Latest / The You Project / #2152 Is Ambition Good For Your Mental Health - Bobby Cappuccio

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#2152 Is Ambition Good For Your Mental Health - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I got a team. It's a you project. Of course.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: It is Robert Capucco, all the way from the other
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: side of the world is joining me today. Very happy.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Love him. You love him, High Champion. How are you?
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: How's your day going or been? Ah?
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Des been all right? How's everything on the other side
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: of the wall?
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  Speaker 1: Greg, That's quite good? Just navigating life and all the
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: stuff that we do. Trying to help a few people, Bobby,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: trying to keep Ron and Marry afloat, bless their little socks.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Trying to finish my study, trying to get my steps in,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: trying not to be too much of a fraud based
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: on what I teach and coach. Do you ever feel
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: like a fraud? Do you ever feel like I don't
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: even do this thing that I'm saying? Do you ever
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: feel like that.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Sometimes more than others? Have you ever listened to Pitt
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Shepherd's tad Doc.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I have not. We love to meet a Peter. We
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: haven't had him on for a little while, but yeah,
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  Speaker 1: he's one of my f He's such a good dude,
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  Speaker 1: tell me about it.
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  Speaker 2: He has an interesting perspective that I completely align with,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: where if you don't have some level of impostor syndrome.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: It's kind of intellectual dishonesty. If you're in a world
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  Speaker 2: where you have to constantly be learning and growing and
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: reinventing yourself as things change every thirty seven seconds, it seems,
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  Speaker 2: and you feel completely certain and self assured, you're either
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  Speaker 2: a sociopath, you're either a con artist, or you're a
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  Speaker 2: little bit delusional. And he was talking about where a
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  Speaker 2: certain dose response of impostor syndrome, as much as we
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  Speaker 2: villainize it and try to avoid it, is very healthy
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  Speaker 2: for us, and it's a good sign that we have it.
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  Speaker 2: It's a matter of are we defined and paralyzed by
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  Speaker 2: it or can we frame it, utilize it, learn from it,
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  Speaker 2: and employ it for our own growth. I thought it
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  Speaker 2: was really a fascinating ted talk.
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  Speaker 1: I like that also, maybe we can just recognize that
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  Speaker 1: it's there and go huh okay, okay, you could you
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I don't feel good. Yeah. It's like, and I've said
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  Speaker 1: there's probably too many times, but I think we have
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  Speaker 1: the capacity to both feel like a fraud, but at
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  Speaker 1: the same time intellectually understand we're not a fraud. You know,
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  Speaker 1: these two things can coexist. Like I've felt many times
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: standing at the side of a room or an auditorium
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  Speaker 1: and someone's up the front introducing me, and I've got
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  Speaker 1: my little lapel mic or my headset or whatever I've
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: got on, and in about twenty four seconds, I'm going
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: to walk up on stage. And in that moment, you
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  Speaker 1: know where you're looking around, and there's somewhere between eighty
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: people and a thousand people who are going to look
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  Speaker 1: at you for the next hour. And I just feel
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  Speaker 1: I know I'm not but I feel so insecure, so
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  Speaker 1: out of my depth, so unqualified, so not smart enough,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: all these things that I feel. I experience this in
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  Speaker 1: the moment and all the other shit like this will
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: be the day you fuck up, while knowing well, Craig,
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  Speaker 1: you've done this thousands of times over four decades or
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  Speaker 1: a version of this, You're probably going to be okay,
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  Speaker 1: you know, but that doesn't real give me a lot
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  Speaker 1: of comfort because my body believes my emotions more than
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: my logic. So nonetheless, you just stroll up there and
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: you just you go. I know it's probably going to
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: be okay, but I don't always feel that be the same.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's a constructive strategy when you just acknowledge
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  Speaker 2: what you're feeling. There's a lot of self help wisdom
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  Speaker 2: out there that says, well, you want to avoid negativity.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Now if you're feeling something that's uncomfortable, like a pastor syndrome,
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  Speaker 2: and that for some people or for everybody to varying degrees,
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  Speaker 2: that could be an uncomfortable feeling. But rather than moving
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  Speaker 2: away from it. Susan David, she wrote the book Emotional Agility.
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  Speaker 2: She's brilliant, and she talks about effective labeling as a
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  Speaker 2: lot of people in that space, do identify what exactly
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  Speaker 2: you're feeling, lean into it, define, get as clear as
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  Speaker 2: you can within that moment, because it will change your
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  Speaker 2: in eurobiology and where is that will mitigate the intensity
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  Speaker 2: of that feeling. So I think naming it, recognition, acknowledgment,
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  Speaker 2: and acceptance, it's not a bad strategy in the moment.
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  Speaker 1: I think being able to recognize what you're feeling, knowing
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  Speaker 1: it's normal and plowing on is you know, it's part
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  Speaker 1: of it. But I was thinking before we went live,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I was thinking, what are we going to talk about today?
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  Speaker 1: We had to chat about one thing we maybe we're
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  Speaker 1: going to talk about. We definitely didn't talk about this,
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  Speaker 1: but this is the way. So maybe I want to
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  Speaker 1: chat to you about today self help concepts or ideas
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  Speaker 1: or memes or standards that get wheeled out as wisdom
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  Speaker 1: that are probably not so wise, and especially from a
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: BLOKEOHO for quite a long time, and they're still up
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  Speaker 1: everyone you can go listen to. Had a podcast called
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: The Self Help Antidote. I remember talking to you about
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  Speaker 1: that title years ago, and I think, how do we
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  Speaker 1: because there's very much, including from me, and of course
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  Speaker 1: I get things wrong, and I'm sure I've given advice
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  Speaker 1: that was bullshit, and I'm sure I've said things that
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: were bullshit. So I put up my hand as well.
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  Speaker 1: But how do we filter through the overwhelm, you know,
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  Speaker 1: the avalanche of self help ideas and personal development memes
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  Speaker 1: and personal growth concepts and figure out what's kind of bullshit?
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  Speaker 1: Like one I'll give you one of my examples, maybe
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  Speaker 1: to start the wheels. But just there just seems to
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  Speaker 1: be so much stuff. I think for a lot of
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  Speaker 1: it must be hard to figure out what is actually
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  Speaker 1: good advice, what is solid science, what is even psychologically
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  Speaker 1: kind of valid, or what's what do we actually know
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  Speaker 1: versus what do we think? And one of the ones
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  Speaker 1: is it's like, you know, if you put your mind
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  Speaker 1: to it, you can do anything. I'm like, well, that's
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  Speaker 1: just not true. It sounds great, but you can't do
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  Speaker 1: anything you set your mind to. And I understand the
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  Speaker 1: spirit of the message. It's lovely and my thing is,
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  Speaker 1: well you can. I don't know you, but I'm pretty
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  Speaker 1: sure you can do much more than you're currently doing.
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  Speaker 1: You probably got more potential and capacity than you think
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  Speaker 1: you have, right, you can probably do some amazing shit
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  Speaker 1: that right now you don't think is even possible for you.
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  Speaker 2: That is what I's a bit out of range.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like, well, you know what I want
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  Speaker 1: to do. I want to run one hundred meters in
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  Speaker 1: nine point nine seconds. Will Craig you get to it.
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  Speaker 1: You just stretching and running and training and do some
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  Speaker 1: players and you just yeah, you can do No, you can't. No,
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  Speaker 1: the white sixty two year old from fucking Hampton cannot
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  Speaker 1: run one hundred meters in nine seconds. And not every
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  Speaker 1: young girl or boy can be a pop superstar because
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: there's a finite number. You know, if there's a million
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  Speaker 1: in Australia who want to be a pop superstar, that's
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  Speaker 1: a problem because they ain't all going to be because
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  Speaker 1: not everyone can be Not everyone can win a Nobel Prize,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: not everyone can win Mister or Miss Olympia. You know,
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  Speaker 1: it's just like we want to be positive, we want
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  Speaker 1: to be proactive, we want to be empowering and supportive,
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  Speaker 1: but we also don't want to tell people lies about
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  Speaker 1: what is actually possible.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think what you're saying there before when you
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  Speaker 2: take a look at how do we discern between what's
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  Speaker 2: true what's false, there's a couple of levels. There's what
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  Speaker 2: is validated empirically and where's their lack of evidence, and
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  Speaker 2: then there's what's real for me. I think you become
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  Speaker 2: highly susceptible, especially with self help being literally every other
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  Speaker 2: person's page on social media. You become susceptible to ideas
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  Speaker 2: and when they're emotionally provocative in the absence of clarity
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  Speaker 2: around you. So when I hear you say like you
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  Speaker 2: can do anything, I don't want to do anything. I
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  Speaker 2: want to do something because my identity, because my values,
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  Speaker 2: my personal goals, my responsibilities compel me to that thing.
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  Speaker 2: So anything is out of range. I will never play
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  Speaker 2: in the NBA, and I couldn't give a shit less
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  Speaker 2: because like that has zero deep visceral meaning for me.
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  Speaker 2: I can appreciate it in someone else. If I'm not
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  Speaker 2: the world's greatest ballroom dancer by this time next year,
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  Speaker 2: does a ball to me? So what's true for you? Like,
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  Speaker 2: what is it that reflects your values, your strengths, and
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  Speaker 2: there's some hints there. Get really clear on your point
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  Speaker 2: of view, then you could take a look at someone
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  Speaker 2: else's point of view and start to weigh it. One
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  Speaker 2: is this relevant for me? Because everybody's trying to tell
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  Speaker 2: you how you should think, how you should live your life,
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  Speaker 2: what time you need to get up in the morning,
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  Speaker 2: what time you need to go to sleep, how many
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  Speaker 2: I mean? And a lot of that stuff is really
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  Speaker 2: useful because it's based on science and well being optimization.
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  Speaker 2: Others it's identity based. It's basically saying, if you want
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  Speaker 2: to be worth anything, you need to do this, And
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  Speaker 2: usually it's you need to be a little bit less
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  Speaker 2: like you and a little bit more like me or
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  Speaker 2: or we whatever tribe I belong to. I think that's
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  Speaker 2: a bit dangerous. And once you're clear on what you
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  Speaker 2: want and what your values are, okay, well let me
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  Speaker 2: evaluate this based on what someone's saying. And for me,
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  Speaker 2: it's not like, where's the proof of this, where's the
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  Speaker 2: disp proof it's universally true? Is this person speaking facts
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  Speaker 2: or they speaking opinions? What's their line of evidence for
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  Speaker 2: what they're saying? Where can I find information that's credible
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  Speaker 2: to either this or show that this might be a
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  Speaker 2: little bit folicious or you know what, it might be
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  Speaker 2: useful for me in certain circumstances. But I'm not going
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  Speaker 2: to take somebody else's rules for living as my identity
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  Speaker 2: and use it as a general broadbrush for how I
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  Speaker 2: paint my life.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I think I agree. I think, you know, paying
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: attention or believing paying attention is not bad, but believing
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  Speaker 1: automatically somebody that has never met you, has never had
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  Speaker 1: a conversation with you, has never does not understand your
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  Speaker 1: genetic potential or your personality or how your mind slash
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  Speaker 1: brain works. Listening to something they said or paying attention
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  Speaker 1: to something they wrote and then taking that as gospel
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  Speaker 1: because you like them is problematic, you know. But the
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  Speaker 1: truth is there are some people who go O old
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  Speaker 1: mates said, I can do whatever I want, there are
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  Speaker 1: no limits, But there's literally a T shirt's all over
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  Speaker 1: Australia that's got no limits, you know, no limit. I'm like, well,
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  Speaker 1: fucking heaps are limits. So that's a cool saying on
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  Speaker 1: a cool T shirt, but that's not any insight into
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  Speaker 1: the human kind of potential or human potential in general.
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  Speaker 1: I think helping people not get misled. I mean, I
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: don't know. I want to be positive and supportive, but
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I also want to be practical in real world. You know,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: you are, the things that you need to do to
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: get where you want to go are going to be
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  Speaker 1: often hard and uncomfortable, and also maybe you won't reach
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: that level, maybe you'll go beyond. Who knows. But I
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  Speaker 1: think it's trying to keep people inspired or at least supported,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: but at the same time having a somewhat accurate insight
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: into their potential without self limiting. I mean, I know
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: that's complicated, but I just see people getting disappointed so
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: much because they've believed someone who told them bullshit. And
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: it could be about their potential, or it could be
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: about a supplement. Oh if you take this, then that
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: they take the supplement religiously, nothing happens. I go, well,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: of course, because they're fucking selling you a product. I
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: don't give ash. They'd I have no insight into how
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: this will interact with your physiology or your capacity biologically
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: or sporting in a sporting sense.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Well, there is so much there. I mean, we've talked
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: before about my suspicion around outcomes. So very early in
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: my career, I used to work with this lady who
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: I was very close with. We had a great friend,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: loved her, but she would always have this thing with
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: the team members the staff that would drive me crazy.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: And she always said, Okay, here's the result we're looking
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  Speaker 2: for from you, and you need to go out and
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: figure out a way to accomplish this, or we'll find
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: someone who will. I was like, you kind of need
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: a better internal training and development program, and I think
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: we're going to have a lot of turnover with that
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  Speaker 2: approach and.
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  Speaker 1: A terrible approach.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it might be even a little bit
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  Speaker 2: worse than that. I think you're being a little bit
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  Speaker 2: kind there in fact, But I always had this thing
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  Speaker 2: about outcomes. The only thing that matters is the outcome.
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  Speaker 2: And then as I started to learn a little bit
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  Speaker 2: more and examine my own motivations and my own developmental
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: process and the people who are on my team. I
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: started to realizing, no, it's not about that at all.
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  Speaker 2: It's about process, about what's your process. Because if your
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: process works, and if your process is observable, modifiable, you
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  Speaker 2: can evaluate it, the outcome is going to take care
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: of itself. It's kind of like that the thing where
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: my friend friend of mine used to have this great analogy.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I've used it a lot where I'm a basketball player.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know why I have all these basketball analogy
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: analogies today. Yeah, but I'm on a basketball team and
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: I have a couple of really bad games. I mean
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: it's abysmal compared to my baseline level accalent. And I
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: go to see my coach and I say, Coach, I'm
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: really struggling out there. The coach goes, yeah, yeah, I
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: see that. I said, what do I do, Coach? How
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: do I pick up my game? And he says, well, Bobby,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: it's simple, and he reaches behind him, is sitting at
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: his desk and grabs a basketball and he says, you
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: got to get this ball into the net more of
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  Speaker 2: the time. Now He's absolutely right, And at the same time,
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  Speaker 2: that advice is absolutely shite. So what's the process? So
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I think I think the process, I think what's again,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: what's the value? What's what does this mean for you?
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  Speaker 2: Because if you're just looking for that outcome but you're
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: not attached to how to get there and what it's
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: going to take, and there's nothing there for you, it's
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: going to be a hard road and I think you're
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: going to again fall prey to Well, I could get
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: you there in thirty days with these biohacks. You probably can't,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: but I have so much emotion invested in the outcome
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: when something's really important to me. The process might be painful,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: but that pain is no longer the.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Price that you have to pay.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: It's the investment you're willing to make. And I think
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: that's a strong point of distinction.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I think I love that. I want to get a
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: little bit philosophical just on this point. So you know,
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  Speaker 1: the outcome is I want you to get the ball
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: through the net. Score Well, get this thing through that
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  Speaker 1: thing more times, ergo score more points. We've got a
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: better chance of winning. Beautiful. What's the process? What's the
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: process or what's the protocol? What's the thing that I
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: need to do to create the outcome that we want
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: so we're more successful. Those two things really matter from
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: an outcome and execution and box ticking perspective. But then
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: for me, it's also very much about the experience I have.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Like I've done some things where I did the thing,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I dicked the boxes, I followed the protocol, I got
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: the outcome. In other words, I succeeded. But in the
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: middle of the box ticking and the protocol following and
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: the outcome creating, I fucking I hated it. That wasn't me.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I didn't enjoy it. I didn't love it wasn't my
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: natural habitat or place or thing or I think there's
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: the you know, so I no judgment here, just empathy
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: for people who do a job that they don't really
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: enjoy or love. And I know a lot of people
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: have to do that because they've got to make ends meet.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: So nothing but you know, respect from me. But I think, yeah,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I like people think I'm really driven because I do
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: a lot and work a lot. I'm actually just I
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: just I've never wanted to do I've never wanted to
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: have to rely on doing things that I hate or
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: do not like to make an income to survive. So
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: for me, it's it's always been near the top of
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the list, apart from you know, many times more importantly
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: than even the dough is is this fun? Will I grow?
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Are these people that I'm working with awesome? Am I loved?
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: And can I love them? Do I just get out
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: of bed and fucking love going to work? And if
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: most of that is yes, then I'm excited. But if
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: it's efficient and effective and it produces the good outcome,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: but the experience for me as the person doing all
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: this shit is no good, I'm out.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I think that's where that's where reality sits. If you're
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: doing what you love, you're going to have more resilience,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: You're going to be more perseverent, you're going to be
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: more creative, you're going to be more self aware. You're
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: probably and if you're more self aware and other aware,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: you're probably going to have greater emotional intelligence and be
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: able to collaborate. And like Shakespeare was talking about that
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: in the one hundred and sixteen sogn It, it's this
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: beautiful statement. I mean, I think it was in reference
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: to one of his apprentices had actually seduced one of
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: these people he was in love with. And so that
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: was kind of a bad motivation. But what he said was,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: let me not to the marriage of true minds, admit impediments.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Love is not that which alters when the alteration finds
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: or bends with the remover to be removed.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Oh no, okay, like I stop, stop, stop, stop fucking stop. Firstly,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: say that much slower and what I love your crazy
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: little buddy identic memory, Brian, what is that from? And
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: say it slower? Plays and thank you.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: So he his one hundred and sixteen sonnet. He wrote
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: loads of sonnets, and I believe it was about someone
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: who he was apprenticing or caring for, mentoring seduce someone
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: who he was involved with, and it really hurt him
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: and sat upon reflection and just wrote about the essence
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: of love and how my love roots you in a
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: way where you're steadfast. Where the next line was, oh no,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: it looks upon tempests and is not shaken. Right, so
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: when those storms come, you know you're able to ride
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: them out. That it's it's that love that keeps guided
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: and on that path. And I think that's beautiful. But
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: like you said, not everybody has the luxury of doing
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: something they absolutely love, because sometimes there's this responsibility. I
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: got a family to look after, and that's reality, and
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: that's admirable. Looking back. Early in my career, there were
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: certain things in my job hated and what I started
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: to learn to do was how do I take something
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I really love and integrated into this so something tedious
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: is now meaningful even even enjoyable, right, like meaningful first
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: and foremost and maybe even enjoyable. And one of those
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: things was, you'll relate to this cancelation calls. So, for
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: whatever reason, my boss thought I was a very motivating
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: person when I was a kid. So somebody go, yeah,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I just want to cancel my gym membership. Get Bobby
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: on the phone with this person. It's like, oh my goodness,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I hateed that, absolutely hated it because of the nature
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: of the call. Usually when they're calling it to cancel,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: they're not in a really great mood. They're not enthusiastic
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: about speaking to you, and the expectation was Bobby's going
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: to save them, which is problematic in and of itself,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: but I felt a lot of pressure. I started to think,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: what do I really love about being a personal trainer?
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: And I love guiding people towards Back then, it was fitness,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: not necessarily well being, fitness based solutions that really open
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: up more possibilities for them in life. So get on
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: the call. It's like, I'm not going to try to
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: talk them out of canceling their membership. I'm going to
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: ask questions and try to talk them in to well,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: what's the next best decision for you? Like you had
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: all these goals, you cancel your gym membership? Fine, we
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: honor that. Where does that leave you?
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Right? Like?
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: What happened to all those things you were working towards?
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: And what I start to fund is when I was
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: just trying to facilitate a decision, not only did they
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: cancel a lot less of the time than when I
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: was trying to get them to not cancel. Yeah, I
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: also found meaning in those calls. I was able to
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: even get a little bit fun. And if you know,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: they didn't they still wanted to cancel their membership, so
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: be it. That's where they were when they made that call. Fine,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: But that's like one way where it's like, how do
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I take something I love, something I value, and integrate
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: it into something that might seem repetitive and tedious but
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Have to do. Yeah, yeah, I think I should clarify too.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: I was thinking as you were talking, I was thinking,
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: I hope I didn't infer or imply that everything that
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: I do under the banner of work or career I love,
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: because I definitely don't.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: But I love the broader you know. It's like I
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: don't love. I can almost say didn't. I don't love,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I don't hate, but I don't love the work of
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: doing a PhD. I don't think anyone does right. Maybe
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: someone does right, but it's but it's important in the
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: context of my goals and you know, building things that
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: I want to do. It matters to me, and so
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I'm very happy a big picture, I'm very happy to
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: be doing it. But in the moment, a lot of
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the things that I in the macro I enjoy and
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I'm glad. But in the micro the minutia, they're at
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: the coal face, they're sitting at the computer, they're reading
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: countless journal articles, the you know, trying to figure out
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: what your you know, your results and your data from
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: your studies means. And it's fucking it's not fun at all.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: It's not joyful, it's not you know. But the big
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: picture is you know, it's it's worth it. So I'm
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: not saying every day is you know, a Disney movie.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Some days kind of suck the fat one, but it's
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: you know, it's just being able to go. Overall, I'm
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: in a space that I'm pretty passionate about. I'm doing
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: things that I want to do. Most of the time,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I'm heading in a direction. I'm learning, I'm growing, I'm evolving,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm kind of improving myself. And in
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the middle of that, most of the time, I am
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: not anxious. Most of the time, I'm somewhere between calm,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: content and pretty happy. And you know, I think that's
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: like in career counseling, it's so much about not that,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: it's so much about matching your skills with the job
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: and you're in come and all of that matters. But
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: then how many people do I know and you know,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and our listeners know, and maybe our listener is one
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: of these people who knows. But where from the outside
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: looking in? Conceptually, they're killing it, they're successful, they've got
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: a big profile, they've got a great position in the organization,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: they're earning big dough and but they're sad. They're anxious,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: or they're unfulfilled, or they're scared, or they don't sleep,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: or they resent someone who works next door to them,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: or resent three people, or and they don't get out
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: of bed and want to go to work. They do
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: it because they feel they have to go to work,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: or they do have to get you know, I go.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I think we really need the traditional career thinking, planning,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: you know, navigating, negotiating. We need that because you know,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: we've got to pay the bills, we've got to have
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: a life, We've got to you know, build a career.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I guess maybe. But then also it's like, yeah, where
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: will I be happy? Though? And if I'm earning one
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty grand, will two hundred grand make me
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: thirty three percent happier? It's thirty three percent, not twenty five.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Everyone like, you know, if I'm if I'm if X
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: makes me pretty happy content? Will two X make me
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: hysterically happy and content? The answer is usually not really,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: well probably not, so it's for me even you know,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: while most you would think decisions around business and career
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: and even money should be all about the money and
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the career and the business, I don't think that's true.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: I just don't think that's true. I'd much rather do
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: something I love. I feel fulfilled, I'm helping people, there's meaning,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: there's purpose, and I'm making half of what I would
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: have had I taken a different path. And that sounds like,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, that's all well and good. But I know,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: like I've had lots of offers to do other things
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: which would be more dough, but I just go, I
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: don't want that lifestyle. I don't want that job. I
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: don't want that role in I don't want to be
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: tied to one company doing one thing. And now I
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: can't do all the things that I currently can do
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: because I don't have a boss.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know, if you have a sick relative
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: that extra money might be a necessity. But for me personally,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: all things being equal, I would rather earn less money
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: doing something that I love than a bit more money
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: doing something that I absolutely can't stand, or even worse,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: worse than hatred indifference. I'm completely apathetic to this. This
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: has zero meaning for me. I think that for me personally,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: that would be very, very hard. This is I think
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: what we're talking about. DC and Ryan define this as
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: integrated motivation. It's like the sick kid scenario or the
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: sick cat. And I'm not comparing my cat to a kid,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: but I love my cat to bits, love him, don't
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: care what anybody thinks. Tomorrow, I'm not going to sleep
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: very well because he is going to He's going for
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: a procedure very early tomorrow morning, so he's got to
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: go to the vet and he's got to be put under.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: And I know he's gonna be miserable that night. And
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: he's already he's already a needy kind of guy to
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: begin with. And I know he's gonna wake us up
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: about seven times in the night, and by the third time,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be going absolutely mental. And I'm definitely
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: not gonna be having a good time the fifth time
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: he wakes me up. But do I love it when
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: he wakes me up?
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Yes? Because I love him.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: It's the assets, So I love waking up constantly. Do
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I like it? Not at all miserable when it happens?
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Do I love everything involved with this cat? Yeah? Absolutely.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I think that's kind of like with your job. Like
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: if you're traveling all the time for work, do you
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: love having planes the lead arriving at your hotel at
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: one o'clock in the morning, you've got to get up
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: at five. Probably not, but you cannot like those moments
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: and still love the essence of what it is you
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: do for a living.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you love that cat, bro, you love that cat
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: What's his name and what I'm kind of warming up
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: to sort of?
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: His name is Harry. Well, hope, hope Harry gets through
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: with I'm sure he will with Flying Colors. We're going
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: to wind up soon, but I want your thoughts. I'm
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: going to give you a word, and I want you
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: to riff on it however you or just to share
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: what you think, because I used to think it was
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: a great thing, the word I'm about to share with you,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: or the concept, and now I probably think it's context dependent,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: but i'd you don't know that it always equals a
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: good outcome. And the term is ambition. Term is ambition,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: like should be ambitious? Should? Is is that a I
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: don't know? Is that? What do you think?
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: And no?
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's context dependent, Like what does the ambition
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: mean to you? Is it trying to align you with
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: something you highly value? Or is it trying to fill
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: a void that you're not even sure why? It exists
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: because you never got really clear on what your values
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: and compass is. So, like we were talking about earlier,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: you're susceptible to everybody else's interpretation and interjection of who
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: you should want to be and what you have and do.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: And is it something that increases or decreases well being
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: yours and others? Is it one hundred percent intrinsically or
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: inwardly focused? Or is there an external end state that
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: involves other things other people? Does it tear you and
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: others down to lift you and others up? So there's
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: a lot of things to add to ask there. I
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: think ambition could be a highly self destructive thing. Ambition
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: could be one of the greatest motivations and drivers in
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: your life. It could shape your life and define it.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: It could be the thing that you look back when
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: you're eighty five years old in your rocking chair. I
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: don't know if you have a rocking chair, but they're
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: kind of cool. I hope you do have a nice
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: balcony and a porch to put it on as well,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: and you're like, wow, that was a life well spent.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: You know, everything that has a result of the ambition
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: that I possessed and led me, guided me. So what
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: I think most things are yes and no. It's all
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: about context. Context is king.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I took about this concept called destination disappointment with scripts
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: and individuals and teams, and it's this idea that we
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: get we arrive at the destination that desired. You know,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: that could be a financial one, it could be a
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: physiological one, it could be a career, maybe even a
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: geographic one. But like the thing that we wanted, we
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: get it the place we wanted to be. Now we're
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: in that place metaphorically or literally, and we get there
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't have the attached experience that we thought
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: we would be having. I don't feel, oh, wow, I
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: wanted to be at the top of this mountain. I'm
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: at the top of the mountain. I'm sad, I'm disappointed.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I'm frustrated. This mountain isn't what I thought it would be.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: What's the relationship between what we think is going to
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: be when we get there versus the often very common
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: real world experience of ticking that box, achieving that goal,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: and then why is there this disappointment so often?
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Again, because I think a lot of our beliefs and ambitions,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: if you frame it this way. They're not ours. They've
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: been installed in us. So it's not like, oh, you know,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: I've got my life and I've got this idea for
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: my life. As much as this idea has me.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: That is very good, that is very good, that's worth
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: dwelling on. Yeah, it's almost like, you know, there's me
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: the I am in the middle of my life. But
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I had this software installed in me at this age
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: and for that and because of that installation, because of
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: that programming, I now have this story in my head
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: that X y Z equal success, and I have another
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: story that when I have X y Z, I'm going
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: to be great. Things will be great, I'll be great.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: And then but you don't have meaning in the journey,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: the destination might be more likely than not fairly disappointing.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: What are you willing to suffer for? If you're willing
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: to suffer for something, that's that's passion. If you're if
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: you're innately drawn to something for its own sake, I
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: think that's a good sign. Also, you know, what do
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: you what are you one usually good at that other
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: people in the same area kind of struggle, Like, nothing's
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: more annoying to someone who is really bad at math,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Let's say, and they hear something from another kid going, oh,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I love math. Math is easy. Math is fine. Now,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: it's not always going to be that way, but what like, yeah,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: that kid probably has a strength and a value around
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: something that math gives them, whether it's problem solving, whether
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: it's playing with frames, that's gonna probably serve them. So
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I think those are all really important questions to kind
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: of ask yourself. And the difference between what Cal Dwek
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: was talking about growth versus fixed mindset. Are you more
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: motivated about who you are progressively but becoming or the
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: identity of who you want to be right now? And
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: be seen as going back to the basketball analogy, because
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: why not you know, I played zero basketball, but I
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: seem to be talking about it all night. Where John Wooden,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: who in collegiate sports was probably a coach, winningest basketball
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: coaches in history probably, and his thing was if his
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: team lost a match, he didn't get upset. He would
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: get more upset if they won but did not play
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: absolutely as hard as they could. Where if they gave
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: everything and they organized and set up and executed all
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: of those plays to the best of their ability, they
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: just happened to not be better than the other team
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: that night. For him, that was a win because all
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: in and putting full effort, whatever that is for you
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: in that moment and learning. So do you get as
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: much from the losses as you do from the winds
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: because of the reflection it affords you, Like if you
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: really love something like communication, where I know, I've had
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: some abysmal events and it hurt and I hated it,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: but in retrospect I loved it because wow, look at
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: what I learned from that. I can actually get better.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: You know, Yes, yes, I think that's important to examine.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Oh dear, I would I always think about my early
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: days of speaking of groups. When you say something like that,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, it was when I sided people. It
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: was bad. I think they think I'm just beating myself.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: And then like it wasn't I know, it wasn't really
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: that bad. I go, I'm not being humble. It was bad,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Like it was bad. You would be astound that if
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: you saw what I did compared to you know, my
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: skill and my ability and my delivery these days, which
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: is not to say I'm the high water mark, but
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: from where I came even I can say yeah, well done, harps,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: that's some pretty good progress because you were vug and terrible,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: you know it is it's that you come away, you
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: go all right, well this didn't work. That didn't work.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: I should not wear this shirt because they can see
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: my sweat. So that's a bad idea. I should probably
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: for me anyway, not have twenty eight slides. Also, maybe
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: don't look at your feet most of the time. Maybe
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: lift your head and look at the group. That's probably good. Also,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: maybe ask at least one question to the group. Oh yeah,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: that's a thought. And maybe don't recite your bloody preso.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just and so if people look bored
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: or they're scrolling on their phone, you might want to
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: change it up or do something. You know, there's just
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: so much out of it where you then you get
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: to the point where you can It's like riding a motorbike.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I've been riding motorbikes since I was five. But when
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: you first start to ride a motorbike and you never
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: have there's like cognitive overload. I've taught lots of adults
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: to ride and something that for me is almost autonomous, right,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I don't really I just need to pay attention to
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: the traffic ahead of me. But I don't need to
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: think about riding because I ride, you know. But then
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: and so you develop any skill to the point where
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you become better than proficient, You become a master at
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: that thing. But it just took it took so long
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: to get there because there's all these moving parts that
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: you need to be aware of that eventually that will
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: just be hardwired where you don't have to think about that.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: You're just you just know that. Now, can you write
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: a motibike? Can you write a motibike?
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: I can write a vaspa.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, question remains, can you write Robert Capuccio dot com
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: is Bobby's website. You can find him on LinkedIn, where
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: he frequents and shares many many good videos. Also on Insta.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: But your videos goes on on Insta and LinkedIn. Yeah,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: you're real more LinkedIn.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: I throw stuff on Instacas. I have the video done,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: but I'm not really I'm not really actively engaged in Instagram.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: It's not my favorite platform.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: But I got to. I've got to say. Your reels
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: and I'm not just pissing in your pocket, but your
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: reels are so good. If you're not on LinkedIn. Join
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: just follow Bobby, don't even follow me, just follow Bobby
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: and just have a look. There's quite a collection now
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: of really good, very very insightful, great teaching, well produced,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: so well produced they look like their TV my videos
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: look like dogshit. So I don't know what you're doing,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: but keep doing it. I think you might be cheating
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: using your wife, who is a filmmaker. You might be
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: using her, I think. But yeah, your video, she told.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: Me about the laving.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: But she's it. She makes you, she makes you look good,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: so definitely, you know, don't fuck that relationship up. Harry. Yeah,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: all right, mate, we'll say goodbye affair. But enjoyed, enjoyed
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: that today, and thank you so much, thank you,