Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Build trust and you’re good, no matter your age – Nick Adamthwaite

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Build trust and you’re good, no matter your age – Nick Adamthwaite · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everybody, it's Sam Oakes here at the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've missed you guys.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've been on holiday.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't released many episodes for a while, but I'm back.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm back with Nick Adamthwaite from Master Plan.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Nick is essentially a next gen financial planner.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's under 30 years old and he's running his own business.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: But we talk a little bit about his career progression and where, in the very, very beginning, he was thinking about turning away from it completely.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: He then moved into self-employment and very quickly learned what is required to be a financial advisor.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he had some fantastic support from mentors.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about the importance of that.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about the importance of the culture and the value of the people that you work for.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about the future, what's in store for Nick in his new business.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Nick, thank you for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good, thanks.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Pleased to be invited on.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: No problem at all.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, obviously, we've we've spoken, we've met each other a few times, drunken nights on King Street back in Bristol, when you were back visiting, because you used to go to uni here.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not young enough to have gone to uni, but you know Tom as Parton Howarth from my company Recruit UK, don't you?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's how we did the same course, did the same course as at uni, both economists.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: We've got a few mutual friends.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, like you say, we've had a few nights talking about talking about the ins and outs of financial planning over a few too many beers, haven't we?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there we go.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely fantastic.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's great to get you on the podcast today.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, you've been um sort of a keen follower of the podcast.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think you were one of the first people who left me a review, so thank you very much for that.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: A nice positive one.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, it's really, really great to get you on the podcast and to to really kind of find out about your journey then in the financial planning profession, because you're not uh, well, just taking a look at you, you're not middle-aged, you're not 55 years old, gray, well, you're white, white, middle-aged financial advisor.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're younger than that.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're under 30 years old.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations, you're in a small percentile of under 30-year-old financial planners.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: But so I thought we'd get you on today and uh talk about your journey.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, Adam, I always love to kick it off by really first off, just trying to sort of get to grips and understand how you actually found out about the profession and how you ended up getting into the profession.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was your entry route into the advisor arena as well?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I think first and foremost, starting out quite a or getting to know the profession.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's quite a common one well across peers.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: My dad was actually a well, my dad is a financial advisor as well.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I feel like a lot of people have done that.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: But I think I was almost trained or yeah, trained to do it.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: I I was always going to do it.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I had work experience in say year 10, work experience at investment banks, that sort of thing.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I always thought, oh, yeah, I'll probably do an economics degree or a finance-related degree.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um and yeah, kind of just almost when we when I graduated, applied for all sorts of jobs um in the financial services industry.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was one of those where I wasn't in a position to, yeah, I wasn't in a position to take any time off.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: It was very much uh right, we need graduated, let's go and find a job as soon as possible.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I did a bit of a bit of work in London.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I did an internship in London actually, um, which was really good.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: It was in a structured product firm.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: So obviously a bit different to the whole financial planning side of things.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: And then after that, I was applied to a couple of jobs and got offered a couple of graduate roles.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: There was one that was in Bristol, um, training, well, yeah, trainee financial planner.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then the one that I turned down was one in London that was in it was in a foreign exchange uh company, just on the phone.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: I actually know one of my friends.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: So one of my friends, I didn't take it, recommended it to one of my friends, the mutual friend from Tom Tom Barton, actually.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: And he was in there and out of there by about a month.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it was good, good job that I turned that one down and took the Bristol one.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, that was kind of it.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then trained, trained through, was doing that, did that job for about 18 months.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and yeah, then moved on, moved on to Pastors New.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just go back a little bit then.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's what's quite interesting is we do get quite a sometimes we get quite a lot of young listeners, and they have shown a keen interest in the financial services.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they tend to listen to this podcast to find out a little bit about financial planning and what it's all about.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you were at school and you did some work experience when you were year 10, year 11 in an investment bank, did you?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so year 10, and then just through summers, really.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like summers through A levels, always had like six weeks.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, to be fair, if I can name check the chap Danny Ingram, really, I actually bumped into him about yeah, the start of this year, and it was just like, Danny?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: So he him seeing me grow up, that sort of thing.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think he was quite pleased.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, he was really good.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: He was really good help.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I won't lie, I got that connection through my dad, obviously, but going every summer, meeting these people, getting to know kind of what it's like in the investment bank environment, um, it just kind of confirmed that, yeah, it confirmed that for me, someone that was always interested in finance or thought I was interested in finance, it confirmed that, yeah, I do want to do this kind of on a daily basis.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so that was but that was big.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like that was really, really big part of it.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think with those, with that experience on my CV, even just so people knew I had experience in the office, um, was good for me getting getting into the that first firm.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a great talking point, isn't it?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: When you're looking at that first firm you're trying to get into straight out of university, and you can show on your CV that you've had some work experience in uh maybe a selection of companies.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be financial planning, but it could be something financial services related.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: It um gives you that stepping stone, it backs up your economics degree, but also I think it shows that you've used your initiative as well.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a lot of people will actually go and get a couple of weeks experience, they might get a couple of months' experience, they might take a bit of a pay cut to do that.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Some people just do it for free, but it just gives you something to talk about.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think you would have do you think you would have had an interest in financial services if it wasn't for your dad working in it?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you must have been growing up watching him, you know, do his.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Did he share a lot?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you and dad got a good connection?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Did he share a lot about his job and everything?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: My dad never told me anything about his job.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: He hates it.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: We do.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of those.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm smiling now because I'm I've thought about it and I'm sure we'll get on to the past, should we say the post-pandemic part of Nick's career?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think, yeah, there's certain things where it was all he was telling me stories like he was uh in an ideal world, I would have been I think straight A student, that sort of thing, maybe been fund managing so he could have an early retirement, that sort of thing.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that's what it started out.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: Me being 12, he was like, right, this is sort of money you could add.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I was always attracted to just earning quite a bit of cash.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas, yeah, in like it's the reason I'm smiling because in that sort of during the pandemic, some there was some times when I'm like questioning, I'm like, where why oh, I'm not too satisfied with the current role or current situation, and then I'm almost stepping back, going back years and years.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: Where did it start?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: Where did it start that I went into financial planning?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: Where did was kind of the glassdoors sliding doors moment?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it is is my dad being so, yeah, rightly or wrongly, I was always going to go into financial advice.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: There are some moments, I could say, where yeah, I could have maybe I could have chosen different industry and had a had a happier route or had enjoyed less.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, I'm not one to kind of well, I was about to say I'm not one to dwell.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: I am one to dwell.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not one to regret things because you know, I just I am where I am.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think my career has been good.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: I've been self-employed for a lot of it.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a lot of stuff that's gone on in my 20s where me having this job and having the career pan out as the way it has, I think I'm very grateful.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like I do, yeah, very, very grateful, in fact.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get stuck into that and look at your career then today, because as you said, you know, you spent a majority of that being self-employed, which we'll which we'll get into.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I imagine your first role in financial planning wasn't self-employed.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, correct.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: I got that, that was from that was actually through my university.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think they got the the person who eventually hired me, a chap called Andy Barr in um in Bristol.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: He got my CB, or yeah, he put got in touch with the university, and I saw the job description on the university board, got in touch with him, spoke with him on the phone, and instant connection, really.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, really instant connection.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was almost like we actually look quite similar as well.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know whether he was like, this guy's a mini version of me.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or thought that could potentially be it.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: But that's kind of what what my trajectory was, those first couple of years.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, first couple of years, obviously, and that was that was it.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: But then I'm gonna go on to where it kind of got, you know, a few people that know me close, you know me, obviously, Sam.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: There was a bit of a hiccup, unfortunately, in my career.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, hiccup's a bit of an understatement, but so in my life, when I when I was 21, just as I graduated, my um, yes, so literally as I graduated, my mum, unfortunately, at the same time, had been diagnosed with cancer.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it was stage four ovarian cancer, which at the time I didn't know was as bad as it was.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, she actually got diagnosed, we didn't know that she got prognosis of six months to live at the time, and she lived for two years, just over two years, which is just a testament to kind of how healthy and how determined she was.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: I was actually chatting with with my auntie recently about it, and it was probably only six weeks before she passed away that she almost lost the will to live.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, but yeah, that that two years of her struggling and her fighting and battling against cancer, that was part of the decision to part of the decision to be in Bristol and take that Bristol job versus London.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: That was because she'd moved south.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: I had my brother in Bristol as well, and we just needed, or one of my two brothers, we just needed to firm up as a family, as I'm sure people can understand.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, her doing that, and me being close, like close geographically to her, 45 minutes away to where she moved.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad I did that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad I took glad I took that job.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: But it actually ended quite in a bit of a way that I don't know, sour.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'd probably say sour is the word that I describe.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, we can go.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to go into it too much, but what I will say is I ended up actually quitting that job 18 months into it.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I was 75% qualified.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: The plan was to qualify, and then once I qualify there after two years, just become like an associate planner.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: But 18 months, so two twin brothers or two brothers, they're four years older than me twins, one working in Bristol, one working over in New York, he lives in New York, he's got family over there and stuff.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: When we kind of got the uh basic, when we got the news that my mum wasn't gonna make it anymore, it was like, right, okay, we my brother flew over and had three months uh leave from his boss, no questions asked, and they just said, check in with us in three months, and um you can tell us if she's still alive, hopefully, you stay over for longer if she's not, you know, then well, you can take as much time as you need.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that's you know how you know that would have been nice for him to hear.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: My other brother in Bristol, similar sort of situation, he wanted to kind of carry on a bit of a carry on a bit of a um structure, and that's how he was coping.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: So he was over in Bristol, he carried on doing a bit of work and he'd come over on weekends, but when it really, really hit the crunch time, he was like, right, obviously his work were like, yeah, go over.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: This is more important than work.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: My situation, and this wasn't this wasn't anything to do with the chap Andy Barr that I just name checked.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it was one of his someone that he used to work with.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: He wasn't, I I basically was like, Look, my mum's dying.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: I need to take time off.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: There's no two ways about it.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: My brother's had three months off, unpaid.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: I need three months off unpaid.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: But the geezer or the chap, he yeah, he just didn't.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know for what reason he didn't like it, and he he wasn't playing ball with that.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I was actually told that I could take the rest of the week off, two days' holiday, two days compassionate leave.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, and then also it kind of I was talking to my brother about it, it reminded me that six months earlier I was kind of I had to take a week off to spend with my mum by my mum's hospital bed while she was like having her gut chopped open.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I I had to take five days annual leave for it.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: So kind of almost me in that sphere, I was just like young lad, 22.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I'm gonna I need to, you know, I need to prioritize my work.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then I stepped out of it, spoke to my brothers.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: They were like, spin this guy off, like he doesn't know, he doesn't know a clue or have a clue.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I did.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I'm taking a risk.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: My mum, I remember on her day, she was there, she was getting ill, but she said she was like, if you honestly, honestly believe it, or believe that it's right, do it because people don't employ you.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: You're smart enough for people to employ you.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, make sure you don't burn any bridges.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, all right, I'll go back in.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: And safe to say, I burnt that bridge.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: Very, very I'm an emotional guy, I burned that bridge, but he I was they weren't doing me right, so good riddance.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: So no, I can understand that, and being early on in your career as well, and not having a huge amount of experience, really, how to um position yourself in that situation when somebody's dying within your family, especially your mother, because you're torn between wanting to sit by your mother's side and be with your family and also commit to the job that you have said that you will do.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I don't think you're alone in that place.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think um, and it's a real shame, it's really sad to hear that the owner of that business didn't have that kind of empathy or understanding to be able to offer that compassionate leave in a way that was outside of a box.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think sometimes people think, well, they get all kind of fearful that if you, you know, it's taking time off, which means the business is going to suffer.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's such a it's a real reflection on the individual about how they value their staff and obviously how how how you felt valued.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, God, if I think I've I was in your position at that age as well, I would have I would have rebelled instantly.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I would have found it also very, very hard.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Was that role what was that role out of interest?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Your first entry-level position into financial planning.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: What was it you were doing during that period as well?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: It was I was doing, I mean, it's I guess it was admin slash power planning because we were doing a bit of report writing as well.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so just supporting supporting the other advisor, actually.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: So there's two chaps in charge.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, nice fella, bigger version of me, I was working under him, but the chap in who had the final say, I wasn't working for him.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: And he or I was working under him, and he was just yeah, so but the job that I was doing was, yeah, like I say, the admin, all the while I was kind of trained, I was the one that in the office, it was like, right, this this guy's gonna be.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think the people in my office that work there would have an issue with me saying, I went in there from uni hungrier than any of them, and they were all like, This guy's gonna be the future of our company.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted to be.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: And this bloke that I had fallen out with said to me, he was like, You'll be a director of this company in a few years.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that's part of why he kicked off.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: He's one of these old white blokes though, that got told no.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So old school, it's the it kind of makes hard, isn't it?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like it's like being drilled into them throughout their life and throughout their career.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: The the way you should turn up to work, how you should behave in the work environment, what's expected of you.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they've kind of been indoctrinated and um um disciplined in that way.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to trying to loosen up a little bit, yeah, probably really, really hard for those people.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I've gone through that experience even at my age, where I've had to change the culture of my I've had I've had to physically change me to adapt to the next generation that I'm employing.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't realize just how stuck in my way I was from what I learned.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: What were we give me an example?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so examples for us is things like flexible working.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for you as being a business owner, you have this idea in your head that if people aren't in your site, therefore they're not working.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: You have a picture in their in your head that they've probably got their feet up watching Netflix or in the pub on on the Wednesday night so they could have a hangover day on the Thursday.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you have that kind of idea and that mentality in your head, and all you're doing is building up that picture, and it's a fear, isn't it?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fear of people not doing what they should be doing, and also it's a feeling of a lack of control.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I had an issue around control.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I had to have people in to feel that they were doing the job that they were doing, it's absolute bollocks, it's completely rubbish.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And as and you know, that's what that's kind of like what one of the examples.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even things like pre-COVID, we were wearing suits and ties to work.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So the image was completely different to what it is now.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Our office is you couldn't get more relaxed now.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like relaxed, it's flexible, flexible hours.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Holidays completely changed.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Holidays, we've got once you reach a certain point, you get unlimited holidays.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I've literally let go of the reins now and made it all about the individual taking responsibility.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's it, isn't it?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: So they, you know, they are completely and utterly responsible and accountable for their own actions.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And by doing that, it's completely taken the control away from me.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And as somebody that had a bit of a problem with control because of fear of like loss, I recognize like, wow, that's really loosened me up a lot.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's allowed me to grow as a person because actually, you know, when you let go of the reins and you trust those individuals, because this is what it's all about, is trust as a business owner.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Don't hire somebody you don't trust.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't trust someone, there might be a reason for that, but only if they show you you can't trust them.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So don't make an assumption that someone's going to piss, you know, take the piss until someone takes the piss.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then at that point, then you can address it in a way that's like, right, you have taken the piss.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: What are you going to do about it?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's now on you because we're not changing our structure.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: You either conform to this structure or it's not the right type of environment.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can't be trusted within an environment that gives you that much flexibility.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: But the feedback that we've had and the individuals in the office, they're just absolutely lapping it up.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that's how we've changed, and that's what I feel that's important.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: To be fair, you know what?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: Going from I've I've dug out old white blokes there, and this guy in particular was an example of someone who was yeah, stuck in the ways or whatever, um, and kind of didn't have much empathy.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then my experience probably a year after that, so I had a year off, year sabbatical.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: Say I I quit in June, I walked away from this company in June 2020, no, 2016.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: So take yourself back.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Leicester were just about to win the league.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: It was one of those.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Donald Trump was, he was nowhere to be well, he yeah, he was November.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: So, but it was one of those where I took a year, I finished in June, told this book, I was like, look, yeah, you can't give me a few days off.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: How about that?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, didn't even think about things or think about work, just focused on myself.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Spent loads on actually FIFA, FIFA ultimate team.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that was what I was doing for the first last few months of 2016.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then 2017, January, I was like, right, in fact, I had a call with my dad.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: He was like, look, right, come on, we're giving you a bit of time off, but what you're gonna do now, you need to actually, you're 75% qualified as a financial advisor.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: I know at times I've been like, I don't want to do that again, I don't want to do financial services.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: This guy's putting me up for life.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: What am I doing?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: So toying with opening a bar, toying with you know, doing any sorts of anything.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then it was like, actually, I think a few he had a few conversations with me.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: He said, Look, I think the thing that changed me, he said, You're so personal, it's personable, you will be really good at this.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Oh, okay, a bit of praise.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's all it takes, bit of praise.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, Yeah, we're going.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, the people that really, and that was nice from my dad to give me that boop up my ass, which I needed.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: I then paid for my exams, just smashed them full-time, did them in a couple of months, and just qualified.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: And when I qualified, the people, there were three people that really, really put faith in me, and I will name check these guys.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: So, Matt Bell of Prosperity, Matt Williams of Prosperity, and then Mark Evans of Prosperity as well.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: The faith those guys put in me, the two the two Matt's, they were like, right, yeah, we we trust you as a bloke.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that was just blind faith, almost simply it was.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: My dad's reputation, but for these guys to be like, right, we're taking someone that's not actually advised, we're gonna get you to the point where we're gonna take you on as an advisor, we're not just sticking you in case for it, we see you as a person, that personality.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: And then for Mark to kind of give me a crash course, and then just let me for them to let me cut my teeth on through like postcode leads.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: So it was almost like new fresh leads.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: That if I if I messed up, the business wasn't, you know, there wasn't any reputational risk to the business.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, just honestly, those guys that saw the situation, they saw the situation, they were like, right, he's had a really tough time here for that.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: He's had a tough time, a tough reaction from his work, which he shouldn't have done.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: He's shown that he can be, that he's actually gonna be keen.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let's put faith in him.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: And whether it's like I say, you know, sometimes I look at it, I'm like, yeah, nepotism, my dad worked there, but also my mother just died, so it's one of them.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: I've got no issues with that.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, those guys, and then then well, regardless of how you entered into that position, um, there's a couple of things there that I want to sort of explore.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: One is that you've gone from having some experience, albeit quite broken, if you like, and probably quite up and down with your emotions and uh etc., from your first role, and obviously your mum having cancer whilst you were in that first role, you're doing administration power planning.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to then go from there where you're 75% qualified to move into a position of, you know, a true, by the sounds of it, kind of um trainee financial planner position.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's that element there I wouldn't mind exploring a little bit, but there's also the element of the fact that you had some mentors around you.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And one of those things I think with anybody is when you have people that are supporting you and believe in you and are checking in with you and are holding you accountable for the work that you're doing, maybe uh removing some of the boundaries, if you like, to your learning.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because you strike me as somebody that doesn't particularly probably like to follow the boundaries, you know, like you like to not that you push back, you push boundaries, not you break them, you push them and you like step outside of it, and perhaps a bit of a you know, uh you learn by doing.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that trick so the trainee role that you went into, I mean, was there a had they done it before?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a proven track that you could go down, or were you essentially, you know, their guinea pig, if you like, of bringing somebody in a trainee level?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because there weren't huge amounts of trainee positions that long ago, was there?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I feel like I feel like it was almost like me coming in from as completely fresh, that was a bit of a guinea pig.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: Because previously, like say Mark, Mark Evans, the guy I mentioned, I know him and his brother Gary, in terms of a family family firm prosperity, such a good like the link there, and they look after their own.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: But these two, they were doing protection work and protection advice, say, in a call center previously.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, not call center.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: It makes me sound like I'm talking down on it, but it was telephone advice on that side of things, and then they kind of eased into the financial planning um after doing that, so they had client experience on that side.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: But for as far as I know, I was the first one that went straight into financial planning because what a lot of people did as well would go admin, power planning, mortgages, and then full-on planning.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: But I think my dad actually told me it was like just go straight into financial planning.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: In hindsight, you know, I was learning to run before I could walk, but eventually, like it took me three, four months of really well, still learning now.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Talk us through those first three or four months, okay?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because they they recognized that you had something about you, your personality, yeah.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're a personable individual individual.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: They felt comfortable knowing that they could probably put you down in front of a client or at least engaging and opening up conversations to talk about the need for financial planning, correct?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So those first sort of three to four months in that training trainee position.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: So just talk us through the beginning, then what you know, because it's obviously a bit of a baptism of fire.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: You don't just started out, had a few messages, a few meetings with Mark, Mark Evans, um, and then also went to some review meetings with my dad as well.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: A few of the people um came or went along to shout out.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, in fact, yeah.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think it the key thing really was just going into those meetings.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna name check everyone because it was loads of blokes that I was going in with, and they were happy for me to go and have their time and just watch their style.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: But also, there was key elements of the advice that I I still stick to, as in the advice that people were giving me.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: So, one that sticks out if you know, if anyone listening to this is thinking about becoming a planner or even planners now, whatever you might re-evaluate in your own thing.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: My dad told me, and this sticks in, he was like, it's literally, it's literally all just about the objectives, and you know, that is we've got next gen planners, we've got all sorts doing that and trying to drill that in, pool arms and all that sort of stuff, and it all just points back to that one thing, it's about objectives.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, I would what I basically would go and do, and this was kind of my technique that I threshed out with Mark, was it's go go through like certain things that we need to cover off, but basically just get them talking, so get them talking about themselves, and if a lot of what they would try to do, a lot of people would just kind of get me to ask certain questions there and then, that sort of thing, or answer certain questions there and then.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: And my think was like, Look, I don't know this to a point where I can say it confidently without having to double check.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: And this, like, I had the knowledge, but to actually try and overpromise, or you know, I was like, right, I'll tell all that, I'll tell you all that once I've gone away, done my homework, and done all the research.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: And that's like it's one of those where it's it's just kind of like a stop gap.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's almost like a bit of a cheat code for anyone that's not too confident, or they think, oh, a bit of imposter syndrome.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: Because they don't mind that.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: The last thing they want is someone bumbling about, like, oh, actually, I don't know.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's all just about earning their trust, that first meeting.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: But these, I guess some people might be like, where did you get those clients from?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: Or where did you get those leads from?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: We actually one of the things that at Prosperity that's quite cool is postcode leads.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm sure everyone's quite well to or everyone knows what's going on with that.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: But just quick summary, it's one where say if you, as a non, no one in the financial services industry, Sam, you wanted to have someone look at your pension, you'd be like, Oh, I want to find a local financial advisor.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: You Google local financial advisor, then you go onto a website, one of many websites, and then you pop your details in, you say kind of how much of your pension, blah, blah, blah, and then click submit with the view to a financial advisor ringing you to then kind of well yeah, help you out, but turn that into business.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: So we at Prosperity had when I joined, I remember in that time off between my mum dying and me eventually joining, joining my old man when I'd see him a lot, he'd have the and it was all just going through a WhatsApp group, and he got he got an Apple Watch, and his Apple Watch was always banging on this WhatsApp group, and he just said, Well, postcode lead, you'll be able to have that, Nick, that one.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, Okay, so deals just cut, or like leads come in and they come in a lot, and it's your up to you to go and get it.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I was just going and just seeing people, meeting people from all walks of life, and just in that first three months, just putting in so much work and just so much, so many miles in the car, like yeah, loads, loads of time, loads of time on the road.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, really getting to get into grips with the self-employed life, actually.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: When you were doing that then, those post so for people listening, you know, you've got like rated advisor revenue and yeah, yeah, vouched for and all.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, is it vouched for?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, vouched for that lot.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: So someone searches for an advisor.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: Unbiased as well.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Unbiased, yes.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: The lead a lead comes into the inbox, and your job, you know, being the trainee was to qualify that lead, really as well, isn't it?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: It comes on in, you give it a quick call.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, how are you doing?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've come through, you're inquiring about some a pension transfer or whatever it might well be.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: You do a qualification with that person, build a bit of rapport with them, tell them a little bit probably about how you work as a financial advisor, how you charge, that kind of thing.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then your aim and objective was to really go out there and sit down, if they were worthwhile, I guess, to sit down and just open up conversations and to find out really what their objectives are from their future, get them talking, ask some fact-finding questions, establish what their financial needs might well be, whether it's protection, whether it's investments, whether it's pensions or whatever else it might well be.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then if they ever kind of ask you some questions that were a bit too technical for the time, uh for the experience that you had, you're able to say, yeah, great question, but I'm gonna go away and do some research and come back to you with some answers.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lovely way to, anyway, just kind of further the further the relationship anyway, because if you've got a reason to come back anyway, yeah, yeah.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Great way to connect with them.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a lovely piece of advice for anybody as well that's thinking, God, you know, if I'm gonna go and sit down in front of a client in the early stages of my financial planning career, do I need to know absolutely everything about all the different product ranges, all the different types of investments, all the different types of pensions, all the different tax implications?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to know that.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you've brought that quite simply down to the fact that actually what you became good at, and you observed this as well through other advisors, is that ability to build a rapport instantly, that ability to build a relationship instantly.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's something you picked up within that first three to four months by putting yourself in front of clients, but also more importantly as well, I think, is observation.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: So being able to sit down and listen to another financial advisor and to learn from them.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a massive believer of um of watching others.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: My success in anything usually comes from watching somebody else do it.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll find somebody who's really good at something, I will watch how they do it, and I'll make it and I'll do it.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's that's my philosophy.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: If they're good at it, why why reinvent the wheel?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do what they're doing, but bring that style to you, you know, change the style to your own personality.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: Make it your fit.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was it.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: Make it it all those, all those sorts of things, the vocabulary, vocabulary, you kind of make your own, but it just it just fully comes down to just trust, like build their trust because you are talking, whether you're 23 or 53.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: These people want to know that you are not someone that's going to run away with their life savings.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's what it comes down to first and foremost.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, once you've got that done, they're like, okay, you know, and you can make a bit of a joke about oh, the first meeting on the phone, you're you break down barriers.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's one, I remember, I think it was Nigel Evans, another Evans brother, he um gave me a tip that was always refer to refer to the first meeting.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: It will cost them, say, a cup of tea and the cost of a packet of biscuits.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: And if you they've got a packet of biscuits for you outweighted, it was always surefire.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, yeah, these people are in, but it's just it is just fully about building trust.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: And there's something that this is a tip that I came, this is a tip that I heard from I think it was on Brendan Fraser, Human Sided Money Podcast.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and he had a chap on called Dan Soleil, maybe, or Dan Soleil, and he was he now consults for like planners in America, you know, one of these guys feel like you'd probably get him to speak at a conference if you've got a cheeky 10-15 grand lying around, that sort of thing.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: But this guy, oh this kind of scientific, like neuroanalysis he's gone into about say, and he's aware of chemical reactions going on in your brain when you're talking about yourself and your life story.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, hold on.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's you know, it's close to like the pleasure, you know, there's certain other things that that you get more pleasure out of, but there's not much that you get that's more pleasure than talking about yourself and your life story.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember going in, and this was this is fairly recently.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: This is 20, this is 2022.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: I went in with this couple, I was like, you know what?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna take any notes.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not even gonna take a notepad, that sort of thing.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I had one piece of paper that I've pre-written checklist just for things, date of birth, full name, NI number, that sort of thing.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then also a checklist just in case I was finishing.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I'm just gonna ask them about their story, and I'm really, really gonna try and shut up when they're answering.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: And if there's a silent point, I'll be like, don't talk, don't talk.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that is hard for me.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like I find things quite, I find silence is very awkward.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: But oh my word.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: The rapport that I built with them over like an hour, hour and a half, it was just it's quite a good, quite a good first meeting.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: But I knew it's quite a chunky one, but I got to know them.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: We barely spoke about products.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't speak about pensions, I didn't speak about what I was going to recommend at all.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: But I knew at the end of that first meeting these guys were gonna become a client.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: And they did, and this that was just I remember ringing my brother actually, because they both knew that I was going through a bit of like, yeah, so end of last year, they knew they both knew I was going through a bit of a almost soul searching, turning 30 this year.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's a bit of that court life or third life crisis.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: But I remember ringing and being like, This is that, yeah, I love this job.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's about the building trust.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: I've almost I'd forgotten that it's about building the trust and just people, like during COVID, not seeing people.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: Really, yeah, really.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like it got to me a bit.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: I won't lie.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just I'm sure it did with loads of people, but as someone that wants to be out seeing clients, and then you talk to you.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: You enjoy.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I spoke very early on, you realize that administration power planning, the more researching function, the more back office type function, that it wasn't for you.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: You get your you get your pleasure, your happiness from sitting down and speaking to people and building that rapport with them and understanding their objectives and perhaps creating, well, you are creating solutions to their future fears and worries and concerns.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you're right around the the listening side.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the biggest things I ever learned in um I'm gonna call sales, yeah, customer service or sales, is the ability to shut up and listen.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because there is so much that you can learn from listening.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a little monkey in your brain that's saying, I've got to jump in here, I want to say something.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, you wait 30 seconds, you wait a minute, and what you were gonna say doesn't sound as good as what you thought it was you want to say, because they've they've changed the tone slightly, or it might have led a different way.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: So then your question then becomes far more uh poignant when you wait and you listen, and they've got that ability to actually let it out because of more often than not, people don't get the ability to talk as much as they want to talk, and especially sometimes I think around things that they have fuck all knowledge about.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: So some people don't have a clue about money, do they?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they kind of want to tell you that and they want to engage with you in that sort of way, and they want to open up and share that vulnerability to you.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the ability to listen and to kind of just actively listen by asking some probing questions, by leading questions, not by giving your opinion every two seconds, just by reassuring them with your answers that they can continue on and they're they're in a safe space and they can continue sharing.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: All that does is build a deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper connection with you of trust.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because once they're in and they've gone across the line, it's very hard to pull out then because they've shown that vulnerable side to them.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I believe it's a lot of the time it's about getting people to feel vulnerable.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Can they feel vulnerable whilst feeling safe and that they can trust that person?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because in vulnerability, change happens.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: In vulnerability, good things happen.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not for you to exploit their vulnerability, that's wrong.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're not going there with an objective, hopefully, of just rinsing them dry for all the money that they've got.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some sick buggers out there do that.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: But yours is about creating those solutions.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: So when you see that vulnerability, that worry, that concern, whatever it might well be, and then you wrap it up with a nice solution or an idea or a plan or some reassurance that you're going to get the answers they're looking for.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Happy days, you've built that deeper connection.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I like that.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's nice.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think early on in a financial planning career, and in any career where you need to really, where it's about people and relationships and building trust, I think having that face-to-face experience is just essential.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sitting in a back room doing absolutely nothing isn't gonna get you anywhere.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sitting in your doing your qualifications for a year and hoping at the end of it you're a financial advisor doesn't make you that financial advisor.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the advice to anybody is look, if you're talking to a firm, even at like an interview stage, you're going into entry levels, it's like, well, what exposure am I going to get to clients?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: When am I going to sit down with them?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because also, as well, we've got to take into consideration here as well, Nick, don't we?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: That you giving the advice on your own, you're not competent, are you, in the very, very beginning.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not a competent advisor, you've not been signed off as competent advisor.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to get that client exposure to be able to get those cases in place where they are observed and you get that sign off, and you can go out on your own in the future and be that wholly, solely responsible for the advice that you give your clients and build your own client base.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's like my experience, having my old man on the other side of the phone, I won't lie.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: Every single thing that I was doing, every single bit of advice I was doing, my old man was kind of, yes, that's right, no, that's wrong.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously, that's probably why the Mats were so happy and comfortable with me doing that sort of thing, and it makes sense, but yeah, that stage, that training advisor stage, if there was a role, if if people are considering, say, moving, or if they're in a role where they're power planning now and they're getting a bit frustrated, they're thinking, I could do that, I'll write the reports for this guy.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm the one that's putting in all that theory, I know that theory.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you might know that theory, but you need to get yourself to a point where you are in front of seeing what it's like in a client, because you can have all the best financial planning knowledge in the world, you can have all the best morals in the world.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: But if you sit there in someone's kitchen and that you're talking about 500 grand and they're almost trying to imply that you should be getting, you know, good performance there.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: What sort of performance can I get?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: And if they're there in something where you've got they've had five years of poor pension performance, it's so hard to not be like, I can get you better performance, or just try and please them so they go away and they're like, Yes, yes.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm someone that I feel like I'm a bit of a people pleaser.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a struggle for me to be like, it was almost like physically, I'd have to be like sitting on my hands to be like, not just overprise.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so that was a steep learning curve.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: But I'd say honestly, find yourself a role where, yeah, that exposure, because that came early doors.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: That came really early doors.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I think I was in one with my dad, and he said after he's like, You you can't achieve that, you can't do that for them.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then going forward, they're gonna judge your value as an advisor based on that now.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's not, it's not at all.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something early, but yeah, he could not recommend, um, could not recommend exposure as soon as possible, really.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned something before as well.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, being a younger advisor at the time when you were setting it out as a trainee, you mentioned imposter syndrome.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Did you suffer from that at all because of the um the idea that a financial advisor is somebody who's been around for a while and has, you know, you know, is a is a is a bit older and has got a bit more experience in life.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever sit down with people that you know you gave financial advice to, which most of the time, majority-wise, tend to be a bit older, don't they?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever feel the imposter syndrome at all?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: And how did you manage that?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like it was, yeah, it was imposter syndrome when things went well.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: That was the thing.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes, I'll be honest, things went badly because I was just going in that first few months.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: I was going meeting everyone.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: That first qualification, that first qualification phone call, it was more can I get in front of you?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't even to see whether it was worth it.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes I went, I'll go and see people, I'd drive to shoddy estates.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'd be like, not hammering anyone that lives on an estate, but I'd be like, This person's not got enough money to pay me, that sort of thing.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I have to sit there and look, I need to earn money to put food on my table as well.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: And it's one where some of those times I think, like, yo, what are you doing?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: You're not an imposter, you're just doing the wrong job.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: You're not qualified enough.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because people would see me, or not qualified, qualified enough.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: You're just not old enough.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Some people would be like, I've been working, I've been working and building, I've been a member of this pension for longer than this guy's been alive.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: So you can have as much, as much experience and you can know and be as competent as you want.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: But for some people, they really, and it's their loss because they're overcome that.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: How do you overcome that?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: Overcoming it, um, there's a lot of people that I listened to, actually, in the industry, peers that were, as in, not no one called peers, but my peers, few people that were my age or a few years above, doing it.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely killing it.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: There's a guy, can't remember his surname, don't yeah, Duncan.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: He runs Meridian in the Midlands now.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: I met him early doors at like a Zurich um, just like a Team Day or something.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: He was absolutely killing it, no issues with his age.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: Colleague that I used to work with, who now runs the investment committee at Prosperity, Stuart Bignall.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, he's very baby faced, but the guy knows his stuff.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: And he didn't have any issues with it.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I think on that side of things, just yeah, the imposter side of things back then, that was like, right, look at people around you.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'd say I suffer from more imposter syndrome now.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: And getting over that's a bit more of a struggle.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: I won't lie.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: It is, it really is.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: And that's sometimes I just have to almost be like, yeah, it's let's talk about that.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let's that's interesting.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: That back then, I think when you were a bit younger as well, you just want to get going, right?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: You really want to prove yourself.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: You've got some people that you're working for, you want to show value, they've taken some time out, they've given you training, coaching, they believe in you, right?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you want to please them.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: You touched out on that a second ago that you are a people pleaser.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: So having some people around you that are giving you so much attention, mentorship, direction, and opportunity, you are like, wow, you know, I want to please these guys.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: So for you, it's like, get out there, look past it.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if it feels uncomfortable, get me in there because I'm gonna learn as to, I'm gonna kiss a few frogs when it comes to um these new products.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get in front of absolutely everybody, and failure's gonna teach me some beautiful lessons, right?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what happened.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then as you kind of progressed on through there, you you you obviously we'll come back to this in a minute, but you obviously stayed there for a little while, didn't you?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Before you then moved on.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to touch on this imposter syndrome now.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because now you're yeah, when you were at prosperity, did you start on self-employment?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: So literally went straight into it, yeah.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then yeah, kind of hit the ground.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just built up, used a bit of the money that I had from inherited uh from my mother, and yeah, just kind of use that to keep myself afloat, really.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so interesting.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you you obviously, yeah, we're gonna go a little bit further forward in your career where you ended up leaving prosperity.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now you're one of the owners of Master Plan, aren't you?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: So this imposter syndrome then, when since how long's that come about then?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, what how long has it been about?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is it because now you're running your business and you're responsible for a few extra things?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: Or yeah, I think if we're dwitt drilling down into it, so I've always been one to kind of read around, always been keen on being like, right, I'm a financial advisor, it's an industry.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: No one out there is going to argue with me saying it's an industry that needed, especially back then, dragging from the stone ages a bit.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we'd only had RDR in 2012 or whatever.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of those where there was, I feel like compared to say tech, a lot of my friends are in that.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, I've always looked at like, right, how can we improve the industry?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: How will the industry improve?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: There's always firms that are going to be leading that, like the next gen planners, those guys.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I was always really keen to kind of suggest that we did things at my firm like that.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: So whether it's like I whether I was trusting what these guys like Michael Kittsis in America, like absolute god, nerd's eye view, like Messiah, listening to him and hearing that these things worked and hearing they were just people were justifying charging flat fees of like two grand a month or that sort of thing.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, okay, so it works.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: But I'd go bang on the door of my bosses at a relatively small firm in the Midlands and be like, this works, let's do this.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, No, we've been doing this for 30 years, mate.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: Longer than we and that's all, you know, they were all working in the bank.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: These guys have all got million-pound houses.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: Fair play.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: Who am I to tell them I'm wrong?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, tell them they're wrong.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: But there's only so many years where you can go on and just have that door just being like, thanks, but no thanks, thanks, but no thanks.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_03: And like my suggestions, I was like, these are good suggestions.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: Trust me.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: I I think these are good suggestions.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: Some things came in and they were like, that's a no-brainer, we can't say no to that.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, and all the while I was like plotting with my mate, like my good mate, Joe, Joe Young, who's the who's uh yeah, like he's he's the master, but my link to master plan.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: He we were plotting, and I say plotting because we honestly were.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: Some of the meetings we had, and then the brand, a brand that we were kind of calling it under, it was 99 problems, but money ain't one, or wealth ain't one.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: So just a nod to be like, yeah, we're cool, hip-hop.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but we were plotting, and we were talking about like we want to design a company.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: When we own a company, we're gonna have it flexible working, we're gonna make it the best company in financial services.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: We want people come, we want people coming out of uni being like, I want to be a financial planner.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_03: And there's loads of other firms doing that.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: There are loads of other next genning firms doing that, but there's still a lot of people that I think aren't, and they're doing the old school way and the bank way.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, basically, going back to the imposter syndrome, the fact I'm now in a position to like I'm chatting with Joe, and we're actually in a position where it's not all fantasy, we're not plotting, like we're putting in place the plot, and it's just I'm there.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I'm like, what?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: Are we actually am I in the position I was dreaming of being in four or five years ago?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just I yeah, I don't know how I don't know how I cope with this with the imposter syndrome, speaking to people, talking it, getting it out, but so I think I can kind of help you there, because I've gone through this myself.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Being a good recruiter, and then all of a sudden being a 50% shareholder in a recruitment business.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: I went from being a recruiter who was earning really, really good money, and I just got my head around that, to then being offered a 50% of a business.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: And a bit like you, I had ambition.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been quite an ambitious individual.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't been very educated, I haven't been very academic, but I've always believed in myself, a high opinion of myself.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it got me in trouble.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: It got me in trouble a few times, you know.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: My ego definitely got me in trouble a few times, and I've had to learn how to control that.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, had a I had ambition.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Ambition can be healthy, it can be unhealthy, right?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: But when I went into running a business, that was completely different from being a recruiter and just running a desk.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because there were multiple things you had to think about.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: All the things that you think would make the perfect business, you think, well, I'll just do that and I'll chuck it in there.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: When you're doing the job of a recruiter or you're doing the job of a financial advisor and you don't have to think about those other things and all of a sudden you then do, you then realize and empathize of what those guys and girls must go through who run their own businesses because it's incredibly tough because there's not enough time in the day to implement things at the speed of your expectations.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we have these really high expectations of what we believe we should be, or high expectations of what we think our business should be within a specific period of time.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we tend to like pile things upon things upon things upon things, and we spin multiple plates whilst trying to make money ourselves as well.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're you've got your own business, but you're a you're a business owner who who still advises, right?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: So now I'm a business owner who doesn't do any recruitment.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: I just focus on the areas of the business that I want to focus on to be able to grow it.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to hire people to do the things that I didn't want to do anymore to make the money, so I can go and do the things I want to do.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it took way longer than I thought it would take.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think and there lies this kind of reality check.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say imposter syndrome haunted me for a long time.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: And the stress levels that I experience and depression and the anxiety that it causes was huge because we have this pride as well, and we don't want to let go of something.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you run, run, run, run, run with it, and so it drives you nuts.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: And there, you know, and then you're always doubting yourself all the time.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because also, it's not when you're looking at somebody else run their business, it's not your money.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not your money.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're just looking all the time at the glass, you know, the you know, rose-tinted glasses look at how you would do things, but when it's your money, there's more risk at play, therefore, there's more chance of it screwing up and making you look bad.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we worry about that sort of thing.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like you're going through that kind of thing?
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's the yeah?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_03: You've hit the nail on the head, but this is so a key, like all those things are going on, and it's one of those where I just I'll be honest, I just bloody love it.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I absolutely as well.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was done.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: I was felt like the past, yeah, 2021, like I say, pandemic, not being able to see some people, lonely, got lonely, and then I was like, right, no, I want to do something else.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not getting fulfillment from my job.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was trying other things, like you know, the app.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_03: When I was trying the app, failure at the moment, learn from it.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: Tried another thing fairly, fairly recently, Adam's Waite's Money Club, just trying to do, trying to change my day-to-day, fail or fail because I didn't have the energy for it.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, that one kind of master plan came in and kind of ran all over that.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_03: So the timing of that, but I was honestly, I'd say, yeah, depressed at the end of last year, and to the point where I was like, I don't really want to do this work at all.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm like the other side of it.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: I've got so much work to do, and it's thrilling.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like it is absolutely thrilling.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, I'm living again, I'm living.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas end of last year, I was just like, right, let's kick off.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's two o'clock, let's just spin it off for the day.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and put it to the back of the mind, wake up the next morning, just like, uh but yeah, so now I'm actually doing have that responsibility.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, yeah, this is brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_03: So come on.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Also, something in that as well, that when you were working for prosperity, and it's interesting for any of the listeners who are thinking about going self-employed, that you were like a registered individual, self-employed underneath somebody else's firm, right?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: You were a prosperity financial advisor, yet you were self-employed.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you're in conflict sometimes like that.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: As long as you believe in the brand and that the company themselves also um have the same values and culture and thought processes that you have around how they do business and the future of their business, that's okay because you can align yours to theirs.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're self-employed underneath another firm, there lies in conflict.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hell yeah.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because they start questioning you like you're self-employed, but they'll question you like an employee, and there is a conflict there.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: Did you did you experience that?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, massively.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: I've not even realized that was a big part of it, but you saying it then, I'm like, that's why.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I was getting so because yes, I experienced that a lot, man.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like there was, I'll tell you, I'll give you a couple examples.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there was one where it sounds pathetic.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna say it's his issue, not mine.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_03: But he this all compliance guy got really like kicked off because we were uh because and I was in charge, or like I was one of the boys that was in charge of like doing the marketing at Prosperity.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_03: I thought, you know, I'll give these repay the favor.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: They put a big favor in me.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um and this new compliance guy came in and he had like a and we had it, we were just running it, the marketing team.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_03: We just had it really efficiently.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_03: Me, Mark Evans, Dave Hadley, Anka Singh, just going.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then this old guy came in, and he was almost like he basically he called me out on using apostrophes in posts that we put online.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, it's not a professional tone.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, mate, you're here to check reports and you know make sure the advice is compliant.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: I know the FCA handbook on social media promotions, like the back of my hand.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: But it's one of those where this guy just thought because I was young, and because I was fresh faced, because I didn't wear a suit sometimes when I go into the office, it'd be like, oh, this guy's wrong.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna do it.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, no, actually, that's where I pushed back and we were like, no, you're wrong.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_03: We're trying to do this culture.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one where it was like, yeah, we matched up, and eventually, through war of attrition, prosperity were on my side.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: But it was so hard because I wanted to have my brand, like, I wanted to have it.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: I was talking, they gave it, they actually gave me effectively the keys to or the license to like operate a prosperity London brand.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: But it was just so we were pulling, it's we were pulling in different directions.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I want to.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_03: If I'm putting in all this work on the marketing side of things, I want to repeat, reap the rewards myself.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_03: But inquiries would just go into prosperity from marketing.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I wasn't in the office, I was down in London, they're up there.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: The BDM were just given to people that were in the office maybe sometimes, um, or that were closer to that area.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not a slight at him.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's just we had we just showed up better on the SEO up there.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_03: So it's one of them where it just it got to a point where it's like, right, there's only so so long I can do this.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so that was a big kind of push factor, I guess.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so get yeah.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you went through there were factors in in there when you this is the thing as well, it's it's worth raising a bit raising it because people are going to be listening to this thinking, well, if I go self-employed underneath a brand, St.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: James's place do it, crying out loud.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: Join some should you join St.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: James's place, you go in as a partner at St.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's their brand.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you can now use your own personal brand and build that out, but that's another thing that you've experienced from being underneath prosperity, is you were trying to do things your way and to get your voice and your uh views on things or your approach to advice across and it conflicts with theirs, right?
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you're always going to be in that confliction.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because I went through that as well with with Recruit UK and Financial Planner Life.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: Recruit UK is a recruitment company that says recruit UK.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: It says nothing about financial advice, you know.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're the one of the leading, well, probably say one of the biggest financial advice recruitment businesses in the UK, if not the biggest, right?
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: But nothing said anything about financial advice.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I was like, well, I need something that that that connects me with the profession in a way that builds trust.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I came up with the financial plan of life.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm building that brand and it's mine.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: I feel good about it, and I'm connected to it, you know, because there was too much conflict on the ideas that I had over Recruit UK.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's great for me because I could have a foot in Recruit UK and a foot in my own personal brand, building my you know, my brand.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a lovely place to be.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: And what I love about the financial planning profession is that you could come in, get your qualifications, and within a year, you could become, say, an appointed representative underneath a national firm, but it's your brand.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can control the message that goes out, they control the compliance and everything along those lines.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: And when you get maybe a bit more confidence, you might then go directly authorized and you do it all yourself.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: But the financial planning profession lends itself to people like you that have that entrepreneurial mindset, that idea of how they want to come across, how they want their brand to be seen.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it can be done like that.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a difficult thing to do, it can be done like that.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this traditional approach to advice and his view and his image of advice is changing.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's why we're seeing so many of the younger financial advisors go onto Instagram and promote themselves as coaches, talking a very simple language, not complex, you know, jargon.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to educate and keep it simple and therefore build a relationship.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: And when somebody needs some financial advice, whether it's a you know during the great transition of wealth that we know is all coming and everyone's gonna be absolutely loaded in their primed, aren't you, to be that person, that go-to person.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: And in that position of being self-employed underneath somebody else, there is a conflict.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I can imagine it's higher conflict, people that are a bit younger, because you want to do things differently, because you're seeing things differently.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're not so stuck in your way.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not a slight dig at somebody who's older because it's not about that.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's just you're seeing things from a different perspective and different angles.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's led you in the background to be meeting up with your mate, plotting in the background because you um because your ambition, plotting sounds sinister.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: Not plotting, it's planning.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're thinking about where do you want to go in the future?
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: How are you going to do things differently?
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: Again, from learning from that experience of being underneath a couple of firms that weren't probably culturally aligned to you and your values, right?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you guys came together, you set up master plan.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: So let's tell us a little bit about master plan and what you do there.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: So master plan, I've yeah.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_03: So we, I guess the group in general, a bit of a summary of the group.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Master Plan started in 2015 um through my colleague John, John Draper.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_03: He is mortgages, commercial mortgages, that sort of thing.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_03: And they had an in-house financial planner.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_03: And then in 2020, when that financial planning, there's a bit of a movement there, I think before 2020, well, as the shift, they went directly authorized.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's when my co uh my friend from school, Joe, got involved.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: And it was always, and yeah, the early 2020, and they've really, really done well since then.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_03: The wealth side of things, the kind of financial, the mortgage side of things as well, and like the cross-referrals within the company, really, really good.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_03: I, in March 20, well, March this year, that's when I started conversations.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it was April this year, started conversations about moving to Master Plan.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then through those conversations, and that was just to move towards toward just move my clients really onto Passage New.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_03: And within those conversations, it became clear that there was actually a bit of a need for someone to kind of do a bit of commercial, uh, commercial broking in there.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, yeah, go on then, I'll do that.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds exciting.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_03: I love speaking business to business, and then I've actually, over the past few months, that's snowballed a bit.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_03: So doing a lot of that business to business now.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm kind of in charge of the master plan lending advisors, which is the brand that we're operating under on that side of things.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I tell you what, again, you know, I've said the success of that was cross-referrals between the business, this cross cross-referrals as well, between the high the companies, because obviously we've got a pool of employees at these companies that we can offer financial planning to, but the owners, the high net wealth, ultra-high net worth individuals.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: We've got a new uh family office offering as well from the wealth side, and it's all just yeah, it seems to be coming into play, it seems to all be really working, and we're now at the stage where you know we're ready, we're looking at hiring a couple extra staff uh to support the planners that are gonna come on and join us.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_03: And we just got, yeah, I won't say too much, but again, the plans or the plots, shall we say plots?
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, the plans for the future.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna like I'm so excited.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: Joe has got even more energy than me about it.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: This guy, like, he's so he's so well qualified, he's so well driven.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know whether I know you might have spoken to him about getting him on, but if you get him on, it's gonna be such an interesting one because he is so passionate for it.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, and yeah, I'm just I feel like what we've got going on, like it would be a great person for people to work.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we're we're gonna be flexible, we're gonna hire people, associate planners to come and support, we're gonna hire self-employed planners, service them, employed people, we'll buy books, give them postcode leads.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we're I'm so excited, so so excited.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so yeah, can't really can't complain at all.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_03: Excited for the what the future has to come, man.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's great news, mate.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds to me like step, you know, you've you've gone on a journey, and this is a great example to anybody that's listening.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: How old are you?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: How old are you now, Nick?
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_03: 29 and 30 at Christmas.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: 29, 30 at Christmas, right?
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people, when they are say in their mid-20s or um 30s is a funny one as well, actually.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: I find 30s to be funny.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is that we feel like we should be have nailed it by the time we're 30, right?
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: We should have nailed it, you know.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we have this idea again that we we're not living up to the expectations that we think we should we should have of ourselves, right?
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to like running a business or your career or whatever, right?
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the learning experience that you've had throughout that whole period you can't change, right?
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can't go back.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's what's done is done, but you've gone on a pathway and you've learned it.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's all leading up to a specific point.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now you've joined Master Plan quite recently, you've met up with somebody else who shares the ambition that you have.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't have that connection likely if you didn't go to a pathway that you went on before, right?
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: You've now also planning this, you're planning this future, you're planning this idea of this business that you're going to grow, right?
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: Based on the experience that you've also had working for some other other companies.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a really lovely, wonderful position to be in.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm the I'm 41 in a couple of months.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: So the jealousy that I've got is like you've got 12, 13 years of me on me now to really run, you know, by the time you're my age, I'm in my 50s.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you one thing, right?
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: I thoroughly enjoy my I'm 40 now, fittest, healthiest I've ever been, and I love it.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly feel like I've been reborn at this age, right?
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: I feel fantastic.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: My advice to you now is just during this period of fun, it's growth, it's fun.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: Break as many rules as possible, try as many things as you possibly can and don't be scared to do it.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, this imposter syndrome you all had, embrace it.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like enjoy the chat, enjoy the process of making a few mistakes.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's nice, it's a really nice thing to do.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: When you moved on from um prosperity, then because you were self-employed, you were in a lucky position that you throughout the years of prosperity, you built a client base yourself, right?
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: So they were private clients, they were, you know, uh individuals.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't yeah, individuals, yeah.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you built that book up now.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: When you were self-employed as a registered individual, and I just want to kind of bring this up because being self-employed again, underneath another brand, sometimes a contract can say that you cannot novate the clients, meaning you cannot flick a switch and have the income that you've generated follow you to another company, right?
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: So were you in a lucky position, I suppose, because your dad was connected, or or was it written into your contract?
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they would have to go.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was in the contract.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't anything to do with dad.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's just that's a sign of look, prosperity.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_03: They yeah, I left, and people think, Oh, he's left, he must have left for a reason.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_03: It was because the pool sack pull factor of master plan was so good, but and my own personal issues.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_03: But the contract from Prosperity that was very generous to me, and yeah, I think I was yeah, I'm very grateful for that.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like that definitely should.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't overlook that.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_03: And the whole five years I had there, honestly, it was from where I was to where I left.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_03: So grateful for the whole learning experience.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone that I worked with there.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, really, really good.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_03: And then yeah, to be able to take my clients, it was like such a relief.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_03: So again, thank you for that, Matt and Matt.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's brilliant.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really good.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you've from that though, and I think for anybody listening to this that doesn't really understand that as well, is that you have a recurring income that comes from existing clients that you service, so an ongoing recurring income fee.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: And having that in place sort of takes the pressure off you a little bit, doesn't it?
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_00: Completely.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because it allows you to get an income in so you can focus your attention on obviously making sure that they get the best financial um reviews and they you get their own advice and you're looking after their um looking after their money for them.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it gives you that flexibility and freedom then to look at the other areas of your business.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, if another area of this business is developing this new uh new entry into new clients, which is the commercial side.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is there much difference between you know private clients, Mr.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: and Mrs.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: Smith seeing him in their house to sitting down with you know some ugly bloke like me who runs a business and you're trying to win that business owner over, but also looking for access to their their their staff?
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is that how it works?
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe a bit of an overview of what it's like, the difference between the two.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_03: So the difference I'd say the difference, there's a few, there's a few small, subtle differences in kind of say, like you say, you're still going through the same process, but there's certain things, certain technical things that, yeah, there are differences.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_03: But I'd say ultimately it's it's pretty similar, to be honest, Sam.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like it is really pretty similar.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's all about going and whether it's talking about in the corporate side, whether it's talking to those clients about or to the employees about their own personal wealth, that sort of thing, which you do on you still try and do on a bespoke level, but it's not as drilling down as you are with, say, an ultra-high net worth.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_03: But it's all just again, just about building trust and just asking them what what worries them about finance, because everyone's got their financial worries, and it's just extracting that data from them and then using your head a bit and being like, right, yeah, this is what I would do to support that.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_03: But in between extracting that data, or what during extracting that data, you're building the trust and you're asking them questions about the self, which means that in their head, they're they're like, Oh, yeah, this guy, I trust this guy.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think I trust this guy.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_03: And that's half the work done.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_03: So, but yeah, I'd say it's quite similar.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_00: So is it harder to pin down business owners than it is to pin down Mr.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: and Mrs.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: James?
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely on that side of things.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think because they're in that they're ever, or it's everyone knows that they'll have a lot of money, so or typically, and then if they're dealing with their accountant, accountants typically have good connections with IFAs or financial planners.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, I'd say it is it's more challenging, yeah.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_03: And also maybe it's less challenging in a way, because the people with more if you're talking about business money or say workplace pension schemes, for instance, it's almost like it's the company's money.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas life savings for a couple, they're like, right, this is my one chance.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_03: I need to get this right.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, but I'd say, yeah, all in all, whether it's private individuals or companies, trust.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_03: Earn that trust, and you'll be you'll be good.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: That would be my advice.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_00: And what does you know, you're obviously very excited about where you're going with Master Plan.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about growing the business and and and and growing the team and everything like that.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what does the next six to 12 months look like?
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_00: What's high on your agenda for the next six to 12 months?
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you what do you think will be happening that's gonna be really exciting for you as a business?
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I think the next six months, we're actually, without yeah, without revealing too much, we're getting to a stage where we're in the position where we're actually going to hire an operation, someone to run the operations just to take the pressure off Joe and the other lads running the actual wealth side.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_03: We've recently hired two staff people, but we're all about getting ourselves to a position over the next six months where we are ready, we have those processes in place where we just get those new advisors bringing their books in, bringing their books.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_03: We know there's retiring advisors, we were building money, we're gonna get finance in to buy retiring advisors, and basically we're gonna give people an option to either come to our place um and carry on as self-employed, or you know, we'll we're an alternative.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to sell your clients to one of the big ones, then yeah, that's fine.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_03: But if you want to sell your clients to someone that's gonna give that personal service and probably the service they used to, I feel like that's where we can kind of fit a mold as well.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, exciting times.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Who knows where we'll be in 18 months?
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Hopefully, with another office in Berm, you know, a third office.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_03: We've just opened the one down here in London.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's all exciting, exciting times.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um good man, excellent.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really pleased that you've you know you've found your path.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it just shows that sometimes we can sort of hit a bit of a dead end in roles, whether it's you know, working under the wrong person, you know, in unfortunate circumstances which happened, you know, with your mum and how you were treated within that role almost turned you off.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a younger guy who was really keen, really interested, to the point that, you know, during school you were going and actually working in some of these organizations.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, literally.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: To then throw yourself in the deep end being a self-employed financial advisor, going through the, you know, the knock the cold cooling and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, building up your client bank so eventually running your own business because you needed to scratch that itch, which is your entrepreneurial itch of running your own thing and doing it your way.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you're doing all of that before the age of 30 years old.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, hats off to you.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's absolute inspiration.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to loads more of you guys doing this and girls doing this because it's absolutely needed.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the enthusiasm that you have for wanting to change things and come across in a different way.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really, really, really important as well.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_00: What was your business partner's name again?
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Joe Young.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Joe, so I've spoken to Joe and Joe's gonna come on the podcast.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll tell you what we'll do is when I get him on the podi a little, we'll talk a bit more about the future and his plans and all of that kind of stuff to really elaborate on what you guys are actually doing because I think it'll be a lovely little two-parter, actually.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_03: And you'll get it properly from him.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm more, yeah, more talking about what's happened the past 10 years, but he's the next 10 years.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be great.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love the sound of that.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a massive, massively interested in in I love getting involved with startups and my experience around how to attract the right types of individuals, um, especially when we're doing with Financial Panel Life um podcast, but we've got the Financial Panel Life Academy that's coming soon as well, um, where we bring in firms of all shapes and sizes to benefit from how to attract people on a very low, low, low recruitment fee.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not competing so much with the likes of your St.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_00: James's place, etc.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds like it'd be perfect for us, Sam.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's coming out soon.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So watch this space.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_00: But brilliant.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, thank you so much today.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know you've got a meeting now, but thank you so much today, and um really, really appreciate it.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh good luck with everything, my man.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_03: All right, thanks, man.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me on, and yeah, good luck with you as well, and Sam.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_03: You're smashing it in this podcast as well, mate.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Keep up the good work.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, buddy.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate that.