Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Tops and Bottoms Tens - Dylan Tops the New Series

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Tops and Bottoms Tens - Dylan Tops the New Series · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  Do you know I've been waiting to both top and bottom, Mr. Dylan
• 0:28
  Reece for a very, very long time?
• 0:32
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt pen knife.
• 0:34
  The non Doctor Who commentary podcast Know we're tops and
• 0:38
  bottoms today. Dylan, are you excited?
• 0:41
  Yes, I've all I've always been very versatile.
• 0:44
  Oh, is that right? Oh great, I've learned so much
• 0:47
  about people on this. Honestly, Joe's, Joe's answers
• 0:50
  to that question was unbelievable.
• 0:54
  Dylan, where would you like to start with this great venture?
• 0:57
  Actually, no. I'm going to ask you a question
• 0:59
  first. First, I want to very quickly
• 1:00
  ask you, how on earth did you assemble your lists for this?
• 1:06
  I literally went through a list of every Doctor Who story and
• 1:11
  Paul like there was the ones I knew were going to be higher or
• 1:15
  lower in in things, but I I had to literally check every title
• 1:19
  and I kind of went for the ones that made me.
• 1:22
  They're not the best or the worst.
• 1:25
  They're the ones that I think are the best that like some of
• 1:28
  them on my best list, People be like, what?
• 1:31
  But they make me feel a certain way.
• 1:32
  So I was like, I'm going to do, I'm going to pick these, these,
• 1:36
  these are this is it's my list and I'll do what I damn please.
• 1:40
  What I would say is the classic lists were harder than the new
• 1:44
  series ones. Oh really?
• 1:46
  What, just because you don't like any of it?
• 1:48
  No, because I, I've seen it all so much that I kind of love it
• 1:52
  all, you know, So I had a huge top and and the and the bottom
• 2:00
  was a lot harder. But isn't that always the way?
• 2:02
  No, I think you'll find it the reverse.
• 2:06
  You know, I thought you were going to start singing Bloody
• 2:08
  Barrowman. Then it's my list and I want to
• 2:11
  have a little pride in. All right, well, look, where
• 2:14
  would you like to start? You tell me, do you want to
• 2:17
  start sort of positive or negative?
• 2:19
  Let's start positive with the classic series.
• 2:26
  Best Classic 10. It's the keys of Marinus.
• 2:30
  Of course, you fucking lunatic. Well, please tell me why.
• 2:37
  Because I bloody love it. It's it's the first Hartnell
• 2:41
  story where that team properly clicks for me.
• 2:44
  They're learning their roles, they're learning themselves.
• 2:46
  The characters are developing for the first few stories, and
• 2:48
  while I like the stories that precede it, this is the one
• 2:52
  where the show becomes that silly old adventure show.
• 2:56
  And it's also because of the way it's serialized in a different
• 3:00
  location every week. You can just sort of pop into it
• 3:03
  and and pick it up. And I like it.
• 3:06
  It's that 1960s thing that the show wouldn't necessarily do so
• 3:10
  much later of. Should we do this?
• 3:13
  Yeah, sure. Why not?
• 3:14
  Let let's just do this big expansive alien world on a on a
• 3:18
  tiny little BBC budget. You like a quest story, then Do
• 3:21
  you like a sort of a little mission?
• 3:23
  In a store quest, yeah, yeah. I mean, I wouldn't want it like
• 3:26
  that every week, but it's one of the most basic things the show
• 3:29
  can do. But it's fun because, you know,
• 3:31
  it's a show of all of time and space and I know this is only on
• 3:34
  one planet, but you get sort of the width and breadth of the
• 3:36
  Society of it. So I.
• 3:37
  Like for once, right? For once, it's not small planet
• 3:41
  syndrome. We get to see all of these
• 3:42
  different vistas on one planet. Yeah, exactly.
• 3:46
  Even if it we, it might just be 1 island, I don't know.
• 3:49
  Is it 1 island? It doesn't.
• 3:51
  I hope not with snows and deserts and forest, might you
• 3:55
  Canada, right? Yeah, yeah, possibly.
• 3:57
  Yeah, It's basically Canada, the keys of Canada.
• 4:00
  Oh, that, I mean, that is a rather heavenly choice and
• 4:04
  unusual and gives me a small indication of what's coming up
• 4:09
  in your mad list. Oh, don't get me wrong, there's
• 4:11
  some things that are topped last polls in here as well.
• 4:13
  But you know this, this is this is the stuff that makes me feel
• 4:17
  good. You know what sad is the
• 4:19
  Obviously the Mariners format is then duplicated in the chase of
• 4:24
  the Dice Master plan, right? These sort of like mad
• 4:26
  knockabout. We're going everywhere in one
• 4:29
  story and then they just drop it.
• 4:31
  Well, they drop it until maybe keys time and then you get a bit
• 4:36
  of it in trial of a time and then flux I'd say and that's it.
• 4:39
  Yeah, yeah. It's it's a shame, but like,
• 4:43
  like you can't do it too often, but it's always been quite
• 4:46
  successful when they've done it, so I'm not sure why there isn't
• 4:50
  more. Of you love all those stories as
• 4:52
  well, don't you? My God, they just.
• 4:53
  You just do quests every year. You'd be very happy.
• 4:55
  If RTD Two had done it twice, you'd have been over the moon.
• 4:59
  My top ten are just be full of those.
• 5:02
  Oh please, I know what your bottom 10 is going to be full
• 5:04
  of. Well, we'll see.
• 5:06
  All right, Well that's a, that is a a high bar for some to
• 5:10
  start with. What about #9 Best Classic 9?
• 5:19
  Well, it's the mysterious planet.
• 5:23
  The next quest, OK. I was tempted to put the whole
• 5:28
  of trial here, but I thought, no, just pick one.
• 5:31
  And what I love about this is it's Bob Holmes.
• 5:35
  Bob Holmes is great, but I I like some of the lesser love Bob
• 5:41
  stories where they're not the instant classic and the stories
• 5:45
  just get to do their own thing and I love the world it creates
• 5:48
  here. I know it's a little bit silly,
• 5:50
  but I think it all, all the all the mechanisms work and most
• 5:54
  importantly, it's Colin and Nicola at their best.
• 5:57
  And I just love that relationship and I love Colin's
• 6:00
  Doctor, but I wish, you know, the the relationship he has with
• 6:04
  Mel is great. And the Nicola and Colin are
• 6:07
  trying to pull something out those scripts the previous
• 6:10
  season to make that relationship work.
• 6:13
  But the mysterious planet, I could watch it again and again
• 6:16
  because it's those two getting on.
• 6:18
  It's glitz and Dipper. It's the setup of the trial, the
• 6:21
  underground society, the, you know, the, the the Freeman, Joan
• 6:26
  Sims. I mean, it's it's ridiculous.
• 6:29
  It's sort of peak JNT in a way. I think it looks pretty good.
• 6:32
  OK, Jack throws a bit wobbly, but I think All in all looks.
• 6:35
  And obviously we've got the, the famous model shot, but they they
• 6:37
  get their money out of that, out of the, the 14 episodes.
• 6:41
  You imagine French and Saunders in this one.
• 6:44
  Quite possible. Because they he did want them,
• 6:46
  didn't he? For glitz and dibber.
• 6:48
  I mean just the idea of that. I mean, it would have, I mean,
• 6:52
  it would have been brilliant, I'm sure, but I don't know Tony
• 6:55
  Selby and whatever the other guys.
• 6:57
  Called God the Hot one from London's burning Yeah.
• 7:01
  Well, there you go. But I I love this story and I
• 7:04
  wish there was a whole season of those two just like that.
• 7:08
  There is. That is the template for the Big
• 7:10
  finish, Colin and Nicola, right? Absolutely, yeah.
• 7:13
  Absolutely. Well, I'd say one season,
• 7:14
  there's about 15 seasons. But but like of all of that run,
• 7:18
  that is the chemistry that they go for in the audios, isn't it?
• 7:22
  Because that's where they're at their peak.
• 7:23
  Because. They get it right, and it's a
• 7:26
  story so good that the new series emulated it in the
• 7:29
  classic Orphan 55. Of course it did.
• 7:32
  Yes, of course. Well, do you know, I would have
• 7:34
  thought you would have gone for mind warping that season.
• 7:37
  After the commentary. We did.
• 7:38
  No, I like mind Warp, but it's not.
• 7:41
  It's not. You've got to be in a particular
• 7:43
  mood for it, I think. And I think, as we said on that,
• 7:45
  every time I watch Mind Walk, I've got a different feeling
• 7:47
  about it. It's a bit dirty, you know, and
• 7:50
  that's for Colin trying to murder Nicola on a regular
• 7:52
  occasion, isn't it? Yeah, we're back to square 1.
• 7:54
  There, aren't we? She's got to go.
• 7:57
  Mysterious planet. OK, well, I've got to be honest,
• 8:00
  I wouldn't have seen that coming in a million years.
• 8:02
  So. Just you wait for the next one.
• 8:04
  Oh fuck. Well, Gordon, what's your #8
• 8:12
  best classic? 8 Why, of course, it's Nightmare
• 8:16
  of Eden. Oh I get this, but I want to
• 8:19
  know why. I mean it's ridiculous.
• 8:23
  It's not a good production. It's a great script.
• 8:25
  It's but it's a hammy, hammy old cheap production.
• 8:30
  But there is something about it. I first saw it as in like tape
• 8:35
  trading scenario. So I got a ropy version of it
• 8:38
  and I hate seeing it cleaned up like the colour used to flash
• 8:41
  intermittently on mine and that. Clean up, but that'd make it
• 8:44
  less ropy. No, I know, but I like the
• 8:48
  intermittent flashing of the colour and things like that.
• 8:50
  These type of mine. And it was on a double pad.
• 8:53
  Yeah, it was on a double bill with the Horns of Nimon, which
• 8:56
  only just didn't make the list. But as a wank tape that is
• 9:01
  pretty great isn't? It, but it was one that I saw, I
• 9:06
  would say it was one of the last one, the later or one of the
• 9:10
  last Tom Baker ones I saw. And you know, season 17 was a
• 9:14
  bit unknown. And I think I, I was, it was my
• 9:17
  late, late teens. And I think I just got to that
• 9:20
  point where when I was 15, I wanted doctor to take Doctor Who
• 9:23
  seriously. And then by the time I was sort
• 9:26
  of 1819, I was able to sort of laugh at it and go, oh, actually
• 9:30
  it's a silly, ropey old show. So it's sort of made me stop
• 9:34
  worrying and learn to love and go, oh, this could be the Doctor
• 9:38
  Who can be all things, including this camp.
• 9:41
  Weird, hammy, a bit shit show. It takes most of us to like 30
• 9:47
  to reach the conclusion that Doctor Who's a bit of tat and
• 9:49
  just go. You got there pretty quick.
• 9:52
  Well, yeah, I mean, don't work really.
• 9:54
  There are ups and downs within that.
• 9:55
  But it just, I love it and I love Tom and Lalla in it.
• 9:59
  I think they're brilliant. It's always interfere.
• 10:02
  Do what you do best, yes. They're just sort of at the top
• 10:07
  of their game as the two doctors at this point.
• 10:09
  You know, they're at least two Time Lords.
• 10:11
  And, you know, fans talk about, oh, well, what would a female
• 10:15
  doctor look like back then? And it's like it was Romana too,
• 10:19
  really. Like they're they're the same,
• 10:21
  the same, but different. She was, wasn't she?
• 10:24
  Yeah. She Outlook by by Neiman.
• 10:25
  Jesus Christ. He's just pissing about and
• 10:27
  she's taking over. I know you.
• 10:30
  You like a bit of controversy, don't you?
• 10:31
  You love sort of cocaine exploding hits in the New
• 10:34
  Adventures. It's all that racks, Owen,
• 10:36
  that's going about the place. Isn't it?
• 10:37
  There'll be plenty of that at my wedding.
• 10:39
  Oh really? I think it's called Zip these
• 10:41
  days. You know, it is creative though,
• 10:45
  isn't it? Like the I think it takes the
• 10:47
  ideas from Carnival of Monsters and it it's a more freewheeling
• 10:51
  version of that. I mean, just bonkers.
• 10:53
  The fact that the fucking the monsters are the drug once it's
• 10:58
  executed. Is there a more Doctor Who idea
• 11:01
  than that? It's brilliant and the whole
• 11:03
  thing of like, we can pick up a bit of a planet and record it
• 11:06
  and take it with us. There's some big ideas there,
• 11:09
  and it's something you wouldn't have to do too much to apart
• 11:13
  from condense the running time to turn it into a new series
• 11:16
  story that was actually really, really good.
• 11:19
  Don't you think the starting point for most classic Doctor
• 11:22
  Who stories should have been the opposite of what Philip
• 11:24
  Hinchcliffe did? Can we not do this right?
• 11:27
  Put it in the script, you know, we'll try and find a way.
• 11:31
  But those are the ones that are the most satisfying, right?
• 11:32
  A nightmare read me. It's definitely that they can't
• 11:34
  really do it and they fucking have that dial going around.
• 11:38
  We see all those space 1999 planets anyway.
• 11:42
  Oh, what a great. I want to watch it right now.
• 11:45
  You haven't even picked one choice yet, which I would say
• 11:48
  belongs genuinely in the top ten list.
• 11:50
  What's your #7 Best classic 7? The macro terror.
• 12:01
  Oh, OK. That was on Joe's list.
• 12:03
  That's two for my spreadsheet. OK.
• 12:06
  It's a story I know well from its tape release.
• 12:10
  And I as a kid, it was that thing of you get these audio
• 12:15
  tapes and the big hitters are the two Dalek stories,
• 12:19
  obviously. And then the macro terror I knew
• 12:21
  nothing about. And I remember lying on like
• 12:25
  we're lying in bed in a dark room on holiday.
• 12:28
  Like we're, I think we're at Eastbourne, Joe.
• 12:31
  I think we're at Eastbourne and just listening to it and being
• 12:37
  wowed by it. And because you've only got
• 12:38
  these three tapes with you, you listen to them over and over
• 12:41
  again. And to this day I still put it
• 12:44
  on once a year, be it the animation or the audio or the,
• 12:48
  or the audio from the tape. And I just love the.
• 12:51
  Colored narration 1. You know, yeah, the crap like
• 12:54
  creature was hideous, that one. Yeah, exactly.
• 12:58
  And I just think it's a brilliant story.
• 13:00
  Like I I suspect if it was found, it would look a bit
• 13:03
  shabby around the edges. I'm mainly talking about them
• 13:05
  on, but even when you see pictures of the sets they look
• 13:08
  very claustrophobic. And I don't necessarily mean in
• 13:11
  like a good way, but if I've got a Nightmare of Eden in there, I
• 13:15
  could. Say, did you see 10-9 and eight
• 13:18
  in this list? Shabby is not an issue for you,
• 13:21
  is it? And so and I but I just think
• 13:25
  the atmosphere, if it's great, I think the music, if it's great,
• 13:27
  I think the setting's great. I think the the regulars are on
• 13:31
  fire. I think this is might be Polly's
• 13:33
  best story. Maybe this or the smugglers.
• 13:36
  It's a. Good one for Ben as well, isn't
• 13:38
  it? Or at least Michael Cray is when
• 13:40
  he goes, you know, a very aggressive and and bad.
• 13:44
  Yeah. Oh, the music man.
• 13:45
  Come on. Oh, and you read that line.
• 13:50
  Well, this is gay, the man says. Do you like the idea of like the
• 13:57
  sort of the holiday camp vibe but with something sinister
• 14:01
  happening underneath it? Absolutely.
• 14:04
  It never fails. You know exactly what's
• 14:06
  happening at Disneyland, a place like that, you know?
• 14:09
  It works here. It works in Delta and the Banner
• 14:12
  Man. It works in Orphan 55.
• 14:14
  All of them. Classic second mention of Orphan
• 14:15
  50. 5 here. My God.
• 14:17
  Yeah, maybe not the last. Well, Macrotera, OK, I think
• 14:21
  that is going to be a popular choice.
• 14:23
  Let's move on to #6 Best Classic 6.
• 14:33
  I've gone for talents of Wenchuan.
• 14:35
  Oh gosh, I've been the poster child for racism.
• 14:39
  Go on. Look, it has some things that
• 14:44
  make me uncomfortable, although I didn't realise that when I was
• 14:46
  9 and watching the VHS. It was only when I came back,
• 14:50
  when it came out on DVD, I was like, is that and not Chinese?
• 14:56
  We're not very discerning children, are we?
• 14:58
  No, absolutely. It's glorious.
• 15:02
  I mean, the location work, the studio work, the characters,
• 15:06
  this, the Victorian setting, like everything that's been said
• 15:09
  about has been said a billion times.
• 15:11
  But there's a reason it came close to the top of the polls.
• 15:13
  It's one I saw very early on in my fandom, like certainly within
• 15:17
  the first sort of 10 stories I saw.
• 15:19
  And I watched it again and again.
• 15:20
  My dad loved that, this one. And he, you know, even to this
• 15:24
  day, he can quote you bits of it.
• 15:26
  And it's just, there's a reason why it stuck in his mind from
• 15:30
  his childhood and from mine. And again, like it's just
• 15:34
  glorious. And Tom and I don't know whether
• 15:37
  there's a better Doctor companions.
• 15:39
  Don't read most than in that one.
• 15:41
  Yeah, I don't think so, however. Like they're just, they're
• 15:44
  perfect together in it. And I know they weren't exactly
• 15:47
  bezies behind the scenes. And obviously we know now that,
• 15:50
  you know, they blew the budget on it because it was it was
• 15:53
  Hinchcliff's last story, but. It is beautiful, isn't it?
• 15:56
  Yeah. Like the two big stories that
• 15:59
  blew the budget, I think are Talons and Remembrance of the
• 16:02
  Daleks. Those are the two we know that
• 16:04
  were massively overspent on. And those two are the glimpses
• 16:07
  into what Doctor Who could have been like had we had maybe half
• 16:12
  that budget again, you know? Absolutely, but it just works.
• 16:16
  And of course, Jago and Lightfoot, I mean, maybe they
• 16:18
  didn't quite need 14 series of spin off, but you know, even
• 16:23
  those will work like they're just homes in double act again
• 16:28
  that just really work. And really just, I mean, I'm
• 16:31
  just in awe of this. Can you not suggest, please,
• 16:34
  that maybe they shouldn't big finish within a shot of my
• 16:36
  overall place, All right? If they weren't dead, they'd
• 16:41
  still be doing it. Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:44
  That look. What do you mean?
• 16:45
  When they were dead, they were still doing it.
• 16:47
  They just cut together loads of Trevor backs together.
• 16:50
  I didn't listen to that one. I was like, I'm not sure I feel
• 16:52
  comfortable with this. I love the fact that you know
• 16:55
  you've put probably the most beautiful Tom Baker and the
• 16:58
  tattiest Tom Baker both on your top tenders.
• 17:02
  It means you're sort of determining quality via the
• 17:05
  imagination, the characterization, rather than
• 17:07
  the production value. Yeah, it's that and the feeling
• 17:10
  it gives me. Like everything on this list is
• 17:13
  things that I will watch again and they all listen to again and
• 17:17
  again and again. It's not like it's not all the
• 17:20
  list of the critically the best Doctor Who stories or the ones
• 17:25
  I'd show a non fan to try and get them into it.
• 17:27
  It's like this, this is my top ten and I'm bloody sticking to.
• 17:31
  It it's reading a bit like one of those pop ups in the Doctor
• 17:34
  Who's letter page. I mean, when they did the top
• 17:35
  10s in DWMI, like to read those this going.
• 17:38
  What is this person on? Like Jesus Christ, someone put
• 17:42
  the mutants in there. I mean, come on.
• 17:44
  Oh, God. You're not going to, are you?
• 17:46
  Well, let's find out. What's your next choice?
• 17:49
  Where are we at? That was 6.
• 17:51
  This is five. Yeah, best classic 5.
• 17:59
  It's Power of the Daleks. Oh yes.
• 18:03
  Because I mean it's just glorious isn't it?
• 18:06
  Right. Again, I'm taken to holidays in
• 18:09
  Eastbourne and Gran Canaria where I took, took away my 3 or
• 18:14
  4 little tapes and my Walkman and you know, it was these and
• 18:18
  the ghosts about in space, but I couldn't include that.
• 18:21
  Would you have? No, no, I wouldn't.
• 18:25
  I think if I was doing this list for spin offs it'd probably be
• 18:29
  in there, but probably. Glorious, isn't it?
• 18:34
  But I mean trout and hits the ground running.
• 18:37
  He's not quite the character he becomes, but like his
• 18:41
  performance in that is so bizarre, especially at the start
• 18:44
  where he's refusing to sort of claim he's the doctor.
• 18:47
  It's the Daleks that they're most menacing.
• 18:50
  David Whitaker just does brilliant things with the Daleks
• 18:54
  and production design wise from all the pictures and telesnaps,
• 18:57
  it looks amazing. The whole inter world of the
• 19:01
  colony and the sort of the into fighting and like the political
• 19:05
  structure there is amazing. And I just I just like somebody
• 19:10
  finds some of it somewhere. I know the chances of of it are
• 19:13
  slim, but my God it just sounds glorious.
• 19:17
  It is one of the better animations I think, especially
• 19:20
  the second one they did. The Daleks are so fluid in that
• 19:23
  second animation. I believe a lot of that's down
• 19:26
  to Rob Ritchie. He doesn't work on them anymore.
• 19:28
  Which. Is Rob Ritchie we salute you,
• 19:29
  Sir. I mean, I'm I'm watching at the
• 19:31
  moment. You know, I did strictly Trout
• 19:33
  and recently and I thought, oh God, I want to watch all the
• 19:35
  trout and era again. So I'm up episode 5 where then
• 19:39
  with the production line scene fucking.
• 19:41
  That's great, isn't it? Yeah, Now you want to see those
• 19:44
  mutants being shoved into holes like that are too.
• 19:50
  I think that'll be a popular choice as well going on, yeah.
• 19:54
  No, I think you're right. I'm a bit more the next viewer,
• 19:56
  a bit more basic bitch. Yeah, yeah, you are being a bit
• 19:59
  of a basic bitch now. Well come on then, give me your
• 20:01
  #4 continue to be basic Best classic 4.
• 20:10
  Well, I'm sticking with some Daleks and I'm going remembrance
• 20:13
  of the. I could have predicted this one,
• 20:16
  but go on, tell me why. And again, like I'm a child of
• 20:20
  the McCoy era, as the rest of this list will probably attest.
• 20:24
  But it's like at the fag end of Doctor Who when everybody says
• 20:31
  it's shit that happens. And I can only imagine the
• 20:35
  excitement, whether you were 8 or 18 at the time, of all of a
• 20:39
  sudden the show being this good again.
• 20:42
  And I love season 24. I love season. 20 you'd have
• 20:44
  dragon fire, right? You like the one before this?
• 20:46
  Yeah, exactly that. That was on the.
• 20:48
  That was in the top 20, but it didn't make the top 10.
• 20:52
  And spat out my coffee. And especially this thing of,
• 20:57
  you know, getting into the show with the last season and then
• 21:01
  finding out about the Daleks and then waiting for this to to see
• 21:04
  this Dalek story. Eventually when it came in the
• 21:07
  beautiful tin that it did. And it just didn't disappoint.
• 21:11
  Like the Daleks look great. There's a bloody spaceship that
• 21:15
  lands in a playground. McCoy and Aldred, they hit the
• 21:20
  ground running together. They're brilliant in it.
• 21:22
  I. Can't even deny it on this
• 21:23
  occasion. And it's just so exciting and
• 21:29
  all the characters in it are brilliant.
• 21:31
  You know, there's a reason Big Finnish chose to do
• 21:33
  Countermeasures and not the Ice World Chronicles.
• 21:39
  Well, you never say never A and it looks glorious, like it's
• 21:44
  beautifully directed. I like Revelation but and
• 21:49
  resurrection a lot, but the Daleks feel kind of underused in
• 21:53
  both, especially in Revelation. In Resurrection, they're a bit
• 21:56
  more generic and actually the more interesting stuff is clones
• 22:00
  and like what's going on back on Earth and and obviously Davros.
• 22:05
  But here we get Davros and he looks amazing, but also like the
• 22:10
  Daleks are back to their sort of scheming cells and they're
• 22:13
  they're fighting each other. And you're throwing in all this
• 22:16
  law for the Cartmel master Plan and it's just, I mean, it's.
• 22:20
  Enticing, isn't it, when it hits because we just hadn't done that
• 22:23
  sort of obscure mythology. Yeah.
• 22:26
  Ages. Not since maybe Hartnell's time,
• 22:28
  you know? Yeah, I mean, it's war games
• 22:31
  really, isn't it? And then smatterings of it in
• 22:34
  the Trout and era, Sorry in the Pertwee era, but Tom Bakery was
• 22:38
  kind of law free almost. They're so evil with the Daleks
• 22:42
  in this they enslave the imagination of a sweet little
• 22:45
  girl and then turn her evil when she goes around to attack an 8
• 22:49
  with her electric fingers. Oh, it's just great.
• 22:51
  And what a great twist, because you're going, Oh, well, that's
• 22:53
  Davros, obviously a little girl. I actually think Revelation and
• 22:57
  Remembrance, they really complement each other work
• 22:59
  because in one it's all Davros, little Daleks, and the other
• 23:03
  it's all Daleks, little Davros, you know?
• 23:05
  And there's space for both of those stories.
• 23:07
  Absolutely, yeah. But I there's something about
• 23:11
  just everything works in this. I wouldn't change a single thing
• 23:15
  and. And the book Dylan Oh.
• 23:18
  I've never read the. Book Oh, get to it, man.
• 23:21
  It genuinely has scenes from Dalek's points of view in the
• 23:24
  second-half when they're having the battle that will just blow
• 23:27
  your mind, he said. It's a bit of a genius,
• 23:29
  Benaronovitch. Absolutely.
• 23:31
  And that. Knows what happened with
• 23:32
  transit, but you know, he's a genius.
• 23:34
  I don't know why he's not been invited back like.
• 23:37
  No, I know. Well, you don't need them now,
• 23:40
  does he? He's a best selling orphan.
• 23:43
  OK, Remember us all right there. Yeah, you've been basic for a
• 23:47
  little while now. Come on now.
• 23:48
  Top three Best Classic 3. The curse of Fenrick.
• 24:00
  It's a childhood favorite. It's one of my most watched.
• 24:03
  I saw this on transmission. I couldn't watch the last
• 24:06
  episode because it was too terrifying.
• 24:09
  Our murder in that last episode, isn't it?
• 24:11
  It was the hem of oars I found terrifying.
• 24:14
  I remember seeing a bit of it through the crack in the door.
• 24:17
  It's a cliche, but I was my mom had obviously gone well.
• 24:21
  I'm going to continue watching this because it's that good.
• 24:25
  And I waited for it to come out on VHS and it was quite an early
• 24:29
  VHS. It was only a couple of years
• 24:30
  later and it was on again and again and again in my house.
• 24:34
  My sister and my other brother, who isn't a Doctor Who fan,
• 24:39
  could quote you reams of this as well.
• 24:41
  It's just something that's been in our family for years and
• 24:44
  years. It's the race Family Doctor Who
• 24:47
  story, yeah. When they launched the universe
• 24:50
  on iPlayer, my sister, who is not one to tune into some Doctor
• 24:54
  Who did watch Cursor Fenrick. She was like, is Cursor Fenrick
• 24:58
  on there? I was like, yeah.
• 24:59
  And she was like, I'm, I'm in. And I even friends of the family
• 25:04
  couldn't turn around and go. You've got to come into the
• 25:06
  water with us. I'm not love.
• 25:10
  Evil slappers, don't you? I have been known to now, I'm
• 25:14
  not saying it's perfect and you know there are certain scenes in
• 25:17
  it which as an adult make me cringe slightly faster.
• 25:21
  Can't imagine anyone suggesting such a thing.
• 25:25
  But again, you're the from remembrance through to this, the
• 25:29
  series is building this myth awesome, this back story.
• 25:32
  And McCoy is brilliant. And the what what he puts Ace
• 25:35
  through is both traumatic and unlike everything we've seen.
• 25:38
  It's fantastic. Yeah, it works with Ace.
• 25:41
  It that work with Victoria because she had you equipped to
• 25:43
  deal with it. But it works with Ace because
• 25:45
  she's a a tough urban kid, right?
• 25:47
  Like she can, she can handle it. She's a tough nut.
• 25:50
  How old was you when he was all going out?
• 25:51
  Remembrance cus Fenrick. So I I started with Battlefield
• 25:56
  in 89, I would have been like 7, something like that.
• 25:59
  Oh my God what a time to be alive.
• 26:01
  That year must have been amazing for you that.
• 26:03
  Was the greatest year of my life.
• 26:05
  It's never been topped. Ohh.
• 26:07
  Dear, you get married this year, aren't you?
• 26:10
  Not not been topped yet. Oh yeah, OK, yeah, you know, I
• 26:15
  won't make the obvious joke there.
• 26:17
  OK, Cursor Fenrick, is this all going to be McCoy now as we head
• 26:22
  to #1 what's your #2 best classic 2?
• 26:30
  Again, I'm going basic pitch, but it's Inferno.
• 26:34
  OK. OK.
• 26:36
  Not too long for you. Not too long, it should be.
• 26:39
  But then I love all of Season 7 and it's weird.
• 26:44
  It's the only time that I think 7 parter.
• 26:46
  But even though they're repetitive and there's a lot of
• 26:49
  running around and people getting captured, somehow the
• 26:52
  seven parters work for me there. And I love that a lot of the Big
• 26:55
  Finish the Doctor stories go for that 7 parter and emulate the
• 27:01
  same format. But it works because they do it
• 27:03
  so well. I mean, this was I probably saw
• 27:07
  this about 94 something like that on a on a chunky double
• 27:10
  video and it it was an alluring cover, but I'd read the target
• 27:15
  before that and I remember thinking it was brilliant and
• 27:19
  I'd seen episode 7 on the per wee ears.
• 27:22
  So it was one of those, one of those ones that like I picked up
• 27:26
  bits of it and it was just like, it seems so gritty.
• 27:30
  And I know it's a bunch of people in green face paint and
• 27:33
  looks a bit silly, but I think it's a testament to the
• 27:37
  regulars. How dark.
• 27:38
  Isn't it? It is a dark story.
• 27:41
  How they sell that fascist state and how they sell the end of the
• 27:44
  world and it. Like Nicholas, Courtney is not
• 27:48
  the world's greatest actor, but his the desperation as the
• 27:51
  brigade leader at the end, sort of 6 and well, 5 and 6 is really
• 27:56
  palpable and he does a really great job.
• 27:58
  John Levine isn't the world's best actor.
• 28:01
  There's an understatement. But his turn as the fascist
• 28:04
  Benson, the really violent. He's a vicious cum.
• 28:08
  He's really scary. He is, he is.
• 28:11
  And like, I think they're all having a great time, but they're
• 28:14
  they're not sending it up despite, you know, turned around
• 28:17
  and they were all wearing eye patches.
• 28:20
  And I think Pertwee's great. I mean, my favorite Pertwee
• 28:24
  season is season 7 that I'm I really don't get up.
• 28:27
  I don't like Joe Grant. I don't like when unit goes a
• 28:30
  bit softer to be honest, although I like season 11
• 28:33
  there's but that, that bit in the middle with Joe, I can't
• 28:36
  really abide by it. Oddly, colony in space no Are
• 28:40
  there Why? Why?
• 28:42
  Yeah, true. But I wonder, I do think though,
• 28:46
  have the show stayed like this, it probably wouldn't have had
• 28:49
  the longevity. So.
• 28:50
  Yeah, I'm. I'm willing to sort of go forego
• 28:53
  it and. Sort of the numbers show that
• 28:55
  don't like tailing off in seven and then by the end of eight
• 28:58
  they're up in the stratosphere again.
• 29:00
  I remember watching Inferno right one and two and what are
• 29:03
  the that's about just hanging out in this boring base and then
• 29:07
  you go to the alternative universe and it just all kicks
• 29:09
  off from there. Then that Cliff angle with the
• 29:11
  countdown. It's just so great.
• 29:14
  I would. Have liked to have seen more
• 29:16
  done how to Doctor Who. I think Wand of Evil's pretty
• 29:20
  good and I've seen like some of the things he's written for
• 29:24
  Hammer and stuff like that and he's a really good writer.
• 29:26
  I don't know why they didn't continue using him, but I want
• 29:29
  more. Do you get a slight frisson now
• 29:31
  when you make toast and jam? You know, after that jam comes
• 29:35
  rolling down the hill at the end of episode 6 and destroys the
• 29:38
  entire alternative world? Molten jam.
• 29:41
  All right, that is going to cause some damage.
• 29:44
  And also my favorite, one of my favorite on screen romances,
• 29:47
  Greg and Petra. Oh, Greg, I'm frightened.
• 29:53
  OK, well, OK, that is a very popular story.
• 29:56
  Again, I'm wondering if you're going to top Joe Mclaughlin's
• 30:00
  Power of Crow for your number one classic Doctor Who story of
• 30:05
  all time. Best classic one of.
• 30:15
  Course it's power of no, it's survival.
• 30:19
  OK, OK. Of all the Mccoys, why this one?
• 30:23
  It's because it's the best one. This is my this is my favorite
• 30:28
  classic series Doctor Who of all time.
• 30:30
  It has been for many, many years.
• 30:32
  Again, seeing it on transmission and thinking it was so like such
• 30:36
  an brilliant alien world and that I remember thinking the
• 30:40
  Cheetah people were terrifying. OK, the master who I met for the
• 30:46
  first time there, just this menacing figure that I don't
• 30:50
  know that Anthony Amy had other versions of this performance.
• 30:53
  And just like I wouldn't have realized it at the time, but
• 30:56
  just setting it in a suburban neighborhood like the one I
• 30:59
  lived in did must have done so much for so many people.
• 31:03
  It hits. You, doesn't it?
• 31:04
  As soon as that TARDIS lands on that very mundane St.
• 31:09
  Yeah, and I just like all that running around in that quarry as
• 31:13
  a kid, I just found the most exhilarating, and I waited for
• 31:16
  so long for it to come out on VHS.
• 31:18
  And I think again, it was only 9495, something like that.
• 31:21
  But it was a long time as a kid not to see that story.
• 31:25
  I just remember that red moon in the sky and all that paintball
• 31:29
  and it just feeling like the most exotic production I've ever
• 31:32
  seen. And I like when I saw in DWM it
• 31:37
  was coming out on video, it was just straight away.
• 31:40
  I need to save up my pocket money and buy it the day it
• 31:43
  comes out. And I trundled down to WH Smith
• 31:46
  and bought it the day it came out and it was like, it was
• 31:49
  still the best thing I've ever seen.
• 31:51
  And it still is. Like, I, I again, I, I watch it
• 31:55
  all the time. We're doing a commentary on it
• 31:57
  soon, Joe. I have we never done a
• 31:59
  commentary on this you. Know we've got we've got one in
• 32:01
  the diary. Check your diary.
• 32:02
  Normally you're so half as sarcastic when we do classic
• 32:06
  stories, but this one I feel you may have a bit of reverence
• 32:09
  about yourself. I love the entire thing.
• 32:11
  It's brilliant. And you know, it's been said
• 32:14
  before that there isn't that much difference between that and
• 32:17
  where it picks up in rows. And I think it's a blueprint for
• 32:21
  any Doctor Who just setting it in this in reality in a real
• 32:26
  life, which would be. An Unearthly Child, isn't it?
• 32:28
  It is set in a contemporary setting.
• 32:31
  Obviously 63 and 89, they're two different times.
• 32:35
  So you're going to get a different contemporary times.
• 32:39
  It's, it's an open child. It's survival.
• 32:40
  It's Rose. Yeah, you're right.
• 32:42
  It's the same template, but just telling tonally very different
• 32:46
  stories. I mean, Roman.
• 32:48
  Roman. She comes in with some really
• 32:51
  unusual ideas about that planet, doesn't she?
• 32:53
  And how it gets under your skin emotionally and about how
• 32:57
  something's erupting out of your own as a metaphor for fucking
• 33:00
  puberty or possibly sexuality emerging.
• 33:04
  It's it's unlike any other Doctor Who story in that
• 33:07
  respect. Ace turning around and having
• 33:09
  the yellow eyes after like 14 weeks that I've been with this
• 33:14
  show was like, oh, no, this is because Ace was fucking great
• 33:17
  when I was a kid. You know, she was, she was the
• 33:20
  identity figure and she was amazing.
• 33:23
  Oh, I do Joe. I do.
• 33:25
  So survival the the the best that's ever done it.
• 33:30
  I'll never forget. You know, I used to find that
• 33:32
  image of Sylvester Mccoy's are sticking in the air out of that
• 33:35
  sofa. I'll be like, oh, my God, he's
• 33:38
  dead. And he's died in the most
• 33:39
  embarrassing fashion. What a way to go.
• 33:42
  Oh, my word. I mean, I think, I think even
• 33:46
  like now there is a lot of love for survival.
• 33:49
  Yeah. You can sort of poke at the
• 33:51
  kittens, can't you? The animatronics and.
• 33:54
  Yeah. Sure.
• 33:55
  But fuck it, it's classic Doctor Who.
• 33:58
  So you could poke fun at something on everything on this
• 34:02
  list, including the ones that will appear on everybody's list.
• 34:04
  None of them. Hello, the prime Ord makeup.
• 34:10
  It's not what we're here for. Well, that was started off very
• 34:15
  eclectic, then it got basic in the middle and then I think you
• 34:19
  ended on, I don't know, there'll be many putting that as #1 but.
• 34:23
  I'd be interesting to see if it entered anybody else's top 10
• 34:26
  because I don't think it's it's hated.
• 34:28
  No, not at all. Not at all.
• 34:30
  But I said to Joe, there'll be a McCoy on everybody's top 10
• 34:34
  classics, but it'll be different every time.
• 34:38
  And it will sort of, because I think it's a really
• 34:40
  idiosyncratic era where it offers a lot of different
• 34:43
  things. Some it will be Ghost like, some
• 34:45
  it will be Survival, some would be Cursor Fenrick.
• 34:47
  That's just 26. Fucks sake.