Latest / Deep Trope Fantasy & Romance Podcast / The Incendiary Deep Dive (Ch. 22–32): Gavin Smyth’s Mom, Simeon’s Notes & the Worst Party Ever

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The Incendiary Deep Dive (Ch. 22–32): Gavin Smyth’s Mom, Simeon’s Notes & the Worst Party Ever · Deep Trope Fantasy & Romance Podcast

• Rachel: Welcome to Deep Trope, where we go deep into fantasy and romance books, one trope at a time. I'm Rachel, romantasy theorist. Kate: And I'm Kate, lover of all things dark and spicy. Rachel: And today is episode three of our six episode deep dive of The Incendiary by LJ Claren. Kate: This episode will cover chapters twenty two to thirty two of the book from the perspective of two people who have read the full book. So that means spoilers. If you don't know what the earth shattering last three words of the book are, pause the podcast and come back once you've finished reading. Rachel: We're still a new podcast, so we truly appreciate every like, subscribe, and share. Our goal is to make sure every romance and fantasy reader has a book bestie to gush over their favorite theories and their favorite spicy scenes. And we absolutely love chatting with you. So be sure to connect with us on social media. You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook at Deep Trope Podcast. Kate: And a quick note on the formatting. At some point in this series, we may rearrange the chapter orders a bit to complete the entire Gavin POV flashback before moving on. And before we begin, be sure to check the content warnings for the book, because all trigger warnings from the book apply to this podcast. We are two unfiltered, opinionated millennials, so maybe grab your headphones if you're around little ones or anyone easily offended. Rachel: Alright, let's dive into it. So we're starting off with an Ary POV chapter, chapter 22. And Elias has paired Ary with Finch during training. And before they start fighting, Finch shares a look with Alec Girard and his cronies. So clearly they are all in cahoots. So just vom. And Finch pretty quickly manages to get Ary into a chokehold and tells her to submit or die. Again, ugh. Elias looks on, realizing that maybe he fucked up. And Ary, though disgusted by it, refuses to submit and instead bites his arm so hard that her face is literally covered in blood after. And of course, this little crybaby complains that weapons aren't allowed. But both Mavic and Valda step in. Technically, Ary didn't use any weapons. This is so gross, so gross, but also so badass and hilarious. Like again, Gavin would definitely be giving her a good girl for this. Kate: Absolutely. Like this is the exact kind of feral energy that he's been trying to bring out in her this whole time. Rachel: Yes. Afterward, Ary cleans herself up in the bathroom and Elias stops her on the way out, questioning why she wouldn't just yield. And Ary says, quote, I'll die before I yield to a man like that. Yes, queen. I am so proud of you, just like Gavin is, but also so repulsed by Eli's natural instinct to just like choose the easy way out. Like, why don't you just give up? Kate: Yeah, this was another moment from Eli that I definitely put in my cons column for him. Cause, you know, I've been like Rachel: Yeah. Kate: this whole book, I was basically going back and forth in my head. I'm like, do I like Eli? Do I not like Eli? But the cons column is pretty is pretty long, honestly. And this was definitely one of those ones that I was just like, why would you encourage her to not fight back? Rachel: I mean, to be fair, it's literally sparring. Like it's a training session. I think most people get to a point at some point in sparring where they just give up. Like they're they fought as far as they can fight. Like she's literally in a chokehold. She lost. But Ary is not like normal people. Kate: Well and also she didn't lose, right? She did still have some more moves to to make. So Rachel: Yeah, true. So Elias and Ary proceed with their typical tension-filled flirty banter, where Elias admits that Ary is in his dreams. And then to her surprise, he kisses her. And while his kiss is delicious and he tastes and smells so good, Ary isn't into it. So she pushes him back and then punches him in the face. So I think he got the message. Kate: Yeah, she does. Rachel: although maybe not, because he is. Barely phased, and he kind of laughs at her and then calls them even. And then he questions her about her nightmares because apparently her roommates reported that she's been screaming, don't close me in. This is just so heartbreaking for Ary. She only ever kissed one man, Gavin. And she feels proud of that. Like she feels that she's being loyal to her true love. And then Elias stole that from her. So That was a tough scene to read from that perspective, even though it was very funny that she just immediately punched him. Kate: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But no consent there. He didn't ask her before Rachel: Yeah. Kate: he kissed her. Rachel: I mean, I think it would kill the vibe if you get consent for every kiss, but Kate: But just think about the optics here. Like he's her commander. They Rachel: Yeah. Kate: haven't known each other very long. Like they don't have any romantic history. It's not like they've like gone out on a date or like really had any I don't know. It just seems like like in this scenario, there's enough that's saying like you guys probably shouldn't be together that Rachel: Yeah. Kate: just a l a little communication before going into like a physical manifestation of your feelings would be probably a good idea. Rachel: Well, I also think that it's just a reminder that women are throwing themselves at Elias. Like he's not used to having to read the room because everybody is usually into him. Kate: That's so true. He's never had to ask before because he's always been the one that's been like pursued. Rachel: Yeah. I also was wondering if because of the line about the nightmares, if Eli is starting to suspect that. Ary, or Fera, as he believes her to be, is his actually not dead queen. Kate: I actually suspected this too at like a few different points where like something kind of weird was going on with Fera that would not was not like typical of a cadet or somebody who just claims to be like a common person like she does. And it was like his reaction when she officially revealed herself, though, that he seemed so shocked that I kind of doubted my thoughts about whether he suspected her or not. that reaction is just what made me doubt myself. But there were a few points that like you I was like, does he suspect? Does he know? But then Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: he was so shocked and like freaked out when she revealed herself that I was like, I guess he didn't, I don't know. Rachel: Yeah. I know. It it's it's hard to tell. It's hard to tell. But like he he kind of prides himself in being this great strategist and being able to read people, which is why I think that he has his spidey senses up where he's like, something's not quite right here. Kate: Mm. Mm-hmm. Rachel: The following chapter starts with an epigraph, which is a letter from Gavin to Ary encouraging her to trust her gut, not let anyone keep secrets from her, and most importantly, not to trust her creepy uncle. But unfortunately, Ary has no choice. She needs to seek out some answers from Simeon. Kate: That's true, but hopefully she'll have kind of a healthy amount of skepticism when she engages with him. Rachel: I mean I think that Gavin certainly beat it into her. Kate: Yeah. And just herself, like all her experiences, especially what happened to her at the end of the Silversmith. She's like, I'm never gonna blindly trust anyone ever again. So even Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kate: without his encouragement, I think she was already not going to let herself be so naive. Rachel: Yeah, that's true. Again, Ary is desperate for answers. She hasn't had the opportunity to steal the key from Elias yet. And she thinks her recent dreams are related to her family's source of power. And knowing that everybody's hearing her scream during these nightmares, she's sort of desperate for answers. So she stays behind while everyone else is at dinner and tells Simeon, who can just, you know, hear her at all times, that it's time to chat. Kate: It's still so creepy to think that he's like a smart home device that's just like always listening and waiting Rachel: I know. Kate: to be acknowledged and woken up with a question. Like, ooh. Rachel: I know. Yeah, that's true. Instead of instead of Alexa, it's Simeon. Sorry to anybody listening if I just woke yours up. Kate: Yeah. Simeon, play back the conversation that I just had in confidence with my best friend. Rachel: Ha ha ha. Simeon and Ary exchange little notes that reveal quite a few things. So we've got a list here and we're going to kind of break them down item by item. So first, the magic that Molochai and Simeon discovered 400 years ago is a system of knowledge of spells and curses. And what's interesting here is that Ary asked, quote, what magic is this you're using? She didn't ask, what is the source of our magic? Ary's magic is clearly different from Simeon's, and I wonder if the sources are different. Kate: They definitely seem to be different, because if Simeon utilizes spells and potions to accomplish his magic, which we've seen him do, clearly Ary knows none of those things and is able to wield her power instinctively through the gods, not through whatever means that he is, you know? Rachel: Yes, well it's interesting because we know that those are two different things. Like she has the power of the gods that Simeon does not have. And then he's claiming she has this inherited magic too. So is that the case? Does she actually have inherited magic? Or yeah. Kate: I mean I mean, I think it's definitely possible because it seems like like it's all about knowledge, right? So Rachel: Uh-huh. Kate: it's not I I it doesn't seem like it would be something that would just like instinctively come out of her the way that the power of the gods seemed to. It's like if she doesn't know about it, if she doesn't know the spells, if she doesn't know how to wield it, then I don't know that she would know if she had it. Rachel: I'm just interested in like why she would even need it. Like, what could her magic do or Simeon's magic do that the gods can't do? And so I'm interested, I'm hoping we see her tap into that, you know, like. Kate: Well it's the ward magic, right? The ward magic isn't of the gods because that's Simeon's magic and that's what he's teaching her. Rachel: I know, I just wonder that if s if she mastered her power of the gods, like could she create something like that? I don't know. Kate: Maybe, but I don't know. There the and I don't know that there's like the gods magic seems so specific of like Rainar, Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: you can control water, you know, like it's just like spells and potions seem more like, I wanna do this thing. Let me find a way to concoct something that can allow me to do that. Or you know what I mean? Like Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: it doesn't seem to be so kind of boxed in. I mean, obviously the the power of the gods is like that's a huge amount of power, but it seems like they're very specific, whereas something that's based around knowledge and spells might be more flexible almost. I don't know. Rachel: Right. Well, and this is interesting because it brings us to the second item that we learn, which is that the spells are kept in two grimoires. There's two copies, which Molochai and Simeon wrote after discovering their powers. And they each have one and only their families can read them. So we just wrapped up our coverage of practical magic, which is what I think of when I think of a grimoire. And I had Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: a little chuckle thinking of Simeon writing his recipe for love potion number nine. But what we know about the grimoires from that series is that the spells are what you're describing, like they're essentially like recipes to accomplish a certain desired result. And so if the gods' powers are sort of this elemental force and magic is sort of like a recipe or like an algorithm, if Ary's able to combine all of that. Just imagine what she could do with that. Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Because again, look like thinking about how things work in practical magic, obviously not applicable across the board as far as magic systems go. But you see things like like a more powerful witch is able to accomplish more even with the same spell. Right. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: So maybe it's something like that where I mean, I'm so curious to see what happens when Ary does master the ward magic that Simeon wants to teach her because What is it gonna look like with her power backing it versus his? You know, like he, and assuming that this is accurate, was only able to ward certain cities, was not able to extend the wards to the the smaller towns and stuff. You know, I because his power is weakening, I tend to believe that that is true, Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: that he really was limited in his capacity, but maybe she won't be, you know? What if she could just like put her wards around the entirety of Rachel: Yeah. Kate: you know, the the territory. Who knows? Rachel: Well, and I would just like love if she would set up like booby traps that are tied to the wards so that like when Molochai tries to come, like he gets, you know, shot with a thing of water and then if that doesn't drown him, he then gets blown up in flames. You know what I mean? Like just using all the different powers. Kate: that would be fun. Rachel: and then third, Ary asks if Molochai has Nyxar's power, and Simeon says he won't speak of it here. So first of all, yay, I'm glad you asked the question. That's on all of our minds. But also What do you mean here? Where the fuck are you? Creepy Uncle Simeon. Because when Ary asks why Simeon put her in Warrich rather than keeping her with him, which is the most common sense solution, he says she can't go where he's been. And he cannot tell Ary where he's been. So I think it sure seems like he's under some kind of a blood deal. Kate: Has he been hanging out in the demon's lair? Also, though, Ary notes here that she didn't need Simeon's answer to know that Nyxar's power was good and not corrupted. So she knows that it's not what Molochai has. So even though Simeon avoided the question and was like, I can't talk about it here, Ary seems to still instinctively know that Nyxar and Molochai are like diametrically opposed because Nyxar is good and Molochai is not. Rachel: doesn't mean that Molochai didn't somehow steal Nyxar's powers. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't mean that this evil Kate: But Rachel: guy didn't somehow steal his powers and now he's corrupt corrupting them. Kate: I mean, I guess maybe, but there've been a few points now where they say that Molochai's power, like you said, is corrupted and is not of the gods. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: So, I mean, I guess if he originally had it from the gods and then like changed it into something else, that would be one thing. But it seems like they are pointing at h the source of his magic not being one of the Selvaren Selvaren. Rachel: When Ary asks where the magic came from, Simeon sends empty notes. And this makes me think that Simeon is bound by some kind of magic that prevents him from speaking about his source of magic. He doesn't give her a snarky response, which we know is his go to. He literally just sends a blank sheet of paper. Kate: Yeah, I agree. This definitely felt less like ghosting her and more like its own hint. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: like his blank paper is not an empty response. It's still telling her something. It's telling her that he can't tell her and that maybe she needs to ask different questions. Rachel: Yes. Yes. And like the fact that he has been coming and going, again, we don't know where he's been, but he's been coming and going. We know that. So it's not like he's stuck there. And he's kind of doing these weird cryptic things like sending these blank empty notes. I'm just convinced it's some kind of a blood deal. Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Well and I think we're gonna get a lot more evidence for that later. Rachel: Okay, yes, we'll be we'll keep keeping our eye out for that. Ary asks if others can learn the magic, but Simeon says the magic lives in their veins, so there is no point in teaching others. And Ary has an interesting thought here. Quote, that was wrong. Even if they couldn't wield it themselves, others could help think, research, and understand. Why keep others in the dark when their lives were just as much at stake? Kate: Good fucking point, Ary. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Like again, keeping people in the dark with the guise of protecting them but without giving them any agency for themselves is bullshit. Rachel: Mm. Kate: but also Simeon saying that they have the magic in their veins definitely sounds like a blood oath to me. Rachel: Yes. Yes, it does. You're right. So I have another theory here that we discuss during our coverage of the Silversmith, but I think we're getting a lot more proof that this is potentially the right path. So since magic is knowledge, I think it has to do with the language of the Selvaren that we heard about in the Silversmith. We heard about it on two occasions. First, the Insidions speak the old language, which we believe is the language of the Selvaren. And Ary is told that the Insidions do this as a fuck you to the old gods. and then second, Smyth spoke in the language of the Selvaren when he prayed to bring Ary back after Molochai killed her at the end of the book. Since Gavin has the power of magic in his blood, it worked for him. Even if he doesn't tick typically actively use it. However, for the Insidions, I'm not really sure what's actually driving them to use this language, but Elias' people wouldn't know the actual reason that the Insidions use the old language. They're just assuming that it's a fuck you to the old gods. And since the Insidions don't have the magic in their blood to spark the words to life. When they use the old language, it doesn't work in the same way that it does for Simeon and Molochai's lines. Kate: That's interesting. I mean, the languages definitely hold special power. again, like the moment that Smyth prays in the language of the Selvaren for Ary is the most direct like evidence that we see of that. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: So we are just theorizing here, but I think that it's really important to think about the power that that language holds and why only certain people still speak it or even know it. Rachel: And is it even true that only people with magic in their blood can wield it? Like maybe that's why the Insidions use it. Because I'm wondering, when we saw them use it in the first time, it was on a sign in one of the towns that they had ransacked, right? Is this part of what they're doing to take over the northern part of Nyrida now too and to help like break down the wards? Kate: I don't know. Rachel: We have no proof about that, but you know, something to spiral over. Kate: Since when did we need proof to spiral over something? Rachel: I just think that it's gonna come I think there's gotta be a reason that the Insidions use the language. Even if it is that it doesn't work for them, I don't know. There's gotta be a reason. Kate: Besides just spite. Rachel: I think it's more than just spite because I just don't believe that Elias's people, because I don't remember who it was. It was Caz or Finn or Ezra. Somebody told one of those three told Ary that they use the language as a fuck you to the gods. Elias's people have no fucking clue what is driving the insidions. They have no clue. They just think of them as the bad guys, and they probably are the bad guys, but I don't think that they have. Any idea like about their motivations. Kate: Right. I think Simeon does, but I don't think Elias does. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Next, Ary asks if Smyth can wield magic, and Simeon says no, but avoids answering the follow-up question of why not? Kate: So this was interesting to me because I have been thinking, especially having finished this book, about Gavin's magic. So knowing what we do from the end of the book, I feel like this might confirm that Gavin gained his powers either when he died, if he didn't have them before, or it confirms that maybe his powers were latent and existed in his blood, but just couldn't be wielded yet. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: So, you know, because like like Simeon seems pretty confident that Smyth cannot wield his magic. So he either do didn't have magic before, you know, he came back at the end of this book, or Simeon knows that he can't wield it, right? Like maybe wield is the key word here of He h he has it in his blood, he can't wield. Rachel: Hmm. I wonder if it's just as basic as like Gavin doesn't have Molochai's gri grimoire and Simeon's an asshole. So he's answering the question technically accurately. Kate: Right. Well, 'cause again, like wield might be the thing. He's like, well, no, he can't wield it, but that's like not Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: fully answering that question. Rachel: Ary's powers didn't appear until Tovick because, according to Simeon, she was weak. So Ary asks why he kept her weak, cold, and starving. And Simeon claims he didn't want Ary to suffer alone, and Elowen has been dealt with, and Ary won't need to deal with her for some time. So it sure sounds like fucking Elowen is in her own magical time coffin, especially since Simeon skirted around the question of: is Elowen alright? Kate: Well, good. Fuck her. Rachel: I'm just like imagining a room full of coffins of people that Simeon's like, I don't feel like dealing with them. We'll deal with them in 400 years. Kate: my god. Yeah, like this is 'cause you know, we're getting into the time of year in the corporate world where, we'll circle back to this in the new year. Like at some point he's gonna and be like, god, I I kind of never thought that this would come back to haunt me. Now I have to deal with it. I don't know. Rachel: When the conversation turns to Christabel, Simeon tells Ary to meet him in the caves and he'll tell Ary all about her, which is just truly classic manipulation. Like Kate: Like withholding information until you get what you want. Rachel: I'm not gonna tell you about your dead mom until you Kate: Yep. Rachel: come to my house. Yeah. When Ary asks why they are the only ones with magic, Simeon responds, quote, It is as it was agreed upon. It can only be obtained one of two ways. Stolen through murder or through bloodlines. It's meant to grow stronger with each generation. Again, so It's meant to grow stronger with each generation. Okay, there's a lot to unpack here, and I know that we've kind of theorized about it. Very much convinced that Molochai had killed a god based on this line that, you know, it can be stolen through murder or through bloodlines. But it's meant to grow stronger with each generation, also just has my spidey senses up about Gavin and Ary as well. I also think no wonder Ary is so powerful, and we really need to find out what her missing baby is doing. Kate: Show me the baby. Rachel: Ha ha ha Kate: But also they said that it was as it was agreed upon. So like they sat Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: in a room and were like, yeah, you know, I'm thinking one fun way that we could get power is if we murdered each other. Like that's part of the agreement, is like murder is part Rachel: Right. Kate: of the the plan. Rachel: I mean, I think that they must have signed the same kind of fairy deal as Gavin, where they they were just too dumb to know what they were doing at the time. Kate: I don't know. Because for that for it to be like this is this is a system or this is a an arrangement that we agreed to and there's Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: two rules and one of them is murder is cool and the other one is that your magic gets stronger the more you fuck. Rachel: Well, it's also like you wanna live forever. Like they have some kind of magic that allows them to live forever, except for if somebody comes to murder them to steal their magic, which is like the biggest loophole in the system. Kate: Yeah, it's it's just I mean, this is what two senten two or three sentences worth of explanation Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: about their magic and you know, the agreement that gave it to them. So clearly there's a lot more that we don't know here, but just based on this very high level overview, it seems like Rachel: Yeah. Kate: a like a bad arrangement. It seems like a bad deal. Rachel: Well, I also think it's very interesting how this one sentence is structured. It can be obtained one of two ways. Stolen through murder or through bloodlines. So I need an English teacher to come on and dissect this for me because the way I'm looking at this, the most obvious interpretation is it can be stolen through murder or you can inherit inherit it. But Does it also mean it could be stolen through bloodlines, which means that now Gavin has Molochai's powers and Molochai does not have them? Kate: like it gets siphoned from parent to child. Rachel: Yes. Kate: That would make sense. Does that mean that that Simeon like who's Simeon's kid then? Who's siphoning his power? Rachel: Why do you think that somebody's siphoning in his power? Kate: Because he's getting weaker. Rachel: Or is it because somebody else is getting stronger and they're able to break through the wards? Kate: Mm. I don't know. There's we're spiraling, we're spiraling. Rachel: I don't know. My head hurts and we've still got so much more episode to do. Kate: But the fact that we are so we're so stuck on the wording of everything here because the words are so intentional for everything Rachel: Yes. Kate: that the vague nature of an English prepositional phrase Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: is driving us crazy. Rachel: Yes, literally insane. Literally insane. Kate: Ha ha ha. Rachel: I mean, no wonder the woman who wrote the most poetic man ever, Gavin Smyth, like no wonder we're able to spiral over every literal senten literally every sentence that LJ Claren writes. Kate: Because we know that there's there's meaning hidden there. We know that it's Rachel: Yeah. Kate: not just flowery language. We we've already seen that. Rachel: And she lives for making people spiral. Kate: so yeah, the the vague imperfections in the English language that allow for interpretation like this is making our job so much harder. Rachel: Yeah. Alright, finally, Ary has both bloodline powers and the powers of the Selvaren, as we discussed. And 400 years ago, Simeon was somehow suppressing her powers, but her death and rebirth, thanks to Molochai, awakened her powers and reset them to their full potential. Simeon is terrified of Ary's untrained powers, begging her to come to the caves for training. She agrees to do so once commencement is over. Kate: So you mentioned in the last episode that you thought maybe Molochai's goal was to awaken Ary's power rather than kill her for good. Did this confirm that theory for you? Rachel: I mean it's certainly more proof to that theory. I definitely think there's more to Molochai than what we know. Like, do I think he's a good guy? So far from what we know, not a good guy. But I just wonder if there's more to it than than we know. Like, is there somebody else? Like, did if he if he and Simeon got their power somehow through some kind of shitty deal, because Clearly Simeon's trapped somewhere, and he can't talk about certain things. W what's going on with Molochai? Is he trying to get out of his deal somehow? And Ary's like a chess piece on his board. Kate: Yeah. Cause we already feel that way about Simeon, you Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: know, that he's not as good as he makes himself out to be, and that he's just playing chess with the people of Nyrida. So why can't the same be true for Molochai as well? Of like maybe he's certainly not a a good guy, certainly far from a good guy, but maybe his motivations are not as basic evil, I guess, as we're thinking. Yeah, maybe it's just not as Rachel: Well maybe it's not as black and white. It maybe it's not as black and white as it seems. Kate: his motivations aren't as black black and white as we assume. So Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: certainly possible. Rachel: And one last thought I had while reading this section. So looking ahead, I have some concerns that we'll see a new threat appear. Someone who kills or maybe attempts to kill Simeon, Molochai, Ary Smyth, or their baby for their powers. Since we know that that's a way to get power. And I mean, five books is a long time to only have Molochai as a threat. I just guarantee you, just having read other romantasy series, I guarantee there's another villain coming. Kate: Well, we've gotten hints of it already, right? We hear Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: we've heard about this mysterious she who comes up. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: There's s you know, whatever the disembodied voices that Ary has been hearing. We see something kind of threatening Simeon towards the end of the book. So do you think that that threat is the voice that Ary has been hearing and the hands that have been coming around her neck? Rachel: Maybe. I mean those hands certainly seem threatening. Kate: Yeah, I don't I don't think there's any way for hands to be like choking you in your nightmares and it to not be a threatening Rachel: I mean I Kate: thing. If you didn't ask for it, it's not Rachel: I gonna say, I mean I Kate: Well that again th th these are non consensual choking hands, okay. Rachel: That she described as not human too. Kate: Yeah, no, she's not having a good time with it, so it's not not a good thing. Rachel: well, speaking of Ary's nightmares, they continue. And Valda informs her that Elias has determined that she will get her own room so the other cadets can sleep. However, Valda doesn't want anyone getting preferential treatment, so she has to choose two people to join her. And of course, Mavic and Mina volunteer. And Kate, this is a trope, right? Because I feel like in every war college scenario, the FMC eventually gets their own room. Kate: Maybe it's like a micro trope? Rachel: Yeah, yeah, sure, micro trope. But I I mean it ha it it's just I love that it keeps happening. Mavic jokingly reveals Fera has been yelling out for someone named Gavin in her sleep, which doesn't bother him because Mina and Marin whine in their sleep all the time. But that's concerning. Like what is she revealing in her sleep? Kate: Right. Yeah, like girl, you have too many secrets to just be blabbing when you're unconscious. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Elias goes away for a few days on some errand. So Ary finally seizes the opportunity to break into his impeccably clean rooms and steal the key to the hidden library. While in there, Valda enters the room. So Ary hides under the desk while Valda rummages in the desk drawers for something. We don't know what. And when I read this the first time, I was so convinced that Valda was a bad guy. And we were about to find out. Because like what are you doing in your boss's desk while he's away? I don't think that anymore, but at the time convinced. But also, does Ary really not have some kind of magic that could help with this? Like she can camouflage herself. Like, can she just like camouflage herself like the wallpaper? Kate: I mean, it did seem like she wasn't even able to camouflage like her scars away when she was changing her appearance. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: She was able to do like her hair color and her eyes or something, but I feel like completely camouflaging her entire body to match the wallpaper might be a little bit beyond her current capabilities. Rachel: Yeah, she needs to get on that. What is that? Autumna? She needs to get on that, get on that power. Kate: Yeah. 'Cause you know there's more like she if if she could really tap into camouflage fully, like there's no no telling what kind of crazy things she'd be able to do. Rachel: Right. Like she'd basically be able to be invisible if she does it right. Kate: Right. Rachel: So we finally see the hidden library, which is really more of like a hidden broom closet. And it's incredibly dusty and clearly has gone untouched for many, many years. It's mostly filled with history books predating the Rexus reign, and there's one book cataloging Nyrida's libraries. So obviously somebody has been hiding away information and is intentionally like covering up history. Because why else do you need to catalog these libraries and then hide that book? Kate: Mm. Rachel: And finally, there's a copy of the Book of the Selvaren, which it turns out was Ary's book. Someone with beautiful handwriting, presumably the clairvoyant Christabel, wrote on the last page of Nyxar's chapter quote That which commands life can break an oath written in blood. And it reminds Ary of how Damond described her blood as commanding life itself when she was resurrected after her death at Molochai's hands. Kate: Yes. And of course it's one line, so it's still pretty vague. Like all the hints that Ary gets about her power. Vague. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: But it's still a win for her. Like it's still something, right? She was literally looking for anything about blood oaths. And this is literally this Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: is how you break a blood oath. But kind of, right? Like it didn't exactly give instructions. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Maybe. Maybe. Kate: Like Also, though, I was kind of screaming at my book when she didn't bother checking the back of the book of the Selvaren at first. She like just dismisses Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: it. She's like, I've read this so many times. I'm like, girl, this is a copy of this book hidden in this like locked, hidden Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: little cubby where all of these books that clearly are important for some reason are hiding, and you're just gonna dismiss it because you've read a different copy of it. Like, it was. crazy that the fact that Shera had to tell her to look at that book. Like Rachel: Again, what do you know, Shera? Because the she obviously Kate: What do you know? Rachel: knew that that was like Kate: She knows so much. She knows so much. But like Ary, if you Rachel: I mean yeah. Kate: find a secret hidden library, and maybe you'll find another one, maybe with that book of all the catalog libraries, you'll go looking in others. Rachel: yeah. Mm-hmm. Kate: Look at every book in the hidden room, okay? Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Ary gives Shera a vial of her blood and sends her to Gavin with a note, quote, My blood will free you, live. Kate: I do believe that her blood has special power. We've we saw that, right, when she healed Shera. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: And there's all these hints. But the idea of Gavin just like receiving a vial of blood and having no idea what to do with it is kind of funny. Like Rachel: Yeah. Kate: is she intending for him to drink it? Like cut himself and smear it into the wound? Like even if Shera had made it to him in time, would he have known what to do with it? Rachel: I mean I d Kate: She's just like, Here, this will fix you. Rachel: I was definitely thinking drink it. Kate: Yeah. But who knows? They have no idea how to actually like use the power in her blood. Rachel: Yeah, true. Kate: One more note from this chapter. When Ary leaves the fortress to meet Shera, she also notes that she can feel the wards around the compound are weaker than they were before. So she can feel the difference just in like a relatively short time that she's been at the fortress. She can Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: already tell that things are weakening. That is not good. Rachel: Yeah, like she's been there for a couple of weeks and she can already sense it. So we know his wards are failing, but clearly it's very rapidly and also why. All right, we're back in a Gavin POV 402 years ago, the first of Soltum. And Ary arrives at Gavin's blacksmith shop slightly early for their planned date in tears and breaks up with him. He knows immediately that it's Simeon's doing, and he suspects Ary is attempting to protect Gavin from Simeon. And he just refuses the breakup. Even when she tells him she doesn't love him, Gavin knows it's not true, and eventually Ary does admit that she loves him. And Gavin argues with her, why can't you have your power and your destiny and us? Why do you have to choose? But he also doesn't give her the opportunity to explain. We'll get into this more, but clearly Ary knows more than any of us realize. Kate: I mean, yeah, this part definitely got me thinking about how much Ary actually knows about herself and about her destiny. Like, we really, really need to unlock those memories because as much as at this point, like Ary is still naive for the fact that she just has not had much experience in the outside world, she clearly knows a Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: lot more than seen so far. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: And I just I need to know what what she's aware of of like her origins and her role in the world, you know? Rachel: Mm-hmm. Gavin proposes to her with some words that I think could be major foreshadowing. Quote: The world can collapse around us, the seas can flood the plains, the trees can burn with unquenchable fire, I will stay by your side. And if by the will of the gods you fall into the earth as it crumbles, I will fall with you. We theorized in the Silversmith that Ary's connection with Nyxar will eventually bring her to the underworld. And I think this definitely gives more credence to that theory. Kate: Most definitely. And then what about the other pieces of what he says here? Like the seas flooding, the trees burning. Do you think that those will happen as well? Because I think that they might, but the question is, does Ary flood the oceans and burn the world down, or do Rainar and Helios do that? Rachel: So you think the gods are gonna be like, give us our power back and come fight her? Kate: I mean, maybe they might they might get themselves involved. Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Or if somebody's stealing power. Yeah. Who is it and what power have they stolen? Kate: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rachel: Although I kind of wanna see Ary just lose her shit and just burn everything down. Kate: The ultimate feminine rage. We're Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: gonna we're gonna Noah's arc this bitch. Rachel: Yeah. Ary refuses Gavin's proposal. Quote, if I choose for myself, the world might die. But if I could truly choose, it would be you. Always. The world might die. We've theorized that Molochai and Simeon's magic is sucking life from the earth. And this makes me think that that theory is spot on and Ary is the key to saving the world and not the one to burn it down. Kate: I mean, it might be a little bit of both, honestly. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: But this part made me think about everything that we're like currently aware of that Simeon has done to Ary. Without her memories, everything is framed to make it seem like Simeon is holding Ary against her will and keeping her in the dark so that he can use her to exact his revenge on Molochai and is just like using her as a pawn. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: And he's clearly doing a lot of that because he's still not. like he's still withholding things from her. But what if Ary was in on at least some of it from the beginning? Like before she goes into her coma and loses all of her memories. What if she was kind of working with Simeon or at least knew enough about what was going on that she knew that She needed to work with him, you know? Rachel: Well, first of all, I hate that. I mean, no, I hear what you're saying. I I hope that that's not the case that she's just like working with him on all of it. But I hear what you're saying about like her knowingly working alongside him, and it kind of seems that way. Like she thinks that the world's going to end if she doesn't follow through with his plan. But we also know that he's a master manipulator. It's the same guy that told Kate: Yes. Rachel: her He had she had to go to the caves to even hear about her mom, you know? So like he's telling her the things that he needs to tell her to get her to do what he wants her to do. Kate: Right. Rachel: And he's he knows exactly how to pull those strings. Kate: Very true. Very true. Yeah. I'm I'm not saying this to be like Simeon isn't an asshole. More so just like how much is he actually keeping from her? Or how much did he originally keep from her? Or like was she kind of in on it at least to some degree before she lost her memories? Because I thought about this again when Ary leaves Gavin at the cabin. Of like the way that she is like, I have to go with him, I have to do this, I don't have a choice. Like, did she know what was going to happen to her when she went with Simeon? Rachel: No, I hear what you're saying. It it there's definitely the potential. And but again, I I still think it goes back to manipulation and her thinking like she has to do this to save the world. And I also think it comes down to the fact that she never chose anything for herself before. All she ever knew was she needs to save the world. And then she falls in love and is trying to figure out if there's a way that she can have both. Kate: Mm-hmm. And then whatever Simeon says to her when he finds her at the cabin Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: convinces her that she can't. Rachel: Yeah, he probably told her that she was being like selfish and you know, it would be her fault whatever happens next. Kate: Mm. So then the only question that I have is why did he erase all of her memories and not just her memories of Gavin? Rachel: That's good point. I mean he clearly thinks it would be easier to start from scratch. Computer reset. I'm gonna turn it off and turn it back on. Kate: Right, well what once again I think he is once again though, I think he he has created his own problems because clearly that Rachel: Yeah. Kate: is not the easiest way to go about this. Rachel: Yeah. Gavin is, of course, distraught, and here we get a little clue that perhaps Molochai's evil magic does run through his veins. Quote: Bitterness coated my heart in vile black sludge that wanted to drag life and joy down with it. And that black sludge is very reminiscent of what Ary experienced being forced into her body at the end of the Silversmith. Kate: Yes, it does. It is sounds very familiar. And I mean, again, we we've seen references to shadows, like Gavin Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: seeing shadows at the edges of his vision or shadows that want to like cloud his judgment and things like that. So like there there have been a lot of references that have made us question his connection to Molochai and or Nyxar, you know, both Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: dark, powerful beings. So yeah, this is but this one, like the the word sludge is such a specific kind Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: of visual that Rachel: Yes. Kate: like that's that's very specific to what happened to Ary because sludge is just like not a common enough descriptor to not be connected. Rachel: Yeah. Ary leaves telling Gavin he is the best thing that ever happened to her and the best that ever will. And this made me wonder if maybe Ary has clairvoyance like her mother. Kate: Either that or she believes that her destiny is something so horrible and dark that this time with him will have to be the best that she can imagine feeling. Rachel: Like she knows the awful fate that she's walking into. Kate: Yeah. So she doesn't she can't necessarily see the future and know that she's not gonna be happy again, but she's like, I'm pretty sure that this is the best as that it gets. Rachel: Yeah. Three weeks pass and Gavin is deeply depressed and he hardly eats. He's struggling to get out of bed. And he's working his ass off because it just gives him something to do and a place to channel his rage. And this particular day is gloomy and it feels like there's a grim haze over the city. Through the rain, he hears shouting. Queen Christabel is dead. Gavin tears his apron off to run to find Ary. And it just feels like this very dramatic movie scene because when he turns around, he finds Ary standing in his door just in tears, and you just can picture it against the rain. And she apologizes for leaving him, explaining that. She couldn't leave her mother and Simeon was threatening something. Kate: What do you think he was threatening? Like was he threatening to put her into her sleep early, or maybe he threatened Gavin's safety? Rachel: I definitely think there's a potential he threatened Gavin's safety. I also thought maybe he was threatening to do something to her mother, which is why she couldn't leave her. Kate: But like her mother was already so close to death. Rachel: yeah, no, you're right. He was probably definitely threatening Gavin. Kate: Which again, manipulation. Rachel: Yeah, mm-hmm. Simeon had locked her up, but Ary stopped taking her power suppressing potion. Once her mother died, there was nothing to keep her there, so she used her firepower to melt the bars on her window and climb down to her freedom. And she tells Gavin that they're no longer safe in the city and warns him that being with her is putting him in danger. When he reassures her that he doesn't care, Ary says, quote, if the offer still stands, please make me your wife. Kate: And this is one of the moments that I sometimes struggle reading romantasy in general, because in my mind, I'm just thinking here like this girl is not in the best mental state to agree to something this big. She just lost her mom. She's being threatened by her uncle. She just escaped from an abusive, isolated existence. Like, I know she feels pressed for time, but maybe stabilize for like a second. Before making such a huge decision. But I know that that's just like that's just how that's just the genre, you know, like these are big decisions and it's all like based on these huge emotions and feelings and things. And I just have to like take my logic out of it to be like, this girl is unstable right now. She should not be agreeing to marry somebody. Rachel: Yeah, but I mean I think she loves him and she wanted to say yes before, but she had all these things tying her down and now she doesn't. Kate: Yeah. Rachel: But yeah, I mean I d I bet I I I i it's probably hard for you to read that she can wield fire in magic and water too. Kate: Well see, no, see, I can suspend my disbelief for that. It's the emotional stuff that I'm just like this girl is just not emotionally ready to commit to somebody. The powers are fine. Rachel: I don't know, it's giving Simeon. It's giving Simeon. I think she I think she wants to choose for herself and she is able to choose for herself. Like she's I I don't know. They seem happy together for ten days. Kate: Yeah, no, I mean you're right. Let's see if this wedding ends in disaster. Rachel: And Gavin says, I'll get us a horse, so one horse specifically, so we've got a teary reunion and a hint at a one horse trope. Back in present day, it's the first day of Floris, and Reverie is approaching, an annual weeklong festival in the caves, celebrating the gods and currying their favor for successful crop seeding, and eventually a plentiful harvest. To give the cadets a taste of home, Elias will hold a reverie ball on the tenth day of Floris. Mina is confused by the second dress Maren sent her. The first pale blue conservative dress is very much her style, and she's very confused as to why they would send her this quote sinful glittery black number. And Mina agrees to let Ary wear the extra dress. And then Ary finds a hidden note from Gemma. Make him cry. Kate: So clearly the dress was never intended for Mina, but Rachel: Yeah. Kate: but I love this encouragement from Gemma to fuck with Elias. Rachel: Yes, yes. Kate: Well. Rachel: Ary thinks about her powers and notes how she has yet to wield Effusia's emotions or Nyxar's night. She thinks maybe she won't be able to wield Nyxar's power until she can wield all of the others. Kate: So at this point, you know, thinking about what's keeping her from wielding the two powers, her idea that maybe Nyxar's powers will come to her when she's mastered the others might make sense, since he's the most powerful god. But I was also thinking that maybe she can't wield it because someone else already has it. Like, I don't know if the god's powers are finite in that way, you know, of like Only one person can wield them at a time. It's possible. but if that's true, then I was thinking, like, what if somebody already took those from her somehow? Like, maybe Gavin? Like if Rachel: Mm. Kate: a piece of Gavin's soul is owned by Ary, which we had talked about previously, maybe a piece of her soul is with Gavin now, and maybe that part is Nyxar's powers? I don't know. Do you think I'm reaching here? Rachel: Maybe, but I think we get some hints later in the book that support the theory that as soulmates, Gavin and Ary own a part of one another's souls. I'm just so torn on where the powers are coming from and how it's given from one person to the next that like I don't want to say for sure that it's because Gavin has that power. You know what I mean? But I I I Kate: Right. I know. I know. Rachel: see what you're saying though. It does make sense. Kate: Because when when it comes to Gavin's powers, we've seen kind of two roots of it, right? We've seen Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: the ways in which it feels like a connection to Molochai's power, the sludge, the shadows, right? Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: But we've also seen references to how he like calms her nightmares and Rachel: Mm. Kate: how she feels so protected and kind of drawn to his darkness, which is exactly the kind of connection that she feels to Nyxar. So Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: we've really seen both. And there's always the possibility that he has both, right? Just like Ary has both, the power of the gods and this other magic. Maybe Gavin has that too, because we've seen references to both. And I don't know that we can say definitively that it's one or the other, but this part made me feel confident about Nyxar. Rachel: Well, I think So I think this is a good time for us to talk about Gavin's mom. And the idea that are is his power only coming from Molochai, or would he potentially have power from his mother as well? Because with Gavin and Ary, we have two dead parents that they didn't know. We have Gavin has his mother, Ary has her father. And they have these sort of like mysterious powers that we don't understand. And we know that magic comes. Through the bloodline, and it also comes from murder. So I will I'm curious if Molochai actually sought out Gavin's mother because she was a god or had some kind of power of the gods, and that's why he raped her. If this was like an intentional move. To create the next level of the bloodline because the power gets stronger through the bloodlines. And then by killing her, did he then steal some of her power? Kate: And then she did she just like hide Gavin away from him then? And that's why they didn't have any connection until Gavin seeks Molochai out to make the deal with him? Rachel: I mean I just wonder if like Molochai just didn't care about him or he wanted to see what happened. I don't know. I don't know. Like she didn't hide him. We don't Kate: We don't we don't have all the pieces to this yet, but Rachel: have all the pieces. But I just think that like you're right. He clearly has Nyxar's soothing shadows. And there's no way that's coming from Molochai. Kate: Right. Right. And so then I'm yeah, I'm wondering then, because we don't know much about Gavin's mom's death, right? We know like she Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: died during childbirth that potentially we right. Rachel: Potentially. That's what Gavin that's what Gavin believes that she died during childbirth. Kate: Right. But it could be that she died after childbirth but just at a time when he was too young to remember her, right? So Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: it's possible that Molochai did seek her out and did kill her for her powers without knowing that she was pregnant and had a kid. Rachel: Right, right. Yes. Kate: So Rachel: Great point. Maybe she gave Gavin to Isaac and Eden, pretended to die, and then actually did die. Like to your point, hid him away. Kate: Maybe. Yeah, 'cause maybe she knew that Molochai was looking for her. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, because well, Kate: So Rachel: we get into it when they have their interaction, Gavin and Molochai, but he said that she basically consented once she learned what would happen if she didn't. And it's like, sure, maybe that is just a classic description of rape, or maybe there were other consequences involved when it comes to the world and the magic within the world. Kate: Yep. Another thought that I had about Gavin's mom now that we're on the topic. Is she dead? Rachel: That's a good question Kate: Because Rachel: too. Kate: we don't know that for sure. I mean, again, in in our minds, if we don't see the body ourselves, if we don't see it on page, Rachel: Nobody, no crime. Kate: no body, no crime. And so we know that we're looking for some mysterious she that is threatening Ary. Rachel: No. No. No. Ary doesn't her mother-in-law is not strangling her in her sleep. I hope that's Kate: How do you know that? How are you so sure? Rachel: not the case. I just think that she's good. I think that Nyxar is good. And I do think that she has Nyxar's. Kate: You think you think that she's Nyxar? Nyxar is a man. Rachel: Okay. Nyxar's descendant, maybe. I think she's described as looking kind of like Nyxar. She has black hair and pale skin. Sounds like Nyxar to me. Kate: So you think maybe she's a demigod descendant of Nyxar? Rachel: Yeah. Kate: Maybe. Rachel: But I see your point. It does it does sound like she could be the Kate: I'm just saying Rachel: evil she in her dreams. Kate: I don't I don't obviously, I have no idea. I'm making I'm making so much shit up here, but just the fact that she's a mysterious woman that we've kind of been you has been introduced in some way. We know has some connection to all of these people, Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: but we don't see anything about her. We just know, she she died, whatever, off screen. She died. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: And we are now looking for and and worth saying maybe she had all these powers, right? Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: And now we're looking for some mysterious woman who Rachel: Yeah. Kate: has a lot of powers and is, you know, I mean, it sounds like she's threatening Ary. Obviously, the hands around the necks is very threatening, right? Like we talked Rachel: Yeah. Kate: about already. But we don't really know her intentions or her motivations because we haven't met her yet. So I'm just saying if we're if we have two mysterious, potentially very powerful women, are we sure that they're not the same? Rachel: No, we're not. We we're not sure. We're not sure. Kate: Yeah. Okay. Should we get back on track? Rachel: Yes. Okay. So Kate: Get getting back to the chapter. Rachel: When the twins go for a run, Ary stays back to practice her gravity magic from Aurana, and just as she is levitating a book, Mina and Mavic return, and they panic and run for the door, which Ary slams shut with her wind magic from Sussuro and then freezes over with her ice magic from Nevelin. Kate: This is honestly kind of hilarious. She freaks out at being discovered and ends up just revealing like more and more of her powers. She's Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: like tripling down. Rachel: Yeah, yeah. And no, I mean she makes it way worse. Way worse. Kate: Just makes it so much worse. Rachel: Initially, Mina and Mavic are shocked and scared, and Mavic immediately jumps into action to protect his sister. But Ary reveals her true identity and shares details that Caz told her on their journey about his life with Marin and proves that it's really her. Eventually, they come around from fear and mistrust to just hurt. Why did she hide this from them? And they're locked in the room together until the ice melts. So Ary spends the day answering all of their questions that she can, other than anything about Gavin or information that could put them in danger. And Kate, it just feels so good that the twins know. Like, I love the pacing of this book. There really aren't any slow paced sections, and I feel like this happened at the Perfectly right time. So we can now enter the second trial with two people knowing Ary's secret and all the possibilities that could come with that. Kate: I agree. I feel like this was the perfect point to just relieve some of the tension from her Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: like deception. Rachel: Yeah. The morning of the first trial arrives, and so does Ary's period, which is just the worst fucking timing. And it gives her the same PTSD reaction that we saw in the Silversmith. Mina is incredibly observant and notices, which leads to a conversation about what Mina actually wants to be doing, helping women. Mina is so gentle and caring. I would just love to see her become a midwife. And this gives us a glimpse of the kind of ruler that Ary will be. She genuinely wants to know about Mina's goals and dreams, regardless of what Mina's been told will help the army. Like she wants to know, put that aside. What do you want? Kate: Yes. And I love getting, like you said, this glimpse of what kind of ruler Ary will be, because this is how you build a healthy and functional society. Like allow people to pursue their passions, allow them to do the things that they find like satisfaction from. And a lot Rachel: Uh-huh. Kate: of times that'll end up being things that help other people. Rachel: Well, I mean, it's pretty short sighted of Elias to say every single person needs to be in the army now. Like, you need nurses at least. Like, even if she can't be just a midwife, if she is a healthcare professional, I certainly think that's something that would be useful to them. Kate: Absolutely. And also just if you like I mean it it's hard to say. We don't get we get some glimpses at what the the society of the caves look like. And it does seem like it's a pretty healthy society, like it's not completely centered around just military service. But it seem it definitely seems like it's leaning more towards like the desperation of everybody needs to be in the military because like Rachel: No, no, we know that they have to be. No, it it used to be that you could choose to be. You used to be able to choose to be. Kate: Well, we n we know that they Right. So so it's like like you're on the cusp, right? So like you the the society still seems kind of healthy, but you're like getting on that slippery slope of now the next generations are not yeah. So so future generations future generations Rachel: Well yeah, because now that they're desperate, yes. Now that the queen's dead and they're desperate, yeah. Kate: are going to have a more rough time and it's just going to destabilize the entire society. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: You know, like you can't build your entire society around military service and building an army, it's like, at what point are you no longer having a society for the military to protect? You know, like what are you fighting Rachel: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Exactly. Kate: for if you're not maintaining what makes your society worth living in? Rachel: Right, yeah. Elias has returned and is looking a little worse for the wear, and we soon learn why. He's been off hunting Molochai's beasts to bring them back for the second trial. Each team will need to fight a beast, and as the winner of the last trial and team of one, Ary is up first. So Elias loosens the chain, restraining what sounds like a massive demented white alligator, but Ary has a plan. She takes Mavic's sword and descends into the fighting pit, and she uses Soltum's power to mentally communicate with the beast, and we get some very interesting tidbits here. She refers to the beast as belonging to Molochai, and the beast responds that she is quote theirs. I am thinking this means the Selvaren, another reference to Ary being made. What do you think? Kate: I agree. so again, who is leading the other side if the Selvaren are at the helm on Ary's side? Because I don't think it's Molochai. Like also, Rachel: Right. Kate: does that mean that Ary is at the mercy of the Selvaren? Rachel: Good question. Kate: If she's theirs, like she's under their control, kind of is like the the subtext that I kind of got from that. Not that she's like, you're you're on their side. It's more like they own you. Rachel: Mmm. I read it as like they created her the same way that Molochai created Kate: Mm. Rachel: the beasts, but you're right, because Molochai was able to control the beasts as well. That being said, Ary can control them also, and her powers are stronger than his. So I don't know. Kate: Right. The the web of control is getting Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: messy. Who's really at the helm? Rachel: Mm-hmm. The beast also tells Ary that her heart is not her own. Quote, it beats for no one here, presumably referencing Gavin. And suddenly Ary feels a pain explode in her chest. But when she looks down, there is no wound. But it gives the beast just enough time to attack. And we've theorized that Gavin and Ary are fated mates. And I think this is the biggest proof we have. Though it hasn't happened yet, I believe this is the moment that Gavin died. And Ary's physical response implies that they are mates, that they are physically connected. The chapter 31 epigraph. Also gives us a clue that Ary senses it. Quote: I wish there was some way to know that you're okay. Something feels wrong. Kate: That's exactly what I was thinking here as well. Combined with the idea that Gavin actually possesses her heart in a way that's beyond just emotion, it would make Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: total sense if she could feel it when his heart stopped beating. Rachel: Ary commands the beast to stop, and it pauses and she stabs it through the eye with her dagger. It thrashes around, its tail dangerously close to killing her as she scrambles for Mavic's sword. Just out of reach. She feigns a fall, and as soon as the beast straddles her, she shoves the sword through the roof of its mouth. Just before it dies, the beast tells Ary, She is searching for you, and the claw mark bruises on Ary's neck burn. Kate: So those icy hands in Ary's nightmare have gotta belong to this she, right? Rachel: A thousand percent. A thousand percent. Ary s Kate: And maybe it's Gavin's mom. Rachel: Ary stabs the beast several more times for good measure and crawls out of the fighting pit, demanding that Elias put a stop to the trial. The other cadets could die, but he refuses and sends her back to the barracks. Mavic tells her that they need to prove themselves as well. And just before Ary reveals herself and ends the trial, she remembers overhearing Elias tell Val he wouldn't throw the cadets to the wolves. There's something she's missing here. Kate: I appreciate Ary's double tap here. Just saying. That's how you do it. Rachel: On the beast, do you mean? Okay. Kate: Making sure that it's fucking dead. You don't just stab it once and hope hope for the best. Rachel: Yes. Yes. Yeah. The twins return to the cabin, and as they discuss the rest of the trial, Valda knocks, summoning Ary to meet with Elias. And as soon as she enters his office, Ary immediately rounds on him, telling him how dangerous that was. Things get heated, and Elias pulls rank. Not wanting to reveal herself, Ary backs down as he reminds her that the beasts were chained the entire time. There was apparently a mechanism on the end of the chain to release a poison that would immediately paralyze. And kill the beasts if necessary. Kate: I do appreciate that these trials, unlike a lot of the other kind of war training trials that we see in romantasy, do seem more aimed at like actually training and less at being so brutal that it wipes out most of the ranks. Like it seems like so Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: many other trials are just like, well, most people die, but if you make it through, congratulations. And these ones Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: are like, you really can't afford to dwindle our own numbers like that. So we're gonna train you and we're gonna make sure you're prepared, but like we're not trying to kill you. Rachel: Right, right. Elias tells Ary he was impressed by her and that while she'll continue with commencement, she'll also join a small group of soldiers stationed at the barracks that will protect the cadets and help with special operations from time to time. And the first mission starts tomorrow. Before leaving, Ary mentions the Duke of Peradine and the dusty old book that she found, mentioning his enchanted tome with information about what's across the Brinnean Sea. Elias is obviously very confused and questions why she's bringing this up, and Ary says that with the queen gone, perhaps Simeon could use the book of magic in his fight against Molochai, and Elias, of course, just dismisses her. Kate: And you know that that also made it onto my cons list. Rachel: Of course, yeah. As it should. Kate: Mm. Rachel: And we're back in a Gavin POV. So unfortunately, we did skip the one horse trope, but we're reunited with Ary and Gavin, basically on their honeymoon. They've been married for 10 days and they're hiding in a cabin by the sea, 50 miles south of Brinnea. Vic and his cousin went north and west, spreading word about them with the goal of confusing Simeon's search. And as they cuddle in bed, we get a quote, eyes up here moment from Ary to Gavin. Gavin gets up to bring Ary her daily contraceptive, which she needs to take at the same time every day. And she sometimes forgot, but after she missed it on their second day in the cabin, Gavin made it his job to remember. Kate: a missed contraceptive, you say? If you Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: didn't believe that she had a baby up to this point for some reason, then you had to know that she was gonna get pregnant at the first mention of a missed contraceptive. But also, you know that I was disappointed not to get an explicit scene here. I mean, it sounds like they spent most of their ten married days fucking, but we didn't get to see th those scenes. At least yet. Rachel: Yeah. I Kate: I was bummed. Rachel: wonder if we're only going to get present day spicy scenes because it would be like maybe a little bit weird to see something that Ary doesn't remember. I don't know. That being said, right, yes. Kate: Well what if she remembers though? That's the thing. I'm still hoping that we get her memories back. Rachel: True. True. that being said, I also just do not like the virginity trope and I have no interest in a Losing her virginity scene. So I'm o I'm okay skipping that particular spicy scene, but I agree there were nine other days that we could cover. Mm-hmm. Kate: Right, that's what I'm saying. There are plenty of opportunities to we don't have to see the first one. That's fine. They can keep that for themselves, but let Rachel: Ha Kate: us see another one. Rachel: Gavin looks at a letter from his mother that they found in Isaac and Eden's old papers revealing that Molochai is his father through rape. Which Kate, I think that could be the clue that what you're saying about his mother giving Gavin to Isaac and Eden. That could be a clue about that. Because if she just died in childbirth, why would she write them a letter? When would she even have time to write them a letter? Kate: Right. that's a good point. Rachel: Ary comforts Gavin, he didn't know Molochai was his father, and he's nothing like him. Gavin promises that Ary will never need to know a world without him, and he certainly kept that promise. Kate: What a bold promise to make though if you don't know yet that you can come back from the dead. Rachel: Yeah, that's devotion. He's like, I'm gonna figure out a way. Kate: Yeah. Rachel: Ary's stomach growls and Gavin heads out to hunt down a meal for them. As he leaves, he mentions that he should shave, but Ary says she likes the beard. And Kate, we love a backstory, even if it's just the facial hair. Kate: Guaranteed he has never been without the beard from this moment on. Rachel: Well, we actually see later in the book, even when he's hot as fuck in the desert, he doesn't shave the beard off. He like cannot bring himself to shave it off. Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Rachel: An hour later, Gavin returns home from his hunt and finds Ary missing. She left her wedding ring and a note. Quote, It was Simeon, do not follow me. Gavin panics and then says, fuck that, as he sets off to search for her. Kate: And we get this quote from him, quote, Darkness danced in my vision. I wanted to set it free, use it to find her, and destroy everyone in my path. And this made me question again whether he already had his shadow powers at this point and whether they were just lying dormant until something awakened them. Rachel: Yeah, good point. Also, ten days. Ten days. This man literally never loved anyone in his entire life until he met Ary. And then he had ten days married to her before she was kidnapped. And then he spent 402 years searching for her. This is literally the saddest story I've ever read. Like it was sad before, but will we add the ten days on top? That's such a small speck of time in half a century. A cent or yeah, half a century, half a millennia. One other item of note in this chapter, during his hunt, Gavin was daydreaming of all the places he wanted to visit with Ary, including a place called Peradine, which sounds like a warm honeymoon destination where lovers lounge and make love all day. Kate: Which makes it kind of sad that when Ary goes there, she goes with Elias. Rachel: Yeah, makes it really sad. Back in an Ary POV chapter, Mavic shakes Ary awake. He and Mina are horrified to see the fresh bruises around her neck, which Ary explains are from her nightmares. Who the fuck is this she and how is she physically reaching her? Like that's some crazy kind of magic. Kate: It is. And it seems like just from some of the like visuals that we got or Ary's descriptions of her nightmares, seems like she's like coming through Simeon's veil, or what we Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: think is Simeon's veil, which is maybe easier to lift while she's sleeping. You know, like we've seen before Rachel: Mm. Kate: in other stories where like, you know, when you're sleeping, you're more vulnerable. Your mind is easier to penetrate when you're in that state. Like of unconsciousness. But whoever she Rachel: Yeah. Kate: is, I think she's the source of Simeon's power and at least part of Molochai's as well. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Well, it's interesting too because not only is she breaking through his veil, she's breaking through his wards, technically. Kate: Mm-hmm. Well Unless she's a god because the wards don't work on the power of the gods. Rachel: So she must be a god. She has to be a god. Kate: Or she's po more powerful than Simeon. Rachel: I like the idea that she's a god. Kate: Me too, but just that we just 'cause we know that his wards are weakening. Rachel: Yeah. When Ary sees the sun, she realizes she's late for her before sunrise meeting. Worst first day ever. And Kate: Whoopsie. Rachel: when she arrives, she's greeted by one of Alec Gerard's cronies, Micah Sharpe. Someone named Pendrick is briefing the room on the status of their troops on the southern border between Wymara and Tugaf. And for the next few weeks, between the third trial and reverie, the men will continue to monitor the path. The caves and escort any messengers. Elias asks Ary to stay after to ask her about the bruises on her neck because she was in such a rush she forgot to camouflage them before going to the meeting. She manages to dodge the question and he invites her to an informal gathering with the group that night. But not that informal because he tells her not to be late this time, which is annoying. Kate: Also not that informal in that she's really pressured to go. Rachel: Right, right. Like no one actually likes an after work work event. Like if you want me to go to happy hour, make it at three PM because the sacrifice should be on the company, not my personal time. Kate: Yeah. mandatory fun is like an oxymoron. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ary asks if Elias has any leads on who murdered the man from the ravine, and it sounds like he does, but he's not telling Ary or anyone besides Valda until he has more information. And later that day, as Ary gets ready for her evening with Elias' crew, Mavic seems pretty worried about her spending time with Alec Gerard and his cronies. He reveals that there's a rumor going around, likely started by them. That she's sleeping with the commander to earn his favor. And of fucking course. Men are so fucking predictable. I'm sorry I'm cursing so much in this episode, but it's just like these men. What a classic way of diminishing a woman's accomplishments. She slept her way to the top. It's not because she literally bit fucking Finch to beat him in a fight. Or like that she fought a beast one-on-one. Kate: Well, even just the idea that someone can sleep their way to the top is such a bullshit because it's always like rooted in the sexism towards women and never Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: rooted in how about the man that perpetrated that? How about the man Rachel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kate: who traded favors for sex? Why are Rachel: Right, right. Kate: they never the ones that are vilified for that? And Rachel: Right. Kate: Like why doesn't why does that only undercut Ary's reputation and not Elias's, if that were true? Rachel: Exactly. Exactly. And well, and if Elias heard that, he would be livid because to your point, that's exactly what it does. Kate: Well, it's what it should do. Rachel: Yeah, maybe it doesn't with those men, but I think Elias would think that it did not look good for his Kate: Yes. Rachel: leadership skills. 'Cause it it's it's showing a questionable judgment. Ary arrives at this mandatory work event and this party is creepy. All of Alec Gerard's cronies are at this little gathering, and Ary is the only woman other than the little blonde accessory sitting on Elias' lap. Kate: This is so gross. This is another item for the cons list. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Elias putting Ary in this situation, knowing that these are not honorable men. Like, even if he doesn't still understand the extent of how bad they are, he still knows Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: that they're creepy. Like he still doesn't fully trust them, I don't think. And the fact that he's putting her in this situation, he's like, you can't be so dumb. As to think that she's not gonna be uncomfortable in this situation. Rachel: Yeah. He knows. He knows. He's testing her. Ary refuses any out mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Kate: Which is fucked up. To test her like that. What to what end? Rachel: Ary refuses any alcohol and Elias chuckles when Ary puts her water canteen on the table. Like she's just like, I am a professional here. Hendrix sh Kate: And I'm going to bring my own drinks. Thank you. Nobody none of these men are going to serve me a drink. Thank you. Rachel: Right. Hendrix Sharpe says some generally creepy stuff to Ary and I love how she handles it. Do you ask all your female peers questions like that, like Valda Hoss? And clearly they are all terrified of Valda, as they very well should be. The conversation turns to someone's recent trip to Peradine, which it sounds like is basically sex tourism, and they start talking about their sexual exploits. Fuck these guys. Fuck these guys. Not literally, because I'm just so creeped out by the kinds of pathetic men that frequent strip clubs and brothels, and all these guys, other than Elias, give that. Like, Elias clearly has never paid for sex in his life, but all of his disgusting friends. That's the only way that they can get it. Kate: These guys are so gross. And also just like knowing what we know about them, I just really hope that if Perradine basically is built for sex tourism, that the sex workers there are like protected like any other worker would be, and that these creeps weren't able to abuse them. Because I just do not like the idea of these creeps being just like unleashed on a population like that. Rachel: That's a really good point. That's a really good point. Some highlights from the conversation include news about an injured horse, which of course Ary sneaks off at the end of the night and heals, and Ary telling them that none of the men in the room would know what to do with her because she prefers men capable of more than floundering on top of me like a spineless fish. Kate: Which I loved. I loved that. But I was kind of conflicted here because again, I obviously I love Ary standing up for herself and telling these men to fuck off. But knowing how vulnerable she is here and how little Elias is doing to protect her, I do feel like antagonizing these assholes is a risky move and I hate that. Rachel: I think worst case scenario, she could just drown them all with a flick of a wrist and then freeze them and then command any number of beasts to come snack on their popsicles. Kate: I mean this is a great visual. I do I do love that idea, but her powers are not that predictable as we will soon see. Rachel: Yeah. We see just how creepy Alec Gerard is when he seemingly jumps to Ary's aid in the conversation, but then moments later goes full on Predator when he insists on walking her back to her cabin despite her protests. He touches her and calls her a tease. And fortunately, Elias follows and reprimands him before revealing to Ary that he doesn't trust his men. And I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Ary's plan to assess her people under disguise is brilliant. She can see exactly how awful these people are, and she can also understand Elias' plight. He needs fighters. So she has an interesting predicament. How can she build her army while insisting that they have morals? Kate: I mean, ultimately I just don't know what use soldiers are if you can't trust them. I'm obviously not a military strategist, but if there's a threat within your own ranks, like a bad apple, you know, that can poison the rest, that Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: seems like it would be more of a threat than any one additional body would bring as a benefit. Rachel: Yeah. That's very good point. Very good point. And I think that they're gonna that's gotta be something that we see in book three. Like them deciding what type of army they're gonna have and what type of boundaries they're gonna create. As Elias and Ary part ways for the evening, we also part ways because this brings us to the end of our coverage for today. So should we you, thank you. Kate: what a nice transition. That was lovely. Rachel: So, should we count down our tropes and theories? I don't know how easy it's gonna be to count down these theories, but we can at least try. Kate: my god. Okay. Well we we'll do our best because we we threw a few in there that I don't even know if we were planning on covering, but we'll see. Rachel: Yeah, no, we went off script, so for anybody that's still listening, we're so happy you're here. Kate: Thank you. This this was a wild one. you can see how how we got to the point where we're like, we should have a podcast because we were having these conversations before we had a platform. and we were like, We just have too many thoughts for Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: for us to be the only people hearing them. All right. Rachel: Yeah, no, it was it was it was us and the bartender who probably thought that we were crazy. Kate: God. Yeah, because you listen, I was also breaking down the spicy scenes at happy hour. That that was not just for the podcast. Alright, let's get into the tropes. so I'm gonna count one horse, even though technically we didn't really see it. We did get the reference to it. And we've Rachel: It was implied. Kate: seen a one horse, we it was implied, and we've seen a one-horse from them before. So we we kind of know how it would go. We got the private dorm microtrope that we're calling out here. I'm gonna keep putting found family on here because every time that Mavic and Mina Are in the picture. I Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: love them and I love their connection to Ary. We get the Eyes Up Here microtrope from the not quite spicy scene that we get from them in their 10 days of marriage. we get the war training trials, of course. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: we have a teary-eyed reunion Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: and the contraceptive troubles that Rachel: Yes. Kate: pesky little missed contraception that. Rachel: Whoopsie. Kate: Will obviously come back. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: And then as far as our theories, again, I'm gonna try to round this up a little bit. so Simeon is under some kind of like a deal, whether it's with like a fairy or a god or somebody, somebody powerful, and it's why he can't share the source of his magic or details about like where he's been or what's going on. The magic is connected to the language of the Selvaren, which is something that we theorized in the Silversmith as well. Molochai killed a god for his extra powers, possibly Gavin's mother, who we are also theorizing either was if she's dead, or maybe is if she's maybe not dead, a god. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: which could be why Molochai targeted her. And potentially she hid Gavin away with Isaac and Eden again, either before she died not in childbirth or before she just disappeared and Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: maybe didn't die. We'll see. That's th this is a theory that we're gonna continue to flesh out because we are just getting pieces of it right now. But I don't know, things are kind of clicking for me on that one. So I'm very intrigued by this idea. I'm gonna keep thinking about it. another theory is that Molochai attempted to kill Ary in order to wake up her powers, not necessarily steal them, or Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: at least not yet. going back to our theory that Ary and Gavin are soulmates slash fated mates. and that they own a piece of one another's souls and that there are Rachel: Mm. Kate: implications for that, positive or negative, not sure. and then finally, Ary was made, capital by the Selvaren. Rachel: So basically we've got a ton of theories. And listeners, drop us a comment and let us know what you think. If you think we're on to something here, if you think that, you know, maybe we're just completely spiraling and we should just turn off the mic today. We'd love to hear from you. And we want to hear your theories as well. Kate: Yeah. I think we should turn off the mic either way. I think we both need to to go settle down a little bit. But if you want to drop us a comment while you're there, go ahead and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your five star reviews and comments are incredibly valuable in helping us grow. And like Rachel said, we just love hearing from you and connecting with you. Rachel: And this concludes episode three of our deep dive into the incendiary. Join us next week for Reverie. See you next week. Kate: Woo Bye.