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Graham that he was in politics for over thirty years
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: and he left behind a net worth of just under
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: one point five million. That puts him two hundred and
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: ninety fourth out of the five hundred and thirty five
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: members of Congress, closer to the bottom half than the top.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: This was not a man who was in it for
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: the money, and he could have cashed out, and he
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: could have done a lot of things, and he really
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: was in it for all the different things that he believed,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: and he didn't get paid a lot, and he kind
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: of did what he wanted to do. And he also
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: just didn't care about being popular among the latest thing.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: He wasn't always adjusting to what the cool, latest thing is,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: and he stood alone in a lot of ways because
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: of that.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of the commentary, actually, although
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: not from Senate colleagues, justly mainly from outside observers, is
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: about his arc during the Trump era, because he was
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: very anti and then he became more aligned with Trump.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: But I think a lot of that is his like
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: what is also he had a sense of what was
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: practical right. There's a great anecdote that I've read today
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: some reporting on him, where he confessed that one of
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: the ways he dealt with Trump was not just to
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: flatter him all the time, but to tell him that
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Barack Obama would have done the exact opposite of what
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham is recommending, which is a very smart take
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: on how to influence Donald Trump. I think that he,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: unlike many in the party and many who are now
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: adversaries outside the party, understood is that the voters had
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: made this decision and he would like to stay someone
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: who's influential as opposed to someone who's not and just
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: yelling from the outside and uh. And he did that
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: with you know, all sorts of people. Amy Kloviachar had
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: a really beautiful tribute to him, and one of the
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: things I noted from it is how she said, you know,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: when we were on these trips abroad for national securities.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: How he just like jump off the plane excited looking
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: at her, like, can you believe a kid from South
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Carolina gets to do this? I think having a bit
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: of that sticking around is really important.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: I really love that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I love the whole Wow, I get to be here.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: I think so many people get jaded in Washington and
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: it's disappointing and sad, but you know, it's what you
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: want our leadership to be, like to understand that it's
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: a privilege and honor, and I think he really got that.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: He also would I would recommend to two things because
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: they're a little on the longish side. But his eulogy
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: of Joe Lieberman is just a how to, like a
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: tour de force in a charming, beautiful, self deprecating, and
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: very funny eulogy. He just knocked it out of the
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: park and starts with to me like one of the
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: most beautifully delivered jokes. He said, I just found out
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: today that his middle name was Isidore. He's like his
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: passing really saved him from a lot of ribbing, like
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: he'd just been spared. So he really really a very
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: good speaker, a very likable dude. The other end of
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: the spectrum is the Kavanaugh speech in the Senate, where
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: he just excoriates his fellow senators for doing the thing
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: he wouldn't do, which is try to ruin the nominees
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: of the opposite party, which he wouted for R right,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: so he had some standing to do that excoriating and
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: was very blunt about how disastrous and awful what they
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: had done to Kavanaugh was.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: Yep, that was a good speech.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Just great guy, sad loss. I don't love any of
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: the celebrating around it, but I kind of say it
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: actually seems muted to me, and maybe just because I've
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: blocked every on Twitter already would.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: Easily be it.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: But I even thought like conservatives would be saying maybe
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: not nice things about him, and I've largely seen that.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: There's you know a lot of people have to say
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I didn't always agree with him, like, yeah, okay, I.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: Know I don't always agree with anybody.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: So but other than that, people have been extremely just
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: friendly about it.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: And you know, John.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Fervor, for I forgot he used to.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Do Goldman the Goldman Sachs Elevator Twitter account. Anyway, I
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: just really liked this what he wrote about Linda Graham.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: He's that I often criticized Linda Graham, but this weekend
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I learned his full story. Orphaned young, he adopted and
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: raised his little sister instead of letting her go into
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the system. Grew up dirt poor, racking balls in his parents'
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: pool hall. In search of opportunity, he joined the Air Force,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: served thirty three years, retired to colonel, then spent decades
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: in Congress, earning respect across the aisle. Bast Trump hard
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, then respected the will of the voters
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and grew to be loyal, ally humble, devoted to his constituents,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: driven by patriotism even when misguided, never in it for
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: the money, could have cashed in any time, like most
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: of his colleagues. That Disney trip everyone mocked, just a
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: good uncle taking his beloved nieces. He smiled through and
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: ignored the hate to protect his family. Rip to a
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: self made American original, I just thought that was all
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: very well said.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is really beautiful what he did for his sister.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: He also, I'm glad you mentioned that he was a
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: full bird colonel in the United States Air Force. He
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: really did his part and I think there is talk
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: now of appointing his sister to his seat until that
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: term is finished in January. I do think. I think
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: normally I would be against this kind of thing, but
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: since there's an election coming up anyway, it seems that
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: it honors him to put her in that slot as
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: a placeholder names Darlene, and then to not give anyone
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: a leg up in what is going to be a
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: crash prime I guess of some in South Carolina.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: And we'll get into the politics of that primary and
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: future episodes.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: I've heard, you know, a lot of names.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Nicki Haley was a name that people said right away,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: but I heard her that she said yesterday she's not.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: Interested, So.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: We'll see. Nancy Mace said that she's being pulled in.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Shy to be out, but they're pulling her back in.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: And I just don't think that many people are pulling
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: her back in, But okay, we'll see.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: And actually that tweet is a very good example of
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: why she shouldn't get pulled back in, because if you
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: have the bad enough judgment to be posting that shortly
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: after the death of your former state delegation colleague, that's
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: not good judgment.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, The other story about an elderly senator right now
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: is about Mitch McConnell, who over the weekend released a
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: picture with his wife Lane Chow. He's sitting in a
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: hospital bed in a button down shirt and jeans and
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: holding that day's newspaper, so people know he's alive. The
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: story there, and we talked about it a little bit
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: last week on an episode of Normally, is that he is.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: He has been in pretty bad shape for a while now,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: but he has already announced his retirement. The election is
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: happening in November to replace him. So the conspiracy theories
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: around you know, why somebody would lie about talking to him,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Like Scott Jennings said he spoke to him for twenty minutes,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: and so did several other people. I think John Thune
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: spoke to him. But why these people would lie about it?
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I posted this on X last week, But I don't
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: get the conspiracy theory around it, because the most they
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: can do is avoid a special election. If he's fine
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: by August third, there's no special election. But what's the
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: big deal if there is a special election? Okay, like
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: it gives the Democrat a slight advantage, but it's still Kentucky.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: It's still if you're if we're.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Worried about losing Kentucky, we're worried about a lot more
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: than Kentucky.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: So when Kentucky local political press seems to think that
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: if there were a primary election, all right, excuse me,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: a special election held, that it would not produce different
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: results than the primary election.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Right, And this you know, the we talked about the
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: very online theory that all they're worried about Thomas Massey.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Massey couldn't win his own district and they loved him
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: for many, many years. So I don't get any of
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: the conspiracy theories. I like that Mitch McConnell, in his
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: kind of note said that many people who are older
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: won't admit that they're not doing well and all of that.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I completely get it. There's people comparing him to Biden
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: on x and that I don't get because Biden was
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: planning to run for another term. His term ends here
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: and it's over. Yes, he's not maybe not doing as
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: well as we'd like a senator be doing. I do
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: think that if he can't come back and go back
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: to voting and all of that, that he really should
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: think about stepping down early, but he's in a rehabilitation
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: facility now, physical therapy, and I hope he's back in
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: the Senate soon. And that's it.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can argue he's on the edge. But the
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: analogy with Biden would be if he was running for
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: another six years, right right, that's not acceptable.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: It wouldn't be and he's not doing that.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: And again, it made no sense to me that people
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: like Scott Jennings would you know, risk their reputation to
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: what give him an extra couple of months. It makes
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: just made no sense to me. And Scott Jennings very
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: affably posted you know the meme how the turntables have
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: turned when Mitch McConnell posted his proof of life.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: So also, just as a PSA, I know that Lindsey
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Graham appears to have died of an aortic dissection, which
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I think is the same thing that killed John Ritter
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: very young. They say it's a very silent killer. It
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: can sneak up on you people of a certain age.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Please get checked out in general on a regular basis,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: but particularly and I know it was not deep vein
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: thrombosis that was the problem here, but particularly after long
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: international flights which can take a toll on all of us,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: just much out for warning signs if you're not feeling
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: great after that.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Actually we didn't talk about maybe we'll just touch on
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: it here, but there are obviously a lot of people
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: who think that this could have been Russia or something happened.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: We don't do a lot of entertaining of conspiracy theories
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: here on normally, but we also don't trust the Russians.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: So yes, that's a perfect way of putting it. I
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: will wait for any toxicology reports should they come, because
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I do not discount the russians dastardliness. Yet we will
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: assume for now that a seventy one year old man
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: who died of a sudden heart attack is a fairly
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: normal thing.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: And he had just come back from Ukraine, and he
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: was a defender of Ukraine and he was really taking
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: the lead on that kind of thing in America. So
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: it does make sense that Russians really didn't like him,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: you know whatever. But you know, he was seventy one
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: when he died. His dad at was sixty nine. This
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: isn't a crazy thing that happened. Yes, he did seem
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: very alert and active. But these kinds of things happened,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: and we're going to just take it normally and wait
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: and see Bernie texicology results.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, I will say one last thing I didn't I
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: didn't have like a deep personal relationship with Lindsay Graham,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: but had met him around over the years, and that
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: he was very kind to me before and after I
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: moderated that presidential debate when everyone was you know, there's
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: like nine candidates and I was very nervous and had
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: no idea how I had had done. And he was
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: super kind about it and a nice, warm, friendly, encouraging
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: face to see before and after something that's extremely nerve wracking.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: So I understand why his colleagues would react in the
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: way that they have, both ideological adversaries and allies.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: All Right, We're going to take a short break and
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: be right back.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: With more on Normally.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: We are back on Normally, where Rocanna has been having
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: a rough couple of weeks. He supported main Senator Hopeful
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: grand Platner even after the New York Times article where
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: he was credibly accused of assault, and he stood by
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: him and all of that, and he is running as
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: this leftist populist. I mean, he's not running officially officially yet,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: but as we'll get into in this story, he does
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: refer to himself as a presidential candidate already, but he
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: is running as this far left populist. And the Free
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Beacon had a story about two weeks ago where both
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: of Rocanna's kids are part owner.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: Of golf courses.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: So, you know, not exactly the picture of anti wealthy
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: that he hopes to paint. He used to be sort
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: of a moderate guy, so that that wasn't working for
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: him and now has decided to veer very far left.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: So we have that financial information thanks to the Free Beacon,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: which has decoded his deliberately hidden and plain sight financial disclosures,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: which he put in this bizarre format so nobody can
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: actually read them unless they try really hard. So thanks
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: to them for that right.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: So, he was in what's called the West Bank. He
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: said the purpose of his trip was to see the
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: conditions affecting Palestinians firsthand, and he described the visit as
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: an effort to understand the impact of Israeli policies. During
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: the trip, he says he had an encounter with armed
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Israelis who lived there and they detained them until and
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: called the IDEF, and then the IDEF came and presumably
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: released them, but he released a one and a half
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: minute video showing what happened, and very unclear there what happened.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: He calls the settlers or I hate that term, but
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: the people who live there lawless, which makes no sense
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: because these people literally called in the law. So it
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: made it really, you know, to me, read as somebody
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: who needed to change the headlines on his last couple
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: of weeks, and it reminded me a lot.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: Actually I looked up the line.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: But when Harvey Weinstein first faced accusations of sexual assaults,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: one of the things that he mentioned in his statement
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: was how hard he was going to go after Donald Trump,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: and he said, I'm going to need a place to
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: challenge that anger. So I've decided I'm going to give
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: the NRA my full attention. I hope Wayne Lapierre will
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: enjoy his tonament party. I'm going to do it at
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: the same places I had my var mitzvah. I'm making
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: a movie about our president. Maybe we can make it
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: a joint retirement party. And in the exact same way
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: role Kanna is like, I'm opposed to the president, and
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: I'm opposed to Elon Musk, who is not involved at
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: all here, and he's just talking about these people that
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: he's going to take on, and it really reads to
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: me like somebody trying to change the news cycle.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's Look, he went with Cameron Caski,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: who's a Parkland shooting, post Parkland shooting, anti gun activist
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: who's now become an anti Israel activist and pro Palestinian activists,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: and brought these guys on some trip over there. I
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: think what people who actually know about the area can
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: tell you is that you don't just wander around the
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: West Bank kind of no matter who you are, if
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: you're in a militarily restricted area, partly due to trying
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: to keep you safe, you will occasionally get questioned about
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: what you're doing. And even if you're a congress person,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: whether it's the US and you show up at like
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Quanico on a random day, they're going
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: to be like, we need to see your ID, what
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: are you doing here? What is your business?
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: So I think some of that is at play here.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: And you know what struck me about two things. One
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: he said he'd never been so keenly aware of his
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: race as on this trip yep, and having been to Israel,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I would just say the idea that as a brown
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: person who singled out or different in Israel is actually crazy.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: It is it is not a place where is different
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: or stands out, So that's crazy to me. The other
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: thing is, this is the same reporter that did the
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: first New York Times piece on Grand Platinum with if
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I field my personal friend's accusations in it, And I
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: would just note there aren't eleven paragraphs on Rocanna's switch
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: on Israel and how it might behoove him to have
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: this accusation that he is now levying. So I wonder
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: why she thought it was worthy of eleven paragraphs about
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Lindsay's motivations but like two about Rocanna's right.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: It really like this reporter just seems like the activist
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: of all activists to me. Also the photographer who was
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: along with them, The New York Times photographer is an
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: actual activist against Israel, has tweets calling it the wall
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: that protects Israel, Israeli apartheid wall. Sided with anti Israel
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: activists against Scarlett Johansson during the soda stream controversy. I mean,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: these are not journalists, these are activists like playing a role,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: and it's just again designed to protect people like grand
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Platner and now Rocanna. What else is interesting is that
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: after this happened, several people came out and said that
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Rocanna was basically testing whether he can run as sort
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: of a moderate, and one of the people who's CEO
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: and co founder of light Spark named David Marcus, this
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: is not our friend, David Marcus. A different one said
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: that after the last presidential election, Rocanna reached out. We
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: had a short meeting where he pitched himself as the centrist,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: pro doge, pro elon Democrat. I didn't follow up. He
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: then steered hard left defeat his ambitions. This man blows
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: with the wind.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: I have the receipts.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Bill Lackman then chimed in and said I had the
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: same meeting with him, a total incomplete fake. And then
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: our friend Dave Rubin said same, I have text with
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: him asking if I vote for him over other Democrats.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is just a play, complete play.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: He also had a pro free speech moment that was
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: probably around the time he was reaching out to these guys.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I also want to note that this quote at the end,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: which like I don't know if the New York Times
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: thought it played well or if Rocana thought it played well,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: but free advice to the Israelis. It's not a good
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: idea to detain long shot presidential candidates. Not how you're
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: going to build goodwill with the next American president whoever.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: That is just a very strange, self absorbed way of
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: putting that that somewhat points to the idea that there
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: might have been motivations involved in having created this situation.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: And this is a thing that I fault the press
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: for and I don't like these stunts, like lefties often
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: put themselves in situations where the unavoidable response is for
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: a police force or a military force, like we gotta
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: stop you, and then they're like, oh, no, I have
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: been detained. And it's like, well, okay, yeah, you have
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: been detained because you are bringing about a situation that
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: must be adjudicated.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Right, entertainment happened.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: It was your fault that you are detained, So I mean,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: brent Shire says, the detainment looks brutal, impressive that not
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: as single hair is out of place and his tie
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: is still perfectly secure. Also, he's standing in front of
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: like a I can't I don't even know what to
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: call this the hugest mansion you've ever seen in the
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: West Bank, which of course is portrayed as this impoverished,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: you know, detainment camp for Palestinians, and completely isn't.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: It's just it's all a farce.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: And I hate that there are people who now just
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: are susceptible to hating Israel, that believe this farce. I
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: had to unfollow people this weekend because I'm just like,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: if you're falling for this, I just can't follow anymore.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's again, this is a fault of the press,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: and as you noted, you wish the Israelis would be
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: a little bit more hesitant to let people go gallivanting
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: like they claim. They claim that they're stopped at every turn.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: It's like, in fact, he's just wandering around the West
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Bank with a New York Times photo crew, right right.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I don't think that they should have let him in.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: I think it would have been obvious to me what
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: he was going to try to do. If you ask
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: me what is Rokana going to do in Israel? I
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: would say create some sort of photo opportunity for himself
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: to post online. And I wouldn't have specified there would
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: happen in the West Bank, who knows where it would be,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: but it was clear to me that that's what he
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: would do there, And why do you need that? Also
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: in Israel right now is the influencer Clavacular and that's
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: really dividing up people. Also, a lot of people who
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: are pro Israel wish that he wasn't, let's say, the
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: voice of pro Israel politics right now.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: So you know, but him, I'm not saying don't let
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: him in, Like, sure, let him in.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: He's a tourist, Okay, he's not using this for his
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: political fundraising, where Rokana clearly is.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: No Clovicular is objectionable in a thousand ways. But to
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: have the guy who basically just speaks for as an
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: endorser for hotness to be wandering around Israel and spotting
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: hot people, I think is probably fine. I am interested
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: in the fact that both Cloviculars in Israel and Nick
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Quintes apparently was in a short clip, was conceding that
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: some of the anti Israel sentiment over the past couple
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: of years is maybe from foreign box and campaigns placing
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: that sentiment. It seems like maybe a slight shift going
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: on in that whole world over there. But well, it's
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: probably too much to hope.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: For, Yeah, especially when it still plays the way it
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: does on the left and people like Rokana feel like
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: they have to head into a super far left direction.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not incredibly hopeful, but you know, they're going to
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: be fine. As I always say, Israel will be fine.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: We need to protect America against this onslaught of leftism.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: All right, We're going to take a short break and
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: be right back with.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: More on normally.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: All right, speaking of leftist onslaught. The Smithsonian and a
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: report about it sort of documents some of the issues
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: over the past generation or so with lefty versions of
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Howard zenification of America taking over stories in the Smithsonian
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: in our national museums. It's one hundred and sixty four
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: page report, and it's answering to an executive order restoring
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: truth and sanity to American history. It provides a ton
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: of specific examples. So there is an attempt by the left,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: which is so funny to me because to me, the
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: left is very clear about what they want to make museums,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: particularly America's National Museums, which is a different version of
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: the American story. That's what they want to do. And
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: then a report comes out saying, yeah, there are all
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: these examples of the exceedings, and they're like, we would
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: never talking about when are you talking about?
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Right, So they fully succeeded in turning the Smithsonian into
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: a leftist enterprise. The report is called Saving America Story.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: How ideological capture at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: American History erases our heritage and what they've done. There
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: is stuff like quote unquote reframe the American Founding as
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: primarily oppressive.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Founding fathers are largely absent.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Their visitors say they will not There are no permanent
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: exhibits dedicated to George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, the Second Continental Congress,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: the Mayflower, the Pilgrims, Washington crossing the Delaware. None of
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: that is in the Smithsonian. The two hundred and fiftieth
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: anniversary of the United States is presented critically rather than celebratorily.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: There's you know, planning materials that ask visitors to question
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: traditional origins stories and it's just a real exercise in
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: how much the left has marched through our institutions, taken
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: it over and you know, warned skin basically that saying goes.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: And it's upsetting and disappointing. And I don't know that
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: the Trump administration has long enough to turn this around,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: but it's something that really really matters. And I have
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: to say that the group chat that I first saw
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: the Smithsonian story on, it's a huge group chat, I'm on,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: but they pointed out things like the Museum of African
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: American History. They don't have much information on Supreme Court
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Justice Clarence Thomas, but they have a whole exhibit for
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: somebody who accused him of sexual harassment, Anita Hill, which
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: makes no sense. It makes no sense, and it means
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: that people are leaving these museums having less understanding than
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: when they entered. And I feel like, you know, we
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: talk about the New York Times doing that where they
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: just purposely don't give the information to the people, Well,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: they obscure fact, and this is exactly what these museums
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: are doing. It's just it's a really bad situation. And
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: I hope that the Trump administration has time to make
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: the changes necessary here.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: So the guy who's the head of the Smithsonian. Lonnie
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Bunch is renowned as a museum curator because the American
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: African American Museum's launch was so successful. But the major
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: controversy in that launch was that Thomas was left out
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: of it, as a black Supreme Court justice, who, by
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: the way, was much more widely supported in those less
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: polarized times by black voters than now, if you pulled it,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: I would imagine. But yes, it was problematic at the
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: time as it launched as a as a success story.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: And the problem is that the success story for many
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: museums is to be this way, and they're very frank
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: about it. Everyone who's coming through the credentialing system of
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: ivy leagues is someone of the left, is someone who
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: can only get to these positions by demonstrating their fealty
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: to this philosophy throughout. So how exactly are you gonna
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: sell me that this is not happening at the Smithsonian
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: when you couldn't have populated it with any of the
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: people who might have done something different. It needs an
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: outward force to say, yeah, this is too much. And
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: by the way, I take my kids to a ton
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: of museums. I love it. And the extent to which
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: all of the ones that are sort of normy and
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: certainly government run or left the enterprises is pretty shocking.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Like the volume is large, and then you'll find it
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: so refreshing to go to like a privately run organization
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: that's just slightly less lefty. You're like, oh, nice, I
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: feel like I feel like I'm not being indoctrinated at
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: every step here. This is so pleasant.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bad situation there. What are some of
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: the other points in this report are? Is Christianity is
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: portrayed negatively, European settlement is portrayed as motivated by Christian
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: religious fervor. Capitalism is obviously bad. Exhibits focus more on
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: labor exploitation and equality and industrial pollution than on innovation.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: And American growth.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: And we just had this summer where all these Europeans
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: came here and saw our amazing country and to hear
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: this kind of thing is it's just not what America
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: is about.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: And you're lying.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: To the people who come to visit your museum, and
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: you know that needs to be stopped.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: I also dispute, as somebody who grew up in public
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: schools in the eighties and nineties and took in cultural
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: influences of the time that we didn't deal with any
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: of our dark moments before this time, right, that's actually
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: not an accurate portrayal of what we used to learn.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: And I think I mentioned this before. I watched the
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: musical seventeen seventy six, which was put on at the
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Ford Theater in celebration of America's two fiftieth That was
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: written in the early sixties, and it has a huge
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: number in the middle of the play that is awful
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and wrenching and indicting of the United States of America
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: and its founding about slavery, the Southern delegates to the
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Continental Congress not wanting to compromise on this issue. We
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: were indicted for it in that play at that time.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: So I think liberals and progressives once again have to
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: deny that any progress has been made, and in fact,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: did talk about those things before now, and we would
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: just like some balance in how we do it.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I grew up having heard about how slavery was a
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: stain on the founding of our country, but that that
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: founding was still magnificent and incredible, and just what it
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: produced is so unusual in one of a kind that
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: it should be celebrated. And yeah, of course you can
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: note that we did bad things. Bad things happened, but
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: the overall picture is so positive and we're so lucky.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: It's just the way it needs to be taught.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Guy Benson puts it very succinctly that the way that
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: liberals understand it or progressives understand it is that our
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: faults are somehow specific to us, and the things that
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: make us great shared by everyone. When it's exactly the opposite.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: The things that make us great and exceptional are truly exceptional,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: and at the time were incredibly exceptional. Our faults were
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: shared by everyone. Yeah on the planet, right, they're not
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: special to us.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, still the greatest country. Ever.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I'm still two fifteen this whole year, so I'm going
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: to get a lot of this.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: in touch with us at normallythepod.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: At gmail dot com. Thanks for listening, and when things
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: get weird, act normally