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Legally Brunette: The FLDS “Prophet” - Samuel Bateman · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Illegally Brunette. I'll
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: be your host today, Emily Simpson with Shane Okay, first
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: of all, before we get into the bulk of what
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about today, we do have an
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: update on a case we talked about previously. So if
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: you have not listened to this episode, it is the
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Anna Koepner case, which was the I'm sure you remember
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: this case.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: It was the young girl that was.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Found on the cruise.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: On the cruise ship, so Anna Kaepner was eighteen and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: she was found dead under her bed in the cabin
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: she shared with her stepbrother during a November twenty twenty
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: five cruise. The death was later ruled a homicide by
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: mechanical asphyxiation. This was what we learned afterwards. Yeah, so
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: the FBI has been investigating and th that they don't
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: release the name because.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're trying him as an adult, but they
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: don't want to. They're like, we're going to treat you
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: like an adult, but sometimes we're going to treat you
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: like a minor.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is true.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: That is contradictory that they won't release names because he's
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: a minor, but they're going to try him as an adult.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: This is the sixteen year old step brother of Anna,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: and he was initially arrested in early federal eighteen. She
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: was eighteen, he's sixteen, and they were sharing a room
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: a cabin together on a cruise ship and then she
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: was found dead underneath the bed by housekeeping. He was
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: charged in juvenile court before prosecutors saw adult charges. This
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: was back in February of twenty twenty six, only a
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: couple of months ago. You know, I remember finding his
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: name originally, I think it was posted somewhere, but now
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what Teh stands for. But he has
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: been indicted as an adult by a federal grand jury
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: on first degree murder and aggravated sexual abuse charges in
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: connection with her death aboard a Carnival Horizon cruise ship
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: which was sailing in November of twenty twenty five. Prosecutors
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: alleged he's sexually assaulted and then intentionally killed her. I
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: would assume this is what I picked first of all,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: as parents, I don't know how I have stub children.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: But obviously you have two daughters, but they're they're female.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: But I don't know if I would combine step siblings
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: in a cabin when they're teenagers, you.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Mean mixing genders.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, when they're step siblings and she's eighteen he's sixteen.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: I no, No, there has to be a history there though.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Can't just be like there's no signs whatsoever, and then
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: aboard this cruise ship, all of a sudden, this guy
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: comes on to her and wants and kills her. I mean,
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: there's nothing that leads up to them.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: No, there is, because we talked about it in a
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: previous episode. There were things where she had said she
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: felt uncomfortable with him.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: So in that case, I wouldn't mix them.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: That's the point. That's my point.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: My point is, I don't know if I would mix
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: the period because you're talking about I mean, you're talking
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: about a sixteen year old boy and an eighteen year
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: old girl sharing a cabin together on a cruise ship.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: It's very tiny and small. They have to share a bathroom,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: she has to get ready in front of him, or
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's just weird to me.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: But the fact that there was also some indication that
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: he was obsessed with her and had had feelings for
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: her that we talked about this in a previous episode,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: and then they were you know, the parents were okay
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: with them sharing. My takeaway, because we don't know details,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: would be that he made some type of advancement or
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: tried to do something that she rejected him, he became angry,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: maybe there was a struggle. He ended up strangling her
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: and then hid the body underneath the bed.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: You put all that together yourself, you know, I'm brilliant
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I feel like that's probably what happened. So
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: his arraignment is scheduled for April twenty second and twenty
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: twenty six in federal court in Miami, where the indictment
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: will be read and he can enter a plea. Th
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: has invoked his right to remain silent, and a court
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: motion currently limits law enforcement from questioning him further about
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: the case. Although he is charged as an adult, he
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: was previously released under juvenile supervision after his February arrest
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: and was not held in detention. Prosecutors are now asking
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: a judge to revoke that release and have him taken
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: into custody pending trial because the case has been transferred
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: into adult court.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: So he was released under whatever benefits there are for
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: minors being charged with the crime, and now that it's
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: an adult, he's being tried as an adult. Yeah, they
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: want to go backwards and say, Okay, he shouldn't have
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: that benefit of being released to his parents exactly.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: So we'll see what will happen with that, and if
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: he's convicted thh faces a possible life sentence. Okay, we're
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: going to move on in this case that we're going
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: to talk about for the bulk of this episode. So interesting,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: fascinating all the things.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: And also thank.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: You guys because I got so many dms where you
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: were all asking that we talk about it and recommending it.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: So it's a new Netflix series. It's four episodes. It's
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: called Trust Me the False Prophet, and it's new to Netflix.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: It's a documentary that follows Christine Catas. She's a former
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Mormon who infiltrates a fundamentalist community to expose Sam Bateman,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: who is a self proclaimed prophet who forms a breakaway
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: group from the FLDS. I think, first of all, you
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: have to.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Start with Warren Jeffs.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: This is this is an offshoot of that, and there's
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: a documentary on Netflix.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: I forget exactly what Sweet.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: Pray Love Love a prequel.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: That would be the prequel. Yes, this has been the
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: secret still yeah, and he's still in prison.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Is he still receiving inspiration?
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he is. And so this guy Bateman gains
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: power and manipulates followers into giving him their wives and daughters,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: including miners, under the guise of religious authority. Despite early
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: resistance from local law law enforcement, Christine secretly gathers evidence
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: of abuse, eventually helping the FBI build a case against
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Sam with the help of insiders like Julia Johnson. We'll
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: get more into Julia later. I think Julia is really
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: the hero in this entire story. The investigation leads to
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: a raid, arrest, and ultimately Bateman's conviction, though the case
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: reveals the lasting psychological control he maintained over many of
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: his followers. So really, like we were talking about, it
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: starts with Warren Jeffs. This FLDS community was left without leadership,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: and I think that they didn't really know what to do.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: They were still and I know he was still controlling
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of Actually, this seat was open.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: It was a matter of some guy, some other creep
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: to think I want that chair exactly. And so Ali,
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: I'm guessing you're going to tell me. But all you
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: got to do is basically speak up and start manipulating
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: people and declare as being the next person in charge.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Right, And you know, I do know that they followed
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Warren Jeffs for a long time because he was still
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: giving I don't know what you want to call it,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: off orders or he was still manipulating that community from
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: within prison. But this guy Sam Bateman, who when people
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: describe him, he's not even like that savvy or smart
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: or like any kind of standout.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Like politics, you don't have to be you just have
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: to be the loud one, right.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: So Christine Catas was previously a practicing Mormon. When she
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: was young, she met a man who convinced her that
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: he was a modern day prophet, and she married him.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: After leaving that situation, she felt lost herself, so she
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: spent the next decade studying cults and psychology. Her goal
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: became helping communities affected by cult influence, especially the FLDS.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: So she's interesting. This is what happens is to give
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: a little background, she was previously a Mormon, she was
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: married to some man that considered himself a prophet, and
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: she shows emails in this documentary of communications from her
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: husband been where he's controlling her and using religion as
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: a control and all those types of things. She finally
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: gets away from him, but then she wants to study
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: why she was maybe so easily manipulated.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: You know, how long she was with them or anything,
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: or did they have kids together.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think they had children together. Well, I don't
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: know she does have a daughter, because her daughter's in
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: the documentary, but I don't know if that was his child.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: After the war, in Jeff's situation, she decides that she
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: wants to go live within that specific community and help
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: those people.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: So well, she had been on one side of it, right,
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: so she thought, yeah, there's something going on here, and
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: there's clearly a power, you know, of these people over
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: the victims.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: And I think her original intent in going and living
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: there with them is nothing more than to actually to
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: help and to study and to learn and to be
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: She says something really interesting, she says, and I'm not
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: sure where in the documentary, but I really took this away.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: She said that she never went with the intent of
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: judging or telling them that they were wrong in their
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: thoughts or their religious.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: It sounds like she just wanted a bird's eye view
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: and be a fly on the wall of what's going on.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: She wanted to She infiltrates and lives among them.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: For what purpose to study them?
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Right? Maybe not really to study. I think she really
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: feels like she can go and help. I think she
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: wants to just be.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Kind of like like go in and then rat them
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: out and help, or go in and try to give
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: the women like more power and ability and a voice.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I think in the beginning because her husband, so
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: her husband's name is Tolga, He's Turkish, and he moves
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: there with her. So they move from Las Vegas to
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Colorado City, Arizona. This is where this FLDS community is.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Tolga is a music producer and a photographer who is
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: documenting their move and the FLDS community around them. So
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: their goal is to create their own documentary about this group.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: But the members are very weary of Christina and Tolga
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: at first, because I mean these are outsiders that, yeah,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: live within this very structured, you know community where all
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the women dress with the dresses and.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: The hair, criminal enterprise. And then someone's like, hey, can
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: we come in and document this and live with you.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: So of course he's gonna have reservations, right.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: So at that time, the FLDFS previous prophet, Warren Jeffs,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: is in prison, but he still controls a lot of
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: the community. He instructs during this time period that she's there,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: he instructs followers to stop marrying and having children, despite
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: traditional expectations of having one child every year. You know,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: and I don't really understand that other than some people
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: explained it in this documentary that he issues this order
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: that there's.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: No more marriage.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: And I think he said no more sex period, not
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: just have children. But a lot of when I was
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: watching it, the interpretation was that he was in prison,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: and so he just didn't want anyone to like enjoy life.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: So it's like, if I'm going to be in prison,
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: it's like if we go to prison, then we tell
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: the kids, no more spending money, right, no more get
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: out of the.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: House, no more candy and watching movies and write. So
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: many FLDS members are forced out of their home due.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: To state oratorium on sex.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in marriage, and you know, he's like, I'm in prison.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: So first first he probably doesn't he kind of manipulate
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: everyone talking about some higher level of sex and all
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: this crazy stuff and polygamy, like they're a higher order
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: and now it's like.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: No sex for you.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, stop right. So Christina and her husband Tolga, actually
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: they end up they do. They actually end up gaining
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: the trust of this community and they become beloved members
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: of the community as they fight to protect FLDS members.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: So a lot of them are getting evicted. I'm not
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: sure why they're getting evicted. I don't know. I mean,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: I guess it has to do with probably not paying
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: rent or whatever.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: Usually that's the case.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: No, I know, but I don't know why a high
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: number of FLDS members. I'm not sure exactly what the
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: background is what's going on in the community, but they
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: they Christina helps some of the women start their own
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: business because they sell home good like things that they've made.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: It's so crafty, yeah.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: And so she helps them.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I forget what it was called, but it was like
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: some kind of little cottage that was in within this
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: community where I think they were selling bake goods and
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: you know, things that they made, homemade things, And so
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: she helps them kind of be more self sufficient and
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: learn how to operate a business.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: And things like that. So I truly believe that.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: Her trying to strengthen the women and help them probably
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: have more confidence, right.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And and they're documenting everything because he does. Her husband,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Tolga does have a camera and he's documenting everything. So
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: that's what's so interesting about this documentary is that everything
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: is caught on video. But their original intent and being
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: there isn't to document Sam Bateman and the sexual exploitation
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: that's going on. It's to document the community and help them.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: But it just so happens that it shifts into Yeah, she.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Wasn't going in there to the criminality of anything, right.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: She was probably going in there trying to just see
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: if she can improve the structure or write the.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Morale and not to judge, which I think is very
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: important because that's why they gain her trust, or she
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: gains their trust, because she never says things like why
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: do you believe this? So she's there to protect the
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: FLDS members by helping them raise money, garner supplies, and
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: even opening a local store for the women to sell
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: homemade items. This is when so Christine meets Sam Bateman
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: after he asks for help following an eviction. So many
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: of the FLDS members did not have respect for Sam Bateman.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: He wasn't wealthy, and he wasn't a prominent member in
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the church. So that was my point when I was
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: talking about how he rises to this level of profit,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: is that he wasn't a standout, you know what I mean.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I feel like within the community there's certain men or
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: women that take on leadership roles that people respect and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: probably go to for counseling or leadership, and he was
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: not one of those people. No, they really I forget
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: what they call him, but I mean she even said
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: something like a schmuck or something, you know what I mean, Like,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: he wasn't wealthy, he wasn't a leader, He wasn't in
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: a leadership type of position.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: He wasn't someone That's.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: Why did people invest in him then or follow his lead?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: That is the biggest question, but we will get to that.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I don't really think there's an explanation for that.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Well, they lost their leader, right and so that space
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: was open. And if these people are if this community
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: is groomed to follow one person, like not just like
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: follow like this person gives guidance like follow like he
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: is the law, you must do as he says, and
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: then that space is gone. Now they're looking for some
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: type of leader. You know.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you a question.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: Oh, I don't want more than one wife.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: No, that wasn't my question. But that's that's good to know.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Why don't you make a distinction between FLDS and LDS,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: because here's where I think the problem lies and the
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: mass when you talk about the public, when you say
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Mormon or LDS, I think people, if they don't know
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: much about the religion, their mind goes to what they
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: see on the TV or news or documentaries, and it's
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: always the FLDS because that's.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: A very well, that's more of a story to follow.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Because that's salacious, right, that's more of a that's the story,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: that's Warren Jeff's, that's the that's the polygamy, that's the
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: living on the compounds. That's the women that wear all
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: the dresses that look the same and don't wear makeup
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: and don't.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Have the fancy has.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they're fancy, but if that's the
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: way you want to just subjective, right, But I feel
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: like if someone doesn't have much information about the LDS,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: combine the two, right, Like if I say to someone
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: that doesn't know me very well, and I say, oh,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: my husband is Mormon, and they don't know much about
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: the religion. I think they think compound dresses, strange, polygamy,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: all the things.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: So get a bit of a reaction. I get a
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: reaction and I tell people my wife's on the show Housewise.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah. They usually they casually take a step
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: or two back what they do.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I can understand that. So Sam disappears from town for
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: a while, and then when he comes back, he returns
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: and he brings back a new, much younger wife. This
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: goes directly against Warren Jeff's demands that he issued earlier
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: that said no getting married, no sex, no children. Then
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Sam arrives. I don't know what the timeframe in this exactly.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: It didn't really explain in the documentary. I was kind
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: of confused because they were interviewing one of the FLDS
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: women about Sam, and she basically tells a story about
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: how he shows up outside this I believe it was
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: this cottage place where they sell all these home goods
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: and things, and he arrives with like a flatbed trailer
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: with twenty women on it, like he just like drives
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: into town. I don't know, Like I there wasn't enough background.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I was like, I don't understand. What did I just miss?
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: This man like marries one girl and then I believe
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: he marries like the sister later. But then he shows
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: up with like a flatbed trailer and parks it and
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: it has like twenty women on it and they're all
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: singing and there's minor children on there, and they're all
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: with him. So the FLDS can where did they come from?
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know, that's my question. I don't I don't know.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: But he shows up back in town and he has
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: a and it's on and told us the husband videos.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's video recorded.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: This is just is just you have someone that has
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: no conscious, no regard for decency of any kind, so
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: they will manipulate left and right, and they'll say whatever
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: it is and get these people to follow them. And
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: that's it, you know what I mean. It's like you
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: can get anyone to do anything as long as you
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: have no conscience and you don't care and you have
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: no the remorse and you just say whatever needs to
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: be said. Those people are scary.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the FLDS community largely rejects him. But Christine,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: this is the woman, right, She's the woman and told
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: us her husband maintain contact. She maintains a good relationship
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: with him because she's realizing she wants to gain information. Yeah,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, where did these minor girls come from?
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I believe it's like twenty women, and I would say
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: up to half of them are are miners and look
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: like miners, like they're around nine ten years of age.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Even on this show, they.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Don't blur them out because now we have the technology,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: they digitally alter their face.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Which is kind of crazy.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Way, is it just so the viewer doesn't have to
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: see a blurry fat Well, that's dumb. Yeah, they should
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: blur it because I think blurring sends a signal. Yeah,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: these are miners, right, and it's inappropriate and we shouldn't
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: be exploiting them, right.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: So I didn't like how they didn't blur them anymore.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: They just digitally altered their face into like something else
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: instead of blurring them.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: The day comes where it's digitally altered and accidently looks
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: like someone or something I don't know. I like, they
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: forget to click on one face and they didn't alter
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: that one but they don't know the difference because they
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: all have faces.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I know, I thought it was kind of odd.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Virtual one day we could we might be able to
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: wear glasses, and then you see things as you wish
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: they are so like you could wear glasses. And then
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: our kitchen is renovated.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you don't have to pay for it.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: Right, And I said, we're getting glasses, and I could
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: program it so it looks like you got a face left, yes,
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: or whatever else. It is a beauty tree, but you
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: want and you don't have to get a beauty any
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: beauty tree.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I look like Carmen Electro when you.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: You don't have to get your hair done. You don't,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: you don't have to do anything.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's scary.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Though, and then you will look as yeah, no, no,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: it's better.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Why you would like to live in some digital world
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: where you just wake up every morning, you put glasses on,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: and then it just puts your big gull up in
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: front of you.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Well, well i'd have to you don't really taste.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: No, I understand, but okay, so you walk out the door,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I look like Carmen Electra.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Where are the kids?
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: They're gone, they're in.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: College, they're smiling and happy.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, happy to see you.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: They have their glasses and there's.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: No dogs in the house.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't see dog everywhere.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What's parked in the driveway when you walk out? Well, eat,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: not a flatbed with twenty women in it?
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, But do you see what I'm saying.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, I know you're saying that we're just going to
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: get to the point where we put glasses on in
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: our whole world. In a way, it'll be like the matrix. Yeah,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: all right, let's get back to this. So Christine is
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: invited to a dinner at Sam Bateman's home and the
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: wives perform for her and Tolga. There are growing rumors.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: This is what Christine is hearing. There's growing rumors that
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Sam is marrying underage girls. So Christine reaches out to
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: local law enforcement and contacts the police and others I
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: believe had previously reported concerns as well. Well. However, the
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: local law enforcement cannot act because there is a lack
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: of concrete evidence.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: At this point.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: All they're hearing is rumors, right that he's allegedly married
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: to these younger girls either.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Isn't that enough of a like you know what.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I think it's very hard for the police even to
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: infiltrate the FLDS community.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: They're clearly.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Towards the end of the document, a large properties.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, and they all protect each other. They all know
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: to be silent and they don't talk.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: What I imagine once police start to drive up or
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: authorities come, they alert each other. They have procedures in place,
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: right because if you call right now, you call school
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: and you say there's a bomb under classroom four in
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: a desk, they're gonna be like, well, we don't have enough.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: That's not enough for us to do anything. No, they're
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: gonna go search, they're going to clear it out, because
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: that's a big deal. So this should have been a
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: big enough deal that they do something matter, at least
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: start to look into it. But you're right, I think
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: they know that it's an uphill battle.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And they can't they can't get a search warrant
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: based upon someone calling and saying I think in some
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: rumors that he's married to underage girl.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: So it might have been more of a go back
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: and get us more so we can really crack down
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: those people.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: So Christine's starts to learn that Sam is leading a
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: breakaway sect called the Samulites, and he recruits key male followers.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: This is the part where I get confused because there
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: are three other men that are involved in this. It's
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Torrance Bistline, lidel Bisline, they're brothers, and then Moroni Johnson.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: He convinces them I guess that. So he claims that
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Warren Jeffs died in prison and that now Warren Jeffs
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: is communicating with him from the beyond, and that now
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: he is the prophet who's issuing the order.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: That means these people don't have access to the internet.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Well, no, they're not allowed to use the internet.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Right, because all it takes is one person to think,
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: oh my goodness, even if it's genuine, oh my goodness,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: he died, I want to see with the details.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Well no, they also convinced the community that even if
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: they did have access to the Internet and they could
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: look up, the media is lying to them. So he
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: backs it up with saying, if the media is lying
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: to you, Warren Jeffs is dead. So if you see,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: if you see news, don't believe right. So not only
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: are they not allowed to use the Internet, but then
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: he also convinces them that if they do see something.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: It seems like a lot of work. It seems like
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: it'd be easier to get someone to like you for
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: who you are. I don't know, but then you don't
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: know that that's easy.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: But then you don't get twenty wives. So there's these
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: three key men that are also involved in all of this.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: They start to follow Sam as the new prophet. And
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I believe Moroni had been going against Warren Jeffs and
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: he had been taking new wives and having kids and
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: all the things that he wasn't supposed to do, which
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: meant he felt like he was going to go to hell.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: So then I believe that if Sam comes along and
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: there's a new prophet and can offer him some type
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: of salvation, then that's why he starts to follow him.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I guess Morone I then allows Sam to you know, these.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: People could really like lead like big companies well by
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: inspiring although and.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: We'll get to that, Okay, okay, So Marone allows Marona
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: is very important in this whole thing.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: I think it's I almost, I.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Hate to say, feel sorry for him, but he's easily manipulated,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: and I don't I don't understand why, but he is.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: But Moron I allows Sam to marry all of his
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: daughters after accepting him as profit.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I believe he gives four daughters away to Sam.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: No kidding. Can you imagine giving all.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Your and then the Bisline men that we were just
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: talking about, the two brothers give their wives and daughters
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: to Sam as well.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: My goodness, I know that, like as if do they
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: feel it was a sacrifice, like I'm giving up my
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: marriage for a higher good?
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I don't. I really don't understand that part of it.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: I don't or like good riddance. It's like my wife
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: I need Emily Simpson, like good luck, sir. It's taken
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: a decade and a half to try to get through
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: the day with her.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: A decade and a half. Why did't you say seventeen years?
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: That's how long we've been.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: It was about two years ago. I learned how.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see, okay, how to get through the day.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: I'm going to get to bed safely, all right.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: So Torrence Bysline, this is the interesting part. This You're
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: gonna love this part. Torren's Bistline had a successful green
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: energy company which Liddel and Moron I both worked for,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: very successful. He gives money to Sam from his company
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: to buy houses for all for his expanding family, right,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: because he's got twenty wives now yeah, and these wives
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: are starting to have kids, so there's kids coming back, right, snowballing, right,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: And he buys Sam Bentley's and range Rovers and stay
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: drives around and a Bentley and flaunts their material items
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: to the people in town that don't believe in Sam,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: so that he can, like I don't know, try to
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: hype them up into believing that he's the prophet. He
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: drives around and like the.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: Real station, like see my fancy car, I sell fancy home.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: I guess I'm successful.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: But in what world? This is what I don't understand.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: He convinces these men, grown adult men, one of which
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: owns a very successful company. So the man has to
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: be intelligent and savvy and very business oriented. He convinces
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: him to turn over his wives and children, and then
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: he convinces him to buy him Bentley's and range Rovers.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: But they also live in like the homes they live
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: in are like dilapidated. You know.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: That was my next thing was he's driving around these
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Bentley's and these homes are probably falling apart and the
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: conditions that they're living in aren't of the Bentley status.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: No, which cracks me up that I'm watching this because
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Christine and her husband are documenting all of this, and
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: they're going to dinner at their home and they're going
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: over to their home and meeting Sam and the wives.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: And the house is a mess. It's small, it's falling apart.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: It's messy. There's it's not well kept or nice or anything.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: It's just kind of cluttered and there's crap everywhere, and
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: there's kids and it's falling apart.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, he's not cleaning up the apartments.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: No, and then he and then he like drives around
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: in a Bentley. It's it's crazy to me. Also, I
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: just have to comment on this. They don't go into it.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: He wears he wears a white motorcycle jacket. I you
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: know it's a motorcycle jacket because it's it's you know,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: it has like the zippers and the uh, the attachments.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: It's a motorcycle jacket, but it's white, and he wears
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: it in like every scene that they've filmed.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: He has this white.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Motorcycle jacket on like he thinks he's very cool.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: So I shouldn't be getting a white motorcycle jacket attempsen, No,
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: do you have.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: One on your wishlist or something?
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: All right? So Sam wants to be featured as the
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: star of Christina and Tolga's documentary, so he's allowing them
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: to film him and the wives.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: And he went and bought that jacket for the document.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I believe so because he wears it in every scene.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you, like, he thought.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: That was a really cool jacket.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: And he also, you know, he drives Christine around in
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: his Bentley, and so he wants her to, like, you know,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: film him driving around his Bentley with his motorcycle jacket on.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Sam asked Christine to film the wives, insisting that the
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: girls speak to the camera alone. The wives appear completely
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: devoted to him. It's creepy when you watch it, when
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: you watch all the wives around him, they all like
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: are all touching him and they stare.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Up at him.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: You think that you think some of that was exaggerated
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: for the documentary, like they saw the cameras or maybe
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: he told them.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: No. I believe that behind closed doors, he is very
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: authoritative with them and tells them how to behave, how
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: to act act like you adore me, act like you
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: know all the things.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, so you're saying on and off camera, that's how
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: they are. I was just wondering to say, if he
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: had them, if he was like, builds me up when
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: she comes over.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Okay. So then after filming, Sam takes Christine and Tolga
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: into his Bentley and tells them not to record.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: So he doesn't want them to record.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, Christine secretly records audio on her phone, so she
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: uses her phone to secretly record him to build tru
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: and Sam admits to abusing minors and Christine captures it.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: He doesn't say abuse obviously, He's talking about you know,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: his his wives and you know, ages and things. She
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: contacts police, but there is a delay in their response.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Authorities later say the footage is not enough for a warrant.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Did you know while I was researching this case? After
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: I so, after I watched the whole documentary, I was
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: so obsessed with is all of it? And I had
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: so many questions. I was just out there googling and
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: reading more and reading articles. I don't know if you
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: knew this, but in twenty twenty, Utah past Senate Bill
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: one Oh two, which decriminalized polygamy among consenting adults by
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: reducing bigamy from a felony to just an infraction, basically
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: like the same as a trraphic ticket. And when I
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: first read that, I thought, why would they do that?
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know, And then as I read more, it
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: made sense to me. The reason why they did that
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: is because the fact that polygamy was a felony kept women,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: especially women right from coming forward and talking about the
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: abuse that goes on within these communities.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: It was really, if that's the word of protection.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: It was, yeah, it was so Really the intent of
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: the law was to take away the felony aspect of
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: it so that women and miners or so they.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Don't feel like I'm confessing to a crime.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: If I don't get arrested, they can.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Say, They're like, I'm just going to get a little
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: traffic ticket.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: It's like, maybe nothing, right, but it was the purpose
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: of the bill was so that women could come forward
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: and speak freely without fear of prosecution.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Being Okay, so someone gets married to a second spouse,
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: they will get that's a.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Well, it's an infraction, but it's not a felony anymore.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: So it's an infraction, yeah, because fraction misdemeanor felinary. So
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: every day are you getting an infraction like a tic
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: as idation?
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: No, I don't even think when I read about it
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and the intent, the legislation intended to bring polygamous families
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: out of the shadows, allowing them to interact with authorities
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: regarding abuse, exploitation, or fraud without fear of immedia incarceration
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: for their lifestyle. So the bill was passed with near
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: unanimous support and the Utah Legislator and signed by Governor
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Gary Herbert. I think the intent of the bill was
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: just so that people would feel free to come forward
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: and talk about the abuse instead of trying to keep Oh.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they feel like I can't go in public, or
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: someone asked me who my husband is, I can't report it,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Like they can't speak at all.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: So the law did not legalize polygamy. The state still
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: only recognizes one legal marriage license, but it reduced the
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: criminal penalty for entering into additional voluntary religious unions. So
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting. It just took place in
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Back to Sam, so Sam sends his wives
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: over to Christine's house to film for the documentary, all
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: of the wives describe Sam as the center of their
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: life and only portray him positively. Julia Johnson. So we're
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: back to Moroni Moron and I's first wife is named
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Julia Johnson. I have to say, watching this documentary, I
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: know Christine, doctor Christine who infiltrated the group and had
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: all this amazing intent to just help them and befriend
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: them and be there for them, and I know she's
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: a heroine and all of this, But for me, my
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: takeaway after watching this entire documentary was Julia Johnson is
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: the true hero in this. She is a woman that
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: has lived within this FLDS community. She is the one
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: that is married to Moroni. She's his first wife. She
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: is the one that had the four daughters that were
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: taken away and given to Sam. She is the wife
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: who secretly comes forward and starts communicating with Christine. After
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: she tries Christine, she starts going over to her house,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: and little by little she starts opening up and she
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: starts talking about how what is going on is wrong
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: and she does not follow it, and that she feels
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: like he's leading them into hell. And she starts telling
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Christine all these things.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, how long of a period of time was this
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: from when she first started to go into the community
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: and when.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Christine moved to this FLDS community in twenty sixteen. I
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: think it was around twenty twenty, maybe when they started
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: making documentary.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: Or filming as a long time that she was really
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: having to be diligent.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: And being a part of the community and really befriending
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: and really becoming part of it. So Christine then secretly
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: meets with Warren Levi, who is Moroni and Julia's son.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: He does not support Sam Bateman. He says that he
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: has seen Sam with underage girls, including his own sister
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: he like nine years old.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: Hi Ya.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: We learned that before Sam Maroni had been shunned for
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: taking additional wives and having children with them. Maroni believed
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: he was spiritually condemned. So when Sam offers him redemption,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: he fully commits. Maroni gives Sam his money, wives, and authority.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: It's so odd to me to.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Think that just some man who rises up and says
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: that he talks to Warren Jeffs, and Warren Jeffs isn't
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: alive anymore, and he's a new prophet, and someone's like
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: great and he jumps on that because it makes him
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: feel better about his own choices.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't get anything that these people
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: are doing.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: So Christine's secretly meets with other FLDS members to gather
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: more information and learns about Naomi. Her name they call
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: her Gnomes. Her name's Naomi. This is one of Sam's wives.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: She is always by his side, She's completely loyal to him,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: and she was brought into the group by Ladell, who's
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: one of those three men that we talked about earlier.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Soon after Sam reveals his ambitions.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: This is so crazy.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: This is on record right that Sam, because I think
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Christine asked him, like, what is your goal in life?
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Like what is it?
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: What do you what is what are you trying to accomplish?
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: And he basically says that his ambitions are to govern
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: the world, and he begins posting self help videos to YouTube.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: He also talks about how you know he's going to
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: rule England and the queen, he's going to marry the queen.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Well that would be the next step, that would be.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: The next step. I mean he just says that very nonchalantly,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: like that's just you know, the next plan, and all
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: his wives, you know, sit around and you know, nod
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: and agree with him as to like the next step.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Christine continues gaining trust and collecting information. She talks to
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: the underage wives and they tell Christine and that Sam
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: is the one who taught them about sex. They say
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: that priesthood does not frown upon marrying a minor, and
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: the Lord is letting them get blessed, meaning is in
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: having sex when they are ready. She sends this evidence
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: to local police, but receives no response. Christine then pushes
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: to involve the FBI due to activity across state lines.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I think Sam travels with the women across state lines.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what he's doing, like why he travels?
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Why you take some places? So the FBI then joins
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: the case and questions local law enforcements and action. And
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: despite video evidence, the case is difficult because no victims
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: are willing to testify. You know, these women that are
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: all married to him were very closed.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: They'd been coached.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: And brainwashed and all the things right, and in these
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: younger girls, these nine ten eleven year old girls, you know,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: they'd been coached I'm sure as to what to say too,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: and they knew what to say, what not to say.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: So they had a hard time getting evidence that he
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: was actually having sexual activity with these younger minor girls.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: Well, the only way is if one of them becomes pregnant.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: That's a key way that they then you can't deny sex.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Christine begins to subtle warned the girls to stay safe
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: from predators. And Julia, this is Morona's wife, Julia, who
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: I talked about, who I said, I feel like is
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: the true hero, and all of this senses that Christine
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: is someone she can turn to for help. Julia admits
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: that there is suffering in the group, but initially avoids
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: criticizing Sam. Then Christine shares her own past trauma where
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: she was married to a false prophet and went through
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: abuse and all those things, and I feel like once
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: she shares her own story, Julia then breaks down and
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: realizes that she needs help to get her family away
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: from Sam. So Julia's four daughters are now married to Sam,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: and she knows that there's all these horrific things going
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: on with these children. Sam verbally abuses the wives when
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: cameras are off, He forces them to write repetitive phrases
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: like Sam, I am making love with you for hours,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: and it shows their notebooks on this documentary. It's so
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: strange to see these notebooks filled with these young girls,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: you know, like I think about like.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: That over and over and over again, just to put
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: it in their brain.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Julia never supported giving her daughters away to Sam, but
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: felt forced due to Moroni's desires because that was her husband, right,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: she was the first wife. And she talks about how
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: in this type of culture, you don't question the husband.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: He's the top of the food chain, right, he makes
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: all the decisions. The women aren't there to lend, you know, opinions.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: They're there to obey. And they talk about that a
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: lot in this FLDS community, that these women from a
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: very from the men that they're born, they learn to obey.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: And so later on this is Naomi, which is one
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: of his wives. I will tell you from the very
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: beginning when I first started watching this, I'd say in
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: the first two to three episodes, I didn't like in Naomi,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: this wife. They show her a lot. She's very She's
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: always next to Sam, always holding him, always hugging him.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: She's she just.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: She's building them up.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: She rubbed me the wrong way I didn't like her.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: I felt like she just had like this evil look
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: in her eyes. She was always controlling everything. She was
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: controlling the other girls.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: She was She just didn't say that's how you feel
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: about most people you meet.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: No, I'm just telling you, but my opinion of her
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: changed drastically. So I just wanted to point that out
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: that in the beginning, she was very difficult for me
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: because I felt like she.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Was the ringleader.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Despite fear of law enforcement, Julia agrees to meet with
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: an FBI agent named Dawn, who is leading this case.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: She provides testimony about Sam's abuse and gathers critical evidence
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: such as photos, birth certificates, and videos, and she and
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Christine create secret ways to pass evidence without raising suspicion,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: often meeting each other extremely late at night in inconspicuous locations.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: This is where I feel like Julia is really the
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: hero and all of this, because you know, she is
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: a wife of Morone. You know she is taught to obey.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: She has lived within this FLDS community, I'm sure her
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: whole entire life. She has children with Moron I that
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: have been given away to Sam, and she is secretly
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: meeting with Christine giving away information and she is secretly
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: meeting with the FBI. Now, can you imagine the fear
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: that she is feeling or.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Because the risk that she's running, Because.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: She is, and she's putting it all out there, and
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: she's risking everything. She's not obeying, she's not doing what
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: she's supposed to do, She's going against everything she's been taught.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: But it's so bad. She realizes that this whole situation
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: with Sam and all these minor children and all these
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: things that are going on is so bad that it's
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: even someone as brainwashed as this community is. For her
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: to realize that it's wrong and to do the things
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: that she did, I think is so commendable because she
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: really is risking herself and her position.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: That she's come to realize how bad it is that
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: she needs to do all this.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: So the FBI pushes for warrants but cannot act without
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: direct disclosure from an underage victim. Agents ask Christine to
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: stay close to Sam to continue gathering evidence. And then
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: there's this weird thing that happens in the documentary. I
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: don't remember which episode it is, but Sam decides that
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: he wants to make a music video, so they're preparing
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: like and Christina, she does such a great job of
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: knowing he's a sexual predator and knowing that he's praying
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: on these young girls and that he's married to them
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: and that he's having sex with them. But she does
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: such a great job of just continuing to act like
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: everything's normal and that she likes him and respects him
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: because she's trying, she's gathering more information at this point, right,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: so she can't show disgust or disdain. She can't act
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: like she doesn't like him. She has to continue to
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: play this role of this woman that respects him and
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: thinks he's a great guy, which I think would.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: Be so difficult to do an Oscar.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: So Sam plans to create a music video to gain
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: global attention from the Queen of England specifically right because
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: he's going to marry her and she's going to come
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: out there. Christina and Tolga go along with it to
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: maintain access and after filming, and Christine tries to photograph
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Sam with all his wives. So she was kind of
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: smart in that she was, Like I remember in the
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: documentary she says, Oh, you just made this, you know,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: music video, and why don't we document it? Why don't
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I get a picture with you with each one of
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: your wives, because she's trying to get evidence right of
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: all the women that he's married to, and there's young
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: girls in there. So Sam refuses to be photographed with
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: the underage girls because that's what took Warren Jeff's down.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: I think I believe. He even says that Julia becomes
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: increasingly fearful and panicked, and Moroni questions whether she is
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: considering reporting Sam. Moroni pressures Julia to sign over guardianship
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: of her children to Sam, and Sam begins planning to
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: obtain passports for all of his wives, suggesting possible relocation
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: or escape to wear I don't know, but I think
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I think he's becoming paranoid. He probably knows that like
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: people are looking into him. So Sam, I don't know
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: why he does this or we are he's planning on going,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: But he puts all his wives into a car and trailer,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: and some of the wives are actually like in the
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: trailer part and I'm not I don't mean like a
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: trailer trailer you.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: Travel, yeah, for transporting cargo, right, shit mints.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: So Sam is first detained while traveling with multiple wives
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: and a car and trailer. They actually could see. Why
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: he gets pulled over is because you could see the
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: wives sticking their hands out of the trailer doors outside,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: like while they're on the freeway.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: And they were doing that.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: They were holding they were holding the door shut because
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: the doors were broken, they were gonna like fly open.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: So they were like a lane. He can't he can't
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: fix the lock on his trailer. His wives in there.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Julia's children contact her and provide trooper information, which is
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: important due to the ongoing FBI case. Julia was actually
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: very smart in this. So the trooper pulls them over.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: He sees that some of these girls are under age.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: He says, I have to call your parents, right, So
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: he ends up contacting Julia, who is the mole at
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: this point, right within the FLDS community. She is smart
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: enough to one she acts like she gave permission for
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: her children to be there. So the CoP's like, okay,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: I can't do anything because the mother's saying, I don't
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: know they're allowed to be there, right, right, But she
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: asked the trooper for his contact information and his name,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: which was so smart of her to take.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Then she could call him at another time.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: No, because then what she does is then she contacts
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: the FBI that she's been working with and says, the
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: state trooper just pulled over Sam.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: He's trying to leave.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: He's got all the wives in the back of the trailer.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: The FBI then contacts the trooper. She can't let her
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: daughters know that she's telling the cop that they're not
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: allowed to be there, so she plays the role very well.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: When she gets the phone call, she says, yes, I
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: gave permission for my daughters to be there. Then she
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: secretly goes. She gets his name in.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: A way, it's almost like an anonymous tip, right, so
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: when they I'm guessing you'll tell me. But if the
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: FEDS come and sees the trailer and this and that
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: and pull them over whatever, then it won't look like
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: that came from her, because she permitted them just prior
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: to that, right.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: So she doesn't. She's very smart on the fly to
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: know that she needs to maintain her figure as this
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: mother who obeys and allowed her children to go with Sam.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Within this community.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: But then she goes and makes the call to the FBI,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: tells the FBI that they got pulled over by a trooper,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: and then the FBI contacts that trooper. Yeah, so then
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: it's outside of her being involved within it. The media
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: begins to take interest in this case, increasing fear among
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: the wives. I'm telling you, these wives have been trained
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: because when they get pulled over by the police, they
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: are so rude to the cop. They won't give their name.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: They are taught to not respect authority.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: They don't. They argue with him, they get in his face,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: they tell him to let Sam go.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: They are so they.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: For these crazy I'm like, for these.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Demure women who like don't talk much and don't wear makeup,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: and they all dress the same and they do and
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: they do as they're told, and they're so pious and
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: they they're religious and they don't know anything about the
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: real life. And then I'm telling you, a cop pulls
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: them over and they're like f.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: U cops ever no, and they're like a line.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Day, I'm not giving you our name and you let
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Sam go and we're not listening to you, and they like.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Try to run.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're there. It's like a whole nother personality.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: When the authorities come around, they're like feral women that
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: got trapped and they're crazylins. Right after midnight. They are crazy.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: So Torrance, that's the one of the men that owns
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: the successful company, he posts one hundred and fifty thousand
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: dollars in bail. He pays the full amount. He like,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: brings a check. This guy does well. So he's buying
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Billy's Green Energy or something. I don't know, but.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: He's scamming the government.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: You think, yeah, he's making.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: Collecting welfare off of everyone too.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: So Torrence posts one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Bailey
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: brings a check, and despite FBI concerns about Sam's release,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Sam is reunited with his wives, reinforcing their belief that
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: he is being persecuted as a prophet.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: So then yeah, they're like using never let a crisis
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: go to waste, right, So he's like saying, see the
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: evil is against us, right, I'll come sleep with me.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Christine secretly captures Sam discussing plans to delete evidence from
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: his phone while he's in federal custody. This leads to
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: authorities finally obtaining a warrant and planning a raid, so
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: they finally build up enough evidence against him in order
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: to be able to raid the compound. So from what
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: I understand he lives in two different homes. There's like
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: a greenhouse and a blue house, and he kind of
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: goes back and forth between them because he has a
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: lot of wives, right, so you got to like, you
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: can't keep them all in one place. Naomi is interviewed
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: and describes total devotion to Sam. She believes that he
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: was her only path to salvation. And she explains that
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: she learned to behave exactly how he wanted and gave
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: him complete obedience. All right, that's Naomi. So again she
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: changes in the end, she had it.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: She does a whole baby, so we'll get to that
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: in a little bit.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: The FBI plans a raid, and so Christina and Tolga
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: used Sam's ego to lure him into an interview away
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: from the group. They were actually very smart about that.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I think Tolgo is the one that talks him into
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: doing like an early morning interview because he wants it
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: as part of the documentary. Talks him into coming and
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: sitting in a chair and doing an interview. He gets
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: him away from the wives so that the FBI can
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: come in and they end up rating. Naomi senses something
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: is wrong. Sam is arrested during the interview. So the
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: FBI comes.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: In the show Sam getting arrested. It shows all they
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: have no motorcycle jacket.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: I believe he did. Actually I don't know for sure,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure. I feel like he probably had
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: his most stylish Yeah, well, he was doing an interview
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: for his documentary, so I feel like he had it.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: The FBI then raids the houses where the wives are staying,
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: and all of the wives deny being married to Sam
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: during questioning.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: Did this raid take place?
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: I believe this is twenty twenty two when the FBI
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: raids this Sam Bateman group. The underage girls are then
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: taken into state custody and the adult wives are placed
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: in a house with Christine. The FBI gathers significant evidence
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: during this raid, but still lacks the victim testimony. This
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: is what they can't get. They can't get any of
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: these miners saying yes, they're sexual activity with this man.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: They have been, no, they you could you could easily
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: scare a ten year old to never open their mouths, right,
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: and they have been frightened.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Right. So here's the interesting part. Or I don't know
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: if this is interesting, but this was. I was like,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: are you kidding me. So the minor girls, they all
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: send them together to like a foster home or something,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: so they're all together. First of all, that was the
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: number one mistake because as long as these girls are
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: together and there's older girls and younger girls, those older girls.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: Like they cancer will still stay with them, right.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: So then the Department of Child Services had some type
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: of memo or something or some type of they had
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: written something down that said basically that Christine was an informant,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: and then they had thrown it away in the trash
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: at this home.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Where these girls are.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: The girls found it in the trash and like and
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: taped it back together, and they learned that Christine was
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: an informant for the FBI.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: So then they're all mad.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: They tell you know, Sam, they tell everybody. So now
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Christine's been outed that she's been working with the FBI
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: as an informant, and they become.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Furious with her.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: This is also like we were talking about before about
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: how these girls are so obedient.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: They have this personality of very you know, demur and.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Pious and quiet, and you know, they don't have opinions
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: and they don't all these things. When they find out
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: that Christine is an informant. You should see the text
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: messages that they send to her. They shows the text
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: messages and I'm just like, it's like you e fing
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: this and f you and you brought in hell you efing.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: It's like crazy. They go feral when they get.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: They got a lot of anger built up from all
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: the abuse that they've been put through.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Julia is exposed also as an informant. Julia confronts her
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: husband Maroni and tells him that they have been following
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: a false prophet. Moroni realizes the truth and he agrees
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: to cooperate with the FBI. He admits to abusing miners
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: and confirms Sam's actions. He is having sex with all
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: of these wives and the miners and also doing it
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: like on video chats with other people watching, and also
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: like having group sex where some of the wives are
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: watching and some of them are participating. And also according
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: to Moroni, the husband of Julia, yeah, Sam and Moroni
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: had sex. So I'm just telling you just they left
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of that out in the documentary, and maybe
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: it was to protect the miners.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe it was to not be so much about.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: So they're protecting the miners, and now you're going to
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: expose Well, no, I'm.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Just well, it's out there. No, But I'm saying maybe
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: the point in not going into the dirty details of
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: that was to take away from I don't know.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess you could just you could use your.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: Maybe Yeah, enough was said. They didn't need to go
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: into such horrific details.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: And I guess it was even so so bad at
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: a point that he used to Sam Bateman used to
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: have all these religious classes and teachings with all the wives, right,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: And then it got to the point where he wasn't
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: even holding those religious classes or lectures or talks anymore
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: because they were just there wasn't time.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Because he had to have sex with his.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Wives all day and record it and have orgies and
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: live stream it and have all the different people involved
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: and watching and doing all the things.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: There was no time left for any priorities, right.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Sam continues communicating with his followers while in custody, and
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: he instructs his wives to take the underage girls from
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: DCS and flee. This is crazy too, so they do
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: come up with a kidnapping plan. So they had the
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: younger minors in like a foster home under control of DCS.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Naomi is part of this plan, and she is located
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: by police and told she is under arrest. She briefly
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: flees from police. She actually runs and hides and they
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: can't find her. I think she sleeps like underneath something
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: in the cold. I mean, that's how much these girls like.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: They're dedicated to noil to him and to not participating
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: or being under any type of authoritative like when they
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: tell them they're under arrest, they don't care. Like she
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: fleed ran they end up finding her.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: The FBI looks the community that you would not adapt
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: well to. No, you would not. You don't even look
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: at a finger for me. You're definitely not. I don't
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: know unless these guys. Maybe these guys you give some motivational
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: classes and teach the skills.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing, here's my question. Because I was
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: thinking of this the whole time I was watching it,
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: And this is what we talk about a lot when
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: we talk about minors and crimes and things. We talk
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: about nature versus nurture. This is what I kept thinking
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: about because we're talking about minor children and the reason
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: that they think the way they think they behave.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: The way they do.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: They're loyal they obey is because they were born into
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: this community. They don't know anything different. They don't have
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: access to the internet, they don't go to schools like
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: traditional kind of schools. They don't know history, they don't
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: learn things.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: They don't know what they're capable of.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: No, they don't.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: They don't know what's right and wrong.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: And yeah, they're not given the freedom to explore talents.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: They don't create art or take gymnastics or go to tennis,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: or they don't socialize with people outside if they're so
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: exactly And so here's my question, And the whole time
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: I was thinking this, we have a thirteen year old daughter, Annabelle,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: who is the feistiest, most fairal child I've ever come
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: into contact with. Talk about her first reaction to anything
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: I say is no, I wonder if you took that
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: child and she's been like that since day one, right,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, she came out of the womb like.
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: Just be your mom says the same thing about you.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm you're not liting me.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Get to my point, sorry, go to your point.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Do you think if annabel Simpson was born into an
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: FLDS community and raised like that, that she would obey
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: like those like those, Yes you do.
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: So that I think they come down so heavy they
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: don't give them any opportunity from daily.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Even a child like her that is spirited from David.
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: She should be like the one that you know ended
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: up ratting when they got older and stuff.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: But no, so you think if she even with the mind, I.
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: Had to think, isn't it it is sad to think
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: that someone so independent could be so controlled.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Well, it made me sad because I just kept thinking
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: about Annabel the whole time. Because these these girls that
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: are married to him and are loyal to him and
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: have no life, They're just in there being sexually abused
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: by this man.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: They're the same age as my daughter.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: And while I'm watching this and younger, and while I'm
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: watching this, I'm thinking if my child was putting it
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: into perspective, because I'm thinking if my child was born
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: into that community, me knowing what I know about her
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: and her personality, and how that child never backs down.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: She's opinionated, she said, her first response to anything is no,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: absolutely not. It made me wonder if she could be
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: broken down like that within that community because she knows nothing.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: Helicopter and drop her.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to see.
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: And see if she comes out, she'll be like, she'll
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: come out and save everyone as she would.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: That's what we need to do. We need to drop
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: Annabell into the FLDS community. So Naomi ends up going
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: to prison because of the kidnapping of the underage girls.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: And you know, she talks about how here's the really
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: interesting if you don't, if you watch this documentary, I'll
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: tell you there's a pivotal moment in this documentary where
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: I actually wanted to jump up and clap because I did, yes,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: because I could.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: Not stand Nomes. I couldn't. I admit that.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: They show a chair and the producers are going to
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: interview someone and they show her. I'm getting emotional. I
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: don't even know why. They show her walk in and
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: sit in that chair and she's dressed in regular street clothes.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: She's got makeup on, her hair's curled, and I thought,
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: thank God, this child has seen the light. Because she
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: was the hardest. Like she was the hardest. She was
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: the one that was like defending him till the bitter
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: end and controlling the other girls, and she just had
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: that look in her eye and she was tough.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: But she's gonna still have some healing to do.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: That's so Gnomes ends up in a jail cell next
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: to Sam Bateman, and she talks about how he was
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: talking to her for like four hours straight, and when
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: he was talking to her, he was telling her things,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: and it started to click that some of the things
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: he was saying weren't true because he was intradicting things
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: that he had said earlier. And something clicked in her
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: mind where she thought, I don't believe you. I've been
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: taught to obey and believe everything you say, and now
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: I'm catching you in lies.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but something happened in her mind.
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: Well, probably being in a cell, she wasn't under complete
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: control all the time. Yeah, she was able to get
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: away and reflect on what he was saying and think right.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: So anyway, she spends I think a year in prison,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: and being away from him allowed her to to just
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: what you said. Her mind was free, she could think
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: for herself. She does a lot of art in prison.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: She's an amazing artist. I think she didn't even know
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: she was talented. Probably not, and now she realized that.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: So eight months after Sam's arrest, some underage wives come
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: forward and confirm the abuse. And this is when they
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: start talking. Is when they didn't have them all together
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: within a home. They put once the kidnapping once they
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: caught them, after they tried the kidnapping scheme or whatever.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: When they finally the authorities get them back, they put
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: them in separate foster homes. They weren't all together. And
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: that's when they started talking because I believe they were
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: taken out of that environment. They didn't have the other wives,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: the older ones, or they weren't sticking together with their
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: plan or what they'd been taught. They start to just
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: assimilate into a different life and that's when they started
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: talking about the abuse and they started confirming like what
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: they had been through. Sam is sentenced to fifty years
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: in prison, and while some of his wives recognize the deception,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: others continue to follow him. And of course I'm sure
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: he still has followers, and I think he still has
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: some wives that believe in him. And you know the
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: problem with the prison is like Warren Jeffs, then they
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: become a martyr, right then they compare themselves to Jesus
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: or being on the cross.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: It's like I'm being persecuted.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: I believe what they're doing right, moron. I goes on
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: to plead guilty to conspiracy to traffic a minor and
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: receives a twenty five year sentence that has to do
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: with away his minor children to Sam, knowing full well
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: what's going on within that, and then eight adult wives
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: receive prison sentences. Torrence, Bissline, and Liddell, those are the brothers,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: are convicted and sentenced to thirty five years and life,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: respectively for sex trafficking, good for sex trafficking miners, knowing
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: what was going on, knowing the abuse of these children, kids,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: over being a part of it, being involved in it,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: transporting them, all the things. They're all convicted, they're all
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: in prison, as they should cut.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: Off their communication too, with each other, well with those
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: in prison, with these men in prison, back to their families,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: because then they're just going to continue to mislead.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know what, I also, I don't remember
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: if this is what I read after or it was
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: in the documentary, But because Sam has access to so
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: much money, because Torrence has the business, I guess you
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: can buy video time, so he spends all his time
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: in prison, like you know, constantly out there talking, communicating.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: There should be a cap on that.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that too. I thought, why is he
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: allowed to continue to communicate as much as he wants?
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: Because it's just based on how much money he has
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: in his account or whatever. You can do some video
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: call all the time.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: What else can he pay for?
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Also, doctor Christine is still within the
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: FLDS community. She wants to stay and continue to offer
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: support and all the things, which is kind. I really
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: liked her. She's eccentric and quirky. She has a great personality.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: I thought she was fun. Don't let the cover art
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: of the show if you go, if you see it
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: on Netflix, it's a little corny, and it's because it
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: shows doctor Christine because she's a little quirky.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: It shows her with like.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: A cowboy hat on and I think, like pink cowboy
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: boots or something, and then it shows like the LDS
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: women FLDS FLDS woman behind her. So I think the
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: cover art's a.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: Little you know, a little as to what you're going
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: to end up.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so don't let that fool you. I feel
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: like it's an amazing documentary because it documents everything, and
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: the purpose with her documenting everything was not to catch
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: a predator, but she ends up catching approach.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: Surely was a documentary. It resulted in a capture.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: Right right, And so I don't know, I think it's
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: one of the best documentaries I've ever watched. I think
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: you take away so much from it, you question it.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: I was questioning, you know, my own daughter and what
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: would have happened if she was in this community. I
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: wanted to know where Naomi was now, So I found
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: her Instagram, and it looks like Naomi Gnomes is out
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: there living her best life and showed some they're doing
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: press for this docuseries, and so it looked like she
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: was in New York and she has this like really
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: good looking boyfriend. It's sent her photos on Instagram. So
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I was like so happy to see that she's taken
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: a terrible situation that she was born into and is
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: now doing art and traveling and went to New York.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: City and do it a lot, like you know, putting
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: your own kids in the situation, kind of having perspective
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: on that. Did you do that with me?
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, you mean you're not because you're not a Predator's.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: Not so bad. I always do myself the laundry right now. Yes,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: and I'm up here complaining.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not complaining. I'm watching the Netflix. Yes. My takeaway
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: is that I married a very, very I don't know,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: an amazing father to our children and a husband, and
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I don't worry. You know, here's the thing. Shane's so solid.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: I should tell him this more often, but I don't.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: But Shane's so solid. I don't question things.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: I don't worry about things.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: He's always he's always doing the right thing.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: And we'll just end that episode with that.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: There you go. Is that good?
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: Sure?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for listening to Legally Brunette.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: If you get the opportunity to watch it, it's called
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: The False Prophet and it's extremely good. I recommend that
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: everyone watch it. It's four episodes. Please be sure to
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: follow Legally Brunette wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, I
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: know if you're listening to our episodes within the two
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: t's network, not all of our episodes are there, so
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have to come over to Legally Brunette to
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: listen to all of our episodes. And then, lastly, I
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: just want to give a big thank you to all
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: of you who send me dms and recommend cases. This
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: was one that you recommended, and so you guys did
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: a great job. Thank you. I really appreciate the feedback
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: and the recommendations of cases that we should talk about,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: so thank you so much.