Latest / Research Insights, a Society of Actuaries Podcast / International Women's Day - March 8, 2025

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International Women's Day - March 8, 2025 · Research Insights, a Society of Actuaries Podcast

0:04
Sherry Chan: Hello everyone. It's time for another episode of
0:06
the Society of Actuaries Research Insights Podcast. This
0:10
is Sherry Chan, and I'll be your guest host for today's special
0:13
episode. So let me first introduce myself. I am the Chief
0:16
Strategy Officer of an AI InsurTech startup called Atidot
0:21
is a CNBC top 30 ensure tech in the world. I'm also a Society of
0:25
Actuaries board member and the original co founder and a
0:29
current board member of Advocates Actuaries. We have a
0:32
very special episode today, one that focuses on celebrating
0:35
women's achievements and observation of International
0:39
Women's Day, which is, of course, March 8. And our guests
0:43
are two very accomplished female actuaries with international
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representation and in the spirit of International Women's Day who
0:51
have been active volunteers and who I've had, or have the great
0:55
pleasure of being fellow board members with on the Society of
0:58
Actuaries board. So today we welcome Karen Burnett, FSA and
1:02
FCEA, newly appointed Vice President of pension solutions
1:06
at CAAT Pension Plan. She has nearly 30 years of experience in
1:09
the pension industry. Karen serves on the Society of
1:12
Actuaries board of directors with me. Very happy to have her
1:16
as a fellow board member and as a member of the Association of
1:19
Canadian Pension Management, or ACPM Ontario Council. We also
1:25
have Si, Xie, FSA, CERA FCIA. Si is a member of SOA, is
1:32
actuary of the future section Council and the International
1:35
section Council. And a former SOA board member who I actually
1:39
had the great pleasure to also be on the board with currently
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leads an InsurTech firm called reimagine brisk based in Hong
1:45
Kong. Karen, Si, welcome, and great to have you as part of the
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Women's History Month this month. And how are you ladies
1:53
today doing?
1:54
Karen Burnett: Thank you, Sherry. I am doing wonderfully.
1:57
I am so excited to be part of this podcast, and I can't wait
2:00
to get into the questions.
2:02
Si Xie: Great, Hi, thank you, Sherry, very excited to be here
2:05
today.
2:06
Sherry Chan: Yeah, great to have you across international borders
2:09
there, the other side of the world.
2:12
Okay, so before we get started, I wanted to make sure our
2:15
listeners know where they can find information. On the SOA
2:18
Research Institute. You can go to soa.org Click on the Research
2:22
Institute, and from there, you can produce a wide range of
2:26
topics. So all right, let's get started. Karen, let's start with
2:30
you. Can you share a bit about your background and upbringing
2:33
and what inspired or motivated you to pursue the actual, real
2:36
field?
2:38
Karen Burnett: Happy to! So growing up, my family took a lot
2:42
of road trips. My dad, who was an engineer, would keep us
2:46
entertained with math problems. He taught us how to use the
2:49
Pythagorean theorem, and at the time, he had a wrist watch that
2:53
had a calculator built in. So we got to cheat a little bit, and
2:57
my sister and I would sit in the back seat solving equations for
3:00
hours. Looking back, I think those road trips sparked my love
3:04
for math. At first, I really thought I wanted to be a math
3:08
teacher, but as time went on, I really wanted to be able to
3:12
apply my skills in a practical way. I knew I didn't want to
3:15
spend 40 years solving the same problems over and over. So one
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day, I went to my guidance counselor, and I asked the
3:24
question, what other careers are there out there that will use my
3:28
math skills and my love for math, but I don't want to be an
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accountant? So she went to the bookshelf and grabbed this giant
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book of occupations. She flipped through the pages and asked me,
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have you ever heard of an actuary? I said no, but I read
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up on what an actuary did, and I was intrigued. The book didn't
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mention how long it would take for exams and how tough they
3:49
were, but once I started, there was no going back. And
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throughout my career, I have as an actuary, gotten that variety
3:57
that I was so looking for in my current role at cat pension
4:02
plan, there's so much variety. I work with organizations across
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the country, understanding their unique challenges and helping
4:09
them turn the challenges into opportunities. It's very
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exciting. There's so many different variables across the
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employers, and I feel that helping them to drive better
4:21
outcomes, but also improving retirements for Canadians is so
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incredibly rewarding.
4:28
Sherry Chan: So definitely, every day is a new day, right?
4:30
Karen,
4:31
Karen Burnett: Exactly, no problem ever gets repeated!
4:34
Sherry Chan: I want to see that watch one day. That's a very
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interesting watch there. It might make a great gift idea for
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Pi Day for somebody.
4:43
Karen Burnett: It's an antique at this point.
4:46
Sherry Chan: Si, tell us about your background and your
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professional journey. What do you love about being an actuary?
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Si Xie: Well, my background, my path to be an actuary, is very
4:57
different from Karen's. I was born in Guang, China, also known
5:01
as Canton. My sister and I had the opportunity to study in the
5:05
UK. She pursued actuarial science, and I chose to study
5:10
mathematics and statistics. After graduation, we both moved
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to Canada, and as a math graduate, I was so sure what
5:19
career path to take, honestly and because of my sister, I
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submitted one job application to an actuarial software company,
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and to my surprise, I got accepted, and I've never looked
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back since. And what I love about being an actuary is the
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instant credibility. It brings people automatically assume that
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I am smart and analytical, which I see firsthand when meeting
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with investors and potential partners, and I really enjoy
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that that's like really brought us to my profession. And there's
5:54
also a wealth of transferable skills that activists can bring
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our core analytical and critical thinking ability enables us to
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tackle various business problems effectively, and I do want more
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actuaries to embrace that
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Sherry Chan: That's quite the path. Didn't start with a watch,
6:15
but very, very interesting indeed, you and I share, you
6:19
know, ancestral backgrounds, in the sense that both our
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ancestors are from Canton China, and so I always want to say your
6:26
last name with the Cantonese way of saying it, instead of
6:28
Mandarin. So it's great to have you here Si. Thank you. Are
6:32
there women who have been particularly influential or
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inspiring to you? Both of you, either personally or
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professionally? Karen, let's start with you first,
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Karen Burnett: Sure, I have been very fortunate to have many
6:44
inspirational women in my life, but thinking about two who
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immediately come to mind are people that I've worked with in
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my past. One is Ophelia Isabel, and the other is Karen
6:55
Figueredo. Ophelia actually recruited me from the University
6:59
of Waterloo as a co op student, and from that moment on, she's
7:02
been part of my life. She's constantly challenging me to
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push beyond what I think I'm capable of, and has been my
7:08
biggest supporter, even when I doubt myself. She's also been a
7:12
very strong role model, showing me just how far female actuaries
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can go and how our skills can be applied in so many different
7:20
ways, not just from a technical math standpoint. With Karen, she
7:25
was the first person I worked with when I joined Towers parent
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way back in the early 2000s and she played a huge role in
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shaping how I approach my career. She not only taught me
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how to apply my technical knowledge, but also helped me to
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understand the integrity, responsibility and
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professionalism that comes with being an actuary, the level of
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trust that's placed in actuaries, and the impact we can
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have on society, is something I have never taken for granted
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thanks to Karen.
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Sherry Chan: So Karens are definitely role models. In my
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mind.
8:00
Karen Burnett: Definitely, yes.
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Sherry Chan: Si. How about you? Any inspirational woman you
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would like to tell us about?
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Si Xie: Yes, I think, like most people, I draw inspiration from
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kind of those around me every day, like my mother, my
8:14
grandmother, my sister, my friends and colleagues. But
8:18
throughout my life, I've always loved watching the Olympics.
8:22
It's incredible to see how humans constantly challenge our
8:26
limits. But even more inspiring are the stories behind the
8:31
athletes, their resilience, persistence and the unwaving
8:35
belief in themselves. And one of my favorite athletes is the
8:39
Chinese shot putter. Her name is Gong Lijiao. Her path to the
8:44
Olympic glory was really long and challenging, and she had
8:48
multiple setbacks and injuries. And what really strike me is
8:52
that she never lost sight of her dream. And finally, after 21
8:57
years of training and hard work, she finally won the gold medal
9:02
at her fourth Olympics in Tokyo, and just she had this powerful,
9:06
emotional kind of interviews. And I cry whenever I watch her
9:11
interviews. And she famously said two things that really
9:15
stuck with me. One is, I never give up and I never will. The
9:19
other one is, chase your dreams. You never know when they might
9:24
come true, and it they really serve as a reminder to kind of
9:28
keep pushing me through challenges. And the irony also
9:32
is, whenever I watch the Olympians, the number of years
9:37
of training and the hard work, it's just uncomparable. And that
9:41
self belief is very, very touching, and it's it really
9:45
resonates. And going back to our profession, I mean, we often
9:50
complain about, like, five years, five or six years of
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exams being too long, and we complain, and imagine I keep
9:58
trying. 21 years and without knowing if you ever make it,
10:02
that's and it's such a niche kind of sport that shot put,
10:06
there's no money to be made, and it's really like a dream is a
10:11
belief. So I thought something that I want to share with all of
10:16
us is something that I think it can all help us.
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Sherry Chan: Yeah, I think that's a great story of
10:21
perseverance. I also love the fact that one of your role
10:22
models is someone that you don't personally know, right? That you
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know we're so often accustomed to thinking that role models are
10:26
just those that we know in our immediate circle, but you know,
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those who we see in the news or other places can be role models
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for us too. So that's really great. Karen, what are some of
10:44
the most significant challenges you've encountered in your
10:46
career, and how did you overcome them?
10:50
Karen Burnett: So one of my biggest challenges, and probably
10:54
something that I'm sure many women face, is balancing work
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and family, but also pushing back against misguided
11:00
assumptions from colleagues, and I'll take one particular
11:04
instance that I encountered. It was one year where I had made it
11:09
clear to my manager early in the year that I was ready to take
11:12
the next step in my career, and my sites were set on a
11:15
promotion, but during a conversation midway through the
11:18
year, we were setting the expectations for the end of the
11:21
year my goals, and I told him I was ready to reach the next
11:24
level. And the response was, I thought you were prioritizing
11:29
your family right now, not your career. And I was really taken
11:32
aback. And I thought those two are not mutually exclusive. And
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needless to say, the conversation that day did not
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end very well for either of us, but luckily, I was actually on
11:45
vacation the following week, and during that time, I thought long
11:49
and hard about our meeting, and when I returned, I was ready
11:53
with a counter argument, one that made it clear what my
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priorities were, and that they Both included career and family,
12:02
I laid out my progress, highlighted my contributions
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that I had made, and proposed ways that my manager and I could
12:07
work together to ensure that I was meeting and exceeding
12:10
expectations. And this isn't the first time I've encountered
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biases like these, but it's the one that really stood out,
12:17
because it was a very difficult meeting. I felt very hurt, but I
12:21
was able to turn it around, and I did get that promotion at the
12:24
end of the year. So keeping your goal in mind, but meeting
12:28
somebody where they are is also very important.
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Sherry Chan: That's a great story. Yeah, obviously those
12:34
listening in can't see us right now, but there's been some
12:37
applause on this, on this podcast, after Karen concluded
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her story. So I think we could probably have a whole different,
12:45
you know, podcast on microaggression, but that is
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definitely a classic example of of a scenario there. So, but I'm
12:51
glad the ending was happy. I'm glad you, you know, were able to
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convey that both can be achieved and it's not mutually exclusive.
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So good for you. Si in the face of obstacles, what strategies
13:03
have you used to achieve your goals?
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Si Xie: One of my mottos is being comfortable or feeling
13:09
uncomfortable. I think we need to accept the fact that
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obstacles are inevitable. It is impossible to sail through life
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without encountering storms, and this mindset really allowed me
13:22
to stay positive, to go through the process, kind of when facing
13:27
challenges and beyond that, I believe strategies should be
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situational. So if I say I face a difficult project at work,
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especially with tight timelines or a high risk of failure, three
13:43
elements come into play for me, trust, persistence and
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ownership. I think building the trust within the team and having
13:54
trust in their ability is crucial. As a leader, I focus on
13:58
creating a safe and accountable environment where the team can
14:03
work together towards a common goal, rather than playing the
14:07
blame game. Persistence is also key that we have the team to
14:11
break down the project into manageable tasks and tackle them
14:15
one by one, by staying committed even when the progress seems
14:19
slow. It's important to move us forward, so just keep kind of
14:24
moving forward, and finally, take ownership of my own
14:28
responsibilities and the project success is vital. Embracing
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accountability and lead by example is probably the core to
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the success, and everyone needs to take ownership and really
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drive the sense of commitment. I think those have served me well
14:48
in the past. Whenever I face difficult projects or
14:51
challenges, I am a lot less qualified and equipped to share
14:56
my strategy when dealing with family challenges. Uh, but in
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general, my core strategy is, or at least I try to, is practicing
15:07
empathy and and this really involve active listening and try
15:11
to understand the perspectives from the other side and
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encourage open and honest communication. Might not always
15:21
work, and we always have to control our emotion, and
15:24
hopefully we can work towards to find a solution.
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Sherry Chan: That's great. So TPO, trust, persistence and
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ownership, I'm going to have to remember that Si and what you
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said about if, if something's not challenging you then, well,
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the way I see it is, if something's not challenging you,
15:43
then you're not really stretching yourself. So
15:45
challenges, obstacles, it's always good to, you know, be a
15:48
part of that, because that's, that's the, I think, exact
15:52
definition of stretching yourself and making sure that
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you're doing something that is beyond your current capabilities
15:58
to grow. Okay, so Karen, before we close, I want to ask both of
16:03
you, you know, very similar question, but Karen, I'll start
16:05
with you, and this is more of a reflection back. So if you could
16:10
give advice to young women aspiring to pursue their goals,
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what would it be?
16:15
Karen Burnett: Foremost I would say, stay strong, stay focused
16:19
and believe in yourself. You can achieve anything that you set
16:23
your mind to. Take a look at the people around you, ask yourself,
16:28
Who inspires you, who has the qualities and aspirations that
16:32
you admire, and more importantly, who shares the same
16:35
drive to achieve their goals and become friendly with them. Spend
16:38
time with them. Learn from them. If you can build a mentor
16:43
mentoring relationship, that's great. These are the people that
16:48
will challenge you, support you and push you to grow. I found
16:52
myself I couldn't do it on my own, or I wouldn't have gotten
16:55
it as far as I did on my own. Those mentor mentoring
16:58
relationships were really important at cat. I also try to
17:03
create a collaborative environment where everyone feels
17:06
heard and valued, and I encourage all to not be afraid,
17:12
to speak up and present their ideas. I find more often than
17:17
not, they'll be surprised about how far it'll take them.
17:21
Sherry Chan: That's great. You know, it reminds me what you're
17:24
saying. Reminds me of how we start becoming the people that
17:27
we surround ourselves most with, right? So I think it's so
17:30
important to be around those that you want to emanate and
17:33
that you aspire to be. Because I think just from proximity, some
17:38
of that transfers to you. So great, great advice. Si, what
17:41
about you? If you could go back and give your younger self some
17:44
advice? What would it be?
17:47
Si Xie: There's so many things I can say to myself so I can make
17:50
less mistakes throughout my life. If I were to just give one
17:54
advice to myself or to any young people, it would be, no one is
17:59
perfect, and we have a chance, but we have a chance to be
18:03
better every day. This means having a growth mindset and
18:07
embrace setbacks as opportunities to learn and to
18:11
improve. And the second part of this advice is about
18:15
forgiveness. When we see flaws in others or wrongdoing in
18:20
others, we should forgive them, because they are also learning.
18:24
Everyone is on their own journey for growth and understanding
18:29
this help us to be more compassionate and supportive. Is
18:32
not easy, but it is necessary.
18:36
Sherry Chan: Yeah, I think compassion should extend to
18:38
ourselves too, right? So,
18:40
Si Xie: Yes, absolutely,
18:41
Sherry Chan: yes, yes. So
18:44
Si Xie: Sometimes we too hard on ourselves.
18:46
Sherry Chan: Definitely, definitely be at fault for that
18:48
one too. And I liked what you said. It was full circle, every
18:52
day is a new day. And Karen started her remarks with how she
18:56
wanted every day to be a different day. So Well, thank
18:59
you, ladies. Karen, Si thanks for stopping by today to talk to
19:03
us about your professional journeys.
19:05
Karen Burnett: Thank you so much, Sherry. It's been my
19:07
absolute pleasure.
19:09
Si Xie: Well, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure
19:12
to speak and learn from both of you.
19:14
Sherry Chan: Well, likewise, definitely and listeners, please
19:18
feel free to share this podcast on your social media with others
19:21
who are interested in the SOA podcast. And if you like, use
19:24
the hashtag actuary research, one word so others interested
19:28
can find it, and please send us your feedback, comments,
19:31
suggestions via email at research insights with an S on
19:36
the end@soa.org and thanks again to our guests today, Karen
19:41
Burnett and Si Xie for spending time with us. Okay, everyone,
19:45
thanks for tuning in this week. It has never been a better time
19:48
to be an actuary for research insights podcast, I'm Sherry
19:51
Chan for the Society of Actuaries Research Institute.
19:58
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20:01
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