Latest / Healthier: Building Health & Fitness Businesses / How NADclinic reached 40+ countries as a supplier | Iain de Havilland | Healthier Ep 10
Transcript
- speaker-0: The next 30 minutes are going to massively increase your ambition and vision as a founder. Ian from NAD Clinic takes us through why it's important to stick to a singular mission and vision whilst being flexible on the details. speaker-1: It fits into our fundamental philosophy and direction, which is scalability, democratization, giving access and making innovative or really high quality longevity stroke human performance products. speaker-0: how to take on the hard problems that no one else wants to take on. speaker-1: I decided to focus on that particular aspect of the business because that enables scalability. Having a a single clinic, even if it's all the bells and whistles in the world, it's infinitely not scalable. It's one environment. speaker-0: and everything ongoing global. speaker-1: best performing region is AIPAC. Japan's probably our best performing country. China's catching up fast. speaker-0: Ian is selling huge amounts of products in China, in Japan, countries that most UK founders aren't focused on. Listen in, increase your vision, learn how to execute. It's going to be a good one. Ian, you have been in the NAD plus space commercially for over a decade, first getting into it in 2015. What did you see then that others didn't see? And what led to the point that you're at now where you are? the place to go for high quality energy plus when I go to so house that's you on the wall. When I look online, that's you supplying whoever it is that I might buy from. So where did this start and how did you stick to your guns to build to where you've got to now? speaker-1: Okay, well so ⁓ I guess where it all started, ⁓ I got introduced to N D plus ⁓ early twenty fifteen. I'd made an investment. My my previous career was in was in finance and I've made an investment in a in a rehab business. ⁓ we were trying to reinvent the wheel a little bit around ⁓ the rehab industry, which is ⁓ an old antiquated model. And we wanted to shorten the time spent in residential rehab and introduce a ⁓ an aftercare program. And to to support this we were looking for ⁓ protocols to enable kind of fast tracking of detox in and getting people ⁓ you know, through the through the the detox process in in in the rehabilitation and then in getting back to their their careers, their families, etcetera and someone just said to me, ⁓ through my networks, you need to check out N D plus. I had no idea what it was. ⁓ did a little bit of research, ⁓ realized there was a At the time there was around six facilities, I believe, all kind of prominent rehabs around the world who were promoting AE plus. There'd been a couple of really high high profile celebrities who were waxing lyrical about it. I tracked down ⁓ well did some research around where these position were pos were positioned. ⁓ four of them I believe were in sort of US, California. One was in Mexico and one was in South Africa. ⁓ I I spent some time in the US, learned a lot about what NED Plus does ⁓ from the science and the medical teams on a on a physiological ⁓ basis and on a cellular level. And more importantly, I did a course of NED plus myself. after after five days, I felt you know, rejuvenated or, you know, to a level I'd not felt for a long time. It felt sort of brand new mentally, physically. And so I started to sort of question why was this a protocol just just to support addiction and and detoxing and why couldn't it be sort of ⁓ for kind of busy executives, people like myself, ⁓ who were looking to sort of ⁓ you know, reset the clock, reboot. ⁓ and no one could give me a real ⁓ de definitive answer as to why not. And I ended up doing a little bit more research, ⁓ tracked down the original pioneers of of NED Plus who were actually based in South Africa, got to know these guys, spent some time down in in SA, ⁓ and became good friends. These were ⁓ researchers, psychiatrists, and a a particular gentleman who was kind of into three generations actually of of of working with NED plus. And I found out they had a ⁓ a a formulation that was on a medical register That still is today the only formulation globally that's actually on a medical register for a a a true medical indication, which is alcohol detox. Spent some time in the in South Africa, got got involved with these guys. Reeling real realizing with my sort of business mind that addiction is is not, you know, really scalable. ⁓ I needed to reinvent the wheel. So what we did, we came up with we set a small R and D team down in Cape Town. We We developed ⁓ six pillars of wellness philosophy that we still use today. And we went about ⁓ developing some protocols to to kind of ⁓ you know, to reposition NED plus less about being a fundamental addiction protocol, but more being about human performance. ⁓ at the time longevity wasn't a thing and and I guess the most prominent ⁓ sort of pillar that we targeted was anti aging. And and then we sort of set about trying to sort of sell and promote NED plus at the time we we had one product, that was how ⁓ NED Clinic was born. The name just came around because we could have chosen anything at the time. NED plus wasn't, you know, well so well known and on trend. ⁓ and so we we we decided to name it NED Clinic. ⁓ and yeah that's how we all started ⁓ f for us. Yeah. speaker-0: Amazing. So you, so at the beginning, were you in a position where you were having to educate a market or was it because you were focusing on those rehab clinics, they were already kind of semi educated or at least looking for solutions because you in this market way before David Sinclair was writing books about, that focused heavily on NAD +, right? speaker-1: Yeah, I mean obviously I was educating myself along the way. ⁓ there were a lot of once you started getting into the scene and into the A D plus and kind of ⁓ let's say ⁓ your performance cell cellular sort of ⁓ medicine, there were a lot of people that kind of online who I could track down, you know, ⁓ globally effectively. But there was no there were no main players, so it was about educating people. and it was a sl it was a slug. It was a slug two, three years. ⁓ and we we realized that to really make it work, ⁓ we'd needed to kind of showcase it bet better. So I decided to set up ⁓ a couple of clinics. One in in Cape Town, which we still have today actually in a in a suburb of of Cape Town called Century City. And the other was in the Harley Street Medical District in London. And the reason we chose Harley Street was because obviously it's probably synonymous as being the most well known and credible medical district globally. ⁓ so I took some real estate there and we set up a a physical, you know, a physical clinic. ⁓ it was practical. It wasn't, you know, like like the sort of longevity clinics you see today, you know, where people, you know, invest millions and millions of pounds or dollars into into these environments. We kept it functional, practical. It was less about being a commercial business. It was more about being somewhere where we could showcase our products and protocols and also have a an environment where we could invite people in to try to try our products. But ultimately, because we were I think we were the only guys doing an ID plus at the time. ⁓ we were getting an a lot of business. So on a on a commercial basis, we were seeing a lot of traffic through there. But fundamentally it was only for two ⁓ two really key inter interventions really. It was either empty aging, ⁓ at the time it was getting more and more known for And the other was alcohol detoxing. ⁓ so th that was really what it was we were sort of garnering business for at the time. speaker-0: Amazing. And what did those kinds of inflection points look like along the way? Because now it's your, the scale you're at, or do you want to give a quick idea of the scale that you're at with whatever you're happy to share publicly? And then what were the inflection points along the way to get to that point? speaker-1: Well where we're at today, and there's the I guess the growth has really accelerated ⁓ I guess since since really since COVID. ⁓ started around two thousand two thousand and ⁓ and nineteen and not we'll come to that I guess and why that happened. But then it was sort of ⁓ exacerbated through COVID. we're in forty plus countries, close to fifty countries, ⁓ across five continents. ⁓ we're predominantly a B to B ⁓ based business. So our core core c clients effectively are the world's leading clinicians, physicians, ⁓ medical spas, ⁓ hospitality now, which is leaning more and more into into longevity, into human performance optimization, ⁓ yeah, pro sports. ⁓ so it's it's becoming more and more more and more broader in terms of ⁓ our reach. our I guess our our best performing ⁓ region is APAC, you know, Japan's far away one of our ⁓ probably our best performing ⁓ country. China's catching up fast. We've got great team on the ground in in China and and obviously in in Tokyo as well. And across Europe we dominate. ⁓ although we're anchored in effectively anchored in in London, you know, London and UK is not actually being one of our kind of target markets. ⁓ and the reason behind that, just to put a big bit of colour on it, ⁓ is because in the UK has got this ⁓ strange anomaly where where regulation isn't enforced or around the the NED plus like it really should be. And we actually spent a lot of time lobbying lobbying ⁓ MHRA about this and ⁓ so NED plus in the UK is is considered a dietary supplement. ⁓ and not a medicine even in a sterile ⁓ as a sterile product, i.e. an injectable, ⁓ such as a an IV or a subcutase pen. and so that kinda lends itself to a lot of opportunity for for NED ⁓ plus or NED brands, you know, 'cause many of them are selling sort of precursors as well, sort of must stuff masked as as NED plus. ⁓ in the UK, you know, as as ⁓ w without any kind of ⁓ checks and balances. So speaker-0: This where I can go on Amazon, type in NAD and buy something that is presumably a lot of rubbish and a lot of filler. speaker-1: Hardly anything. Abs absolutely. I mean kind of doctors and and physicians and you know and clinics all typically buy buy from us, but yeah, they they're kind of the direct consumer market and you know, actually a lot of a lot of a lot of ⁓ med medical ⁓ practitioners ⁓ you know, to purchase products from on a on a pri price basis rather than sort of looking at the provenance of the product and looking looking at the validation and the credit behind them and how they're produced. speaker-0: You chose to do the hard thing early on, right? So I guess there was another world in which you became a brand where you did the thin brand layer and someone else did the logistics, someone else did the infrastructure. But you chose to take on the hard thing, to do the infrastructure play, and that seemingly has now paid off. Was that a difficult decision or was that all you would ever do would be to actually kind of go to the... Go to the source, become the source, do the difficult stuff because ⁓ that becomes a moat and allows you to be the B2B business that you are today. speaker-1: Well to be honest, ⁓ we we had to focus for I decided to focus on on that particular aspect of the business because ⁓ because it that enables scalability. You know, having a the a single clinic, even if it's you know, all the bells and whistles in the world, you know, it's it's infinitely not scalable. It's one environment. So I've I was very fortunate I spent a lot of years, ⁓ even though I was working for sort of regulated finance brokers in in London or in in New York. ⁓ I spent the majority of my career in finance based out in Asia. So effectively I was I was used to sort of targeting highly sort of you know highly populous ⁓ you know ⁓ countries or regions and and looking and and crossing borders with exotic, you know, exotic markets. So I I was kind of that was kind of you know part of my process and thought, you know, thought process that if we can establish a brand, establish a product, you know, garner the credibility in in in places like Europe, UK, ⁓ US, then ultimately and infinitely it's it was much easier to scale the markets. So to to achieve this, I needed to set up the infrastructure. So it's not been easy. It's been like it's it's it's incredible, incredibly difficult, especially when you're dealing in in medicines that typically people don't understand and they're not conventional. ⁓ so crossing borders with products, ⁓ yeah, it's p it's been tough. ⁓ we you know, over the years we've achieved ⁓ our growth really is by effectively licensing out our our IP or cr our you know, our our our ⁓ our formulations, our knowledge and setting up ⁓ you know, satellites in different countries which can support ⁓ you know, re regional population and ⁓ and yeah just and that was the kind of main reason that we've ⁓ taken this route. speaker-0: You mentioned that you're in a medicine that you, in your words, that like is not sometimes not understood. guess there's also, how does that play out? Do you find yourself then having to get involved with research to help show the benefits of NAD plus to help understand it more? you find yourself engaging with skeptics and worrying about them or do you focus just on the kind of people who ⁓ believe who are kind of on board already and you just focus on getting them the highest quality product in the best way possible. speaker-1: I'd say both. it's things are getting a lot easier these these these days. ⁓ once upon a time, you know, they say I was just a sales guy, effectively. ⁓ but having spent such a long time, I guess, in the industry now, I feel like I've almost got a PhD in in energy plus ⁓ you know therapy. So yes so it's ⁓ it's much easier these days. I just I guess the real ⁓ tricky ⁓ s point in this whole ⁓ say conversation is ⁓ there are there obviously there there's NED plus which we are we've stuck to our guns and that's what we promote. ⁓ and then there are the precursors and the precursors being NMN which is probably the most well known and the other being N R and Nicotinamai Riverside that's this, you know, also, you know, widely known. Objective is to achieve the same outcome is that to elevate NED plus you know, we believe in the science behind NED plus ⁓ we obviously we We believe in our formulations and our and our our production methodology and our products are the you know, the best the best available on the market and certainly the levels of accreditation we've achieved, you know, are second to none. But ⁓ yeah, it's it's there's always an argument, ⁓ a good value and a valid argument if you put a bunch of scientists around the table, much the same as guesses if you put three lawyers around the table, you know, and there'd be one guilty party and you know, and they'd all they'd all sort of get it get him off and probably one when we get found guilty, but I mean for me, I believe strongly, you know, I've got so much conviction in NED plus as a product. You know, I've done so much research over the years. So we've got a great science team, ⁓ well two science teams actually, ⁓ based in different parts of the world who who share I guess our devotion, passion, belief in in any D plus and ⁓ I guess you know, going on from that, we've obviously broadened our ⁓ portfolio products ⁓ a lot over the past s ⁓ few years to you know we've got almost 150 products in our portfolio now but ultimately all of these products still support the six pillars of well six pillars of wellness philosophy that we we we built and designed in twenty between twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen and they all kind of complement the NED plus therapy. you know, they're all there to sort of, you know, optimise human performance, both on a on a, you know, physio physical level and on a mental level. And you know, introduce and and support longevity effectively. So ⁓ you know, we're proud of our the things we've achieved, I'm proud of the the conviction which I've retained, you know, for the past decade plus. And ⁓ yeah, and I d I don't see that changing any type of thing. speaker-0: Hey, Will here from the future. If you've enjoyed this episode or you're enjoying it so far, then you will love our note. The note is a weekly email that we send out, which includes our learnings and playbooks from the people we're speaking to, includes any invites to future events. We're building healthier, the place for founders in health, fitness, and wellbeing. And it includes any new episodes. So go to healthierco.com and sign up and we'll see that. I'd love to talk about innovation. You mentioned there is it hundred fifty products plus that you've now got. speaker-1: Close to a hundred and fifty scooze, yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, 150 SKUs. I, since we last spoke, been using one of them, the NAD ⁓ AirX. So you are innovating, right? It seems like sometimes the advice for scale-ups and startups is to be stubborn on the vision or the mission or the thing that you are trying to solve and be committed to, and then flexible on the details. So ⁓ as long as you can, I guess, maybe get the benefits of NAD +, into as many consumers as you can. Profitably, maybe you could be flexible on the ways in which that happens within, so like as long as it's kind of safe and efficient and effective and those types of things. How does something like NAD AirX come about? How do you think about innovation? You have a pretty sizable team now. How do you make sure that innovation is happening within a large team? ⁓ speaker-1: Well any D ⁓ you know, NED RX is is I I think it's I I'm confident in fact that it's gonna become, you know, the the jewel and the crown of everything we've achieved. ⁓ but how did we get there? I mean, I've just seen a massive s shift in in in the way this business is is moving over the past two or three years. I think a lot big part of that has come about because of the introduction of GLP ones over the past five years. familiarity with people using injectable self injectable pens ⁓ has become a normalized kind of everyday routine for both the men and women. ⁓ and obviously that's filtered down into performance medication, you know, and so effectively there's been a leaning towards ⁓ away from expensive clinical ⁓ you know, interventions and protocols where people have got the flexibility and ⁓ to do to d to s interventions ⁓ in their own time, at their own place of choosing, whether that's at home or an office or, you know, while traveling. And and we've, you know, we've been very supportive of that. We've got we've so we've developed a bunch of DIY products. Obviously we do ⁓ subcutaneous pens. ⁓ and so that's made me think we've seen There's been a especially in Europe and the UK, there's been certainly been a dip in, you know, the affordable income. We've seen a drop off ⁓ and low clinics clinical partners with ours and we've got well over a thousand clinical partners in Europe alone, you know, reporting back to us, listen, you know, numbers are down, what can we do to sort of, you know, to generate business. So, you know, over the counter sort of products. We've we've s we we opened a big range of over the counter products and as part of that the the DIY products. such as the the pens started the the whole movement and then sort of gets this gets you thinking about other routes of administration and how we can deliver optimal ⁓ amounts of performance medication. ⁓ obviously NED plus is the first one with NED RX in in a in a reliable and safe form. So NED RX very, very simply is it's a technology b what's been around for fifty plus years. it's used globally to support ⁓ you know, conditions such as C O P D or asthmatics, ⁓ respiratory illness or to support ⁓ big populations in in po in countries that have got pollution problems, you know, i.e. India, China. So I just copied effectively that technology, DP it's called DPI, dry cold dry powder inhalation. ⁓ And re-engineered it to be able to deliver nutraceuticals. So instead of delivering conventional drugs, it's going to deliver nutraceuticals. Our first formulation was NED plus, why wouldn't it be? It's very, very difficult to achieve. But you have to sterile mill the the particle size ⁓ of the active product down to between f one and five microns. And there are very few facilities in the world who can do this, you know, unless they're working with you know, large large conventional respiratory drug manufacturers. ⁓ so, you know, we've been very fortunate that we we we've had some support from a a big organization in Asia and they've helped us achieve this and we've got this we've managed to put a AirX ⁓ to the market. It's taking two two long years of R and D. ⁓ you know, a bunch of effort, some with some brilliant people, a lot of work with ⁓ a lot of cool scientists and ⁓ research facilities. ⁓ we're we're just about to go to speaker-0: Awesome. There's some really interesting stuff there from listening to it, from how that innovation has happened. So you've got, you're pulling on your strengths, as you say, like to get down to the particles down to that size, you are one of or the only people in the world that could make that happen. So you're thinking about your strengths, you're reusing an existing technology from a different space into your space, which is, I spent 12 years in corporate innovation and that's a kind of common. theme of what happens. And then you're thinking about the pains that your customer has and given that you're B2B2C, you are thinking about the pains of the B2B as well, thinking like how can they make some more revenue ⁓ whilst serving the customer as well. So think there's a really interesting recipe for innovation there for anyone listening. speaker-1: also it it it thought fits into our kind of fun fundamental philosophy and and you know and di and direction which is scalability, democratisation, giving access and you know, making making making let's say innovative or you know really high quality longevity stroke human performance products, you know, affordable to the masses. Our our core focus for this particular product is big population bases. We're about to to launch it in India. ⁓ We with with some really interesting ⁓ partners over there. And ⁓ just to give a bit more colour on the on the numbers, that particular device we've chosen ⁓ has very, very simple. But the company we work with behind that sell over fifty five million of those units a year in India alone. Wow. Well not nothing to do with longevity, nothing to do with human performance, just supporting respiratory ⁓ conditions. That's it. So you know, well trodden path there, so we're just flipping flipping the narrative a little bit. So, you know, why don't you just take a you know a product ⁓ which is which has now become super well known in the in the in the industry NED plus and apply the same logic to to to to something you're kinda used to using. ⁓ so we're really excited and one of the USP one of our biggest friction points working with NED plus over the years and and if if I would have ⁓ you know, chosen to sort of cash out a little bit. I could have got into the NMM market or the NR market and really leveraged, you know, the the brand and the the the networks that we have, but I never have stuck to N D plus. But one of the I guess the the friction points of the ri of working with NE plus it's a very delicate molec molecule and also it requires coal chain typically. The formulation we've developed if I using freeze dried ⁓ DPI ⁓ technology it's alleviated that. friction point. So now we do not need coal chain. So I guess a lot of these countries where we really gonna be targeting China, Asia, ⁓ continental Africa, India, you know, see keep retaining coal chains really, really t it's really difficult. You know, the hot, you know, humid climates and it's no infrastructure's not always great. ⁓ so we've alleviated and removed that that that point as well. So it's it's it's really, really exciting. speaker-0: You don't shy away from difficult things, which I think is just an awesome lesson in a world where a lot of founders first thing to look at is like, do we, how do we do just like, you hear a lot nowadays, like brand and distribution, just focus on that. Whereas you do have a great brand, but a lot of your mode is taking on, taking on really big tough problems and then compounding over time. You are, and one of those things is that you're in all these different markets and that's again, not. that typical, even for ambitious companies out of the UK, would, usually the well trodden path for them is to go UK and then maybe look at the US or maybe look at some other places in Europe. You've talked about Japan, the continental Africa, you've talked about China, you've talked about India's big markets. Are there any kind of lessons that might be interesting to draw from either how you make those decisions or how you've gone about actually turning those into profitable markets for you. speaker-1: Well, there's always been a strong rationale and reason be why I've chosen those markets. Japan came along by chance because I spent a lot of years ⁓ and our teams spend a lot of years look researching where we can cross borders or where there's a there's a there's a way that the the medical system allows us to to develop these products and where the obviously where there's an appetite for for for longevity and human performance. Japan's an easy one. ⁓ well not an easy one, it's took us a while to get it going, but ⁓ First and foremost, I was very fortunate that I met two people out there who were really as passionate as me in this space. And so we it's you know, I'm a big believer in investing in people. And if you find the right right people with the right mindset, it it's it's much easier. So I had boots on the ground. With those boots on the ground and do some research, ⁓ we learned that, you know, medical practitioners in Japan are kind of above the law, effectively. So ⁓ a medical practitioner in Japan. can write prescription and import a medicine, even if it's a an an off label medicine like NED plus or like some of our other products, not conventional, and import them. So we set up an infrastructure locally, and we we we managed to find a a route to market that was, you know, alleviated all those kind of typical regulatory friction points. So we've got a we've got a market really into you know into ready for for for longevity, ready for human performance. You know, everyone thinks that everyone lives to, you know, a hundred anyway in Japan, but it's kinda not the case. ⁓ and was there was a a huge appetite for what we were doing. And we today we've got over a hundred and twenty top tier partners just in Tokyo alone, which we're we're really proud of. And I spend a lot of time in in Japan these days as well. Which I love. ⁓ Africa Obviously it's where the that goes to the genesis for the business started and South Africa. ⁓ it's one point five billion people in Africa. ⁓ always the final frontier of anything, certainly the final frontier for longevity. ⁓ I needed to find a product where I could make it work commercially. I think I've got that in NADRX. I didn't have it with anything else, including the subcutaneous pens because they're just out of reach. We've got a great business down in South Africa, but it's very localised. And there are not too many countries in Africa with the kind of same same levels of wealth as South Africa. ⁓ that we could sort of really focus on scaling. But I think we r we're now at a point where we're gonna use South Africa and our base down there as a kind of launch pad for the whole continental Africa. India much the same. India we never had the product and the with a price point that we thought we would give us access, we'd have that with AirX. And our core business, I guess, is is is still always been in Europe where we dominate absolutely dominate. And the reason we dominate in Europe with with our portfolio is twofold. One, we've got the only formulation of NAD plus which is on a medical register and then we should be able to be able to transfer into into Germany. So we've got the same import and and you know, regulatory ⁓ accreditation ⁓ in in Germany that we're able to sort of leverage through ⁓ rest of Europe. ⁓ and two, as our business is evolved over the past few years. I I've been the clinical business in London. I got to know a lot of the major compounding pharmacies in in j in in Europe. Most of these were based in Germany to be honest and some in Switzerland and they were had great portfolios of products but they had terrible aftercare, terrible service and their delivery times and and their infrastructure was really, really poor. Sometimes you'd be waiting for, you know, for weeks for for orders. So I we spotted a gap in the market there and we became a a Boucle farmer business effectively. ⁓ we we outsourced the the the the manufacturer of our you know most of the schools which we which we promote in Europe and which complement ⁓ our own protocols. But what we do is we deliver we guarantee deliver in twenty four to forty eight hours. And we we offer a a service which is, you know, second to none. And we've sort of developed an ecosystem and infrastructure and you whereby we've been able to scale and take a lot of business away from this huge compound of pharmacies, you know, talking sort of real big players in the market. And almost like a a s a sort of a an express you know, pharmacy business kind of thing where we're where we we sort of excel in service. Our products are great as well and we've got anchored to the brand we've built. through our NED LEN NED plus products. So it's been great. speaker-0: ⁓ And finally, you now do have a decent sized team, but it seems like you are still heavily aware of the detail. How do you see your role nowadays? It sounds like you're kind of coming up with a lot of these innovations and making a lot of these decisions. ⁓ Are you the kind of Silicon, I mean, I think I know the answer to this one, but you're not the kind of Silicon Valley founder that just thinks that their three roles is kind of hiring the right people, having enough money in the bank and setting the vision. What do you see as your role now that you're at the scale that you're at, but still feel like you've got a lot more distance, like a lot more to achieve? speaker-1: really enjoy this role, I really enjoy the job. I think we're just really at the start of the journey, to be honest. ⁓ you know, I think it's taken this decade ⁓ for people to understand and, you know, what longevity human performance is. ⁓ I love being more involved than probably most people. I'm really excited about the AirX products and project and I'm really excited about another project I I'm about to launch called ⁓ fee peptides and ⁓ with with this project we're gonna be doing, you know, applying the same kind of logic, the same sort of levels of standards and, you know, and ⁓ working with, you know, a lot of leading sort of educators and academies and universities around the world and sort of try to re educate or educate ⁓ mostly physicians and clinicians and and ⁓ in the same way that we did with NED plus once upon a time because peptides I believe are gonna be supersede anything we've seen in i with NED plus and and all the other performance meds where we've been involved in, as long as they're done right. The problem with the industry is there is just so much noise out there and, you know, so much so much hysteria I guess on on social media and things like that. And you know we We try and cut through that noise and trying to deliver deliver on our promises. And ⁓ yeah, I'm I'm writing the mix. ⁓ you know, I'm gonna change my kind of own personal philosophy. I've probably still working a hundred hours in another decade or so. But ⁓ you know, I'm I'm pretty pleased with my own lun longevity and sustainability and I I've never felt better in my life, you know, I'm fifty five now and I feel I feel like I'm twenty five, so yeah. speaker-0: Excellent. Ian, this has been awesome. think anyone who's listened to this will hopefully have been inspired and motivated by the size of your vision and the size of the problems that you take on, but then also picked up some real interesting tactics and things to think about when they're growing their own businesses in health. So thanks so much. This has been excellent. And is there anywhere that people should go if they want to follow the journey? speaker-1: NED Clinic dot com. speaker-0: and indycleaner.com there we go. Thanks so much.