Latest / Sutra Squad / Ep. 15 - Sutra 1.12 On Practice and Detachment
Transcript
- Seth Barron: In the breathing process, each inhale is a doing that brings air in. Each exhale is a letting go that releases what the body no longer needs. It feels so much like surrender describing that as releasing what you no longer need. It's an action of choice. Hello and welcome to the Sutra Squad podcast brought to you by One Deep Breath. My name is Seth Barron. I am joined with the superstar Sutra Squad, Sally Moore. Hello. And Sarah Page Hall. Hello. ⁓ So this week, we've completed now the first three verses of the Yoga Sutra and we're moving on to the 12th verse in the first chapter. and ⁓ which is a ⁓ really fascinating verse on really offering depth into the nature of yoga and what we're up to and all this. But before we go there, Sarah Page, what's one word that describes how you feel right now? I'm full. mean, spiritually, emotionally, I feel good. Sally? I want to say gang horse. It's one of New Year's Day and I am ready to charge forward. I love it. I love it. Yeah, I'm feeling actually a little chuffed, like chuffed, like a little chuffed. And I'm going to prompt, I'm going to do a little surprise prompt because I'm chuffed because I thought about a new practice that I want to adopt. based on some really lovely stimulus. I had two different friends over the long weekend tell me that I was like gossiped about in like the sweetest, kindest way. ⁓ And so without using any names because it doesn't matter, ⁓ like what's one piece of like kind, thoughtful, like nice gossip you would share about somebody in your life? Like, just a nice thing you thought. Like, ⁓ that person did something nice, or I noticed that person being really amazing at something. What's one quick thing that just, what comes to the front of your mind? Wow. I mean, I would say, like, ⁓ that person, I'm not gonna say a person, just makes me feel warm and welcome. Someone who makes you feel warm and welcome. I love that. went to lunch today with one of my very favorite people and we were there for two and a half hours without breathing. We just talked the whole time and it just, I feel very lucky not just to have the two of you obviously in my life that goes without saying, but to have friends in my life that really care about me. Yeah. I'm very blessed in that respect. Yeah, because I bring that up because ⁓ it's a practice. And we'll talk about this, but it's we so often fall into a default practice and all of us are guilty. I am not immune of being in a practice of like talking about other people in a way that finds fault or makes them wrong. Tara Brock sometimes calls it bad othering. Like you make that person the other and you make it about their I was noticing like the contrast of how it feels to have been told by people who obviously I love very much that like I was the opposite like I was like like I was gossiped about but like in a really really kind Very sweet way. It's just it's like a small practice that I'm gonna start noticing for like whenever my instinct is to start like Talking smack. I'm gonna be like, hmm Is that what I want to do or like what's something else I could do? Like what's something kind I could say or what's something graceful, gracious or graceful I could say? Can I share one more thing? ⁓ So today I picked up my grandkids from school as I do the two littler ones and my one year old grandson has graduated to the 12 to 18 month classroom now and he was so pleased and so tired. that he fell asleep by the time we drove home. I'm going to make this short story. Yeah. And I really like when they both sleep at the same time, so I get a little space in my day. so I was trying to kind of, hey, Hanky, wake up, dude. He was like, not going to have it. So I put him into bed. I had a lovely time. And it's funny because this is where I'm going is the gossip was a little bit of poor me. Now these kids aren't on the same schedule. I'm having lunch with one and then the other is going to wake up. But I caught it really quick and I had a really sweet one-on-one with my two-year-old granddaughter, read her a book and put her into bed. And then he woke up right when I came down. And my original reaction didn't want to be very good, but I did that to like look at his little heart. And we actually had a really lovely little time. And I just remember thinking, thank you for trusting me. Cause he was just sort of laying on my chest. And so I think that's the kind of gossip like where you feel trust, you know, and then he brought all these amazing memories. ended up putting him in a stroller and walking around my house. It's pouring rain in Northern California where I am. And the other one was sleeping. So we were, had a pink blanket on. He was laying happily in the stroller. We were walking around the house and then I have this whole remembering how I used to push my dad in his wheelchair around town. And so I guess what I'm saying is this practice, like it kind of happened today where I had a choice to be a little like agitated and pissed off and think, what am I missing? But I'm so grateful that I caught myself and instead I gained so much. was going to say that's in your, that's, that's in your, your shifting. That's that's literally this verse that we're gonna talk about today in action, right? You put action into practice and you had no attachment to its outcome. You didn't attach to it. You didn't hold onto it. You didn't let something, an expectation ⁓ or a rightness get in the way of what was at, like what was present in the space when you let go of it. And what was possible. And because of practice, because of this practice that we do together in a very committed way in my mind, it's a daily practice. Yes. At least then I could see, you can see, am I going to let this attachment to how this should be get in the way or am I going to drop it? And it's perception, right? It's the attachment of your perception. Let's get into it. So the verse is Sutra 1.12 and it's four words. So ⁓ it's ⁓ Abhiyasa Vairagya Thanh Nirodha. And I'm gonna just notice how I'm sitting for a moment and sit up a little taller. And if it is safe for you to do so, you can certainly join me in taking a moment to bring your hands together in front of your heart. You can close your eyes. And without changing anything, without labeling any part of the experience you're having as right or wrong, maybe just get into the practice of just noticing what you can notice right now. I even love that word noticing because it's not, ⁓ it has like a really light touch. So you're like lightly, you're just lightly noticing, just to notice how it feels to be you. in your body. in your heart. in your mind. Take a deep breath in. Let it go. And for one om, inhale. Chanting Yoga Sutra 1.12. Abhyasavairagyabhyam Tannirodha Abhyasa vairagyabhyam tannirodha. Abhyasavairagyabhyam tannirodha. Abhyasavairagyabhyam tannirodha. ⁓ One sort of very generalized translation is that, And I'm just gonna, actually before I even go into that, let me just remind everyone we've talked about this word nirodha. And we talked about it in the second sutra, 1.2, which is yoga shchitta vritti nirodha. Yoga is the state in which the swirl vritti of our mind, chitta, is restrained, is brought to stillness. is when we cease to identify with our thoughts. All of that is nir-o-deha. And we talked even in our most recent exploration of that verse of like, instead of thinking of the restraint as like something like pushing down, like what if it was the restraint like you restrain a baby? Like if you've ever cared for a newborn, you swaddle them and you swaddle them like you really wrap up that little burrito baby tight. ⁓ Like to the point where when I first did it, was like, am I doing this right? My friends, my little godson, Elliot, he was 15. When I swaddled that baby, he was the first baby I ever swaddled. And I learned how to do it where you rolled them on one side and then you tuck it in and then you roll them back and then you roll the burrito, like wrap up the burrito around them. Anyway, that is actually a little bit maybe of a nicer way to think of this, like Nido de Ha. that it's like ⁓ a restraint from hugging it in, that we turn it in. it always reminds me when I think about that too, that we'll get to this in our study that later on in the beginning of the second chapter, the chapter on practice, like the sadhna pada, we're in the samadhi pada, the first chapter, when we get to really investigating practice in so much more depth, and there's endless steps to investigate. Kleshas, the obstacles to yoga, are resolved, it's said, through a process of involution. And so there's something about that idea of involution as it turns in, it eats in upon itself in order to digest and to be burned away. And there's a similar sense of that nirodha, that it's like a turning in, a pulling it in in order to resolve it as opposed to pushing it away or pushing it down. So now we get to this verse, like, you know, 10 verses later. Abhyasa vairagya viham tan nirodha. So that's the context of this word, nirodha. It's usually translated generally as practice, which is abhyasa, and detachment, vairagya, are the means by which we achieve yoga. or the means by which we achieve the restraint from which yoga can arise, you might say. But before we get too much further afield, ⁓ whichever one of you wants to go first, what is a translation of this verse that really calls to you? I really love ⁓ the Reverend Jagannath Kareya inside Patanjali's words, where he says, non-attachment, I love this, Well, right here he says, goes, it's important not to mistake non-attachment for not caring or indifference. Non-attachment is a clear, objective, unbiased state of mind. A mind firmly established in non-attachment is not without emotion. Instead, it is clear, unbiased, and loving. ⁓ Yeah. And doesn't he give a really nice, like, what's his translation of the full verse? His translation of the whole verse, hold on, is the ingrained habit of mistaking the vrittis or the swirl of the mind as the self ceases by practice and non-attachment. Wait, we're going to have to unpack that from Reverend Carrera. I like I like ingrained. like the word Say it, say it. Will you slow it down and say it pieces? The ingrained habit, and I like that too because it is a habit. The habit. The ingrained habit of mistaking the vrittis or the vortex, the swirl of the mind, as the self, as who we are. The ingrained habit of mistaking the vrittis for the self. As the self. As the self. Ceases by practice. And non-attachment. ceases by practice and non-attachment. The ingrained habit of mistaking the vrittis, the soul, as the self. So we think that, you know, we've said this before, we have thoughts, but we are not our thoughts. But we think we are. I love that language of the ingrained habit of mistaking the thoughts for the self. Yeah. Effectively, yeah. Wow. I know. Yeah. Sally, what's the translation that calls to your heart? I really had a heart. I have three of them here. And one is the one that Sarah Page just talked about. So yippee skips. I'll bring it down to two that I did also see in his book Inside the Yoga Sutras Carrera again. Both practice and non-attachment are necessary for success in yoga. They're complementary approaches that help the mind become clearer, calmer, and stronger. The combination of practice and non-attachment leads to becoming an individual who develops his or her capabilities, capacities, to the fullest and who is guided by a clear and selfless mind. So that was the ending I saw from Carrera, but I also ⁓ found two others. it's funny because I found her, ⁓ The Secret Bar of Yoga by Nikhila Joydevi. I found her translation was really different, but I loved a brief description she gave. So she says, consciousness is elevated by devoted practice, which is, and remembering the self. So that was hers was slightly different. what I love that she went on to describe that really stuck with me is that ⁓ describes practice and remembering the self as two wings of the same bird. This balance brings grace in order for the bird to soar, the bird needs both wings to flap in the same rhythm. When in balance and both wings are strengthened. Whatever challenges and encounters with these two practices, we embody the skill and assurance to ride the currents. And in full transparency, I didn't read the Sanskrit because I can't say the second. Vairagya. It sounds like another word that... I know. So, I also... Vairagya. Vairagya. Yeah, Vairagya. Vairagya. And then let me share, since I'm just on my... So, the third one is ⁓ from Unravel a Thread by Ruben Vazquez. These have been my three go-to books right now. And it says, samadhi, results from practice. Abhiyasa and freedom from attachments by Raghya. And he's, Yipiski, did I do it? I'm so glad that he carried on to say that yoga is a dynamic dance, articulating opposites into a fine balance between being and doing. This being and doing thing really kind of sounds like me. This strategy combines the doing the practice with the being letting go of attachment. In the breathing process, each inhale is a doing that brings air in, while each exhale is a letting go that releases what the body no longer needs. So I've even heard, I love the wings metaphor. I've heard that one before. And it also, it reminds me of something I haven't thought about in a really, really long time, but A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away when I was a theater student, I had to take classes in something called Alexander Technique. Oh. Which is, yeah, you did Alexander Technique, I'm sure, right? Yeah, right? I'm kicking you back, okay. Do you remember how they talked about the, thinking about the rib cage as the wings of the bird? Yes. So your rib cage expands, but it doesn't, like we tend to think of it expanding up and down. But in this methodology, they actually teach you to visualize it expanding out to the sides and they give you the metaphor of wings. ⁓ But but Sally, can you go to that last part that you said again? in the breathing process, each inhale is a doing that brings air in each exhale is a letting go that releases what the body no longer needs. It feels so much like surrender describing that as releasing what you no longer need. It's an action of choice. Well, you know, it is, and it isn't because like, If you pull a big lung full of air in, your body inevitably, like you either pass out and when you pass out, your autonomic nervous system takes back over and re-regulates your breath. And the first thing you'll do is, right? But in breathing, it is the body automatically, right? It's bringing in new life and it's letting go of what no longer serves you. I guess where I'm talking about like the act of surrender outside of breathing, that's what I'm talking about, the choice of. But yeah, you can't fill up with oxygen and then skip the exhale, which is what I think when we try to walk around the world and not let go of everything that's bogging us down, we are trying to double inhale. So this is gonna be the second point of inquiry, but let's just lean into it and keep going with this, which is around this idea of like being and doing. So let's unpack for a second. When we say that, I'm pretty sure we mean the same things. By doing we mean, you could say like, outward action, right? Like I have a very strong bias to action in my life in many, many, many contexts and in many capacities and it is something that serves me incredibly well. And I can't imagine that anyone here listening to this podcast won't have any similar sensibilities or tendencies, but it's really tricky because I have to really watch it. Because I will also just do, do, do, do, do to the point of like deflection, distraction. and I'll get so caught in the doing that I lose sight or because there's something I don't really wanna just be with. The being. is the abiding. The being is the pause, the mindful, right? Like the being is the actually being present to the doing, right? There's something too, I love ⁓ what you said from Master Kura about the ingrained habit. Right, so much of doing is habitual. Like if you think about all the things you do in your day, so many of them, really, like, and this is like, most teacher training programs have a practice around this where you just start to like notice your rituals and routines. Or even just like notice the things that you do that you don't do in like the front of your conscious mind. So like if you, if you out there, podcast listeners, All three or I don't know, 300 maybe. have every single one of you. If you know, I'm just joking about it. All four of you. Right? Great. Thank you. May you receive some benefit from our words. If you just, if you're driving a car, if you're driving a car right now, when you're listening to this, like your whole attention is not in like not wrapped in like the driving of your car. Like you're paying attention, I hope. Please pay attention. But like, you're also like listening to the radio or a podcast and you're also like thinking about your grocery list and you're also like driving the car. Now, when you first learned to drive the car, like, I don't know, I was a very cautious and conscientious, that's shocking. You still are. You still are. Driver. I'm a very good driver. You're a very good driver, but you're also a very conscientious passenger, just had to interject. I don't backseat drive. don't passenger You don't backseat drive, but you are very safe. I am very well aware. ⁓ And even though I live in Manhattan and have her 20 years and don't drive every day, I'm a very good driver. hold it and I own ⁓ it. But like, you know, and in fact, like I actually, because they don't drive every day, when I do drive, I actually tend to be a little bit more thoughtful and conscientious about. driving, because it's not an ingrained habit the way it used to be. But I don't have to like think about it. I know how to drive, right? But when you drive, like, I have been, there are a couple times when I've been in parts of the world where they drive on the left instead of the right. And in one case, I took like a driving trip for like four days or five days. And wow, talk about like a new ingrained habit, driving on the wrong side of the road and getting cool with it. The first day, was like really freaky. I was like sitting in the passenger seat driving and then I'm driving on the left instead of the right. It's like, I forgot where I went recently where I had to remember. Oh, when we were in India, I forgot. They don't drive on the wrong side of the road. drive on the other side of road. They drive on all sides of the road. That's real deal. They drive everywhere. They just drive anywhere. no, there's something happens and you have to relearn that. And you could argue like habits are just practices that have shifted from the mindful to the sort of mindless. Like they're just an ingrained habit. And the ego, you could say, is just like a really sticky habit of thought. Like that's one way you could start to think, like you could think about the construct, your construct of self. Like the idea you have in project of Sally, the idea I have of Seth, the idea you have of Sarah Page, like that's just a whole set of habits of thought. I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this. And part of what makes habits so useful is that in many circumstances, it's very useful to like not have to think, okay, wait, my foot is starting to depress and put pressure on the gas pedal and I don't drive automatic, I don't drive stick, so I don't have to worry about watching the RPMs to make sure that I shift gears and engage the clutch. In this case, I'm just watching and am I putting enough gas and then wait that car might be stopping so I should probably pump the brakes a little bit. Like it is useful not to be so like, you know, like not to think through every little detail of the act of driving. Right. ⁓ So it's not that our habits are wrong and it's not that they're bad and it's not that they are ⁓ inherently flawed. But it gets tricky because we when they shift from that like conscientious to the subconscious or from the mindful to the mindless. On one hand, it's like, great, it doesn't take up so much space in my head and I can just keep doing other things. But then the problem is that I just keep going and I just keep doing other things. I love, I have to say this sutra is one of the things I'm most grateful for in this study. Because I feel like what I've realized is we've been going through these books is I did not have any equanimity between practice and non-attachment. feel like growing up, I was always praised for how much I could get done, how quick I could get the job done, how many things actually multitasking, how many things I could do at one time. And without even thinking, whenever I was going, when I think back now, when I was going through my divorce, I mean, I lived in a decently big house. Do you know, I painted the entire house and the walls and the ceilings in a weekend when my kids, the first weekend, my kids went to their dad's house. Well, guess who was gonna just doing herself to death? Like, doing, I did not understand. I was avoiding the non-attachment. You know, I just was doing, doing, doing. And this is where yoga comes up in the craziest of places. This week I was thinking about this. And I've been wearing an aura ring for a few years now, just like tracking my sleep and things like this. And I realized that This aura ring, I also have a Garmin watch tracking activities and what I'm doing. So there's all this tracking. But what I realized were that these are not both tracking device. The aura ring to me is more a surrender device. This weekend, had a fever came in and a cold took me out. And my aura ring was like, slow down, slow down. take a breath, slow down, should we turn you to resting mode? Should we turn you to rest? Do you know what the Garmin watch was saying? Time to get up, get up and get moving. You're behind your steps. And then I realized, they're not the same. Like I've been testing them to see which one. But I was like, ⁓ the aura ring is more about the non-attachment, the being. And the Armand watch is more about the doing. And that makes sense. If I were to read the package of what I was buying, the watch is meant to keep me moving and the ring is meant to help me slow down. I was teaching to this because the universe loves a joke. I was teaching to this last week and I wasn't really thinking about this. And I think I've told you this, Seth, I'm not sure if I did or didn't. I have made a practice of having one day out of my week to do nothing, to do nothing. I might not get out of my jammies. I'll probably stay in bed with my cats on either side watching Murder, She Wrote or the Olympics or whatever. Murder, Gone Down Road. Yeah. We love a little Dame Angela. so I mean, for me personally, I knew that on purpose. Because the rest of my life is huge. it's, you know, I've learned how to kind of quiet it. When I went through my separation and all of that, I was super, super, super busy. And I have times when I do get super, super, super busy. And it's something I can't help. And though now I make sure, truly make sure that I have one day where there is nothing, it is clear. There's nothing there for me to do. You know what that practice is also called in some traditions? Shabbat. Yeah. Well, do you remember, mean, in Christianity, Sunday, Sunday? Yeah, it was supposed to be a Thursday. I remember Good Friday, one time they were talking about Good Friday. so much, it comes from everywhere. It comes from everywhere, but they were talking about Good Friday, well, on Sundays, you know, it used to be church and family, right? Or temple and whatever. It used to be a family day. was a day that the malls were closed. The stores were closed. And especially where I grew up in the deep South, know, everybody was a Baptist. And if you were a little bit of a rebel, a Methodist. it was shut down. The day was shut down. It was time for family. It was time for connection. And now I remember being horrified when they had sports. You know, they'd have practices on Sundays. And it was like sacrilege, but we've gotten away from relaxing, from attachment. We've gotten away from non-attachment. And I mean, I guess you're right, Seth. That's something I hadn't thought about. It is something that we don't do. Cause you said this one time, Seth, and I like this. What is it that they say in New York? What do you do or how are you doing? ⁓ I'm so busy. I'm so busy. I'm busy. are you? I'm badge of honor. I'm I'm so busy, you guys. I'm so busy. I think it's like, it's like two very New Yorky sort of points of discussion that are very common here in the city. What do you do when you meet somebody socially and they ask you like, what do you do? Oh, what do do? Which I find like really sort of aching and distasteful because what they're really asking is how do you make money? And what they're really trying to assess is how much money do you make in a lot of circumstances, right? Rarely is that question asked from a more... curious place in my experience. But the other one is like, is the other conversation is, ⁓ Sally, it's so good to see how are you? I'm so busy. ⁓ my God, I'm so, I'm great. I'm so busy. Like we equate busyness with success and goodness and idleness or slow as. ⁓ somehow like underperforming or not living up to your achievement or compa-potential or maybe that's my projection on some of those words a little bit. The two limbs, the two wings of this bird of yoga, right? And it's also one of the first times that we're really presented with like very paradoxical ideas and told to hold them together. So this is a theme that you will ⁓ hear us sit with in many ⁓ points through this study is that Master Patanjali often gives us these two opposing forces to reconcile. In this case, their practice, abhyasa, doing, and vairagya, being, non-attachment, ⁓ surrender, letting go. And so like the habit that we talked about, again, it's like the ingrained habit, the rituals, the things that we do, do, do, do, do, do, do, the doing of the doing, right? Which is so often like when we're at our busiest is usually when there's something we're like trying to avoid, right? Or there's a performance of the busy. because we have a cultural value that says busy is good, idle is bad. Sitting still is death. I got into a fight with my therapist last year about the term slow down. That's my resistance. Talk about my resistance to some of his teaching. I literally got into a fight with my therapist about him telling me to slow down and I was like, you have to stop saying that to me, it's making me crazy. I really did. We fought and got in a fight about it. Meaning I was really mad at him. I was mad was going to say. He wasn't in a fight with me. I was in a fight with me. He was just a proxy for me being in a fight with me. It's funny now. It's funny now. Right? We really struggle against the slowdown because we live in this world where it's like, what do you do? And now I have to tell you all the things I do. And then like, ⁓ how are you? I'm so busy. We over index on the doing a lot, right? Sally paints her house while she's getting divorced. Like I threw myself at my career, my professional. Not that this isn't professional, another part of phase of my career, excuse me, working in big tech. I just threw myself at that job. took every trip I could. I took every speaking engagement I could. I took every client meeting I could. I just threw myself at it. Partly because I needed the money. ⁓ But I think more because I needed the doing. I couldn't, I wasn't ready for the being. And so I just got lost in the doing and I just kept doing. And in some ways, like I didn't stop. until I left. then that, it was just, thank goodness, it was around a teacher, like a teacher training program was in my life because in that moment, I needed that structure to learn how to stop doing so much. Well, our self-worth is so wrapped around what we do. Our self-worth is like in our ego and all of that kind of stuff. I wanted to also, if, The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali by Edwin F. Bryant ⁓ says, and I love this, he talks about ⁓ viagra, mm-mm. Say it for me. I was trying. Trying really. Say it. Vai. Vai. Rag. Viragya. There it is. Viragya. Not the other. Viragya. You got it. Viragya. I'm sorry. But he said, is stilled by practice and dispassion. he's the only one that used the word dispassion. And I really loved that. And yeah, because watching us and observing us tonight as I am, there's a lot of passion. There's a lot of that. There's a lot of- It takes a lot of, like, let's be real for a second. We have a passion for what we're doing here. We don't do this to make, this is not how any of us are making money. This is not how any of us are like, like there is no other intention except to be of service to the world in the fact that we pay for what it costs to produce this out of our own pocket, arrange it ourselves, figure out how to put it up on Spotify. that all four of you listening. Can be happy. can I also reference one more thing? yeah. Which I There's dispassion about that passion, right? Exactly. Definitely. Like honestly, if the four of you listening gained some benefit, you will have made my life. Hey, you've made our lives. That's for people who have had some point of maybe positive stimulus in the world, in their life, in their day. like, I mean, that's like, you know, I think we're all very lucky too that like, Sarah Page, you are a full-time yoga teacher. I don't teach full-time as like my primary source of income and there's a point of privilege around that. I fully recognize that. ⁓ But I've also been really grateful that I don't do it because like I don't want to have to do it and Let the money be the driver of what I'm doing Because I worry that like would I then be more concerned about being liked than making an impact? For me, that's not an issue. mean, that's another discussion. But it's yes, but he also Edwin Bryant and and Yaginaath Korea referenced the Bhagavad Gita and I love this because they said go to 635 36 if you have the Bhagavad Gita handy and then the Blessed Lord said truly the wayward mind is hard to subdue. But with practice and dispassion, he referenced it again, dispassion, can be trained. 36. For one with uncontrolled mind, yoga is hard to attain. Yet I say that with practice, one who strives with disciplined mind can succeed. ⁓ I just got the chills. It's so good. It is so good. But I love how all of these things, it's not just the sutras. This is the Bhagavad Gita. It's in the Gita. It's all... Right. The other favorite part for me from the Gita is when, know, when Arjuna in the discussion of karma yoga, and Arjuna is having this like crisis of faith of like, well, I can't go to battle and be responsible for killing all these people. Like, why would I... So he says to Krishna, like, I should do nothing. And I'm paraphrasing here, right? But, like, but, Jashri Krishna then responds and says, no, no, no, Arjuna, your Dharma is that of the warrior and your Dharma is action and you must act, but never mistake the outcome of your actions as your own and always surrender it unto me. And then your karma shall be like aligned and, and like, so it's like, he literally was like, so like our path as humans in the world, for most of us is not disengagement from the world. Now, there are some who really have a monastic calling and pursue that. I mean, I'm like literally in front of a picture of the Thaksang Thakur's monastery in Bhutan where there's an incredibly devout practice of that renunciation of the world. ⁓ And in all faith traditions, by the way, there are like aesthetics and tapasias and yogis and monks and those who take that level of non-attachment to a very deep, deep, deep, deep, let's say, a whole life practice. Like, Jane nuns will wear a cloth over their mouth so that they don't accidentally breathe in any bugs or microbes and cause harm. I mean, it's really intense out there for some of these folks. And how beautiful that they do it. But for those of us who are out in the world, the vast majority of us, The teaching isn't just like, don't make any waves, don't make any imprint, don't make any impression, or don't be in action. The teaching is that you have to act. but you can't be attached to the outcome. Right? Like it's the, it's one of my favorite yoga teacher cliches. What happens when you can do a handstand? Nothing, nothing. It's cool to stand on your hands. I'm working on it. Don't have it yet. You know, maybe one day, maybe not. We'll see if I can just like be up there. That guy standing on his hands, right? Maybe, I don't know. My hands are pretty big, I don't know what to I'm trying to figure out that thing where they do it, there's a grip of the floor. You see real handstanders, like anyway. I was thinking about it tonight. Anyway, but if all you're doing is showing up to asana class every day, if all you're doing is practicing so that you get to the handstand, you will get to the handstand and it will mean nothing. It will be empty. It will be devoid because like there will be something else that doesn't fill the hole in your heart that the handstand, like that you think is handstand shaped, but that hole in your heart is God shaped. You know, there was one more line in inside Patanjali's words that really made me think about this. in the. my day-to-day life. It said, a mind firmly established in non-attachment is not without emotion. Instead, it is clear, unbiased, and loving. And I read this just before Valentine's Day. And I have had a story for 20 years now since my divorce. Like, if I just could get from Thanksgiving to the day after Valentine's Day and then start living, it would be fine. Can I just get through all that crap? But I decided to put this practice into play and I had a cold and a fever and I just woke up and I said, how lucky am I to wake up today and be able to love myself? And my grandson was there, my daughter was traveling with her work and I am so lucky to be able to love him. And it just changed my whole day. He went. off with his other grandparents and I was home alone and it was kind of cold and rainy. But then my son came and we went for a little walk and had a tea. And I just talked to my daughters, you know, and a friend. And I went to bed and I thought, my heart feels so full of love. And I was like, wow, so this is the practice, right? ⁓ Non-detachment and doing the work. And being in the practice, right? Of being aware, like I have this aversion to this day. Is it true? Is it true? It's true and it's real. Like, right, your experience of it is real. Like I have super traumatic association to Valentine's Day. I left my ex-husband 13 years ago, the day after Valentine's Day. And we had an awful conversation that one of my, I'll never forget for my whole life on Valentine's Day. It's been really hard to unprogram that. like, and similarly, like this year on Valentine's Day, was like, okay, I went into class. It so sweet with my teacher who I know, like who I love so much and I know loves me. ⁓ I like went and ran some errands. ⁓ And then I went like my favorite, One of my favorite, I love electronic music, and one of my favorite DJ, singer, songwriter was playing, and I forgot that I had, I forgot that I had the tickets until like early this week, or last week, and I had reached out to a couple friends to see if they could come along, and then nobody was around, and I was like, okay, and I just went by myself. I went to the show, and I had a great time. It was a gorgeous venue, ⁓ and it was honestly like, even though it's rave-y music, it was a concert. So like. Even though it went late, as in he started at 10, but it wasn't like I had saw sunrise. Which I'm not mad about every once in a while, but it's nice also not to. And also it's like, and then on the day that's like the really traumatic day, which for me is the 15th, I had like, ⁓ this is a sweet piece of gossip. I made a new best friend. I mean, you guys are two of my best friends and I made another new best friend this year. And he knows who he is. I don't even know if he listens. ⁓ But like, Both of you guys know who I'm talking about. And we went back and actually looked. And our actual best-aversary is the 12th. But we got dinner at a really sweet restaurant. We took ourselves to a nice dinner. And he has a boyfriend who kind of was invited. I like his boyfriend very much. And I really don't mean to gloss over that. really great and much to his boyfriend's credit. I've never felt weird side eye about like who are you all of a sudden like obsessed with and all up in my boyfriend's gig. Like zero energy of that whatsoever, which I really, I give a lot of props. It's, you know, cause like we became very obsessed with each other very quickly as friends. And like, like fully. And so we had our best-adversary dinner and I actually said to him, like, mean, part of the whole crazy story is that he knows my ex-husband. And I said to him, you know, it's 13 years, and we had this whole conversation about how wild it is that he and I are friends now. It was like the sliding doors of it just like, like, who knew? And like, I mean, we both joked, like, of course they were friends, and of course we would be friends because of that connection, like, obviously. And how he was sort of like, we were both, wondered what he would say if he knew we were like, don't like, full on besties. But I did like, I had the chance to say to him like, God, where were you for 46 years? I guess I just like, wasn't ready to like, receive you like, in my world, in my life. like, by far, maybe the single, like one of the single best things that's happened in my life in the best year in the past long, long, long, long, long time is a new best friend. And like, It was like, there was an ingrained habit of telling myself how traumatic this weekend is. And then there's like the actual experience that I had this weekend, which was so nice and like full of amazing stuff. And I had to work. Like I had to do stuff for my other job. And you know what? Like I just did it. I gotta tell you, this is interesting because I'm listening to it. And when I was, think I was alone, I guess it's three years ago, and... That's for the first time in 31 years, within, I think, three weeks. It was a very sudden breakup. And there was deep trauma associated with it. And now as time has gone on, honestly, I love going to lunch with my dear friends. I love that. I love going by myself. I take myself out for my sushi. I sit down. I get caught up. the sushi restaurant I go to knows me, they're just like, yeah, your table's ready. Like I go and I sit down. I love having that time alone. And I hear more and more women especially say, ⁓ I could never do that. And I'm like, detach from that. It is. It's like, listen, you're talking, I I travel by myself. And I'm fine with that. I like I'm looking at stuff now going, I really, I If I do ever get involved with somebody, yay, mazel me, but I don't know where they're gonna live, because it's not gonna be here. I have my home set up the way I like it. I mean, granted, the context of this is really whacked, but like, you know what Woody Allen always said, is like, best arrangement is two apartments on opposite side of the park. Yes, sounds like a really... That he and his wife used to live on the upper east and upper west sides. It's smart. I, but I mean like I out, I want to, I don't have to ask anybody anything. And my mother who, God bless her is still like, are you okay? And I'm like, mama, I am real good. And I think that we do have that story, male and female, that it has to be this way that you have to be in this, you know, to be able to detach from that and to just sort of really get. just really quiet around the fact that I don't. Right? Well, and there's that. Like, I keep going back to that ingrained habit of mistaking your thoughts for yourself. and like the ingrained habit of ego. And ⁓ maybe as we start to think, because we could do this all day, all night, like also because we're obsessed with each other and we were sitting and talking for an hour before we even started recording. ⁓ Best night of the week, it's great. It's so good, so good. I know, I was texting somebody and was like, yeah, Tuesdays are my long days, but they're like my amazing days. So, mean, like, yeah. Work Therapy Teach podcast, crushing, like crushing life. Like the best hire. When I go to bed on Tuesdays, it's just such a good hire. I just think about like where, It's just never ceaselessly fascinating, endlessly fascinating to get present to what I practice, which are my habits, and start to unclench my fist around what they're driving toward, right? Unclench the attachment. to like ⁓ the outcome. Cause that like will or won't. Right, or won't. All right, ⁓ so every week we offer ⁓ inquiry and then we offer a teaching trip. So let's start with ⁓ some inquiry for yourself based on our conversation this week. ⁓ Sarah Page, you wanna start? What kind of inquiry? My goodness. What's an inquiry question for you after this conversation? Like what are you left with? What are you, what will you chew on this week? What is ingrained? Yeah. Like it really clear around what is ingrained. And also to get more aware, you were talking about the driving. I'll go to the grocery store and not know how I got there. I'm like, did I really not pass this? in New Jersey, beware. You know, where's the 7-Eleven? Why am I in the parking lot? Like I'm completely mindless, you know, about that. And I think that maybe that is something that I could, I do a lot. I worry about those murder podcasts for you, but that's a different conversation. I do love a little Dateline, but I just, you know, it's like, I've been getting better. I have been getting better. I don't listen to the murder podcast going to go good. Oh my God. That is the most Jewish mothering habit I've ever said to you. I just, worry about you. Let it go. No, I just, ⁓ I've never been safer. Trust me. I'm scared to death all the time. But anyway, so, ⁓ but I do, it's like, how can we get aware? How can we get aware of everything without connecting so, so deeply to it? Like I can, I can be aware of something, you know, and, and I think that that goes towards our situation everywhere. I think what you're also searching for is Bethany's quote, right? Which is like, I will attribute this to my teacher, Bethany Lyons, who said once, drop the significance of the pose. I say it all the time in class now. It's a good one. of the pose. And drop the significance of that person cutting you off. I mean, all of it. It's sort of like... the significance. Drop the significance of all the things. Just do Just passion it. Do it fully. Do it passionately, but drop the significance of it. Like whether or not you do your perfect triangle today doesn't make you a good or bad yogi. It just means like we're doing like. That's where you are today. But no, I mean, like the practice is putting yourself in the shape. The detachment is dropping significance. And here's the thing for me, though. I mean, two words came really, really clear to me. Engrained habit and then also dispassionate. Yeah, dispassionate. Sally, what's an inquiry from you? I got a couple, same idea though, basically. What are your daily practices? What are you attached to? And do you identify more with doing or being? And then maybe could you imagine finding more equanimity in your life, creating space for both doing and being? I love that. Yeah, I would just say like, What are your habits and what are they for is a really constant ongoing inquiry. Like, what are they for? Who are they for? Like, who do you go to class for? Who are you practicing for when you get on that mat? Right, like if I'm ruthlessly honest, ⁓ and Bethany knows this so I can say it, ⁓ as my teacher and as somebody who I trained with extensively, ⁓ there was a long time when I got on that mat that was just as much if not more for Bethany than it was for me. It was always for me. ⁓ But like, who was I practicing for? Like, I wanted to please my teacher. I really did. Now that has, and I don't mean to sound sycophantic about like, was pleasing my teacher. And I don't mean it to like dismiss my own effort and intention and action and hard work, right? But if I'm also just like really ruthlessly honest, like I was, there's many days I showed up on that Mac, I wanted her to think I was good. And you could have told me, she could have told me any number of ways that that's not what it, like I don't feel that and like don't do that. Or like, Seth, I don't question your goodness. I know how good you are as a human being. Like any, it didn't matter. I wasn't there yet. Like I had to let that go. And it sort of got to a moment of like a real like resolution of like tension during a TT program. that I finally had to like break through that and turn it back to get back on the mat for me. So I just, you know, for all of you out there who have a really deep practice, it's really beautiful and we're gonna talk about that next week and explore like, what does it mean to have a deep practice? And just stay really curious about who it's for and what it's for. Because that also gets us into the weirder parts of Guru practice, like the trickier parts of Guru practice. It's beautiful to have a teacher. It's tricky to do the things to please your teacher. Let's not go down a whole other path of it, but just stay curious. Be curious. It's my invitation. And Sarah Page, what's a teaching tip? We all teach Asana every week. ⁓ every one of you, you're listening to this podcast, you're a teacher. Welcome to the welcome to the squad. like you have something to teach because you're listening to this. So like some, have something to teach somebody. So what's my teaching tip? This might be going rogue. This might, might be going rogue. Don't plan. Don't plan. make any plan. Don't write it down. Don't go in with any plan. I don't, I'm always look at your class, see what they need. and release whatever it is that you came in with if it doesn't suit, like if you see your class and you're thinking, ⁓ we're gonna work hurts, and you see this happening, okay, switch it up. And we should just say too, like different lineages have different points of views around this. Like a lot of lineages really encourage teachers to plan very intentionally because you're gonna teach a peak pose. And so you wanna teach dynamics and components of body opening and activation that allows students to achieve that pose or get closer to it with more. let's say integration or with better, more intentional alignment. like, but I think there's something really interesting about your provocation. yeah, yeah. I should say and, not but. Like and, it's really interesting to just say, what if you just try on a practice that's really, I don't wanna say improvisational, but that just really arises from deep listening to what the room, what you see, what you feel, and like teach to who's there. Yeah, teach to what is there, teach to what that is needed, teach to. and release anything that you are attached to if you come in and you think, okay, we're going to do hips and all of sudden you realize everybody needs shoulders and do shoulders. Don't attach. Listen, Yippee, I can go really rogue on this one too, because a little bit, there's a tiny story before it, but after my son and I came home from walking the dogs and having a tea on Valentine's Day, he's 35 now and I don't know how long he's been married, five-ish years, maybe a little longer, he two little grand, two kids, two of my grandkids from him and... I was just watching him and I suddenly had this moment of remembering the mother daughter dance. I mean, the mother son dance that we did at his wedding to Leanne Wormack. It's funny because I had to put it on, I hope you dance. And I just vividly remembered as he was driving away from my house thinking, God, I remember I practiced, you know, being his mother all the way those 30 years. And then somehow during that dance, I hoped he would continue to dance on, but I knew that I needed to let go. The relationship was gonna change. So anyway, I know that's a long story, but I just am thinking as a teaching tip, maybe invite people into the dance of doing and being and each posture and each moment, like kind of what you were saying earlier, do the posture and then be in the posture. Just what can you get back from the posture? So can you use that? I'm going use that. often say, something I often say is, you're in the shape of the pose now embody the pose. I really think that I love be in the pose. really be in the pose. I do think that Mary always had a, the pose is going to bear in that taste from training is, The pose has something to give you too. But if we keep in the doing, and now this Right, if you can't receive the pose, sometimes it's sad. there's like doing the pose. Right, which is all the work of putting your body in the shape and the integration of it. But then, like, can you breathe in it? I think, I don't even know who said this one. I've heard it a couple different, but it's like, do you have ohm in the pose? Right? If you're just muscling yourself into it, like, I don't know if you have that pose. Where's the sukkha? Where's the sukkha? Where's the sukkha? It's all Sira. If we can get like really practice letting go of the attachment then in the being of the pose, who knows what it's gonna bring you? Yeah, I mean, it is a little bit of like, you know, in the 10 tenets of teaching Baptiste Yoga, it's drop what you know and listen, right? And it's like, you need to know and then you need to drop what you know. Like I'll tell one story on this and then we should, then we'll wrap it up. Like in one of my first teacher trainings, maybe the first one, I have a lot of history. Like I have a lot of background in speaking and I did it for years and years and years in my career of big groups, small groups, giving a lot of presentations. I'm very comfortable in front of a room, in front of group of people on stage. Like I know how to do it, but I had to unlearn a lot. when I stepped into the studio because what is effective on stage is actually very ineffective in the studio because it's very performative. And I know how to give shtick. I am like giving a cheesy smile for those of you listening to my voice and like, you know, who's got two thumbs and knows how to give a good spiel? This guy. Okay. And. So I remember getting up in front of a room and I used humor as I just did. Humor is a deflection technique sometimes. Don't see anything I don't want you to see, I'll crack a joke. Because I'm funny and I'm charming. And I know how to use those things to actually distract from other vulnerability and authenticity. So I cracked a joke and Bethany literally looked at me. We were in the old Tribeca studio, because I'll never forget this, and she goes, Seth. stop getting these people to like you, they already like you. Just teach. And stop performing, stop trying to get these people to like you. And I remember I was against the wall and I felt like I might as well have been standing there naked. Is what it felt like. I was like. And I'll never forget it because I constantly have to tell myself like, Seth, stop, like drop that, drop that, drop that. don't like, do you need that? Paige did that for me. Do you that? Like, do you need that? Do you need that? Who is that for Seth? It's not about the right and the wrong. It's just about the really, really heartfelt curiosity. And like last week, I even think I said like, what if it's all perfect? Like what if it's just like, what if, what if you at your most authentic self, messy, amazing, wholehearted, and petty, and all of it. Like, what if it's all just how it's supposed to be? And like, this week, like, how do we get into that sense of like, that the practice is to want more and to want better and to do better and learn more. And that's so beautiful and it's so well-intended. And like, thank God you're listening to us and thank God we found our way to this work. And like, It's not because there's some mythical promise of Valhalla on the other side of it. It's not because we're promised to ascend to Brahmaloka as being cleansed of our karma. It's our dharma to just be in this study and be curious, and that's the doing, is this, right? And then the being is this. The being is just being with each other. The being is like, we've always said this podcast isn't perfect. We're not designing it to be perfect. We don't want it to be perfect. It's about an hour. This week went a little long. Last week, maybe, I we went a little short. You know, like, okay. That has been a big point of growth for me to be okay with that sort of little wabi-sabi around it. ⁓ So, I don't know, I guess this is long way around to saying to any of you listening, is like, you know, the practice is the doing and trust your doing, and then the practice is also the being and like, what can you be? What can you, if you just look, with really curious eyes and a curious, open heart. I was thinking, what if the non-attachment has something, quote unquote, better from you that you can even pull up? You know, there's a question actually, even from like the coach, from a coaching training I did, that they encouraged coaches to ask, which is, what's here now? Like when you're not sure where to go in a coaching session, you just can look in with true, honest curiosity, like, okay, so like, what's here now? Like, what's... What's right in the space? What's between us? What's right here in the space right now? Right, confusion. Okay, you're confused. Great, tell me more about being confused. I don't know what to talk about. How does it feel to not know what to talk about? What does that bring up for you? Does that often happen or is this new? Right, like there's so much you gotta unpack from that line of inquiry for yourself with somebody else ⁓ and in the work of like being in the practice of the inquiry and the letting go of the attachment as to what the having a right answer. What if there's no right answer? Wow, know one answer, it's not a right answer, but actually this is kind of a right answer, that like, being in this work with you two, putting our effort to sharing it with the world and then letting it go, because we're not paying too close attention to the analytics either. I know we're listening out there, I know there's some of you who are and we're so grateful, thank you. But again, if like, Five of you find your way to this and that's our little contribution to the world and that's actually kind of great. If 500 of you, 5,000 of you are listening too, I'm thrilled. Maybe one day. But in the meantime, the right answer is the study and the work and cultivating people and relationships with whom you can really take that on in such a heartfelt way and that's such a big part of like wherever the Sutra Squad goes and whatever we do with this and however it evolves, because of course it will, because all things change and evolve over time, but I know that it continues to just be an absolute joy and privilege of my life to be in this practice of study with the two of you, so I just wanna say thank you. And with that, thank you for listening. If you found some value or benefit, please consider liking, subscribing, and rating, or giving us a comment or review on the podcast. delivery methodology of your choice. And until next time, for the Sutra Squad, I am Seth and we are so grateful and thank you so much. We'll see you soon. Bye bye.