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The Importance of Building Clinical and Technology Alignment in Healthcare · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

0:00
Hello, everyone. This is Erica Spicer Mason with
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Becker's Healthcare. Thank you so much for tuning
0:05
in to the Becker's Healthcare podcast series.
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Today, we're going to talk about the importance
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of building clinical and technology alignment in health
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care. And joining me for this important conversation
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are two leaders from Insight Global Health.
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We have with us Scott Smizer, principal health
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care services adviser,
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and doctor Jamie Brennan, chief nursing officer.
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Doctor Brennan, Scott, welcome, and thank you so
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much for making time for the podcast today.
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Thank you. Happy to be here.
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Yes, Erica. Thanks for having us. Oh, well,
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great to have you both on the line.
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And before we talk a little bit more
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about clinical technology alignment, I'd love to learn
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just a little bit more about you both.
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So if you could just share a little
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bit more about your work and what you
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do in health care, that would be great.
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Scott, let's start with you.
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Absolutely. Thank you. So, Scott Switzer, I've been
0:54
in the health care industry for thirty four
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years. I started as a baby, right out
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of high school. So I've done pretty much
1:00
every role in technology and health care. Spent
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mostly
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that time in IDNs, large IDNs, most recently
1:06
a large academic medical center in the Southeast.
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It's been over twelve years doing health care
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consulting, merger and acquisition,
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large project installations like EMRs.
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So
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happy to be here.
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Great to have you with us, Scott. Thank
1:20
you so much. And doctor Brennan, how about
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you?
1:23
Yeah. Thanks so much, Erica. So I have
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been with Insight Global now for just under
1:28
a year,
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and I've been in nursing for actually over
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twenty years now, which seems crazy to say
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out loud.
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But for most of that time, I was
1:36
actually in hospitals and health care organizations for
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about fifteen years, actually. And I was lucky
1:42
enough during that time to go through multiple
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transitions for EMR integrations. So I got to
1:48
transition from paper charting to, you know, Sertr
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to Epic to Meditech.
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So I got to experience them all. So
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thanks so much for having us.
1:56
Oh, so glad to have you both, and
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it's great to know that you're bringing both
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of you are bringing this experience with
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not just, you know, on the ground health
2:04
care delivery,
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kind of more broadly how the industry is
2:08
working as a whole, but you're also seeing
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that evolution of technology
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across your tenors in health care. And that's
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kind of where I wanna start here.
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We see that health care organizations are embracing
2:18
technology at a very rapid pace, but
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that can come with real challenges. So I'd
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love to hear from you both what you're
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seeing as the biggest obstacles that organizations are
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facing,
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especially as they're evaluating
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and implementing new tools. You know, where do
2:33
things often go sideways?
2:36
Yeah. I can jump in here, first. So
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I think for me, really, from
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my perspective and all of the go lives
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and things I've been a part of, of
2:44
course, on the, you know, frontline nursing side,
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a lot of times what I see is
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stakeholders
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all are not always at the table. So,
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you know, we might have some implementation
2:55
from the IT side. We might have some
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executive leaders,
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but we don't necessarily always have frontline leaders
3:02
who are gonna be the ones using this
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technology day in and day out.
3:06
And I think when we start with them
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at the table and when we start with
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getting their input,
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it just makes everything
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run significantly
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better and cleaner,
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and you don't have as much of that
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kind of resistance when it comes to the
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rollout and go live.
3:24
Great points. And, Scott, how about you? What
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does this look like from your point of
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view? No. I concur with doctor Brennan. You
3:30
know, when I've led teams in these projects
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or advised clients, you know, a lot of
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times, I I I the mantra that I
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have is we're not doing technology for technology's
3:39
sake. Right? You know, what is the value
3:41
proposition that we're trying to give our operational
3:44
leaders, but more importantly, our clinical caregivers out
3:47
on the front lines. And, you know, I
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think where things get sideways in some organizations
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is they either do not have an advanced
3:55
informatic department whereby they can engage the informaticist.
3:59
And and you see those roles from, you
4:02
know, a physician, nurse,
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pharmacist on down through the clinical care setting
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that
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individuals have moved into those informatic roles and
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are specialists in workflow and how the slightest
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of change sometimes in software or hardware can
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really impact or impede,
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clinical caregiving, and that's not the goal. So,
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you know, making sure that the informatic teams
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are clearly engaged. I think where organizations
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get it right is where they've got a
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good governance structure, and they've got experienced councils
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to what doctor Burden is talking about is
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that they're engaged. Right? From the very beginning,
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they're part of the decision making process,
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but they're a guiding hand throughout the the
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delivery of the product or service or technology
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platform
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we're rolling out. But more importantly,
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you know, I think when organizations roll a
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technology out,
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too often they find that they're done. Right?
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We're live. We went live with the product
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and we're done. And I think that's a
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missed opportunity for organizations
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where I think they can really go back
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and look at what were the key performance
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indicators we were trying to improve.
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Did we hit the mark? You know, doing
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net promoter scores and surveys
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of where do we need to get it
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right. Because a lot of times, once you've
5:14
got something in too often, especially with an
5:17
EMR system,
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you really need to optimize that in a
5:21
way that brings the true value
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to what the organization is doing.
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So, you know, those are my thoughts on
5:29
on how, you know, organizations can try to
5:31
get it right, but there's a lot of
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obstacles out there to navigate for sure.
5:35
Yeah. I appreciate
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the overview from you both. It sounds like
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that kind of starting point of needing to
5:42
align stakeholders within an organization
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when that goes wrong, it's almost like a
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domino effect from there,
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and
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can result in some missed opportunities, Scott, to
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your point.
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And I wanna make sure that we touch
5:54
on too, not just what's happening within the
5:56
organization, but
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with with many organizations who are pursuing
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technology innovation, a new partnership.
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A lot of the times that is with
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a third party. So, doctor Brennan, let's start
6:09
with you first. In from a clinical standpoint,
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what criteria matter when vetting a potential partner
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or a solution?
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And then, Scott, I'd love to hear how
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that equation ships when you're thinking about it
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through a workforce lens.
6:22
Yeah. Erica, thank you so much for that.
6:24
So I think for each hospital system, it's
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gonna be a little bit different
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because every hospital system has a lot of
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different technologies.
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There's a lot more technologies that we have
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to choose from, and how those technologies
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communicate with each other becomes really important in
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how they impact the frontline staff.
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And so from a clinical perspective, you know,
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having someone at the table that's gonna be
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the user of the technology
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after those considerations
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have been met, making sure that all of
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the functionality
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has been vetted, we ensure everything communicates appropriately.
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I think it's so important to have that
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end user there because they're gonna ask questions
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that we haven't thought of. You know, I've
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been out of frontline bedside nursing care for
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probably over ten years now, and there are
7:13
just things that I'm not gonna think of
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that a nurse that's taking care of patients
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day in and day out is really going
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to take into account. And so I think,
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you know, not only thinking about that communication
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piece and how the trickle effect is. Right?
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You know, how everything impacts each other
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becomes really, really important.
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Yeah. Doctor Brennan, thank you so much. And,
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Scott, when you're thinking about this through kind
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of that more operational workforce lens, what would
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you say?
7:41
You know, I think that the biggest thing
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that I see a lot of organizations, some
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get it really right and some don't think
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about it at all, is organizational change management
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for the frontline.
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And how are you really rolling out those
7:55
changes in a in a meaningful way that
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has the caregivers
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engaged? And, you know, where I've seen it
8:02
done right, the OCM program is clearly communicating
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what we're trying to do when we're trying
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to do it, but more importantly, the value
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that we're trying to derive by doing that.
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And it's clearly communicated on the front end
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to the workforce.
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But more importantly, you've got informaticists
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in different teams as part of the deployment
8:20
effort that are out there rounding,
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you know, prior to the change or after
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the change or during the change. So I
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think, again, thinking through the different phases of
8:30
a rollout
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and really getting the OCM part right. And
8:34
and you're documenting it and you're clearly communicating
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it to the workforce.
8:38
Yeah. Scott, I'm glad you you brought up
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change management because this is something that we
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hear in leadership conversations day in and day
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out at Becker's that it's one of the
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most challenging parts of technology adoption.
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And, of course, clinical operational alignment to both
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of your points is oftentimes at the center
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of that.
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So could you say a little bit more
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about what it looks like when that alignment
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is breaking down? And then on the other
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hand, what does it look like when it's
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really clicking?
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Yeah. I can jump in here. So for
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nursing,
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you know, it's one of the hardest parts
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is there's so few things in nursing you
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can actually control.
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You can't control how patients, you know, are
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gonna react. You can't control getting new admissions
9:18
or dis charges or things like that. And
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so the things we have that we can
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control
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is really, you know, the technology,
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how we use it, how we document things.
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And so transitioning away from something you're so
9:33
comfortable with when it's one of the only
9:35
things you can control in your day can
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be really hard.
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And so when
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something is just dropped off on a unit
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or brought in after the fact, it's already
9:47
been purchased, it's already been in the contract
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is signed.
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That buy in after the fact is really
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hard because you're gonna have clinicians that just
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dig their heels in, you know, doctors and
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nurses alike.
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And so when things go sideways, that's really
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where it starts is this was a decision
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that was made kind of in a silo.
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And when it goes really well, it's when
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all of the stakeholders are at the table,
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and it's when this was a decision that
10:15
was made that's best for the organization,
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not just one or two reasons. So when
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it goes really well, you have that buy
10:24
in. You have the change agents that have
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been part of the decision making process,
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and then those are gonna be your cheerleaders.
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And then you will see
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nearly, you know, no pushback, no heels digging
10:36
in, things like that by getting people involved
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early.
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Yeah. Really insightful, doctor Brennan. And what would
10:43
you add, Scott?
10:44
You know, to what doctor Brennan's talking about,
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I think when we've seen it go really
10:48
well
10:49
from the very beginning, we talk about who
10:51
do we feel like on the front lines
10:54
will have friction points with this technology.
10:57
No names are mentioned. Right? We we we
10:59
know who those leaders are,
11:02
whether they're clinical
11:03
or operational leaders, really getting them on board
11:06
with what we're doing and why we're trying
11:08
to do it. But I think more importantly,
11:10
what I'm seeing more and more, which is
11:12
promising to me,
11:13
being a veteran in in this industry, is
11:15
you're seeing more organizations
11:18
change their technology teams to digital teams or
11:21
digital innovation transformation
11:22
teams. And you're really trying to shift the
11:25
lens from them being a cost center or
11:28
back of house function,
11:30
to operations to a
11:32
digital partner that is at the table with
11:35
them. And I've seen that play out well
11:36
in organizations where we're on an operational call
11:39
and someone will say, is there a digital
11:41
partner on the call?
11:43
And that that in itself changes the mindset
11:46
of what you're trying to do because you're
11:48
trying to, every team that I've ever led,
11:50
I've always said the one thing that keeps
11:51
me in health care is what I know
11:53
for sure is all of us will be
11:56
a participant of the health care process and
11:59
be a recipient of health care. And I
12:01
wanna know what we're doing today
12:03
is going to make tomorrow and the next
12:06
day and the next year better for the
12:07
caregivers that we're trying to serve. So,
12:10
you know, it gets down to change management,
12:13
for sure, but engagement of leaders that you
12:16
know are gonna have
12:17
problems with,
12:19
any kind of technology rollout. Getting them on
12:21
board early and getting them aligned.
12:23
They can be your biggest champions out there
12:25
in a lot of ways.
12:27
Thanks, Scott. So when we're talking about change
12:30
management or just simply aligning teams and aligning
12:33
stakeholders,
12:34
can you share an example of where Insight
12:36
Global has kind of stepped in to help
12:39
bridge that gap for a partner? And what
12:41
do you think really made the difference?
12:44
I actually think I might,
12:46
kick this one over to Scott. He actually
12:47
has firsthand experience with a time that, Insight
12:50
Global actually helped out in this way.
12:53
Absolutely. I feel like there are so many
12:55
times where we are with clients where when
12:58
it goes right and we can provide value
13:01
is when we're at the table at the
13:02
beginning. And we're a guiding hand
13:05
in not only the scoping, but the delivery
13:08
and the execution of these initiatives.
13:10
That's first and foremost. And then we've been
13:13
in situations where clients have caught
13:15
that weren't part of our portfolio, have called
13:17
us up and said, we've heard what you
13:19
do, and we wanna engage you. And we
13:21
come in and bring a team
13:23
that really comes in and stabilizes the situation
13:26
or brings it back on track,
13:29
from a training and a workflow assessment standpoint.
13:32
So those are the ways we can actually,
13:35
bring value to the clients. But I think
13:36
that first and foremost is, you know, us
13:38
being there at the beginning and helping guide
13:40
our clients through success.
13:42
Yeah. Fantastic. Thank you so much for adding
13:44
some color there, Scott.
13:46
And as we're looking ahead,
13:49
what do you both think health care leaders
13:51
should be prioritizing right now to further build
13:54
that clinical technology alignment
13:56
before the next wave of innovation arrives? Because
13:59
we know it's coming,
14:00
and we'd love to know what you see
14:02
as the payoff,
14:03
when that alignment goes well.
14:05
Yeah. Absolutely. So my recommendation is really to
14:09
take a step back
14:11
and really look at your organization as a
14:14
whole and really look at your operational goals
14:17
for the hospital.
14:19
What I see so often, especially as we
14:21
continue to move faster and faster and faster
14:24
into technology,
14:26
into AI,
14:27
into these advanced processes that are so exciting,
14:32
is we don't necessarily
14:33
stop to see where are we going in
14:35
the next five years?
14:37
How are these things going to impact all
14:39
of the stuff that we already have in
14:41
place?
14:42
Is it a time that we need to
14:43
make a shift?
14:45
Do we need to more create a plan
14:47
and chip away at the things that we
14:49
really want to focus on? Because in five
14:52
years, this is where we want to be.
14:54
And so I think it's so important that
14:57
we kind of, you know, get out of
14:59
the silo mentality
15:01
of, you know, my department needs this. And
15:03
and I'll be the first to admit,
15:05
I lived in a silo for a while
15:07
and
15:08
didn't necessarily
15:09
see the the importance of the operational goals
15:12
because I wanted what was best for my
15:14
nurses on my floor and my division.
15:17
And so it's so important that we kind
15:19
of, you know, back away just a little
15:21
bit and say what's best for this organization
15:24
to make sure that moving forward with all
15:27
of these different technologies,
15:28
we don't get super
15:31
Yeah. I appreciate that note about looking ahead
15:35
to doctor Brennan. I think that's a really
15:36
important,
15:38
an important aspect here. And, Scott, what would
15:40
you add?
15:42
You know, to what doctor Burton is talking
15:43
about, I think too often, we find organizations
15:46
that are they they internally know the technology
15:50
teams, the informatic teams know
15:52
the building blocks for the three year or
15:55
the five year clinical transformation journey.
15:58
But too often, we find organizations aren't communicating
16:00
that to what she's talking about to the
16:02
front lines. And I think if you really
16:04
get out and engage the clinical stakeholders in
16:07
a way that, you know, you're sharing that
16:09
journey, like, we have to do these three
16:11
building blocks this quarter this year
16:14
in order to prepare us for the next
16:16
chapter and the next phase of this journey.
16:19
The those are often easier pills to swallow.
16:22
Right? That that you know why we're doing
16:24
things in a certain sequence or a certain
16:26
order. But I think it often gets back
16:29
to good governance,
16:31
clinical and technology governance,
16:33
and engagement,
16:34
and and making sure you've got the right
16:36
stakeholders at the table
16:38
from the very beginning. You know, three weeks
16:40
before a rollout is not the time to
16:42
engage clinical operations.
16:44
They need to be involved in the very
16:46
beginning. They need to be your ombudsmooms that
16:48
are talking about evangelizing
16:50
and and and shouting to the rooftops
16:52
to their
16:54
constituents at operations
16:55
why we're doing this, and what is the
16:57
perceived clinical value that we'll get out of
17:00
that,
17:01
that, again, we're not doing technology for technology's
17:03
sake. Right? Mhmm.
17:06
Yeah. What's striking me, Scott, is
17:08
how technology deployments,
17:10
of course, can be a very complex thing,
17:12
but so many of the key themes you
17:14
both have hit on throughout this conversation,
17:16
good governance, engagement,
17:18
getting the right stakeholders at the table in
17:20
the very beginning. They're very basic principles.
17:23
So
17:24
just really appreciate the insights from from both
17:27
of you and kind of bringing this down
17:29
to earth on what it really takes.
17:31
That said, is there anything we haven't covered
17:33
today that you think deserves more attention in
17:35
the conversation to close this out?
17:38
For me, it would really just be to
17:40
encourage everyone, whether you're planning something right now
17:43
or just looking into the future,
17:46
is to find a really good partner. One
17:48
of the things Insight Global does really well
17:50
is consulting and custom teams.
17:53
And so if you're thinking, hey, we might
17:56
have this big project, but we just don't
17:58
even know where to start,
17:59
Find a good partner. Somebody that can really
18:01
help you through that journey, and it's gonna
18:03
make it a lot less stressful for you
18:05
and your organization.
18:07
Great note. And, Scott, how about you?
18:10
Yeah. To what doctor Brennan's talking about, I
18:11
think what we do really well in encyclable
18:14
health is build a custom experience. It's not
18:16
a rinse and repeat experience for us. We
18:19
really wanna know
18:20
what our clients want, and we wanna build
18:22
a custom experience.
18:24
But I think it's a differentiator for us
18:26
in that we allow our clients to convert
18:28
talent.
18:30
And a lot of organizations don't do that,
18:32
whereby
18:33
we may bring,
18:34
you know, a pod of individuals and the
18:36
client at the end says, you know, half
18:38
of these people, I want to be part
18:40
of my team permanently.
18:41
And we're like, we're great. Let's make them
18:43
part of your team. Let's convert that talent
18:46
to your operations permanently. And a lot of
18:49
companies don't do that. And and I think
18:51
what sets us apart is that we've got
18:53
over 2,200
18:54
recruiters,
18:55
in a in a global scale that can
18:57
go out and research and curate talent
19:00
in a way that a lot of other
19:01
organizations can't do.
19:03
Yeah. Fantastic.
19:05
Well, doctor Brennan, Scott, it's been great spending
19:07
some time with you today and learning from
19:10
all of your experience in the field and
19:12
how you're seeing clinical and technology alignment take
19:15
shape at organizations.
19:16
So just wanna thank you again for making
19:18
time for Becker's today. Thank you, Erica.
19:21
Thank you, Erica. Thanks for having us. And
19:23
we also wanna thank our podcast sponsor, Insight
19:26
Global Health.
19:27
Listeners, be sure to tune in to more
19:29
podcasts from Becker's Healthcare by visiting our podcast
19:32
page at beckers hospital review dot com.