Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the fanciable Dylan Rees & Luke Molloy about their choice of Spyfall Part 1

Transcript

Talks to the fanciable Dylan Rees & Luke Molloy about their choice of Spyfall Part 1 · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker OK.
• 0:41
  Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, a Doctor Who
• 0:44
  commentary podcast. And it's me, Dylan Reese here
• 0:47
  again. And obviously I'm with Joe.
• 0:49
  Say hello, Joe. Hello.
• 0:51
  I'm delighted to be here to talk about this fabulous episode.
• 0:54
  Wonderful. And we've got someone else here
• 0:56
  as well. We've got Luke Balloy here too.
• 0:58
  Hello. Yes, I can't wait to talk about
• 1:00
  this episode too. What we know Everybody knows
• 1:09
  what you think of this episode already.
• 1:12
  Yeah, well, it's good that we've got two people here that really
• 1:15
  like it, isn't it? Indeed.
• 1:19
  Yeah, yeah. Cuz I just.
• 1:21
  I just think it's shite. Well, that's the podcast done.
• 1:28
  I I declared it off our thread on Facebook.
• 1:32
  I think this is potentially my favorite opening episode.
• 1:37
  Of, yeah. Which is, Which is nuts.
• 1:39
  You know, I'm going to hold back on the swear words beginning
• 1:43
  because no one wants to listen to that.
• 1:45
  But that that's nuts. I don't know whether I 100%
• 1:48
  agree, but definitely I mean all the two-part openers my
• 1:52
  favorite, so I don't really wish.
• 1:55
  That's nuts. Like, I don't like any of
• 2:00
  Russell T Davis's episode ones of any of the series.
• 2:04
  That's nuts as well. Yeah, he's definitely got the
• 2:07
  weaker ones though. I think the I think like the
• 2:09
  only actual strong one is Smith and Jones.
• 2:12
  I think Partners In Crime is a masterpiece.
• 2:15
  It's not. It's got its moments.
• 2:17
  But he's running on empty by that point a little bit, and
• 2:20
  Murray Gold by that point is just too over the top.
• 2:22
  If you listen to, and Jack pointed this out to me, if you
• 2:25
  listen to the score to Partners in Crime, it might as well be at
• 2:29
  the score to like a screwball comedy or something like.
• 2:32
  That that means it makes me want to kill up and die.
• 2:39
  It's not for me. I think all Moffett's Open is a
• 2:42
  brilliant. Actually it's not a good.
• 2:45
  It's not a good. I know you don't like deep
• 2:46
  breath doing, but actually I think, I think out of all of
• 2:49
  them that's probably the weakest one.
• 2:51
  But 11th hour is 11th hour is top three.
• 2:55
  Compared deep breath to this. It's badly structured, it's
• 3:00
  badly paced, it's going to boring first half.
• 3:04
  There we go. Anywhere.
• 3:05
  Okay, so we need to get this out of the way 1st.
• 3:07
  And for my for my, like, let's say hatred of this episode, it's
• 3:13
  that I don't. I don't buy into Jodie.
• 3:17
  Risk is the doctor and I don't buy into Chip Mills vision of
• 3:20
  the show. I say anything that else that
• 3:24
  might work structure or the fact it looks nice and that it's just
• 3:29
  surface level stuff. Fundamentally, I do not like the
• 3:33
  show, Henry. I do want anyone actually like
• 3:40
  Henry. Because that's exactly how I
• 3:42
  feel about Matt Smith and Stephen Moffett.
• 3:44
  So I I understand where you're coming from.
• 3:46
  If you're not behind the Doctor, and you're not behind the vision
• 3:48
  for the show, you're automatically in a bad position
• 3:52
  before you even press play. Yeah, it doesn't particularly
• 3:55
  matter what the story is or you know, how good it looks or
• 3:57
  anything. You don't buy into the show,
• 4:00
  You're just waiting for the show to change.
• 4:02
  And I think as well, like if we're diving in series 12, I've
• 4:06
  got really proud memories of series 12, just that hating it
• 4:09
  at the time. It really turning me off talk to
• 4:13
  her at the time and so like whenever you go back to it it it
• 4:17
  it it sort of comes with that anyway why did I hate it at the
• 4:21
  time cause it's shit and so so I know this is this is the bad bit
• 4:27
  about this podcast really it's people are going to.
• 4:31
  Go on, I think people are obviously going to ask.
• 4:33
  Explain it, then explain why you don't like it.
• 4:36
  And actually I find it really hard to I think.
• 4:39
  I think I'm going to sound like a hypocrite quite a lot, because
• 4:43
  a lot of the stuff I'll say I don't like you might apply to
• 4:46
  other areas. And do you like.
• 4:47
  And we've mentioned the SNAP joke before that I think is
• 4:50
  absolutely awful in this, but if Matt Smith said it, I'd probably
• 4:53
  find it great. If you just pretend to be a
• 4:55
  sexist and not like a female doctor, everyone will understand
• 4:57
  why you don't like the era. I would like to say that Dylan
• 5:00
  Reese, you are in fact responsible for this because you
• 5:03
  said me, me, and you are too positive about this era.
• 5:06
  Let's drag Luke Malloy in, because he'll be.
• 5:09
  I do also, I really wish I could sit here and truthfully say,
• 5:12
  like, oh, OK, I'm excited to watch it with two people that
• 5:16
  love it and see and you can. I'll see it through your eyes
• 5:19
  and maybe I might like it. I just won't.
• 5:21
  I just can't see that. Nothing.
• 5:26
  Do you know, Do you know why I think it's important to do this?
• 5:28
  Because this is not the the most popular era of the show.
• 5:32
  It's also not as unpopular as a lot of people would have.
• 5:35
  You have, you think. And I do want to hear somebody
• 5:39
  criticize it and somebody that I like rather than that knows
• 5:43
  really. There are some really nasty
• 5:45
  podcasts out there of some horrible people who I won't
• 5:49
  mention, but they are bigots and they are sexist and homophobic
• 5:54
  and transphobic and racist. And they exist within the Doctor
• 5:57
  Who community and they fire all their bile at this era of Doctor
• 6:01
  Who because it's too woke or whatever.
• 6:04
  And the I'm talking popular podcasters who will remain
• 6:07
  nameless. And so I just wanted to.
• 6:11
  I just want to hear somebody who doesn't like it, who I know
• 6:14
  isn't any of those things. As far as I know.
• 6:17
  I know the most as well, but I don't think it is just bigots.
• 6:20
  There's podcasts that I know who that and they're in no way
• 6:24
  bigots, but there is a tone of I'm a bit better than this TV.
• 6:30
  Which is very odd, to come on and talk about an era of a show
• 6:34
  and just be like, well, I'm, I'm enduring this.
• 6:36
  I'm tolerating this because I know something.
• 6:39
  Fucking talk about it then. You know, because you just sound
• 6:41
  like a twat. So we've we've agreed to do this
• 6:45
  because, you know, it would be fun to get someone who doesn't
• 6:48
  like it and like, yeah, you use that, love it if you know.
• 6:54
  I was in my own time or doing my own podcast.
• 6:56
  I wouldn't watch this and when we did Lost on Gallifrey, apart
• 6:59
  from when they actually earned. We never ever used to talk about
• 7:02
  the journey with career just because neither was particularly
• 7:04
  liked it. It would be, it would be a yeah
• 7:08
  going back to this point. It would be a hell of a lot of a
• 7:11
  smoother road and journey if I just said I liked it because I
• 7:15
  know it comes with of course, you run to the cuff straight
• 7:18
  away of there's only one example of a female doctor and I'm
• 7:23
  saying. It's the only one I don't like,
• 7:26
  so that obviously comes with a bit of, you know.
• 7:29
  What about the roof, Doctor? There's two.
• 7:33
  Come on. I mean 11 minutes, 11 minutes.
• 7:38
  No one's done any of their finest work in 11 minutes, we
• 7:41
  all know that. The Roof Doctor would count if
• 7:44
  it is like just sort of justified.
• 7:45
  I know it's stupid and artificial, but like the War
• 7:48
  Doctor counts because he's only he's justified with the whole.
• 7:51
  Like there the Doctor, he's explained where he is in the.
• 7:54
  In the whole like you know from 1st to 11th where he is.
• 7:59
  But I mean, oh, you're that fan. I like the mystery.
• 8:02
  You need to know where all your doctors fit.
• 8:04
  It's. No wonder you're a Stephen
• 8:05
  Moffett fan. It's not necessarily nowhere
• 8:08
  they fit, it's just none of it particularly makes any sense.
• 8:12
  So she had a police box, TARDIS and then.
• 8:15
  You know, got a mind, right? And then stole another TARDIS
• 8:18
  and then got a police box again. No, I think she stole, but stole
• 8:20
  the same TARDIS and it just prefers being in the the form of
• 8:23
  a police box because that's. What I think this needs to
• 8:25
  explain, and I think it does, though if you're going to go
• 8:29
  there, I think it does. Then go and read a book by Gary
• 8:32
  Russell then. All right, he'll do it for you.
• 8:35
  But I think, can I can I explain why I think this is so good?
• 8:41
  Go for it. Because I think it's such.
• 8:45
  It's a it's a very stylish piece of television.
• 8:48
  And my reaction to this when I first the cliffhanger at the
• 8:52
  end, I jumped out of my seat and screamed with delight at that
• 8:56
  master reveal. I absolutely loved it, so I
• 8:59
  realized it's subjective. But when I watched this, it was
• 9:05
  it was just a delight for me. And if you if you watched it
• 9:08
  like that, if that was your reaction the first time around.
• 9:11
  Then you do sort of feel that buzz every single time you watch
• 9:13
  it. Because I have the same thing
• 9:15
  with also winning. Asylum of the Daleks have that
• 9:19
  set, that they reveal that she is a Dalek and how, like wrong
• 9:23
  footed It was through the whole that I still get that buzz now,
• 9:26
  so I can understand that there was there was that like times 10
• 9:30
  over this season, though for me it just kept every few episodes.
• 9:33
  It just kept, you know, amping things up with reveals and
• 9:37
  surprises, and I just thought it was the most genuinely one of
• 9:40
  the most exciting Doctor Who seasons I've ever seen.
• 9:44
  Like. For me, it was all just reveals
• 9:47
  and twists with no actual substance.
• 9:49
  It was just a moment you could put on TikTok to sort of get
• 9:53
  people, which is exactly the format of television right now.
• 9:57
  And I don't see that. I don't see the format of the
• 9:59
  show changing that much when Russell T Davis is in charge.
• 10:02
  It's going to be TikTok moments and reaction videos sort of
• 10:05
  things. Yeah, but I do think there'll be
• 10:07
  a better story to cushion it around.
• 10:11
  Then we'll actually have you watched New Earth?
• 10:17
  The Doctor was a load of liquid on him and that always cured
• 10:22
  everything. Oh, dreadful.
• 10:23
  You remember you said about a series of reveals?
• 10:26
  That's what Series 6 felt like to me, A series of reveals and
• 10:30
  dead ends that didn't really go anywhere.
• 10:32
  But at least in this, everything that is started in this episode
• 10:36
  is paid off in the top. What do you mean paid off?
• 10:40
  What? So he says.
• 10:41
  Oh. Gallifrey was destroyed.
• 10:42
  And we go to Gallifrey, he says. The Timeless Child and we
• 10:46
  explore the Timeless Child. And how much fun is that?
• 10:50
  Well, what? Do you think of it in terms of a
• 10:52
  structured season? Every single seed he plants
• 10:56
  here, he deals with in that final episode.
• 11:00
  I think the aulty that they, I mean when you say seed planted,
• 11:03
  he says. Like sometimes they say some
• 11:07
  stuff in the opener and they go there and in the finale that is
• 11:10
  generally what happens. And.
• 11:13
  As a piece of television list from scene to scene, the set
• 11:16
  pieces are incredible. The money is on the screen.
• 11:18
  It's got energy and pace. It's funny.
• 11:22
  It responsibly reintroduces all of the regulars again at the
• 11:26
  start of the season. It kickstarts the arcs that run
• 11:29
  throughout the season. It's got some wonderful guest
• 11:32
  stars in Stephen Fry and Lenny Henry and we love that sort of
• 11:35
  thing. You know, It's got fun ideas in
• 11:38
  it. It's a really, really great.
• 11:41
  James Bond passage and I don't really like James Bond movies.
• 11:45
  I love James Bond's. Well, of course you do.
• 11:50
  I've just watched you're. The target audience, Luke
• 11:52
  Valloy, that's. Why?
• 11:54
  I know. I get that.
• 11:55
  I do get that. And I think as much as like I
• 11:58
  should be grown up, you know, we always talk about like the
• 12:01
  cringe feeling of Doctor Who. When you're watching it around
• 12:04
  other people, you get that cringe in your stomach.
• 12:05
  It sort of ruins it for you. Like the whole era is cringe for
• 12:09
  me, and even though I should be old for that.
• 12:11
  Cringe Fabulous choices in in vineyards.
• 12:15
  I I should? Be over that cringe feeling
• 12:18
  because I'm like in my 20s, but I I know with this era, and even
• 12:24
  when I watch it on my own, I still find it cringy.
• 12:26
  So it's not even like it's a it's a influential cringe, and
• 12:31
  it and it does, all stem from. To be honest, Jody with CUZ
• 12:34
  performing to the doctor, I just really find it quite irritating
• 12:39
  and I don't know why anyone would ever hang out with her.
• 12:41
  That would be. That's an interesting thing to
• 12:43
  explore and I'm really pleased we're gonna talk about Dylan.
• 12:48
  What about you then? Cuz we're kind of setting our
• 12:50
  stools. Yes, I love it.
• 12:54
  I just want to clarify one thing I said earlier.
• 12:56
  I was talking about a very specific podcast.
• 12:58
  Of course, not everybody here is negative on this era.
• 13:01
  It's a bigot or homophobic, just to be really clear.
• 13:05
  And I'll tell you what, that podcast is off mic because I
• 13:08
  don't even want to give them air time.
• 13:11
  So I'm intrigued. I love this.
• 13:16
  I think this is it's one of my favorite season openers is one
• 13:20
  of my favorite seasons of Doctor Who.
• 13:22
  I think the childless time arc works.
• 13:26
  I I I'm a big fan of the finale of it.
• 13:28
  I like I can rewatch every episode of this season again and
• 13:33
  again and again. To me, this is this season in
• 13:36
  particular is like Russell T Davis is Doctor Who, but done
• 13:39
  better. You know, I actually genuinely
• 13:44
  think as well that Chippers has taken a good hard look at Series
• 13:48
  11. And but like the pace of it, you
• 13:53
  know, like because I feel like he's up the ante in sort of
• 13:57
  every respect. He's putting more money on the
• 13:59
  screen. He's throwing in more jokes,
• 14:01
  whether you think they're funny or not.
• 14:02
  Luke, they're there, you know, I think.
• 14:06
  I think he's trying to make. Saturday night television.
• 14:10
  Again, I know it's on a Sunday, but I feel like Series 11, we've
• 14:15
  discussed some. What we did there is a bit more
• 14:17
  sedate and a bit more thoughtful.
• 14:19
  This is like the Wham Bam season opener you'd expect on a
• 14:23
  Saturday night. I personally read it as he ran
• 14:26
  out of ideas after series 11 and then just copied our TD.
• 14:30
  There's there's there is a little bit of a greatest hits of
• 14:33
  the new series but it's the greatest hits done with what I
• 14:36
  think is better visuals, better know how of making television
• 14:41
  than they had 15 years ago. And so like when I say it's RTD
• 14:45
  but done better, that's not because the RTDA was shit, it's
• 14:49
  because because quite clearly it was quite successful, so much so
• 14:53
  they invited him back. But it's television has
• 14:56
  progressed and it's going right. One of the most exciting bits of
• 15:00
  Doctor Who that really get people exciting we we can do
• 15:03
  them better now because, you know, we've got the means to do
• 15:07
  so. Even RTD was sat there when
• 15:09
  these errors were going out. Not specifically talking about
• 15:11
  this, but going, you know, imagine what we do now if we had
• 15:14
  the money and well, they think it does.
• 15:17
  Do it better. And I think we doctor, we
• 15:20
  Doctor, he fans. We don't care if it looks good.
• 15:25
  I think we do nowadays. Yeah, I think there's a certain
• 15:29
  level of standard it has to hit nowadays, otherwise it will be
• 15:31
  mocked and then you get the cringe feeling again.
• 15:34
  Look, don't come at me, all right, But I think same for
• 15:36
  seeing there's more money on the screen here than an impossible
• 15:39
  astronaut. Almost definitely, yeah.
• 15:42
  No, they almost definitely. I wish that Chip NOR had stuck.
• 15:48
  To what was probably his direction of that series 11, I'd
• 15:52
  like to see another series go in that direction rather than
• 15:56
  reverting back to the greatest hits of the new series.
• 16:01
  Or just skip to Flux, which also feels quite inventive and you
• 16:04
  know a different sort of direction.
• 16:06
  I hate this middle ground. A series tone was just the
• 16:10
  worst. You like Rings of Akaton?
• 16:13
  That was. Brilliant, yeah.
• 16:15
  But with the rings of actor. Talk about the cringe factor,
• 16:18
  yeah. Yeah, but I absolutely buy into
• 16:21
  Matt Smith and Clara and that world and everything.
• 16:24
  I think that. Is your biggest stumbling block,
• 16:27
  isn't it? It's Jody.
• 16:29
  Yeah, I think the more I thought about it over time is that when
• 16:33
  people say like, oh, you know, Jody with Chris Chibnall or
• 16:38
  Chris Chibnall was, you know, didn't give her the best
• 16:40
  material. I've I've sort of gone the other
• 16:42
  way on it and thought I just, I really just don't like her as a
• 16:45
  doctor whatsoever. And I've like, I've liked doing
• 16:48
  a few other things. I was captivated by her in this
• 16:51
  when I watched this over the last couple of days, especially
• 16:55
  the second episode where she gets the lungs today but.
• 16:57
  Let's say even on that, like that first reveal video when
• 17:00
  like, she takes her hood off and it was her I was never struck
• 17:04
  with, like, oh, there's the Doctor, you know, and I was.
• 17:09
  I think I was always waiting for that moment and I'm one of them
• 17:11
  annoying pricks. That is always like when's the
• 17:13
  Doctor moment going to come? You need that I am the doctor
• 17:17
  from. No, not necessarily.
• 17:19
  But it it just didn't. Really happen for me.
• 17:22
  I just think it's sort of one note, even though she tries
• 17:26
  doing different things and this is just just an insufferability
• 17:30
  to the character that I just find a really annoying.
• 17:35
  For me, it was when she fell through that train, and the
• 17:37
  woman who fell to earth, I was just sold straight away.
• 17:41
  But that if you do it that quick, though, you're going to
• 17:44
  love the I saw the Matt Smith straight away.
• 17:48
  Yeah, but Matt Smith is the Doctor straight away.
• 17:50
  And then he systematically becomes less likable and less
• 17:53
  like the Doctor as he goes along.
• 17:55
  By the time you what did you what did you just say?
• 17:57
  Insufferable by the time you get to time and he's naked, waving
• 18:01
  his hands around and bald. Bullshit and and speaking like
• 18:05
  he always speaks like he's got like air space in his mouth.
• 18:08
  By the end he's like you know, like Tom Hardy has Bane.
• 18:12
  That's what he sounds like by. The end of China.
• 18:14
  I'm an old man, but I'm only 29. Fuck off, Matt Smith.
• 18:18
  If you've loved him at the beginning though, like you're
• 18:20
  not going to suddenly turn around in 77 at the time and be
• 18:24
  like suck him off, I think you already invested enough to just
• 18:29
  carry on. At the time, I didn't
• 18:31
  particularly notice that he changed his performance.
• 18:33
  Now it's like night and day but. Well, I'll tell you what, we
• 18:37
  love it. You hate it.
• 18:39
  Let's press play and talk about the content because otherwise
• 18:42
  I'll feel we're going to go round in circles.
• 18:46
  OK, we could go on all that. OK, well who wants to count as
• 18:49
  you then? I think Malloy should count as
• 18:54
  the final. Come on, let's get this over
• 18:56
  with. Three say 1.
• 19:01
  Go. I'm not sure, actually.
• 19:03
  I've been. I've been looking forward to
• 19:04
  this so much. Luke, I was the opposite
• 19:05
  reaction to you. I can't wait to do this with
• 19:08
  your pair of you. All right, well, let's start
• 19:11
  with the title then. Spy Fall.
• 19:13
  Isn't it just terrible? Like when that first got out.
• 19:18
  It's just a pit in my stomach. Just I just sums Chip N up.
• 19:23
  Done it. A really terrible point.
• 19:25
  Loads of spies fall. That's a terrible pun.
• 19:29
  Like that's referencing something that's already about 8
• 19:33
  years old that is just chip north.
• 19:35
  Come on pastiche of a James Bond title.
• 19:41
  And some of those clickbait titles that we get in other eras
• 19:44
  that shall remain nameless? Yeah.
• 19:47
  And also, I mean, we're talking about Doctor Who being relevant,
• 19:51
  and it's always done this thing of being behind popular culture.
• 19:54
  Look at the Doctor. Mysterio and superheroes are
• 19:57
  big. Which superhero movie does he
• 19:58
  choose to pass pastiche? Eggs.
• 20:01
  Which is which? Which was refreshing at the time
• 20:06
  because all we were getting was the same old superhero movies.
• 20:08
  Look, that's all we had for a year.
• 20:11
  And a Doctor Mysterio. And what a year it.
• 20:13
  Was that That was the worst, worst year of my life.
• 20:18
  I've heard people having a good old whinge about Chipnaw and his
• 20:21
  globe trotting. I love it as well, but it's that
• 20:25
  bloody James born Pastiche, for God's sakes.
• 20:27
  You know you've got to go around the world.
• 20:30
  I think it's more the fact that it could just be any country,
• 20:33
  didn't it? The countries could just be
• 20:34
  anything, any single time to do this.
• 20:37
  Yeah, but I mean, you know, Rusty Davis I think is is sort
• 20:41
  of a fan of that sort of thing. And so was Stephen Moffett.
• 20:44
  They all they they'd all throw up these things.
• 20:46
  And I don't think, I think it's, it's just a narrative device.
• 20:51
  And you know, no one actually believed they went to Sydney in
• 20:53
  the pilot, did they or was it or whatever.
• 20:57
  Yeah, they weren't. They weren't there.
• 20:59
  And you know Daleks in Manhattan.
• 21:01
  There were no Daleks in Manhattan.
• 21:04
  The Statue of Liberty was there. This could be a bloody movie.
• 21:09
  I mean, I watched the first couple of scenes.
• 21:11
  A bad movie. And it's that thing that you've
• 21:18
  got to remember, this is New Year's Day, right?
• 21:20
  So this is, this is the big launch on New Year's Day and you
• 21:24
  know, around New Year's Day and Christmas and stuff, there's
• 21:26
  always Bond films on. So I think it's that, you know,
• 21:29
  I'm not a big fan of the Christmas special, so to have
• 21:32
  Christmas dispensed with and this sort of stuff going on.
• 21:35
  It's it's it's a breath of fresh air.
• 21:37
  Again, I love the Christmas specials and I love that I love
• 21:40
  that feeling that Doctor Who's on on Christmas.
• 21:43
  Day and being really shit. But it's not just a beacontrary.
• 21:47
  It feels like a. Present.
• 21:49
  It feels like a present. But it's always the most I've
• 21:52
  said this before, it's always the most embarrassing.
• 21:54
  Doctor Who gets as a Christmas special, and that's what the
• 21:56
  rest of the world thinks. Doctor Who is like I'm.
• 21:59
  I'm. This the 1st. 15 The 1st 15
• 22:04
  minutes to husbands of it was August, that it haunts us all.
• 22:07
  It haunts us all. The Shooty Gap word debut being
• 22:10
  a Christmas special terrifies me, especially when I read a
• 22:14
  supposed synopsis for it online the other day.
• 22:16
  I was just. I know that is.
• 22:19
  I don't want to scare it. I don't.
• 22:22
  I don't want to spoil anything for anybody, and it's probably
• 22:24
  not true. But it was genuinely one of the
• 22:26
  worst Doctor Who stories I think I've ever read a synopsis for.
• 22:30
  But do you guys know that Ryan plays basketball?
• 22:33
  Is this what you meant about your seeds playing off in the
• 22:35
  finale, Joe? Yeah, but it does, doesn't it?
• 22:39
  Because he throws that bomb in the last.
• 22:41
  Episode if that's all you may have forgotten all about.
• 22:44
  That thank you. That is all you need, no?
• 22:47
  It's also setting up his mate, who we return to in the one
• 22:50
  episode of the series that you haven't seen.
• 22:52
  Can you hear me? That's very important later in
• 22:54
  the season. I just think as well rather than
• 22:57
  doing that, I'm going to do some comparisons to my fitness
• 22:59
  course. I am rather than doing that, oh,
• 23:02
  you know, she was a a nanny one minute and a teacher the next
• 23:06
  and a fuck knows what happened in between.
• 23:08
  We're just back on A and we're catching up with every one of
• 23:10
  these characters and the people that are important in their
• 23:12
  lives. I think that's a great thing to
• 23:14
  do at the beginning of the season.
• 23:16
  It grounds them. I agree.
• 23:18
  Thank you very much and I love her family.
• 23:23
  I like her family. I know.
• 23:24
  I yeah. I wish we'd seen a bit more of
• 23:26
  this. It interests me more than quite
• 23:28
  a lot of the others chip and stuff.
• 23:30
  One criticism I do have of the era is I think there is a missed
• 23:34
  opportunity not going to see Yazid's family more.
• 23:36
  They could have been the Wi-Fi family.
• 23:38
  They cutting back to them on Rand's core of Colossus and
• 23:41
  stuff like that to show some jeopardy to the planet Earth and
• 23:44
  stuff would have really, really helped.
• 23:45
  Sell it. It would have helped Jazz out as
• 23:47
  well to bolster a character of a notch, because at the end of
• 23:50
  this story, I don't really care about those people in that
• 23:53
  Conference Center that are having their faces sucked off or
• 23:55
  whatever's going on by their mobile phones.
• 23:57
  But Yazzy's family are already care about, so that actually has
• 24:01
  a bit of tension to those scenes.
• 24:06
  I'm not sure where at what point she stops working for the
• 24:09
  police, but come Flux, I believe she's chipped him off.
• 24:12
  Yeah, she says it, and she do. You think, Do you think she's
• 24:15
  working for unit now? And any potential spinoff for
• 24:18
  sure, Yeah, you know, as a male working for UNIT.
• 24:23
  I don't actually have that much. Like, I don't particularly have
• 24:26
  a problem with any of the three companions.
• 24:29
  It is more just the Doctor itself.
• 24:33
  It's a bit weird to bring like Graham's Cancer storyline in it.
• 24:38
  Full stop, I think, in Doctor Who?
• 24:39
  Really. I think it it sort of grants him
• 24:43
  and it's an interesting thing. I don't think they do too much
• 24:45
  with it. I would have preferred a little
• 24:47
  bit, a little bit more. But then Chibno said it was.
• 24:50
  Didn't he say it was something to do with his own diagnosis or
• 24:53
  something that that he had cancer or something like that
• 24:56
  Okay. Well, they they say they
• 24:57
  brought. He brought in the adoption
• 24:58
  storyline because he adopted. So maybe, maybe there's bits of
• 25:02
  his life. Listen.
• 25:04
  It wasn't an episode about having a hair transplant.
• 25:08
  I'm not sure that who has the capacity to do like a full time
• 25:12
  cancer storyline? No.
• 25:14
  Well, so I think that what they do in order to give his
• 25:19
  character. I was.
• 25:21
  I was there when they were filming Iraq into the UK and I
• 25:25
  met Bradley Waltz on the street and asked for a photo but he
• 25:29
  said he couldn't because it give away his costume.
• 25:32
  That. Is true.
• 25:33
  I've always looked at that costume.
• 25:37
  Was he just, was he just paying me off?
• 25:39
  He just knew you wouldn't like it.
• 25:41
  That was all. He knew I was going to go online
• 25:44
  and fucking now. Don't you tell me this ain't the
• 25:46
  doctor. Look at her.
• 25:47
  She's got all the guts in the. Past She's got the dog goes on.
• 25:50
  Wow. No, but she's talking about was
• 25:53
  there any difference between Matt Smith and her fucking face?
• 25:56
  Yeah, but it doesn't really matter what you stick them in or
• 25:58
  what you stick on them. It just matters.
• 26:00
  Do you like them? And I don't okay.
• 26:05
  To be. So yeah, I might sound terrible,
• 26:08
  but then, you know, like at the time there was so many people
• 26:12
  kicking off that there was tubes hanging out.
• 26:13
  I bought under the TARDIS. That was really weird.
• 26:16
  What the fuck is that about? Why do people care?
• 26:21
  It's quite a nice visual. It's like it's a it's a bit like
• 26:24
  a car in a garage. Why?
• 26:27
  Why would you made an accident? I'll tell you what, in terms of
• 26:30
  shorthand of of reintroducing those four characters, he does
• 26:34
  that in a couple of minutes really well.
• 26:38
  And then they're back together and now the story starts, the
• 26:41
  the proper story starts. They're off to investigate.
• 26:44
  Yeah, I think, I think it does reestablish.
• 26:47
  It tells crew well. Yeah, so go on, I've got that.
• 26:51
  I think, I think you have to do that not just because it's the
• 26:54
  beginning of the season, because it's New Year's Day and there'll
• 26:56
  be people watching that, haven't seen it before, and then they
• 27:01
  have this fabulous sequence now where the car goes backwards
• 27:04
  along the motorway. The cringe starts here, doesn't
• 27:07
  it? Why?
• 27:09
  Oh God, this is just an awful sequence.
• 27:12
  Look at them all in the car getting away and I think this is
• 27:15
  fabulous. No.
• 27:18
  David Tennant was there, turning away.
• 27:20
  You'd be coming in your little pants.
• 27:22
  Yeah, this is the best Doctor Who's seen them.
• 27:24
  Ever since I have said this outright, I do have a problem
• 27:28
  with the doctor. With the performance of the
• 27:30
  doctor. I just can't buy into the show.
• 27:34
  I don't care what happens to it. I want the sat NAV to win.
• 27:38
  The only way this thing could be any better would be if the three
• 27:41
  of them in the back of the car could have jumped out and sung
• 27:43
  that song they did in that video that was doing the rounds on
• 27:45
  YouTube. Do you remember that?
• 27:47
  Yes, I do. I remember that there was a
• 27:50
  couple. There was a whole thing.
• 27:51
  Wasn't there a Brad or sings or something like?
• 27:54
  That Oh, sorry. I do.
• 27:56
  I just could. We should we.
• 27:57
  I'd like to talk a little bit about the ratings as well for
• 27:59
  this episode. I don't know.
• 28:02
  Well, this got nearly 7 million people like it was 6.89 million
• 28:06
  and the next one gets sick of. Falling, therefore don't know
• 28:09
  who's going to die. But I just think, you know,
• 28:12
  there's this sort of perceived thing that that the the ratings
• 28:15
  are down for. This era and they are down, and
• 28:18
  there's various reasons why why they're down.
• 28:21
  Not that that's not necessarily an indication of the quality,
• 28:24
  it's it's an old show. People watch TV in a different
• 28:27
  ways. But I still think like, well I
• 28:31
  say this, I know that 6,000,000 viewers is nothing to turn your
• 28:35
  nose up at. It is considered a huge rating
• 28:37
  success these days. I heard someone talking about
• 28:41
  years and years the other day and how the last episode of that
• 28:43
  got one point over 5 million or something like that.
• 28:47
  And you'd hardly call that a failure, would you?
• 28:50
  Despite the fact it started with a high rating.
• 28:52
  What was the child position? Let me see if I can find the
• 28:56
  chart. I can tell you the Rotten
• 28:57
  Tomatoes first episode got 93%. It got four stars from the Radio
• 29:03
  Times, the Guardian, the Independent, Telegraph gave it 3
• 29:06
  fucking Tories. I can't find the chart position
• 29:11
  here. Because TV ratings are so sort
• 29:13
  of. Outdated and because you you can
• 29:17
  take the same figure and say it's a massive success or a
• 29:19
  massive failure and just spin it however you want.
• 29:23
  There's just absolutely no point even diving into them.
• 29:26
  I saw Fraser Gregory having a little.
• 29:28
  Argument twice the other day. Jesus.
• 29:31
  I had to stop reading it. Why was it?
• 29:33
  Why did it keep? I always say to him, pull out
• 29:36
  my. You should always pull out, but
• 29:38
  it's hard to do it the last. Time it is.
• 29:40
  Especially when you think you know it's Stephen Fry.
• 29:45
  It's the minister of chance from death comes to time.
• 29:49
  It is, it is, and it's perfect for this role.
• 29:52
  It's sort of jubilant government operative.
• 29:56
  By the way, why did the Saturn of not just shoot them?
• 29:58
  Why is it shooting all over the place?
• 30:00
  And when actually it's a stupid question to it's Doctor Who,
• 30:03
  let's make. It stop.
• 30:06
  I'd also like to talk a little bit about Doctor Who supposedly
• 30:11
  wasting cameos and wasting appearances by opinions about
• 30:16
  that. I hate this so.
• 30:20
  The way it works is you write a script, and it's very rare that
• 30:23
  you write a script with a particular actor in mind.
• 30:25
  Then they come to cast it, and it's a lot of the times there
• 30:28
  are two things that will decide whether someone's going to do
• 30:30
  it. The amount of days it takes to
• 30:32
  film, which Stephen Fry, if he was on set for more than two
• 30:36
  days, I'll be very surprised. And how much money you're going
• 30:38
  to pay them. And you always have a long list
• 30:40
  of people you'd love to do it. And you've got to see who's
• 30:42
  available, who wants to do it. I imagine Stephen Fry very busy
• 30:45
  man, was not like. It wasn't like, oh, we we
• 30:48
  offered him a big part and he couldn't take it or he didn't
• 30:51
  want it. It's just he probably had two
• 30:53
  days free when they were filming this and said, do you want to do
• 30:55
  it? And he was like, yes, I've got
• 30:56
  two days free. He went to Cardiff, did his
• 30:58
  thing, and that's the same with everybody else.
• 31:01
  So the idea they're wasting a guest star.
• 31:03
  Do you know how busy that man is?
• 31:04
  Do you know how busy he is? Yeah, they're not going to.
• 31:07
  You're not going to just suddenly cast him as the master
• 31:09
  or something like that. And that is an attention
• 31:12
  grabbing name. Yeah, whatever anyone thinks.
• 31:14
  And of course, like Mothy says, sure, you know, if so and so's
• 31:18
  available, I'm going to put them in.
• 31:20
  Of course I am. You know it's going to get
• 31:22
  people watching. And it's a great sort of
• 31:25
  distraction from the real guest star of the episode, which is
• 31:28
  Sasha Dhawan, who wasn't in any of the promo material.
• 31:31
  It's a lazy criticism to say that they wasted a guest star
• 31:36
  Olivia Coleman Mind to give her what I always.
• 31:39
  Choose. Ian McKellen, Michael.
• 31:42
  It's only because I would love to see Olivia Coleman in a big,
• 31:45
  juicy role. And I'm sure she could still do
• 31:49
  it. You.
• 31:49
  Doctor Who is not afraid to reuse guest stars.
• 31:52
  But why? Would you not use the best star
• 31:55
  you can in this scenario? Fair comments.
• 31:59
  Oh, I love all of this crazy tech.
• 32:01
  They've got laser shoes, laser cufflinks.
• 32:04
  My favorite moment was when they announced Stephen Fry and he was
• 32:08
  shot on a little video with like a crease cheats dangling behind
• 32:12
  him. What was all about?
• 32:14
  A light came on and he looked like a bloody grandma did.
• 32:18
  You, my guilty pleasure of the episode is the laser shoes.
• 32:20
  Sorry. Come on.
• 32:21
  I love the laser shoes. It's a very shit Doctor Who.
• 32:24
  I do well brothers gets to the results shoe shuffle lines only
• 32:30
  as well, which makes me die. It's no stupider than the
• 32:33
  concept of a Sonic screwdriver or Sonic.
• 32:36
  Sunglasses or. Anything like that?
• 32:38
  I love the Sonic sunglasses, but it's a science fiction version
• 32:42
  of the spy genre as well. It's perfect.
• 32:46
  What was fiction? Science.
• 32:47
  Fancy. Who sang the song to Skyfall?
• 32:51
  Can we get into it? A spyfall?
• 32:53
  Yeah. Why?
• 32:54
  That's a trick. They really miss getting her to
• 32:56
  read. They should.
• 32:57
  Have given her a bigger role. They should have given her a
• 32:59
  bigger role. That version of yellow she did
• 33:01
  was gorgeous. She can sing.
• 33:04
  Oh, I hate Coldplay in all of their forms.
• 33:06
  So if there was one thing that put me off, Jody Whitaker, it
• 33:09
  was listening to us sings. Yeah.
• 33:11
  That whole charity album was a bit dodge.
• 33:14
  I mean, Sean Dingell does Taylor Swift's cardigan.
• 33:17
  I think it's not the best listen.
• 33:20
  I've I've listened to better big finishes.
• 33:22
  I think I've heard tenant do 500 miles.
• 33:25
  Oh. That's not.
• 33:26
  Great. Either.
• 33:27
  Yeah, apparently there's an album out there from a theater
• 33:29
  group. I can't remember.
• 33:30
  What was it? Was it on your podcast, Joe?
• 33:32
  I can't remember. Somebody said the other day.
• 33:34
  And Mark Strickson singing on it.
• 33:36
  Oh Christ, really. The track record of Doctor Who
• 33:39
  actors singing songs is not great.
• 33:41
  This really gives me the Billy Piper like.
• 33:44
  Serious crisis. Big serious.
• 33:46
  Why does she talk at this? It really gives me the Matt
• 33:49
  Smith would have those exact lines.
• 33:51
  I know I've said this. It's a snap joke all over again.
• 33:53
  And she delivers some perfect all of this dragging, the
• 33:58
  dragging, the Doctor in big mystery spies being killed.
• 34:02
  This all feels very pert way to me.
• 34:04
  It feels very Doctor Who. Just, I just don't buy it.
• 34:08
  I just, I just think it's an actor trying to be goofy and
• 34:11
  trying to be quirky. And that's how I feel about
• 34:15
  later. We were Matt Smith.
• 34:17
  I mean. I get it.
• 34:19
  Once you kind of got that, it's really hard to shake it.
• 34:24
  I love the fact that I kill off Stephen Fry as well, you know,
• 34:27
  because it's it's like the the psycho effect.
• 34:29
  Anyway, Janet Lee, you think this is going to be the big
• 34:32
  guest star of the of the episode and then two things later, he's
• 34:35
  murdered? I think it's a really good move,
• 34:37
  and especially for the reason Dylan said as well.
• 34:39
  They wrote it. It makes you not think about the
• 34:42
  other star that's in the episode now, the war coming through the
• 34:46
  walls and then taking on the design of whatever's in the
• 34:50
  walls, like they're doing the TARDIS and the flag there and
• 34:52
  all of that. I thought that was a savvy
• 34:53
  visual move as well. They look really cool and I
• 34:56
  think everybody kept saying they look like Tom Baker.
• 34:59
  They could have been revealed to be an army of Tom Baker's.
• 35:03
  That would have been cool. That's fucking terrifying,
• 35:05
  honestly. I think they fail.
• 35:08
  You know it. It it's.
• 35:10
  In summary, I think they fail. I think that the effects they're
• 35:12
  pretty cool, but I think they fail because they don't really
• 35:16
  transform into anything recognizable.
• 35:18
  They they they have this little bit and then the mainly just
• 35:21
  beams of white light and I was sort of waiting for them to take
• 35:24
  a final. Form basically.
• 35:27
  I was waiting for them to transform into the board because
• 35:29
  I think that was the fun. There we go around, But you know
• 35:33
  what Doctor Who designs are generally?
• 35:35
  Shit. I'll take them as beams of white
• 35:37
  light. I'm terrible, but you know what
• 35:39
  I mean. I think they they would.
• 35:40
  This was like an intermittent form at the.
• 35:43
  I think this is not the fault of this episode or of Chris
• 35:46
  Chibnall. I think this is the fault of
• 35:49
  Doctor Who fans overthinking things.
• 35:51
  They're an invading force from another universe.
• 35:54
  That's all they need to be. But they are just the white
• 35:56
  light. So what they were all.
• 35:59
  White. Yeah.
• 36:01
  And they were, yeah, everyone's favorite villains.
• 36:04
  The Vardins, yeah. And I've heard the criticism as
• 36:08
  well that we don't really learn much about them, actually are
• 36:10
  paid for. Actually, that's because the
• 36:11
  Vardins still transform. They turn into the little
• 36:14
  soldiers I know, and it's bloody disappointing, my point exactly.
• 36:18
  Yeah, blokes, if it was the Vardins, would you be happy?
• 36:24
  I don't know. So people could blame the the
• 36:29
  vore that we don't really go into a lot of detail about what
• 36:32
  what they're about. Actually, there is a bit of
• 36:33
  detail in episode 2. It's enough to tell the story
• 36:36
  and it's certainly as much as we found out about the silence in
• 36:40
  that two-part that you were raving about last time.
• 36:44
  I feel like they have a function.
• 36:45
  They're a monster. They're scary.
• 36:47
  They have a great hook that they come through the walls.
• 36:49
  I just think that I literally just think we should have.
• 36:53
  They just need an extra level to go up.
• 36:54
  I think I quite like. I like the world, I like that
• 36:58
  green world with all the tenders hanging down.
• 37:01
  It looks because it feels, it feels like it's from a separate
• 37:04
  dimensional universe. It really works in that level.
• 37:07
  I just there's not to remember that you don't go out, you don't
• 37:11
  have kids in the street or like you know, people who Watch Dogs
• 37:14
  too are going. How do you remember the
• 37:15
  Cassarvin? And I know you can apply that to
• 37:19
  a lot. I know there's such an
• 37:20
  embarrassment of riches in this story, right?
• 37:23
  It's that the monsters don't really matter because you got
• 37:25
  fabulous Lenny Henry being smooth as and then you got
• 37:28
  amazing Sasha Dewan being sinister and psychotic.
• 37:31
  And people do remember Sasha Dewan as the master.
• 37:35
  We'll save. We'll save talking about him
• 37:37
  until the time comes. Don't you even start with me,
• 37:41
  right? Have you seen my name?
• 37:44
  I have seen Johnson. Want to be on your?
• 37:50
  Way It's also interesting to remember, at least the way I
• 37:55
  remember it, when I went online after this episode and the next
• 37:58
  episode were aired, the overwhelming response I saw on
• 38:01
  Twitter was very positive. And I think the negative
• 38:05
  reaction to the finale, I think sometimes taints this whole
• 38:09
  series, as with the previous season and.
• 38:13
  I remember everybody going, Oh my God, that was one that was
• 38:16
  amazing. That was one of the best
• 38:17
  episodes to talk to who And then by the and now it's all been
• 38:20
  tarnished with this brush of like speeding the time as
• 38:23
  children. So it's a terrible terrible.
• 38:25
  To be fair though, I think see Series 6 is tarnished with that
• 38:29
  brush as well, that a lot of people found that final episode
• 38:32
  very disappointing. And I know I don't like it, but
• 38:35
  plenty of people do, and it's considered a bit of a failure
• 38:38
  because of that last episode. I think it happens quite a bit.
• 38:41
  I think it's a competent, I think part one, especially as a
• 38:44
  competent opener. I didn't, I didn't like a lot of
• 38:49
  service, 12 at the time. I mean, I actually weirdly did
• 38:52
  like go from 55. I had a glass of red, I had a
• 38:55
  glass of red, and it was just actually like quite quick and
• 38:58
  entertaining and I just thought it was quite good.
• 39:01
  Nikola Tesla bought the life out of it.
• 39:03
  I really love that one. I've I've seen it again as well
• 39:06
  and it just didn't again didn't do anything.
• 39:09
  My issue with Nikola Tesla's night of terror is that the
• 39:13
  monster reveal and the monsters come too late.
• 39:16
  It's a fine runaround romp, sort of early in the season, but this
• 39:20
  it just takes too long to get where it's.
• 39:22
  Going the monster again. So it's fabulous scorpion
• 39:25
  creatures that chase them around.
• 39:26
  It's New York. Yeah, see, they look great on
• 39:28
  the street shots, but when you actually get on the spaceship
• 39:31
  and it's just Ronny and then face makeup.
• 39:35
  Does not look great. I saw a fan.
• 39:38
  Gone. I'm just gonna say I saw a
• 39:39
  fantastic moment on Twitter where someone goes Yas is the
• 39:42
  best companion cuz she tries to stop giant scorpions with bread
• 39:45
  and there's that moment where she knocks over like a stool of
• 39:48
  bread to try and stop the scorpions.
• 39:50
  I'm gonna take a pump now and say for me this is the best ever
• 39:57
  master reveal, stroke, disguise. The way that he's hidden within
• 40:02
  this script and the way that you're sort of forced to look in
• 40:06
  all these other directions apart from him and then sort of how
• 40:10
  obvious it is once it is revealed.
• 40:12
  I think it's beauty and and how his performance shifts.
• 40:16
  No, I had not for me. It's up there with the Derek
• 40:20
  Jacoby one for me. I think they're both on par in
• 40:23
  very different ways. Now I had it spoiled, and I had
• 40:28
  it spoiled probably three or four months beforehand on the
• 40:33
  Strangers in Space. They did like a spoilers.
• 40:36
  It was specifically Barber spoilers and he said what do we
• 40:39
  think of the rumors that Sasha Dhawan is in the series playing
• 40:42
  The Master and everyone would get now, Well that's bollocks.
• 40:45
  You would have heard of Sasha Dhawan was in the series and
• 40:47
  then when he showed up. Because he was playing such a
• 40:50
  different character. I was like, no, they've got it
• 40:51
  wrong and that's just someone doing it.
• 40:53
  And then when you do get that switch all of a sudden, I mean
• 40:57
  we'll talk about it later, but I think he's so likable in this
• 41:00
  form much like Jacobi that you you want him to be a regular in
• 41:06
  this format. I was so, you know, I was so
• 41:08
  excited by the real because I've been tricked and I've spent so
• 41:12
  long looking at the nuts and bolts of television.
• 41:14
  I figured this sort of thing wouldn't fool me anymore.
• 41:17
  So I left out my feet. So and then I was like, oh, I
• 41:19
  really like that guy. He was, you know, like he was
• 41:22
  really nice. I don't think Doctor Who the TV
• 41:25
  series has ever nailed it quite as well as Joe Lydster does in
• 41:29
  The Audio Master, though. Where you?
• 41:32
  Wait, wait, wait, wait. Not heard it yet, but I'm doing
• 41:34
  it very soon. Do you?
• 41:36
  Know the masters in it? I do, yeah.
• 41:39
  It's not a stunt reveal in that, so that's all I'll say.
• 41:44
  It's You'll see where it's going straight away.
• 41:47
  It's not a real spoiler. It's just interesting the way
• 41:50
  it's handled. I can't believe you never heard
• 41:52
  that. Wow.
• 41:54
  I'm going to do it for finish big.
• 41:56
  So sort of falling off on it. Oh, I see.
• 41:59
  OK. It's it's not, it's not very
• 42:01
  good. I'm sorry.
• 42:06
  The one in the role, I think he's just perfect for this role.
• 42:09
  No, I've got big issues with the one in the role, but we'll delve
• 42:12
  into a bit more in part too. But at the time, watching it, I
• 42:16
  remember the the reveal happened and I just thought, that's cool.
• 42:21
  That was my general reaction. It wasn't, like, out.
• 42:22
  You see unworthy of Doctor Who. Luke Maloy.
• 42:25
  No, it just because it it comes too much out of nowhere I think
• 42:29
  for me I mean like you go. I can't believe I was wrong
• 42:32
  footed by it, but I can because it very easy because if just not
• 42:36
  being the master as well. Yeah, but Part 2 relies on them
• 42:40
  100% being the master and indeed the art for the series.
• 42:44
  It is a complete hinge for the story that he is the master.
• 42:47
  We go in a completely different direction after that.
• 42:50
  Yeah, we got about 15 directions.
• 42:52
  If not too, but you know, is that a good thing?
• 42:55
  I do have a question on Doctor Who continuity here, and this
• 42:58
  isn't a dig at this story because it applies to nearly
• 43:02
  every story the Master is is in, apart from one, which is Utopia
• 43:07
  and Sound of Drums. Why?
• 43:08
  Is that the only occasion where the Doctor can sense the Master
• 43:12
  being around? No, it's a fair point.
• 43:17
  I mean Master always end up shaking up with these dreadful
• 43:20
  aliens, not always try and turn on him.
• 43:23
  The master story before this is, I think, a million times better
• 43:28
  at wrong foot in the audience and being a better master reveal
• 43:32
  with Johnson taking off. I think the Gomez, the Gomez
• 43:35
  reveal in dark water isn't a patch on this.
• 43:39
  No, no, that, not that one. The Johnson one in the mask.
• 43:43
  Yeah, but we all knew it was Johnson in the mask, right?
• 43:45
  No, we didn't. We did.
• 43:48
  I was sat there getting actually quite angry that they said
• 43:53
  Johnson was in it and he wasn't in it, and then and then he
• 43:56
  takes the mask off. You make a good point there
• 43:59
  about that, because I think my reaction to do on at the end of
• 44:02
  this episode almost entirely justifies for me chippers
• 44:06
  terrible lack of publicity and spoilers.
• 44:11
  For the seasons ahead, because if it gives me moments like that
• 44:14
  and moments like the Fugitive Dr. and and things like that,
• 44:18
  then I'm all for. It still works even though I
• 44:23
  knew who's coming back. I'm sat there waiting for it to
• 44:25
  come back and it works better because he's been in front of me
• 44:27
  the entire time. I guess it's whether you can
• 44:30
  decide whether you notice it again that I said I just was
• 44:33
  like, well that's John Simon, a mask like about 30 seconds, but
• 44:36
  I mean. I took me a couple of scenes, I
• 44:39
  think. The performance was good enough.
• 44:43
  And then the the the Michelle Gomez thing was nice to sort of
• 44:47
  build up over the story but it was and the fact that she even
• 44:50
  says about watch them a random access something or rather that
• 44:54
  spells out Ronnie and stuff like that.
• 44:57
  But there was no point that I was ever like that's the Ronnie.
• 45:00
  It was always the Master. There's there's no twist.
• 45:02
  And and and you know, they come out of some Paul's and the
• 45:05
  sidemen are there. And again, it's all stuff we've
• 45:07
  seen before. And I was just like, I'm
• 45:10
  supposed to be excited by any of the destruction of Gather, for
• 45:13
  at the end of the story to say no, but I'm.
• 45:15
  Talking about the end of this episode where they're on a
• 45:17
  plane, there's just been a bomb has gone off.
• 45:20
  And it's all the shit's hitting the fan.
• 45:22
  And in the midst of that, there's a master reveal as well.
• 45:25
  I mean, it's exciting. I'm the beginning of the
• 45:28
  timeless child. Where he's going, you know
• 45:31
  everything's about to change, of which is sort.
• 45:33
  Of now, that's a good line. Everything you know is a lie.
• 45:40
  I love this stuff with the what the Kavarians Kevorians is.
• 45:44
  You know, they're nice. Yeah, I mean you know it's most
• 45:48
  Doctor Who monsters them just starting to surround the the
• 45:54
  their little Hut in the Outback and say, I just like, it's just
• 45:57
  classic Doctor Who. Yeah, it still.
• 46:00
  Gets me. Excited.
• 46:04
  Yeah. Yeah, you're right.
• 46:07
  It still gets me excited that we are in locations around the
• 46:10
  world though, you know, because so often in Classic Who we were
• 46:13
  just, you know, 5 minutes from the M25.
• 46:17
  Yeah, it's rather I quite like it when it's fabulous.
• 46:24
  No, no, it's a good thing. It's a good thing.
• 46:26
  I bet you do. I really.
• 46:32
  I really like Sasha Dhawan as oh, as this cute little spy man.
• 46:38
  I do. I like Spy Masters.
• 46:40
  Well, that is the only hint, isn't it?
• 46:43
  Which is really bloody obvious. I'll give it that.
• 46:47
  Yeah. I'm not sure I care about any of
• 46:49
  these God characters. I'm just like no.
• 46:51
  No, but they're there just to be.
• 46:53
  Star Trek riches, aren't they? Yeah, exactly.
• 46:55
  Doctor Who always needs some UNIT soldiers or whatever to get
• 46:58
  murdered. I do like Yaz and Ryan off
• 47:04
  investigating Mr. Barton, though.
• 47:06
  I feel like the companions are getting enough to do it.
• 47:08
  Yeah. I don't know, it's it's a bit
• 47:11
  enough in it. It's a bit like, no, it is
• 47:13
  though. It's like Ryan and the House is
• 47:15
  just easily strolling around. Basically Google HQ because you
• 47:19
  get. That brilliant moment where
• 47:21
  they're just hiding behind the sofa like the worst spies ever.
• 47:25
  And he walks in the room and goes, I know you're here and I
• 47:29
  remember watching it going, oh shit, and he's talking about the
• 47:31
  Kassarga, isn't he? And not about that.
• 47:33
  It's a great moment. It's fine.
• 47:36
  Also, the fact that, you know, the companions always get to
• 47:40
  have that, those moments of like, oh, I'm going to go
• 47:42
  undercover investigating. It's a classic Doctor Who can
• 47:45
  see this is where they most look like Tom Baker though, isn't it?
• 47:48
  Yeah. Let's see.
• 47:50
  Oh yeah. Thanks Dylan.
• 47:53
  I'm never going to not see that anymore.
• 47:58
  Somebody, somewhere is going to Photoshop for me and we'll get a
• 48:01
  new version where it's just the 4th Doctor, The Collection set.
• 48:05
  Yeah, they make me buy it. What's a collective noun for a
• 48:09
  load of drunks? A load of drunks, right?
• 48:15
  A load of a flock of Toms. No, that is all I can see.
• 48:26
  Yeah, I've never noticed that before, I've got to say.
• 48:30
  In it, it's the hat. It's the hat.
• 48:32
  Have you ever seen. Have you ever seen them without
• 48:35
  the effects on them? Because they are people in
• 48:37
  seats? They're sort of no, are they
• 48:39
  Like Cronos from the time on stuff?
• 48:42
  A little bit, yeah. There's a bit of Cronos energy
• 48:45
  to them. It's there's somebody who works
• 48:48
  doing VFX for this series. Basically put up their reel and
• 48:53
  it was like before. And afters of things, it's on
• 48:55
  YouTube, you can see it and it's well worth a look.
• 48:58
  You don't think he's had a big clue as well, but he is not who
• 49:02
  he seems to be, but he seems to have all this technology in his
• 49:05
  little house. That can capture beings from
• 49:08
  another fucking universe. Yeah, but I mean it's it's
• 49:12
  really interesting actually that MI6 are also just like, no, we
• 49:15
  don't, we don't bother with aliens.
• 49:16
  So we've just got one guy that looks after aliens and no point
• 49:20
  unit when we should pick this guy.
• 49:22
  I know they've gone at that. They've gone.
• 49:23
  They've gone. Let's not get into that if not.
• 49:26
  They come back. What are you moaning about?
• 49:28
  It doesn't bother me. Just say it's controversy at the
• 49:30
  time. Yeah, it'll bother you.
• 49:33
  It was like the tubes in the TARDIS.
• 49:35
  UNIT will bother you when it's a bunch of 60 year old former
• 49:38
  Doctor Who companions from the 80s with their own empowering
• 49:41
  spin off show. I can't wait.
• 49:44
  I I only like Junior once. Maybe I like unit in the 70s
• 49:49
  when it's a cursy little family and I like it in in 89, in
• 49:52
  Battlefield, when it's campus shit.
• 49:55
  And that's the only real time I've liked doing it.
• 49:57
  You don't like the doctor, then? I don't like that unit like I.
• 50:02
  Know what? It's Gemma Redgrave.
• 50:03
  And it should have been. What's like about Jodie
• 50:07
  Whitkin's doctor? Because a complaint I've heard
• 50:11
  from Toby Haley on my own podcast is that she always has
• 50:14
  all the answers about everything.
• 50:16
  So she comes in and she's pulling out information about
• 50:18
  every planet they go to and every alien race they go to and
• 50:21
  things like that. There is a. 10 minute sequence
• 50:24
  here where she has no clue who these people are, where she's
• 50:28
  trying to figure out who they are, what their language is,
• 50:31
  what they're about, where they are.
• 50:33
  I think it's a fallacy that she's got all the answers.
• 50:37
  In fact, I would say she's one of the doctors that has the
• 50:39
  least amount of answers. She's always bloody asking
• 50:42
  questions, she? Had a way to learn Luke.
• 50:49
  So here's a question for you, Luke.
• 50:52
  And if this was exactly the same story, but it was Matt Smith, do
• 50:54
  you think you'd have more time for it?
• 50:58
  I definitely think I'd have more time for it.
• 51:00
  Yeah. I mean, that's 100%.
• 51:02
  I'd have more time for it, but I'd still have the sort of
• 51:06
  problem I've got with Sasha, the ones master, which is just that
• 51:10
  we've had it before in John SIM, but I I'd rather talk about that
• 51:13
  bit more as we as we get near it.
• 51:15
  But, but I think, again, we're in this era.
• 51:18
  I've said this about Jodie's Dr. before and I think it still
• 51:21
  stands for Shooty Gatler as well, is that we're now in an
• 51:24
  era where the people playing the Doctor or indeed The Master have
• 51:27
  only seen the new series versions of those characters.
• 51:30
  So if they are drawing from anyone, it's going to be the sin
• 51:33
  master. May seem recent, but you know,
• 51:36
  at this point, admittedly, he's been back, but it's still.
• 51:38
  Two years, Three years since we've seen the Sin Master.
• 51:41
  That's a long time in the the mind of a casual viewer who.
• 51:45
  There are people that think the sin master was the first one
• 51:48
  right back at the start. But I mean all the doctors, you
• 51:52
  know, are different to an extent.
• 51:53
  All the modern doctors are sort of Matt Smith and Tenant source
• 51:56
  similar but like they're different enough.
• 51:59
  That there's no reason. I think Matt Smith, Tenant and
• 52:02
  Whitaker, you could put them all in the same sort of category as
• 52:06
  very similar doctors. I think the only ones to be
• 52:09
  truly unique is from the the brand.
• 52:12
  It's probably Capaldi and Echo echoes the.
• 52:18
  The other thing about the Master is it's not just the Master
• 52:21
  himself and I I just think he's riveting to watch.
• 52:24
  And I know you don't, but I do. I like that sort of psychotic
• 52:28
  child. I wouldn't say it's not riveting
• 52:30
  to watch. But it's the effects they have
• 52:33
  on the Doctor that they're paired with, and Dewan brings
• 52:36
  something out of Whitaker that you don't see at any other
• 52:39
  point. I don't.
• 52:39
  And it's like when she bares her teeth and she gets properly
• 52:43
  angry. And I love those things.
• 52:46
  I don't see that. I'll point out you an episode,
• 52:49
  but I don't see like her performance raising to anything
• 52:53
  or. And I definitely don't feel, I
• 52:55
  don't feel like that sort of connection like the Doctor and
• 53:00
  the Master have, where it's tenancy or it's Capaldi and
• 53:03
  Misty or Delgado and Perkley. That stuff, when they're on top
• 53:06
  of the Watchtower, I think is the best.
• 53:09
  Doctor. Doctor Master scenes I've ever
• 53:10
  seen? No, it's just it's just two
• 53:12
  people. It almost feels like a YouTube
• 53:16
  fan film of people in the Times. Of children where they're in the
• 53:19
  Matrix. I mean, that's all Gray Field,
• 53:22
  those scenes as well. She's amazing in those scenes.
• 53:26
  She's show me the rest. She froze him to the ground.
• 53:29
  I love it. No, I just failed to.
• 53:32
  I believe anyone could be intimidated by her or or treat
• 53:36
  her with sort of or think that she's got any sort of authority
• 53:39
  with the way she acts and if I was in a room with her, I just
• 53:43
  want to immediately leave. Exactly how I feel about Matt
• 53:48
  Smith, Yeah. I mean, we'll just go back and
• 53:52
  forth. Every time you say it back, all
• 53:57
  right, Yeah, no, it's it's fine. I can only say how I feel.
• 54:01
  I'm trying to sort of articulate, but it's very hard
• 54:04
  that it's just like a feeling. You're not too sure why.
• 54:07
  But like, in terms of a story as well, I think this is just being
• 54:10
  told very, very well. It's introduced a big mystery.
• 54:14
  There's a lot of investigation. It does build up momentum
• 54:18
  towards the climax. You realize Barton's involved.
• 54:20
  We go to his house, we learn more about that, then we go to
• 54:24
  the plane. We build up to a massive climax
• 54:26
  and a hell of a cliffhanger in terms of a piece of
• 54:29
  storytelling. I think it's very well done.
• 54:31
  Well, I'm going to say something now and it's going to sound
• 54:33
  stupid, but it it doesn't feel real right, I think.
• 54:42
  The 10 feels very real to me. RTD would manage, you know,
• 54:46
  would manage to make this feel like it's sort of set on our
• 54:50
  earth. This doesn't particularly feel
• 54:52
  like it just feels a bit too far fetched for me.
• 54:54
  I know it's just by pastiche. I know it's also Doctor Who
• 54:57
  combined into one, but I struggle to buy into.
• 55:01
  I know what you're saying. I know you're saying, but I
• 55:03
  think Chibbers is leaning into classic who more than RTD who.
• 55:08
  And this just feels like a very well done classical stories
• 55:11
  away. I think he leads into it more as
• 55:14
  well. I think he leads into RTD though
• 55:17
  like I do think. I think he takes a lot of
• 55:18
  influence from it and I think this series, well the the
• 55:23
  Chignel era was sort of a direct response to them Office era
• 55:26
  being too overly complicated and too sort of too science fiction
• 55:32
  heavy, if that makes sense. I think that's why season 11 was
• 55:35
  a breath of fresh air and then it was sort of half
• 55:38
  disappointing that we went back to doing Origin stuff.
• 55:42
  I don't think it was sustainable.
• 55:44
  I think it's it's a really interesting one offseason, but I
• 55:48
  don't think that sort of why not do something new?
• 55:52
  Well, this is new. We haven't done a James Bond
• 55:54
  past each before. I mean as a story arc, going to
• 55:58
  having a forgotten Doctor destroying Gallifrey and touched
• 56:02
  on the origins of Doctor Who has all been done before.
• 56:05
  Why not do something new? You can still have a big like
• 56:08
  arc full of twists and stuff, but it's all the same twists
• 56:12
  we've already seen. But now we've got a huge
• 56:14
  mythology that wasn't there before that can be tapped, as it
• 56:18
  may or may not be, but it's not going to and if it was going if
• 56:26
  it. Was going to be tapped.
• 56:27
  It should have been tapped. That's.
• 56:29
  Nonsense. We do tap into that.
• 56:31
  Not maybe as much as you want to, but they certainly tap into
• 56:34
  it in flux. We go back to those stories.
• 56:36
  No, we don't though. We don't.
• 56:38
  Have you seen? Once Upon a Time?
• 56:40
  A tech team turns up and tells her all the same stuff that was
• 56:45
  told in the Timeless Children and then she dies.
• 56:47
  There's. Literally.
• 56:50
  Her villains were swarming Azure back in the past.
• 56:53
  The whole season is built. Around Once Upon Time, It's not
• 56:56
  a Doctor Who story set before An Earthly Child, literally set in
• 57:01
  the past of The Doctor. That's why people don't like it,
• 57:04
  No. So listen is as well.
• 57:06
  Yeah, but only a few minutes. And I mean, I like listen, but I
• 57:10
  never needed to see the doctor. It's definitely only a few
• 57:12
  minutes, and Once Upon a time, that story hops all over the
• 57:14
  shop. I'd rather see those, but it's
• 57:17
  not swarming as your being the enemies of the roof, Doctor.
• 57:20
  It's just not essential to flux. They could be the enemies of
• 57:24
  Jody's Dr. It's not. It doesn't have to be set before
• 57:28
  you. Just said there was a don't
• 57:29
  explore that path and they do. I don't think they do.
• 57:33
  They say one time oh she had these enemies and she went on
• 57:36
  this adventure on planet time and that is it.
• 57:41
  But that that could no. But what I'm trying to say is
• 57:43
  that could be any enemy that that enemy could be from any
• 57:46
  time and that adventure could be set.
• 57:49
  No no but it. But there has to be a reason why
• 57:52
  you would set it before the like the the First Doctor.
• 57:57
  There is a reason. It's the speculation.
• 58:01
  And it's learning about swarming Azur, who were from that time.
• 58:04
  Sure, it's not sure it's not justified enough.
• 58:09
  Doctor Doctor Who fans just want her to look in the mirror and
• 58:12
  that and to fucking see Patrick Traton's face or something like
• 58:15
  that. It's just.
• 58:16
  Because we're all obsessed with somebody who's been dead for 30
• 58:20
  fucking years. Nobody in mainstream media knows
• 58:23
  who he is. It's not justified enough
• 58:26
  innovations. About a heart attack, you know
• 58:28
  not again. Sorry, Luke.
• 58:34
  Go on. You're trying to make a point.
• 58:36
  Sorry Ian, I'll just say it's not justified enough to set it
• 58:41
  beforehand and it just be a normal adventure that any doctor
• 58:44
  at any other week could have. Like if you're going to make the
• 58:48
  point of, it has to be sort of special.
• 58:50
  About any villain in any Doctor story at any point, no.
• 58:54
  But specifically this, because it's a different whatever it's
• 58:59
  meant, whatever the Doctor on this timeline, whatever's meant
• 59:02
  to be. Right.
• 59:03
  People talk about Dalek as, you know this big reinvention of the
• 59:07
  Daleks. But how easily and quickly did
• 59:10
  that when they love briefly lost the rights of the Daleks?
• 59:13
  That they managed to take the Dalek out of that and put in the
• 59:16
  fucking. Floaty balls from three seasons
• 59:18
  later. Thankfully, we never seen that
• 59:21
  version. No, but I just.
• 59:22
  I think you underestimate how interchangeable threats in
• 59:26
  Doctor Who are. Even in some of the biggest is
• 59:28
  very rare. You get a story that can only be
• 59:30
  told for that monster, that villain, that Doctor.
• 59:34
  In fact, I can think of only a handful, but it seems pointless
• 59:39
  to sort of, you know, the origins of Doctor, to put an
• 59:45
  enemy and a story before hunt for when it could just go
• 59:50
  anywhere. It doesn't change the roots of
• 59:52
  Doctor Who. It just gives, it gives you
• 59:53
  more, right? Because it doesn't change
• 59:55
  anything We've anything we've it doesn't can to contradict
• 59:59
  anything we've heard before. Really, it doesn't change it for
• 1:00:01
  me because I just don't believe. It that's the issue that I have,
• 1:00:04
  they feel like it's contradicting.
• 1:00:06
  All of those stories that we've had before, but actually now
• 1:00:09
  they gave a shit about anything that came before.
• 1:00:11
  They were just telling stories. I I think a lot of fans, me
• 1:00:14
  included, just go. That didn't happen in the same
• 1:00:17
  way that in the TV movie, he says.
• 1:00:19
  He's half human and a lot of fans turn around and that didn't
• 1:00:22
  happen. As far as I'm concerned, it all
• 1:00:24
  happened, you know, curse of fatal death, they're all
• 1:00:27
  doctors. I I do remember Luke and Chris
• 1:00:29
  on Lost on Gallifrey decanonizing most of the
• 1:00:32
  Whitaker era. If I was that was half, half
• 1:00:36
  gags. Could.
• 1:00:39
  I could I very quickly just bring us back to the story
• 1:00:42
  because I just that wasn't a criticism guys, sorry.
• 1:00:46
  Because we just had a moment where Yaz was whisked off into
• 1:00:49
  that very bizarre realm, which I do like visually.
• 1:00:53
  I think it's very especially when it pulls out and it's sort
• 1:00:55
  of endless. It's not.
• 1:00:57
  It's nice and weird. And she thought she was going to
• 1:00:59
  die. And then we have a sequence
• 1:01:00
  where she's overwhelmed by the fact that she thought she was
• 1:01:04
  going to die. And I think that's him again,
• 1:01:06
  addressing the fact that people say that Yaz wasn't getting
• 1:01:08
  enough focus. See, I just think it's a bit
• 1:01:11
  steep, is no, no, I like the world and I like her going
• 1:01:15
  there. I think her it's too easy that
• 1:01:17
  she's just magically pulled back a second later.
• 1:01:20
  Why not leave her in that world to properly explore or get
• 1:01:24
  hunted or something, and then when she comes back, then she's
• 1:01:28
  crying and a bit haunted by it all.
• 1:01:30
  It seems too easy that one minute later she's pulled back
• 1:01:32
  and she's upset. She's been on alien worlds
• 1:01:35
  before. There was nothing going on in
• 1:01:36
  that world. There's no reason why she'd be
• 1:01:38
  upset. I'll not say how you fare on
• 1:01:40
  these adventures. You know, I'll be crying my eyes
• 1:01:42
  out every 5 minutes while they get out.
• 1:01:44
  It's not real, Joe. It's not real.
• 1:01:48
  I think, I think, God, I've forgotten her name.
• 1:01:52
  Mandy Gill delivers fear, especially when you think about
• 1:01:57
  scenes in like Village of the Angels and things like that.
• 1:02:00
  Pretty much better than any other companion in in the new
• 1:02:02
  series run, I think. I think she's desperately
• 1:02:06
  underrated. I don't think she's very good,
• 1:02:08
  but I only say that because she doesn't make me feel anything
• 1:02:12
  and so it's hard to know whether it's just because I don't buy
• 1:02:15
  into the show that then I don't buy into, you know, all the
• 1:02:19
  separate bits. I think we're quite used to
• 1:02:22
  having very special companions as well.
• 1:02:24
  You know, like we've had the whole Amy Pond and we've had the
• 1:02:27
  whole Clara Bill. Less so but.
• 1:02:31
  I think it's it is a bit of a shock for everybody that, you
• 1:02:34
  know, not everybody's actually with the songs Parents or Be an
• 1:02:37
  Impossible Girl or anything. But I think we've had so many
• 1:02:40
  seasons of elevated companions we don't necessarily have to.
• 1:02:43
  Be very special people, huh? You don't necessarily have to be
• 1:02:47
  special, I think. The best of the best, I think
• 1:02:50
  all the companions, the other companions are just interesting.
• 1:02:54
  These are just ordinary people. I don't think it's very
• 1:02:56
  interesting to watch. Sometimes it is, but I think
• 1:02:59
  three of them alongside each other isn't.
• 1:03:01
  And all the other companions, whether they are, you know,
• 1:03:05
  well, let's just focus on Bill, who is just a normal person, but
• 1:03:09
  she's actually really interested and engaging to watch.
• 1:03:12
  What's so interesting about Bill?
• 1:03:13
  I've I've still, I think the performance is great.
• 1:03:16
  Yeah, I think she's very naturalistic and she's fun to
• 1:03:19
  watch. What is so interesting about
• 1:03:21
  that character too? This is where it boils down to
• 1:03:23
  just a feeling I love watching. She is just a contemporary
• 1:03:26
  character, Light rose, who steps into the TARDIS.
• 1:03:29
  There's nothing especially, yeah, But I love watching it.
• 1:03:33
  I feel like she's a real character that I'm invested in,
• 1:03:37
  in a way that I just don't with yours.
• 1:03:39
  And it's not necessarily like all of them, because I sort of
• 1:03:44
  quite like Graham and Ryan's relationship, as much as
• 1:03:47
  toasting cold doesn't give a shit about what he's doing at
• 1:03:50
  all. I think, I think that's a strong
• 1:03:54
  possibility. You're right there, it's.
• 1:03:56
  It's how it works it. Somehow does.
• 1:03:59
  I know, It's baffling, isn't it? I mean, I mean.
• 1:04:03
  Give Yas focus and stuff like can you hear me again?
• 1:04:07
  An episode that you haven't seen, Yas would have definitely
• 1:04:09
  benefited. Again, where?
• 1:04:11
  Where she's realizing how she feels.
• 1:04:14
  I'm very invested. I know you're not.
• 1:04:16
  Yas would have benefited from a bit of Jackie Tyler treatment of
• 1:04:19
  being in some stories and out of the others of just like when
• 1:04:22
  they all like at least just in that for in the first three
• 1:04:26
  episodes of series 11 it's just running great and then when he
• 1:04:29
  come back to Sheffield he has comes on board or just so
• 1:04:32
  there's a bit more focus at points and that would have
• 1:04:34
  helped suggest the balance of the four.
• 1:04:36
  Of them, I buy that. Actually, a little bit.
• 1:04:37
  I do buy that. Just discovered that the
• 1:04:41
  Cassaving are all over the Earth and there's a map there that
• 1:04:45
  shows them all. And the Silence.
• 1:04:46
  I mean, there's just a lot of aliens all over the Earth all
• 1:04:49
  the time, isn't it always? Know what?
• 1:04:51
  There always is. But did you know that the person
• 1:04:54
  who voices the cassava and also voiced the face of Beau back in
• 1:04:57
  the day? Really.
• 1:04:59
  Yes, because it explains voice a bit, though, because they're
• 1:05:02
  quite deep and sexy. Well, the face of Beau was even
• 1:05:06
  deeper, wasn't they? Sorry my mind my mind went
• 1:05:14
  somewhere that I'm sorry I. Don't.
• 1:05:16
  I don't think I didn't see any genitals on the on the face of
• 1:05:19
  bird. I don't.
• 1:05:21
  Know what? We do not want to think about
• 1:05:23
  John Barrowman's head right now, do we?
• 1:05:28
  Look at Dawar's reactions going to the Tardis?
• 1:05:30
  Fabulous. You do.
• 1:05:31
  Forget how ugly the TARDIS is there.
• 1:05:36
  I feel like the only big mistake is those penises that come
• 1:05:39
  towards. I mean, no, it's not the only
• 1:05:41
  mistake. The console doesn't really have
• 1:05:43
  any like buttons. The crystals.
• 1:05:45
  Come on, you like the toy shop that is the Bat Smith's first
• 1:05:48
  time? Yeah, And there's switches and
• 1:05:49
  buttons everywhere, Typewriters and catch up in mustard and all
• 1:05:53
  that. What?
• 1:05:54
  Can I ask why would the TARDIS? Yeah, because the TARDIS regrows
• 1:05:57
  in the 11th hour. Why would the TARDIS decide?
• 1:06:00
  Because it's all covered in source of mustard and all this
• 1:06:03
  bullshit. To it's all contemporary 20th
• 1:06:07
  century bullshit all over it. Well, that's why.
• 1:06:10
  Irrelevant to the doctor. Well, at that point in time,
• 1:06:13
  it's. Relevant to the audience?
• 1:06:14
  At that point in time it basically lives The gala phrase
• 1:06:17
  destroyed. So why wouldn't it do?
• 1:06:19
  I think it's a very old choice for the TARDIS to make.
• 1:06:22
  Also this. Yeah, because that.
• 1:06:25
  Looks a bit exotic. It looks a little bit alien.
• 1:06:28
  It looks a bit shit. It also does have a custard
• 1:06:31
  cream dispenser in in this version, which is the only nice
• 1:06:35
  thing I love a custard. Cream all of these things now.
• 1:06:40
  Yeah, Zig and all has actually just made himself known with a
• 1:06:43
  little bond drift. Yeah, I do think I could have
• 1:06:47
  done a whole episode of the Spoofing bond a bit more though.
• 1:06:51
  Like, I could have had it all casinos and yeah, you know, and
• 1:06:55
  GX. And.
• 1:06:57
  You know, but I don't have. The money to do a bomb, you
• 1:06:59
  know. What can I let you know?
• 1:07:00
  A little secret. There's a secret in the second
• 1:07:02
  right where you got Yaz and the Master and they're at the at the
• 1:07:05
  crabs table together, right? And she gives him a little look
• 1:07:08
  like she wants to fuck. That was enough for me to be
• 1:07:11
  convinced that Yaz was under the Masters Frall for the entire
• 1:07:14
  season. I had a lot of people.
• 1:07:15
  I was waiting for that drop in the timeless children.
• 1:07:20
  We're all shipping Yasmin the Master.
• 1:07:21
  Before we were shipping Plasmin. Yeah, I'd liked it.
• 1:07:31
  I won't hear a bad word said about that.
• 1:07:34
  It's a horrible, ugly joke. Just on paper anyway.
• 1:07:38
  And then Ava played. It's so eye rolling.
• 1:07:42
  But is it? Is it any?
• 1:07:44
  Is it any different? I know you said this on The
• 1:07:46
  Impossible Astronaut, though, didn't you?
• 1:07:47
  And it's like the Fez and the Custard Jammy Dodgers is exactly
• 1:07:52
  the same. Because you performance.
• 1:07:55
  Preference, isn't it? Yeah.
• 1:07:58
  I want to say, though, how well this is all executed.
• 1:08:01
  We've got that slow motion dice and the stylish camera work, you
• 1:08:05
  know, over everything. The direction of this is
• 1:08:09
  something special. It's it's Yeah, it.
• 1:08:12
  No, it is. It's.
• 1:08:14
  Jamie Magnus Stone and Jamie Magnus Stone does not direct
• 1:08:18
  party. It's a different director.
• 1:08:21
  It's not the only issue of Part 2 though, is it?
• 1:08:24
  The direction of Part 2, the only issue as well.
• 1:08:29
  Hang on, hang on. I'm going to deal with these
• 1:08:31
  complaints people have about Jody Whish because not as we go.
• 1:08:33
  Jody Yeah, no tells. The villain?
• 1:08:36
  Yeah, but tell me now how there's a man like Daniel bought
• 1:08:40
  Skirts of the Doctor here. Well, he's like 3% alien, isn't
• 1:08:44
  it? But it's exactly what people say
• 1:08:46
  about Patrick Trout as well, that he was his inoffensive
• 1:08:48
  Pixie figure. But actually, he was the most
• 1:08:50
  powerful person in the room. Yeah, I just.
• 1:08:53
  I just don't see. And she's sexy as hell as well.
• 1:08:59
  She has men at her feet. Do.
• 1:09:02
  You. Yeah.
• 1:09:03
  Do you like? Look, do you like your doctor,
• 1:09:06
  baby? It's big.
• 1:09:06
  God like. Legends.
• 1:09:09
  I think I do, yeah. But I think I sort of.
• 1:09:11
  I agree with Doctor Who like that I was obsessed as a child
• 1:09:15
  with David Turner and he was the God Doctor base.
• 1:09:19
  So I do think there is a bit of something like that, cuz growing
• 1:09:23
  up as a fan of the classic series the Doctor was never like
• 1:09:26
  that. And so in a weird way, I know
• 1:09:29
  it's classic fans that have a more of an issue with this
• 1:09:31
  Doctor than others, but in a weird way, basically.
• 1:09:36
  It's really hard to want to pinpoint though, because like, I
• 1:09:39
  really, I really like the first four doctors, like quite a lot.
• 1:09:43
  And they're all sort of, especially childhood is very
• 1:09:46
  just like this, you know, a bit behaving all over the place.
• 1:09:50
  But like, I'm not huge on Sylvester McCoy.
• 1:09:53
  Who would be the most God like classic Doctor?
• 1:09:56
  I've turned on McCoy. I love him now.
• 1:09:58
  I hated him. I hated him back in the day.
• 1:10:02
  I've heard his performance very inconsistent.
• 1:10:04
  Oh, he's my #1. You know where all my hatred
• 1:10:07
  goes, Dylan? Sophie Bloody Aldred, isn't it.
• 1:10:11
  Out of Doctors 5-6 and seven, he's my favorite out of M3,
• 1:10:15
  definitely. And I'll just say, right, you
• 1:10:17
  know, I'll say to you there's some fabulous set pieces and
• 1:10:19
  they say, I fucking love this bit with the bikes and the gums
• 1:10:23
  out in the Vineyard, Sorry, just going back to that barn bit as
• 1:10:26
  well. Like all she does is just ask
• 1:10:28
  him loads of questions and doesn't give him any time to.
• 1:10:31
  No, she doesn't, she says. She does threaten me.
• 1:10:33
  Your fine arm. Very difficult to get rid of.
• 1:10:35
  She threatens him as well. She just gives him those
• 1:10:38
  questions. He doesn't have time to respond
• 1:10:39
  and he wouldn't anyway cuz. Just not seeing what you want to
• 1:10:42
  see, Luke. I'm not.
• 1:10:43
  I'm not. It is seeing exactly.
• 1:10:45
  What these shots? Look at these shots.
• 1:10:49
  The one issue I have with this scene these chases on the
• 1:10:53
  motorbikes and this is my. Sort of telly brain rather than
• 1:10:57
  actual Doctor Who fan brain is that I know they're not riding
• 1:11:01
  those motorbikes that will. The angles they get are exactly
• 1:11:03
  the angles you do when you strapped to the back of a low
• 1:11:05
  loader on a on a bike. It's like so I just don't buy
• 1:11:09
  that any of them are. And there are when you if you
• 1:11:13
  look at the angles, and this is the same in all shows, you'll
• 1:11:16
  notice they're just a bit too high up because they are two
• 1:11:19
  feet off the ground when they're on those bikes, so that nothing
• 1:11:23
  in a car. Isn't being properly driven like
• 1:11:26
  a close up in a car on a bike never cuts with the with the
• 1:11:29
  footage of the car moving but that is across the board in
• 1:11:32
  everything you. I like the idea of the motorbike
• 1:11:34
  chase, but I just think it's it's bicker engine, just not
• 1:11:37
  particularly films grace. Are you mad by sweeping shots?
• 1:11:40
  No, it's not. Yeah.
• 1:11:42
  That's great. What?
• 1:11:43
  Does it take to please you? Jody doesn't look particularly
• 1:11:47
  comfortable doing it either. I want to say as well from this
• 1:11:50
  point on to the end of the episode is what this is one of
• 1:11:53
  my favorite sequences in the whole New Who I think.
• 1:11:57
  I think it's brilliantly written, I think it's perfectly
• 1:12:00
  played and I think it's excellently directed.
• 1:12:03
  I completely agree. Now I want to go back to you
• 1:12:06
  what what you were saying of Jody not looking comfortable
• 1:12:09
  with doing the motorbike chase. I don't think a lot of the
• 1:12:11
  classic doctors look good in those situations.
• 1:12:13
  I don't think Matt does. I think it's a it's the thing
• 1:12:15
  that they do on purpose of like it's it's the doctors, an
• 1:12:19
  uncomfortable hero and not good at the action.
• 1:12:21
  It just happens to them. I think some actors are better
• 1:12:24
  at making that land than. We is.
• 1:12:29
  Yeah, but we just spend the whole episode just.
• 1:12:32
  Running around for no reason. And so we love it.
• 1:12:35
  I do have one complaint. Oh God, I can't believe I'm
• 1:12:37
  going to say something bad. Is the whole thing about him
• 1:12:39
  being the champion sprinter. I think that's a lazy way of
• 1:12:42
  revealing who he is. Yeah, yeah, I don't realize
• 1:12:45
  that. But that's the whole master
• 1:12:47
  reveal. So you're saying it's the best
• 1:12:49
  master reveal, that is? That's the whole in performance.
• 1:12:54
  The fact that it happens on the back of a brilliant cliffhanger
• 1:12:57
  full of jeopardy and excitement, yeah, it's a great reveal.
• 1:13:01
  I'd rather that than Missy just going.
• 1:13:04
  Or should I say master? Is it?
• 1:13:06
  Yeah. But is it any better than oh, so
• 1:13:08
  and so. That's Latin for master, you
• 1:13:11
  know? No.
• 1:13:14
  The conceit of the man? No.
• 1:13:18
  But we shouldn't be aiming to do what the Classic Series was
• 1:13:21
  doing. I'm just saying.
• 1:13:24
  Never thought they would best the sequence on the aeroplane in
• 1:13:29
  these bells of Saint John, but I love this bit.
• 1:13:33
  I've seen some planes and I love the fact that bomb goes off and
• 1:13:36
  that they're free falling and the camera pulls away from them
• 1:13:39
  and they're literally diving towards the earth.
• 1:13:42
  In terms of Jeopardy, I don't think it's been bested.
• 1:13:46
  Yeah, it's it's definitely better when Bells of Saint John.
• 1:13:50
  This is a proper, iconic cliffhanger moment I'd like.
• 1:13:54
  It's iconic for an era like this, the whole Wicked Witch of
• 1:13:58
  the West thing. Fantastic.
• 1:14:00
  And he's just shouting and holding onto the door and the
• 1:14:03
  doctors in the middle of now I'll give you 1 criticism.
• 1:14:07
  It would be better had the first time we've seen that alien like
• 1:14:11
  alternative universe been when Jody was transported there.
• 1:14:14
  Because Yaz gets out of it so easily that we know the doctors
• 1:14:17
  going to be out of it. Which again, if the Yaz had
• 1:14:19
  still been in it at this point, you could have a bit of a jewel.
• 1:14:23
  But I love the fact that he pulls the fellow out of his
• 1:14:26
  pocket. Yeah, we've gone back to tissue
• 1:14:28
  compression. We're back in the Legopolis days
• 1:14:30
  now. I also love the just the the
• 1:14:33
  sheer joy on his face when he's like, I've tricked you for so
• 1:14:36
  long, you know, it's it. And the moment he's cool and he
• 1:14:39
  sort of goes and then he's like he just, he does become a
• 1:14:43
  different character and it's fantastic.
• 1:14:44
  I love the fact that toasting cold goes.
• 1:14:46
  Master. As if that's a bit embarrassing,
• 1:14:49
  you know, I like that the Evil Dan music is playing in the
• 1:14:53
  background. Oh, actually, you.
• 1:14:55
  Thank you very much, Luke. This is one of my favorite
• 1:14:58
  musical pieces as well. I play this all the time.
• 1:15:01
  I really like it, but I think it's because of Doctor Who poop
• 1:15:05
  and not because of watching the worst career.
• 1:15:07
  Isn't it that starts slow and sort of menacing and then builds
• 1:15:13
  an excitement? It's great.
• 1:15:16
  Go and listen to it in isolation, No.
• 1:15:21
  Put it on your sexy playlist. It's a real see I like.
• 1:15:25
  He says about bit, bit, Wicked Witch of the West.
• 1:15:28
  Don't say he can't deliver a great line, Chip.
• 1:15:30
  That's a brilliant line. I I like the master, adds
• 1:15:33
  energy. And it's an interesting flip of
• 1:15:36
  the story. I like that side of it.
• 1:15:38
  I don't. I hate the Psycho master by this
• 1:15:41
  point and and just not define it as his own because I can't just
• 1:15:44
  help but look at this and just think.
• 1:15:46
  John Sims already done it and I felt like off to this point
• 1:15:49
  every master has put their own little spin on the roll.
• 1:15:53
  Where is this? It does have elements of SIM,
• 1:15:57
  but I do think he's different enough not not to be a straight
• 1:16:00
  car, but weirdly I've got a big issue in he's just being really,
• 1:16:04
  really so. Oh, I quite like how Barton does
• 1:16:06
  a Lutton from Planet the Spiders there.
• 1:16:09
  He's just got so Speaking of pert wheel.
• 1:16:11
  On the boat concentrates, it just disappears.
• 1:16:16
  My issue is the the wild master is he's so sexy I just want to
• 1:16:20
  lick his ass. So every time he's on, it's a
• 1:16:23
  problem. It's a problem.
• 1:16:26
  But you know what? That's why they call him O.
• 1:16:28
  I prefer. What did you say?
• 1:16:33
  That's why they call him O. I call him O any day.
• 1:16:39
  I prefer cliffhangers that are hinges in the narrative that
• 1:16:42
  moments of jeopardy because Doctor has done so many moments.
• 1:16:44
  But yeah, I feel like. I don't see it.
• 1:16:46
  He doesn't. Don't the best cliffhangers are
• 1:16:48
  both? Yeah, but I'm sorry.
• 1:16:49
  I was going to say that it annoys me that he's being psycho
• 1:16:52
  and it's like John SIM, but weirdly in Power of the Doctor
• 1:16:55
  when he's even more psycho than anything.
• 1:16:58
  I really like him that I think he's really good in Power of the
• 1:17:01
  Doctor. The moment here where he turns
• 1:17:03
  around and they're behind him and the plane and he's like an
• 1:17:07
  instrument of chaos and he's screaming his head off, I just
• 1:17:11
  think he looks great. Yeah.
• 1:17:14
  Me too. I can play again it all.
• 1:17:16
  It all comes down to not being able to buy into it.
• 1:17:18
  I just sort of say like, I don't, I just don't believe it's
• 1:17:21
  something about the style of the whole episode.
• 1:17:25
  Well, the whole era where I'm just not invested.
• 1:17:28
  So I don't believe that the three characters are
• 1:17:30
  particularly that real, that the plane is real, that they're
• 1:17:33
  going to fall to the death. So it just doesn't really have
• 1:17:35
  any sort of effect for me whatsoever.
• 1:17:37
  Are you worried you might have grown out of Doctor Who?
• 1:17:39
  And that's the case? He fitted the four episodes like
• 1:17:44
  after Fears of the June and not watch it again.
• 1:17:48
  That's what I did after I watched Nightmare and Silver.
• 1:17:50
  This is the end of me and Doctor Who.
• 1:17:53
  We've got one and then you got charting running on California
• 1:17:56
  Beach next week. Don't even start with me.
• 1:18:00
  I was going to say this earlier, but I actually don't think
• 1:18:03
  Doctor Who's done with the time as children.
• 1:18:05
  I I. No, I don't either.
• 1:18:07
  I think it will rear its head again in the Russell T Davis
• 1:18:10
  era. From what I understand, he was
• 1:18:14
  less than impressed with the Chipnaw era.
• 1:18:16
  But I think Davis is magnanimous enough that if he's going to
• 1:18:20
  celebrate Doctor Who, he's going to celebrate all of Doctor Who.
• 1:18:24
  It depends what he wants to do with it.
• 1:18:26
  Like if it, I think it can even just ignore it.
• 1:18:31
  I mean, we never go back to it again or he really dived into
• 1:18:34
  it. I don't particularly mind which
• 1:18:35
  one he does. My biggest issue with the time
• 1:18:38
  of child as a by the end of the series and by the end of the
• 1:18:42
  year is that it's a massive cannon grenade chucked in there
• 1:18:46
  that is really for absolutely nothing whatsoever.
• 1:18:50
  So. Is the John Herb author in The
• 1:18:52
  Day of the Dockside. It's exactly the same.
• 1:18:54
  It's and it's not the. Why?
• 1:18:57
  It's. It's a plot device that's thrown
• 1:18:59
  in because. That he didn't want McGann and
• 1:19:02
  Eccleston wouldn't do it. But it's Stephen.
• 1:19:05
  He manages to justify it and make it literally crucial today
• 1:19:10
  of the I don't. Because he's he's.
• 1:19:11
  He doesn't. He's not really any different to
• 1:19:13
  any of the other Doctors. And they cast John.
• 1:19:17
  What's John Hurt? I was about to say John SIM, but
• 1:19:18
  it's not. They cast John Hurt, who is the
• 1:19:22
  sort of person that Doctor Who fans think is a fantastic actor
• 1:19:26
  because he did television back in the Sixties, 70s and 80s that
• 1:19:28
  they love. But.
• 1:19:30
  It's not as as little as I know about the Ruth Doctor.
• 1:19:34
  I do. I still at least think it's a
• 1:19:36
  smarter move than than. I have real problems with the
• 1:19:39
  War Doctor. I think it's just such a lazy
• 1:19:41
  thing. To do as well is to bring in
• 1:19:43
  John Herr, have him play a classic Doctor because that's
• 1:19:46
  what he's doing, and then make all those jibes classic versus
• 1:19:50
  new in Day of the Doctor. Those are such lazy jokes.
• 1:19:53
  It was the 50th anniversary. It's not lazy jokes at all,
• 1:19:55
  because they're working on what they're working as a joke for
• 1:19:59
  someone who's never watched Doctor Who for, and there's a
• 1:20:01
  lot of jokes in there that are working for people that have
• 1:20:03
  watched every single episode. I didn't laugh.
• 1:20:07
  I'm afraid. I think a lot of the.
• 1:20:09
  You've got a crap sense of humor, I'm afraid.
• 1:20:12
  I actually think a lot of the jokes in Day of the Doctor send
• 1:20:16
  the show up in a way that I think, and obviously it wasn't.
• 1:20:19
  It was a huge, successful broadcast, but I just think it
• 1:20:23
  it. Folks from at the format of
• 1:20:25
  Doctor Who A little bit too much.
• 1:20:27
  That's it. It makes it makes people go, Oh
• 1:20:30
  yeah, Doctor Who is a bit shit actually, isn't it?
• 1:20:33
  You know, the worst thing that Day of the Doctor did, I can't
• 1:20:35
  believe we're talking about this now, is how much it belittled
• 1:20:38
  the Time War and made it such a fucking boring Star Wars esque.
• 1:20:44
  Time Wars versus Dalek shooting around Gallifrey after all those
• 1:20:48
  enticing 1 liners from Russell T Davies and then inspired shit
• 1:20:54
  ton of well gotten us big Finnish stories.
• 1:20:57
  Yeah, I mean it is the line there that it's like the last
• 1:21:01
  day of the war and the resources that like expired from both
• 1:21:04
  sides, but. It can't be blamed for what Big
• 1:21:08
  Finish went on today. I was.
• 1:21:11
  I was just expecting more somehow.
• 1:21:14
  It but that that whole thing of the Dalek and Dalek being the
• 1:21:17
  last Dalek is so sort of belittled.
• 1:21:19
  It belittles the Echostone error I think in terms of the the
• 1:21:23
  struggle that that doctor went through a post time war and then
• 1:21:27
  the fact that the Time War was never really over.
• 1:21:30
  I can totally understand why someone would think that like.
• 1:21:33
  That someone's me. No, they're right.
• 1:21:36
  I I I can't because it it was definitely something at the time
• 1:21:40
  that sat like the yeah it wasn't it took a while to swallow that
• 1:21:46
  like during that whole time of Eccleston and said and it is
• 1:21:50
  still out there. And I actually thought, I
• 1:21:52
  thought they the doctor when they were going to reverse the
• 1:21:55
  button and everything, they were just going to wipe out that
• 1:21:58
  timeline of 9/10/11. And then we'd start with Capaldi
• 1:22:02
  as the new 9th Doctor. So I get now that's a bit
• 1:22:05
  confusing for an audience now, but like, that could have been
• 1:22:10
  quite cool. And that was just an abandoned
• 1:22:13
  timeline of what would have happened.
• 1:22:16
  I don't know how. I don't know how we're here.
• 1:22:20
  Shit, isn't it? You know what?
• 1:22:22
  It's quite cool is that you know there are Doctor Who fans that
• 1:22:25
  love the Christian New era and hate it.
• 1:22:27
  There are people that love and hate the Moffett era, and
• 1:22:31
  they'll see Dearer, and they're all welcome here on a hands
• 1:22:34
  through a blood pen knife like we are right now if we go and
• 1:22:37
  watch episode 2. Let's do that.
• 1:22:39
  Yeah, sounds like. Oh, with reals.
• 1:22:40
  We all still get on right? Oh yeah, yeah, terribly.
• 1:22:43
  I want to lick your assholes as well.
• 1:22:46
  Oh.