Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 85: The Addictive System: Why Stopping Behavior Isn't Enough

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85: The Addictive System: Why Stopping Behavior Isn't Enough · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

• 0:00
  Hey everybody. As a friendly reminder, this is
• 0:02
  a part of our phase two series recording.
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  Phase 2 is focused on development and integration and
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  increasing internal capacity. It's not about behavior control.
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  So this episode is going to address some of the core
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  misunderstandings and recovery that and it's specifically the
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  belief that addiction is a willpower problem rather than
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  like a self perpetuating system that we need to understand
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  better and disrupt. So this episode is foundational
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  for us understanding why stopping behavior alone is often
• 0:32
  going to fail even when we have sincere motivation.
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  I do want to recognize before we jump to the episode here that
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  this is the one topic here in phase two of our men's programs
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  that is also in and talked about extensively inside of our phase
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  one program because we won't understand the addictive system.
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  So I want to highlight some of the confusion of knowing the
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  consequence of this carrying deeply and still feeling pulled
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  back into the same cycle. I think it's exhausting, often
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  feeling like you're fighting yourself rather than
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  understanding what you're up against.
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  So let's jump into that today. Let's talk about the experience
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  of repeating behaviors and genuinely don't want them to
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  repeat them and not knowing why I can't stop.
• 1:21
  Welcome to Beyond the Facade podcast.
• 1:23
  I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and I'm thrilled to have you join me
• 1:26
  in the space today. What we're going to be doing is
• 1:28
  diving deep into the trials and triumphs and truths of seeking
• 1:32
  authenticity. Becoming your true self isn't
• 1:34
  about a single action or a moment.
• 1:36
  It's a relentless pursuit, a commitment to self that reveals
• 1:40
  a rich connection and meaning that our life.
• 1:42
  Has to offer. So whether this is your first
• 1:44
  time tuning in or you're a regular listener, know this What
• 1:47
  you're building here goes beyond a.
• 1:49
  Conversation. You're here to challenge, to
• 1:51
  change, and to celebrate the incredible journey of becoming
• 1:55
  your authentic self. Because when you dare to.
• 1:57
  Show up fully. The rewards are immeasurable.
• 1:59
  So welcome to Beyond the Facade. Let's get started.
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  I think I want to start off this podcast episode by talking about
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  one of my favorite quotes out there.
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  If you haven't got a chance to read the book Atomic Habits by
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  James Clear, he has this quote in here that says you do not
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  rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your
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  systems. Oh my gosh, I just love that you
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  do not rise to the level of your goals.
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  You fall to the level of your systems.
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  So often Ben are going like, man, I guess I just, I don't
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  know what's wrong with me. I just have a willpower problem.
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  It's not a willpower problem. The problem is the system that
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  you have to tackle life. What we're going to do is we're
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  going to get into the addictive system Today.
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  I want to give credit to where credit is due, The addictive
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  system credit Patrick Carnes and so much of his work for
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  understanding this. Many men recovery attempts focus
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  exclusively on stopping the acting out behaviour, but
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  stopping the behaviour is really necessary.
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  It doesn't address the internal structure that produces the
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  behaviour. All right.
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  So it exists for a reason. The behaviour exists and men
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  often experience like a lot of short term success, but it's
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  followed by relapse, a bunch of discouragement, and a bunch of
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  shame and this leads to the conclusion that they lack a lot
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  of discipline. I guess I just not trying hard
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  enough. I need to try harder next time.
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  There's a lot of sincerity in that, and there's a lot of words
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  of commitment. But in reality there's a system
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  that exists that remains intact even when the behavior is
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  temporarily. I'll use the word suppressed
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  here, the because the system hasn't changed and we're going
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  to talk about addiction as a closed loop system.
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  So addiction operates as a closed loop system that
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  regenerates itself unless it's interrupted and we don't know
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  what it is for it to regenerate itself.
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  So once it's activated, the system moves forward with a lot
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  of momentum. And without the awareness in
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  those early interventions, the cycle repeats itself
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  automatically over and over and over again.
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  And not only does it repeat itself, those pathways get
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  carved deeper and deeper and deeper.
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  So the goal of recovery is not just to like be abstinent from
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  behavior, but it's about disrupting the system that
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  exists. There is an engine of the
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  system. The engine of the system is core
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  beliefs. So at the center of this
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  addictive system, those core beliefs, they're usually
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  unconscious and they're identity based.
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  It's what I believe about myself.
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  And these beliefs are often expressed as like I am
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  statements. And listen to some of these I am
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  statements. I am worthless, I am unlovable,
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  I am broken, I'm intrinsically broken.
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  I am alone, I'm hopeless. OK, so these beliefs are often
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  like they originate and like those earlier life experiences
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  we've talked about over those last couple episodes.
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  And those are the attachments we were talking about an addiction
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  temporarily soothe the pain that's generated by those
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  beliefs, but they reinforce things really long term.
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  OK, But there is temporary pain. There is temporary relief from
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  that pain, but the consequences accumulates and those beliefs
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  deepen. And that's what I talked about,
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  the pathway getting carved deeper and deeper, and it
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  strengthens that system. And those beliefs become what
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  feels like reality. It feels.
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  So that's just what it is, but it's not shared.
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  The engine of the system score beliefs.
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  But what's next? The impaired thinking is next.
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  That's the permission. It's not the logic.
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  So impaired thinking exists to give permission for the relief
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  seeking behavior. You know, it's OK.
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  What allows me the end of the day to be able to do this, to be
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  able to keep going back to those things that I think are so
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  problematic. It's the impaired thinking.
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  So it's not primarily like irrational or illogical, but it
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  is very strategic early impaired thinking.
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  It minimizes risk and the impact in advanced impaired thinking
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  after being in there for a long time creates like that false
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  plan. The exceptions, the comparisons
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  in there, some of them are just ugly to think about.
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  I'm not going to get my own needs met unless I do it for
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  myself. I can only rely on myself.
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  Like nobody's actually there for me.
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  Early impaired thinking, it's not, It doesn't feel that
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  irrational. It doesn't feel that illogical.
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  But in advanced impaired thinking, it creates like lots
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  of exceptions, a lot of comparisons.
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  And that functions that impaired thinking is like reduces that
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  internal conflict inside of self that moves the system forward.
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  A lot of partners ask question like how, why?
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  How could he do this? Why would he even allow himself
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  to even go there? That's advanced impaired
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  thinking. That's not early on impaired
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  thinking and it allows us to move forward.
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  So challenging our impaired thinking requires a lot of
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  exposure and a lot of accountability.
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  Not that internal argument. I'd like to just kind of note
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  here for a second that if we have these core beliefs and we
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  have the impaired thinking, sometimes there's recovery
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  programs that don't really talk about that stuff.
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  They jump right to what I'm now about to jump to, which is the
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  addictive cycle. So let's talk about that for a
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  second, but then I'm going to come back to these pieces of the
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  core beliefs and the impaired thinking.
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  So the addictive cycle, what's inside of it?
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  Preoccupation, that's that mental and emotional obsession
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  with relief. I cannot deal with this pain
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  right now. And it's characterized and like,
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  have you guys ever heard of the word like euphoric recall?
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  You go back to past thoughts, past dramatizations, you become
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  preoccupied with things and the brain begins activating the
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  reward, the memory and the motivation parts, the motivation
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  systems. So we become preoccupied and how
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  to get ourselves out of that pain.
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  So then what comes up next is a ritualization.
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  That's where our brains and our bodies, and this is human really
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  like predictable. So predictable behaviors that
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  move a person closer to acting out.
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  That includes like the planning, that includes the secrecy.
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  That includes the scanning, the positioning, and the rehearsal,
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  All those things that actually there's also a bunch of benefit
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  from them coming from the rituals itself, the planning,
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  the secrecy, the scanning, because it we're not in reality
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  anymore, Neurochemical activation increases before the
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  behavior occurs. So we're already getting hits of
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  doping. We're already getting hits.
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  We're already leaving reality. We're already the benefit of not
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  to deal with the pain even when we're in the ritual.
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  Then we have the acting out. That's the behavior itself.
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  That's the thing that we're thinking is the problem when we
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  have so many things that came before the ritual, the
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  preoccupation, the impaired thinking, the core beliefs.
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  OK, so the behavior itself shows up and that produces like
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  intense the temporary and temporary reward and it
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  reinforces the brains association between relief and
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  the behavior itself. OK, then what happens after we
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  act out? And then there's shame and
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  despair. There's that emotional crash
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  following the behavior. There's some shame, guilt,
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  isolation, despair, and that reinforces that core belief that
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  we went through a while ago and fuels that renewed
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  preoccupation. OK, so shame, let's think about
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  it as fuel and not motivation. So shame doesn't interrupt the
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  addictive system, that strengthens it.
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  OK, we think it would. We think if we shame ourselves
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  enough, we have enough shame that it would.
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  But shame increases secrecy and increases isolation, and that's
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  self attack that just that self hatred.
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  So we have attempts to use shame as motivation, but it just
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  deepens the cycle. So in phase two, shame is like
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  going to start to be reframed as a signal rather than a weapon.
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  So a shame, instead of running from it, it's acknowledging,
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  going and what is happening right now.
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  What is the message that my body's trying to tell me and we
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  want to talk about? I like to call it upstream
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  intervention. The role of secrets.
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  So often it's like stopping secrets, not doing secrets
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  anymore, lying like a preoccupation with the thing of
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  your partner is so hurt by it, which is the lies of the most
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  hurtful part. Let's talk about that.
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  So the most dangerous part of the addictive system is the
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  secrecy. Secrets most often live in
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  these. Let's think about these parts of
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  the process. Where does it live in the
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  secrets? Secrets lived in the impaired
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  thinking. It lives in the obsession.
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  It lives in the ritualization. OK, so by the time someone asks
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  for help at the acting out stage, momentum is often already
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  too strong. That's why you have a
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  screensaver of your family on your computer.
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  Why doesn't it work if you have a picture of your family and
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  your wallets? Why doesn't it work?
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  And because because by then it's too strong if we're in an acting
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  out stage and sustainable recovery requires interrupting
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  that system earlier and it's identifying what that system is.
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  So disclosure and asking for help upstream weakens that
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  system before it accelerates, before it gets moving too fast.
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  And often it's not even real life how fast it's moving.
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  OK, so let's stop for a second and talk about our partners and
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  what they experience. And I'm talking to the partners
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  right now too, The betrayed partner they have to experience.
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  The addictive system is like a lot of unpredictability.
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  There's a lot of emotional absence.
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  Like where is my partner? The obviously there's betrayal
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  in it, but they're like, I feel like I'm that person, not really
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  there. So even when behavior stops, the
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  system may still be active internally.
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  I think that's what scares partners often.
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  And that's where it can never feel like when you're the, when
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  you're the betrayed partner, thinking about the betraying
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  partner, acting like there's enough ever going to be enough.
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  Why can't you just be happy that I'm not acting out?
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  It's because there's other things that are in play that are
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  still a part of the system that keeps it alive, that it's kind
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  of like buried alive, but it's not dead.
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  So even when the behavior stops, the system can still be active
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  internally. So without that system level
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  work, repair can feel like shallow or incomplete.
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  So understanding the system is going to allow from some
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  accountability, but not some moral collapse.
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  And true repair is going to require disrupting that system,
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  not just apologizing for the outcomes.
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  Apology matters. So when I think when I'm
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  talking, I'm thinking about them to the betrayed partner, their
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  expectation, your expectation of behavior change, not being just
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  stopping the porn, but it's so much bigger than that or
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  stopping the cheating that it's a system is absolutely correct.
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  So it's not going to that's where it scares me so much when
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  a partners just like, you know, have this miraculous experience.
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  So they just stop acting out and they don't act out anymore.
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  It's like, well, there had to be a system there that put all this
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  into motion that keeps all this stuff alive.
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  And it's not just something that there's miracles and just stops
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  happening. It's the why did that stop
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  happening? All right, so understand the
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  addictive system does not automatically dismantle it.
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  All right? So just because we have this
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  podcast episode and you're have some awareness now, some things
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  you didn't have before didn't dismantle anything.
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  Systems change through the repeated awareness, like
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  repeated interruption and relational accountability.
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  So willpower alone cannot override a system designed for
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  survival at all. So frustration of the stage
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  often signals like readiness for deeper, more integrated work.
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  So if you find yourself listening to this episode, maybe
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  there's some frustration as you as a partner or as you as the
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  person that betrayed your partner that suffers from
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  compulsive behavior. That frustration inside yourself
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  can signal like readiness for that deeper work, for more
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  integrated, more work or recognize the system that's in
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  place. Just again, friendly invitation
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  for you. Phase two, if you've not been a
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  part of phase two, it's going to focus on dismantling that
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  addictive system rather than fighting the urges alone.
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  OK, so the work moves intervention like upstream.
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  I keep using that word. It moves the work upstream,
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  which is now it goes into addressing the beliefs.
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  We're not just talking about the acting out behavior.
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  We're talking about the belief. That's the engine of the system.
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  We're going to expose that impaired thinking, like what are
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  the thoughts that eventually start off more logical and then
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  go to a place of no logic, not being logical at all.
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  And then we're going to interrupt that secrecy.
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  We're going to talk about the ugly.
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  We're going to talk about the stuff we don't want to be
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  talking about. And it's going to feel different
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  when we do because instead of using those old patterns, we're
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  going to talk about what's actually happening.
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  We're going to ask for help earlier.
• 15:00
  And Phase 2 is going to emphasize that second order
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  change, not that surface level control.
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  It's not going to be just about the acting out behavior.
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  It's about what fuels it. So again, I just want to honor
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  Khan's framework here like this. That's so grateful for the work
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  that he's done and the people around him.
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  And I want to keep this addiction mechanical, not moral.
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  And let's name the intervention that must occur.
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  That's the secrets. It's the it's the understanding,
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  the system that's in place. So again, this podcast series is
• 15:33
  created to recognize what phase two work consists of.
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  The system doesn't die just because the behavior is not
• 15:40
  there for a period of time. OK, good to spend time with you.
• 15:43
  Next time we're going to go into embodied healing.
• 15:45
  I'm excited or have a lot of back for that one because this
• 15:49
  is gives me goosebumps even thinking about embodied healing
• 15:53
  with how much lands up here. It has to land here.
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  It has to land here. After you embody this so our
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  body starts responding differently.
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  This is not understanding what why cognition alone isn't
• 16:09
  enough. OK, talk to you next time.
• 16:14
  If you're a man who's trying to show up differently for your
• 16:16
  partner after betrayal, then listen closely.
• 16:19
  The Helper Heal Intensive is a four day immersive experience
• 16:22
  built for men who are ready to take responsibility, build
• 16:26
  emotional skill and become safer partners.
• 16:28
  This isn't talk therapy, it's a hands on training and how to
• 16:31
  regulate, listen and respond without getting defensive when
• 16:35
  things get hard at home. You'll work alongside other men
• 16:38
  who are also serious about change in a focus confidential
• 16:41
  setting so you're not trying to figure this out alone.
• 16:44
  My name is Hallie Roderick and I'm both a professional and
• 16:47
  someone who's lived through betrayal recovery.
• 16:49
  Our team is here to give you the structure, the tools, and the
• 16:53
  feedback you need to show up with consistency and integrity
• 16:56
  in a way that supports real safety for your wife.
• 16:59
  You'll leave with a clear plan for how to act differently,
• 17:02
  communicate better, and continue rebuilding trust when you go
• 17:05
  home. Check out the show notes For
• 17:07
  more information or how to register.
• 17:09
  If you're serious about helping her heal, this is where you
• 17:12
  start. Hey, thanks for joining us
• 17:19
  today. If this is something that.
• 17:20
  You connected with? I'd love to meet with you more
• 17:23
  and talk about it. So what you can do is go to
• 17:25
  chooserecoveryservices.com or check the show notes and there
• 17:29
  what we can do is set up a quick.
• 17:30
  Conversation we need. Thanks so much for listening to
• 17:33
  Beyond the Facade where we. Unmask the authentic self.