Latest / Blocked and Reported / Episode 227: One Of The Saddest True-Life Stories About A Schizophrenic Deaf Muslim Amputee Gamer You Will Hear This Week

Transcript

Episode 227: One Of The Saddest True-Life Stories About A Schizophrenic Deaf Muslim Amputee Gamer You Will Hear This Week · Blocked and Reported

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: jesse i need you to google something really fast i would love to okay you've got
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: your browser pulled up i need you to type in to your browser the term golden goose
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: two words i'm already nervous about this is this you should be is this going to be
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: gross golden it's disgusting yes well so why am i googling it why can't you just
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: tell me just do it all right oh it's expensive sneakers i want you to describe them
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: and then tell people the price
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's not disgusting.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like normal capitalism.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Golden Goose.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is not normal capitalism.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is disgusting capitalism.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's a shoe brand called Golden Goose.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: So picture like a sneaker that your dad would wear to the mall.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Or like your grandma maybe would wear to the mall to go mall walking in 1993.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: So like the chunky, clunky, hideous sneakers, right?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now imagine that these shoes are being worn by a fentanyl addict on the streets of
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: San Francisco who has been using the shoes to wipe their own ass.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they look like.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's an accurate description of what these shoes look like?
• 1:14
  Yeah.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think more disgusting than it needed to be.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: You could have just said they walked through the mud.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, they're intentionally made to look dirty.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they are, in fact, $2,350.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Who?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think I know who buys these.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like in Soho or certain neighborhoods of Brooklyn, there's the sort of person who would...
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is gross, man.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: it is a this is apparently a very high end brand of shoes that look like they have
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: been vomited on by a fentanyl addict.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: They're unbelievably disgusting.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like you could not wear these shoes to a party.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where you could wear them to because people would think that you were
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: homeless if you wore these shoes to any like even to like a target they would kick
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: you out of target for wearing these shoes and you'd be like no no no no these are
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: golden gooses they're $2,300 and the security the loss prevention officer would be
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: like no get out you're homeless and you're stealing shit
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: What made you so mad about this and so much more engaged in this than in basically anything else?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I get mad about the dumbest shit.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is exactly the sort of thing I would be mad about.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess that's true.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're just so ugly.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're just so fucking ugly.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well...
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: I can't put photos of them in the show notes because I'm worried about getting sued,
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: but I'll post a link.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Can we hash this out publicly?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Your lawsuit obsession?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going to get sued if you put a screenshot of a sneaker in...
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the thing.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: When I worked at The Stranger,
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've told you this so many times,
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Jesse,
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: now I'm telling the public,
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: but you have heard this story from me a million times and yet you continue to put
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: copyrighted photographs in our show notes occasionally,
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: which I then have to go and delete.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Just once.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was at The Stranger,
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: The Stranger had 30 years of content on the website,
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: including lots of photos that had no credit.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe it was creative comments.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was from Wikipedia.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was, you know, a Getty image that they'd paid for.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it was someone's original art.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And they started getting,
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: like legal notices from photographers because there are bots that crawl through
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: websites and they find images that have been copyrighted and at the stranger
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: everyone every copyrighted image that they had used without permission and some of
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: these they probably had permission but everyone that they had that was on the
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: website cost them sixteen thousand dollars to the point where they actually had to
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: pay out
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, this is, yes, it was $16,000 and they ended up taking like that.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: You couldn't,
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: it would have been impossible to go through 30 years of content on the website and
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: eliminate all of the ones that didn't have a proper photo credit or check the ones
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: to make sure that they actually had a license to use the photo.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so what they did was they just took off all of the photos,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: took all of the images off of the website.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you go back to old content, the photos just or whatever the image was, maybe it was original art.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just gone.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I'm paranoid about this.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a completely legitimate thing to be paranoid about.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: If we were if we're like talking about these shoes and we and we use the
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: copyrighted photo,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: we could probably make a fair use argument in court.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not going over.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to court.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: That would be good.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: But that'd be good.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: It would be good for the podcast to go to court.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be so fun.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: if you think it would be good for the podcast,
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: we can take the money to pay the lawyer out of your minuscule cut.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're just sitting at your computer raging about sneakers of all things.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in Maine.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maine is beautiful this time of year.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And when you get off your plane and you go down the stairs,
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: there's a little set-aside area with a taxidermied moose,
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: like a giant moose,
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: multiple bears.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that just made me really happy because it's like,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: in case you weren't sure what state you had arrived in,
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: it tells you.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that great?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Killing animals for the pleasure of looking at their carcasses makes you happy.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're quite the vegetarian, my friend.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a good vegetarian.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: The only other thing I want to say before we get into it.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Also, what's your name?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Katie Herzog.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Jesse single.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is blocked to report it.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is a sneaker review, uh, scuffed and reported.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the only other thing I wanted to say is that I am doing an event September 21st in Chicago.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I will be interviewing Richard Dawkins on stage.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to finally determine whether God exists.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Someone made that joke when I announced it on Twitter.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully some blockbuster important listeners can come.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's at the Chicago Theater and it should be a good time.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Are you jealous?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Of what?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Of you hanging out with Richard Dawkins or the fact that the announcement about this,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: some idiotic account made that meme.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: What was it?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain that?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: There was like a poster with Richard Dawkins and then me much smaller as it should be.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And this guy, I don't know why I say his name because he's one of the dumbest lefty accounts.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: He did a mocked up version of it where it's like...
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: two transphobes debate whether pee is stored in the balls.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so low effort and it misspelled really basic words.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think he has like a learning disability, which isn't his fault, but it was crazy.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he's still a moron.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: That is his fault.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: He said, he said like Jesse single making lives scarier for trans kids.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: But he misspelled scarier.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Scarier.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very dumb.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And also just the fact that any human being spent time to mock that up.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's honestly embarrassing.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Very embarrassing for him.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Someone sent a link of Tim Pool absolutely wrecking him during a debate segment.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: He got wrecked by Tim Pool?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you're getting wrecked by Tim Pool, you are not good at this and you should quit.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: anyway today what are we good i think it sounds very cool i'm glad for you um and
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: i'm glad i don't have to be there what if i if i paid you to come out would you
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: come how much 25 000 dollars
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's been a lot of speculation about why I don't want to travel.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Leave the country.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was really interesting.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it gets into conspiracy territory,
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: maybe because I have ruled that by alluding to the fact that I can't leave the country.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a conspiracy if it's true.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you tell people why you can't leave the country?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard for me to get to the airport.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Pfft.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: because you're in prison no it's really it's like for me to get to the airport
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: because of the way the ferry system works i have to leave like six hours in advance
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: sometimes like eight hours in advance to get to to make a flight it's honestly it's
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: very terrible how it's a long story having to do with the aging ferry system
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: legislation about where ferries can be built i'm not going to bore with it but i
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: will say it's really hard for me to get to the airport and also i don't want to go
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was about to ask, what are we going to talk about today?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: What are we talking about today?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just continue to talk about my problems.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine with me.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to talk about a really interesting drama unfolding in the world of games accessibility.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Not an area we've talked about a lot on the show.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is a crazy story.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to take you through it.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: First, I wanted to do a little bit of extra stuff about gender.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Our last premium episode was about gender.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: You should check it out in the feed.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: We really recommend it.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a little bit of leftover gender in the fridge that I was hoping to serve up today.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I just want to talk about what happens when this one very particular view of sex
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: and gender catches on in real world institutions.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is the view that I think a lot of trans activists and their allies hold.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Roughly put...
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me if you agree that this is the view they hold.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Biological sex is like more or less a construct or it's just very fuzzy.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Gender identity, which is in the head, that's who someone really is.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: You really are a woman if your brain gives you a female gender identity, right?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you laughing?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's the opposite of the reality that I lived in.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: My lived experience tells me that biological sex, pretty cut and dry.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Some edge cases where things are less clear cut, but pretty cut and dry.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Gender,
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: gender identity,
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: on the other hand,
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: that's to me the equivalent of the soul,
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: which I don't believe in.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: You said something off mic, which I think is interesting.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think I agree with you.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: You said you don't think you have a gender identity.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do you?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't think I do.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, that's like a challenge to the whole people get to decide what they are.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen multiple people,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: including an example we'll get to shortly,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: institutions and people insisting everyone has a gender identity.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: The way it's described to me, an internal feeling of thinking you're a man or a woman,
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't I don't feel that and if you tell me that well you do have it you just
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: don't know it it's like okay says who I don't I don't quite understand what it
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: means unless we're talking about stereotypes but they insist it's not just
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: stereotypes yeah right as though like if you put on a skirt you
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you felt uncomfortable in a skirt, that would be because of your gender identity as a man.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas,
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: it seems to me like you might feel uncomfortable in a skirt because you don't want
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: to show your legs.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Although you do because you wear cargo shorts.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: I could pull it off.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because you would be transgressing some social norms.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is a good example because at the time, Julia Serrano has this thought experiment.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: She's a trans activist and writer to help cis people understand gender identity.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's basically that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: How would you feel if you had to go out dressed as a woman if you're a man or a man if you're a woman?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, I endorsed it, I think, at one point when I worked at New York Magazine.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, this can help us understand.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: I actually don't think that anymore because the reason I would feel embarrassed
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: wearing a dress is because I live in a society where I'm not supposed to wear a dress.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like saying,
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: would you if you feel strange if you walked outside the house wearing a hat made
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: out of tinfoil?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that's the equivalent.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you do something that is transgressing the norms of your society, you're going to feel weird about it.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you're one of the people who like transgressing the norms of your society,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: in which case you feel great about it.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not your gender still.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's an important difference because if Julia Serrano,
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: before she transitioned,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: when she presented as male,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: just wore male clothes,
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: no one would judge her for that.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: She, at the time, might feel like it's not true to herself, but that's just a different thing.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, because of this view of gender identity... Sorry.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, go ahead.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: When I was a kid, I was a tomboy, and I did feel uncomfortable wearing girl clothes.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that was because of my gender identity.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just because I didn't like those clothes.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And there's like there's this is increasingly getting confused.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then for my book, I'm talking to I've talked to a lot of parents.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And in some cases, you see kids like at least get pretty close to medicalization.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And there's almost nothing there in terms of traditional gender dysphoria.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's all just discomfort with gender roles or they don't want to get their period like that.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's weird.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway,
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: so there's been this sort of linguistic activism around this sense of gender identity,
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: this ideology.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it basically says that we should focus more on gender identity than biological sex.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we should seek to remove mentions of biological sex from things that has
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: previously been paired with like pregnancy,
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: childbirth and so on.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is how we get really amazing coinages like uterus haver.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: What are some others?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Ball haver.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Does anyone use that?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think it's mostly uterus.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have a person who menstruates.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, so we do want people to check it out.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the story you told on our last premium episode was basically about how this
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: view of gender and sex got codified in Australia,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right, so this is a legal case with the name Tickle v. Giggle, unfortunately, or maybe fortunately.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the case stemmed from a trans woman named Roxanne Tickle who sued this app
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: called Giggle and the owner,
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sal Grover,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: because she was kicked off of the app for being trans.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: The app only allowed females.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And Roxanne Tickle won the suit and the judge's determination was basically like,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: look,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: the law that is in Australian legislation that you cannot discriminate against
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: gender identity,
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: giggle discriminated against roxanne tickle because of her gender identity yeah um
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: so i want to get into a couple other examples of this that have happened recently
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: that they're lower stakes but i find them really interesting just because they show
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: what happens when the most hardcore version of this ideology sort of collides with
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: the real world katie can you read this um excerpt from an amnesty international
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: document on the taliban
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Under the Taliban,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: women and girls were discriminated against in many ways for the crime,
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: that's in quotes,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: of identifying as a girl.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to keep going?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: The Taliban enforced their version of Islamic Sharia law.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Women and girls were banned from going to school,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: studying,
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: working,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: leaving the house without a male chaperone.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Male, not identifying as male.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: showing their skin in public accessing health care delivered by men again nothing
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: there about identifying as men with women forbidden from working health care was
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: virtually inaccessible being involved in politics or speaking publicly now was
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: anyone was anyone in afghanistan being oppressed in this manner for identifying as
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: a girl or a woman
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: There might be some trans girls in Afghanistan who were,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: they were probably oppressed for other reasons,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: but no,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: this is not about identifying as a girl.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is about being female.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: They've since changed this language back,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think in part because I tweeted about it and it got picked up a little bit.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're getting things done, Jesse.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is really an example of where the rubber meets the road because it's one thing
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: to call someone the pronoun they want to be called out of politeness.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And to come up with compromises allowing transgender people to live peacefully and with dignity.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: But like this is sort of you're intellectually colonizing the ongoing horrors of
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: the Taliban's treatment of girls and women by pretending this is.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Which are getting worse.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Which as though they have anything to do with Western conceptions of gender identity.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: The Taliban's horrors are not inflicted on people who identify as girls.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: A girl could be like I'm a boy and they'd be like OK you still can't be educated.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're determined from birth.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: If only that worked.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So to see this kind of gobbledygook published by a group like Amnesty is disturbing.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not surprising.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think they've been going down this road a while.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's another recent example I found even crazier.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's from the American Medical Association.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: They released a document called Draft Guidance on Reporting Gender,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sex,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Gender Identity,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sexual Orientation,
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: and Age in Medical and Scientific Publication,
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Call for Review and Comment.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're soliciting input from their members, basically.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: So this includes a glossary just defining key terms.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Katie, this is a long but super important excerpt.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to ask you to read the whole thing because finally,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Katie,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: you and I have talked about how gender isn't well-defined,
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, the American Medical Association has given us a working definition for gender.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to read it now.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Gender noun,
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: a social construct separate from gender identity that typically ascribes qualities
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: of masculinity and femininity to people.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: These qualities can also be gender neutral.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Note, all cultures do not use a binary masculine feminine system.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Gender is one of four general but unique characteristics addressed in this guidance.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: The World Health Organization,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: WHO,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: defines gender as including norms,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: behaviors and roles associated with being a woman,
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: man,
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: girl or boy,
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: as well as relationships with each.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: The WHO states that,
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: quote,
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: gender interacts with but is different from sex,
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: which refers to a different to the different biological and physical.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: You want me to read this whole thing?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: God, it's so long.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Different biological and physiological characteristics of females, males, and intersex person.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: The WHO also notes that as a social construct,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: gender is hierarchical and produces inequalities that intersect with social and
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: economic inequalities.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: I can't finish this.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is too long.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like a third of the way through.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're halfway through.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any better sense of what they mean by gender, having read that?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, isn't it obvious?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a social construct separate from gender identity that typically... This is fucking nonsense.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's also...
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny that it's a social construct because...
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: But also,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: some people are born with a gender different from their biological sex and you need
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: to give them surgery or they'll...
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: it's...
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: It is wild.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Gender just doesn't mean anything anymore.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: People should stop using the term.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sex and biological sex mean something.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Gender identity does at least mean something coherent,
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: even if it's circular or we can't agree on a definition.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, gender doesn't mean anything.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, here's a section from that same document on language surrounding pregnancy and parenting.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just read this one little bit.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Specific terms are acceptable if an individual's gender identity is known or when
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: discussing a study that involves only cisgender women or men,
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: e.g.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: pregnant women, man, and father.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Avoid using overly clinical descriptions such as people with uteruses.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's out now.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's out.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Although there is not universal agreement on use of the term birthing parent,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: it may be used for clarity in the context where simply using parent could be
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: confusing or too vague.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: People with uteruses are out?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: What is it supposed to be?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uteride people?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love the way they say in context, we're simply using parent could be confusing or too vague.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can say birthing parent, but you can't, you can't say woman or mother.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: They literally say like,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: they grant that in some rare cases,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: like studies involving only cisgender people,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: you're allowed to say pregnant woman,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: man,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: and father,
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: But otherwise,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: the American Medical Association,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: this very old,
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: fairly stodgy group,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: is saying you shouldn't use terms like pregnant woman and man and father.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's insane and it's not how people talk.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Birthing parent makes sense in one context,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: and that's in lesbian couples where you don't know who gave birth.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's no other reason to use that.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you could also just say like the biological mother.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: That would also make sense.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: so yeah i think this is all pretty bad i'm glad there's pushback to it i do think
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: gender as a subject and gender identity makes people go crazy because it's like
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: trollish like it's almost designed not to make sense so you need to be careful not
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: to overdose on gender it's sort of like fentanyl at this point or golden gooses or
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: golden gooses all right should we cover it and shit should we move on to today's
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: main story let's do it katie what do you know about accessibility in gaming
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely nothing.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wait,
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think I one time accidentally set my computer so that it was like on accessible
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: mode and every time I type something it would read it out.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I know.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever done that?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Very annoying.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've made random tweaks to it.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: So accessibility in gaming is basically this question of how to make sure people
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: with disabilities can enjoy video games.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: and it includes legitimate issues,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: like there should be captions as an option for people who are deaf if characters
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: are speaking,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: font size,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: quality of life adjustments for people with maybe certain physical difficulties.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: It also sort of gets into the representation stuff a little bit,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: like having characters of different races.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of social justice causes, there's perfectly reasonable stuff.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Who's going to argue against having captions in games?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: You'd have to be a little bit of a jerk.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: J.D.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Vance probably would.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: J.D.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Vance probably would.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's also gonzo stuff, especially with...
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: triggers like there's a people get obsessed with like you know if i see a spider in
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: a video game i'll have a panic attack i need to be warned before i see a spider so
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: it's a mix of like normal reasonable stuff and then a fringe there's a little bit
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: of that gentrification of disability freddie deborah talks about where like
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: privileged people focus on really weird shit okay so this is a story about the
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: world of games accessibility and there's a cast of characters i'm going to
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: introduce one at a time first one is susan banks
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Prominent online advocate in the accessibility community,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: she was a gamer who was deaf,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Muslim,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: queer,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: disabled,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: schizophrenic,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: victimized by racism and multiple strokes,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: not to mention oppression in Turkey,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: which appears to be her native land before she escaped.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is a remarkably accomplished woman.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Her prior jobs included,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: according to IGN,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: which is a video game website,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: quote,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: being a professional model.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: an asset manager at a financial firm,
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: and a professor of deaf studies at Gallaudet University,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: the leading university for deaf and hard of hearing individuals in the United States,
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: all before the age of 30.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that sounds like bullshit, but also very impressive if true.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's dealt with some rough and dehumanizing stuff.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like read this one tweet from her.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Had to fill out a form at a new doctor that for some reason asked about my race.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: I selected other and wrote Arab like I always do and the receptionist wanted to argue with me.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Honey, I think you checked the wrong box.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're Caucasian.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think I fucking know where I was born, no?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that unbelievable that she experienced that?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's literally unbelievable.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I thought Turks are definitely not Arab.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: So if she was born in Turkey, I don't know why she's calling herself an Arab.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: here's a snippet from an article she published under her online name,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Odd Gamer Girl,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: which was also her Twitter handle back in the day.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: This was 2017.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Will you read this?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I won't lie,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Courtney and I haven't been keeping up with reviews like we should because I
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: haven't been doing well.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Being a disabled,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: deaf,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: immigrant,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Muslim woman living here has finally worn me down into having some why-even-bother
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: pity parties.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Being the mother of a black son,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: who I'm eventually going to have to tell,
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: probably sooner rather than later,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: that to many in this country,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: he is always going to be wrong no matter what he does.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Protest things, not protest things, have opinion on things because of his skin color, given...
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Given the reactions I've seen from people regarding the NFL taking the knee issue
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: has worn me down to not even wanting to participate in the world.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is like the opposite of a profile like her, all of her accomplishments.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is the opposite of a profile for an actual gamer.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And who's this Courtney person?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get back to Courtney.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: The point is, Katie, you should feel very sorry for Susan.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: She clearly been through some stuff as a disabled,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: deaf,
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: immigrant Muslim woman with schizophrenia and a black son.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And yet, huh?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're not a good person.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm about to make you feel worse because her luck would take a turn for the even darker.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Susan died of a stroke in 2019, Katie.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: God damn it.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Fucking monster.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Got me.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah,
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: in this article in IGN by Grant Stoner,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: that's the name of the writer,
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: he writes,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Banks' death marked a significant loss for the video game accessibility community.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: She regularly interacted with developers from studios like Ubisoft and The Coalition,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: pushing for better options and designs.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: She helped to revolutionize games journalism through the creation of Can I Play That?,
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: a site dedicated to the coverage of accessibility in the disabled perspective.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: An award was even named after her posthumously to be given to disabled individuals
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: in games that uplift their communities and educate others on the importance of accessibility.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Katie,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: read this tweet from an established accessibility in gaming charity called Able
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Gamers Charity from March 5th,
• 23:17
  2019.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: It is with the deepest of sadness that we say goodbye to one of our own,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: our friend and ally in the fight for game accessibility.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Susan can't play it.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Susan was a force in our industry and will be sorely missed.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Her life mission will continue on through.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's a link to a GoFundMe.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a GoFundMe to this site she co-founded that we will return to shortly.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: There's another minor account that mourned her passing.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to read the tweet because I'm not trying to draw attention to them.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to read their bio for you to get your thoughts.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Gamer, nerd, furry, game accessibility loudmouth, Eberron junkie, polyam, gender fluid.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's a period after all these.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Pansexual, gray ace.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: These have commas.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: DID, BPD, HSP, ADD, heads, lowercase H-E-D-S, MCAS, POTS, and more.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And more, like a cheerful exclamation mark.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: How many of those mental illnesses have you heard of?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, DID, that's dissociative identity disorder.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's the rebranding of multiple personalities.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Fake.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's bipolar disorder.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: HSP, I don't know that one.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: BPD, I think, is borderline personality disorder.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, borderline.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Which is definitely real.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's real.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: This person definitely has it.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: HSP, that one I don't know.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Me neither.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we're two of three.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: ADD, we know.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: ADD, got that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Three of four.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Heads?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Heads.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let me type it.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I bet that's Ehlers-Danlos.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good call.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Heads.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Hypermobile.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Which is real.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, that's a real thing, but also it's something that people fake.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: MCAS is a standardized test in Massachusetts, I think, but it's also mass cell activation syndrome.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Never heard of it.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: POTS.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: POTS.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: That one I've heard of.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: What is that?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: POTS disease.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see here.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's a heart thing, right?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's when you,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: it causes a number of symptoms when you transition from lying down to standing up,
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: including fast heart rate.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: I have that too when I stand up too quickly.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: A version of it.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: I should put that in my, hold on, let me put that in my Twitter profile.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Me too, I'm doing it right now.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're standing up quickly?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, I would never do that.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do that.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Then I'll have to lie back down and that's going to make me have double pots.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry for that disrespectful digression.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Katie, describe this screenshot I took showing what a big deal Susan Banks' death was to certain people.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's a stage.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's two people standing at like a lectern thing.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Picture of her.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can't read the text.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: I also have aging eyes.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Aging eye syndrome, AGS.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'll read it.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is from the Game Accessibility Conference.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's an annual conference.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: We opened this year's conference with a dedication to Susan Can't Play It, led by Ian Hamilton.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Love and thanks for how far you helped us come.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: We miss you.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: So Ian Hamilton appears to be a mainstream accessibility specialist.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And there he is at a conference giving a eulogy to Susan Banks, who clearly touched some lives.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, RIP Susan.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we talking about her?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: You'll see.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So there's some evidence that she became a bigger deal after she died than when she was alive.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: But either way,
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: that's our first character and the only dead character of the characters I'm about
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: to introduce.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Susan Banks,
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: the late deaf,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: queer,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: disabled,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: schizophrenic Muslim gamer with a black son who escaped from Turkey despite being Arabic.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe she's a refugee.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And who split her time between being a model,
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: a professor,
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: an asset manager,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: and an accessibility advocate.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're with me so far.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you laughing?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand why you would laugh at a woman who's been through all this shit.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so accomplished.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever even been a Muslim gamer?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: This is like the 2024 version of my girlfriend in Canada who's also a model.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: She's queer, deaf, disabled, schizophrenic, and dead.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're already like a half hour in.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Should we do housekeeping now?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's do it.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: You do it.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: We are a podcast.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is Blocked and Reported.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: You can reach out to us at blockedandreportedpodcast at gmail.com.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: But don't do it unless you have something like very important to say or you have a
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: great story to pitch us.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that fair?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let's try to limit the number of emails we're getting.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a dickish thing to say to what has become a large and loyal audience
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: that pays to see us in person.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: I disagree.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: You should email us for any reason.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no, no.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Look, we both have books due in 30 days.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just for the next month, only email us if you have... Fewer emails.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fewer emails.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: If it's like a really good story idea.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, great story ideas, always welcome.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Bad story ideas, keep it to yourself.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: What else?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, wait, here's a good threshold.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to read this one more time.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: deaf okay dead deaf queer disabled schizophrenic muslim gamer with a black son
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: that's eight uh axes of oppression including being dead send that one no you need
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: at least five of those if you're gonna send a historian so if someone is just dead
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: deaf queer and schizophrenic no not interested especially if they're white and cis
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: we don't care about that fuck off yeah
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: What else?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're on Reddit.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Find that if you can.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to try to figure out what the address is.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: We have a month until these books are due.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of brain space being taken up with other stuff right now.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Blockedandreported.reddit.com.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Jesse,
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: do you feel like I've like,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: since I jumped into the book game so late,
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: do you feel like I'm sort of like colonizing book stress?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're like,
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: if someone started lifting weights on Monday and then on Thursday they talked about,
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: man,
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: this is really changing my life.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so sore and acting like I've been doing it a while.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're a Katie come lately.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: I really am.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that my book is going to do so much better than yours is, that must be really hard.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: But look,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want my book to sell a million copies,
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: but A,
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be happy for you because you're my friend,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: which is,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: you should look that up sometime.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: B, self-help books, I think...
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: A well-selling self-help book will sell its ass off.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: So did you consider maybe instead of spending four years working on the book that you're working on?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Will make people hate me.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Will make people hate you.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: You could have spent four months working on a self-help book.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did you consider that possibility?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: me doing self-help what aspect have i improved myself do i really seem like someone
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: who should be giving self-help either anybody can do self-help it turns out you're
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: not blackout drunk now so and that's what you think okay also as we speak i'm
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: putting a link to the richard dawkins tickets uh they may sell out according to the
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: ticket website so that's definitely true jesse and should i just say jesse and dick
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: will people get it
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Just put it in the show notes.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'll reword that.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, leave it as is.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then please rate and review.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're derailing my housekeeping.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is my job today.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Finish it.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Rate and review.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if you rate and review us.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Jesse cares about that.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, no, no.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: You care about it because you love money.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that is how we make more money by growing our audience.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I actually disagree with that.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: What am I going to do with more money?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Am I going to buy some golden gooses?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe move somewhere where it's not... You have the exact perfect amount of money.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Where you live now, getting to New York takes 36 hours.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: A day.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what you're going to do with the movie.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: I actually just have to walk there.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's easier.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: most importantly,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: speaking of money,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: if you join us at blockedandreported.org for just $5 a month and up,
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: you can become a premium subscriber,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: a primo,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: one of our cousins,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: one of our preemies.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: You get twice as many episodes a month.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: You get your episodes early and ad-free.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Twice as many.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: You like that?
• 30:37
  40%.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think it's... No, no, no, no.
• 30:39
  80%.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like 80% more.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think it's... Not quite 100% more.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's twice as many.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's three and a half more per month.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's 100% more.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you also get access to our fantastic community.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot say enough positive things about this community.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Two of our members are getting fucking married.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're getting married.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: It is crazy.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: We only have one asshole in this community.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we're going to let him stay.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: He popped back up.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: He popped back up.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: He today he was in the comments today.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: He was he's convinced that I'm going to vote for Donald Trump.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I encouraged him to stake a large amount of money on that.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then after somebody somebody like bet this guy, you know who I'm talking about.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is what you put.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you literally feeding the troll?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, I want him to bet a large amount of money on this.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: He is convinced.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: He keeps talking about this.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: He is predicting that I'm going to vote for Donald Trump.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I just think that he should stake a large amount.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, put your money where your mouth is, dude.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Put a large amount of money on this.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then after the election, I'll show my ballot.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I can't.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows who I'm going to vote for?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I've said it a million times.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you'd have to video yourself voting or if it's a mail-in ballot.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: You'd have to like you need concrete, concrete proof.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: I live in Washington state.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's a mail-in ballot.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is, we had that one run-in with the actual Nazi.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And compared to the actual Nazi, this guy is just an annoying run-of-the-mill dick.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we're going to let him stay.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: But overall, it's an amazing community.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Every community needs a heel.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I had no run-ins with a Nazi.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't actually believe the Nazi existed.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think that you created this out of your addled Jewish mind.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I never saw it.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: I never saw the Nazi.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Was it Jake Shields?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: He wouldn't give us money.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: He's too dumb to find his wallet.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, who's Jake Shields?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Jake Shields is the boxer who tweeted yesterday.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm sorry.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: He tweeted yesterday.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just read you this.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: woody allen has two adopted children first of all false one accused him of
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: molesting her when she was seven and he became married to the other one after she
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: became legal also false he went on to win numerous awards and was never ostracized
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: from hollywood and then and then one of the responders is like why does no one ever
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: talk about this
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I Googled this.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I Googled Woody Allen.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: I looked it up on the Google News tab.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: The most recent four stories are all about Woody Allen being shunned in Hollywood.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Why does nobody talk about it?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever heard of this guy, Woody Allen?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Also, he didn't do it.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can go back and listen to our multiple Woody Allen episodes if you're curious about that whole saga.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Jake Shields, stupid fucking motherfucker.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: okay so that was housekeeping uh should we move on oh wait do you know do you know
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: why he thinks that we never talk about woody allen why because he's jewish yes
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: right because jews would never criticize other jews right and then and then today
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: he tweeted numerous people are alleging that this tweet is anti-semitic despite me
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: making no mention of his his ethnicity it's amazing how members of the tribe always
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: stick together tribe is capital
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're much more affected by this anti-Semitism than I am.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Then someone else writes, Hollywood idolizes such acts along with Jews.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't mention it in the tweet, but he happens to be Jewish like most Hollywood pedos.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Has Jake Shields ever heard of Catholics?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or Muslims for that case.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that was housekeeping.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Join the thing, blockchainreported.org.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Twice as many episodes, early and ad free.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a while.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a while.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember the name of the first character in this story?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Susan Banks.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, fuck.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot one thing.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: I need to come clean about something.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Jeff Maurer,
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: when he filled in for his host,
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: he rattled off this perfect housekeeping and I was so impressed.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: He later revealed to me he had written it down beforehand because I knew I was going to ask.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Banned from the show.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Banned from the show.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Stolen valor.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Plagiarist.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Plagiarist.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: He plagiarized us reading it.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: He wrote it down and then he wrote it back.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: That is the definition of plagiarism.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't it?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's definitely.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the first character, Susan Banks.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Second character, Cody Craven, C-O-T-Y Craven.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, Craven is her last name.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Cody Craven was Susan Banks' romantic partner at one time.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's an article about how they met in an online outlet called Pride Source.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's titled Meet the Non-Binary Michigan Powerhouse,
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: who is revolutionizing gaming for the disabled community.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: So who is non-binary?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's about Cody Craven,
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: except at this time,
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Cody Craven was Courtney Craven and used they,
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: them pronouns.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: So at the time they identified as non-binary, they were born female.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now they apparently identify as a trans man named Cody Craven.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: We'll stick to Cody Craven.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: And Cody is spelled C-O-T-Y, like Cootie Craven?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like Cootie Craven, but with just one O. Katie, read this bit.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: After graduating from Clarkston High School,
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Craven found in-person college classes at Oakland University impossible to navigate
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: because of neurological complications from lupus.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, they fell into a series of low-paying jobs.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: While cleaning out stalls, Craven got kicked in the head by a horse.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you laughing?
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: funny like it's like a pratfall like someone getting you know like you don't mean
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: to laugh but then all of a sudden that shit's dangerous people die from getting
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: kicked in the head by horses yeah and wouldn't that be funny if like especially for
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: you if your obit was like he got kicked we would all know what was going on there
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: uh they they lost hearing in one ear and then after a bout of west nile meningitis
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: lost partial hearing and the other god these people have horrible luck
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Dot, dot, dot.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Continuing,
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Susan Banks,
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: a wealthy deaf woman who adored video games,
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: lived in a brownstone in Chicago's Lincoln Park neighborhood with her Boston Terrier,
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Craven,
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: who'd taken sign language in high school,
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: got the job.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Got the job doing what?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Dog walking.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: So perhaps because they had so much in common...
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Craven happened to have gone deaf and happened to have taken sign language in high school.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Susan Banks and Craven, they hit it off and they become an item.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Shortly after their introduction,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: explains IGN,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Craven announced to friends and family on social media,
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: as one does,
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: that the two had entered a romantic relationship.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Cody Craven was there during a really difficult period of Susan Banks' already trauma-filled life.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because she had a Boston Terrier?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're horrible dogs.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's the main thing.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: And all schizophrenia, Muslim, all that stuff.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: All that compels in comparison to having a Boston Terrier.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever spent time?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: They fart.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: They snort.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: They just should not exist.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Smash.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Brachyphilic dogs.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Smash face dogs should not exist.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're about to feel like a jerk again for not putting things in the proper perspective.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Within months of the meeting, Craven said that Susan dropped a KitchenAid mixer on her foot.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's why she's fucking heavy.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: She was rushed to the hospital and first one leg was amputated and then the other.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you laughing?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was kidding.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: I said she lost the foot.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was kidding.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's literally what happened.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're laughing at this...
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: deaf disabled schizophrenic muslim woman who dropped the kitchen aid i don't you're
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: a terrible person so we'll get back to that terrible unbelievable moment later
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: where she lost both legs because she dropped the kid emphasis on unbelievable okay
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: sorry go ahead why are you doubting people's lived experience can you imagine
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: losing both your legs in a kitchen aid accident one makes sense both no
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: The key point for now is that Craven was there with Susan Banks as Banks became
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: this somewhat well-known and influential figure within the small world of games
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: accessibility a few years later.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, after they met in Chicago, after her legs were removed.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Cody, don't laugh at amputees.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the way that you put it.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Her legs were removed.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a passive twist off.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: um cody helped her start this this website can i play that quote banks advocacy
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: became the subject of numerous stories from stories and digital trends to a
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: spotlight posted by able gamers all interviews with banks were conducted the same
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: way through email or private messages on x twitter or facilitated by craven you
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: think that's a red flag jesse i don't actually like if you're i mean they're deaf
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: so yeah the ign story points out that if you're deaf that's often the best way to
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: do an interview there are like um
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: audio and video meeting software that have produced real-time captions but it's
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: just wonky and inaccurate yeah that seems reasonable i mean obviously it's easier
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: to get burned when you can't see someone's face and know that they actually exist
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: or who they that they are who they say they are yeah um but especially yeah i think
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: especially when um when someone is
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would have done the same thing.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: so according to IGN,
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: it's really Susan Banks who's like doing the work here and Cody Craven is just like cheerleading,
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: managing it and walking the dog.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, it's Susan who lost the legs, not Cody, right?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Susan who lost the legs.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so obviously she definitely needs a dog walker.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not walking the dog, yeah.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: She could wheel the dog.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Wheel the dog, yeah.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's the impression I get of the relationship at the time.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Banks is becoming this minor figure in this niche world.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Craven is helping to facilitate her interviews,
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: frequently interacting with her,
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: and talking about her work on social media.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's Craven who announces Banks dies of...
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: not her first stroke in 2019.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: She's already had strokes by then.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Then this occurs not long after Banks set up a GoFundMe to help raise money for
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: their site,
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: Can I Play That?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: This related to their shared passion for accessibility and gaming.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Fortunately, it looks like they only raised $1,300.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: But due to his prior association with Susan Banks,
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: after her death,
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Cody Craven himself was able to make a mark on the accessibility world.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, I thought Cody was a they-them.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, he had been a they-them, but then he's a trans man as of now and as of this IGN story.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, gotcha.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: So IGN puts it this way, quote,
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is a somewhat complicated story, but you get it, right?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Susan Banks is like the more accomplished of the two,
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: but then she dies and Cody Craven is able to gain some mileage,
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: frankly,
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: out of his association with the dead person.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: She's a legless model,
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: a legless schizophrenic model who died not after the KitchenAid fell on her foot,
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: but after her multiple strokes.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously got it.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: And she actually did die doing what she loved, working on a video game review.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's nice.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so here's what Cody Craven wrote.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you laughing?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was something else.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: I wish Jeff was back.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Jeff was a plagiarist, but at least he cared about people.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody just sent me a really funny text.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not laughing at the people involved.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: The text was super funny.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a picture of shoes.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: What was it?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Golden Gooses.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're $17,000.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, $17,000?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is this real?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not real.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, damn it.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: This will make you feel bad again.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what Cody Craven said about Susan Banks.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: You keep
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: saying that as though i feel that just doesn't work here's what he said about his
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: beloved uh late partner in an online tribute he wrote susan and i were two halves
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: of a whole she built up she built up parts of me that i never believed could exist
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: and nurtured the things in me that so many others had always thrown away she and i
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: were a team an inseparable pair dot dot dot where susan was the personality
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: everyone wanted to know i was more of a silent partner staying out of the social
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: spotlight and rarely interacting with our community and choosing instead to write
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: our content and maintain our site
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that sweet, Katie, that they were two halves of a whole, even if it didn't end up well?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's how I think of us.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of gay.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, third character, Tubi Hameed, aka at Tugboat Hameed on Twitter and Medium.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is actually Susan Banks' sister.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you guessed it, another romantic partner of Cody Craven's.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, before or after the death?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Was this like a poly situation?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Significantly after the death.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this is more like a Hunter Biden situation.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: yeah yeah cody cody fucked his dead partners also deaf and disabled wife to be
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: hamid also to me it's interesting that someone's who maybe this is explained
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: somewhere one sister is named susan banks the other is named to be to be hamid
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: different fathers maybe i don't know you're gonna tell me that kobe created craven
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: fucking murder both these women aren't you
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the IGN story cites this woman,
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Kate Sanchez,
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: who co-founded a site called But Why,
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: though,
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: and basically said that when they interacted with Hamid,
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: it helped them get a more diverse perspective.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Quote, I had interactions with Tubi quite a bit on Twitter, always around race and disability as well.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've been very vocal about the importance of including non-white people in the
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: disability and accessibility space,
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: and Tubi would often have the same views or echo them.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Dot, dot, dot.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is just IGN.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: In 2021,
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Can I Play That ran a story with Hamid's byline published and edited by Craven,
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: detailing her experience as a deaf person of color in the gaming industry.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: The story details her connection with banks and even advertises Craven's work and business ventures.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: That year, her story was nominated for the Best Journalism Award by the Game Accessibility Conference.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: so it's the same general pattern you saw with Cody Craven and Tubi Hamid that you
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: saw with Susan Banks.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: You have this disabled person of color breaking into this accessibility industry
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: and you have Craven sort of behind the scenes helping manage him and so on.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: But they were real life partners.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Craven once tweeted,
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting here watching at tugboat Hamid play Horizon Zero Dawn for the first time.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Greatly appreciating seeing all the first time joys and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's Tubi Hamid.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let me introduce the final character.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: You ready?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Deb Vaughn.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Deb Vaughn was another one-time romantic partner of Cody Craven's.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll let her... I know, this dude.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'll let her introduce herself through a Discord screenshot from 2023.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Katie, please read this.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Devon.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is a, the avatar is, looks like a black woman.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of y'all know each other from games,
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: accessibility stuff,
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: but I wanted to introduce myself because I don't do social media.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Deb Cody's partner.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a therapist.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm helping out with tag stuff, lending my deaf and black perspectives to pulling tags from games.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's a, um, an African American, a female African American raising hand emoji.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Can we say African American still?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's black.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: As long as you pronounce it with a capitalized B.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: okay gotcha and i'll explain so lowercase african-american uppercase black b i'll
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: explain what what tag stuff means but um again craven would post a lot about the
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: relationship including text messages between the two let's do a dramatic reading of
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: a text message that craven posted of them going back and forth okay um who do you
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: want me to be um you be the black woman can you do like a black woman voice
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: The neighbor left a note on the door asking us to please move the bed away from the
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: wall if we're going to keep banging the headboard against it.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: What in the world is happening in the bedroom?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, don't.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do it.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do it?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: You just told me to do it.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do it.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or do an Irish accent.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do an Irish accent.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I'm not going to do the accent, but I just wanted you to know I'm shaking my head.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like waggling my head right now.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: What the fuck?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even in the bedroom.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: My God, it's Tali.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: She's been in there humping the pillows and no one would ever believe.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry, dude.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: That was my dog.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: Pack your shit.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: We need to move out of the country.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's cute.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of crying, laughing emojis.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: They seem to have a really fun time together now.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you and Jana send yourself texts like this?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: All the time.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: About moose humping stuff?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: What's for dinner?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Why didn't you make dinner yet?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Can you make dinner?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Bitch, where's my dinner?
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: She's very abusive to me.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Deb Vaughn 2.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: Vaughn catches on to the accessibility world.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Katie, please read this short bit again from IGN.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Vaughn was instrumental with the creation of Craven's latest venture,
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: the Game Content Triggers Database,
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: a source that volunteers and developers can use to display potentially triggering themes,
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: scenes,
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: or objects in games.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Her presence in the industry is relatively isolated to her medium page and activity
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: within the database Discord server.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like the previous two partners,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: stories about representation were crucial to Vaughn's work in the industry.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, the game content triggers database appears to be offline.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to pull up.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: I found an archive of it.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, I wanted to use it for when I'm playing woodblock.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Katie, please respectfully read the following.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a trigger warning to anyone who doesn't want to be exposed to a list of
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: categories of trigger warnings.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Triggers,
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: animals and wildlife,
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: community content,
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: crime,
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: death and loss,
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: diaspora,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: disturbing sounds and sound design,
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: drugs and alcohol,
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: financial and resource management,
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: genocide,
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: gore,
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: hate and discrimination,
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: horror themes,
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: kink and BDSM,
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: law enforcement,
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: LGBTQ,
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: mental health.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think LGBTQ is a very funny trigger and I actually feel triggered by LGBTQ people all the time.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: I like how financial and resource management is right next to genocide.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's too possible.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this is like such a good way to make people more mentally ill to just
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: obsessively catalog games for things that might upset you.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not, it's not healthy.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: So this discord that Craven and Deb Vaughn were on about, you know, trigger warnings, um,
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: In it,
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Deb Vaughn's post,
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: quote,
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: extensively explore topics like mental health themes in games,
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: racism,
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: the disabled experience as a deaf person of color,
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: and more recently,
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: experiencing life while receiving intense cancer treatments for stage 3B colorectal cancer.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Damn.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: Life is tough.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Devlon also did some longer-form writing that apparently people found quite touching.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: One example is this piece about Marvel's Spider-Man 2.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just... I can't even describe it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: It has something to do with Miles Morales and, like, black disabled people.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um...
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: quote,
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: this story attracted the attention of a senior designer at Insomniac Games who
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: worked on the creation of Haley,
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: one of the characters from Spider-Man 2,
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: and wanted to show his appreciation by leaving a comment.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Insomniac Games is a really big studio.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to imagine how excited Deb Vaughn must have been when she gets this comment.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: It read,
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a senior designer here at Insomniac,
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: and your article was just shared with myself and others here who worked on Haley.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: Reading your article brought literal tears to my eyes.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that you felt seen.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: When we were creating Kaylee, it was always from a perspective of, you know what?
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: She needs her shine, too.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Blah, blah, blah.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine if you're just some gamer chick and you write about a character and one of
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: the people who helped create that character.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Gamer chick?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: Jessie.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Deb Vaughn.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: She's also commented by the editor of a medium gaming site called Crossplay,
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: and she's invited to be a contributor there.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: So she was starting to make a name for herself as a writer.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's get back to Cody for a minute.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: A pretty big moment in any relationship is when you meet your significant other's parents.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Cody ended up writing about his experience meeting Deb's 96-year-old mom, Bess.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: How old is Deb supposed to be?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like 70?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: Katie, come on.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm serious.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't make any sense.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: 96-year-old mom.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean it doesn't?
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: This all makes perfect sense.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, sure.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, you're right.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: In this story,
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Cody explains that one of the first things that happens is that Cody's dog grabs
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: Bess's wig,
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: this 96-year-old woman's wig,
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: and starts running around the room with it.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: Humping it?
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Probably humping it.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily,
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: things get back on track when Cody introduces this 96-year-old woman to Breath of
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: the Wild,
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: a mega popular Zelda game.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: She loves it.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: It just makes her super happy.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: And Cody Craven writes movingly about it.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: The piece ends with this quote from Bess herself.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: Katie, read this 96 or 97-year-old, maybe by then, her post about Zelda.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do an elderly black woman accent, please.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've been spending more time outside.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: To be clear, this is a southern accent.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is not any particular race.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: You just said do an elderly black woman accent.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, I said do a southern accent.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just do it.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've been spending more time outside after I play this,
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: making me notice things I didn't before,
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: little things I would mostly ignore.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like a white southern belle.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't see race.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think most folks feel at their everyday surroundings.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hell, some folks don't even like them.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm playing with Link and he finds all these things in the world that help him keep going.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I cut the grass with his sword, there's crickets I can use.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: Look up in the trees and there's puzzles to give you those little seeds.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: now I'm outside at my house looking at all the same things and wondering what's
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: under this tall grass.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: What's up top of that tree?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm 96.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: What's up at the top of that tree?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to make yourself less educated.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 96.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I ain't climbing no trees, but I can still wonder.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I'm liking outside more than I thought I did from this game.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: Katie, who does not love a post about a 96-year-old woman discovering Breath of the Wild?
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: IGN writes that that post got 596,000 views, 12,000 likes, roughly 3,000 reposts, and 23 comments.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you snorting?
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: because i know a woman who is about 96 years old and like she has the energy to
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: like drink one beer a day there's no way that like the hands of a 96 year old woman
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: unless you're joan rivers to be clear cody said he had to help her chloe had to
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: help her with some stuff okay never mind no i believe well you're gonna once again
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: you're gonna feel like a dick because you don't have i do not i never feel like a
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: dick i have not felt like a dick once during this story anyway go ahead
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: katie best died this woman you're ridiculing oh my god died and cody craven
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: reposted his article about her when she died so those are the four characters well
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: jesse she she lived a good life she did 96 years old she discovered zelda right at
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: the end but before becoming a weirdo about it okay those are the four characters
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: susan banks cody craven suzy bank sister to be to be hamid and deb vaughn
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Except here's one thing, Katie, one little thing.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: Look at this photo of Deb Vaughn.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what's this from?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: Her profile pic?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is from her profile.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: From Discord?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe Twitter or texting, I believe.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now look at this stock photo of a black bottle.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so she's a model.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: She's also a model.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's the twist.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: It appears that nobody in this story exists except for Cody Craven.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: I am shocked.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: There were no clues along the way.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: You are kidding me.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't see this one coming.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's every indication that he fabricated not one,
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: not two,
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: but three romantic partners who were disabled person of color gamer girls.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: And Cody Craven, what do we know about the person who was using that name?
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we know some crazy stuff.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: But first,
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: just what's interesting is that Cody got caught because he flew a little bit too
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: close to the sun.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Remember the KitchenAid thing?
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: How could I forget?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Remind everyone what happened.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Susan Banks dropped a KitchenAid mixer.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Very heavy.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Jana has one of those on her foot.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: I do too, actually.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: No way.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Although Megan, was it Megan McArdle or Caitlin Flanagan?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe I'm mixing them up.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: One of them said on Twitter, don't buy this.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're just never going to use it.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what happened?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway,
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: her KitchenAid that she also probably never used because she didn't exist fell on
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: her feet on one foot,
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: but she went to the hospital and both legs got amputated.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: Was it one of these cases where the infection moved from one leg to the other?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: Was it like a BOGO, like a buy one, get one?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or did the hospital- Buy one, get one.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, you're saying that the doctors are like, we have a special deal.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: We'll throw in a second amputation for free.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know how hard it is to have one leg amputated, Jesse?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're off balance.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Also, this is ladies night at the hospital.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: So all female amputations are half off.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that seems possible.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe the doctor accidentally cut off the wrong leg and then just went ahead and
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: did them both just to make up for it.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever it was,
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: IGN explains that this anonymous source who was in or around the accessibility
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: community began to get suspicious,
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: partly because they tried to send flowers or a note to Susan Banks and they were
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: not at the hospital Cody said they were at.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: No one by that name.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: They end up hiring a private investigator who...
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: very very quickly i will add comes back and is like there's clearly no such person
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: as this oh that's amazing that is great i love that i love that somebody like
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: invested the fucking time every and like the private investigator who got that job
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: oh this whole thing is great and when did all of this happen this was like a good
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: number of years ago i there's so many points in this story i think they met in 2015
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: in this lore susan banks and cody
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: whatever the fuck his name is um uh and then maybe 2017 2018 and then she dies in
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: 2019 so this was a while ago and it was around her death that this person became
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: suspicious but it's too bad that that he killed her off before covid because that
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: would have been a really convenient way to die i think he killed her off right
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: after launching that crowdfunder for their site i think that was why yeah um but i
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: think people some people knew something was up and i think they were just scared to
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: make such an impolite accusation because like
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: you don't you don't exist literally it's invalidating is what it is you are erasing
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: me by claim I don't exist so part of the story involves IGDA or the International
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Game Developers Association they run that conference the game accessibility
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: conference in 2021 they presented an award in Susan Banks name the one you saw the
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: screenshot of yeah you saw the screenshot of this earlier this is an important bit
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: so I'm gonna make you read one more bit wait wait when did this person hire the
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: private investigator
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: That would have been around 2019 when Susan Banks died.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so even though it was clear that this person didn't exist, the word just didn't spread?
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, yeah.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like, not enough.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: But read this part.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because according to IGN,
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: IGDA got an anonymous email questioning whether Banks had ever existed in 2022
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: after they named an award after her.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: Read this next bit.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: quote,
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: my thoughts were that someone seemed concerned about our community being taken
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: advantage of and that they wanted to let me know,
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: remembers IGDA executive director Dr.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: Joaquin Vela.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's also a fake person.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: After processing the conversation,
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: it seems to me the worst case scenario was that an individual was perhaps
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: progressing accessibility initiatives in conjunction with a pseudonym.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's the worst case scenario.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: I did not see much of a concern there considering how often people receive hate and
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: harassment for advocating for DEI issues in the games industry.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: End quote.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: An IGDA volunteer familiar with the situation explains that when informed of the incident,
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: Craven claimed the questioning was affecting his mental health and wanted to simply
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: remove Banks' name from the award.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Even when offered legal support, Craven wished to forget the situation.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: In December 2022,
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: the award honoring Susan Banks became the Advocacy Award and any mention of Banks' name.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: ceased amazing help my mental health stop questioning me um so cody craven i think
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: a lot more stuff is going to come out about him he allegedly allegedly allegedly
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: allegedly no defamation has a long history of scamming here's a comment from an
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: anonymous ign commenter below the story
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot more to this story that wasn't covered in this article.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Cody also scammed a Chicago dog rescue community between 2010 and 2015 by claiming
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: to have ovarian cancer and MS.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: They also made up a completely fake family involving Susan Tooby and a fake adopted child named Hamilton.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: That must be the black kid.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: There were hundreds of photos shared of this child,
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: which were likely photos of a real child stolen from social media.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: Cody was outed for this in the community in 2014, 2015.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: There has been outreach to the gaming community over the years to inform them that Susan never existed.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hard to believe it's gone on for so long.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: Impressive.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: I would not normally spread random internet comments,
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: but that sounds so similar to what we already know Craven did that I would be
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: surprised if at least elements of that weren't true.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this has been ongoing for a long time.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Why is this coming out now?
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: Why did the IGN article get published now?
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: the story doesn't...
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: It explains a little bit,
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: like what you just wrote,
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: but I thought this was a pretty poorly executed story,
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: actually.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the story,
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: first of all,
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: the bio line for Grant Stoner is Grant Stoner is a disabled journalist covering
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: accessibility and the disabled perspective in video games,
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: blah.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: There are several graphs at the end of the story dedicated to explaining why they
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: told the story,
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: how he's disabled,
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: how disabled people in this accessibility people stick together.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: Very activist-y story.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: It includes this self-aggrandizing language like,
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: quote,
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: reporting on these allegations is no small task,
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: especially when this story highlights multiple prominent advocates within the
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: accessibility and disabled community.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so brave.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: Quote, to even posit the notion that three advocates are allegedly fake is admittedly hard to believe.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking as a disabled individual, writing a story like this is no easy feat.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: Again, congratulations to me.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: A couple of things here.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: It might sound random,
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: but this story reminded me of James Bennett's piece in The Economist about being
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: ousted from the New York Times editorial page.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Part of that piece concerned the question of who should be writing about which communities.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: Bennett says of his time at The Atlantic,
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was starting to see some effects of the new campus politics within The Atlantic.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: A promising new editor had created a digital form for aspiring freelancers to fill out,
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: and she wanted to ask them to disclose their racial and sexual identity.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because,
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: she said,
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: if we were to write about the trans community,
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: we would ask a trans person to write the story.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: There was a good argument for that, I acknowledged, and it sometimes might be the right answer.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: But as I thought about the old people,
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_00: autoworkers and abortion opponents I had learned from,
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: I told her there was also an argument for correspondents who brought an outsider's
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: ignorance along with curiosity and empathy to the story.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: In this case,
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure IGN should have had someone from inside the games accessibility
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: community write this article.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think possibly because of this author's identity and sense of connection with the community,
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: he missed the elephant in the room here.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: Katie, I'm curious if you're thinking of the same elephant as me.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is the elephant that Grant Stoner is Cody Connection, whatever his name is?
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: Cody Connection, no.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: To me, the elephant in the room is...
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: the racial and identity politics where you're favoring and elevating certain people
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: to be writers and advocates just because they say they have some identity with no
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: verification mechanism like i in the disabled community like in the trans community
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: and certain others online it's considered extremely rude to ask for any sort of
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: proof or verification but how many fucking faking controversies have we been
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: through at this point
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's like half of our catalog.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: So like it seems hard.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, it's hard to believe this could happen.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, in 2024, it's very easy to believe this could happen.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as you listed off that fake person's qualifications, I knew that the person was a fake person.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is not hard to believe at all.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny that you called them qualifications when they were all just like
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: disabilities and axes of oppression.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's qualifications.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: Model.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: She was a hot, disabled, legless.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, the other one was, oh yeah, she was legless.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: I can't keep track of who had which leg.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's the part that makes it the most unbelievable is that you're talking about a hot gamer.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like we talked about the hot physicist in Three Body Problem.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that I thought he missed,
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: Grant Stoner,
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: that this story exposed so dramatically how dumb this idea is that only people from
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: a certain community can or should write about that community.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: Cody Craven appears to be quite white.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm shocked.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: And is almost certainly faking his disabilities.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: No lived experience in most of the stuff he's writing about under these three sock puppet accounts.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: And yet, over and over, I guess because he's...
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: some kind of good writer,
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: he was able to produce work through these apparently non-existent proxies that was
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: so good that leading lights of the community celebrated it.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: So this basically proves that you could just be a white guy and write about this stuff,
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: or a white trans guy at least.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need the lived experience.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think we needed this person to prove this do we know if Cody Craven is in
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: fact male or female this to me this like this this whole thing rings as very female
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: coded to me yeah well I told I said earlier the it's believed that they they're
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: female they used to identify as female then non-binary now they're trans male why
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: is it yeah but you can't believe anything that Cody Craven has written about
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: themselves I thought you're gonna say that a female says what makes you view this
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: as female coded
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's extremely duplicitous.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: I want to point out one more thing before we wrap up.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: Back before they were Cody, Craven at one point was going as CL Craven, still identified as a woman.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_00: She attempted to self-publish a novel.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: Here's how she described it on her website.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: After nearly a decade living in fear of her cruel and violent husband in Istanbul,
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: Mina knows the only chance she has at raising her son to be a good man is to run.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: She gathers her courage and asks her aunt for help.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now Mina must adjust to life in a different country,
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: a different culture with her estranged sister,
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sarah.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: whom she's not seen in 20 years, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the same story about a Muslim woman moving to America and having to adjust and she has a sister.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then this became a real life story.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I bet there's a ton more to uncover about Craven.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: People should email us if you have Cody Craven lore,
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: especially surrounding the dog stuff,
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: because that could help us make Katie cry.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: I would never cry over a Boston Terrier.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would never, ever cry over that kind of dog.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, other dogs do.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm guessing there's a long trail of deception and changing identities and fraud surrounding this person.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to learn more.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: I bet that we haven't heard that last of them.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I said earlier that this seemed very female coded to me.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: I take it back.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's female coded.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's also very trans woman coded.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: And gender identity obviously supplants sex.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be either.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: Any other questions, Katie?
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: Who is Cody Craven?
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's my only question.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: Cody Craven.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, Barpod.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: We have some questions for you.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for that, Jesse.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: Fascinating story.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you were critical of Grant Stoner, but Grant, thank you for writing this piece.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think your reporting was very good.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think the reporting was good and it's good that it got out.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just think there's like certain obvious angles Grant should have explored because
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: it was the rules of this community that allowed this to happen.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: That seems important.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_01: Grant left a big hole for you, Jesse.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's gross.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: This has been Blocked and Reported.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: As always,
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: we were produced with help from Jessica,
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: the 80s baby,
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: who pulled some really good stuff for this segment.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Jesse Singleton.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, for games to be truly inclusive, they need to include lying sociopaths.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Katie Herzog.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: And also remember,
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: I will sell you some old-ass ugly shoes that have been shit on by a homeless person
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: for only $500.
• 1:05:38
  Thank you.