Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 31

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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 31 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Day thirty one, Nancy Guthrie missing.
0:12
Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like it before, with.
0:15
Speaker 1: This amount of evidence, the guys on video.
0:19
Speaker 2: We have his height, we have his weight, we have
0:22
Speaker 2: the date.
0:22
Speaker 1: We've got the time, We've got fifty thousand tips. Nancy
0:27
Speaker 1: Guthrie still missing. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
0:32
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
0:35
Speaker 2: So, Sheriff, it's been thirty days since Nancy Guthrie went missing.
0:38
Speaker 1: Our investigators is any closer to finding the suspect or suspects?
0:41
Speaker 2: I think the investigators are are definitely closer.
0:44
Speaker 3: We got a lot of intel, a lot of leads,
0:47
Speaker 3: but now it's time to.
0:48
Speaker 4: Just go to work.
0:49
Speaker 5: This is Sheriff Nanos from our friends at the Today Show.
0:52
Speaker 1: Day thirty one, Nancy Guthrie still missing. The reward now
0:58
Speaker 1: up to over one point two million dollars. Straight out
1:02
Speaker 1: to Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Matt Dave, what's the latest, Nancy.
1:08
Speaker 5: It has been a remarkable twenty four hours. Yet we
1:13
Speaker 5: saw Savannah and her sister Annie and Annie's husband as
1:18
Speaker 5: it was such an emotional time as they went to
1:21
Speaker 5: the memorial, the makeshift memorial at Nancy Guthrie's home. It's
1:25
Speaker 5: right on the edge of the property, set up by
1:28
Speaker 5: neighbors and just people who want to show the Guthrie
1:31
Speaker 5: family that you know, they're thinking of them. But Annie
1:35
Speaker 5: and Tomaso joined Savannah as they walked arm in arm
1:39
Speaker 5: to this makeshift memorial and left a note for their mother.
1:44
Speaker 5: And I'm telling you it was just so powerful. Also,
1:50
Speaker 5: you know, from the madness, we've had a lot of
1:54
Speaker 5: streaming people, you know, people who are journalists or claimed
1:57
Speaker 5: to be journalists. But there was a shocking moment that
2:01
Speaker 5: has taken place out in front of Nancy Guthrie's home,
2:05
Speaker 5: and it kind of goes back to why the Sheriff's
2:09
Speaker 5: department has moved everyone away from the neighborhood. You know,
2:14
Speaker 5: the media, legitimate media, streamers, everybody have been backed up
2:19
Speaker 5: and there's also coming out right now. We had two
2:24
Speaker 5: people detained early on in the investigation. It ended up,
2:29
Speaker 5: if you remember, a range rover was taped off in
2:33
Speaker 5: a Culver's parking lot and law enforcement searched this thing.
2:39
Speaker 5: They searched that, they took it back to the lab
2:41
Speaker 5: and did everything they do in searching this range robber,
2:44
Speaker 5: but they also served two search warrants at the same
2:48
Speaker 5: time and actually detained thirty seven year old Luke Daily
2:53
Speaker 5: and his mother Mary. These people have been outed, I
2:59
Speaker 5: guess the only way to put it by some people
3:02
Speaker 5: online that are suggesting that Luke Daily is the kidnapper
3:07
Speaker 5: in the video. And Luke Daily, the only reason I'm
3:10
Speaker 5: even mentioning his name is because he actually has come
3:12
Speaker 5: out publicly to say I'm the guy that was detained.
3:16
Speaker 3: It was my range rover and I have nothing to
3:20
Speaker 3: do with this. So we've got that information now coming out.
3:25
Speaker 5: And then that Luke and his mother both speaking out publicly,
3:28
Speaker 5: would like to add something. And the search warrants that
3:33
Speaker 5: were served at two different locations for the Guthrie as
3:37
Speaker 5: part of the Guthrie investigation married Daily, Luke Daily's mother.
3:44
Speaker 5: She's seventy seven years old, and while they were serving
3:47
Speaker 5: a search warrant on her home, she was detained in
3:50
Speaker 5: the back of a police squad car for seven hours
3:55
Speaker 5: in a car while they served that search warrant. And
3:59
Speaker 5: I guess it's just one of those little sidebar things
4:01
Speaker 5: you don't think about, you know, of what happens when
4:04
Speaker 5: they serve a search warrant to the people who live there,
4:06
Speaker 5: especially if the people.
4:07
Speaker 3: Involved had nothing to do with the crime.
4:10
Speaker 5: So those are the latest things that are really making
4:14
Speaker 5: noise today. Also, there has been an interesting take on
4:20
Speaker 5: senior citizen communities such as where Nancy Guthrie lives, and
4:26
Speaker 5: they seem to be very safe. You would think that
4:30
Speaker 5: if your mom and dad live in an area like
4:32
Speaker 5: this in their retirement, their golden years, that they would
4:34
Speaker 5: be safe. It's not necessarily the case. In neighborhoods like
4:38
Speaker 5: Nancy Guthries. You're not living right next door to a neighbor.
4:42
Speaker 5: There's a good amount of distance between you, and oftentimes
4:46
Speaker 5: in these neighborhoods, people don't know one another. So if
4:49
Speaker 5: you don't know your neighbor because you don't see them regularly,
4:53
Speaker 5: or you just don't know them, you know, then you
4:56
Speaker 5: don't know their patterns, you don't know when something might
4:59
Speaker 5: seem off, and that's something to think about, and some
5:03
Speaker 5: experts have chimed in on that in the last forty
5:05
Speaker 5: eight hours talking about these retirement type communities and how
5:09
Speaker 5: they're not as safe, even gated communities not nearly as
5:12
Speaker 5: safe as we would like to believe they are. So
5:15
Speaker 5: that was fascinating. It's one of the things we have
5:17
Speaker 5: found out in Nancy Guthrie's case. There are a number
5:21
Speaker 5: of other things involved in this investigation that are continuing
5:25
Speaker 5: to move forward, and you know, we're just going to
5:28
Speaker 5: have to wait our turn, I guess. But to go
5:31
Speaker 5: back to Savannah Guthrie yesterday, you know, we talked a
5:36
Speaker 5: minute ago about the notes left behind. There was a
5:40
Speaker 5: note left at the memorial, the makeshift memorial Cameron Guthrie,
5:45
Speaker 5: by the way, Savannah's older brother.
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Speaker 3: He was not present.
5:49
Speaker 5: I don't know if he's still in the Tucson area
5:52
Speaker 5: or if he's gone back home, but they left a
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Speaker 5: note for the at the memorial, speaking directly to Nancy Guthrie.
6:02
Speaker 5: It says, Mama, we miss you so much. Our hearts
6:06
Speaker 5: are broken. We are standing on ash unscorched earth. But Mom,
6:11
Speaker 5: though we are surrounded by so much darkness and uncertainty,
6:15
Speaker 5: our love burns bright. We love you, mommy, We miss
6:18
Speaker 5: you so much. Our best friend. Then, later in the day,
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Speaker 5: after the public got notice of the memorial or the
6:26
Speaker 5: mix of memorial, Savannah Guthrie posted on Instagram a private
6:30
Speaker 5: message by the way.
6:32
Speaker 3: This was the first.
6:33
Speaker 5: Time other than in video form, that Savannah Guthrie has
6:37
Speaker 5: been seen out in public since all of this started
6:41
Speaker 5: on February first, we have seen the family on video.
6:45
Speaker 5: This is the first time actually seen out in public.
6:49
Speaker 5: Later in the day, Savannah Guthrie released this on Instagram.
6:53
Speaker 5: We feel the love and prayers from our neighbors, from
6:55
Speaker 5: the Tucson community and from around the country. Please don't
6:59
Speaker 5: stop and hoping with us bring her home. So that
7:04
Speaker 5: kind of gets you updated on what's taking place right
7:07
Speaker 5: now in the Guthrie investigation in Tucson. So now the
7:11
Speaker 5: biggest question is where do we go from here? What's
7:14
Speaker 5: the next step in the investigation.
7:16
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnaugh joining US former homicide detective with over three
7:21
Speaker 1: hundred homicides under his belt, now director at Cold Case
7:25
Speaker 1: Foundation and star of the Interview Room on YouTube. Chris
7:31
Speaker 1: McDonough if you were handling this case, what would you
7:34
Speaker 1: be doing right now?
7:36
Speaker 6: So, Nancy, I think here's what's going to happen right now.
7:40
Speaker 6: The investigation has compressed, that's what we would call it, meaning,
7:45
Speaker 6: you know, the task force where there was a command
7:48
Speaker 6: center for both the FBI and the PEMA County Sheriff's Office,
7:52
Speaker 6: you know, had assembled together in one working group, has
7:56
Speaker 6: now split into two. There have been investigators assigned from
8:02
Speaker 6: the Pima County Sheriff's Office, who my best estimate is
8:06
Speaker 6: going to be the same homicide team that was called out.
8:10
Speaker 4: From the very beginning.
8:12
Speaker 6: They are now pulled back into their own agency where
8:16
Speaker 6: they'll be working alongside probably one FBI agent. And then
8:22
Speaker 6: the FBI has pulled back into the Phoenix headquarters where
8:26
Speaker 6: they're going to establish.
8:27
Speaker 4: Their own little war room is what we'll call it.
8:33
Speaker 6: And from there, both of those agencies will work simultaneously.
8:38
Speaker 4: Both of those agencies.
8:39
Speaker 6: Will work together, but they will be working in tandem
8:44
Speaker 6: on any type of investigative leads that come in. So
8:48
Speaker 6: I think at this point what I believe is going
8:51
Speaker 6: to be pivotal in relationship to solving this investigation. First
8:56
Speaker 6: of all, it's going to have to go back to
9:00
Speaker 6: reinterviewing all the other folks that you started to interview
9:03
Speaker 6: from the very beginning, because the reason for that is
9:09
Speaker 6: the investigation may have uncovered, you know, additional information like
9:14
Speaker 6: digital footprints, DNA and all of that stuff that's starting
9:17
Speaker 6: to come back. Well, you may have an original statement
9:22
Speaker 6: from somebody early on. So it's imperative that investigators go
9:27
Speaker 6: back and they sit down with the initial witnesses that
9:32
Speaker 6: they spoke to in the very beginning, because a lot
9:35
Speaker 6: of times witnesses also will recall events that they forgot,
9:40
Speaker 6: you know, to tell investigators, and that you know, you
9:43
Speaker 6: just never know. There could be one word that could
9:46
Speaker 6: change the course of the entire focus. And then I
9:51
Speaker 6: think that when the DNA starts to come back, and
9:54
Speaker 6: depending on what type of DNA they're trying to you know, get,
9:59
Speaker 6: that could take.
9:59
Speaker 4: A look little bit longer.
10:00
Speaker 6: So this is really a focused investigation now from the
10:07
Speaker 6: digital footprint. And I believe that's probably why they started,
10:12
Speaker 6: you know, taking up the car avenue, you know, where
10:16
Speaker 6: they got the range Rover.
10:18
Speaker 4: They served some search warrants.
10:20
Speaker 6: I believe those individuals came into that geographic or excuse me,
10:24
Speaker 6: the geo fencing that they had established post the crime
10:30
Speaker 6: and pre crime, so they saw networks coming in, cell phones,
10:37
Speaker 6: that type of stuff, and then they started contacting those people.
10:41
Speaker 6: And what did you get. You've got a DoorDash driver.
10:44
Speaker 6: You've got a guy driving a range Rover who says, hey, yeah,
10:48
Speaker 6: I drive through that area, etc. So those search warrants
10:51
Speaker 6: were established pretty quickly. And then of course you've had
10:55
Speaker 6: the bitcoin problem that was out there.
10:58
Speaker 4: They hit the guy on lost hair Angelo's pretty fast.
11:01
Speaker 6: And so what they're doing is they're just checking off
11:03
Speaker 6: the boxes and then once those boxes are all checked,
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Speaker 6: they're going to see what's left. And that's where you know,
11:12
Speaker 6: good old gumshoe police work, where you just go, you know,
11:15
Speaker 6: knocking on doors and you start reinterviewing people over again,
11:20
Speaker 6: and that's where you get the anomalies in an investigation.
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Speaker 5: Typically, Chris, what vehicles have been returned to their proper
11:28
Speaker 5: owners at this point?
11:29
Speaker 6: At this point, Dave, what you have is the range
11:34
Speaker 6: Rover has been returned the So there were three cars
11:38
Speaker 6: in my understanding that were actually impounded, the range Rover,
11:42
Speaker 6: the victim's car, Nancy's and the daughter's car. Believe it
11:45
Speaker 6: or not, Annie's car or Annie's family car. Nancy's car
11:51
Speaker 6: is still being hold for obvious reasons, you know the
11:53
Speaker 6: fact that she's you know, the missing victim here. However,
11:57
Speaker 6: the authorities at Pima County Share Department have not released
12:02
Speaker 6: any car.
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Speaker 4: They're not also telling us why that is the case.
12:08
Speaker 6: And so that's somewhat of a mystery right now, why
12:10
Speaker 6: they would hold that car for almost a month.
12:19
Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
12:25
Speaker 1: RV.
12:26
Speaker 2: Brandt joining US.
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Speaker 1: Former Senior Inspector US Marshall Service, International Investigations Branch, Chief
12:33
Speaker 1: Inspector with the DJ International Affairs Country Attache. Has been
12:39
Speaker 1: all over the world working in embassies and author of
12:43
Speaker 1: a series on Amazon of Jack Solo. The most recent
12:49
Speaker 1: going solo The Gospel of Luke or Thank You for
12:53
Speaker 1: Being with Us. We can't get away from the possibility.
12:58
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie, what's taken to Mexico? How do you go
13:02
Speaker 1: about extricating someone from Mexico?
13:05
Speaker 7: Well, it is it will be a lot different than
13:09
Speaker 7: what you would conduct here in the United States, and
13:12
Speaker 7: you would partner up, you would have a liaison with
13:18
Speaker 7: your Mexican counterparts.
13:21
Speaker 4: But the.
13:23
Speaker 7: Agencies like the FBI in the United States, Marshall Service
13:27
Speaker 7: and things like that, when we send people to these countries,
13:32
Speaker 7: these are people who are very proficient in Spanish and
13:35
Speaker 7: they're very familiar with the culture. You know, a lot
13:40
Speaker 7: of them have families on both sides of the borders.
13:43
Speaker 7: They know how to work an operation and they know
13:48
Speaker 7: how to conduct an investigation in Mexico. It's not like
13:53
Speaker 7: you know a stranger coming from Abad. I don't know
13:57
Speaker 7: the names of the streets and you know things like that.
14:00
Speaker 7: But that's not the case. They know these cities backwards
14:04
Speaker 7: and forwards, and they know the law enforcement in there.
14:08
Speaker 7: It's not going to be a problem for them to
14:12
Speaker 7: conduct these investigations and follow whatever leads come up.
14:17
Speaker 1: Brandt, there are huge swaths of thousands of acres that
14:22
Speaker 1: are uninhabited.
14:23
Speaker 2: Where do you start.
14:24
Speaker 7: Well, to go into Mexico to search and to basically
14:29
Speaker 7: what you're saying is to conduct a criminal investigation on
14:35
Speaker 7: and a sovereign nation, you have to seek permission, and
14:40
Speaker 7: it would go through our legal attaches that we have
14:44
Speaker 7: at our embassies and our consulates, and Mexican authorities are
14:49
Speaker 7: more than willing to cooperate with US law enforcement. And
14:55
Speaker 7: we have a very large presence in MEXICOI has a
15:00
Speaker 7: large presidence in Mexico. The DEA has a large presidence
15:04
Speaker 7: in Mexico. The United States Marshall Service has a large
15:09
Speaker 7: President's presidence in Mexico. And all these agencies will work together,
15:15
Speaker 7: they will pull the resources, they'll pull. My man their
15:18
Speaker 7: manpower together, and they all have liaisons with the Mexican
15:24
Speaker 7: federal police, but also the police in the jurisdictions that
15:30
Speaker 7: you're going to, you know, into the towns, into the
15:33
Speaker 7: things like that, and they will help facilitate the federal
15:40
Speaker 7: agents getting in and talking and following up on these
15:45
Speaker 7: leads and doing searches.
15:47
Speaker 1: Brant, how far into Mexico if this is a viable alternative,
15:52
Speaker 1: how far into Mexico do you think the purps would
15:55
Speaker 1: have gone?
15:56
Speaker 7: Well, the first thing, the place that I would hit
16:00
Speaker 7: first are the places that are closest. You would start
16:06
Speaker 7: where you would possibly think the eai easiest border crossing
16:10
Speaker 7: would be. You know, you define what that is. Then
16:16
Speaker 7: you concentrate your law enforcement, you know, with the photographs
16:21
Speaker 7: and you know the materials that they need, and start
16:25
Speaker 7: there and do it very intensely. And if you get
16:28
Speaker 7: zero results, zero leads, that's when you start expanding it out.
16:33
Speaker 7: And I would expand it out along the border before
16:38
Speaker 7: going deeper into Mexico. The thing, the objective, the first
16:43
Speaker 7: thing that you would want to know is where they
16:46
Speaker 7: crossed at. Then that would give you a bigger clue
16:50
Speaker 7: as to where.
16:51
Speaker 4: They were going.
16:52
Speaker 7: You know, once they're inside of Mexico. So I mean
16:56
Speaker 7: it's very different if you cross from uh, you know,
17:02
Speaker 7: San Diego for example, into Tijuana, as opposed to you
17:06
Speaker 7: crossed from El Paso into war as Yeah, I mean
17:10
Speaker 7: that that would change the scope of the investigation dramatic.
17:15
Speaker 1: Brent, you have dealt with all sorts of offenders all
17:19
Speaker 1: around the world.
17:20
Speaker 2: What's your take on this guy?
17:22
Speaker 7: If you were going to write how not to conduct
17:25
Speaker 7: a kidnapping, this is this is the perfect example. This
17:31
Speaker 7: case makes no sense.
17:34
Speaker 4: It.
17:35
Speaker 7: Kidnapping is a crime as old as time itself. You
17:40
Speaker 7: know people kidnapping, you know people and for ransom or
17:45
Speaker 7: for hostages to ensure things. That's been going on forever.
17:49
Speaker 7: And I have never encountered a case that's similar. I
17:55
Speaker 7: mean not even close. I've never been all my years
18:00
Speaker 7: in law enforcement, I've never heard of a case like
18:04
Speaker 7: this that devies logic. Uh. I've gone over it in
18:09
Speaker 7: my head and doing just what you said you as
18:12
Speaker 7: an investigator, you have to try to get in the
18:15
Speaker 7: mind of the kidnapper. And the only thing that you know,
18:21
Speaker 7: the only phrase that keeps coming out into my mind
18:24
Speaker 7: is what were you thinking? What were you thinking? What
18:28
Speaker 7: were you thinking, you know, this is clearly not someone
18:33
Speaker 7: who's ever did a kidnapping before. I mean, I just
18:39
Speaker 7: I can't make no sense of it, and I can't
18:43
Speaker 7: get behind the reasoning of you know, how this happened
18:48
Speaker 7: in any logical explanation for you, I don't know. It's
18:54
Speaker 7: it is just the most bizarre thing I have ever encountered.
19:00
Speaker 7: When you talk about kidnappings, there are so far many
19:05
Speaker 7: other Just like you said with the notes and things,
19:09
Speaker 7: you don't go to the media. I mean, that's the
19:12
Speaker 7: last thing you do. Can you tell the people don't
19:16
Speaker 7: go to the police and don't go to the media,
19:19
Speaker 7: or you'll never see your loved one again. I mean,
19:22
Speaker 7: that's basic kidnapping. One oh one. It seems like they
19:27
Speaker 7: went in the exact opposite way on how to conduct
19:31
Speaker 7: a kidnapping.
19:33
Speaker 2: Hi there.
19:36
Speaker 8: Coming on to say, it is day twenty four since
19:41
Speaker 8: our mom was taken in the dark of night from
19:46
Speaker 8: her bed, and every hour and minute and second and
19:53
Speaker 8: every long night has been agony since then of about
20:00
Speaker 8: her and fearing for her, aching for her, and most
20:06
Speaker 8: of all just missing her. Missing her.
20:10
Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie, you can see her deteriorating with every missive
20:16
Speaker 1: with every video plea that she issues, that reward is
20:22
Speaker 1: full of implications.
20:25
Speaker 2: For instance, earlier.
20:27
Speaker 1: Up until that time, the reward had been predicated upon
20:32
Speaker 1: the arrest and or conviction of the kidnapper.
20:37
Speaker 2: Not so anymore.
20:38
Speaker 1: The family begging for information to bring Nancy Guthrie home.
20:43
Speaker 1: This as we learn a DNA sample found in the
20:47
Speaker 1: home is absolutely definitively stranger DNA.
20:53
Speaker 2: Where was it found? When was it found? Can it
20:57
Speaker 2: be isolated and identified?
21:00
Speaker 1: A lot happening straight out to special guests joining us
21:03
Speaker 1: Mary Coleman, she is the thirteen Evening anchor at KOLD.
21:10
Speaker 1: If you will recall that was one of the stations
21:14
Speaker 1: that got a ransom note.
21:17
Speaker 2: Mary Coleman, thank you for being with us. Mary. What
21:21
Speaker 2: is the latest.
21:22
Speaker 9: Well Nancy talking about the ransom note? A lot of
21:24
Speaker 9: people have questioned why there's been silence. We personally haven't
21:29
Speaker 9: received any notes for a while now, and a lot
21:33
Speaker 9: of people are still questioning the legitimacy of those notes.
21:36
Speaker 9: Law enforcement still hasn't said one way or another, but
21:39
Speaker 9: it was clear when the family started coming out with
21:41
Speaker 9: those videos that they were taking these notes very seriously
21:45
Speaker 9: because of some of the contents of them.
21:47
Speaker 2: There was a flurry of activity.
21:49
Speaker 1: This is from our friends at Fox News, Mary Coleman
21:53
Speaker 1: joining us Kold.
21:56
Speaker 2: Also, Mary, were you there.
21:59
Speaker 1: At your station when the first note came in?
22:05
Speaker 9: The mood was still the same when I got in
22:08
Speaker 9: when we saw the first notes, just because of how
22:12
Speaker 9: put together the note was, it was pretty alarming once
22:17
Speaker 9: we started to read it a little further and we
22:19
Speaker 9: immediately handed that over to law enforcement.
22:21
Speaker 2: What was so alarming about it?
22:23
Speaker 10: I think.
22:25
Speaker 9: How eloquent this person was, frankly, Nancy. I mean, you
22:29
Speaker 9: would think, you know, some note like this would be
22:32
Speaker 9: all over the place. It's a ransom note, someone's demanding something,
22:36
Speaker 9: so you would think that they'd be in a state
22:38
Speaker 9: of shock or you know, a different state. But this
22:42
Speaker 9: person was clearly in a place where they were able
22:45
Speaker 9: to get their thoughts across. It was clear concise, and
22:50
Speaker 9: I think that was what was most alarming to us,
22:53
Speaker 9: is that that's when we said, Okay, this might be real,
22:55
Speaker 9: this might not be a hoax.
22:56
Speaker 2: What about it made you think it was real? Mary?
23:00
Speaker 10: There were some details in there that.
23:03
Speaker 9: Only a person who perhaps was with Nancy would know,
23:09
Speaker 9: and I think law enforcement finally alluded to some of
23:11
Speaker 9: those details a little bit later on a watch and
23:14
Speaker 9: some of the things that may have been in her room,
23:17
Speaker 9: and so seeing those and hearing about that was just
23:22
Speaker 9: it was a lot for us to see, and again
23:24
Speaker 9: immediately sent it over to law enforcement, who also immediately
23:27
Speaker 9: got back to us and asked for some more details
23:29
Speaker 9: so that they could try and track down who it was.
23:32
Speaker 10: And as we also mentioned.
23:34
Speaker 9: Again earlier, it's gone pretty silent from whoever this person
23:39
Speaker 9: or people is as far as notes coming into our newsroom.
23:42
Speaker 1: Mary, did that note that you observed with Kold did
23:47
Speaker 1: it offer proof of life other than the details about
23:51
Speaker 1: the inside of her room?
23:52
Speaker 9: It did not, Nancy, And we actually received two notes.
23:55
Speaker 9: The first one I would call a ransom note, the
23:58
Speaker 9: second I wouldn't. There were no demands there, but there
24:02
Speaker 9: was no proof of life in either of those notes
24:04
Speaker 9: that we received.
24:06
Speaker 1: The first one was a ransom. The second one they
24:08
Speaker 1: did not ask for a ransom.
24:10
Speaker 2: What do they want?
24:12
Speaker 10: It was more of a declaration.
24:14
Speaker 9: And unfortunately, I still can't talk too much about the
24:16
Speaker 9: contents of these notes because once again we still don't
24:18
Speaker 9: know the legitimacy of them, and law enforcement is still
24:22
Speaker 9: looking into that. But there were no requests in this note.
24:26
Speaker 9: It was more of a declaration, and I think the
24:29
Speaker 9: tone of the videos that the family released after kind
24:32
Speaker 9: of indicated what may have been in that note and
24:36
Speaker 9: how they were feeling about if these were.
24:38
Speaker 1: Legitimate exactly, Mary, I understand because the desperation exhibited in
24:45
Speaker 1: each progressive video from Savannah and her siblings tells me
24:51
Speaker 1: that they got more and more concerned, likely because of
24:54
Speaker 1: these notes. So you're not telling me this, but I
24:57
Speaker 1: am interpreting that these second note, while it did not
25:01
Speaker 1: demand a ransom or an increase in ransom, it emphasized
25:06
Speaker 1: the seriousness of the first note, and of course you
25:10
Speaker 1: guys immediately handed that over. Guys again, Mary Coleman joining
25:14
Speaker 1: us from KOLD. We've heard a lot about the missive
25:18
Speaker 1: sent to TMZ. There was also a missive sent to
25:22
Speaker 1: kg U N two sent to KOLD, and the nature
25:28
Speaker 1: of the notes and the recipients indicated to me on
25:32
Speaker 1: day one that this was someone in the Tucson area
25:36
Speaker 1: that maybe grew up hearing or watching KOLD, was very
25:42
Speaker 1: familiar with it. That said, when you read the notes,
25:47
Speaker 1: Mary Coleman, and I'm not asking you to divulge their contents.
25:51
Speaker 2: I know you won't do that.
25:53
Speaker 1: Did you believe they were real? And were you afraid
25:56
Speaker 1: for missus Guthrie?
25:58
Speaker 9: Sure, yeah, I mean the first it took us a
26:00
Speaker 9: second once we started reading a little bit further, and
26:03
Speaker 9: that's when we felt like these were legitimate claims being made.
26:07
Speaker 9: And so by the time the second one came in,
26:09
Speaker 9: we were all very alarmed by it. And I will
26:14
Speaker 9: say that, yes, absolutely, our stomach dropped and our guts
26:20
Speaker 9: were not feeling great. We were scared and still are
26:24
Speaker 9: scared for what happened to Nancy, And at the end
26:27
Speaker 9: of the day of the goal is getting her back,
26:28
Speaker 9: and that's what everyone wants right now.
26:31
Speaker 1: I know you will not divult details, but in the notes,
26:35
Speaker 1: did the per well the person writing the notes threatened
26:40
Speaker 1: specific harm to Nancy?
26:43
Speaker 9: See in the first note there was an allusion to
26:47
Speaker 9: something that may happen if a price wasn't paid. In
26:50
Speaker 9: the second note there was none of that.
26:52
Speaker 1: So the first note was more threatening than the second note.
26:55
Speaker 1: The second note was more Hey, I really meant it
26:58
Speaker 1: when I said that first.
26:59
Speaker 2: Note, sud that be accurate.
27:02
Speaker 10: Supporting the first correct.
27:04
Speaker 1: Got it, and then interestingly, a lot of the missives
27:08
Speaker 1: went dead and this is unlike any other ransom scenario
27:14
Speaker 1: I've ever seen.
27:15
Speaker 2: I've still got to get back to the DNA.
27:17
Speaker 1: That's what I want to talk about tonight, the DNA
27:20
Speaker 1: found at the scene. But Bravas Gibbons is joining US
27:23
Speaker 1: Director Operations usp A nationwide security He actually leads a
27:28
Speaker 1: team of missing persons investigators that travel the world extracting
27:33
Speaker 1: them and finding them at Uspasecurity dot Com. Also from
27:38
Speaker 1: a marine also Iraqi war Vet. Needless to say, he's
27:42
Speaker 1: seen it all, typically in a ransom, which is why
27:45
Speaker 1: a lot of people were curious about the timing of
27:49
Speaker 1: these notes. The person is kidnapped and you immediately get
27:53
Speaker 1: a ransom. They don't just hold on to an eighty
27:56
Speaker 1: four year old woman from multiple days and then go
27:58
Speaker 1: oh yeah, hey, I meant to send this.
27:59
Speaker 2: The other day, but now here it is.
28:02
Speaker 1: That was very unusual because the point of the kidnap
28:06
Speaker 1: is to get the money, and they waited for was
28:10
Speaker 1: it seventy two hours or more before the first ransom note.
28:15
Speaker 2: I find it hard to believe. Brian. You have to
28:18
Speaker 2: analyze this like it's.
28:19
Speaker 1: A Rubik's cube until you put it all together, constantly
28:22
Speaker 1: changing your theory. I wonder if they hadn't decided yet
28:29
Speaker 1: to whom they would send the ransom, because they originally
28:33
Speaker 1: sent it right to three places TMZ Kold and I
28:39
Speaker 1: believe Kgun. Did they not have it together because they
28:44
Speaker 1: had certainly been at her home before, they had taken
28:47
Speaker 1: time to stake it out. But what they didn't have
28:49
Speaker 1: their ransom idea together? What do you make of the delay?
28:52
Speaker 1: And they never, to our knowledge, have sent visual proof
28:57
Speaker 1: of life, like a video or a picture of Nancy Guthrie.
29:01
Speaker 1: They did, however, according to Mary Coleman, Kold give details
29:06
Speaker 1: from the inside of her room. Now, some of the
29:09
Speaker 1: details were already out there, like her smart watch, like
29:13
Speaker 1: the floodlight. But I'm inferring that there were more details
29:18
Speaker 1: in that ransom note that other people couldn't glean by
29:22
Speaker 1: just hopping.
29:22
Speaker 2: On the internet.
29:23
Speaker 11: Absolutely, and these ransom notes that were sent to the
29:27
Speaker 11: media outlets don't meet any of the traditional hallmarks of
29:31
Speaker 11: a kidnap and ransom case.
29:33
Speaker 4: That's something that's been.
29:34
Speaker 11: Highlighted very early on, right reaching out to the media
29:38
Speaker 11: versus directly to the family, not having a clear and
29:43
Speaker 11: distinct path for payment, and terms, not providing proof of life.
29:52
Speaker 11: You know, these are things that a typical kidnap and
29:55
Speaker 11: ransom case, the ransomer will want to be in direct
29:58
Speaker 11: contact with the Fan family to make this deal as
30:01
Speaker 11: quickly as possible, And that didn't happen here. So it
30:05
Speaker 11: really lends credence to the idea that these were opportunists
30:11
Speaker 11: and not authentic.
30:13
Speaker 1: What do we know about an accomplice? What is the
30:16
Speaker 1: theory behind that? Not only that the drum beat louder
30:21
Speaker 1: that somehow a Mexican cartel is involved. I find that
30:26
Speaker 1: very difficult to believe. Nothing about Nancy Guthrie's kidnapping has
30:32
Speaker 1: any hallmark of a cartel operation. This as Google is
30:36
Speaker 1: working fast and furious to recover even more video, possibly audio,
30:43
Speaker 1: biological matter.
30:44
Speaker 2: And DNA found in the home.
30:47
Speaker 1: This as Sheriff Nanos blurts out more strategic information, that
30:54
Speaker 1: being that he thinks there's an accomplice and that he
30:56
Speaker 1: believes Nancy Guthrie is being held close to home. Nia's
31:01
Speaker 1: flash accomplice. We know about you, and the sheriff's looking
31:06
Speaker 1: for you. Way to go, Nanos, You're like a gumball machine.
31:09
Speaker 1: I said it last night. It's up here and it
31:12
Speaker 1: just comes out you can't stop it. Not only that
31:15
Speaker 1: revealing his belief that Nancy Guthrie is close to home?
31:19
Speaker 1: Is that why we see raids on neighbors? All this
31:25
Speaker 1: is happening now and more straight out to Dave Mac,
31:27
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter and as we mentioned before, Dave Mac,
31:33
Speaker 1: the Guthrie family feeling the onus upon them to try
31:37
Speaker 1: and get searches started in Mexico.
31:41
Speaker 2: I mean, it just never ends with all their going through,
31:44
Speaker 2: you know.
31:45
Speaker 1: Dave, let me just be blunt. You and I have
31:46
Speaker 1: talked many, many, many times off camera.
31:50
Speaker 2: You were a guest, one of my.
31:52
Speaker 1: Favorite guests all the way back at HLN. I don't
31:54
Speaker 1: know if you recall that or not.
31:55
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but I remember.
31:57
Speaker 2: I don't know how. Yeah, good time.
32:00
Speaker 1: But Dave, I don't know how I would have done
32:04
Speaker 1: it if right after my fiance was murdered, I was told, okay,
32:10
Speaker 1: now you help us solve it. Okay, then get busy.
32:15
Speaker 1: It's insane. But Savannah, our friend, Savannah Guthrie, feels they
32:22
Speaker 1: have to reach out to groups in Mexico to try
32:24
Speaker 1: and find her mother. I mean insanity. But let's start
32:30
Speaker 1: with the latest. Nana's blurting out he believes that Nancy
32:34
Speaker 1: Guthrie is being held close to home. Why is he
32:36
Speaker 1: saying that? And about an accomplice? What about those polygraphs?
32:41
Speaker 1: You've heard nothing about them. Okay, day, bring me up
32:44
Speaker 1: to date.
32:45
Speaker 5: Let's start with the accomplice because this goes to the
32:48
Speaker 5: nitty gritty of you know, you've talked about how nanos
32:51
Speaker 5: just blurting stuff the other day.
32:53
Speaker 3: That's what he was doing.
32:54
Speaker 5: He blurted out that he believes there's an accomplice. And
32:59
Speaker 5: the suggestion is that we have the video of the
33:03
Speaker 5: bungling kidnapper at the front door, and we don't see
33:07
Speaker 5: a second person, but we know we've got an eighty
33:11
Speaker 5: four year old woman who lacks mobility and is going
33:14
Speaker 5: to need help to leave a lot of a lot.
33:18
Speaker 3: Of what Nano's is saying.
33:20
Speaker 5: I really think he's just kind of theorizing in his
33:23
Speaker 5: head and just blurting out ideas because he doesn't know
33:26
Speaker 5: what to say.
33:27
Speaker 1: But Nancy's suggesting, do you recall what I told you
33:32
Speaker 1: my elected district attorney, he was like a grandfather to me.
33:35
Speaker 2: Lewis Layton. At the time, he was the longest serving
33:38
Speaker 2: elected daight in the country.
33:39
Speaker 1: I believe it was thirty seven years and he had
33:43
Speaker 1: a rule, do not speak to the press, And whenever
33:47
Speaker 1: I would be cornered coming in or out of the courthouse,
33:49
Speaker 1: I would always say the same thing. They seemingly never
33:53
Speaker 1: caught on. I would always say, I believe the jury
33:58
Speaker 1: will return a true ver.
34:02
Speaker 2: That's it. That would be it.
34:05
Speaker 1: So all the spinning out, let's say, I'm just talking
34:08
Speaker 1: out loud.
34:09
Speaker 2: It's insane. That's a huge, huge.
34:12
Speaker 1: No no to Franz Borcart joining us, a criminal defense attorney,
34:17
Speaker 1: founder of Borcart's law firm, former prosecutor, professor at Louisiana
34:21
Speaker 1: State University. Franz, that's just what the defense team would
34:26
Speaker 1: love and what the kidnapper loves.
34:29
Speaker 2: He is, and it's a he.
34:31
Speaker 1: He is getting all of his information anythink he needs
34:34
Speaker 1: to know from nanos.
34:36
Speaker 12: I can't believe they are still talking to the press.
34:39
Speaker 12: And you're absolutely right, Nancy. As a defense attorney, I'm
34:44
Speaker 12: just taking notes. I'm sitting back and I'm going to
34:47
Speaker 12: do a search for any and everything that was said
34:49
Speaker 12: before the arrest because eventually they're going to make an
34:51
Speaker 12: arrest on this one. But yeah, he needs to shut
34:54
Speaker 12: his hole and just and stop because he's not helping
34:58
Speaker 12: the investigations.
35:04
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
35:10
Speaker 1: To Brian Fitzgibbons joining US and Brian, I'm going to
35:13
Speaker 1: circle back to you on the possibility that this is
35:15
Speaker 1: a cartel operation, which is far fetched, extremely far fetched.
35:20
Speaker 1: I'll get you explained why so we can put that
35:23
Speaker 1: away and get it off our table of analysis. Brian
35:25
Speaker 1: Fitzgibbons is joining US. He's the director of Operations at
35:29
Speaker 1: USPA Nationwide Security.
35:32
Speaker 2: What is that.
35:33
Speaker 1: He leads a team of investigators around the world finding
35:38
Speaker 1: missing people. He is a Marine vet. He is a
35:42
Speaker 1: former Marine and an Iraqi war vet. Let me talk
35:47
Speaker 1: to you about the possibility of an accomplice because it's
35:52
Speaker 1: been out there circulating and the nanos blurted it out
35:55
Speaker 1: that he thinks there may be an accomplice.
35:57
Speaker 2: Why he said that, I mean.
35:59
Speaker 1: Really, it's just like waving the red flag in front
36:02
Speaker 1: of a bull. It's like putting on the overhead speaker
36:06
Speaker 1: in high school. We now know there's an accomplice and
36:11
Speaker 1: we're coming after you, which in my mind would only
36:14
Speaker 1: make the accomplice panic.
36:16
Speaker 2: But that said, what leads you.
36:19
Speaker 1: To agree or disagree regarding an accomplice.
36:22
Speaker 11: I certainly agree with that, Nancy. I've been saying this
36:25
Speaker 11: since we started covering this case. First of all, just
36:30
Speaker 11: like we call him, you know, the bungling kidnapper on
36:33
Speaker 11: the porch, This is indicative to me that he's being
36:38
Speaker 11: controlled and supervised by somebody, That he did not do
36:42
Speaker 11: this alone, that this was just a foot soldier that
36:45
Speaker 11: was sent forward, you know, to disable that camera and
36:48
Speaker 11: gain entry to the house. So I think his lack
36:53
Speaker 11: of sophistication on that porch itself shows that there's there's
36:57
Speaker 11: someone else involved who's his superior.
37:01
Speaker 1: Nobody is biting about the backpack, I keep saying it
37:05
Speaker 1: and nobody's touching it with ten foot pole. Fitz Gibbons,
37:10
Speaker 1: he comes up to the scene. Let's see him when
37:13
Speaker 1: he first approaches who gave him the backpack? Because there
37:19
Speaker 1: is absolutely a moment he doesn't have the backpack. Where
37:23
Speaker 1: did it go? Who gave it to him? Was it
37:27
Speaker 1: in the car? Did he have to go retrieve it?
37:29
Speaker 1: Did he put it back in the car? So if
37:32
Speaker 1: there is a car, trust me, he didn't leave it
37:34
Speaker 1: laying out on the front lawn. So if there's a car,
37:38
Speaker 1: is somebody in the car you really think, just think
37:43
Speaker 1: about it forensically, clinically.
37:47
Speaker 2: Would he do this alone?
37:50
Speaker 1: Because the reason I care, fitz Gibbons is the more
37:54
Speaker 1: people involved, the more likely somebody's gonna talk. You've got
37:58
Speaker 1: an extra girlfriend, you got an extra grandma or mom,
38:02
Speaker 1: or an extra neighbor or little sister. Somebody knows something's up,
38:07
Speaker 1: and that reward is climbing. That's why I care. If
38:10
Speaker 1: there's an accomplice. They can both go straight to hell
38:13
Speaker 1: and burn for all I care, but I want to
38:16
Speaker 1: catch them. So what do you think about the backpack aspect?
38:21
Speaker 11: Yeah, and there's there's one I agree with you there
38:24
Speaker 11: that that backpack wouldn't have just been placed on the
38:27
Speaker 11: ground randomly. In that first video, when you see him
38:30
Speaker 11: approaching the porch, there's a shadow being cast from the
38:36
Speaker 11: left to the right, all right, indicative of that motion
38:39
Speaker 11: light that was destroyed. When you later see him without
38:43
Speaker 11: the backpack on, there is no there is no similar shadow.
38:47
Speaker 11: So you can extrapolate from that that you know he
38:52
Speaker 11: may have had tools either to gain access or to
38:55
Speaker 11: destroy that light, which we know was indeed destroyed on
38:59
Speaker 11: that side of the house.
39:00
Speaker 1: So how does that fit into the accomplished theory.
39:03
Speaker 11: Yeah, that's he's passing off that equipment after he's done
39:06
Speaker 11: with it, either storing it in a car because you know,
39:10
Speaker 11: now it's pitch black out in front of the house.
39:13
Speaker 11: You're not just going to leave the backpack and the
39:15
Speaker 11: pitch black on the ground.
39:17
Speaker 2: You know, Brian's Gibbons. That's really astute.
39:22
Speaker 1: Let me keep looking at this while Brian talks, because
39:25
Speaker 1: I want to. I want everyone to see what he's
39:27
Speaker 1: talking about. You're right, when he walks up, there is
39:30
Speaker 1: the shadow. You can see that that bright nightlight is on,
39:36
Speaker 1: and it's not just his bite light, it's lit up
39:40
Speaker 1: behind it, behind the biite light as well. Okay, then
39:44
Speaker 1: as you look later without the backpack, everything's dark. I
39:50
Speaker 1: don't believe he climbed up and got and dismantled that
39:56
Speaker 1: night light on his own.
39:58
Speaker 2: That's a really good point.
40:01
Speaker 1: Joining me, Doctor Michelle Joy, forensic clinical academic psychiatrist, author
40:07
Speaker 1: of The Schmuck in my Office. You can find her
40:10
Speaker 1: at wes Philly Morbid Art. Doctor Michelle, thank you for
40:13
Speaker 1: being with us.
40:14
Speaker 2: What do you make the.
40:16
Speaker 1: Psychological evaluation of whether he had an accomplice?
40:20
Speaker 2: Did he do this all on his own. I think.
40:26
Speaker 13: There's a lot to be garnered from the video, as
40:30
Speaker 13: the other people interviewed so far have said, But I
40:34
Speaker 13: think that what makes the most sense to me is
40:37
Speaker 13: his lack of factyleness with everything, right. I know, that's
40:42
Speaker 13: exactly that gun there. Previously, some former FBI agents had
40:47
Speaker 13: spoken about just his lack of expertise with carrying a firearm.
40:54
Speaker 13: It's kind of polstered in front of him and waving
40:57
Speaker 13: around and things like this. So I think that his
41:01
Speaker 13: lack of sophistication makes me agree with the previous person
41:05
Speaker 13: that was interviewed, was that there's someone else directing most
41:10
Speaker 13: likely this because the if being this bumbling as we've
41:14
Speaker 13: used the word so far, just at the intro to
41:17
Speaker 13: the scene, you wouldn't think that he would have coordinated,
41:20
Speaker 13: you know, anything successful enough to not only have this
41:23
Speaker 13: person and when I say successfully, obviously tragically successfully to
41:28
Speaker 13: you know, be able to extract her and to have
41:30
Speaker 13: her you know, disappear for this long. It just seems
41:34
Speaker 13: like something would have gone wrong from his perspective, you know,
41:39
Speaker 13: being a lone actor.
41:41
Speaker 1: Now there is the specter of Mexican cartel involvement. But
41:47
Speaker 1: after speaking to Border patrol officers and experts in the area.
41:51
Speaker 2: I don't buy it.
41:53
Speaker 1: Cartels usually target people within Mexico. Can anybody on this
41:58
Speaker 1: panel name a single US citizen taken from the US
42:03
Speaker 1: by the cartels? Obviously no. So I've noticed in cartail
42:09
Speaker 1: schemes they typically correspond to local events, local extortion plots,
42:16
Speaker 1: business dealings, drug issues. To Brian Fitzgibbons, do you agree
42:21
Speaker 1: or disagree you have rescued people out of Mexico. Does
42:26
Speaker 1: this have any resemblance to a cartail job?
42:31
Speaker 11: Not at all, Nancy. The primary reason is, just like
42:36
Speaker 11: you said, this is a US citizen, high profile and nature.
42:41
Speaker 11: This is going to draw an incredible amount of and
42:43
Speaker 11: it has drawn an incredible amount of media attention and
42:46
Speaker 11: an incredible amount of unwanted attention to the cartel from
42:50
Speaker 11: the US federal government. The second point that I'm going
42:54
Speaker 11: to make is all the hallmarks of a typical cartel
42:59
Speaker 11: rants and kidnapping, kidnapping, ransom operation are not being met here.
43:04
Speaker 11: There would be a clear and sophistic clear and sophisticated
43:08
Speaker 11: way to pay. They would want to be able to
43:11
Speaker 11: cash out easily and make that process very seamless. This
43:17
Speaker 11: doesn't meet any of those criteria.
43:19
Speaker 1: You know, when it comes to Mexico, Brianvsgibbons, let's just
43:23
Speaker 1: pretend for one moment that she has been moved to Mexico.
43:28
Speaker 1: That's not playing into all the crazies, any cartel theories.
43:31
Speaker 1: But if she has been moved to Mexico, what do
43:35
Speaker 1: you do to extract someone out of Mexico. We know
43:39
Speaker 1: that the FEDS are accessing iph Emilia, which is the
43:44
Speaker 1: Mexican equivalent of our DNA databank CODIS, although it's used
43:49
Speaker 1: mostly for identifying bodies in murder cases.
43:54
Speaker 2: Also, of course, they're.
43:56
Speaker 1: Looking internationally at Interpol databases. I think good news is
44:01
Speaker 1: that they are looking at the Arizona database, which is
44:05
Speaker 1: a lot less stringent. You get more information. For instance,
44:08
Speaker 1: suspects are in there, not pristine DNA DNA.
44:14
Speaker 2: Mixtures are in there.
44:16
Speaker 1: The CODAS data Bank would not allow everything that is
44:20
Speaker 1: allowed in the Arizona DNA data.
44:22
Speaker 2: Bank, and that's good for this case.
44:24
Speaker 1: That's good for the Arizona search because you've got a
44:28
Speaker 1: wider pull, just over half a million profiles in the
44:31
Speaker 1: Arizona databank. But back to Mexico, how would you extract
44:36
Speaker 1: someone from Mexico.
44:37
Speaker 11: Yeah, you know, you first need to understand that Mexico
44:41
Speaker 11: is a very non permissible environment, especially to search for
44:46
Speaker 11: a missing foreign national. This is for a few reasons. One,
44:51
Speaker 11: the levels of local government corruption in Mexico are almost
44:55
Speaker 11: unfathomable to a typical American. Second, wide swaths of territory
45:04
Speaker 11: are primarily primarily controlled by cartels. That's both from a
45:10
Speaker 11: physical security perspective and from a political perspective. And that
45:15
Speaker 11: all leads me to say that the public, especially with
45:19
Speaker 11: such a high profile case, will will lack an urgency
45:24
Speaker 11: or willingness to be involved in this search for fear
45:27
Speaker 11: of reprisals. You know, whether or not the cartel is
45:31
Speaker 11: or is not involved, they do control these areas, so
45:34
Speaker 11: the public will be very apprehensive to participate in this.
45:38
Speaker 11: And that that all leads me to say that any
45:40
Speaker 11: search in Mexico that's going to be have a positive
45:45
Speaker 11: result is going to come through US federal government diplomatic channels.
45:50
Speaker 11: That that is the number one main effort in any
45:55
Speaker 11: search taking place in Mexico.
45:57
Speaker 1: Thoma Smith and joining US former NYPD to detective worked
46:01
Speaker 1: in homicide, was with the Joint Terrorism Task Force now
46:06
Speaker 1: Star Goal Shields podcast, Tom the ransom letters, if if
46:13
Speaker 1: they are connected, how could this idgit who's trying to
46:17
Speaker 1: put reaches down and grabs a clump of plants to
46:21
Speaker 1: put over.
46:23
Speaker 2: The doorcam.
46:24
Speaker 1: How could that guy write a very eloquent, well worded,
46:29
Speaker 1: well crafted ransom note. Let's see the guy here, he
46:33
Speaker 1: goes there, that's the ticket. I'll grab these plants. Yeah, okay,
46:38
Speaker 1: that's not working. I don't see it being the same person, Tom, and.
46:43
Speaker 14: I'm not I was never ever sold on the ransom
46:47
Speaker 14: notes that I was sent to TAMZ. Never because of
46:50
Speaker 14: the time frame that it took to get them. Kidnappers
46:53
Speaker 14: don't work that way, Nancy. They grabbed their target, they
46:56
Speaker 14: set up what they want, who are they going to contact,
47:00
Speaker 14: and it's done quickly because the longer that kidnappers have
47:03
Speaker 14: their victims with them, it gives law enforcement a quicker
47:07
Speaker 14: time and a shorter time span to track them down.
47:10
Speaker 14: Kidnappings are done quickly. And on your other point, I
47:15
Speaker 14: don't think this was done by himself at all. Kidnappings
47:19
Speaker 14: are usually never done by one person, whether there's someone
47:23
Speaker 14: sitting in a car or standing and looking around as
47:26
Speaker 14: a lookout, but there is someone else in that area.
47:29
Speaker 14: Helping him to carry someone out and get someone out
47:33
Speaker 14: of a house, even remotely resisting is very, very difficult
47:39
Speaker 14: for one person to do, and then try to get
47:41
Speaker 14: them into a vehicle is a monumental task. And I
47:46
Speaker 14: never thought this was done by one person. And I
47:48
Speaker 14: still don't.
47:50
Speaker 1: You know, I am projecting, which is not helpful when
47:53
Speaker 1: you're trying to try a case that tom My Mom
47:58
Speaker 1: lives with us.
47:58
Speaker 2: She's ninety four, and when you try to pick her up,
48:02
Speaker 2: it's dead weight.
48:04
Speaker 15: When you try to help her walk, very often, I'll
48:07
Speaker 15: just get her to sit on her walker and I
48:09
Speaker 15: will wheel her wherever we're going, because it is so
48:13
Speaker 15: hard to manage her. It's like two giant tall kitchen
48:20
Speaker 15: trash bags full of sand, and they go this way
48:25
Speaker 15: and that way, and you're trying to drag them.
48:27
Speaker 2: It's hard.
48:30
Speaker 1: We know that she was upright. We believe she was
48:33
Speaker 1: upright when she first came out the door, because those
48:37
Speaker 1: blood drops are clearly low velocity droplets, and if you
48:44
Speaker 1: study them, you see that in one spot there are
48:47
Speaker 1: a couple, which means she was standing still, unable to
48:50
Speaker 1: go forward to standing there. I don't know if she's
48:52
Speaker 1: trying to get her balance, but she stood there and
48:55
Speaker 1: several droplets fell. In one place there was kind of
48:58
Speaker 1: a satellite dropping.
49:00
Speaker 2: A grouping.
49:02
Speaker 1: That said, I think someone had to help her out
49:06
Speaker 1: the front door.
49:08
Speaker 2: And that's not a one man job.
49:11
Speaker 16: Agree, disagree, absolutely not, absolutely not, and listen if she
49:15
Speaker 16: had any thought in her head. We tell you know
49:18
Speaker 16: people who might be abducted, even children, all right, Even
49:22
Speaker 16: kids drop down to the ground and become dead weight.
49:26
Speaker 16: Even a ten twelve year old kid that's laying down
49:29
Speaker 16: on the ground is hard to pick up and get somewhere,
49:32
Speaker 16: much less an eighty four year old woman. It's very difficult,
49:36
Speaker 16: and I don't think it's possible. And I am in
49:38
Speaker 16: total agreement with you that this was definitely more than
49:41
Speaker 16: one person.
49:45
Speaker 1: Reminder, there is over a one million dollar reward in place.
49:50
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the
49:53
Speaker 1: disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free eight hundred
49:58
Speaker 1: two two five five three two four repeat eight hundred
50:01
Speaker 1: two two five five three two four, or if you
50:04
Speaker 1: wish to remain anonymous, five to zero eight eight two
50:08
Speaker 1: seven four sixty three repeat five two zero eight eight
50:13
Speaker 1: two seven four sixty three I want to thank all
50:17
Speaker 1: of our guests for being with us tonight believe it
50:20
Speaker 1: or not, Day thirty one of this investigation. But I
50:25
Speaker 1: especially want to thank you for being with us and
50:27
Speaker 1: joining the investigation. Remember we are scouring Twitter, X, Insta,
50:35
Speaker 1: Facebook and reading your ideas and your tips.
50:39
Speaker 2: Please keep them coming.
50:45
Speaker 1: Betsy Grace signing off for tonight, and remember what Savannah said,
50:50
Speaker 1: pray without cease.
50:53
Speaker 2: Good night,