Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / The Strike, Real Housewives History with Guy Branum

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The Strike, Real Housewives History with Guy Branum · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We all like to think we've got a good eye
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: for a winning move, but when it comes to property,
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  Speaker 1: it's about seeing the bigger picture. More space, a shorter.
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  Speaker 2: Commute, somewhere near the sea.
• 0:11
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• 0:19
  Speaker 1: When you're ready for the next chapter, start with Ireland's
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: number one property platform, daft.ie.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales, her real
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: life Mr. Saving Serial Data and Serial Sisters. You'll be
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: life podcast. Listen in, listen up.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: Woof, woof.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: Juicy Scoop.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well, everybody, I am
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: in New York this week. I am so excited. I
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: am going to be on Watch What Happens Live. Yes.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: So make sure that you watch that. And then, of course,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: if you haven't already, go and get your tickets and
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: come to Vegas November 4th. See me Saturday, November 4th
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: at the Venetian for Juicy Scoop Con. It's going to
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: be so fun. And Please go to heathermcdonald.net for that.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: And then also I'm leaving New York and going to
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: meet your favorite Chris Frangiola. We will be in Red Bank,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: New Jersey on the 10th, this Thursday, August 10th. Then
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: we jump on over to Foxwoods in Mashantucket. And that
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: is August 11th. Then we're going to be in Huntington,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: New York on August 12th. And then I enjoy the
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: week in the Hamptons. DM me, hook me up. I'm
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: so excited. I'm going to be hanging out with my
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: friend Lisa. I'm going to hang out with Jill Zarin,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: with Luann. And then I'm doing a show at the
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: West Hamptons Theater on August 18th. And then I come back.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: But all the shows will be fresh and good. I've
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: got lots of things planned for you. Everything is at heathermcdonald.net.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: That's where you get all my tickets. That's where you
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: join Patreon. That's where you change your life. Now for
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: a wonderful interview I did with my good friend Guy Branum.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: who's kind of new to watching The Housewives. So we
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: did another deep dive. We did some Juicy Scoop history.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: We did some pop culture talk and kind of got
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: into like a psychological examination of these women, which I
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: always find so fun and juicy. So get ready for
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: a great interview right now. And here's Guy Branum. Thanks.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. This is another special
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: episode of Juicy Scoop History Housewives Edition. With a return favorite,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: my one-time office husband, Guy Branum, writer, producer, actor, model, showrunner, podcaster, whatever.
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: What I'm going to say is I may not be
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: your current work spouse, but like Sonia Morgan, I'm in
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: the blue book, okay? I get to wear the shoes
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: with the McDonald family crest.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Sadly, Mike. My current work spouse is my actual spouse,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: which is just not as fun as saying my work husband,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: my gay husband.
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: But I have to ask, you have a rich life
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: going on out here, but you are now formally on
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: strike as a writer and an actor. Have you picketed
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: just to see and be seen? Have you picketed just
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: to see who's out there? Because it's good some days.
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: Some days it's exciting. I saw Chris Pine.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I know. Listen. I completely support it, but this show,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: a couple people asked, can you still do your podcast?
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Can you still do stand-up? Some people don't understand how
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: it works.
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: No, podcasting, at least for me, when I started, I
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: completely owned and have sold, whatever you want to say,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: over this. So no, no one can tell me not
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: to do it. And thank God for that for the
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: last eight years, but yeah.
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: At any point in time, we have four to seven jobs,
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: and it's like, yes, I'm a guild writer. yes, I'm
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: a SAG actor, but it's like, I'm also, that is
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: not going to be my full-time job because it's never
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: my full-time job. You know, it's like doing podcasts are
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: always part of my life. Like, you know, doing standup
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: is always part of my life.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Good. Well, let's talk about another part of your life,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: which was you started watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: And you wanted to just, we wanted to talk about
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: the Kyle Mariso divorce because I want to ask you,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: a lot of people know my opinion. I've shared it.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: But I want to know yours through fresh eyes, being
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: that you're just kind of getting into Housewives now.
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: I think, well, also consuming it in a mega dose
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: like I did. You sort of like see the journey
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: and you see the arc. And, you know, Kyle is
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: the bedrock of Beverly Hills, a fundamentally more stable franchise
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: than New York, I would say. And like, yes, Ramona's
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: been there forever, but no one's saying Ramona's too stable.
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: But I think that... Kyle has been on this journey
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: of being the center and being the heart. And I
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: feel like she does also in this kind of like
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: mid forties, late forties kind of way. I think she's
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: on a journey. I've heard rumors about some degree of
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: lady on lady activity. I've seen a lot of cowboy hats.
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: And so I think she's wanting an evolving personality and
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: also like, you know, like, She has two sisters who
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: are sucking up all the bat shit. And I think
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: there is a part of her that wants to sort
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: of like have the space to grow and explore. And also,
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: Mauricio's got his own show. And I'm fascinated to see,
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: even though I think it is a fundamentally boring show.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Buying Beverly Hills with some people from his agency.
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Now, I saw that, you know, Kyle was not at
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: all part of it. And I thought it was because
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: maybe contractually she couldn't do it.
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: But I just heard from a good source, no, it
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: was that the network or the producers of it thought
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: that she would draw too much focus from, they wanted
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: it to grow on its legs of like the daughters
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: are interesting enough, Mauricio's interesting enough.
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: The daughters are interesting. I mean, my understanding of Kyle
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: is so much defined by you in the first season
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: of Beverly Hills in our office saying- Kyle Richards with
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: the hot husband. And just sort of that thing of like,
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: she's got a husband, he is hot, they've got relative stability,
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: and you just are like, oh God, I want that.
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: They were able to sell charming domestic comedy better than
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: anyone else. I mean, Ken and Lisa are a great
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: comedy duo. But fundamentally, they're having to do comedy with, like,
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: miniature horses and geese and stuff. And, like, they had
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: a real... You know, Farrah was... Not Farrah. The little
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: one was always good for a one-liner. Portia. Portia, yeah, yeah.
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: And then also, I think, there is something... Like, nothing
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: sells me on a man. Like, him taking... your child
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: from a previous relationship as his own. And the relationship
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: between Farrah and Mauricio, like, I love so much when
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: I'm in my neighborhood and I see that there is
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: a listing by Farrah Umansky, or she goes by Farrah
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: Brittany or something, or something. I'm just like, she went
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: into her dad's business, even though it's not her biological dad.
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: It makes me so happy. And so, like, you just
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: have to assume that I have to assume he took
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: the relationship for granted too much. And then, I don't know,
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: I feel like any housewife situation, there's always suspicion of cheating,
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: and he was the hot one. And I could definitely
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: see him having a little fun and not thinking it
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: could shake this very sound relationship that he has.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I've said this before, but I'll tell you.
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: But I need to hear it.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: For the first time, just recently on a previous episode,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: I said maybe their relationship wasn't always that great. And
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: they actually were really good in front of the cameras.
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: And that they led more secret lives. And she did
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: turn a blind eye to any discretions he might have.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: But none of them turned into like a girlfriend. It's
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: just like he had fun or whatever. But again, there's
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: still no evidence, real evidence of it. And then also
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: I just think, yeah, I mean, she's evolving like everybody else.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: She may be attracted to women. She became sober. She
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: lost weight. And then also just with anything, I mean,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: the relationship's long. Maybe she's just like not– maybe she's
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: like more annoyed with him. And I think maybe like–
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: She's not finding him as like fun and charming and
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: doesn't really want to put up with it anymore.
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: Do you think it's hard to be a real housewife
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: and be sober?
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, so much of it revolves around having
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: that third margarita and having a little bit of fun,
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: you know?
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: And so she was. She was a tequila girl and
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: now she's sober. But I think a lot of them
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: do become sober because as you get older, you should
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: drink less. That's just a fact.
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: And also she's been on it for 14 goddamn seasons
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: or whatever, you know? Like, it's a lot of time
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: to be sort of like going, woohoo.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Also, she's never looked better in her life. And what
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: is amazing about today's world is that you can be
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: the cutest you've ever been at like 55 than you
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: were at 25 because you have a better nose, better teeth,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: better things, and you're thin. Like, you couldn't... She looks amazing.
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: It's the revolution of Real Housewives that it really does
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: sort of center... the power and agency and sexuality of
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: women at that age. And, like, previously when you represented that,
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: it was as some sort of, like, joke or monstrosity.
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: And the fact that there are so many of them
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: and so many diverse takes on it, like, you really
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: do have to take it seriously. And, like, Dorit's the
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: best example of, look at a photo of Dorit from
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: when she was 22. Shit was not together. Like, at
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: 43 or whatever, shit is together.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can... Yeah, and she definitely just had
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: some work done because there's some night nurse, plastic surgeon
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: nurse that's saying she wasn't paid. Oh, really? So she
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: definitely had something done. No, I mean, yeah, you can
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: look amazing and feel really great about yourself and then
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: you have all this love. And if you're feeling like that,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: you're not also getting it at home. And maybe you
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: put up with that for a lot of years and
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: now you're like, no, I don't want to.
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: But I just– I wanted to believe in Kyle and Mauricio.
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: I want– Those like very stable relationships.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, are they fine? Have they always
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: been like this? But they're like, you know what? Let's
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: let the cat out of the bag so that people
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: will want to watch this season. And I'm going to
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: be a little more honest about it.
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: Well, like the notion of you have to go into
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: every season with an idea of what you're going to
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: do that season. The relationship between being produced and self-producing
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: is interesting.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: And the notion of Kyle saying like, Jesus Christ, I'm
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: doing this for the 12th or 13th time. Like, I
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: have to have... Step it up a notch. Yes, because
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: there have also been some seasons when she just tried
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: to do light family comedy and it's a little bit,
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: you're getting too full of yourself. With the dogs? Yes,
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: you're Kyle Richards. You have to cry. And, you know,
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: it really helps when she has a.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Speaking of crying.
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Okay. When Dorit got robbed.
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: And they went all over Kyle's house that night.
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: There is a moment that was caught by several of us,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: myself included, and people that watch it, where Dorit's saying
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: something and then Kyle goes, oh my god, stop! And
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: she looks right at the camera to make sure that
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: the camera was catching her getting this emotional moment. And
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: the girl has been working since she was four.
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: So she can cry. No. She can do this. She
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: can do whatever she needs.
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: Absolutely. She knows how to play the game, but also like,
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: you know, like Kim is a better actor than she is.
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: Like Kim can give you the real thing, but that's
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: also because Kim is drawing from the chaos and she,
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: Kyle is so perfect for reality because she has the
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: acting skills to be able to sell those moments, but
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: she also has the producer skills to be, you know,
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: watching and managing all of the dynamics. And I think
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: her releasing some degree of character growth to us this
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: late on is like, kind of impressive and also as
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: a gay guy I'm always going to be supportive of
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: if she and Mauricio had policies I support those policies
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: I would much rather they were allowed to fuck around
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: but also that house and those businesses and those children
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: are something that they take seriously and it's also like
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: I can understand not wanting to be public about something
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: like this when Portia was seven but Portia's like 15
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: now and maybe can understand you know.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean I've said this too. Like a
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: lot more people than the average person knows is living
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: like an open marriage.
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Where they're just kind of– but they're not public. I
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: mean they're not public figures, but they have money and
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: they have people. And since the beginning of time, people
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: have been like, have your mistress. We're not going to
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: get divorced. I don't care. I don't care to screw you.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: But in this case– They're like, if they thought it
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: was coming out or whatever, they're like, we can't really
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: hide it because our persona is that we're the hot,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: sexy couple. Okay.
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: I need to tell you about these gay guys that
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: So, older gay guy, works in fashion, and his, like,
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: no paperwork, long-term boyfriend, 40, multiple houses, they are not
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: in the same place very frequently, and the 40-year-old has
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: a career of his own, like, does his own thing.
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: And the 40-year-old found out that the fashion guy too much.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Now, how much older is the other guy?
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: He's like mid-60s, too much plastic surgery.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: But he had another boy in another house, but because
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: of medical issues, he hasn't been having sex with him.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: And like the 40-year-old got very upset. Yeah. And was like,
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: how dare you? And I was like, what I.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: You think these are your friends?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: These are friends of friends. And when I found out
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: about that, I was like, that's not playing the game.
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: Playing the game is being upset enough that you get something.
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean? Like, that's what you need
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: to do. But you are a much more sophisticated, like,
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: student of these dynamics.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I mean, I do think every
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: dynamic is different. I think there's some that are like,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: I don't care at all. And I think there's like
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: a billionaire who's like, listen, you do you, boo. I'm
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: not giving you half of my billion.
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah. But.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: We have kids together. Like, and I think for a while,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I think for a while that works until someone really
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: falls in love and wants to be out with that
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: person publicly or meet someone that has even more money.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: And they're like, I can divorce you now because this
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: person wants to be with me.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: Grabby third party is the thing I think is dangerous.
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: And like, you have to be really impressed if they
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: have been open that like Mauricio has avoided grabby third party.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: Like, Because that's, you know, I mean, maybe if this
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: is just a way of saying to the press, like,
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: you might see us out with someone. Right. Yeah. Don't
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: get freaked out about it. But, like, I want to
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: think about it in terms of them producing for the show.
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: I literally just came from listening to the Bethany and
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: Jill Zarin podcast.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Okay. Let's switch to that.
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: Them talking about.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: We'll pop up to that. Let's just talk about that
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: for a minute.
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: Them talking about the relationship between what's real and what's spectacle.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: Was fascinating. And them sort of like so parsing Bethany's
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: arrival to Bobby's Shiva and funeral was like really fascinating
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: to think about the ways that they are thinking about
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: those things.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Yes. And what was your thought? What, like listening, what
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: did you think?
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: I was impressed.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Do you think it was all, do you really think
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: it was a genuine thing or, I mean, listen, it
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: was really good timing and, on Bethany's part, the new
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: show had just aired and was getting, was being well received.
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: I've, I've not changed my opinion that she's a monster.
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: Like I've not changed my opinion that she's a monster
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: that with Jill fucking Zarin who got her on the
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: show and who, with whom she has a real and true,
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: I think fundamental friendship that she's like set on fire
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: for the last 12 years that she couldn't just like,
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: create some space for, you know, I was terrible too.
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: She kept saying that she was owning her shit, but
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: she had to be so alpha and controlling about everything.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, totally.
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: And Jill was like trying to process and clearly in
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: that way, you and I both have people in our
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: lives that we have not great, in not great space. And,
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: you know, resolution with some of them would be nice
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: because there are people who mean something to you. And
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: it just, it was hard. But talking about the way
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: that they both acknowledged that, Like, when Bethany was saying,
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: I don't know if I would have come to the
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: funeral if it were outside of shooting, that, like, that
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: was part of– that she cannot extricate herself from that
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: calculation is so interesting.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I did respect Bethany for being honest
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: about that. I may not come if it wasn't being shot.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: That– I can't believe more people aren't jumping on that because, granted, again,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: happy that you were honest about it, but ew.
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: Yes, yes. But the thing that bothered me the most
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: was that she was like, I'm the Michael Jordan of
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: Real Housewives, and I don't know if you would have
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: made it in the Hall of Fame because you dropped
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: the ball. And it's like.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she kept doing all this, like, you dropped the ball,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I handed it to you, fumbled it.
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: Like, oh God, shut up. Be a little generous, especially
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: at this point in time, but also, but there is something,
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: but also, Bethany is so smart in the way that
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: she expresses it as it is a sport, and the
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: way that each of them has to go in individually
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: with an idea for like that they are coming in
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: with five to seven different narratives and trying to wedge
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: those together into a storyline against each other how much
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: cabaret is going to be there you know how much
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: of heather spank's line is going to be on the
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: show like that every like everybody's trying to play five-dimensional
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: chess with and against each other is such an impressive
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: way of thinking about it.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: But I definitely feel like with the New York Housewives,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: and as entertaining as Bethany is, I just don't feel
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: like she's ever truly cared about any of the other women. No,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I mean... As real friends. She really hasn't, and a
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: lot of the other women have.
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: Yes, there's actual friendship. Ramona Singer's a goddamn basket case,
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: but she fucking has lunch with people. You know? Like
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: Ramona Singer, and she makes... talk too much about herself
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: but there is a way that she is keyed into
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: these parties she's you know seems to still be having
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: lunch with Heather Thompson who never gelled that much with
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: the cast you know anyway yeah and like I appreciate
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: that and like Bethany for those first couple of seasons
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: having somebody with one foot in and one foot out
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: is being really funny talking shit about them so valuable
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: when she came back and was just a monster shitting
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: on them constantly like the existence of her only friends
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: or her paid employees that half of her scenes were
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: her talking to a chauffeur you should be embarrassed you're.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Talking about like um which scene when was that no
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: she wasn't in that one let me see i don't
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: know if i have a cast photo of But okay,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I know what you mean.
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: When she came back.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, when she came back.
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: I'm friends with Carol for one season and then ate
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: Carol for a season.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: A cuppa. A breather.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: A moment for you. For a change. When you spend
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: your days looking after others, it's easy to put everyone
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: else first. So take a little time to think about
• 20:58
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• 21:02
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• 21:05
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• 21:09
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• 21:13
  Speaker 4: to find out more. Corn Market Group Financial Services Limited
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: have faced tremendous setbacks and yet somehow have found a
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Life is one long lesson of chaos.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I'm heading to the Emmys, and I have police complaints
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: filed against me.
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: what would you do if it was given back?
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Where did that need come from where you thought that
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: you had.
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: To succeed in order to feel loved? He said, I
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: have a work dad. I need a home dad. What
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: happens next? When I came in, he started crying.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: those hard moments that they go through. It's about what
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: happens next.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: I decided to risk it all.
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: I realized how valuable every day was. You're worth the work.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Listen, Dara, I'm not going to pull punches.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: You can use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Tell me what you thought about the Carol and Bethany dynamic.
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: I mean, it was... Andy is the part of this
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: game that is always hard for me to wrap my
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: head around. Carol was brought in to be a Bethany
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: who you can control more. She was there to comment
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: and make jokes and everything. And I fucking loved her
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: because of that. But bringing Bethany back when there's already
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: a Carol, I understand he was like, let's see what
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: happens here. And then it just fundamentally came down to, like,
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: Bethany wants to control people. And, like, Ramona, Sonya, and
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: Luanne are fucking agents of chaos. And they cannot be controlled.
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: And she can try to use her powers on them
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: as much as she can. And she can make them
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: look bad. But, like, she's only going to do so much.
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: And she just decided that she was going to own Carol.
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: And Carol played the game until she started pushing too hard.
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: And then Carol, like... The thing is, is I'm going
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: to say Carol was never really a real housewife until
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: fucking Bethany turned on her. At which point in time
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: we saw how, like how far Carol could go, you know?
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right. I always, I'm friendly with Carol. I
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: was like, Carol, you were the, you know, until it ended,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: you had the best of anyone because you were, because
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: you didn't have kids because you're a widow. You weren't
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: risking anything.
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: No banister.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you weren't risking anything. And you just kind of
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: were having fun. And you'd make some snarky remarks, but
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: they were pretty funny and they're pretty harmless. And you'd
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: be telling this story where you're like, I heard two men,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: one being Luann. She had all these funny little lines.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: And to the point where nobody was mad at her
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: or anything. But what happened with Carol and... Bethany kind of,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: and I don't know how much was on the show
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: or how much has been told on my podcast, but
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: this is my understanding remembering it, is Carol, everything was fine.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: And then Carol left for the summer when they weren't
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: shooting to be with a friend whose husband had passed.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: And while she was out there, Bethany came, was like,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: I'm going to come out there. And there was some
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: other friend of hers that was a wife of a
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: very powerful studio head. And so Bethany was really wanting
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: to meet that woman. That woman didn't want to meet Bethany.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: So when Bethany came to pick up Carol, Carol came like, bye,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: got her keys and ran out the door. And then
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Bethany took that as like a real snub.
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: No, she mentioned it on the show. Didn't invite me in.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, didn't invite me in, you know, and everything. And
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: didn't like that. And then after that, it was sort
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: of like Carol was kind of blindsided that she was
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: just like on a campaign to make her look bad.
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: Well, what's so funny to me is that it's a
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: mixture of of Bethany jilling someone, saying, oh, you got
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: something that I want, like, let me get in there.
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: But also with this element of just burning down relationships
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: that feels, I forget how much we talked about this
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: when I was here before, but like, I mean, Bernadette,
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: Bethany's mom, sounds like a piece of work. And you
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: get little feelings of the kind, like, You know, and
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: I'm sure she had a very, very difficult childhood. But, like,
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: you just get that sense that she is a burn-it-down person.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: Like, if you're not going to do what I want,
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: I'll destroy you.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: So, definitely. So, do you think these two are going
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: to actually hang out? I'm seeing Jill in the Hamptons.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: And Jill was very, very happy about this whole thing.
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: The thing is, is I think that they have an
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: organic and human friendship that predates all of this. And
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: I think that they are like, there are ways that
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: they are cut from the same cloth.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Well, they really didn't know. They really weren't like buddies
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: before the show. They barely knew each other before the show.
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: I think their energies work together. And I think that
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: like Jill is strong enough to stand up to what
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: Bethany breathes at her. But when I hear things about like,
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: I don't want to go to your gift bag party
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: or whatever.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Wasn't that the rudest?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: That's what I said. And she said it like three times.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I'm like. I said to Jill, I go, listen, if
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: you guys hang out without mics and cameras, fine. But
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: it's got to be her inviting you. It's got to
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: be her calling you and being like, come to my house.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I'm cooking. Do this.
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: You'll probably cut this out, but it reminds me of
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: a former friend of both of ours.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I will cut it out.
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: Who needs to let you know that she's a little
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: bit better than you and that she's real classy. Yeah.
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: And it's just like, calm down. We all know where
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: you come from. They come from the same fucking place.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Very true. Bethany was bitching about trying to
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: get a union together for saying that reality show stars
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: deserve to have a union.
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: But she's the one. It was so fascinating to find
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: out that she's the one who ended favored nations for
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: the housewives. It truly bonkers how little they got paid
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: at the beginning, but that truly does help you understand
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: the way that everyone's coming in, that everyone is at
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: a different level, everyone's at a different rank, and.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. She had the opportunity to do a
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: union thing, right?
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: And save favorite nations. And it was like, no, I'm
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: going to be Beyonce. I'm going off.
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: And it's also, I mean, it is.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm just saying. She's a very hypocritical person.
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: It's the hard state of Bethany right now because she's like,
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: the whole thing was I'm richer and better than you.
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: And now she wants to show you that she's doing
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: Chili's food crawls just like you. You know, she doesn't
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: know quite where to fit herself and it's, It's really
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: interesting because she does have such a wonderful natural skill set.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: But, like, it wasn't the skill set for a daytime
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: talk show.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: No.
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: She's not Kelly Clarkson. You know, it really is, you know,
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: skinny girl's a good angle. But I feel like there
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: was a more ripe, where would you put her? If
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: you had to put her in entertainment somewhere, where would.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: You put her? She was the best as a mean housewife.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: As a snarky, mean housewife that could be funny and
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: that could also laugh really hard at somebody else. But like, no,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I don't. I mean, I've heard, you know, some of
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: her rants and stuff and they're not particularly funny. But
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: some things that I do are captivating when she does
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: stuff on the show. Like, she's very smart and talented. But,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: you know, the best, the perfect fit was Real Housewives.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: That was the perfect fit.
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: It was the perfect fit for those first couple of
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: seasons when... Ramona was still able to say, you have
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: nothing and we'll ruin everything. To me, as time goes on,
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: I appreciate and respect what Luanne does more and more.
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: Because Luanne has this hard take of a character and
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: such an enormous weakness. She's a well-written character. She's a
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: fancy countess. who will fuck anything. Like, who really will
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: get down in the gutter. And she's always trying to
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: show you that she's fancy and she doesn't like using
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: curse words. But also, the minute a piece of tail
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: comes by, she's, you know, like, presenting.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: And yes that is all true I just hung out
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: with her she's built to last and she she gets
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: dudes and she is proud of how many dudes she
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: gets yes and she's not hiding it and she's a
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: little braggy about it and I love it good for
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: her and she's gorgeous yeah stunning and I'm like looking
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: at her face because we just hung out at her
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: friend's house And it's like she doesn't have any kind
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: of facelift or anything. She just is like a very
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: fit-looking person, which is great.
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: When you are hanging around with these people, are you
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: able to be fully yourself?
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean I have to get scoop. I'm
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: asking for scoop, but I'm also like this is just–
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I'm keeping the scoop for myself, some of it, because
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: I know she'll be like, now this is between us.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: And absolutely, that's why I'm able to keep the friendship
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: because I don't. There's so many things that I've known
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: that I've kept secret and then it shows up on
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: the show. And I'm like, well, at least people know
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: when they told me that I know isn't the person
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: that went to Demois or something.
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: You know, because also it's fun for people to see
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: it as it comes along. You don't want to know everything.
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: There's something so lovely. Well, and you enjoy it. Like
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: you more than like you love this world and you've
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: turned it into a career. But I also think you
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: are like an old school anthropologist. You are a participant observer.
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: You go– you can fully participate in their rituals and
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: then remove yourself from it and comment on it and
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: analyze it.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I don't know how, like, the future
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: will be. So there's this new– the new housewives.
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: Do you like these girls?
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I do. I think– yeah, you have to take a
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: minute to get to know them, you know. But I
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: love their style. I think it was smart to do it.
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: The second episode– I wasn't like, it was taking me
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: a minute. They went to the Hamptons and it was
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: in the winter and I'm, I'm watching it, but there's
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: this one girl and you know, she reveals that she
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: hasn't had sex in a year. Um, her twins are
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: one and they're all like, and then she says, well,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: you know, he was my roommate first, platonic roommate. And
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: then one day my mom was like, you should be
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: with him. And so I'm like, okay, you now, this
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: is the thing. Now you've revealed to the world a
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: pretty big deal.
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: That, you know, the sex life needs help. And even
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: if they bone in the next episode and she goes
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: on the reunion and said, since that trip to the Hamptons,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: we've screwed three times or whatever the world wants to hear.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: They think as a regular marriage or whatever. I just
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is, this one's going to end badly.
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: Would you ever coach someone? If you were allowed to,
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: if you could have like one phone call with a
• 32:27
  Speaker 5: new housewife every week and be their coach, would you
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: do that?
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Of course. Who would I coach on the new, I
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: don't know, there's these new girls.
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: Also, I haven't seen the second episode. Which one, was
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: it the Israeli?
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: No, it was the Indian girl who's in fashion.
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: Oh, okay, yes. She has the twins, yeah.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so she hasn't had a, yeah, so, and everyone's like,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: you know, oh, get into, and then of course on
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: the second episode, They have to do the lingerie thing.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: And I'm just like, no, we're going to get home
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: and wear lingerie. I'm like, there is no girl trip
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: in the history of girl trips. We're only on a
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Real Housewives girls trip. Do they then get in like
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: S & M outfits or lingerie? And I'm like, why
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: are you guys letting the producers talk you into it?
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I don't care how good your body is. The show
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: is for women and gay men. Why– Like, you're not
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: going to, I don't care that you went on a zimp,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: but you're not going to look good in it. Just
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: wear the sweats and be like, no, I'm not wearing
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: the lingerie.
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: Do you think it has to do with some sort of, like,
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: product placements or anything like that?
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: No, I think they're just, I think the producer, the
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: segment producer or whatever is like, we need to up it.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: So if it's not going to be a costume party,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: let's tell them to dress in S & M.
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Let's tell them to do some weird thing.
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: It's a girl's trip. You want to get them drunk
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: and have them do cartwheels.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: I mean, that's entertainment.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But even that felt fake. Like you didn't say,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: but like one girl was trying to do something like
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: with her legs on a wall, like a twerk. And
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: it just felt like– I just feel like so many
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: times now some of these seasons, whether it's OC or whatever,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: where they're like, okay, I clocked in. Let me go
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: down a slip and slide. Let me grab my friend's tits.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Let me throw a napkin in someone's face. Let me
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: yell at you. Is it– Is it nine yet? Okay,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: two more things and then we can go? That's the
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: way it feels.
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: Oh, that's interesting. The notion of them just trying to
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: give enough good tape so that they can get out
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: of there.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I've had them say that, where they're like, what do
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: we need to do to end this? And they're like,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: someone needs to start something, otherwise this whole night was
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: a waste.
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: That's interesting. I'm midway through Liam McSweeney's first season, and
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: the amount that it feels like she's just trying to
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: matter so hard is like so frustrating and it's like
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: tinsley's right next to her and tinsley of course never
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: mattered i never tried to matter um tinsley was so
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: useless um but.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Um tinsley's in love now with in real life or
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: with her no she got rid of scott that's for
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: sure I think she played with the idea of coming
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: back at some point or girls or whatever. But no,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: I heard that she is in love with someone who's
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: like rich and good and nice. And she's smart enough
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: to be like, I'm not going back on housewives and
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: fucking up something that could like be with me till
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I'm 90.
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: She seems to really want to be on that path.
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: And she's so gorgeous and so like cute. Like you
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: would think she would be able to, you know? But
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: it is also, I guess it's a harder and more
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: complex path of, you know, being a society person and
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: being married to one of those rich guys. I was like,
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: I was reading about her. She dated some prince for
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: a period of time. And I'm like, you know, get
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: a title out of it. Why not? But like watching,
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: that was one of the things I wanted to talk
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: to you about was my friend Matt Rogers loves talking
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: about the people who show up self-producing. And there are
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: ways that like, Truly, you know, I thought that Lisa
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: Rinna was amazing at creating moments. Yeah, she really was.
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: I was good at that sort of thing. But, like,
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: that's the kind of producing I can stand by. But, like,
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: Leah showing up with kind of, or, I mean, like,
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: I think that there's a real divide between the women
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: who are just batshit crazy, like Kelly Ben Simone, if
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: you will.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: And somebody like Aviva, who ends up looking crazy, but
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: I think, like, a Vassar-educated attorney who also didn't like
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: getting on planes, had a real idea of how she
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: was going to make herself be interesting on that show. Aviva,
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: you mean?
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: Okay. And it made her look like a monster.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Was Aviva an attorney?
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: Yes. I mean, she's a housewife, but she has a
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: law degree.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, she brought- I interviewed her and she had
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: told the story. Now it's like a, you know, yeah,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: she planned on doing the leg and everything.
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: And- But one of the things that Ramona told me
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: is that the real plan, according to Harry Dubin, who
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: was married to Aviva the day to Ramona.
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: I mean, the greatest character in Housewives history.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: What she really wanted was to throw the leg, not
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: have someone retrieve it. And then Harry or her husband,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: I can't remember, would have to carry her out.
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: I mean, the thing is, is like, that's like one
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: person who thinks she's smart coming up with a plan.
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: And it's not entertaining. And I just wonder.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is an iconic scene, but I think... Joe,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: do you think when... Do you think the producers... Because
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: I think it's such a hard thing to play. It's like, okay,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I gave you all this. I yelled at this person.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: I got in this horrible fight. But then the audience
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: turns on them. And then the producers or Andy, whoever,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: are like, no, you were too bad. We wanted you
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: to be a little bit bad, but you were too bad.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: So now you're gone. And you're like... Well, God, I
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: thought I was doing a good show. It's such a
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: hard thing.
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: I understand. But it's also like performance involves nuance. And like,
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: you know, what you also want are the like come
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: to Jesus moments when somebody like turns around and comes
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: together again. And just like one season of insisting that
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: Carol used a ghost writer over and over and over again.
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: That's not entertaining. Right. You know? Like, Kyle finds fucking arcs. Like,
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: good Miss Rinna finds arcs. And, like, Lisa's capacity to,
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: you know, to say, like, I'm owning my shit and
• 38:35
  Speaker 5: then come around on something or someone. Or, like, you know,
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: Luanne fought like cats and dogs over the titles with
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: Carol Radswell for the first season. And then the next season,
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: you know, they were hanging out in the Hamptons together.
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: And I think you just have to have... And there
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: are ways that... some of the women who don't feel
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: as deliberate or managed, the raw messiness of a Sonia
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: or Ramona is just sort of more likable. And there's
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: something that feels artificial.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Well, because I will say about those, about Sonia, Ramona,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: and Luann, and I told Luann this too, because she
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: and Sonia are doing this show like Crappy Lake where
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: they go to this small town. And I go, you know,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: throughout all the years though, you and Sonia, and Ramona too, never...
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: We're never doing that plotting, manipulative, like, I've got the
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: receipt here.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: No.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I know what your husband did in 1990. 1995 i'm
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: going to destroy your life like now with new jersey
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: you don't watch new jersey no but now new jersey
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: this last season took this this turn where there was
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: a alleged private investigator involved and they were getting all
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: this crap on everybody else and This person's business and
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: this person's ex-wife who's in prison. And it just felt like, ugh.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: And it's all this stuff that, like, it doesn't– it's
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: better that we see the fight happen or the misunderstanding
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: or the argument or whatever.
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Happen organically. And I do feel a little bit with
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: the new housewife. So they go to the one girl's
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: house in the Hamptons. And because they're all so pretty
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: nice and normal, and they've probably been watching these shows
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: since they were like 12 at this point, that the
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: most you can say is that one girl got caviar,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: but they still wanted to get a sandwich before they came.
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're a rude house guest. I'm like, that's just
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: not there.
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: The cheese fight in the first episode just felt so
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: low stakes, and I had to tell myself, well, this
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: is because they're still establishing themselves. And the reason that
• 40:39
  Speaker 5: Bad Houseguest lands correctly with Luanne and Dorinda is that
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: you know it comes from an honest place. Dorinda takes
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: being a good housekeeper so seriously.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Right, hostess, yeah.
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and like Luanne sees herself as better than fish
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: room or basement, you know?
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah.
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Like, you really, I do think, it's funny, it's
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: kind of like watching Survivor with like people in newer
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: seasons having to develop newer strategies towards playing the game
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: and winning the game. And I just feel like I
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: would love to see somebody really smart show up, but
• 41:16
  Speaker 5: it also, it takes more than smarts. It also takes relationships. And,
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: you know, I would say Ms. Bouvier has probably done
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: the best job of showing up.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: But the thing is- Garcelle, yeah. Yes. I mean, yeah,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Garcelle is just like a really likable- person and she
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: laid out all her scandal.
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: So there isn't really anything like for her to do,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: but she's so pretty and fun to watch and she's
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: really real.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: I mean, really real is, is the thing. And I
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: think that for some of these, especially when they're like
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: a 38 year old with like a decent claim to
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: a career and are kind of pretty, like, they feel
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: like they gotta be doing something and it's not that
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: settled in kind of like, I'm just going to, you know,
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: see where this dinner party takes us and, you know,
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: find a reaction.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: What do you think of Miss Sutton?
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, I.
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: Love that she comes to West Hollywood. Like, I think
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: she's a mess. She is to me a little crazy
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: and overreactive in the way of uh kelly or brandy
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: people who i don't really care for um you know
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: like she's all cute in her like southern ladiness and
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: making chicken salad is all charming and nice but at
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: the end of the day um she's you know calling
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: crystals leather pants stupid you know at the end of
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: the day she she will just like escalate so far.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 42:55
  Speaker 5: And, you know, it's upsetting to me.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I do see that, the famous scene where Crystal's like,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I think you're jealous. They're really good
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: friends now in real life. Now they are. But she goes,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: of what? Your ugly leather pants? And I do kind
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: of like that moment because I think she's like, wait,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: what the hell's going on? And she's frustrated and she's
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: new to the game. And I think right when she
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: walked in, she thought, I'm not into that style of
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: leather pants. And so that was like in the forefront
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: of her brain. And she said that. And I, I
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: like that, that she just was like, crowd.
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: Work is working from your, your immediate visceral reaction. Absolutely.
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: But I also think the thing of like, if you
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: come into a series of real housewives, the person you
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: have your first fight with should be your best friend
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: by your second season. And if you're not doing it
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: that way, you're doing it wrong. Like if you're not
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: doing it that way, you're possibly participating in somebody else's
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: group dynamics, which means they are owning and playing you.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: They all look really good here though. All right, let's
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: go to an older season. What are you thinking? What was,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: what did you love most about Kim Richards?
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: I mean, I loved that there was a dose of
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: real chaos. She is like, Very similar to the thing
• 44:13
  Speaker 5: that Ramona has on New York of just sort of like,
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: you know, this is a person with demons inside of her.
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: And she's going to have very natural, organic reactions to
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: things that are going to be huge. And unfortunately, in
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: Kim's case, it's all just fucking liquor and drugs. And,
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: you know, that's really hard. I also think.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Were you watching it when she was dating the guy...
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: That Kyle was just disgusted by. He was so unattractive
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: that she met at her mailbox.
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: In Westlake.
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: Yes. Well, and that kind of like desperate.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Wait, what was it? Brandy said you look like a.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: She said he looked like some dog that started with
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: an M. But anyway. Yes. That night where she was
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: spiraling and she's like, I'm going to have another baby.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: No.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: And Kyle was like, oh, my God. That's what I
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: really felt for Kyle. Because I was like, Kyle. Now
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: it's going to come out and the famous scene of
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: them in the limo and Kim goes, you stole my
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: goddamn house. And you know that it was like everything
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: that Kyle was going through of anything they have put
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: up with or how many times she's covered for her
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: or whatever during the season or whatever. And she's like,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: now you're saying on camera. that we did something like
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: financially shady or real estate shady when you know it wasn't,
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: whatever the case was. That's when she's like, okay, now
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I'm going to fucking say you're an alcoholic.
• 45:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, the thing is, is you cannot cast
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: for that shit. It is the kind of thing that
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: can only happen from 40 years of sisterhood. And, you know,
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: and like high stakes Hollywood sisterhood. But those sorts of
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: things of like the raw complexity of, We gave you
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: a loan against the house and then you never paid
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: us back. I mean, this is the sort of shit
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: that I've had to explain to you or you've had
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: to explain to me going on in your own life.
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: And yeah, like, you know, there's just so much honesty
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: to Kim Richards that there was no part of her
• 46:14
  Speaker 5: that was hiding that she would desperately love to have
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: a man in her life again. You know, like she
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: was not presentational. She was real Kim. And I think
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: that it gave so much richness to every... Everyone else
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: seemed realer because they were engaging off of the shit
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: that she was doing.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I read that Hilton book.
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: Uh-huh.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: It was so juicy. Came out.
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: That mom seems bonkers.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it was very much... A woman, I mean,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: there was a lot to the book and there was
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: a lot about her character and it is all other
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: people speaking about her. Yeah. So they don't like it.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: But the book got made because at the time Paris
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Hilton was rising and this guy's like, my God, there's
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: this whole back history to all the Hiltons, like way
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: older than the mother and everything. But I was, I'm
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: fascinated by the fact that the mother, I believe, taught
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: the girls that Marry well. And not just well, like,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: you can afford a home. I mean, go for the
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: richest heir in America. Like, she, Kim... I mean, first,
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Kathy gets the first guy, which is the Hilton.
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: That was huge. And, you know, he was already massive
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: generational wealth and, you know... And then Kim... I can't remember.
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: She had some good gets along the way, like her
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: first couple of husbands.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: But it was like, yeah. And then she had one
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: and then she was cheating with another before she left
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: with this one and got another rich one. And then
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: she was like, I only want love. And then that
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: guy was involved in like a Ponzi scheme and then
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: was shot at the Brent's Deli in Northridge. And then
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: she had another one. And then she, I mean, I
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: don't think she ended, I don't think she has a
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: lot of money because none of the marriages lasted and
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: they were all, I'm sure... Prenups and everything. So the
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: only money she really got was when they were kids.
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: But I was mostly glad to see, as I learned
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: more about it, that her children had decent inheritances coming
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: their way. That, like, there was somebody.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: They can take care of her, I guess. Well, I mean.
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: And I wasn't thinking as much about, like, who's going
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: to take care of her. But I do like... There's
• 48:23
  Speaker 5: something so interesting about everyone's parents teaches them a worldview.
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: And I think also... I mean, we just saw the
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: Barbie movie. Like, you know... like as a girl, you
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: get taught a worldview and approach and, you know, in
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: the same way that your parents were like, you're going
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: to get a real estate license. That's how you survive.
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: And there's just something so that like the, the grandma
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: Richards like managed to like understand LA enough to realize
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: if I bring my daughters here, like they can play
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: this game and they can succeed. And like, they all
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: really did in one, in one way or another, you know?
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I, it was definitely never anything that
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: like came to mind. And even if I kind of
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: would find out someone at USC or something was like,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: like the Davies who was, would have been um like
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: a like she's a little older than i am but
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: there's um she kim married this girl's brother yeah okay
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: so this girl was at sc of the davies and
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: they're like oh it's dana davies it's dana davies you
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: know are you gonna go to her party she's it's
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: her 21st birthday she rented out a nightclub and i'm
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: like i don't know how i can get invited because
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: she's not in my sorority or whatever And then there
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: was a rumor that she married this guy that was
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: like really hot at the school. But then they hired
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: a detective. This is all rumor. And realized that he
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: was like cheating on her. So then she couldn't get
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: married to him and all this stuff. And then she,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: then there was the gummy bear Davies. Do you remember
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: that whole thing? There were like these, there's like Brendan
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: or Brandon. There's somebody else. Somebody just got engaged and
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: now he's like 43. But there were these, those, the
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: nephews or whatever of this. were all the Paris Hilton ages.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: So they were all like so intertwined and it's just,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: and there's so many generations of like, you know, LA wealth,
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: which isn't that many generations of it, but this is it.
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: It's also so interesting the way that these things sort
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: of like simmer under the surface and these people are around.
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: Like when you go back, there's this one Instagram account
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: that I follow that you would love that is like
• 50:31
  Speaker 5: premieres and stuff from like 20, 30 years ago. And
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: you realize all of these people like, are there and
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: on the scene and dating these people and, like, in
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: that world. Like, people who didn't become famous until they
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: were in their 40s but who were regularly, you know,
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: the fact that Kyle was dating, you know, C. Thomas
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: Howell or whoever she was, like, in a long-term relationship with.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Before she got with the Iranian prince or whatever. Yes.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: It's a dad affair, yeah.
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: Yes, but just, and there are these sort of, like,
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: moneyed L.A. people who are sort of, like, swirling around
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: that kind of thing. Like, Edie's so interesting, but also, like,
• 51:12
  Speaker 5: so strange and alien. The fact that, you know, Bethany
• 51:15
  Speaker 5: was Kathy's babysitter, you know? Like, it's all just so intertwined.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: And it's like, I mean, I joke about it too,
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: but it's like such a different mom. I mean, I've said, like,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: my mom was just all about, like, you get an education,
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: you make your own money. Yes.
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: Stable man from a Catholic background.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: But it was like, well, you'd want to get married wherever,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: but she was never really pushing any kind of thing
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: because she didn't want me to give up my dreams
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: of whatever that was to a man. But it's interesting, too,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: that I also respect a mom that's savvy enough to
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: Like research the richest person in the town and put
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: her daughter in front of that boy and know that proximity,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: you might just fall in love. Or in these cases,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: you might get pregnant and then have to get married,
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: which is even better because that's a double whammy.
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: Yes. I mean, there are some people who I've had
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: to deal with in marriage. who I'm like, I wish
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: I knew them less so I could just admire them. Like,
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: I wish.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Because you don't, you know them too well and now
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: you don't like every, you don't like their morality or.
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: Or just sort of like, they've just like been mean
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: to people that I know. One time I tweeted this
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: and then Mindy Kaling immediately tweeted at me, or immediately
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: texted me and she was like, you're not talking about me. No,
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: I fucking love you. And then I told her who
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: I was talking about and she was like, no, no, no,
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: she's the worst.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: But... Could you tell me what the tweet was about?
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: It was literally me saying, like, I wish I didn't
• 52:55
  Speaker 5: know entertainment person's name redacted so well so I could
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: just admire her Machiavellian feats from afar or something like that.
• 53:05
  Speaker 5: I probably didn't even phrase it that well. But, you know,
• 53:09
  Speaker 5: it was like somebody who, like, secured the fucking bag.
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: And I do admire that, but then when you think
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: about it too hard, you're like, why didn't you raise
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: your child to be a person? And it's one of
• 53:23
  Speaker 5: the reasons that I always enjoyed your books and you
• 53:26
  Speaker 5: talking about the world because you were here in LA,
• 53:30
  Speaker 5: but also just from a good, like a family that
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: was trying to take care of itself. And you had
• 53:37
  Speaker 5: that balance between a little bit of crazy and a
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: lot of stability.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, I will say like, it is, it is
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: so amazing to me and seeing someone who Mary's so rich,
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: you know, and sometimes it's real love, but sometimes it's like,
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: so are you really just gonna fake it? Like for
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: the next 20 years, you're just, you're like acting like
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: you love this person because you want to go shopping
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: and you have all this stuff.
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: Like, but also the thing is like, that seems like, like,
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: With Tinsley... It's.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: A long acting job.
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: But with Tinsley, it's like, that is what she wants, is, like, stability. Yeah. And,
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: you know, like, the life. And I respect it, but
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: don't entirely understand it.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen, I know it's... If you don't come
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: from money, it's so hard to, like, think that, oh,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: my God, in this world, could I even attain anything
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: or own a home or whatever? But, God, I mean...
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: even the richest people, it gets boring. Yeah. It gets,
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: you get over it and it gets boring. And if
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: you're not fulfilled, like creatively with your work, like, let
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: me just tell you something. You're going to get, I mean, even, even, um,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Erica Jane, when I interviewed Erica Jane, she thought she
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: hit the jackpot, married Tom Girardi, 25 years older than her,
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: 30 years older, whatever it is. And she, She literally
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: said at a certain point, there's no other place I
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: could go to. Yeah. No other bag or jewelry that
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: I could buy. And she was totally bored. And then
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: that day some postcard came for some guy's wife who
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: was doing a cabaret and the guy putting it together,
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: she knew from Atlanta or something.
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: And she was like, what are you doing? And he's like,
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: if you want to do something like this, we could
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: put it together. You have the money to do it.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: And then she started doing it.
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: That's really wonderful because I think so many people try
• 55:29
  Speaker 5: to make entertainment for themselves and, by stirring up drama. Like,
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: bored people make drama. And I think you're so much
• 55:36
  Speaker 5: less likely to be bored if you have something that
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: you love. Like, if you have a career that you're
• 55:43
  Speaker 5: interested in, if you have a passion, if you have
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: something in your life that gives you meaning, you don't
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: have to just talk shit about other people.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean, it's just... But, you know, being
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: the rich wife and all that stuff, like, who's really
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: your friend? Do you really... I don't know. It's just
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: kind of.
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: I read the book that Sex and the City was
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: based on.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah?
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: And just the way that Candace Bushnell talked about there
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: are only so many guys in New York. It was
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: just like... There's just a way that your view can
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: become so narrowed. And it is kind of cute when
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: they talk about Sonia Arjorinda back when they were girls
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: on the town and realizing there were a limited number
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: of women who were running in these social circles. Or
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: when you would talk about I remember you talking about
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: the OJ stuff and you talking about, like, Faye Resnick and,
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: you know, just sort of being, like, the girls of Brentwood. But, like,
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: so much of that requires just, like, narrowing your view. Like,
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: coming to a point, like, you know, when the housewives
• 56:44
  Speaker 5: have to go south of Canal Street and they all
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: whine about it. And it's like, maybe you could remember
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: that you live in an interesting city and can deal
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: with people other than fucking Harry Dubin. You know?
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Wait, so are you watching, since we're just talking about...
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: You just talked about Sex and the City. Are you
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: watching in Just Like That?
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: Of course, of course.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Let's get your take on in Just Like That.
• 57:10
  Speaker 5: Oh, isn't it sad? On behalf of everyone, I'm.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go to the picture real quick.
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Because I just... Why not?
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
• 57:20
  Speaker 5: I'm so sad for those characters that I love because, like...
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: Michael Patrick King doesn't appear to be trying.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: I mean, he has so much money from Sex and
• 57:30
  Speaker 5: the City and Two Broke Girls that, like, why would
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: he try? But also, why are you doing this to us? Like,
• 57:35
  Speaker 5: the fact that Miranda has spent how many episodes in
• 57:38
  Speaker 5: the background of episodes, like, fumbling dildos or whatever. Like,
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: this woman who was a capable, like, smart attorney has
• 57:49
  Speaker 5: turned into a joke. And then the way that, like,
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: The episodes used to be so elegant.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Wait, I have a question about that.
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: Miranda being the actress, Cynthia Nixon, is an out lesbian,
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: been with her wife or whatever for like so long.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: Why do you think she is playing it like, even
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: if she was a new lesbian, okay? Couldn't she act
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: like she was a little like more, like not so goofy?
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: Like couldn't she act like she was a little more like,
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Trying to, okay, I'm going to try to be more hip.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like, ugh. I guess sometimes when they're having a
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: sex scene, she's acting like she's hot for her. But
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: you're right. The comedy of it is just so lazy.
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: The writers aren't giving her anything. They go so far
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: out of their way to excuse Che Diaz's worst behavior. Like,
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: you know, when the three-way started and it was so
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: clearly something that Miranda wouldn't be into. And they were like, oh, no,
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: but Che behaved perfectly the whole way. And like, I get.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: What about that, though? Let's talk about that. And then
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: she was like, you guys go ahead. You know, it's
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: like almost like, do you want to go, you know,
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: go on? Do you want to go on this roller
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: coaster ride? And you're like, I'm a little scared, but
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: you guys go on it. I'll just wait up by
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: the exit. That's what it was like. It was literally,
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you, this is your girlfriend. This is her ex-husband.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: And you're just going to allow them to have sex
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: and not be like, wait a minute.
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: No part of that would she have ever done for Steve.
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: And maybe it's because she loves Che more, but I
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: think it's because they're trying to like, creates this sort of, like,
• 59:34
  Speaker 5: you know, sort of, like, flawless non-binary character so that
• 59:39
  Speaker 5: they're not making a non-binary character seem bad, but it's
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: also creating a character who isn't a character. And the
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: way that, like, you used to have four plot lines
• 59:51
  Speaker 5: that all thematically threaded together in some way, whether it
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: was just some fun... pun or turn of phrase or something.
• 59:59
  Speaker 5: And now having six plot lines, they don't give respect
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: to any of them. There is like, it truly is like, um, uh,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: Sarita Chaudhry. What's her name?
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: The realtor. I just call her the realtor.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 5: The realtor. She had a plot line that was like,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 5: she lost her purse and then she found it. And like,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 5: what are we supposed to get from that? It's, you know,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 5: it's like one of these, the law professor.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: And also that exact storyline happened to Samantha.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 5: Like, well, they're so clearly trying to position her as
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 5: the Samantha.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: But, like, Miranda's law professor, like, Miranda went to L.A. for, like,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 5: four episodes, and this character was, like, out on a limb,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: having no relationship to these other people. And it's like,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: at least Real Housewives does the job of trying to
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: build an idea of these people are friends.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: And, you know, I don't know. I do kind of
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: feel like Charlotte and the lady who makes documentaries sort
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 5: of aren't getting it as bad. But maybe that's because
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 5: Charlotte was a goofier character to begin with.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: But, like, I want Carrie Bradshaw to be smart. You know?
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: I want Miranda to be smart.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 5: And they've sold them short and it's kind of unfair
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: to women in their 50s, you know?
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I just have to say like the
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: last episode, I was getting ready to talk about it
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: and I was like literally couldn't remember anything that happened.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: And I was like, wait a minute. wait, what happened?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, that's right. Charlotte's daughter wanted
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: to have sex. Yeah. And she had to go in
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: the cyclone to get the condoms. I'm like, I literally
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: couldn't remember anything else from the episode. So I'm like,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: I'm a little bit worried, but Aiden's coming back, so.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: Like, I never liked Aiden. I controversially, Burger is my
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: favorite of Carrie's boyfriends.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: I just saw when we were at that Barbie movie,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: the preview for my Big Fat Greek Wedding 3. Oh,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 5: How do you, as a- I mean, I.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Have to say, Not one chuckle. Not just for me,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: from the entire audience. It just did not look funny
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: at all.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: As a former Groundling Sunday company, you must be dazzled
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: that somebody managed to turn her Groundling one-woman show into
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 5: three separate movies.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: I believe it was Acme.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 5: Oh, really?
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: And, you know, the story, yeah, she did her one-woman
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: show and someone saw it and was Greek and It
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: was Rita Wilson. I gotta get Rita Wilson to come
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: see it. Then Rita Wilson saw it.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: And it all went from there. And no, I so
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: admire her. And she is, every time I've seen her
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: at anything, she could not be nicer. And I'm kind
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: of sad she got divorced, though.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: Oh, I didn't know that. Because she's one of those couples,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: her and also Melissa McCarthy are these groundlings couples that
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 5: I believe in.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: Yes. Well, yeah. I'm pretty, I'm almost positive that she
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: married So the girl in my, what is her name?
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: My big Greek, what's her name?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 5: Oh, her name is Mia Vardalos.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah, her husband, they had a child. Then she,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: after that, you know, it was so hit. She got
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: the sitcom, of course, that didn't make it. She was
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: always on talk shows and they're like, you have, you
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: got $ 2 million and you still live in your little
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: like studio city home? And she's like, yes. And then
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: he worked on other shows and they adopted a daughter
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: and then, no, they got They got divorced.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: He was on the Drew Carey show. But, like, yeah,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 5: I mean, it is just that rough thing of, like,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 5: did you watch Connie and Carla?
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: No, what is that?
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: It was one of her two terrible follow-ups to My
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 5: Big Fat Great Wedding.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 5: It was her and Toni Collette, and it was the
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: improviser's inclination to have two characters who are exactly the same,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: which I don't understand why you guys.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: Was this a movie or a TV show?
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 5: It was a movie about two women who have to
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 5: run from the mob to West Hollywood and pretend to
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: be drag queens. And it was terrible.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: So, oh my God, like a reverse white chick.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 5: Yes. And like, it was bad. And I just feel
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: like why she kept getting chances is a little crazy
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 5: to me. And why she didn't sort of like, don't
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 5: you feel like there was a point in time when
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: she could have gone and been supporting on a sitcom
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: and like gotten in there?
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, but I also just think that's what's hard. No,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: I just think it's a hard thing. I just think
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: when they are casting for those supporting roles, they always
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: go for, who is Carrie Fisher's sister? They always just
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: go for Jolie Fisher.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: Yes, or Heather Dubrow.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: They just always go for someone that they know that
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: they can deliver it, that's not going to overshadow, that
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: knows how to learn her lines quickly, and it's a
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: safe bet. And they always would just go for the
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: safe bet, it seemed like. It was so rare that
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: they'd give the part to a new person.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: And I'd be like, God, this person got another pilot,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: and they just always got the pilots over. I remember
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: Leah Remini, when I read her book about escaping Scientology,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: it was like this boo-hoo book. I remember she was like,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: and then I got my 30th pilot. I'm like, you
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: shot 30 pilots?
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: And it was like, boo-hoo, but none of them have
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: been a big hit until King of Queens. I'm like,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: but you were obviously making a solid living and all
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: these people were saying yes to you and all of
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: us were getting no's, no's, and no's.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: But wait, I wanted to go back because you said white,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: I guess in a reverse of white chicks. Yes. And
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I've said this in a while,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: but I did an interview recently and somehow the guy
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: brought up white chicks and And I go, oh, yeah,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: I love that White Chicks. And for those that you
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: don't know, that don't know, I was working on another movie.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: And it was basically a parody of, like, the movie
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: Signs and stuff. It was going to be, like, an
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: alien parody. And then they found out that, like... Was
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: that for Caden? Yeah. And then they found out that
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: the people that screwed them over on Scary Movie 2,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: which was the Weinsteins, I guess, they were going to
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: make a Scary Movie 3, and they were parodying alien movies. Oh, okay.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: And that's after we wrote the whole thing.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 5: So I didn't know that the Weinsteins.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: I think it was Weinsteins. I'm not sure.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 5: Oh, wow.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 5: But that sucks real hard.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: So then they were like, oh, my God. They're writing
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: because they wrote one and two. Then they parted ways.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: And then they're like, let's do another parody. Let's do
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: a parody of alien movies. And one of my friends
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: who worked on Kenan brought me in because Kenan was like,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: there's always a single mom character.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Like in these alien movies. So we want to have
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: a single mom character. So Heather would be good to
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: write for that character. So when you try to come
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: up with like the stuff. So we finished that. And
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: we're like, we find out we're going to like shelve it.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: And I'm like in this office waiting for Kenan. And
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: I see that there's like a dead. I didn't subscribe
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: to like a whole variety or anything. I see there's
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: a variety article that they had sold a show, a
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: movie called White Chicks.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: Based on two FBI agents that pretend to be white
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: chicks like Paris and Nikki Hilton.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: And I go, when is you working on this movie? Because,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: oh my God, don't you need at least one white
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: chick consultant?
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: So then, so then anyway, we did, so we did
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: the movie. That's yeah. So that every, anyone that knows
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: I got to be in the movie too. And we
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: wrote the movie and that was all fun. So it's
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: a hit. So people always ask, is it going to come?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: Is it going to come back?
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Well, in the last six or seven years, it was like, well, God,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know that it could come back with everything
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: with the trans Americans and trans people and trans everything. And,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: but I always thought the storyline had to be once,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: you know, we were talking about in the last 10 years,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: anytime I could, like someone would ask me, I'd say, no,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: it has to be that they're the FBI agents. Okay.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: But there is a crime or a murder or something
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: happening within the real housewives.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 5: Oh, that would be so much fun.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: So then you have all these, you have all these
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: different housewives and like, it's gotta be white ones, right?
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: It's gotta be something like New York or Beverly Hills,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: but then like NeNe makes an appearance and like, they're like,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: we went to the wrong franchise.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 5: Why don't you take that out with them?
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: They want to get in the, I mean, I guess,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm thinking though? Like, I wonder if
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: they would even have to wear the masks and makeup anymore.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: Could we just do a CGI? Because I know they
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: hated getting ready in the makeup. That was so long.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: But that is what I think could be such a
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: funny idea.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 5: Not if Fran Drescher has her way, Heather. If Fran
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 5: Drescher has her way, we won't be able to do
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 5: AI character likenesses.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: But with Andy Cohen and everything, and I actually think,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: You know, with trans women and drag queens and stuff
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: that are so popular today, I think that could be
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: incorporated in the movie. absolutely such a clever funny way
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: that isn't offended because the movie didn't offend anyone right
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: and to the end you know.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: And i think as as people get more inclusion and
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 5: as we move further away from like these traditions are
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 5: really terrible like jokes and mockeries of people everybody is
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 5: able to calm down enough yes be able to sort
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 5: of like enjoy the joke again because like white chicks
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 5: is not in any way commenting on on the trans
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 5: experience or parody in any way.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: Not at all. And people would be like, well, is
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: it okay that they wore white face? I was like, uh, yeah.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: Do you think one white chick had a problem with that? They,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: there was like a bulimic joke in there. I'm like, no,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: we fucking didn't, you know, like hence why we're writing it.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: And then there was a lot of jokes that they
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: were coming up with it. You know, of course was
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: fine too. You know, that, Terry Cruz's character only liked
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: white chicks. You know, like that type of thing was
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: just so like funny. I remember, you know, I just
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: remember this one of the nephews was like working on
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: it and he goes, and they're pitching jokes. And one
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: of the nephews being one of the Wayne's nephews, which
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: I can't remember which one, but it was funny. And
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: he was like, well, you know that expression, you know,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: once you go, once you go black, you never go
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: back or whatever. He's like, I just thought it'd be
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: funny if someone says, well, you know what they say?
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: Once you go black, you end up in a wheelchair.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: And then there you go. And then a girl in
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: a wheelchair comes by and is like, hey, Terry. And
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: then that made it right into the movie. That's very funny.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: There's such funny things that if we overthought it and
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: picked it apart, it would never be there.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 5: Well, I really hope that Barbie returns us to a
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 5: place of remembering the place of fun and play in comedy.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean? It engages... with so many
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 5: questions about gender and feminism, but, like, doesn't purport to
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 5: know too many answers.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 5: And, you know, just has fun and, like, talks about
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 5: the ways that we are all, you know, that we
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 5: all exist in this system.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Do you.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: I talked about this with Brandon and Julie. Do you
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: think they'll be a Barbie, too?
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 5: Like, truly, I hadn't even thought about the ramifications of it,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 5: but Mattel already announced what their slate, that basically... Mattel
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 5: and Warner Brothers are going to try to roll out
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 5: the way that Marvel and Disney have. And I'm sure
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 5: they're going to try to do a Barbie 2. But
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 5: the thing is, it won't be fucking Greta Gerwig. Because
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 5: Greta Gerwig and Noah Baumbach are going to go off
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 5: and make other good, interesting movies.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: I know. It's not going to be the same.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's kind of going to.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: It can't be the same if it's Bratz. Bratz can't
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: be it because those were just sluts trying to get
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: into the bar. That now have the face of everybody.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: But like, you know, like it's different. Like it's it
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: was such is such smart writing. I just I don't
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: know how you can really do it again. But I
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: think that they will.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 5: Of course they will because they will.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: It won't do as well, but it'll still be worth it.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 5: Yes. And the thing is, it's like I'm so pleased
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 5: that we had a weekend at the box office where
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 5: things were making money and everybody remembered. that it's fun
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 5: to go to the movies.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 5: But I just worry that they won't take that lesson
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 5: back to these IPs and they'll just churn things out
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 5: the way that, like, truly, do I need another Ant-Man
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 5: and Wasp movie? You know, do I.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, I saw that preview.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 5: Like, it's just, there's so many goddamn superheroes out there.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: Sometimes when I see these movies, are they creating them
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: now or are they still all existed before?
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 5: They're all existing IP.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: They all exist... And then, but then they just change it.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: So they make it fun. Like this one now is,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: you know, Mexican. Was he always Mexican?
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 5: Well, the thing is, is even those comic books, they've
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 5: had so many iterations that so many of the times,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 5: like Ms. Marvel, Ms. Marvel was a couple of things.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 5: And along the way, one of the iterations was like
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 5: a Pakistani Muslim girl. And so the Disney series is
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 5: the Pakistani Muslim girl version, but she was a white
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 5: girl At other times, Captain Marvel was a dude for
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 5: extended periods of time, but then he was... Captain Marvel
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 5: was a woman, and that was the one that they
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 5: used for the Brie Larson movies. It's basically like... It's
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 5: kind of like soap operas.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: I never go to these movies, by the way.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 5: But you know how in soap operas, different people play
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 5: the same characters?
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 5: That's kind of how comic books work, even though there
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 5: aren't actors. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 5: I'm so tired of those. Well.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: let's see if there's any last thing to talk about
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: with you. What did you think of Alex McCord?
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 5: Let's just end on that. I, I miss the bonkersness of,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 5: they were, they were so terrible. They were so ill
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 5: suited to it. The fact that they like now live
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 5: in obscurity in Australia and Simon is a lawyer is crazy.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 5: Like there was something really fun about seeing these people
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 5: who like.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: She's going to come back on a girls trip. I
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: just remembered.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm excited for that. And I like them
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: getting to have another dose of fame and excitement, especially
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 5: because they built this franchise. Like two of the women here,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 5: Kristen Taichman did not build that franchise. She brings nothing
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: to the table.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: She comes back on Ultimate Girls Trip too.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 5: Yes. I can't imagine she does anything useful.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: She's pretty nice though. She's pretty cool. I think. I
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: heard she does. I heard it does.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 5: It's nice what we're looking for.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I heard it does come about.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 5: And the thing is, it's like Alex never had it
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 5: in her to be mean, which kind of made me,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 5: you know, which meant that the other girls ate her up.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 5: But like, you know, like I love that there are
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 5: those bonkers energies. And I wish that they were, that
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 5: some of these women were a little bit better at like,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 5: I don't know, like launch a line of something. Like
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 5: can't you? I want her to get a little rich
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 5: off of this in some way.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 5: And I feel like she just doesn't have the skill
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 5: set for it.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: I think they also make it really hard to launch something, too.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 5: Uh-huh.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: I really think they do now, too. I really think
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: these new girls, if they already had so many subs,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: they're just going to be a little more famous. And
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: then you've got to make your money off of being famous.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: And so no, like, I think it's harder than people think.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: Especially now because it's like people are like, what are
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: you going to do? You're going to have a... you know,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: a lotion line. You're going to have a blah, blah, blah, blah. Like,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: and is everybody really running to buy someone's like.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 5: So many of them are so pathetic, but also like
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 5: they've given, like they've given so much time to all
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 5: of Sonia's ventures and they're also fake. And I wonder
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 5: if that's why they give them time is because like
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 5: Sonia's not making money off of the toaster oven.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: I think she just isn't good about the follow through.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: I think someone else that was given that, that had
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: the toaster oven idea and wanted to really go for it.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: Could have executed and made some money because if you
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: think about it, like people, if it was a really
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: good toaster oven, you got with a really good company
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: and she was just a spokesperson of like, let me
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: tell you, let me show you everything. You can make
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: it a toaster oven and you never have to get
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: a regular oven. I think like she could have sold
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 5: It's also that thing of like good management. Some like
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 5: if Sonia had a better, if a better manager, but
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 5: also in those earlier seasons, they, Well, no, by the
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 5: time she showed up, they had to have been making
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 5: decent money.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: No, I just don't think she's a businesswoman. She always
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: gets somebody to do a dress liner with or something,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: and then it doesn't last, and then she just moves
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: on to something else.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 5: Alex and Simon were such a wonderful role on the show,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 5: but it's not, you wish it were the kind of
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 5: skill set that she could take and apply to an
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 5: Australian series. The way that, like, Taylor showing up in
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 5: Orange County, I'm very excited for, but, like, she and
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 5: Simon were like comedy side characters who created trouble for
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 5: other characters.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: Right. And they just thought they were like above it all,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: but he was, yeah. Are you watching OC?
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 5: I'm not watching OC.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: You're not.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: You're not missing that much. I'll never stop. I'm going
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: to watch it tonight, but it's not. Yeah. It's there. Yeah.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 5: Don't you like, I, one gains such power. From building
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 5: their life around the things that they love. And I
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 5: really love that you have been able to build Juicy
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 5: Scoop and the Juicy Scoopers so much from the things
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 5: that meant a lot to you.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: I think there's been enough fun that these women have
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: given us that it's like even when something's kind of
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: boring or someone really misbehaves or whatever, I'm like, who cares?
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: They're still entertainers.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 5: Yes, of course.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: Like, I'm always going to be nice to them. I'm
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: never going to dislike them.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 5: But we definitely know people in comedy whose comedy, who
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 5: work very hard and are very successful, but their comedy
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 5: is based on something of a false persona.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 5: And I think it is never as fun as hearing, like,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 5: what pisses you off or what pisses Natasha Leggero off.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 5: These things are coming from people's souls.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 5: Guy....
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: Tell everybody where they can get more of Guy Branum
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: in their life.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 5: I am at Guy Branum on all social media. And
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 5: please watch Platonic on Apple +.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 5: Yes. I am in seven of ten episodes. Wait.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: I have not started watching that. And people tell me
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: to watch it. How could I not watch it? Why
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: didn't you remind me more?
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: Platonic, Apple +.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: That's a good one.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: You... Oh, wait. Wait a minute.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 5: You look like that because it is fundamentally about... Can we.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: Talk about something... Sorry, finish your thought.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 5: It's fundamentally about a woman in her 40s getting her
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 5: youngest kid to school age and then asking, what the
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 5: fuck am I doing with my life?
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 5: But it's told in a weird, fun way. I look
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 5: forward to hearing what you think.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, Guy, I love you.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 5: I love you very much.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: Follow Guy, and hopefully this strike will be done soon.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: In the meantime, you can watch Platonic. You can follow him.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: Do you do Threads, too?
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 5: Oh, I need to go to Threads and Blue Sky.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 5: I haven't done it yet.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: What's Blue Sky? I think it's from... Oh, God, no more.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: I'm so tired.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 5: I know, I know.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: So tired. Okay. Love you. Bye. So, you guys, I
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: hope to see you soon at my East Coast shows
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: with Chris Frangiola. And, Ashley, let me also remind you,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: for my California peeps, we are doing a live Juicy
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: Scoop in Sacramento September 29th and San Francisco September 30th
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: with Chris. All these are with Chris Frangiola. Everything is
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: at heathermcdolland.net, including get that ticket and get your plans
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: together for the greatest Las Vegas weekend ever, November 4th, Saturday.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: I'll be at the Venetian with a live juicy scoop.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: Thank you. The car is beautiful. Where did you end
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: up going for it?
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dada's connections with.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: They have more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: You have to put me in touch.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: What's it called?
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: It's Dune ADL.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: Where?
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: Dune ADL.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 4: There's an accent on the E.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: Do you mean.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: Lift, please. You're going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage. No. Dundale Cars.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.