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Bonus Patreon Release: Catseye! With Ruthanne Price and Charles A. Bush! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, hey, all you cats and kittens, we'll back to welcome back to the Grand Walk in Lake Show.
• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: We are here for a very kitty-tastic episode today.
• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to have a flurkin great time.
• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so grateful to my friends, Ruth Ann and Charles coming back with me.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: uh we are queers all over this continent and we're gonna have a great time talking about that side today and we're going to begin right now uh let me have you both welcome let me welcome you both here we have you both introduce yourselves to our listeners and uh I want you to tell everyone as you are introducing yourself your name and pronouns where we might know you're from
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And what is your single favorite fact?
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: And also, the thing that maybe annoys you most about your own kitty cats in your own home.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's be good with Charles Bush today, Charles.
• 0:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man, the show.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, thank you so much for having me again.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm so freaking excited.
• 0:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: First I say, so freaking excited to be honest.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't look at excited.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: to be on this spot today.
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, my name is Charles A. Bush, as Chad said, I'm a young adult creator from Philadelphia, my award-winning novel, every variable of us is now available, web books are sold.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so I had, I do have a cat or flerkin, his name is Goose, named after
• 1:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: My favorite thing at Goose is probably he thinks I'm Carol so he's always all my shoulder like no matter what I'm doing he'll just jump on my shoulders and just act like I'm going to take off into the cosmos just like Carol does and I'm like dude I'm not I'm not really Captain Martin why I can break it to you so I love that I love that I love that it does that I think I ate they does the moves uh so I started taking them outside
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: I go outside with them.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: We have a little chair right outside of our door on our patio.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: I just sit with him and he just looks at the squirrels and the birds and believes and everything and just loves being out there.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: But now he's like obsessed with going outside.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: So every time I come in the house, he just sits by the door and just meows, like, hey, take me outside that.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's probably the least thing I hate.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I can't sit with you outside all day.
• 1:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's basically in Philadelphia where it's cold is held right now.
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Fair, fair.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they can be persistent.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Our little kitty cat for us.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I love you also.
• 1:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome Ruth and Price back to the show.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Chad.
• 2:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Charles.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's great to be back with both of you.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Ruth Ann Price, Brennan.
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: She they.
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am a public library outside of Toronto.
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm very distracted because I'm petting my flurkin right now.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: His fur is like all over me.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is my least favorite thing about him is that he chids a lot and I'm allergic.
• 2:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Also he insists on being paid attention to at like the most inconvenient moment like right now But will ignore me all day when I have like free time But now that I'm here trying to do something.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, no, he attention to me.
• 2:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is this is Draco Rodrigo have Minerva.
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: My other least favorite thing about him is that he has a disgusting love affair going on with a blanket That I got for Christmas, which is just gross and he needs just not so Minerva's great.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's off doing her own thing and ignores this completely and that's why she's on the best
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love a good name for a kitty cat.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Lastly, I'm Chad Anderson.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: I use he him pronouns.
• 2:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm kind of a cat person.
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not hugely a cat person.
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like all animals.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love visiting a friend that has like a cat.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we're at my friend, Phillip Cv's birthday party at their partner, Chris C. Porter's house.
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: They have like four cats.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And at a various point in the evening, all four cats like jump up in my lap.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I could call a kitty cat all day, I love it.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then there's that side of cats that are just like their little fucking assholes, right?
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like they just start, they are a little rude little things.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm visiting my sister and her wife a few years back.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like on the air mattress and one of the cats at their house who they have to arrange their entire schedule around by the way.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: They have two cats that don't get along.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they like let one cat have the main part of the house for 12 hours and then they swap it out.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like they'll get up in the night or come home from work to let the cats trade places.
• 3:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, one of the cats climbs on my chest and is per per per week's meal.
• 3:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh my god, you're so sweet and petting.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then the cat promptly vomits on the mattress and leaves the room.
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, dammit.
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is my experience with cats regularly.
• 3:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: I really like them, but also I'm not a huge fan.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like something that will listen to me.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm a dog guy, like I train my dog that cats will, cats do not listen.
• 4:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: They just don't give a shit.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Which I know is like the thing about cats that we love.
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: What makes the two of you cat people?
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: My least favorite thing I don't like about geese because I was I was like rose colored glasses like oh my god goose of the greatest cat in the world He does nothing wrong.
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's bullshit.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm looking right in front of my desk I have all my like hop and action figures and statues there whenever he was by attention I'm like on the couch watching TV playing a video game doing anything that's not remotely given him all my attention He knows he can come on my desk and start and you know
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: nibbling at my figures, and I have a X-23 figure here.
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: She had four claws.
• 4:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: She only has one claw because he keeps eating them and his pisses me off.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's my biggest thing that he does.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: I clearly forgot that.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, but bump goose on that part.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I tried getting my children a cat when they were younger and we named it Lily Potter and we got it from the shelter and she was a little sweetheart, really, truly, but also she would shred plastic.
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everywhere there was plastic and now she would just shred it to pieces and leave whatever was inside the bag everywhere and it got to the point where at one point she ate my in vizilines Which are quite expensive I was like oh you're we have to give you back now like I should go find a new home
• 5:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I will say, I don't know how your cats are worth it.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: But Gustas, listen, we've trained them.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: If I tell him like, you know, come or or stay or sit or something like that, he 100% knows.
• 5:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Sometimes he just ignores me, which pisses me off of you and more because I know he knows not to do something or he knows I told him not to do something.
• 5:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: But he does it anyway because he wants my attention.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: But no, he definitely listens.
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: He knows like he can sit.
• 5:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: He knows when we want him to go certain places or not go certain places.
• 5:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: He fetches, I'll throw him something, say, go get it, bring it and he'll bring it back, you know what I mean?
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: So he, no, he definitely listens.
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: I thought you had some of his known word about cat.
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Not all cats are just ignore it.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of like ash, which ours are.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tars are doesn't listen all the time to ash because they didn't really respect them.
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: But then once you respect them, he's like, okay, I guess I'll do the fire, flamethrower attack because you told me to, you know what I mean?
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: So you got to like build up that trust for them to listen to you.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: The main reason I meet that person is because my wife had cancer.
• 6:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I inherited cats.
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, I am allergic to cats, which I did not know until later.
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you're going to like, you got to like take a pill.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I take react in every day, and then as seasonal allergies kick in alongside, I go with the flow nays as well.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very fraught existence.
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's so interesting to me because my my brother and his girlfriend they have cat and she's allergic as well I'm like what's it what is it about people that are allergic to cat But they're so great that you still want to be in their lives anyways, so I think that speaks a lot to cat well for me It's because I would like to remain married my wife.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's the whole
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a big proponent of like when you bring an animal into your home, you need to give it your best life, right?
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've got a dog, we've got a saltwater fish tank.
• 6:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: God, that saltwater fish tank is stressful sometimes, because the ecosystem is so delicate.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cats are very independent, which I know is one thing people love about them.
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cats knock and shut off of counters and like hunt and things down and like bring in you a dead bird in your house.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like there's a lot of stuff that I just, I couldn't, I couldn't have that in my home, I don't think.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's the clawing of the furniture, like the shredding of the sides of things.
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's where I like, oh,
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can't do it.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Good boost doesn't do any of that.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: He has his like we have so many um, clawing posts and stuff all over the house.
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: So he closed that.
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he doesn't call furniture anything like that.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's really like he wants you to eat my action figures that are worth hundreds of dollars.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's what he rather do with his destruction.
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, and now he doesn't call like all these things are what people told us before we got goose and he does none of those things.
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I maybe he just, he's just a, he's just a clerk and Americans are different than regular cats.
• 7:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but um,
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Who are your favorite fictional cats?
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Non-Marvel, like who are the cats that you love?
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Garfield, of course, a beloved.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I never cared for any of the Garfield films, but the heat cartoon, and especially the old comic strips, are so funny.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's lazy, he's selfish, you just kind of fucking celebrated.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: His inner monologue is always very narcissistic.
• 7:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's very cat.
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I also grew up watching like Heathcliff and like Garfield and friends.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Those were always really fun.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: A normal, normal to cat.
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you guys know that character, I always really love.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do like crook shanks kind of like goose.
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like the cats that are not quite all cats and have something else going on.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So just Hermione's cat is is a very good one.
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: What other cats are there?
• 8:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I don't know.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are there other cats in fiction?
• 8:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: There are all of it.
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: My favorite one is Salem.
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love Sabrina's like Rachel.
• 8:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: I watched it when it was most of Joe and Hart when I was a kid, but not with the one on Netflix recently, but just I just love that version of it so much and Salem doesn't talk in that one, but he's still really cute and he's still a familiar and he still protects Sabrina every way he can.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, love, love Salem.
• 8:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, you have to pick between fictional cats here for just a minute.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to play a game.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Charles, would you take Tom from Tom and Jerry or put some boots from sure?
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a no question right.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: That was a under a lob over the plate.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Ruth, would you take tigger or the pink panther?
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I would take tigger.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's very me.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to destroy your whole house.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: He is definitely going to claw your furniture for sure.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's fine.
• 9:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Charles, would you take Simba or the Cheshire cat from Alice and Wonderland?
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Simba.
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'll take Nile, I'll take Simba.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's fair.
• 9:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Ruth, you can have a Sylvester from Looney Tunes or the cat in the hat.
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll take Sylvester as an act of mercy.
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: If I were to call one troublemaker, so I'll take care of for trouble and Sylvester for care.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's fair.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have a lot of cats on this list.
• 9:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's the aristicats.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's uh, there's different Disney cats from the different, like Figaro and Lucifer and Oliver, right?
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Which are the three names of Gambit's cats in the comics.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Gambit saved some kittens from Sabre to the one time and adopted them.
• 9:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they're named after the Disney cats.
• 9:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Figaro Oliver and Lucifer, if you did not know that, there's a fan.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: How do they know?
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're actually in fans.
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've got the evil ones like sheer con, if we go big cats, we've gotten me out from Pokemon as well as different.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I've got Aslan.
• 10:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: There are all kinds of cats all over the place.
• 10:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Scratchy from itchy and scratchy, knobs from Calvin and Hobb.
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the list goes on and on to the point where there's an entire series of like warrior cats, right?
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I also love that little character Penelope from those old rapy like Peppy The Pew videos, where there's that like black cat who's constantly exasperated by the,
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: guy.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love my gay snaggle pus from from the old like Hannah Barbaric cartoons.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a really long list of cats.
• 10:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like when they make cats villains, cats are often sympathetic and cute and cuddly, but there's something kind of nasty and awful about them at the same time.
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's part of what the appeal is for folks is the balance between the sweet and the scratchy, if you will.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, aren't they known for like, you know, the, the sertivical bond or the, expector gadget villain where the villain's stroke in the cat, you know, deliciously like while they talk about their evil plan, you know what I mean?
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: So like cats are always kind of like, get the shirt out of the stick on those things.
• 10:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, Austin Powers villains like petting the kitty on the pillow.
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, what do you say Ruth?
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, like from Austin Powers as well, right?
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: The, let's, let's true.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I can see the point there are lots of cats in fiction.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: How about if we go, if we zoom it out toward superhero cats?
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Catwoman is obviously on this list, who are the characters that you love that emulate cats in a superhero form?
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Either superhero or supervillain.
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's always secret, right?
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's great.
• 11:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you say T-Grid, it's Tigred, my brain.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's funny.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know, I just read it on a page.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know many like I like I do like cat woman, but I when I think a cat when I don't really think she's like a cat I just think she's a cat burglar and she takes her name from there.
• 11:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not like the hollyberry where, you know She gets bit by cat or some crap and she comes back me out when they clean herself You know, it's like so so bad that movie So I don't I really don't consider her a cat per se like cat side, which we're gonna talk about a little bit I'm trying to think of a hero cat It's better I think some of your brain, but I could list like 40 you guys.
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's crazy
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm interested to hear these this list because I only want to know is what Ruth Angis said and I don't only think I know from that character is here's in the terrible Wonder Woman sequel played by Kristen Wigg and I was like, I don't like this character.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So D and I wasn't even thinking of a DC one.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't say I think there's a Marvel one too.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I was just say I like Felicia Hardy to black hat.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: She's great black cats also.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, but I don't consider her like a cat Her name is just because it's a caterpillar But still names for a cat, right?
• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: The thunder cats by the way is the cat's light in the title and there's a whole bunch of these characters based off even fictional cats Who's your favorite cat woman?
• 12:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's easy, that's Zoe Kravitz, he killed me.
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yep, I have not been to that movie, but I thought she was just unreal, her and the penguin and that movie were just so great.
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have not seen that one, so I'm going to go with Michelle Fiverr.
• 12:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm, great.
• 12:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: So my favorite is always Earth the Kit.
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm also very grateful to Julian to Julie Newmar, who is the kind of the original for the old Batman show.
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I grew up watching that show on reruns and like fucking loved it.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Earth the Kit is my, she lives in my brain.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: That catwoman voice is iconic.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Fun fact, there's an interview when the before the batman came out and there were interviewing Zoe Kravitz if she said actually auditioned for and have the ways for cat woman in the Nolan film and he said like the casting director wouldn't even let me read because they said well we don't want a cat woman that looks like you she's like she's very happy when she got this role because she's kind of always wanted to play it.
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to toss a couple of cat theme heroes at you and let's draw the parallel for just a minute black Panther is based off of the cat the child's opinion.
• 13:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean he's go to black Panthers literally the shit um black Panther.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: I prefer series black Panther a bunch of chalas for a number of reasons.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: I just think she's more interested in the character especially in the MC films.
• 13:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no, I would definitely see that.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know, when he gets into his suit, it's firstly like sure he's like, she's running like a cat upside the ship and Wakanda forever at the end there.
• 14:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like, that's a big, they do things that are a cat like adjacent.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I kind of definitely see them more as cats than like cat woman or black cat.
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so every like big cat has some sort of superhero template, right?
• 14:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a ton of these from like white tiger to to awesome it to Puma like there's all these different characters name for cats.
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's something about like the scratchy.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a link character in the Wolverine world.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's all these, like, scratchy, feline, like, brickly character, sometimes they have healing factors.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: They've got big claws and super senses every time, right?
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Some of Marvel's most favorites are, are like, Hellcat.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, Ruth, how do you a Hellcat fan?
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: One of my all-time favorites?
• 14:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm becoming a Hellcat fan, because I'm going to be on the trial.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I have to... Yes, you are in, in, like, a few weeks, actually.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have a lot more reading to do.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Patsy Walker Hellcat, uh, Greer Nelson, uh, a tiger we mentioned already, uh, here's a couple excellent ones.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't think about much, uh, Charles, what are your opinions on Shadowcat?
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I love Shadowcat.
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Get you fried, right?
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but again, she'd like the name for a cat.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting.
• 15:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: I love, yeah, I love getting fried up.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Based through walls sneak up on people almost like she counts out of the shadows, right?
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Her roof end, you have an opinion on Sabre Tooth.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's iconic, right?
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's not a very nice guy.
• 15:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure I'd want to go to dinner with him, but I might go watch him fight someone.
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so there's a much longer list and we won't spend time because we've just been there forever.
• 15:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then we also have the trope of like the cat deemed pet.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a lot of like, let's give the character a cute kitty cat to come home to, right?
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Recently we had Jason low, and before that now Fuji writing, the Marvel Meow series, in various formats,
• 15:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: where we have all the pets of the superheroes get together.
• 15:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of them don't have powers.
• 15:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a character like Leo and Alpine and like Gambit's three little kitty cats, but some of the more recent ones do.
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Ghost Rider has a cat who has like spirit of vengeance powers.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Speedball, of course, has his little bouncy kinetic cat which has been part of like the Marvel pets of like the pet Avengers lineup.
• 16:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then we've got characters like Flurkins.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is why we were gonna start this episode.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: We considered doing a Flurkin's episode, but I pivoted to Kat's, I guess she's so much more integral to the X-Men universe.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Flurkin's themselves, I find annoying.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I understand the appeal, but I find them annoying.
• 16:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's that recent, the Marvel's film that had like, ermonica, carol, and Kamala, all like fighting.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there was just this like obnoxiously long Flurkin scene with Kat chasing down people and eating them, I'm like, oh my god, this is so much Flurkin.
• 16:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's more Flurkin than I could handle.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was too barbarous, right?
• 16:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, memories from cats.
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And oh yeah, God, we didn't even talk about cats, the musical.
• 16:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, thanks.
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you guys love about Flerkins?
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I guess I should go since I have a tattoo of Goose on me and I also own Goose.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love everything about Thurkins.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love the fact that they're very, they're like non-binary.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: So like Goose in the MCU film is a boy for all types of purposes, but as you just said in the Marvels, he has children and bunch of little kittens, or Flurkins as they are.
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I love that.
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love the fact that he doesn't give a fuck.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: And that was movies like there's one scene I love where in the marbles where he's like Licking his, you know, area down there and and Nick here is like, I goose knocking off, you know, but he's just playing himself.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like he just he just doing his cat.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: like, let them be.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let them be Nick.
• 17:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: But I love the fact that they can they can travel through dimensions and like they're everything their tentacles are like interdimensional travel which is freaking dope that they can store so many things and you know from a tesseract of people like in the marbles uh yeah no they're and I love how kind of like a dog there's so loyal and they're so you know um like territorial of their owners and and
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: you know, their friends like Carol, like they want to protect their friends and go above and be on to make sure they're safe at all times, which is really like indicative of cats and really like too because like goose will follow me anywhere and you'll just sit outside like the bathroom waiting for me, things like that because he's like, I just want to make sure you're safe, make sure that one's doing anything sus out here, though yeah, not a lot of everything about Americans.
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Flurkin seemed to play on the trope of like, it's this cute innocent thing until it opens its fucking mouth.
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then like giant tentacle monsters, like, could the lube pop out?
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you don't know what's gonna happen?
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, up to an including the hairball.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know what's gonna pop out of the cat's mouth with whether it's a bird head or a massive tentacles.
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: A roof head, are you a big flurkin fan?
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you like the flurkins?
• 18:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And because of that very thing, I would much rather that my cat vomit up a bunch of interdimensional tentacles than whatever it is I have to clean off the carpet like every other day.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: They've taken the one like least good thing about cats, and they've turned it into something exciting and new.
• 18:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: What if what if you had to clean up a gigantic mess of tentacles off the carpet?
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, sure.
• 18:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what the territory, right?
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: So cats, I think are largely also about companionship, right?
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like their loyal, their sweet, they imprint on us, they have personalities.
• 19:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love when a cat makes me laugh.
• 19:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is one of my favorite stories to tell, and it's so much funnier if you know my sister.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: My gay sister, Cherie is a little bit autistic, and like very particular, we're living with a roommate in college, the two of us.
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And our roommate had cats.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cherie folds like a fresh pile of laundry sets it on her bed.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: One of the cats is sleeping on the laundry piles, so she leaves it there.
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then later she comes back to put her laundry away.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Cherie does the thing where she loves this smell of fresh laundry.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So she picks up the top shirt and presses it into her face to smell.
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: and the cat had urinated over the show.
• 19:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's just gagging and I laughed until I cried myself.
• 19:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like it was so, so funny.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love a story like that that makes me laugh every time.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think if for those who have not seen the recent animated feature flow, that's amazing.
• 19:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: You incredible.
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe my most favorite animated show I've ever seen.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm 40, so yeah.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: But all about cats and animal life and the way they interact, there's a helplessness to this little cat that's in a name and like his tenacity and his vulnerability it like gives you anxiety, but it's so beautiful definitely recommended either if you have thoughts on flow and then we're finally going to talk about cats I have promise.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Flow was responded.
• 20:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like one of the best movies I've seen in the past couple of years.
• 20:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was absolutely unreal.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Cannot recommend it enough.
• 20:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I second all that.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was absolutely phenomenal.
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: Having a cat or flerkin.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like you said, Chad, I was my anxiety was through the freaking roof in this movie because if for people I don't know, flows about like that.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: And there's a apocalyptic blood that happens.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's a cat, a normal cat, not a Disney cat that can talk and do it, no, it's just a cat and has to survive literally on a planet.
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just all water and it's just like, I don't know how this cat's going to survive.
• 20:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no words in this film.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's all about animals and like huge animation, just it's gorgeous, but there's no words.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of like there's remnants of humans, but no actual people.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's it's a really beautiful film.
• 20:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I really loved it.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I appreciate the fact they didn't do any kind of like cartoony put some like it was just a cat and everything it did was let a cat would do in those situations, which made it more real and authentic even though it was an animated film and there are some fantastic parts towards the end, but you know it was really really well done.
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't recommend it enough.
• 21:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we could also talk about cats in like religion and mythology.
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a huge, huge, huge amount of research that can be done in that space.
• 21:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just look up like Egyptians and cats if you want to find a hint of that.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: There is also a ton of stuff about cats and they're kind of impact on human society.
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Things that are named for cats.
• 21:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: The association between cats and women is also very interesting, which we're going to get into a little bit today.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Ruth, and do you want to talk about what cats and women have in common in a fiction?
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a word, there's the word pussy, which we got to just toss it right away.
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: It one sentence, because that's a big piece of it, too.
• 21:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of interesting ideas about women as cats, so they love you, then they hate you, and they're so confused and flaws, you know, because
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: the temperamentalness and that, that, that, fickleness and I don't want to talk about it because I don't really like it very much.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's problematic.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I interviewed Linda Fight, we back at Marvel's first female writer, who, when Roy Thomas gave her the book The Cat to write.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's like, you know, I'm interviewing her years later, but she's like, oh, great.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like woman dressed like a cat who gets into cat fights, you know, Shannon the sheet doubles lunch at the same time and she's wearing a leopard print bikini and walking around with cats on leashes.
• 22:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like there's there's a huge amount of trope here, right?
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a really interesting idea.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's often quite insulting.
• 22:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I mean, at this point it's just kind of tired, right?
• 22:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's pretty much all I have to say about that.
• 22:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then we come to the character Katzai, who's one of many Kat characters themed across the X-Men line, Saber Tooth is probably the most prominent.
• 22:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai is a woman named Sharon Smith.
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Claire months only names a few characters, Sharon, which is a beloved name to him for personal reasons.
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she's one of the original Helions.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai is originally created as kind of the counter to Wolvesbane.
• 23:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wolvesbane, Rainson Claire, is a Scottish mutant raised by a very tyrannical preacher who later turns out to be her biological father.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's taught very clearly that she's unclean, that she's unfit.
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Her mother was a prostitute.
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's a horrible person who should just hate herself.
• 23:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then when her mutant power manifests, she has like a wolf side, right?
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: She can transition kind of halfway through a human to wolf.
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then she has a full wolf for more recently.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: She can transform into a whole wolf pack, which is crazy to me.
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, she divides up in a like five wolves or something.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: But around in the early years, when she's a teen, she's really wrestling with hating this part of herself.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: She kind of sees the wolf part as the demonic part, the unclean part, the part that she almost doesn't want to give into.
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she forms a kinship with Danny Moonstar who has kind of an animal kinship ability.
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they form a very tight bond as a result.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katza is the parallel to this character Sharon Smith is very similar.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: She has kind of a language kind of violet human form with big eyes that are a little catlike.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: In the way that rain has her short study like red hair, that looks kind of like a wolfpelt a little bit.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sharon talks in kind of very language poetic.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I picture Earthic hit every time in some kind of little cartoony
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, actually the voice I want for this character is like Esma from the Emperor's new groove when she turns into a cat.
• 24:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, little evil kitten voice.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's almost what I want for her cat's life.
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: But cat's life is not a shame to who she is.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cat's life has a halfway form and that a large kind of purple cat form.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Not purple more like lavender like light purple where she represents kind of a playfulness.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: a language.
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to keep using that word line, which she kind of moves in and out of things.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she's just so happy to have all this bait around.
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, let's go play.
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're for friends.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's let's pound some things.
• 24:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: It makes me think, do I grew up with hemen?
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like rides battlecat around that cringe or turns into battlecat.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like Skeletor rides his like panther around to calm that.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cats like gives that like big cat transformation energy.
• 25:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's almost in a form of like a
• 25:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Were you familiar with this character before I tossed this episode at you?
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Was not.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really liked her.
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she has that smoothness and she's very liquid.
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like that sort of smooth flow of movement.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Very much like a cat, right?
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you can imagine her lying down in the sun being for like 12 hours and only rolling just far enough to stay in it.
• 25:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then jumping up doing something super active for a short period of time.
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: It seems to suit the Hellians pretty well.
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's in particular seems extremely fond of her.
• 25:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Charl St.
• 25:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Question, was this a character you were familiar with?
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, not at all.
• 25:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was going a lot of flashbacks to the Kelly Berry movie when I started or even this.
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh gosh, Kelly Berry is the worst cat woman.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well.
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: I can tell you what I felt about this character.
• 25:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's funny you say like, Earthic hit and that easema and that poetic for me, it was a complete opposite.
• 25:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like I found her dialogue and delivery to be very like hokey, like not Bruce Banner, smart Hulk, but like pre-hulk when it's like me don't like that.
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: at the Hulkton, you know, she's like very broken English, and I'm just like, why is she talking like this?
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: So then I, again, being the Marvel fan, but I am, I have the Marvel cyclopedia right here.
• 26:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Now I'm just reading her entry in it.
• 26:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it says that she's, you know, that she's highly intelligent, and she receives an accelerated education within a year, she gained high school literacy and joined the Hellians.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Some like if she's so smart, why does she talk like this?
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: It didn't make any sense to me.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe you can explain that, I don't know, but I don't know, but I don't know.
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: I thought she was fine, but I was like, did probably reason I don't know this character.
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he sounded more like an animal version of Warlock, you know, that sort of like that third person self-referential, you know, that sort of speech, that's what I got from it.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: The way she speaks does kid kind of a childishness to that free whole thing I can definitely see that, but it might just be the way she talks, the way she sees the world is different, right?
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love the idea of like a mutant adapting to their powers in a certain way and your powers change how you are.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you've got a black hole for a heart, which is one of the new characters in Gelsamone's X-Men,
• 27:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: you're going to see the world a little differently than other people.
• 27:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you're magic and you transfer to demon dimensions, if you are Scott and you are myopic and you see everything in red, you know, like there's I think there's ways of like viewing a characters.
• 27:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the way cats I sees the world seems to be very unique to her and I think she's a character worthy of exploration.
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I write a lot of X-Men stories in my free time just for myself.
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm practicing writing skills with the hope of writing comics one day.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I did a book with Kat's I recently after doing this research.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just to kind of get in her head a little bit, and I found myself delighted by the way that she sees the world and interacts with other people.
• 27:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: She wants that.
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: She there's a prickliness about her, but also you look at her and think she's simple and she is not simple at all.
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like her a lot actually.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think she's really interesting.
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she has a unique visual.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no one else quite like her.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: the fact that it's like it's made clear in the stories that she always thought she was a cat that had a human form, rather than a human that had a cat form.
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think is a really interesting sort of twist on how those powers can work.
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think gives a lot of insight into that perspective, right?
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so a couple things about this character Chris Clara initially intended for her to be an alien like an alien cat being who could transform and that obviously did not happen She's a team that is adopted completely by Emma Frost and the original or is origin story provided is that she was like abandoned at birth by her parents and raised by a cat
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: which is crazy.
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we're gonna take a quick side tangent.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a one backup story in an X-Men unlimited where Beast finds like a mutant cat woman and has sex with her.
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has the realization that she's not a mutant who turns into a cat.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's like a cat who is a mutant.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Which is a crazy thing.
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's this hilarious story.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've interviewed the writer.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: You almost wonder if there's like a certain amount of like cat being mutants out there.
• 28:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: In the way that there's a lot of glow, a lot of wolf or like Wolverine characters out there.
• 29:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cats like also the visual when she's in her human form.
• 29:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's the purple hair.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like the big kind of yellow eyes with the like hat slit in them.
• 29:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know what I'm talking about?
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's the yellow with like the moon that comes down the middle and she's named after a cat's eye gem.
• 29:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why those are called cat's eyes because they look like cats eyes.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you look up cat's eye gems, there's those little like round stones with like the black slit when you look into it.
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's where her name comes from.
• 29:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: She also keeps her tail when she's in her human form.
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it kind of like night crawler.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: She has like a big problem.
• 29:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going out the back, which is really fond of its way as well.
• 29:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thoughts on on Cat's eyes uniqueness and in her human visual.
• 29:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I was going to bring that up because again, I'm looking at the entry in the marvels.
• 29:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like a Peter right now.
• 29:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: She looks her outfit to her tail very night crawlerly, very, very night crawler, which is one of my fear and X-Men says pretty cool.
• 29:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no, her look is her look is kind of sleek.
• 29:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: I like the lavender kind of fur she has, you know what I mean?
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: And the hair, I think that's pretty really cool and kind of differentiates her from other kind of cat people which usually they kind of go more yellowy and orange cat kind of vibes, you know, and they kind of do a cat person.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: See, I do like her visuals for sure.
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: The scientific term you'll see transfer used for her power is A-I-L-U-R-A-N-T is the beginning of this word.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I-I-L-R-N therapy, so I-I-L-R-O-S means cat in Greek and entropy is human, so it's like a cat human.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: So again, at least like it's like a wear wolf, but a person who can transform into a cat.
• 30:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've talked a lot about the mythology, we've got to focus more on the character, or we'll be on this episode for hours.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I think there's a lot that makes her really interesting, the speaking style, and then I want to talk about her relationships with other people as well.
• 30:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's part of a group called the Hellyons.
• 30:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Claremont creates them as counters to the new mutants.
• 30:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Charles Xavier has his school and Emma Frost starts her own.
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: We could talk for hours about Emma Frost, of course.
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: But one of the complexities of Emma Frost is that she loves educating children.
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: even though she wears like lingerie and like you do those whips and spike heels to teach them along the way.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: But she has a lot of stories about losing groups of children.
• 31:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the Halyens later in the run dive very tragically.
• 31:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai among them, when they are murdered by sentitals from the future, in a story that knocks Emma into a coma.
• 31:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: The Hellians, I'm guessing, are kind of new characters for both of you, but for those of those who were reading the books in the 80s, these are beloved characters, and then we have the more recent run called the Hellians, in which one of their characters, empath, or manual de la Rocha, is part of the team.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's part of the original team.
• 31:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's kind of the most irredeemable one.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: He can manipulate your emotions and he does it very selfishly.
• 31:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: He makes women love him.
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: He makes people fight and hate each other.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's just kind of twist and people around a lot of the time.
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: James Proud star is one of these characters as well the beloved character Warpath who starts out as Thunderbird in this group and then we have characters that each deserve their own patreon and one day I will do one on each of these characters because they're all great, but we have a roulette and jet stream and taro as part of the original group and then more characters like beef and others get added a little bit later
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: They have kind of a purplish uniform that they wear.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's like kind of this infamous.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: You see a lot of people cosplayed this like type.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's looked with like the cut, the V in the shirt collar.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Again, as a counter to the new mutants.
• 32:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai, we get the idea that she was living for a long time as a cat before Emma Frost found her.
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Emma, of course, works for the Hellfire Club.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: which is kind of a long-term capitalist organization that has been building power in the country.
• 32:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the rich and wealthy have like crazy parties, crazy sex parties, as like they manipulate the events of the world.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Emma's part of this group, and the aliens are affiliated with this.
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're often at the Hellfire Club, but they're like a high school full of students in the way that the new mutants or generation X is.
• 32:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Katzai's not super connected except through Emma, who found Katzai and kind of helped raise her away.
• 32:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it is very clearly noted in a couple of places, notably New Mutants 17, and I think again in 31, that Katzai is very highly intelligent.
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: It even states at one point like her IQ may be superior to that of Kitty Pride.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: But that's not a thing we've ever really seen in the comics.
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't know the world from her view in that way, very much.
• 33:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've never seen a story where her intelligence really comes
• 33:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a lot of showing that not, you know, so I'm telling that showing with that which is like, like I still have red to her entry and then I dove into the comics.
• 33:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, you told me one thing, but she's not showing it.
• 33:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's like if you said, hey, every Williams is super smart.
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: But then she does nothing with her brain in all the issues of Ironheart.
• 33:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like, well, if she smart them, you know what I mean?
• 33:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, so if that, that kind of bugged me.
• 33:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: Honestly, I was really looking forward to that part of her.
• 33:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: Kind of jumping back on Emma, I'm a prolly quick.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know we said she loves kids and all this stuff.
• 33:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know, you're saying like she's like this woman bringing in all these these foster kids and stuff like his meetings, but she only wants them because they have power and they can help her get what she wants.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's one read on it, but I think there's been a lot of softer takes on Emma and her love for children and the grief she has when she loses them.
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you guys watched the Walking Dead at all, there's a lot of storylines about how we want to nurture our kids, but in this fucking world, we got to teach them to fight this zombies, or they're going to die, which often happens, right?
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you almost get the view that Emma kind of sees that like harsh leadership as necessary, because her kids die over and over again.
• 34:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a story, a genosha, of course, is a horrible moment for her after the helli instance.
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everything, this was your first time reading some of these old 80s coming, some guessing.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have you hopping all over the X-Men universe, what do you do these episodes with me?
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: What was it like for you to jump into the world of the new mutants?
• 34:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really like these.
• 34:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just, the art is super kinetic and there's a lot of movement.
• 34:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot going on.
• 34:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought they were great.
• 34:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like the teams.
• 34:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like that they're sort of counterparts on each one of them, and I like kids too, right?
• 34:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not the way Emma Frost likes kids, but.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to cover some of these appearances a little bit quickly focusing on moments of cat's eye, but I love the energy that we've captured just talking about the the trope for this character and how she exists in this universe.
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we first meet her in new mutants number 16 and then 17.
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Chris Claremont and Salbius Chema are the creators of this character.
• 35:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: The white queen Emma Frost has brought Katie Pride to the Hellfire Club and wants to keep her there.
• 35:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kitty is here, and the new mutants are there to try to rescue her, and this is where we meet the counters to the new mutants.
• 35:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's been recruiting children, kind of pulled them away from Charles Xavier as their powers manifest.
• 35:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the hellians and the new mutants have some sparring matches, there's a bunch of things going on.
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Cat's Eye gets to kind of follow Magic and Moonstar around.
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: The caption tells us, behind the girls, unnoticed, a shadow flows among shadows.
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Feral eyes gleam an anticipation of the hunt and the kill.
• 35:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you picture the cat stalking the prey, right?
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's tail twitching while it's watching, a little hole in the wall for the mouse to come out.
• 35:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Moonstar has distracted, so cats I reach is down, picks up Iliana and slams her head into the ceiling.
• 36:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we get her first words, which are, intruder, go hush-bye, which we can read in a dumb Hulk voice or an earth-a-kit voice, but this is the voice you're getting for her today.
• 36:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the two escape through magic's teleportation, the other new mutants are captured.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: We jump to the next issue where Emma Frost is holding the class, the hellians are all bickering.
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai goes back to her human form.
• 36:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: We get the caption, the young Metamorph hates the transition to Katzai.
• 36:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Her human body is alien, as ugly as it is incredibly clumsy, but she does as she's told.
• 36:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's one of the things as Emma's trying to get her to love both of her forms.
• 36:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's kind of an odd counter to Wolvesman again, right?
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Rain hates her wolf form, but Katzai hates her girl form.
• 36:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: She looks very thin, almost kind of inhuman, and again, that alien plan Claremont had for her first.
• 36:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's very lie, the large eyes.
• 36:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Her hair's almost white, but it's often more purplish.
• 36:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, so the new mutants get captured, they are made to believe through emotional control that they are part of the helions, uh, Mirage and Magic come back to rescue the teammates.
• 37:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a fight.
• 37:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cats like it's to watch while Jet's a street jet stream in cannonball have a sparring match to determine who is more powerful.
• 37:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sebastian Shaw and the Frost show up.
• 37:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sunspot gets knocked out.
• 37:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai is now eating wolves vain and getting sunspot to safety, so Katzai's not super interested in the dynamics of the hellians.
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's more therefore the entertainment.
• 37:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we get the caption, as the rest of her teammates head for the exit, telepathically guided by the white queen and protected by Sebastian Shaw, Katzai springs to wolves vain side to help her drag sunspot to where her friends are waiting.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she says, girl third person, like Katzai, smell funny, not looks so pretty pretty, but maybe friends, red first stay.
• 37:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she wants
• 37:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: To play, she wants to like hang out.
• 37:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's be best friends forever.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll stay in invites at the end of this issue.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Invites Katzai to come join her at the Xavier Mansion.
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Katzai says, nah, Katzai stays happy place.
• 37:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is kind of way of her figuring out language in a way, but we don't get it toned.
• 37:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a ton of characters in these issues.
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's a really delightful read.
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did look at these issues.
• 38:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: When she grabs Eliana from the ceiling and slams her head into it, that is actually my single favorite Katzai moment.
• 38:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just so inspired.
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I like her better on her own than as part of the team because she tends to get lost.
• 38:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think amongst the other members.
• 38:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when she's out on her own or when she's like running with rain, I really like that part because it gives a focus on her that I find really interesting.
• 38:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is kind of an era of X-Men comics where we start introducing a ton of mutants.
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they have a lot of really fun things.
• 38:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: So these are characters that have like fan favorites.
• 38:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a whole fan base for cats out there.
• 38:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe first and foremost, Connor Goldsmith on cerebral famously loves this character, and she's great tarot jet stream, like all of these characters are really wonderful.
• 38:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I really love them, but they've never had the focus or the glow up that James Proudstar has had, tarot and empath probably have had the next most amount of attention.
• 38:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: But again, there's just a ton of potential here.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Charles, I'm going to have you talk about the Firestar Limited Series.
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Angelica Jones debuted in a cartoon outside of the Marvel Universe, then they gave her a limited series.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Later, she's got microwave powers.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the series where Emma, they've talked about this in the comics, like 20 times in the last five years.
• 39:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Emma murders her horse at the end, butter rum, to teach Angelica a lesson.
• 39:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai's part of this in the Hellian show up.
• 39:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: But do you want to tell us about Firestar 2 and 3, which are the two middle issues of this limited series?
• 39:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: I would love to.
• 39:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: So in issue two of Firestar, there's a training exercise all of the danger room and jet stream drop cat side in a human form.
• 39:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: Make it her transform faster than usual to half cat form.
• 39:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, Emma Frost did not like how shit they are at using their mutant abilities.
• 39:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: So using her telepathic abilities, she bitched them out with enough.
• 39:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm barely disappointed with today's session.
• 39:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: Perhaps this simple mind blasts will inspire you all to do better.
• 39:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: And we don't play that as we can say.
• 39:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then she gives Katzai and gesturing the world's biggest hangover migraine, which they did not like or care for.
• 39:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: After the session, when Katzai met Firestar, Katzai asked in her bestful impersonation, why that pretty person here?
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Later, Katzai asked Firestar that she has come into the school dance, which was very cute.
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: I thought while wearing an orange fur top that she definitely did not get from anthropology,
• 40:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: And an orange skirt and orange shoes looking like she dressed in Ben Grimm cosplay, but not like the movie quality cosplay, you know, like or even the spirit of Halloween store the mid kind of cosplay, it was like her mom found every piece of orange clothing she had in her closet and handed to her right before she was set to leave the house like here put this on, if anyone asks who you're supposed to be, tell them your Ben Grimm and if they don't believe you say you're going to film a, I really don't give a shit, just take this orange stuff and go.
• 40:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, anyways, one in Firestar to join them at the dance.
• 40:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Still very cute.
• 40:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Katzai says, again, Charlie, we're in our whole pretty person come to the, the new mutant come to the dance and at the dance, as you said, Chad, Emma Frost, Phil's Firestar's horse, butterum, inciting heat of protest worldwide.
• 40:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's leader Rekton that she actually found butter rum a different place to live.
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Old Angelica that she killed her, but I don't know if I believe it.
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't know about that.
• 41:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: Angelica, don't it?
• 41:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: It can be a little exasperating.
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of understand.
• 41:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was not okay with this.
• 41:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: I still have PTSD from shimmer in the last of us part two.
• 41:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: If you know, you know, also the vastly superior show to walk in dead.
• 41:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's not another podcast another day.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Then in issue three, cat size and a dance class, which was a very fun issue.
• 41:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: With the others, when fire stars sets off the sprinklers because she's apparently from the town of Footloose and does not like dancing.
• 41:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, no, that's not why.
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: The real reason is she was game bullied.
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: So she wants to get the bully wet because that shows them.
• 41:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
• 41:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't the best plan, but in Firestar's offense, no one's ever compared her to Reed Richards or Rear Williams.
• 41:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: So if you know what I mean.
• 41:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like Emma Frost is everything, but twirl of villainous mustache while stroking a cat and laughing diabolically in front of her.
• 41:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yet Firestar still considers Emma a good person.
• 41:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like that's out for her best interest, which I was like she clearly just using you because you're really good at what you do and you can you're very powerful
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's why like Emma Frost has had a little weird thing for me, but by the grace, so after fires are set off to sprinklers enacting her less than thought-out revenge plan, Katzai runs from the room covering her head, her cat tail twitching behind her human form.
• 42:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: By the way, can I just say, and I don't know if you experienced this with your flerkins with them, but my freaking goose, the best Katzai's such alien creature in Marvel will fight me.
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: If those speakers went off, like in my house right now, he would be dancing in them and join this water on his fur.
• 42:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like he was high on cat nip at Coachella on a rainy night.
• 42:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like he loves water.
• 42:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: He gets in the shower with me every time I get in.
• 42:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: He wants to be in groundwater all the time.
• 42:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's a weirdo.
• 42:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: So that was where I'm like, but she's running out.
• 42:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: She I thought cast love water, you know.
• 42:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: So you know, that's not all.
• 42:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, that's Gatsai for the those two issues which was pretty I think we're the input of best when she's around the other team She kind of gets lost.
• 42:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, she doesn't really have too much to do in these issues But when she's on her own like in those earlier issues The deemuting issues.
• 42:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's really kind of just comes into our own and is really interesting of the character there Yeah, so we jumped to new mutants 39 the new mutants have just met the beyond her I think he like resurrected them.
• 42:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're like super shell-hawk.
• 43:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a character like godpower basically
• 43:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: and Emma brings them to her school and tries to integrate them among her students.
• 43:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Empath walks right into the girl's locker room and tries to manipulate them all.
• 43:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they are all like very, very pissed.
• 43:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Sharon changes into her cat's eye form.
• 43:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Very angry with him, obviously.
• 43:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sneaky bad boy plays hurtful heart games with Helian's new friends.
• 43:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe play a game with cat's eyes.
• 43:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, see which is stronger, nasty heart power or claws.
• 43:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this girl will leg fuck you up, if you mess with her a little bit.
• 43:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: They chase them out of the room, and she gets back to her human form, and hugs Wolvesbane, little red fur fur person.
• 43:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Friends at last, we are, yes, come to stay, be happy with Katzai.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: They all post together for a big class photograph in Hellingin's uniforms.
• 43:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are they trained together for a period of time?
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Emma tries helping the new mutants kind of recover from their traumas and like is building some loyalty toward her.
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wolvesbane has a nightmare, and ends up changing into her like halfway form.
• 43:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Katzai, who's wearing this little slinky green nighty, and she has her tail out the back, which is very furry, sub-houts, like a sexy furry.
• 44:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: And some of his brushes into check on her, the two of them are sharing a room, and that's so cute.
• 44:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And small, fur-friend, cries.
• 44:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai smells great fear, but save you all, Rain, no need to, and Rain isn't a panic, and hits Katzai across the face.
• 44:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, oh, Marshall, haven't, what's with my dog?
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't mean to hurt you.
• 44:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she shifts back to human form and Katzai gives a sneaky red for fast as me maybe strong too.
• 44:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she's not angry.
• 44:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: The two of them just to kind of get to go play together.
• 44:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone rushes into check on them.
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's very cute.
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai assures everyone.
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: No problem till noisy boys broke through the wall.
• 44:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Silly noises like fuss.
• 44:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Crash bash mess show off red for come with Katzai.
• 44:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: run and howl and play feel great soon promise and they just go bounding off and they're like little wolf and cat forms presumably to like hunt some birds or shit out there.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: The narrator tells us flesh and bone blow like quick silver.
• 44:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: The bodies of two young girls becoming a russet fird wolf and a great violet cat is the gamble into the moonlit night.
• 45:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cat's eyes are cute.
• 45:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's really adorable at this.
• 45:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: We see her again in 43 where Tarrow has predicted through a
• 45:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai is sleeping and a sneaky bad boy bed go buy a buy a heart twister go with we see her treads form into her form and that middle form for her is kind of terrifying it's a little bit like nightmare creature in some ways and Rutha did you have a visual of her halfway through?
• 45:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was I like but I like that the the drawings that they do right where it starts and get all of the motion through all of the like all of the different transitions all within one panel.
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's really fun.
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: We see her again in 53 there's a Hellfire Gala at the Hellfire Club and it's like a big prom for all the heliens in the new mutants.
• 45:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Kat Kat Kat's like it's to put on this yellow frilly dress with long gloves It's very like a debut taught from the deep self in a way There's like a necklace and a low cut and like a yellow rose on our chest And she puts her hands over reins eyes at the party.
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: They embrace their playing
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Say hello, funny, way big laugh.
• 46:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, because she puts her hands on reins eyes cats.
• 46:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I feel heart good to see small red for friend Then forever since last drop Charles.
• 46:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I read this in an earthy kid voice, and I can totally see the like baby ball voice that you contributed like it could be it could be cute or frustrated.
• 46:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I got supposed
• 46:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they want to go play.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: They rush out of the party to like romp around a little bit and They make a like a slutty health-yar club made drops and champagne and go running for help So they're just having a good time in 56 the hellians sit down for like a fancy breakfast with like tea and China and Katzai isn't like a cute little purple pants suit and this is where bird boy is like escaping from a cage and they okay We were not gonna talk about birds bird boy today, but that's a character who deserves a patreon
• 46:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's the Jar Jar Binks of the X-Men universe, which is kind of all you need to know.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's quite an obnoxious character, but also cutesy in his own odd little way.
• 46:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're chasing bird boy around, Katzai's chasing of a little bird mutate man basically.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a cute little issue.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: In 62 magma has officially joined the helians and Katzai is training against her, which is, you know, there's this hot lava lady.
• 47:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So a lot of fun moments, but just not enough to make us like really indelibly know these characters.
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would read a fucking hellian series written in this era.
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would write a hellian's limited series written in this area that just gives us the Panash of what we need to care about these characters deeply.
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Fabian gives us the characters again in his new warriors run his early 90s new warrior stuff is so great I love this run so I found the the tendency to put a prologue to a different story in the middle of these stories or at the end of them I found very confusing.
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say up front
• 47:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, what is happening?
• 47:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think I got most of it.
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we've got the Hellyons back.
• 47:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've got Katzai and Jetstream and Rallett and Terran.
• 47:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: All the new, all the old ones.
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we also have beef, and perhaps my favorite Hellyons of all time.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Beef atron, who I can only imagine wasn't inspired by beefess and butt head.
• 47:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea what is that.
• 47:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: They invade a foundation.
• 47:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: They fight T-A-I.
• 48:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: The command of Emma Frost.
• 48:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Katzai, see friend her Katzai smell bad scent.
• 48:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: minty bed scent.
• 48:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the woman that she smells and attacks is night thrashers, nanny, caring person.
• 48:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 48:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the same old woman from later in the prologue, which is for something that happened before.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's sad.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of complicated new warriors chronology here.
• 48:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're
• 48:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: facing some decisions that were made by their parents at the end of the Vietnam War, basically how they tapped into like this universal power stream that resulted in their children getting powers.
• 48:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a long running plot line from this from Fabiania.
• 48:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is quite good, but it's a lot to jump into if you don't know what's going on.
• 48:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and a better turn by the way, Ruth Ann is a particle accelerator.
• 48:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so not be a problem.
• 48:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not be a problem.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's possible.
• 48:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, it just seems so, so like a pair, but anyway, that also good to know.
• 48:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Was not clear from the issue I was reading.
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: But so they're then sent out after specifically night fresher and silhouette.
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: She is, she's really, really, very scary, like wear cat, not really much of a human form at all, just very purple, very big cat, but sort of flattened in a weird way in terms of her look.
• 49:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're fighting.
• 49:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Emma Frost shows up and there's the old woman that I think was the minty bed sent lady.
• 49:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, okay, everyone's really equally paired.
• 49:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to decide who I think.
• 49:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is it firestar that they're fighting over?
• 49:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, firestar gets to decide which team she goes with based on which team wins.
• 49:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, Katzai actually beats Knight Frasher, which is very impressive to see.
• 49:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: She cuts right through his armor.
• 49:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, he jumps on her back.
• 49:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: She kicks him off.
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's cowboy and black rides Katzai.
• 49:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then Katzai gives cowboy and black a ride and return.
• 49:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like donkey kicks him into the wall.
• 49:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, they depart peacefully sort of the the the new mutants new mutants.
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is who this is New Warriors New Warriors.
• 49:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, the back premise here.
• 49:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Fabian, you see has gathered a bunch of characters that don't fit together from different parts of the marvel universe and launched a new team fire stars are really new character at this time.
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: She gets paired with bands astrabic.
• 50:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're both mutants.
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is kind of an early story.
• 50:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: One of her few previous appearances is when they tried to force her on the heli.
• 50:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so this is Fabian bringing an MN, the heliens to give a fire star like an early narrative are very simply put.
• 50:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and it's great too, because M is like, so this team won, so you have the right to choose.
• 50:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And fire stars like, actually, I always had the right to choose.
• 50:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much.
• 50:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't choose you, which was very refreshing to see.
• 50:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, fire source interesting and and and that gets like this big slutty like pin up on one of the covers and it's a fun couple of issues, but there's a lot going on and I love Nama Rita like there's a lot of characters around silhouette is a character that I love love love night thrasher There's a ton of characters here that I love a lot actually a lot of action they were exciting and fun and I thought while I read them that I understood them, but now going back and having to talk about them.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure anymore.
• 50:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, this is kind of it for Katzai and that's what's crazy is because we remember this character very fondly a lot of X-Men fans, but that's kind of all she's got because in uncanny X-Men 281 they are at like a hellfire club party and there's there's a crazy thing about fits Roy and sentals from the future, but the sentals end up attacking this party accidentally and all of the hellians basically are like horribly murdered.
• 51:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they're dead.
• 51:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the only time we ever see Katzai for a long time after this is when like Emma is like wrestling with her guilt.
• 51:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And right after this is where Emma ends up in the coma, she gets that shit with Iceman where she helps him learn that he's gay and has like big powers.
• 51:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then she gets awakened during the family's covenant and becomes the headmistress of generation X which is her second big arc.
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Before she gets added to the X-Men team by Grant Morrison and Joss Weiden later and gets a lot of more indelible exploration.
• 51:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Katzai is basically only there once in a while when she gets reanimated from the dead.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: During the necrotia event, she's there.
• 51:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: She gets to hiss a little bit in a few places.
• 51:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: The dead Helians are back with the trans mode virus and they fight the X-Men.
• 51:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a mode where like Katzai seems to be hungering for flesh.
• 51:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like almost the always wonder of empath is like making her super vampiric.
• 52:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Tasty, tasty, fresh.
• 52:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai wants it all.
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she gets a U.R.
• 52:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: weak alien moment toward Warlock.
• 52:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: They are back again on critical after the heliens have been resurrected and we see cats I have a few times in the heliens kind of going after empath for being a shithead and later We see her at an X-Men annual at the green lagoon and she gets to kind of wagger tail And that's basically it.
• 52:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's not a character who's ever had a ton of focus now an interesting thought experiment for listeners You love the character wolvesbane who has a ton of complexity, but let's swap places with wolvesbane and catside for a minute
• 52:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Those things only show up six times.
• 52:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: We know she grew up in this like awful church that told her she hates herself and that she hates her wolf form and she transforms once in a while.
• 52:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's all we get about her.
• 52:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't get any more exploration.
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then you kind of want more because here's this really interesting character.
• 52:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's kind of what Claremont and later NECS have done with Katzai is give us enough to make us want more.
• 52:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: But she's just never had a ton of focus.
• 53:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: What are your thoughts on Katzai as we're kind of wrapping up our conversation about what makes her unique?
• 53:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you want more of about this character?
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, let's go Ruth and then Charles.
• 53:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want more of what I always want more of, which is relationships.
• 53:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I find most interesting.
• 53:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would read in a heartbeat chat if you would like to write the many series of Katzai and Will Spains Adventures in their fur forms.
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my god, I really love that.
• 53:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would love to write that.
• 53:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: right that I will read that in a heartbeat, absolutely.
• 53:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, like that relationship in particular, I think there's a lot of potential there that hasn't been explored.
• 53:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I would like to, I'd like to see that then you get more of Wolfspane and Katzai.
• 53:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a choice.
• 53:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I would just like to see them keep their promise of this character being so smart and being all this and being like, they really talk her up to be this great character, which I think she has potential to be.
• 53:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was like in the really explore that, like, show us what makes her take, show us her using her,
• 53:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean, to get out of problems and solve them, just give for more agency in a story.
• 53:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I second with Anne, like if you want to write that chat, I'll be there to read it.
• 54:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would have a flick and great time writing that series.
• 54:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm feeling wonderful.
• 54:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: The stuff I want most about this character.
• 54:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And again, I wrote her in a story that we'll probably never see the lot of day, just because I'm practicing my comic writing skills.
• 54:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I find myself really curious about the way she sees the world.
• 54:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's a there's a if you take warlock in the new mutants he's so indelibly different from the other characters the way he speaks with like self friend and wanting to understand emotion I like a character who offers a very different perspective when you put long shot on the team cats like almost seems to have this kind of alien perspective.
• 54:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think you could put her on almost any adventure.
• 54:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai versus Sentinel's Katzai and the Shiar Empire.
• 54:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai among the more looks.
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she's going to bring a very unique perspective in the way that's no other character kind of can.
• 54:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Her intelligence is a big part of this.
• 54:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Her relationships are not very well formed.
• 54:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: We see a fondness between her and rain.
• 54:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we see kind of a connection that stated but never explored between Sharon and Emma, which that leaves me wanting to know more about Katzai's background.
• 55:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we do that one story where we talk about what she came from and what she survived and how Emma saved her and then we have a very different perspective on this character I think this character has a ton of potential and I think the perfect framing for this was to really talk about like cats and fiction for a little while it like what makes these characters so interesting.
• 55:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I also love the visuals, she's not named for a cat, she's named for a gem, and I think that idea of what that means, there's a way of like giving some mystical applications to this character or even magical that I think are quite interesting as well.
• 55:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: What are your resident thoughts on cat size?
• 55:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: We start to wrap up our conversation, anything showing up.
• 55:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I forgot to mention there's a K-pop group called Katzai as well.
• 55:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, sure!
• 55:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, so maybe she can team up with the Katzai group and like, come on stage, I don't know.
• 55:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai and Dazzler hanging out?
• 55:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.
• 55:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think um, I think this character, like the character like Renzi, for example, was just an X-Men villain for so long until we gave her like a place on the team.
• 56:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Emma was that way too.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think Katzai and some of the Helians characters really have an opportunity
• 56:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: to be major players in the X-Men universe under the writers.
• 56:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think Katzai is extremely unique in a world full of very like a sea of like a very obscure mutants, right?
• 56:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a thousand characters you can choose, but it's hard to give a character like beef like low up because there's a hundred other strong characters, right?
• 56:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai gives you that person on the team that is like the feral, right?
• 56:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: You want Wolverine or feral or x23, or like there's different ways of like you want that savage character.
• 56:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Catside provides a very unique version of that like scrappy fighter hunter tracker character.
• 56:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like she has a healing factor and some mysticism about her that's just never been explored.
• 56:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a big fan, I like her a lot.
• 56:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm very intrigued by her, which is a great place to start as a writer with a character.
• 56:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: As we're wrapping up, working people find you both online and is there anything you'd like to plug?
• 56:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go Ruth and then Charles.
• 56:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I do not have anything to plug as a librarian, just go to your public library, borrow your comics from them.
• 57:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to, we have lots of things for you.
• 57:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can find me online, mainly on Instagram.
• 57:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm at Head of Dabler, like Head of Dabler, but Dabling in all of the different things.
• 57:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mainly post pictures of my cats and pictures of the sky when I post anything at all.
• 57:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But usually I'll just go through and follow all of your things and like them.
• 57:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm a good fan to have around.
• 57:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Charles.
• 57:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: So you can find me on Instagram, TikTok, all those great places at Charles, underscore A on the screen bush.
• 57:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: Also just go to my website.
• 57:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: You can find all my stuff there as well.
• 57:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Please check out the book.
• 57:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Every variable of us, a variable of books are sold.
• 57:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have a couple of things in the pot right now.
• 57:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: One of them being queer young adult novel, that's all about ballroom, so bluesy little ballroom is.
• 57:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: If you're seeing the show pose, imagine that, but a young adult version of it.
• 57:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's all in submission right now with my agent.
• 57:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm writing another book right now that's all about kind of like the hate you give meets like your Martin so it's a why you book have been doing a lot of research reading all of the 1619 project to kind of give me some more that history and my history in this country it's funny because I'm going on a side tangent now sorry about that chat um you're okay.
• 58:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I also have a comic that we're trying to get done right now.
• 58:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's called Armour Girl and we actually got a blur back recently from one of the authors in the 1619 project that gave a great great review for it.
• 58:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's looking to come out, but with all that being said, a lot of heavy stuff that I'm working on.
• 58:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm actually working on my own little comic as well, which is what if.
• 58:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: Goose was agatist familiar so it's just something fun the right so I've just been doing that on the side like in between chapters of the book which is kind of keeping my sanity because otherwise I would definitely be losing it with all the oppression and atrocities that have been done to the country for four years.
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah yeah well in writing about and dwelling and I'm a therapist in my day job and the grief and the trauma are heavy so you per hear a story is in the joy of making the show keep me very well balanced.
• 58:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I misquoted one thing earlier.
• 58:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to correct.
• 59:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I said Katzai was killed by the sentinals.
• 59:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Some of the Helians were killed by sentinals.
• 59:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Katzai was actually killed by Trevor Fitzroy.
• 59:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: She was one of the characters that he like drained her life because he has to have life forced to open a portal.
• 59:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So she died even worse, which is terrible.
• 59:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: purpose for the snucker, but I love them.
• 59:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, lastly, I'm Chad Anderson.
• 59:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can find me online at Dream Walk in Under Scoreland on Instagram.
• 59:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: My keep my own social media.
• 59:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Probably because I kiddo's the two of you are welcome to follow me if you'd like.
• 59:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just ask the next episode out on the Patreon immediately after this is all about another Russian character.
• 59:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: We got to talk about blind faith, well, back to three of us.
• 59:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm delving into the world of a Lexi version, the Marvel's KGB director, which is a really fascinating journey.
• 59:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm very excited to talk with my friends, Derek Koon Skin, and Tristan Ponger.
• 59:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Over on the main show, the next episode coming out after this will be all about X-Men Origins Colossus, who is of course a Russian character as well.
• 59:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Vashit appears at that issue.
• 59:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: My guests on that episode are Erica Schultz and Sarah Galey.
• 59:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: We get to talk about all about fight choreography.
• 59:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a really fun episode.
• 59:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And watch for the trial of Patsy Walker later in the month.
• 59:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have a lot of really fun things coming out on the show.
• 1:00:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just built the show into June as where we get to do all the Pride Month stuff which I'm very excited about.
• 1:00:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you everybody so much, thank you Charles, thank you Ruth, we will see you all back here next time on the Grimmolkin Lane Patreon.
• 1:00:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And now stay tuned for some thoughts on fascism as a special guest and I talked about a red skull story and its modern applications.
• 1:00:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Gayorg Elser was born in 1903 to a poor family with an alcoholic father.
• 1:00:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Gayorg went to work as a young teen and spent a lifetime afterward finding work wherever he could.
• 1:00:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: In a clock factory, assembling wooden propellers or airplanes as a carpenter, he became a father himself and discovered the legal expectations to pay child support.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes exceeded the wages he could gather.
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: in post-World War I, Germany, where the economy was just kind of fractured for guys like him.
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: A talented musician, Georg, was dedicated to his complicated family, though at times they had very strained relationship, and he had a series of romantic dialiances, one time with a married woman who ended her marriage for him, but just kind of a normal guy.
• 1:01:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: So again, Germany after World War I was a difficult place because of all of the sanctions and reparations that had been placed upon the country.
• 1:01:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you recall the monarchy had been broken apart and the Vymar Republic took over.
• 1:01:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is where a lot of white workmen began listening to certain voices around the country.
• 1:01:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Communism was one popular belief system.
• 1:01:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Nazism and Aryanism that made these people feel special was another among the German working class.
• 1:01:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, as the people around him begin to pay more attention to Hitler, and the Nazi ideals in the early 1930s, Gayord began realizing the Hitler represented a very specific threat to his country and the working class that he cared about so much.
• 1:01:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, Gayord began to wonder if he might be able to do something to stop it all because he could feel the world going.
• 1:01:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Dark.
• 1:01:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: He began making plans to commit a political assassination of Adolf Hitler and his top 8s.
• 1:01:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: He increased his church attendance, he sought calm in his resolve, and he spent months and months and months planning this.
• 1:02:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was very resolved and was very careful.
• 1:02:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: After his eventual arrest, he told the officers, quote, I believe in the survival of the soul after death.
• 1:02:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I also believed I would not go to heaven if I had not had an opportunity to prove that I wanted good.
• 1:02:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I also wanted to prevent by my act even greater bloodshed.
• 1:02:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Meaning, killing Hitler was a lesser evil than doing nothing for this man.
• 1:02:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: So over a period of several months, gay or gathered materials he would need to make his bomb.
• 1:02:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: He took some supplies from an employer, he purchased others, and he began practicing the construction of the bomb, testing several versions of it out in the dark woods.
• 1:02:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Knowing that Adolf Hitler would be getting a speech in a particular hall on a particular place that he did every year.
• 1:02:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Garrett began sneaking into that hall every night, months and advance, and slowly building a bomb directly into the podium where Hitler would be speaking weeks and weeks later.
• 1:02:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Weeks after he built this device, and he finally set it to detonate with a simple clock timer in the middle of Hitler's speech during a Nazi rally.
• 1:02:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, in November, November 8, 1939, Hitler and several of his top aides, including Joseph Gobble's Rudolph Hess and Heinrichimler, who are all names of horrible people that you know, gathered around the podium as Hitler gave his speech.
• 1:03:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Had the plan worked, an entire contingent to not see Nazi leadership would have been killed in one fell swoop.
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: The bomb detonated in a massive explosion that injuring 62 people, some of them very badly, and a killed eight people, seven of them,
• 1:03:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: were really dedicated members of the Nazi party.
• 1:03:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: 120 people were present in the room when it exploded, which caused the roof to collapse by the way.
• 1:03:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Hitler had somewhere else to be, and he cut his speech 13 minutes early and had just departed with his AIDS 13 minutes before the bomb was set to go off.
• 1:03:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Gayour Gelser ended up arrested by the Gestapo, he was beaten and tortured for days, then his entire family was arrested and questioned in front of the man who was barely recognizable due to the swelling and his injuries, his employers, his roommates, everyone who had ever been known to have contact with him were arrested, some were jailed many all of them were questioned.
• 1:03:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Elsa was held by the Gestapo for months and tortured the entire time.
• 1:03:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was injected with drugs, subjected to hypnosis, and later forced to reconstruct his bomb for the Nazi officers.
• 1:04:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: They were so impressed with that they included diagrammed up of the bomb in their own training manuals for their soldiers after this.
• 1:04:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: The day after that bombing took place, angry guards at Bukwalt concentration camp, blamed the Jews there, and they pulled 21 individuals from the lines and immediately killed them with gunfire.
• 1:04:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: The rest in the camp were denied food completely for the next three days as punishment.
• 1:04:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Gayour Gelser was never given a trial.
• 1:04:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was held in sucks in house in concentration camp and later dock out.
• 1:04:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: for four years as the war raged on.
• 1:04:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: In April 1945, the Nazis were badly losing the war in Europe.
• 1:04:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Elster was shot by a Nazi officer and thrown into the ovens.
• 1:04:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Doc Al was liberated one week later.
• 1:04:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: In subsequent years, Elster has been honored by the German public and is considered a national hero.
• 1:04:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: There are statues built in his name, a national award given to people who demonstrate civil courage.
• 1:04:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: and even streets named after him in Germany because he once tried to assassinate a group of corrupt leaders.
• 1:05:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: There are over 2,000 more documented attempts on assassination attempts on Hitler from within Germany during World War II as well.
• 1:05:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we're going to jump to Captain America, 299.
• 1:05:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is where Captain America has been building in this long story from Jam Damate,
• 1:05:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: the culmination, and it's so good.
• 1:05:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's so rad.
• 1:05:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love this story so much.
• 1:05:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Captain America rushes through the Red Skull's base.
• 1:05:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: He finds Nazi flags, pictures of Hitler, and he runs by the way, right by that cosmic cube, where that contains the the soul of eight-off Hitler itself.
• 1:05:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: We covered that in a previous episode if you recall.
• 1:05:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Jam did his homework.
• 1:05:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: The Red Skull says that he is injected both Captain America and himself as elderly men, with poisons so that they can die together, like good boyfriends should at least the way he sees it.
• 1:05:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: As the Sisters of Sin Fight Captain America's captured allies, Mother Superior, the daughter of the Red Skull, realizes that the Red Skull has been grooming Zemo, but a helmet Zemo to be his heir, since he doesn't see a woman as being worthy.
• 1:05:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: So she kind of shuts Zemo's brain down.
• 1:05:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: The renderer is afraid that he comes back later.
• 1:06:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll get there.
• 1:06:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: While calling out, no, I'm the only heir parent to the skull.
• 1:06:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yet my father has rejected my claim to his mantle of evil, he wants no heir, he seeks to take his evil with him when he dies, take it to a higher plane of reality.
• 1:06:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: If I let him I am the fool, there's only one way to assume the Red Skull's crown of evil, I'll take it from his bloody hands.
• 1:06:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: A hearing of his daughter's plans, the red skull just blows up his house instead, and then he puts on his red skull mask for one final fight with old man Captain America.
• 1:06:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, now we jump to 300.
• 1:06:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: This story is called Dostenda, which is so perfect already.
• 1:06:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Captain America and the red skull have a huge fist fight.
• 1:06:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just two old men punching each other.
• 1:06:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: At last, at last, the fire burns in your eyes, y'all's the red skull, the fire of cosmic loathing of divine madness.
• 1:06:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: You finally see that this is the way it must be.
• 1:06:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Two gods locked in a raging battle for all eternity.
• 1:06:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Captain America is so fucking sick of it.
• 1:06:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have had enough of your babbling, enough of your lies.
• 1:06:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to hear anymore, and boy do we understand how that feels.
• 1:06:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: You will hear more captain, our spirits entwined.
• 1:07:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: We will carry on the battle till times end.
• 1:07:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: it is destiny's wish our soul reason for being admitted captain.
• 1:07:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've gotten for you.
• 1:07:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've succeeded in bringing you down to my level.
• 1:07:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: It does not matter if you beat me.
• 1:07:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've already won.
• 1:07:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have won.
• 1:07:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you're right, Skull.
• 1:07:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: He says.
• 1:07:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you have gotten to me.
• 1:07:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I fought hundreds of foes in my career skull, criminals, madmen, tyrants, and never before have I been moved to
• 1:07:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: truly hate a man because he was my enemy.
• 1:07:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: But you, you revel in atrocity, bask in evil, delight in depravity.
• 1:07:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hate you skull.
• 1:07:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hate what you are, what you've done to my friends, what you've done to the world.
• 1:07:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hate you with a passion that frightens me.
• 1:07:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: I see now the only why I'm ever going to be free of you is to see you dead.
• 1:07:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is all coming across very
• 1:07:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're in the end Captain America decides to not kill the red skull, which is an insane decision.
• 1:07:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
• 1:07:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Instead, the red skull just rips his own red mask off, and he starts to cry pathetically, and then the perfect ending to the story, he has a heart attack and he just dies.
• 1:08:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's just this pathetic man who just dies.
• 1:08:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: He leaves fingernails scratches downcapped in America's face as he withers away and caps says, now do you see skull?
• 1:08:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're not two gods and a cosmic dance.
• 1:08:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just two tired old men.
• 1:08:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: You did your best to bring me down to your level and God helped me.
• 1:08:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: You came close.
• 1:08:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: But in the end, you failed and you died a pathetic death.
• 1:08:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: But you're not taking me with you.
• 1:08:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to find a way to beat the poison.
• 1:08:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to live.
• 1:08:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he does, because the Native American Shaman, the Black Crow comes in and saves his life and it turns out all of his friends are still alive too.
• 1:08:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yay!
• 1:08:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: The story ends as Captain America carries the body of the Red Skull out into the light.
• 1:08:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Jack Monroe, the 1950s Nomad, says, a Steve Hustonald man.
• 1:08:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Who is he Jack?
• 1:08:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's yesterday.
• 1:08:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's the past, and it's time at long last to bury the past for good.
• 1:08:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: In the next issue, by the way, Mother Superior takes her father's body, renounces him spit on him and throws his body in a bonfire, and then she and all her little nun friends get reverted back to childhood.
• 1:09:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a cute little story.
• 1:09:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's an end for Sid until she comes back in a major way.
• 1:09:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that was a lot of pre-evil.
• 1:09:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me welcome one of my very favorite people.
• 1:09:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: The incredible Derek Nichols to talk about this wild story with me.
• 1:09:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, hi.
• 1:09:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
• 1:09:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: What a leading question, Chad.
• 1:09:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no, but not a fan, but I can it be entertained.
• 1:09:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
• 1:09:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone reacts to that question the same way by the way.
• 1:09:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, no, no, no, I'm not.
• 1:09:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you're a big Captain America head.
• 1:09:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, was this one of the, this may be the one of the few times you've ever jumped into the world of Cap?
• 1:09:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's not one of my go-tos to read, but this story is group and it's the cast of characters really, like I said, was it enjoyable reading?
• 1:09:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: I usually like team dynamics a bit, so Captain America never appealed to me, but this is very much a team, parts of it are very much team-like, so what was your familiarity with the character of the Red Skull before reading this long form story?
• 1:09:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I just knew him.
• 1:09:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Man, like, so over time, I'm just ending, you know, a Nazi and just a really, really bad dude.
• 1:10:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, not even just from the Captain America movies, but, um, what was that, uh, the axis of that, whenever all the heroes were inverted, like, that was when I had Xavier's brain.
• 1:10:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
• 1:10:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:10:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So really, I'm a bit the rest of those fun.
• 1:10:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's terrible at but he's fun.
• 1:10:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a good story.
• 1:10:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: But it, like, it allows, I think, any character be so terrible.
• 1:10:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Probably, like, let's write it really lean into it.
• 1:10:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: So probably, it's fun, right?
• 1:10:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's fun sometimes, and it's a very problematic others.
• 1:10:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's uncomfortable with others.
• 1:10:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so let's talk about the Red Skull's big journey.
• 1:10:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: He wants to get an air.
• 1:10:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: He ages up his daughter.
• 1:10:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's all this crazy shit going on.
• 1:10:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: He brings in Zemo, he's torturing Cap's friends, but in the end, all he wants is to die in the old man arms of his elderly lover, the only person who could ever understand him.
• 1:10:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: During this storyline, at Red School also kills a man named Horst, who was like one of his few old Nazi friends because they were trapped in the poison gas together back at the end of the 1930s.
• 1:10:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: What are your thoughts on the big horny final opus of the red skull here?
• 1:11:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't really read into it as homework as you did, so I don't really know what I'm talking about.
• 1:11:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's very much like the, any kind of culminating battle between like two people who are vastly different, but at the same time or so, steadfast in their ideologies that it just, it was one of those epic type battles.
• 1:11:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, Arnie, I was really interested to learn more about
• 1:11:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: him because he was in, he made an appearance in the recent Avengers Academy of Infinity comic.
• 1:11:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so that I had no clue that this character existed.
• 1:11:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: So when I saw him having the opportunity to read him actually in decades ago, it was super cool to see queer person represented not necessarily like, in makeup for half of the time.
• 1:11:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, sorry.
• 1:11:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is the story that inspired Anthony Oliver to come back and use this character.
• 1:11:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it would be imprinted on Anthony specifically.
• 1:11:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: is any representation, good representation?
• 1:11:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, but it was just cool to see Captain caps like relationship with him and how he valued him as a person.
• 1:12:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I enjoyed that.
• 1:12:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Bernie as well, like they were all there to support him, especially towards the end.
• 1:12:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Jack Monroe, Black Crow, the Falc, and there's a bunch of characters running around.
• 1:12:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you have any thoughts on the Sisters of Sin?
• 1:12:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: visually really cool and I like how they all had different like powers.
• 1:12:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I thought really bad for the one that looked It is good for the other ones, but um, I would like to see them come back.
• 1:12:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it would be a lot of fun.
• 1:12:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Have they come back?
• 1:12:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: They have come back.
• 1:12:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's actually several stories.
• 1:12:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: I could do a Patreon on these guys.
• 1:12:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have some ideas.
• 1:12:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: What the sister pleasure specifically comes back and changes her name to launch.
• 1:12:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh,
• 1:12:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: One of the things about the story that I find very frustrating, but it's also Captain America, like I hate you skull, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, but I'm not going to kill you.
• 1:12:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Even though you have murdered millions of people, I'm not going to kill you, right?
• 1:12:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he's going to turn the red skull over to the authorities who can more appropriately judge him, but we've seen Capcomit murders on the page before, so this story I find frustrating.
• 1:12:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: who knows how any of us would react when we were giving that situation, right?
• 1:13:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like killing something, you're right, getting, he's killed a people on the page before, but this is like a metaphor for an ideal.
• 1:13:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Feel like it was a him just kind of grappling with almost killing a part of himself too, because he's been fighting this battle since World War II.
• 1:13:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And being displaced from time, like, I don't know, maybe there's a part of him that, like, if he kills this guy, like, what does he have to fight for?
• 1:13:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And especially with all the stories that are leading up to this, we're all about how like America kind of frankly sucks.
• 1:13:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: or has like not done with people well, grappling with an issue of faith right now.
• 1:13:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's interesting, I mean, the parameters of this were in a Reagan America during this time, which is a very different time that, you know, the stories of queer people, Native Americans, and Black people all used in this story as well as Jewish people are all very relevant to the time period.
• 1:13:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've talked about some of those in earlier episodes, but cap at the end of the day, one of the reasons he doesn't want to kill the red skull is
• 1:13:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: The red school's just been renting a ha ha ha, I brought you down to my level.
• 1:13:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you kill me, I'll carry that into the next life.
• 1:13:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now in modern comics, the red school's almost taken like I'm a fisto like presence, like he's like a floating evil that can like infect people like the shadow king almost.
• 1:14:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you look at like what he wanted and what his connection to that is and it's quite twisted.
• 1:14:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then it's the pathetic heart attack that just knocks him over in the end.
• 1:14:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because in the end, that's all these old terrible people are.
• 1:14:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't want to say this about saying it.
• 1:14:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, isn't that what we're all hoping for right now at this point?
• 1:14:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, like being American, so like sucks that that's personally to wish for somebody's death has never has never been in my personality, but now it's like, I don't know.
• 1:14:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: If I had the chance, I don't
• 1:14:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think it's okay, because we open this story.
• 1:14:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I wrote in this episode with the story of Gay or Gelser, which is one of several stories like this, but this man has been remembered as a national hero, right?
• 1:14:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: We live in a country where I think as Democrats or progressives or even queer people, we want to play by the rules.
• 1:14:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: We want to have the moral of this indecency, because then I don't know how he's offered us.
• 1:14:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that we always have that luxury, not that I am advocating for anybody doing anything, but protest is important, standing up is important.
• 1:15:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: The great ethical debate of if you could go back in time and kill Hitler as a baby has been around for nearly 80 years now, you know?
• 1:15:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: What are your thoughts on the KOG Elsa story to open all this?
• 1:15:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't heard that story, so it was the context was super helpful.
• 1:15:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I went and regards to the parallels to this, to the comics that you had me read, because I can see it's about all about that choice, and then how he was honored afterwards of being at Hero.
• 1:15:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I got, I had.
• 1:15:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can't think of a situation where that would happen in modern day, but who knows?
• 1:15:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think we have a lot of modern stories of people who sacrifice their lives to fight evil regimes, not in America so much, but some things like whistleblowers, etc.
• 1:15:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when you go to places like Nepal or India or Japan or Russia, I mean there's there's a ton of stories out there North Korea has a lot.
• 1:15:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: right and the government's ability to bury the truth and to take out people who offend them is one of the signs of fascist regimes, frankly.
• 1:16:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's inspiring to see people strong enough to fight back.
• 1:16:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's crazy to be living it rather than studying it though.
• 1:16:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's intense.
• 1:16:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess it's that, that's more of what I was trying to say, like being in it at the time.
• 1:16:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just a difficult to see a way out of what we're kind of faced with in general.
• 1:16:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: So just to have, I was just home visiting my family in this past weekend and just put trying to, like, talking about how to repair, like, the way I'm, again, being in the United States of the way our country is handling itself.
• 1:16:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can't see a solution.
• 1:16:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So again, that if somebody took action and ended the,
• 1:16:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the federal administration that we have, I don't, I can't, I still can't see that fixing the problem or beat the world.
• 1:16:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when you knock the head pin down, it does change a lot of things historically, because the, the, the support is garnered from loyalty to a particular person, even when that person is insane.
• 1:16:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a lot of direct hitler Trump comparisons there.
• 1:16:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I remember early on in my show being like I'm not going to have political conversations but like it just feels like we got it out like people who listen I hope you are finding some of the words you wish you could speak out loud present here while we remain vague but it's a tough thing to watch.
• 1:17:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Derek, I always appreciate your trust in your thoughts.
• 1:17:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know that this would not be your ideal episode to participate on the Grimalk and Billion podcast when we're talking about fascism, but I really appreciate you taking this journey with me.
• 1:17:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've really learned to respect your friendship and your opinion over the last few years and just an honor to have you here every time.
• 1:17:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, I, well, I wanted to let appreciation back to you, like having, providing these opportunities to make you us, all of this community that is being, you know, that you have kind of fostered here.
• 1:17:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Think about what we're all dealing with in the current and then how it's just kind of like, a never ending loop, it seems like with humanity, I'm, you get me in a wrong head space and I will downwards by it real quickly, but again, just, I appreciate the opportunity kind of just dissociate by associating in a way.
• 1:17:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's nice to have like every one of these conversations, every historical anecdote, every comparison from then until now, it's taught me something new each time because I didn't know the story of gay or galcer either until I researched it specifically for this conversation.
• 1:18:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now I won't forget his name.