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Leaving the Safety of Your Career to Follow Your Heart with Courtney Schulnick · Reclaiming Consciousness

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Mindfulness is basically awareness.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: It's the ability to be aware in the present moment and as you know as much as possible, not to judge our experiences.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: But the formal mindfulness practice isn't for everybody, but there's a lot of scientific research and more and more so in the legal community showing that there are real benefits.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: There are real benefits when we regularly commit to the practice.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: So it's exciting.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot going on right now from a neuroscience standpoint, where it's not only people like me saying it's helpful, but you can measure through scientific research.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: You can actually see, you can demonstrate how beneficial this can be.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm Elise Bassine, trauma and breath work expert and creator of the Metamorphosis Method, the only methodology bridging the gap between spiritual healing and clinical trauma work.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: In this podcast, you'll discover my unique perspective on trauma healing and how it is the gateway to fully reclaiming your consciousness.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: You'll hear stories and teachings that expand your mind as you discover how every relationship challenge, business block, or limiting pattern is an invitation to reclaim the parts of your consciousness you unknowingly gave away.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Get ready to go deep.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Now let's dive in.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome back to the show.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: So this week I'm having a conversation with Courtney Schulnick, who is actually a local Philadelphia girl.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: But I met her online.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: We are in the same mastermind, or we were.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: I met her at a time where she was starting her own business and wanting to leave her career of being a lawyer for a really long time, probably like 10 or 15 years.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: So when we had this conversation, she had just left her job and she has her own business teaching mindfulness to lawyers and in different offices.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: And her story is just really inspiring and raw and real, just you know, in the jumping off of that cliff.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: And I know that a lot of people can relate to that.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: I can certainly relate to it, and it's something that is really important to hear other people's perspectives on that, especially for those of you that are thinking about taking that leap.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: So I think you're gonna love this conversation with Courtney.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: Just a couple announcements.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: We have the Metamorphosis, the next round starting next week on Monday.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: And it is the last time that you can jump in at this price and this length of time.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: So the next time I run the metamorphosis is probably going to be in the late spring, early summer.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to be changing the format.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be a little longer and the price is going to go up.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to be changing it to three months instead of two months.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: And then the price is going to go up to reflect that as well.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: So if you want to jump in at this price, which is going to be, you know, significantly less, then now's the time to jump in because it is going to be changing after this.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to give everyone the heads up on that.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: And then the certification, the metamorphosis method certification is starting in mid-February, which again, I'm so excited about that because that's my favorite thing in the entire world.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: So my methodology is so unique because it closes the gap between spiritual and somatic healing and clinical, therapeutic, and mental health practices.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: So my whole perspective on this is that breath work, you guys know I've been in the space of breath work for 24 years at this point.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: I've watched it go from something that nobody ever heard of to now being a well-known thing in the wellness space.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I think is widely misunderstood is that breath work has the ability to bring up real trauma and core wounds from childhood.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: And if the breath work facilitator is not equipped to handle that, then the practice can fall flat at best and can re-traumatize people at worst.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I feel so strongly about giving the tools to handle trauma and how to dissolve it when it comes up.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, my facilitators leave my certification feeling incredibly confident to handle whatever comes up in their practice when they're facilitating breath work and working with clients in whatever way they do.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: So if you already are a breath work facilitator or you work with clients in any capacity, this is something that will deepen your skill set and give you the ability to feel confident to work with any type of client and take them to a real transformation and create a permanent result.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: If it's something that is piquing your interest and you want to know more about it, just reach out to me.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: I like to get on a call with everybody who is interested in the program, just so I can talk to you about it to see if it's a fit for you and also to explain to you how you could fit it in and integrate it into what you're already doing to make what you're already doing better in the sense that your clients will get better results, but also so you can attract a wider audience and to start to attract people because of the results that people get, and they'll refer other people to you.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: And that's usually what happens.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: So reach out to me if you'd like to hop on a call and chat about it.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: And also for the person who, like if you know you want to work with clients, but you haven't yet jumped into that, this is the perfect thing for you, also, because you will leave this program feeling confident and ready to work with clients to take them to a real permanent transformation.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: So that is everything.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the episode with Courtney and please reach out to me with any questions.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to rate and review the show if you haven't already, and send me a screenshot of your review, and you will receive a credit of$250 to anything new in my world.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: So if you're thinking about joining anything new, the metamorphosis or the certification, definitely leave a review and you will get that$250 credit.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm sending you guys so much love, and I will talk to you soon.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Hi, everyone.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the show.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to introduce you to today's guest and for a conversation because I know it's going to be a good one.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: So today I have Courtney Schulnick on the show, who is a mindfulness teacher, and we've actually met in person, believe it or not.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: And we have like mutual friends.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: She is a Philly girl, and we're connected in many ways.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: And I'm really excited to have her on the show.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: So welcome, Courtney.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to be here.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: So I would love to just dive into your story a little bit.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: And I know you just had like a big transition in your life.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, why don't you just tell us a little bit about you and kind of like how you got to where you are now?
7:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: So my experience, it's sort of like it's come full circle.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: I ended up going to law school through kind of like a process of being uncomfortable with not knowing what's next, like wanting very much liking a schedule or knowing that we're going to go from A to B and B to C.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: And I took some time off after college.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: And I've always liked being a student that I knew, but I wasn't really sure law school was for me.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: But I have quite a few attorneys in the family who said, look, if nothing else, you're going to get a great education.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: It's going to teach you a way to think you can carry into whatever you do.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: So fast forward three years after having graduated from college, I go to law school.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: And first year, sometimes people like it.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: But very early on, I was kind of like, I'm not sure.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Does anyone really like it?
8:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, I always feel like law school is kind of like the hardest thing ever.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm right there with you.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: I found it to be, and I'm a good student, like in terms of self-discipline.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was the most challenging in terms of just keeping up with the pace and really not having a whole lot of time to juggle.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: At least this was my experience, not having a lot of time to juggle in anything else with the demands of law school.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: But I I recently reconnected with people who were in my class in law school who said I actually enjoyed it.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: Wait, where did you go to law school, by the way?
9:08
SPEAKER_01: I went to Rutgers.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: I was living in not too far from you.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: I was living in Old City and it was an easy commute.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: And prior to that, I had gotten into a school in New York, but I met my now husband who had gotten a job here in in Philly, and I didn't want to be doing the long distance thing.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: So I put it off another year, got into Rutgers and started.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: But I it didn't come easily to me.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: And there were a lot of there were a lot of parts of that I did enjoy.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: I've always liked challenge, whether it was on the tennis court or scholastically, but there were a lot of parts that didn't come naturally to me.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: But I've never quit anything.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: And it was one of those things where when you think you're new at something and you're it's not quite familiar, I kept on thinking, okay, maybe by my second year it'll get easier.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: And it didn't really get easier.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: I think it got a little harder on some level because of the classes I took.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: And then my third year, then you start, or at least for me, I start worrying about the bar exams coming up.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: And so it was just sort of like one hurdle after another.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: But I got through it.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: And after I passed the bar, I began working in the legal field.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: And again, there were certain parts that I really enjoyed.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: I I've always liked helping people on some level.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: So you do a great deal of work where you can help people and ease what can be a really daunting process, but there were still so many moving pieces that didn't really land for me.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: And they actually stirred up a lot of anxiety.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: I I had for a very long time struggled with anxiety, and I had worked with a therapist since before college to better manage stress and anxiety.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: And the demands of the profession kind of heightened what I had already experienced, but brought it to a new level as I became a more seasoned attorney.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: I took on more responsibilities, I took on bigger cases, a bigger caseload, and I juggled in a family.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: I got married, I had multiple children.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: And so you find yourself with what was already, for me at least, a very challenging career juggling in all the other parts of your life.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: And I just felt like I crash and burn.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: So at the suggestion of the therapist who I had been treating with for many, many years for anxiety, she suggested that I look into what's known as the mindfulness-based stress reduction program.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know about you, but like when you're barely able to make things like ends meet because of how many different directions you're pulled in, if you're just gonna add something else to your plate, you're probably gonna push it away.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: And so while mindfulness sounded really great on so many levels, I thought I can't possibly squeeze one more thing into my schedule.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: At that point, I had a son who was three or four, and I had our second son who was about a year old.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: And so working full-time and trying to keep up with their schedules and be present for my husband, I put it off, but I bought some books where I could learn about mindfulness and get some practices that I could weave into my day.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: And then fast forward another year or so, I didn't really find ease.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: I would practice, but there wasn't a sense of, I guess a commitment like to really deepen my own practice.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: So I finally decided to enroll in the foundational eight-week program known as the MBSR program that was offered at Jefferson in the city, the Center for Mindfulness.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: And about three weeks into the program, I started to notice a shift in how I was feeling.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: And again, what I like to explain to people is all the stressors were still very much in my life, like having to perform at work, having to show up for my children and help them, having to show up for my husband and friends and all those pieces were still there.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: Plus, on top of that, here I was devoting two and a half hours a week to this class that met weekly for eight weeks.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: But I started to learn just how often I got in my own way.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: I started to recognize how hard I was on myself and how, in a sense, I created extra suffering by the rigid demands that I put on myself.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're already there on many levels from the demands of my profession and what have you in my personal life.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: But we do a really good job of compounding them by these even bigger demands that we put on ourselves.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: So I started to understand myself, the nature of my mind.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: And I also learned practices and tools that helped me to create healthier and more nourishing habits that really supported me in not only my role as a litigator, but my role as a mom, my relationship with my husband, and whatever else just seemed to come up in life.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: So that that really was when I took a sense of accountability and enrolled in the MBSR program.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: That's when I started to really notice and experience the benefits of regular mindfulness practice.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: And then obviously you kept going, right?
15:01
SPEAKER_00: Because then you became a teacher and all of that.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I kept going and I joke around.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: So I have three sons.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: And at the time, the law firm where I was working, as big as a firm as it was, they did not have locks on the doors to individual offices.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: Like we all had our individual offices, and anyone could walk in at any time.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: And here I was, I would have to, this may be too much information for some of the listeners, but I had I had been nursing, so I had to pump in my office.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: No, I had the same issue actually in my office because I was doing that when I was a school counselor.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: And I used to have to like go down to the nurse's office because no one would put a lock on my door.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: I think actually by the time I had my second kid, they eventually put a lock on the door, but it was like there was no lock.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: And I guess there's the rules and whatnot, but in terms of what it meant for me and how busy I was, like it wasn't like how frequently I had to do it.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like I was gonna step away from my work three times a day to take care of business.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: So I started putting a sign on my door saying, do not enter pumping in session.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: So everybody knew, don't go there.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: And then by the time I enrolled in the MBSR, my middle son was older.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't having to pump, but I was now meditating.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: I in the middle of the day, I would, as part of the MBSR program, is known as home practice, and it's typically a recording of a guided practice.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: And just given how early I was leaving in the morning for work and how late I was working and doing whatever for the family, the best time for me, and when I noticed more anxiety coming up, was in the midst of the busy day.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: So I would meditate in my office and I changed my sign from pumping in session to do not enter meditation in session.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: And this was more than 10 years ago.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: So people see that now.
17:05
SPEAKER_01: I think it's not as taboo, but at the time and in the space where I was working, it wasn't openly shared that I would have just kept the pumping and sessions on there.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I felt very strongly about like I wanted to give it a voice.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: I wanted people to see it because it was transformational for me.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: I had some of my peers who I was really close with, and they knew how much I was grappling with anxiety, and they noticed a change in me.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: And I was openly discussing with them how amazing these practices were, but I wanted to get out there.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: Like I wanted them to not only know that I was doing it, but I wanted it to ripple out into the workplace because I was thinking, if this is this powerful for me, could you imagine what it could do collectively for the firm?
17:59
SPEAKER_01: If everybody, I'm not saying like they had to sit in LOTUS pose for 30, 40, or even 15 minutes, but if they were taking little steps to just uh disconnect from all it is that we do as attorneys or any type of professional or human being and just drop in to really notice how we are experiencing this moment, it would make a profound change, not only in the professional sector, but the world as a whole.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: So I started openly talking about what it was I was doing in being in this MBSR program.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: And one associate in particular said, I think you should give a little lecture on this.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: Like maybe in the legal profession, we have what's known as continuing legal education, where you're required every year to meet a certain accreditation of credits to stay active in whatever state it is you're practicing.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: And so I got approved at the firm to give like a lunch and learn, a one-hour workshop.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: And at that point, I had been practicing for a year.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: I felt comfortable, like I understood.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: I understood what mindfulness was.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: I experienced the benefits.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: I felt comfortable speaking about it, but I didn't feel like a teacher, like a qualified teacher.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: But anyhow, I went and gave the presentation, and the response was overwhelming.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: It was, I got such positive feedback, and I enjoyed it more than any other legal related work I had ever handled.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: I never really felt comfortable in a courtroom, like working in the courtroom and arguing.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: I did a good job at it, but it wasn't my comfort zone.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: But this getting in front of a room and talking about what mindfulness is and really understanding, like being able to relate to the stressors that are inherent to the legal profession, but also understanding on a bigger scale, those who work in a high pressure industry.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: Like I felt like I could, even if it landed for just one person in the room, I say I was that person who was just so stressed and anxious out of my mind that I was desperate.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: I was desperate to find some type of support.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: So that was the beginning of me understanding that this is something I want to pursue.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: This is something that I want to teach, that I want to not only deepen my own personal practice, but I want to deepen my understanding so that I can help others.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: So I continued on at Jefferson.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: I took what's known as the teaching practicum.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: And you retake the MBSR as you're taking this teaching practicum.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: And then I had the honor of co-teaching, it was an internship with the associate director at the Center for Mindfulness, Elise Moss.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: Then I decided this is a theme.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: I think this comes up for a lot of overachievers or type A people.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: I was several years in and I thought, I'm not good enough yet.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm not ready to take this show on the road.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, this happens to so many women, by the way.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like that's the number one thing that like my clients will say to me is like, well, I feel like I just have to like do this one other thing, or I feel like I just need to like learn this one other thing.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: I think back to when I was our oldest is a freshman in high school, and he does really well, but he's not his hardware, it is different.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: Like he could just look at something before a test and he's like, I got it, I'm good.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: I was up until the very minute going over these little cheat sheets and re-reviewing and requizzing myself.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: I've always thought like it's not enough.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: I could do more.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: And so it's these are the types of patterns you start to mindfulness helps you to identify in yourself.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: And so, anyhow, I retook the MBSR again.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: So, and each time I would probably take it 10 more times.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Because every time I take it as like a participant, I learn, you see something from a different angle.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: But in terms of, I finally felt like, okay, I can teach this, I understand it, I'm comfortable.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Wait, I just want to ask one question.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: At that point, like when you felt like you could teach it, did you have the notion that you would want to like eventually do it full time and leave law?
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Or was that not like in your mind yet?
22:23
SPEAKER_01: No, I knew it.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: I knew it in my heart.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: And I struggled with it because again, this scene, like I didn't know if it would be enough as a wife, as a mother, and someone who contributes financially.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: I started thinking, what if it doesn't amount to what I bring in working as a successful attorney?
22:43
SPEAKER_01: So I started to box myself up.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: I knew in my heart, I knew that this is something I love.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: This is something that I feel like I can help people with far more than I feel like I could help people from a legal angle.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: And I think the what-ifs held me back.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: And so I was straddled between the two.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: I ended up transitioning to be a part-time attorney, which I don't really think it exists in the legal world.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: Like you're you're at the mercy of the life of your cases.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: And when something rams up and you have to go to trial, you're definitely not part-time.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: But I was so passionate about it that I found a way to during the pandemic, I became I became a teacher.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: I joined the team of teachers at Jefferson.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, I started my own independent business so that I could work one-on-one with professionals, with individuals.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: And so I had all these different my husband jokes, like my wife switched to part-time, but here she's working like full-time plus because I didn't want to quite let go of the security of the of the legal practice.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: And I I enjoyed certain parts of it.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: I had some really nice clients.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: There's some parts of it I didn't enjoy, but the mindfulness practice actually helped me to find more joy in the work as a litigator and the things that the things that stirred up some agitation or stress for me.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: I learned, A, I learned how I actually heightened that.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: I created some of those monsters.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: And B, the parts that I couldn't remove, the parts like you get like a very difficult attorney on the other side, or you have clients who aren't going to cooperate, there are things you can't control, but you learn like how can I support myself to be with that without having to like run out the door.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: So for me, it was trusting myself, but at the same time also building up this work, finding different avenues where I could grow and help my mindfulness work to flourish.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: And I think mostly it was that inner trust, listening and knowing like you may not have A, B, and C mapped out, but until you free yourself, until you actually physically create that space and open yourself up to the possibility, you're gonna forever be chained behind that wall.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: And so the biggest aha moment that helped me to like free myself is I went on a retreat in September.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: I had been the year before on this mindfulness treat at the Omega Center in Rhinebeck, New York, with John Cabazin and his son Will Cabotzin.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: And I should add, John Cabotzin is the pioneer of the program I teach.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: So I hold so much respect for him in terms of what he's created, what he's opened me up to, and how he's helped me to heal myself and in turn heal others.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: But just him as a person, he and his son, I didn't know his son, but two phenomenal human beings and teachers.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: So I committed to the retreat this past September.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: And I was looking for an answer, like something, a light to go off that would say, okay, follow your heart, follow this path.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of difficult emotions, sensations, thoughts came up.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: And for those of you who who maybe haven't been on retreat, it's it's a really wonderful way to deepen your practice and your meditate, your formal practice.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot, though.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of sitting with your thoughts and physically you're getting up early and you're meditating until the wee hours of the night.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: And there's some movement pieces, but it's demanding in the sense that you're facing like you're full-on facing things that otherwise in the busyness of our lives, we check out and we we don't face those parts that maybe aren't easy or don't feel so good.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: So I really sat with and held space for what was holding me back.
26:53
SPEAKER_01: And a few things came up and a couple teachings that John and Will shared that I just felt like I was so ready, so inspired.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: And the writing was on the wall for me.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, about a month ago, I officially stepped away from a two-decade career as a litigator.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: And now I am fully committed to something that I'm completely passionate about and something that I feel like allows me to help so many people on a deeper level than I think my work as an attorney did.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, congratulations, first of all.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: When we met, just going back to when we met in the city, having a discussion with you over a cup of coffee, and or no, I think we had matcha tea, iced matcha tea.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: Let's get it right, let's get the drink right.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that they were really good.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: But having that inspiration, and you really, there's a handful of women and men, but just in terms of what we as female professionals juggle and mothers, like seeing that it's possible to pursue something that really brings you a lot of joy, but also knowing that it's not as spooky.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: There's definitely scary parts of embarking upon something that's new and and uncertain.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: But when your heart is in it, as much as I know yours is in the work that you do, that kind of have to just let that steer the way.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: So I want to thank you because you were a part of the equation or puzzle.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that makes me happy.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: And I'd like to go back to so, like when you were on the retreat and you know, you had these times where you could really like just face yourself and you could really see like what the things were that were holding you back.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: What were those things?
28:46
SPEAKER_01: I would say the common theme that I spoke about is am I good enough at this?
28:53
SPEAKER_01: From the teaching point, do I know enough?
28:56
SPEAKER_01: And the other part, the business angle, as a lawyer, you're taught you learn law and rules and procedures, and you understand a certain type of business.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: But in terms of running your own business, I didn't own a law firm, and there's so many other pieces to the business end of things that I wasn't sure about.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: So there was that piece and yeah, financial.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: Can I can I make this work for me and my family?
29:27
SPEAKER_01: But I would say it wasn't one particular thing.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: I think it was almost like just a cloud of not trusting for so long, forcing myself to follow through with something and in some light feeling like a failure if I let my heart guide me.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Like I knew my heart wasn't 110% into practicing law.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: Again, I still gave 150% and I did a great job and got great outcomes, but I've always let the analytical part of me take the lead, as opposed to what is my heart most desire?
30:07
SPEAKER_01: What is it that's gonna be most fulfilling to me?
30:10
SPEAKER_01: And part of that in some light felt a little selfish.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: This is something that I've spoken with with another female coach.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: This comes up, I think, a lot for women, but when we're checking off all the boxes and what meets our needs, sometimes we, and I don't want to make it like this doesn't come up for men, but I think that it's a common theme for women.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Can we have it all?
30:33
SPEAKER_01: And can we be happy and fulfilled and pursue our dreams?
30:36
SPEAKER_01: And and so there was a part of me that maybe felt a bit selfish in diving into this, but in hindsight, being on the other side and tasting the fruits of this decision, I couldn't be any more sure and confident in the transition.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you're right.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: I think the selfishness piece comes up for everybody.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Like I know for me when I quit my job, I had all of these fears come up, you know, because my job was kind of like the stability in our family.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: And I had all these fears around, like I felt like I was a bad mom, that I was being irresponsible and I was a bad mom.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Like that thought came up for me a lot.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't want to rock the boat.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: Everything's intact, and why shake things up?
31:24
SPEAKER_01: But there comes a point where if you're not happy, I think that that also can be felt in a very palpable way by your family and people around you.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: So you were working in education in a school.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was a school counselor.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: I think from when we met, you were saying there are, I think both your parents were yeah, both my parents were teachers.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: So I I know that in terms of wanting to please my parents, like I worked as a lawyer, my I have a brother, he's a doctor, and like how great a parents say, Oh, I have a doctor.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Like a Jewish, Jewish mother's dream.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it comes to a point where you live your life fully for yourself and and what checks the boxes off for where you are in this space for you and for the family that you've created, and you start to understand yourself more.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: And I think you also realize that life is really short, it goes by so fast.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: So, so as much as we can to lean into goodness, to lean into the parts of life that make us feel good.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: So, for me, it was making this this big transition.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's so exciting.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: You've been fully not doing anything having to do with law for like a month or three weeks now, essentially, right?
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I say it takes a certain kind of deprogramming or deconditioning because as attorneys and and and litigators, there's just a certain way of thinking, and there's so many deadlines to meet.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think the conditioning, it's just it's something that for 20 years of practicing and then three years of law school, it's like melting away that that way of living.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: But again, I I have no regrets.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: It's not like I'm kicking myself for why didn't I do this earlier?
33:22
SPEAKER_01: I I learned so much.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: And in really being in that environment and understanding how inherently stressful it can be at times to be a litigator, that in turn allows me to help and relate to other professionals, other individuals who were in high stress environments.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: So it's really been like a beautiful circular path.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: The the work that I did and my underlying issues with anxiety brought me to mindfulness.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: Mindfulness helped enhance the resilience that was always always here, but helped me to understand how I could even open myself up to more joy.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: I say it's the yin and the yang.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm offering different workshops now, and I teach at Jefferson, as I mentioned, throughout the year with each season.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: They offer the foundational program known as the mindfulness-based stress reduction program.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm on deck to begin the next cohort, so to speak, of the MBSR program, which will be offered virtually.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: So that begins in January.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'm also working together with a really cool company.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: We partnered, there's a company called Shortcut, which long before the pandemic was offering workplaces different wellness packages, such as massage, hair, nails.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: And they wanted to dive deeper into the emotional wellness.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: So I've joined forces with them where I go into workplaces, whether it's in person or remotely, and teach them different mindfulness practices, formal meditation, as well as informal tools that they can weave into their daily life so that they can find more ease and incline themselves in in the direction of relaxation and then in turn optimize performance.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: And then do you work like because I know you had said before, obviously, so wanting to help attorneys also.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: So is that something that you're doing too?
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: So I just completed, we offered for the first time at Jefferson because again, I feel like the world as a whole could benefit from mindfulness, but I I know how intense it is in the legal profession and not just for lawyers, for paralegals, for uh legal assistants, judges, admin.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a it's a really demanding profession.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: So I I worked together with the director and the associate director at the Center for Mindfulness at Jefferson, and we designed a program that was tailored for legal professionals to reduce stress and enhance resilience.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: So we just finished that program just a few weeks ago, and it was really well received.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: So I'm hoping to do more on behalf of Jefferson to really help support the legal community, not just in the Philadelphia region, but that was offered remotely so you could be around the world.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: And that's one aspect.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: I am also later this month, I'll be recording.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: As I mentioned, CLEs are something that's required.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: And interestingly enough, certain states, like Pennsylvania, for example, has an ethics requirement.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: You have to get so many credits for ethics, but certain states around the country actually have a requirement of mindfulness CLEs.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: So I've been invited to do a live webinar that will be recorded so that people can listen to it.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: But it's four attorneys, and that's really exciting.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: So I'll Yeah, that's so cool.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: Any way I can reach a larger audience so that the benefits of mindfulness can ripple out, I think, is a win-win.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: In terms of the legal community, that's like my bread and butter.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: I've been for the last decade sharing this with bar associations, with law firms, with various companies who have attorneys like in-house counsel, whether it's for national organizations or the bar institute, for example.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: I welcome any opportunity to share these practices with others.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: And do you feel like most people like really want to learn them?
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, are there some people who are like, no, I have no time for this?
37:54
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: I would say there are some people, I don't want to stereotype it, but some people are so set in their ways.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: Maybe they have a certain lifestyle and they think it's been working just fine for them, and they might be stressed out of their mind, but they may look at this as hippy-dippy.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: So they they're like, no, that's not for me.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: I would say, in my experience, some of the younger attorneys are a bit more open to it.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: And that's really great because I think that the earlier in someone's career that you can offer them these tools, just the more supportive it'll be, that the more they can deepen their understanding and practice and in turn just grow their business.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you you get a mixture.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: There's no, it's not for everybody.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: I say like mindfulness is innate, it's natural, it's within each of us.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: We all have, and for those listening or watching, mindfulness is basically awareness.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: It's it's the ability to be aware in the present moment and as you know, as much as possible, not to judge our experiences.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: But the formal mindfulness practice isn't for everybody, but there's a lot of scientific research and more and more so in the legal community showing that there are real benefits.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: There are real benefits when we regularly commit to the practice.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: So it's exciting.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot going on right now from a neuroscience standpoint, where it's not only people like me saying it's helpful, but you can measure through scientific research.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: You can actually see, you can demonstrate how beneficial this can be for individuals.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: I think there's so much scientific proof coming out now about spiritual practices that's like legitimizing things.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever had the experience where somebody's like super against it, but then they end up trying it and you like convert them?
39:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I say it's like a cult.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: They're like, no, no, no, get go away.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: And then oh I had an attorney who had come to one of my I gave uh the lunch and learn type workshop and sort of came in with a stack of work to do.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, this person's not even like I could see them because work.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: It was, you know, they were looking at a colleague and kind of rolling their eyes, and I was wondering, like, you know, why are you even here?
40:25
SPEAKER_01: And it was after the guided practice, it was like a 15-minute body scan, and which by the way, like as attorneys, we're so in our heads, we're we're constantly like resolving and strategizing that when you ask an attorney sometimes to drop into the body, like feel into the body, it's like, you want me to do what?
40:44
SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to stop thinking about this case?
40:46
SPEAKER_01: So I had guided a body scan where you just simply we start from the top of the head and we guide attention through the body, and you just feel with a sense of curiosity, just notice whatever sensations you're experiencing as we move from the top of the head to the soles of the feet.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: And afterwards, he looks so relaxed.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: There was a quasi-smile on his face.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: The papers that he had been writing on, the files they were put down.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: And he actually reached out to me afterwards and commended me on such a great presentation and said, in addition to the formal practice, I gave the group what are known as on the spot practices.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: So they're just simple ways, whether we're feeling some impatience come up if we're in a traffic jam and we have to get somewhere, or our kid is driving us crazy, or we're dealing with a difficult adversary in one of our cases.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: It's a simple way that we can help ourselves find more ease.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: And he just said, I've been using the relaxing size practice that you've told me, and and and it's been so helpful.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: So here I noticed myself being a bit judgmental about him, thinking, like, why are you wasting your time being here?
42:03
SPEAKER_01: And he ended up coming to multiple subsequent workshops that I offered, and even took a six-week program that I had offered within the firm to support legal practitioners.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: So when you can spark a little bit of interest, even the tiniest bit, and people are curious and open to it and notice some type of transition, then that can unfold and lead to something even more.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: And I think also for people, especially men, not to like categorize men, but I think it's almost even hard for them to just kind of say that they want help with something.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: It's almost like a vulnerability thing, too, where it's like they don't feel comfortable to say, like, oh, I could use something that would help me.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: You hit the nail on the head with vulnerability.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: There is a certain quality of vulnerability.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: And we often say in the MBSR program, it's not for the faint of heart.
43:04
SPEAKER_01: One of the formal meditations that we teach or that or that I teach is a loving-kindness practice where we send well wishes outward, but we also are kind and compassionate.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: We send well wishes to ourselves.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: And some people look at that as it's gonna make me like a pushover, or I'm gonna be soft, I'm gonna look like I can't be the pit bull and cord, or I can't hold my own.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: It's actually one of the toughest practices in a sense, because we're actually turning in, we're looking at and feeling into what can be really difficult, and we're we're wishing ourselves well and sending it outward, maybe to someone who is a difficult person in our lives.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: It can be really tough work and it, but it makes us more resilient.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: So there's some misconceptions about it, and I don't want to make it a male, female type of thing, but when Men are supposed to be stoic and tough and not be vulnerable when they can turn inward, both men and women, and see that you know, recognize we have these inner resources to be with what can be really challenging, that makes us even stronger and it helps us to heal and it helps us to be more productive in our work, but in our lives.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: So it's an interesting process and you can't sell it to everyone.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: But for many people, when they practice and when they can let go of judging what's coming up, there can be a transformation in a positive direction.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I offer each week because I know people are like, I'm interested, I'm curious what this is about, but I don't necessarily want to pay for a six-week program or an eight-week program.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: So I offer on Thursdays through Zoom from 4 to 4:15.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: It's just uh what we call a drop-in where you can be experienced in meditation, you can be brand spanking new.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: And I give a brief explanation of what mindfulness is and then guide the group in in a formal practice.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: And then every Tuesday, on behalf of the Center for Mindfulness at Jefferson, typically it's either myself or Elise Moss.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: We take turns offering from 12:30 to 1245, similar platform and through through Zoom where it's free and you don't have to have any experience.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: But it's just a nice way to disconnect from all the doing that we do and to connect more fully with ourselves and to also connect with others to know that we're not practicing alone.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so for the skeptic out there.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, for sure.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: And I would think too, with lawyers, especially, like even though that vulnerability piece can be hard, I think that ultimately, you know, when you're working as a lawyer, obviously a lot of it has to do with connecting to people, right?
46:10
SPEAKER_00: And I think that like it will help you so much to be able to more authentically connect with people.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, especially in the courtroom, I would imagine, because you have to like connect with the jury and and all of that.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's like you would be so much better at that if you did this, you know.
46:28
SPEAKER_00: So I think even that would be a good selling point.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: No, a hundred percent.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: I was just talking.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: There's an there's a a gentleman, a very successful planet's attorney.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: So I was representing on the other side defendants, and we had a case together.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: It was one of my last cases, and he just put up a post on LinkedIn saying, and maybe twisting the post a little bit, but the general theme of it was like he thought as an attorney or as a litigator, it's what you say, it's how you speak, what you get across.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: And then he acknowledged that it's actually the listening piece, like when we listen to what our clients want, when we listen to the other side, what they're saying.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: And I wrote him back saying mindful listening in the work that we do as litigators, but even so, like in our relationships, are we truly hearing what someone's saying to us?
47:22
SPEAKER_01: And when we can practice that deep, mindful listening, it can create a level of trust where it's not so much what you're saying, but just really being present for someone.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: So to get back what you're saying, like that connection piece, we can really enhance a feeling of connection when we mindfully communicate with others.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
47:46
SPEAKER_00: And listen, I mean, I think that that's something that I feel like a lot of people don't even realize that because you can sense when you're talking to someone and they're not fully listening to you.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: Like everybody can sense that, but I think it's so normal because everybody's kind of distracted with stuff.
48:01
SPEAKER_00: Like I noticed for me when I was a school counselor, I learned pretty early on that like all the kids really needed from me was to listen and be present.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: Because they didn't really have anyone in their lives who was really fully present with them.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: And I realized that that was like the biggest gift that I could give them is just be fully present and listen without judgment or whatever.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't really have to do anything other than that.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: And I think that actually is what most people want.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: And then if they have that, they feel seen and heard and acknowledged, and it just changes the entire energy and like creates that connection.
48:40
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
48:41
SPEAKER_01: And I love what you said like not having to do anything, not only is it appreciated by the person who's speaking to us, but it's a gift to ourselves to just be and to just listen as opposed to having to come up with some solution, which oftentimes people don't necessarily want, they want just to be heard.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: So it's a gift to the person who's sharing with us, but it's also a gift to ourselves to allow ourselves to just be, to just be someone to fully with our full presence to listen.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: And and yeah, there's we offer whole courses on this on mindful communication.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: I think most people need that.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: I and that's what I actually teach in my certification when they're first starting out to practice facilitating breath work and like the tools that I teach them is you don't have to do anything.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: All you have to do is be present.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: I always say your presence is enough.
49:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:40
SPEAKER_00: And that's the first thing that I teach them because I don't want them to sit there the entire time thinking, like, I have to come up with something to say, or I have to like fix their problem, or I have to make them feel like they're having a good time or whatever it is, because it's just a gift for somebody to be present with you.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: And that's a common theme too, when when I teach awareness of breath meditation.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: And I know, I know our sort of the teachings of the respective breath work that we we do is a bit different.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: But even with that, even when we're just being present with feeling the breath, there's efforting.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: Like we're even working hard at that.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: And and so that's a really great thing to notice because even something as simple as a meditation on awareness of breath, we can start to understand just how hard or how much of a hard time we give ourselves for the way we're breathing or the way we think we should be breathing.
50:33
SPEAKER_01: So all of these practices are sort of eye-opening experiences that like the work that you do, it helps us to understand some of our hardwiring or or our past and how we can open ourselves up to more freedom in the present moment.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: So, what would you say is like the biggest shift that you made?
50:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, I know obviously you had less anxiety and everything, but like just overall in the last however many years since you've been doing this, like what would you say is the biggest way that you feel different?
51:08
SPEAKER_01: I would say that I think my identity, it's like, I wake up, it's like, who am I today?
51:14
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm so used to like on one day, I'd be like, oh, I'm Miss Litigator, I'm gearing up for a trial, or oh no, today I'm giving a workshop to this company and I'm wearing my mindfulness teacher hat.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's fully embracing who I am, but I think from a time perspective, I can fully commit.
51:33
SPEAKER_01: I can commit to more opportunities in the mindfulness sector.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: Whereas before, I couldn't necessarily, if there was some great opportunity, I couldn't because it would conflict with uh a hearing I had or a deposition.
51:48
SPEAKER_01: So to remove that scheduling-wise, that feels very freeing.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: That was holding me back from being able to offer these practices to more and more people or to more and more companies.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: So flexibility, flexibility with my time.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: I think my husband's been surprised because I'm an early morning person and I joke around that I'm waiting for Mark Wahlberg to call me up because you know he's got like that 4 a.m.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: workout or maybe it's 3:30.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: It's it's something really early.
52:17
SPEAKER_01: But I've always sort of like, that's been my time to get my work done.
52:21
SPEAKER_01: So for as long as he can remember whether it was getting up to read for a law law school class or in more recent time, prep for something I had for one of my cases.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm still getting up early.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: It's just that I have, instead of working on a legal case, I'm doing research on benefits of mindfulness.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: And I'm be able to prep for workshops or create new content.
52:48
SPEAKER_01: In terms of the drive and the work ethic, nothing has changed.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm still getting up.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm not just sleeping until 10 o'clock.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm still very much driven, but it's just where I can put my attention.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: And for me, that's a gift to be able to put so much more attention on this work and not feel like I'm being held back.
53:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I totally get it.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: And it's like the freedom to put your energy into something that you want to put it into.
53:14
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it doesn't feel like work.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: When I think when you when you're really passionate about something, even if you're putting in long hours, to me, it's not like I'm not complaining about it.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: It really brings me a lot of joy.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: And I'm always curious to learn more.
53:32
SPEAKER_01: So it's been sweet to just see that more and more, and not to be so resistant to what it is that's coming up.
53:41
SPEAKER_01: And so that's different to have less of the and more of the like, oh, that's like I love that.
53:49
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so excited for you.
53:53
SPEAKER_00: And thank you for coming on.
53:55
SPEAKER_00: I'd love for you to share too how people can get in touch with you and where they can find you.
54:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:01
SPEAKER_01: So I have a website.
54:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm in the middle of revamping it, but it is very much active right now.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: So you can check out Courtney Scholnick Mindfulness.com.
54:13
SPEAKER_01: Scholnick is uh is a mouthful, but it's we'll link it.
54:17
SPEAKER_01: You'll link it.
54:18
SPEAKER_01: And I'm really active on LinkedIn.
54:19
SPEAKER_01: I would say if you want to read newsletters and get inspirational pieces and even see the latest, I have a I have a podcast called Conscious Corner with Annie and Courtney.
54:33
SPEAKER_01: It's myself and an executive life coach.
54:36
SPEAKER_01: I post a lot, if three, if not more times a week, about what it is I'm working on.
54:42
SPEAKER_01: And so I would say LinkedIn, connect with me, and then my email, Courtney Scholnick, mindfulness at gmail.com.
54:49
SPEAKER_01: You can reach out to me directly.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: And thank you for sharing all of that.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: And thank you for being here.
54:57
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me and for holding this space for me to talk about mindfulness.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to subscribe to the show, leave a review, and share the show with your friends who you know are yearning for this type of content.
55:11
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55:19
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55:30
SPEAKER_00: Make sure you download my breastwork for financial freedom at elisebreeds.com.
55:35
SPEAKER_00: See you next time.