Latest / OneLegUpAlex Media / OneLegUpAlex News - NC State Professor Nathan Goldman Talks Refunds, Dividends and SALT Deductions As We Near Tax Season 1-9-26

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OneLegUpAlex News - NC State Professor Nathan Goldman Talks Refunds, Dividends and SALT Deductions As We Near Tax Season 1-9-26 · OneLegUpAlex Media

0:03
Speaker 1: All right. We don't often do this here at the
0:05
Speaker 1: one that got alex Network, but we're bringing the back
0:07
Speaker 1: pages and the front pages and the pages of the
0:09
Speaker 1: paper to life by having someone featured in the New
0:12
Speaker 1: York Post a couple of weeks ago on what to
0:14
Speaker 1: expect in the tax dividends, Professor Nathan Goleman. For those
0:17
Speaker 1: reading the posts, they read your commentary on how the
0:20
Speaker 1: salt deduction, how all these different things are going to
0:23
Speaker 1: lead to better dividends for us? Is that what we're
0:24
Speaker 1: looking at this year?
0:26
Speaker 2: Yeah? And probably characteris it, Moore? Is a better refund
0:30
Speaker 2: or a smaller tax payer either.
0:33
Speaker 1: With tax refund and all that. And I know in
0:36
Speaker 1: an economy we're all looking for that. But to keep
0:39
Speaker 1: it newsy, does anything with this weekend and now maybe
0:42
Speaker 1: running another country affect all of this. I mean, it
0:45
Speaker 1: is some breaking news that happened since we talked.
0:48
Speaker 2: I don't think that this would necessary impact what's going on.
0:50
Speaker 2: But we're really talking about is a huge change in
0:55
Speaker 2: tax law that occurred that was signed into Lawn July fourth,
0:59
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. And
1:02
Speaker 2: what that essentially did is it lowered a lot of
1:06
Speaker 2: the tax liability that taxpayer is going to expect to face. Now.
1:09
Speaker 2: One key thing about that, though, is that you have
1:13
Speaker 2: tax payments that you make all the time, so you
1:15
Speaker 2: may combine your paycheck every other week, once a month,
1:17
Speaker 2: whatever it is. A lot of times employers don't make
1:20
Speaker 2: adjustments to things like the One Big Beautiful Bill Act,
1:24
Speaker 2: so they're continuing to tax you at the same rate
1:26
Speaker 2: on average throughout the year, which, in turn, once you
1:29
Speaker 2: hit the end of the year and as tax legislation
1:31
Speaker 2: comes into play, is going to lower what you pay
1:33
Speaker 2: taxes and potentially increase your tax refil.
1:38
Speaker 1: And that has been news. And is this a good thing?
1:40
Speaker 1: I mean, it's going to boost up, you know, approval
1:44
Speaker 1: numbers out of the mid term. I mean, I don't
1:46
Speaker 1: know if we should go there, but hey, you got
1:48
Speaker 1: a better refund. Maybe that does approve improve things for
1:50
Speaker 1: the midterms for Republicans especially.
1:54
Speaker 2: It's all about the economy. People see money coming into
1:57
Speaker 2: their pockets, they get excited, they're going to spend more.
1:59
Speaker 2: It's going to help the economy. This should have a
2:01
Speaker 2: nice downstream impact. Now, on the flip side, it's not free.
2:05
Speaker 2: This costs something. This bill was criticized heavily by the opposition,
2:12
Speaker 2: mostly talking about what impact it's going to have on
2:14
Speaker 2: the deficit. So, even though this is putting more money
2:17
Speaker 2: in taxpayers pockets, it's kind of unclear as to what
2:21
Speaker 2: the actual net impacts will be and it might take
2:23
Speaker 2: several years to really understand how this increase to the
2:26
Speaker 2: deficit is going to transpire downwards.
2:29
Speaker 1: All right, now that I have you on the line,
2:30
Speaker 1: let's expand a little bit more. I know we wanted
2:33
Speaker 1: to codify the twenty seventeen tax cuts. Is that part
2:36
Speaker 1: of this as well?
2:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, a huge part of this. We had these massive
2:40
Speaker 2: tax cuts that occurred in the twenty seventeen the Tax
2:43
Speaker 2: Cuts and Jobs Act, coincidentally also passing the law by
2:46
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. And this is where you saw your standard
2:49
Speaker 2: deduction go from like six thousand dollars to twelve thousand dollars.
2:52
Speaker 2: I mean, the stand reduction has got massive. We saw
2:56
Speaker 2: huge changes in your automized deductions. This was overall a
3:01
Speaker 2: huge decrease for not just individuals, but also corporations. Corporations
3:04
Speaker 2: saw their tax rates go from thirty five percent to
3:07
Speaker 2: twenty one percent. It also had these significant changes to
3:10
Speaker 2: how we tax multinational companies providing things like the guilty
3:14
Speaker 2: and the fity and the beat taxes to help provide
3:17
Speaker 2: incentives to locate manufacturing and innovation within the United States.
3:21
Speaker 2: So that went into effect. But because it was not
3:24
Speaker 2: budget neutral, it had a sunset period. And that's where
3:28
Speaker 2: the One Big Beautiful Bill Act comes into play because
3:31
Speaker 2: this actually codified those negative impacts that were about to
3:36
Speaker 2: occur if nothing else happened. That it essentially put it
3:39
Speaker 2: into the tax law permanently by having it by taking
3:43
Speaker 2: away that sunset period and saying this is now going
3:45
Speaker 2: to be what the line is.
3:48
Speaker 1: So in a way, it's a good thing out elected
3:50
Speaker 1: because of the Democrats that wouldn't they would have let
3:52
Speaker 1: they would have let expire most likely, right potentially, Yeah,
3:56
Speaker 1: all right here in New York, I knows a lot
3:58
Speaker 1: of the Republican politicians focus on the salt and salt
4:02
Speaker 1: deductions all that. Why is it impact New Yorkers mainly?
4:04
Speaker 1: Then maybe folks in the South or anywhere else in
4:07
Speaker 1: the country.
4:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, New York, New Jersey, California, Hawaii, Rhode Island. These
4:12
Speaker 2: states are all states that have really high income taxes
4:15
Speaker 2: and property taxes. So what actually it's kind of twofold.
4:19
Speaker 2: So what happened with the tax cuts and jobs ACKed.
4:21
Speaker 2: It doubled the size of the standard reduction, so a
4:24
Speaker 2: lot more people were just taking the standard reduction. But
4:26
Speaker 2: then what also happened is they put a cap on
4:29
Speaker 2: your state of local income taxes that you could deduct.
4:31
Speaker 2: So the cap it used to be unlimited. You could
4:32
Speaker 2: deduct any state, any state local taxes, both income and property.
4:37
Speaker 2: You can deduct as much as you pay. So people
4:39
Speaker 2: in New York, California, New Jersey, they're paying these massive
4:42
Speaker 2: tax bills, not just on their income but on their property.
4:45
Speaker 2: They were deducting all that against their taxes. They were
4:47
Speaker 2: all itemizing their taxes. But we have the TCGA that
4:51
Speaker 2: comes in and says, okay, you kept it ten thousand dollars. Well,
4:55
Speaker 2: for someone like me in North Carolina, it's hard to
4:57
Speaker 2: spend ten thousand dollars on state and local taxes. But
5:01
Speaker 2: for people in New York, they could be living in
5:04
Speaker 2: a house a third of my house's size and they're
5:06
Speaker 2: paying over ten thousand dollars in property taxes, or they're
5:09
Speaker 2: making lots of money, they're paying this really high income taxery.
5:13
Speaker 2: So it was kind of this double whemmie of like, okay,
5:15
Speaker 2: now they're all just going to be taking the stand
5:17
Speaker 2: in reduction. A lot of people in these particularly Northeast
5:20
Speaker 2: and West coast states were losing a lot of tax deductions.
5:23
Speaker 2: Fast forward to the One Big Beautiful Bill Act in
5:25
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, this cap is raised to forty thousand dollars. Now,
5:30
Speaker 2: it does cap out at a certain income, so if
5:31
Speaker 2: you're making like if you're like Lebron James living in
5:34
Speaker 2: LA you're not getting a forty thousand dollars deduction you
5:36
Speaker 2: make too much money. He still gets ten thousand dollars,
5:38
Speaker 2: but just not the full forty. But for a lot
5:40
Speaker 2: of people, they're going to be able to duct forty
5:42
Speaker 2: thousand dollars, which means that they're going to be able
5:44
Speaker 2: to take a much bigger deduction than just the standard deduction.
5:48
Speaker 2: But also it's going to open up a lot more
5:50
Speaker 2: other deductions that they may not have otherwise been deducting.
5:53
Speaker 2: For example, if you're somebody that was taking the standard
5:56
Speaker 2: deduction and you have medical expenses, that's not an incrementalduction
6:00
Speaker 2: that you get to take. Well, now it is, because
6:02
Speaker 2: you're taking that you have a much bigger salt deduction.
6:04
Speaker 2: You're able to take that, and therefore you're now itomizing
6:07
Speaker 2: and getting medical expenses deductive, you're geting terrible contributions deductive,
6:11
Speaker 2: you're getting your miscellaneous itemize deduction seductive. So it really
6:15
Speaker 2: opens up a lot more deductions for taxpayers, particularly those
6:18
Speaker 2: that live in these coastal states like California and New York,
6:21
Speaker 2: New Jersey.
6:23
Speaker 1: I'm going to listen back and listen back to that
6:26
Speaker 1: because it sounds very, very complicated in a sense, but hey,
6:30
Speaker 1: it works. And of course the property taxes have become
6:32
Speaker 1: a big deal, right, so I think, what was it Florida.
6:37
Speaker 1: Some of these states either want to there's something about
6:40
Speaker 1: the property tax, especially you're in New York that they
6:43
Speaker 1: want to do more of, or say that it's not
6:45
Speaker 1: your property. I don't know, you can explain it better,
6:47
Speaker 1: but there is some conversion. Property taxes in this year
6:50
Speaker 1: alone are leaving twenty twenty five.
6:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, so some states are trying to shift away from
6:55
Speaker 2: collecting property taxes and collecting more on sales taxes. That's
6:58
Speaker 2: what like Florida's doing. Some states are trying to shift
7:02
Speaker 2: away from collecting sales taxes and collecting more and property taxes,
7:06
Speaker 2: which is kind of more of a tax on the wealthier.
7:09
Speaker 2: A good example of that is Rhode Island. They've tried
7:13
Speaker 2: to institute something called the Taylor Swift tax. Now it's
7:17
Speaker 2: not actually called the Tailor Swift tax, but it is
7:20
Speaker 2: a tax that was imposed because Taylor Swift owns the
7:24
Speaker 2: most expensive house in Rhode Island and barely spends any
7:26
Speaker 2: time there. So what they're trying to say, really it.
7:29
Speaker 1: Is about you know, personal property and why are you
7:31
Speaker 1: taxing my stuff? Basically is what the whole debate is here.
7:35
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So if you're just owning a piece of property,
7:37
Speaker 2: it's appreciing a value. You're not renting it out, you're
7:39
Speaker 2: not living in it. They're saying, well, let's raise your
7:41
Speaker 2: property taxes on that piece of property you're getting. You're
7:44
Speaker 2: kind of double dipping in both both pools at that point.
7:49
Speaker 2: So some states are trying to do that as more
7:51
Speaker 2: of a tax on the wealthy without necessarily imposing like
7:54
Speaker 2: some sort of unusual strict tax on people that are
7:58
Speaker 2: just unusually wealthy.
8:00
Speaker 1: You mentioned the billionaires and millionaires, let's talk about them
8:03
Speaker 1: for a minute. These deductions and then these tax refunds.
8:07
Speaker 1: Do they see a bump as well? Some do?
8:11
Speaker 2: It kind of depends. So there is a bigger standard
8:14
Speaker 2: reduction for elderly people that if you're over a certain age,
8:20
Speaker 2: you're going to get a bigger deduction. But yeah, for
8:23
Speaker 2: the most party, they were't They weren't affected unless they're
8:27
Speaker 2: specifically pointed out.
8:30
Speaker 1: Now, you know, NZCA was so proud that you were
8:31
Speaker 1: featured in the post. Have you been kind of them
8:33
Speaker 1: before you? Are you regular with them or was this
8:36
Speaker 1: the first time?
8:37
Speaker 2: First time with the post, I've I'm not right for Forbes,
8:41
Speaker 2: so that's where a lot of my attention comes from.
8:44
Speaker 2: So I have a radar comment Forbes that I write in,
8:47
Speaker 2: but I also have been you know, featured in you know, Blueberg,
8:52
Speaker 2: New York Times, other places like that.
8:54
Speaker 1: All Right, the other reason why I brought you on
8:55
Speaker 1: is because it is tax time and we're about to
8:57
Speaker 1: get to that point of like the rushes almost here, right,
9:00
Speaker 1: But then we're also talk about the dividends that he
9:02
Speaker 1: wants to do in the tariff dividends. I want to
9:04
Speaker 1: get to that with you because I feel like you
9:06
Speaker 1: know it better than most, So talk about the tariff
9:08
Speaker 1: part of this what we see dividends, what way what
9:10
Speaker 1: we see it in?
9:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a uh, it's a really complicated question
9:15
Speaker 2: because you know, we saw this at the height of COVID,
9:19
Speaker 2: where they were issuing these stimulus checks and you know,
9:22
Speaker 2: people will below a certain amount of income, we're getting checks,
9:25
Speaker 2: and it was all great, and we have more money
9:26
Speaker 2: in the economy and people than people were uses to
9:29
Speaker 2: survive during what was a tough time. But a lot
9:32
Speaker 2: of people forget that they were not issued by Trump.
9:35
Speaker 2: They were not issued by Biden. Even though Trump insisted
9:38
Speaker 2: his like big signature was of a check, right, those
9:41
Speaker 2: were not actually issued by the president. They were passed
9:43
Speaker 2: by Congress. So fast forward to now we have this
9:47
Speaker 2: tariff dividend. Now Trump claims that he could just issue
9:50
Speaker 2: it if he wants, and that's great. I mean, he could,
9:54
Speaker 2: he could try it. I'm sure there's some sort of
9:56
Speaker 2: legal loophole that he could figure out. But when we're
9:59
Speaker 2: talking about is this actually legal, we're really talking about
10:02
Speaker 2: congressional approval, and as we know, with what's going on
10:05
Speaker 2: with Congress these days, getting congressional approval to cross the
10:10
Speaker 2: street would be difficult. At this point. This is a.
10:13
Speaker 2: This is something that will require a lot of rounds
10:16
Speaker 2: back and forth. They're going to want a lot of
10:19
Speaker 2: a lot of input on different aspects of where this
10:23
Speaker 2: money is going to, where it's coming from, how much.
10:25
Speaker 2: They're going to want a lot more background on how
10:27
Speaker 2: much money was actually brought in, to the point that
10:29
Speaker 2: there's a lot of questions as to whether this would
10:31
Speaker 2: actually transpire now if we're you know, the number two
10:36
Speaker 2: thousand dollars has been tossed out. I've also heard a
10:38
Speaker 2: lot of conversation saying, well, maybe it's only gonna be
10:42
Speaker 2: two thousand dollars to certain people below certain income, almost
10:44
Speaker 2: like the COVID stimulus payments. But I think a lot
10:47
Speaker 2: of this is maybe a could be potentially be a
10:51
Speaker 2: political ploy to say, hey, maybe these tariffs aren't bad.
10:54
Speaker 2: You might get this check down the road, and then
10:56
Speaker 2: who knows if the check actually comes.
10:58
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of like to justify why we're terriffing
11:01
Speaker 1: even our allies. Now, you're obviously an accountant, you've been
11:05
Speaker 1: following this year economist in a way too. Were you
11:08
Speaker 1: four or against the tariffs? And did it get a
11:10
Speaker 1: little over the top. I'd feel like I got over
11:12
Speaker 1: the top at some points where you're taxing even our allies,
11:14
Speaker 1: Like I know, I just it went a little crazy,
11:17
Speaker 1: wouldn't you agree?
11:20
Speaker 2: I agree. I felt like it was. It didn't feel
11:22
Speaker 2: like there was a lot of formulation on where exactly
11:25
Speaker 2: the numbers were coming from. Sometimes they were just thrown
11:28
Speaker 2: out and then rescinded. A lot of instability, a lot
11:31
Speaker 2: of uncertainty that comes with those, and to the point
11:36
Speaker 2: that I'm not totally sure that it's a I'm not
11:39
Speaker 2: totally sure that there was a lot of rhyme or
11:41
Speaker 2: reason behind it, or if it was just kind of
11:42
Speaker 2: a gut whim. And some of those gut whims worked
11:45
Speaker 2: out great and it forced countries to the tables and
11:48
Speaker 2: we had this great discussion and we're able to figure
11:50
Speaker 2: out some of that work. Sometimes it just didn't seem
11:52
Speaker 2: to go very well, and I think we saw that
11:54
Speaker 2: with China last summer where things really escalated, and I
11:57
Speaker 2: don't think that was good for the US or China.
12:00
Speaker 2: To be honest, one of.
12:02
Speaker 1: Like one hundred and fifty percent or something like that
12:04
Speaker 1: he was gonna do well. I mean, it just got
12:06
Speaker 1: a little out there. But hey, you know, way way
12:09
Speaker 1: too I he does a lot of rhetoric too, and
12:11
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden it just balances out at
12:13
Speaker 1: some point. Now, the other thing we're dealing with, and
12:16
Speaker 1: I don't know if you deal with the interest rates
12:19
Speaker 1: and all that, but the Fed Reserve, while I have you,
12:21
Speaker 1: is gonna be a hot topic this year. What do
12:23
Speaker 1: you think is gonna happen. I feel like Scott Best
12:25
Speaker 1: is gonna run everything by the end of the sun,
12:27
Speaker 1: by the end of Powell's term.
12:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a I think it's probably gonna stay pretty
12:34
Speaker 2: steady at this point. You know that we had these
12:37
Speaker 2: we had these cuts that happened last year, and they
12:39
Speaker 2: were wonderful. I think there was a good chance for
12:41
Speaker 2: that to be the case, but I that we were
12:45
Speaker 2: expecting those cuts, but even I just was curious. I
12:47
Speaker 2: pull them up on polymarket real quick, and like the
12:49
Speaker 2: leading for all three of the meetings coming up twenty
12:52
Speaker 2: January twenty seventh, March seventeenth to April twenty eighth, the
12:54
Speaker 2: leading indicator is no change, and if anything, it might
12:57
Speaker 2: be a twenty five point basis point. But I think
13:01
Speaker 2: we're at a good point where you know, inflation has
13:03
Speaker 2: been staved off. We've been able to get better borrowing
13:06
Speaker 2: rates on our mortgages on our loans relative to what
13:10
Speaker 2: it was a couple of years ago. And I just
13:12
Speaker 2: don't think that there's quite the need to make these
13:15
Speaker 2: cuts while the economy is in a bit of a
13:17
Speaker 2: steady state. Remember, this is like a it's kind of
13:19
Speaker 2: a lever. We pull it when we need to, and
13:21
Speaker 2: if we pull it too much, then it's you know,
13:25
Speaker 2: that power isn't there when we need it. So if
13:28
Speaker 2: we have like another COVID that happens later this year,
13:30
Speaker 2: and we lowered the rates too far, then we don't
13:33
Speaker 2: necessarily have that lever to be able to help.
13:35
Speaker 1: Where we have another COVID this year, that's for sure.
13:37
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we'll hopefully hopefully we won't.
13:39
Speaker 1: But yeah, and this wallsuit against Powell, I've never heard
13:42
Speaker 1: of a Breads that want to sue the FED chair.
13:45
Speaker 1: That's a new one. And Janet Yellen wasn't as good
13:47
Speaker 1: as she wasn't good either, but you never heard her
13:50
Speaker 1: be suits. This is a very interesting point we're at
13:53
Speaker 1: with the Fed.
13:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you've seen that with a lot of posts
13:56
Speaker 2: that had been within the administration, there's been a lot
13:59
Speaker 2: of uh, a lot of back and forth. Some of
14:02
Speaker 2: it I'm sure has been constructive and helpful. Some of
14:05
Speaker 2: it is kind of a head scratching where you know,
14:07
Speaker 2: we had like an IRS commissioner for like, we had
14:10
Speaker 2: like six temporary ones until we got the permanent one,
14:13
Speaker 2: and then the permanent one got fired like seven weeks later,
14:16
Speaker 2: and you're just kind of like, what's I don't I
14:17
Speaker 2: don't really understand what's going on. So I think there's
14:21
Speaker 2: just a lot of back and forth.
14:22
Speaker 1: With these commissions don't agree with Trump always, and that's
14:24
Speaker 1: really what what the bottom line is. You know, they
14:26
Speaker 1: end up being canned. But that's that deserve another But
14:30
Speaker 1: since you mentioned the I R S, let's go there.
14:32
Speaker 1: This is the first full year under Trump two that
14:35
Speaker 1: we're seeing the IRS operating and all that. Can we
14:38
Speaker 1: expect anything different, anything better? Because it's laborious under It
14:42
Speaker 1: was laborious under under Biden the file taxes. Will it
14:46
Speaker 1: be laborious under Trump?
14:48
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, one thing that's a little bit unfortunate that
14:51
Speaker 2: was canned as part of Trump's administration was they got
14:54
Speaker 2: rid of this new direct file program, so it was
14:58
Speaker 2: rolled out during the Biden administration or taxpayers in certain
15:02
Speaker 2: states could directly file with the IRS and be able
15:07
Speaker 2: to get this be able to get kind of a
15:09
Speaker 2: little bit more essentially make the process a bit easier,
15:13
Speaker 2: particularly if you're one of those taxpayers that just doesn't
15:15
Speaker 2: have that much complicated stuff going on. So that program
15:20
Speaker 2: was rolled out to a small number of states two
15:22
Speaker 2: years ago. Last year they increased the number of states,
15:24
Speaker 2: and then this year it's gone, which is kind of
15:27
Speaker 2: unfortunate because I think it was very helpful for people,
15:30
Speaker 2: particularly those that don't necessarily That helped.
15:32
Speaker 1: The elderly too. How to they were able to file
15:35
Speaker 1: a little faster with that.
15:36
Speaker 2: Ye, yeah, totally, totally faster, easier, you get a little
15:40
Speaker 2: bit more support from the IRS. There, there's a lot
15:42
Speaker 2: of good things with it, especially for those that don't
15:44
Speaker 2: necessarily have the resources to just go and hire a
15:46
Speaker 2: CPA to do this stuff for him. This was a
15:49
Speaker 2: I think it was a nice beacon for a lot
15:50
Speaker 2: of people. So unfortunately it is probably make tax filing
15:53
Speaker 2: a little bit more difficult, particularly for those groups. But
15:57
Speaker 2: also keep in mind the one big people bill at
15:59
Speaker 2: made things a lot more complicated. So one of the
16:01
Speaker 2: big things that the TCGA did was it big taxes
16:04
Speaker 2: is very convenient because also the standard reduction doubled in size,
16:08
Speaker 2: so many fewer people atomize their deductions. So you just
16:12
Speaker 2: put in your income, you take the stear reduction, you file,
16:14
Speaker 2: you're good. There was that whole thing where it fit
16:17
Speaker 2: on a postcard, even though it didn't really fit on
16:19
Speaker 2: post card. So the TCJA actually made tax filing a
16:22
Speaker 2: lot easier. And now that we have this forty eight
16:25
Speaker 2: thousand dollars salt deduction, we have all these other potential
16:29
Speaker 2: deductions that are out there. It's only going to complicate
16:32
Speaker 2: things again. Now it doesn't mean that like we should
16:35
Speaker 2: do things just because it's going to be complicated to
16:37
Speaker 2: file their tax season, but I think that is one
16:39
Speaker 2: of those unintended consequences. Also, now people are gonna have
16:42
Speaker 2: to be tracking their contribution receipts, tracking all sorts of
16:45
Speaker 2: things they weren't doing before.
16:48
Speaker 1: Well, for me, it's always medical expenses, you know, thank god,
16:50
Speaker 1: there are many this year, but that's always a thing.
16:51
Speaker 1: You know, how do we get the refund based on
16:53
Speaker 1: that as well? That's kind of what we always look at,
16:55
Speaker 1: but that's in our household. Let's talk about the nature
16:59
Speaker 1: of taxes and I don't know if you're following the
17:01
Speaker 1: mom Donnie situation up here and how he's going to
17:03
Speaker 1: deal with taxes, and have you see him raising him
17:06
Speaker 1: through the roof like he's saying he's going to or
17:08
Speaker 1: lights expected? But whenever a Democrat takes over a city,
17:12
Speaker 1: do you find it true that they raise taxes on
17:14
Speaker 1: their citizens? Is that is that just a known fact
17:17
Speaker 1: or is that rhetoric?
17:19
Speaker 2: Yeah? I would I would say it's a guarantee that
17:21
Speaker 2: Democrats are going to raise taxes, But I do think
17:24
Speaker 2: that you do. You tend to see on average that
17:26
Speaker 2: direction they going.
17:30
Speaker 1: So have you been following the mom Donnie? Will he
17:32
Speaker 1: do the free bus fair? How is he going to
17:35
Speaker 1: pay that through the higher taxes? That's what I'm thinking,
17:37
Speaker 1: I think you.
17:38
Speaker 2: I think we saw over the weekend that the whatever
17:40
Speaker 2: the schedule increase in the affairs that was passed a
17:44
Speaker 2: few months ago actually went into effect kind of opposite
17:46
Speaker 2: of what he was promising to do. But I do
17:49
Speaker 2: think that there's a lot of big issues that we
17:51
Speaker 2: we see when we talk about raising taxes, particularly on
17:54
Speaker 2: a small jurisdiction like New York City. Now, New York
17:56
Speaker 2: City doesn't feel small because it's five boroughs. It's massive
18:00
Speaker 2: in space. But keep in mind, like when you raise
18:03
Speaker 2: taxes on just people that live in their primary residence
18:07
Speaker 2: is New York City, how easy is it to leave
18:10
Speaker 2: New York City?
18:12
Speaker 1: Right?
18:13
Speaker 2: It's very different than raising taxes on US citizens, or
18:16
Speaker 2: raising taxes on people that live in the state of Massachusetts,
18:19
Speaker 2: which is what Massachusetts did a couple of years ago.
18:21
Speaker 2: Raising taxes on just a city, it's very easy, especially
18:24
Speaker 2: if you're the one that they're raising taxes on, meaning
18:26
Speaker 2: you're like a make it two million dollars more a year.
18:30
Speaker 2: It's very easy for you to just say you don't
18:32
Speaker 2: live in New York City anymore and find loopholes around it.
18:35
Speaker 2: So I do think it's going to be I don't
18:38
Speaker 2: think he's fully thought through this issue of capital flight.
18:41
Speaker 2: I think he thinks that people are just going to
18:43
Speaker 2: stay there and pay the taxes and deal with it.
18:46
Speaker 2: But also keep in mind that we learned about this
18:48
Speaker 2: in COVID People can work a lot.
18:51
Speaker 1: Anyway, four hundred and twenty thousand people left New York
18:53
Speaker 1: and you know what he if he's may or, you
18:55
Speaker 1: should do something to bring them back, not scare it.
18:57
Speaker 1: More like millions more. You know, that's kind of what
19:00
Speaker 1: we're looking at now. And then Hochel, of course, on
19:03
Speaker 1: the state level, she says she's gonna help them out,
19:06
Speaker 1: but then she realizes she can't help that because it's
19:08
Speaker 1: gonna make her look bad too. So she's been mind
19:10
Speaker 1: right now.
19:10
Speaker 2: Well, and that's the that's the big thing. He can't
19:13
Speaker 2: raise the taxes without the support, but at the state level.
19:15
Speaker 2: So it was kind of an eye roll when he
19:17
Speaker 2: was like going through his campaign promises saying, Oh, I'm
19:19
Speaker 2: going to raise taxes on corporations and the wealthy that
19:22
Speaker 2: live in New York and and you know, I'm sending
19:24
Speaker 2: over here being like, you can't do that, Like that's
19:27
Speaker 2: great that you want to do it, but you know
19:29
Speaker 2: whether or not he can, you know, ladder and do
19:31
Speaker 2: it as a whole different story. And Hockel's come out
19:33
Speaker 2: many times and said, look, I'm not going to raise taxes,
19:36
Speaker 2: kind of to exactly your point, saying like I just
19:39
Speaker 2: can't miss I can't do that. It's not good for
19:41
Speaker 2: me either. But then you see people like Ken Griffin,
19:44
Speaker 2: the founder and CEO of Citadel, come out and open
19:47
Speaker 2: up a Miami office. Well, what happens to two hundred
19:50
Speaker 2: investment bankers that are all making you know, hundreds of
19:54
Speaker 2: thousands dollars a year. They could easily just go work
19:56
Speaker 2: in Miami, right. So I think that's where you have
19:58
Speaker 2: the problem that people aren't just gonna want to stay
20:01
Speaker 2: in New York. There's a lot of other options out
20:03
Speaker 2: There's a lot of other great places to be besides
20:05
Speaker 2: New York City, And our jobs have shown us that
20:07
Speaker 2: we could work in a lot of different places. If
20:10
Speaker 2: this is something like, this could be that straw that
20:12
Speaker 2: breaks the Campel's back, And I'm putting aside everything that,
20:14
Speaker 2: you know, all of the other stances on everything else,
20:16
Speaker 2: I'm talking about just taxes. If we're talking about just taxes.
20:19
Speaker 1: While we're on the taxes, by the way, do these
20:21
Speaker 1: idiots know what they're saying when they tax? When they
20:23
Speaker 1: say tax the rich, I mean like those as are
20:26
Speaker 1: just go in line with the herd and just keep
20:28
Speaker 1: saying it over and over. I feel like the plan
20:31
Speaker 1: is just tax the rich, it's tax middle class. Like
20:33
Speaker 1: they're going to be hurt too at the end, aren't they.
20:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's definitely a way to increase taxes effectively, not
20:41
Speaker 2: just targeting the ultra wealthy, not just targeting certain groups,
20:45
Speaker 2: because I think what we see is, and we've seen
20:47
Speaker 2: this throughout a lot of academic literature, is that once
20:51
Speaker 2: taxes are raised, and these are you know, hundreds of
20:53
Speaker 2: thousands of observations that we're looking at, once taxes are raised,
20:56
Speaker 2: people will move, or once taxes are lower, people will move.
21:01
Speaker 2: People understand what they're paying taxes on, they understand how
21:05
Speaker 2: much it's gonna affect him, and once that dollarmount reaches
21:07
Speaker 2: some sort of threshold, they're going to say, this isn't
21:09
Speaker 2: worth it for me to be hearing.
21:12
Speaker 1: Now. Obviously he is a socialist, and he's self acclaimed
21:16
Speaker 1: that should that scare us as far as the taxing
21:20
Speaker 1: or is that just bite worse than his bark right now?
21:24
Speaker 2: No, because he you know, there's things that he's going
21:26
Speaker 2: to be If he can do everything that he's promising
21:30
Speaker 2: effectively and keep people in New York City, it's gonna
21:32
Speaker 2: be wonderful. And I will applaud I'll be the first
21:35
Speaker 2: one to say great job, because that would be quite
21:38
Speaker 2: the achievement. But I think what we've already seen with
21:40
Speaker 2: the bus fairs going up on day three of history
21:43
Speaker 2: of his time, that it's really hard to do the
21:45
Speaker 2: things that he wants to do. I applaud him for
21:48
Speaker 2: having these really unique ways of trying to tackle things,
21:51
Speaker 2: but I think we've kind of seen in general throughout
21:54
Speaker 2: history that socialism isn't necessarily a It's not necessarily something
21:59
Speaker 2: that pans out intensively lead to live corruption, which is
22:02
Speaker 2: probably the biggest issue you're going to have to tackle
22:04
Speaker 2: if you I.
22:05
Speaker 1: Mean, the supermarkets that can never I don't feel like
22:07
Speaker 1: you can pull that off in New York, a government
22:08
Speaker 1: run supermarket sounds insane to me, but.
22:11
Speaker 2: Right right, well, and you know, we think like, oh,
22:13
Speaker 2: that'd be wonderful you get free food. Well what if,
22:15
Speaker 2: like I mean, I think about, like I go to
22:17
Speaker 2: Trader Joe's and they have all this like you know,
22:19
Speaker 2: full stockpile of meat everywhere. What if all they have
22:21
Speaker 2: is ground turkey in the in the in the meat section, right, Like,
22:26
Speaker 2: that's kind of the idea of like socialism. It's not
22:28
Speaker 2: necessarily going to be like, oh, I could just go
22:30
Speaker 2: back there and grab some New York strips. Those won't
22:32
Speaker 2: really exist anymore in grocery stores if they're all government run,
22:35
Speaker 2: free groceries things like that. So I think that's where
22:38
Speaker 2: we kind of get to this point where we need
22:39
Speaker 2: to be careful in what we're asking for here. And
22:43
Speaker 2: if you talk to like I have some faculty colleagues
22:46
Speaker 2: that grow up in Eastern European countries under communist regimes,
22:49
Speaker 2: and they're just like losing their minds that people in
22:52
Speaker 2: New York want to go to more of a socialist
22:55
Speaker 2: environment because it's not very good when it's socialists either.
23:00
Speaker 2: You know.
23:00
Speaker 1: The other thing about this that I find so interesting
23:02
Speaker 1: is how this party comes into power right to the
23:06
Speaker 1: essay and all that through Umdani and other are places
23:09
Speaker 1: across the country. But anyway, in a year where we're
23:11
Speaker 1: honoring the fact we broke away from the British and
23:14
Speaker 1: their taxes, it's like it just the irony of ironies
23:16
Speaker 1: that two fifty is about breaking away from taxation without representation,
23:20
Speaker 1: and yet we're being told to deal with it at
23:24
Speaker 1: this point and that's not what the founding fothers wanted
23:25
Speaker 1: twohndred fifty years ago. Yeah.
23:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it is gonna be tough because I
23:30
Speaker 2: think there is a lot of tax issues that are
23:32
Speaker 2: coming up this last year this year with kind of
23:34
Speaker 2: this push in New York City, Minnesota almost elected a
23:37
Speaker 2: socialist mayor as well, or Minneapolis almost elected a socialist
23:40
Speaker 2: mayor as well. There's a lot of issues that already
23:43
Speaker 2: be popping up with this kind of mixture of crowds
23:45
Speaker 2: that's being developed when we have very strong opinions on
23:49
Speaker 2: like polarized sides. And I don't know if there's a
23:53
Speaker 2: simple solution to it, but I do think that, you know,
23:55
Speaker 2: as long as we could start moving to more of
23:57
Speaker 2: a middle ground, I think we're going to start to
23:59
Speaker 2: see some rolep band that spent on these issues.
24:01
Speaker 1: You mean, central centrism is a thing still. I feel
24:04
Speaker 1: like you can be a centrist nowadays. It's kind of
24:06
Speaker 1: a foreign concept right now.
24:10
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not too good on the political economy stuff,
24:13
Speaker 2: but I think you're probably right.
24:16
Speaker 1: All right, So, Nathan, this has been great now, tax filing.
24:20
Speaker 1: When you're in classes with your students, what do you
24:22
Speaker 1: teach them the most? What what do people get out
24:25
Speaker 1: of your classes? Is about taxes? Is it about accounting?
24:28
Speaker 1: What exactly is your wheelhouse? In North Carolina, NC State?
24:32
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I teach in our Jenkins Master's of the
24:34
Speaker 2: accounting program. So they've already had one tax coast. They've
24:37
Speaker 2: kind of got those intermediate topics taken care of. Then
24:41
Speaker 2: I kind of come in with these more advanced topics.
24:43
Speaker 2: So I talk about corporate taxation, how corporations are dealing
24:46
Speaker 2: with the tax code, shift over to flow through any
24:49
Speaker 2: so we talked about partnerships, LLCs, s, corps, all these
24:52
Speaker 2: kind of fun nuanced topics or fun nuanced entities. But
24:57
Speaker 2: then I conclude by doing a whole module on topics
25:00
Speaker 2: and taxation. So this is where we diggle actually a
25:02
Speaker 2: lot into the Forbes articles I write, which is kind
25:04
Speaker 2: of nice that I write those, and I said link
25:07
Speaker 2: to those, but they Yeah, that's where we talk about
25:09
Speaker 2: what's going on in the tax world and how do
25:11
Speaker 2: we tackle this. So this year we talked about taxation
25:14
Speaker 2: and I we talked about taxation and gambling earnings. We
25:17
Speaker 2: talked about how ESG.
25:19
Speaker 1: Is taxation on tips. That's another big headline station.
25:22
Speaker 2: On tips exactly. Yeah, So we talked, we tackled these
25:25
Speaker 2: kind of more current topics, things that may not show
25:27
Speaker 2: up on a CP exam, but they're very current, they're
25:29
Speaker 2: very important to what's going on in tax world. Like
25:33
Speaker 2: literally today, not three years from now when it finally
25:35
Speaker 2: shows up on the CPA exam.
25:37
Speaker 1: My dad was an accountant for his whole life, and
25:39
Speaker 1: so I started grew up in that world. In every
25:41
Speaker 1: April fifteenth, he and I would go to the post
25:44
Speaker 1: office and mail out the tax returns for our client.
25:46
Speaker 1: So it was it was a bit of a tradition
25:48
Speaker 1: we had on and interesting enough, we passed away on
25:50
Speaker 1: tax Day and I'm like, that's the accountant's way to go.
25:52
Speaker 1: We're gonna go on today, go on tax to April fifteenth.
25:55
Speaker 2: But I'm sorry, I'm sorry you lost them. But that
25:58
Speaker 2: is that is quite the day.
26:00
Speaker 1: It was almost fitting to me because he loved he
26:02
Speaker 1: loved doing accounting and he taught me a lot. And
26:05
Speaker 1: of course I'm in the digital age, so I was
26:07
Speaker 1: doing quick books and all that fun stuff. And I'm
26:09
Speaker 1: sure you know more in depth, because when I was
26:11
Speaker 1: in class with it, it was like, oh my god,
26:13
Speaker 1: adse equs liabilities plus owner tequity and like, what is that?
26:17
Speaker 1: I didn't know this. I did quick books, you know,
26:19
Speaker 1: But I have to ask you about this too. You
26:22
Speaker 1: talk about text all the current events as well, and
26:27
Speaker 1: the tax on tips is a bottom is a hard
26:29
Speaker 1: line here because there was a thing on whether katy
26:34
Speaker 1: Oga was going to say no to that or yes
26:36
Speaker 1: that I guess she caved in again against Trump. But
26:39
Speaker 1: like taxation on tips, people would be appreciative if they
26:42
Speaker 1: don't have to get their tips tacked right taxed.
26:45
Speaker 2: Well, keep in mind it's a partial no tax on
26:48
Speaker 2: tips like partial tax on tips because it's the first
26:51
Speaker 2: twenty five thousand that gets accepted. So if you're cutting hair,
26:56
Speaker 2: you make you know if you said nive hundreds that
26:59
Speaker 2: whatever it is, the first twenty five thousand dollars of
27:02
Speaker 2: tips will be exempt from income tax. So if you
27:05
Speaker 2: kind of factor in the senior production for a single
27:07
Speaker 2: person fifteen thousand, seven fifty of last year, so that
27:10
Speaker 2: means you could make up to forty thousand dollars without
27:13
Speaker 2: without paying taxes for that for people in that profession,
27:19
Speaker 2: which is great because these can be lower income individuals,
27:23
Speaker 2: so it's helpful for them to not be subject to
27:25
Speaker 2: the tax. Now, where this is interesting is that a
27:28
Speaker 2: lot of people previously weren't reporting their tips. So in
27:30
Speaker 2: order to take advantage of this, you really need to
27:32
Speaker 2: start reporting all your income according it. So in some ways.
27:36
Speaker 2: This was a little bit of a ploy to get
27:37
Speaker 2: people that probably weren't reporting all their income to start
27:41
Speaker 2: reporting it and to start becoming more tax compliant. And
27:44
Speaker 2: notice it's only a four year provision, so this will
27:48
Speaker 2: expire at the end of twenty twenty eight.
27:49
Speaker 1: So I get like a bonus from someone at Christmas,
27:52
Speaker 1: I have to report it now and it won't be taxed.
27:55
Speaker 1: Or how does that work?
27:56
Speaker 2: Well, you have to It's only for people in certain professions.
27:59
Speaker 2: So like me, as a professor, I don't qualify, so
28:02
Speaker 2: I keep my Dean. Can't just say, oh, Nathan's twenty
28:05
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars of his you know, we're going to
28:07
Speaker 2: call it a tip from the students or something. It
28:09
Speaker 2: doesn't work like that. It has to be you know,
28:11
Speaker 2: a server, hairdresser, you know, people that are on the
28:16
Speaker 2: specific list. And it is somewhat narrow, so it's not
28:19
Speaker 2: going to be just anybody but the But yeah, now,
28:22
Speaker 2: like previously, like I'm you know, I know from the
28:26
Speaker 2: restaurant industry, if they get cash, they don't necessarily report that.
28:29
Speaker 2: Now they're being incentivized to report that because they could
28:31
Speaker 2: go ahead and exclude that from their income. So that
28:33
Speaker 2: way in twenty twenty nine, if all of a sudden
28:35
Speaker 2: they went from having, you know, one hundred thousand dollars
28:37
Speaker 2: of income to fifty thousand dollars of income, but they
28:40
Speaker 2: still worked at the same company. They didn't change anything
28:42
Speaker 2: else that could be a little bit of a red
28:43
Speaker 2: flag to help target them for underreporting their their income.
28:48
Speaker 1: All right, tax brackets, So I remember Trump one, there
28:51
Speaker 1: was a whole debate on whether it's going to fix
28:53
Speaker 1: the flat make it a flat tax and all that,
28:55
Speaker 1: And personally, I've always thought, maybe you could disagree with
28:57
Speaker 1: me here the tax brackets should have been if you're
29:00
Speaker 1: at certain point, middle class would be a fifteen percent,
29:02
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about that, but higher income twenty percent.
29:05
Speaker 1: Why can't we have different tax brackets? And people are like, well,
29:09
Speaker 1: what do you mean we've got to have the flat tax?
29:10
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I think the fairness here would
29:13
Speaker 1: be different brackets it And where do we stand on
29:16
Speaker 1: that right now in twenty twenty six.
29:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the the current tax brackets for twenty twenty
29:23
Speaker 2: six we currently have and count these up, bro Quay,
29:27
Speaker 2: I want to do three, four, five, six. We have
29:29
Speaker 2: seven different tax brackets right now, So that's been pretty
29:31
Speaker 2: consistent over the years. It starts out at ten thousand
29:34
Speaker 2: or ten percent for all income under twelve four hundred
29:37
Speaker 2: dollars all the way up to thirty seven percent for
29:39
Speaker 2: any income over six hundred and forty thousand, six hundred
29:44
Speaker 2: and one dollars. So that's and that's for using or
29:46
Speaker 2: for a single filer, so they're obviously a little bit
29:49
Speaker 2: higher I for your married filer. Things like that. We
29:52
Speaker 2: do it is progressive. So your first twelve dollars to
29:56
Speaker 2: get stashed a ten percent, then your next like thirty
29:58
Speaker 2: eight thousand dollars of income gets taxed at twelve percent,
30:01
Speaker 2: Then your next fifty five thousand dollars gets taxed to
30:04
Speaker 2: twenty two percent, all the way up the orne. So
30:06
Speaker 2: that way, you know, if you are in that top
30:08
Speaker 2: tax bracket, the next dollar of income that you have,
30:10
Speaker 2: that marginal tax rate is going to be thirty seven percent.
30:13
Speaker 2: But until you hit that point, you're not going to
30:15
Speaker 2: be at thirty seven percent.
30:16
Speaker 1: And so when they say tax the rich, aren't we
30:18
Speaker 1: doing that already? Or what's their point is to do
30:20
Speaker 1: it even more like uldtra Like, what what's the point here?
30:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be to, you know, instead of thirty
30:25
Speaker 2: seven percent, make it forty seven percent, make it fifty seven.
30:28
Speaker 1: Just completely take them out of business. Meanwhile, I think
30:30
Speaker 1: billionaires help fund the country as much as the small
30:33
Speaker 1: small businesses do, you know. And by the way, people
30:36
Speaker 1: may not know that small business contribute to ninety nine
30:38
Speaker 1: percent of like the economy, if I'm not mistaken, right, Nathan.
30:42
Speaker 2: It's a significant partner.
30:44
Speaker 1: So and that's why I say shop small business every day,
30:47
Speaker 1: not just small business Saturday.
30:48
Speaker 2: So now there is one item related to tax the
30:52
Speaker 2: rich that could be kind of interesting to discuss. It's
30:54
Speaker 2: this idea of like the ultra wealthy don't necessarily make money.
31:00
Speaker 2: So you think about Elon Musk. He's not like getting
31:02
Speaker 2: a paycheck from Tasla every other week. It's not like
31:05
Speaker 2: his taxable income is like, you know, one hundred or
31:09
Speaker 2: ten billion dollars a year or something like that. In fact,
31:11
Speaker 2: tax is wealth. The reason why he's the richest person
31:14
Speaker 2: in the world is mostly because of the holdings that
31:16
Speaker 2: has in his stock, which is unrealized income each year.
31:20
Speaker 2: So we only tax income, we don't tax wealth. In
31:23
Speaker 2: the United States, taxing wealth is actually a very dangerous thing.
31:25
Speaker 2: To get into because all of a sudden it incentivizes
31:28
Speaker 2: those ultra wealthy to leave the country to go somewhere
31:31
Speaker 2: else where they won't have their wealth tax. But the
31:35
Speaker 2: I think some of the issues that come up is
31:37
Speaker 2: that there's a there's a scheme that's been developed over
31:39
Speaker 2: time called by borrow die, which is you buy company,
31:44
Speaker 2: you invest in that company, you grow the company, then
31:47
Speaker 2: you borrow against that company. So what happens is this
31:49
Speaker 2: company has become more and more valuable each and every
31:52
Speaker 2: year you invest in that company, you borrow against it,
31:55
Speaker 2: so you get your cash flows. Like people like I
31:58
Speaker 2: don't know if it's definitely, you know mus Bus, there's
32:00
Speaker 2: him as again, people like Elon Musk is going to
32:02
Speaker 2: borrow against his holdings in Tesla and SpaceX, and he
32:06
Speaker 2: gets that money is actually able to deduct the injurius payments.
32:09
Speaker 2: It's very tax advantage. And then once he passes away,
32:12
Speaker 2: if and when he passes away, all of his holdings
32:16
Speaker 2: get stepped up to the current value, meaning that whoever
32:20
Speaker 2: receives all the shares in Tesla doesn't have to pay
32:23
Speaker 2: taxes on the value of Tesla the moment he acquired
32:28
Speaker 2: it to what it is now, so if he sold
32:30
Speaker 2: it that day, there'd be this massive capital gate sax.
32:32
Speaker 2: But because because of increase in value, once you pass away,
32:38
Speaker 2: the value gets stepped up in basis and there's no
32:40
Speaker 2: capo gate sax al sudden, and he was able to
32:43
Speaker 2: borrow against that money over time because he was able
32:47
Speaker 2: to because this company's work so much, so it creates
32:49
Speaker 2: this kind of this loophole where ultra wealthy, he'd get
32:52
Speaker 2: away without paying the taxes. They don't have to sell
32:54
Speaker 2: their shares in order to use the cash flows that
32:56
Speaker 2: they have. There's certain loopholes that can be closed like that.
32:59
Speaker 2: They could remove that step up and basis that occurs
33:04
Speaker 2: p death. They could do lots of things to address
33:06
Speaker 2: the loophole. But I don't think raising the tax rates
33:10
Speaker 2: are necessarily the right path. It's kind of like they
33:12
Speaker 2: need to find a good way to address the loopholes
33:14
Speaker 2: as opposed to just raising tax rates without thinking about
33:17
Speaker 2: what effect that would have.
33:18
Speaker 1: All right, So one last topic, and by the way,
33:21
Speaker 1: Musk's wealth just increased because a judge actually sided with
33:25
Speaker 1: him in a certain case and now he's got hundred
33:27
Speaker 1: and twenty nine billion dollars worth, not just unbelievable. But anyway,
33:30
Speaker 1: pet I digress. Do you analyze You said you don't
33:35
Speaker 1: do political much, but do you analyze when tax changes
33:38
Speaker 1: are happening on Capitol?
33:39
Speaker 2: I dont like.
33:39
Speaker 1: Is that part of your curriculum.
33:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll take a look at what's going on with
33:44
Speaker 2: the tax law change. I trying to keep politics out
33:46
Speaker 2: of the classroom because I really want to be about
33:48
Speaker 2: the accounting keys and how they should be deal with
33:51
Speaker 2: the rules. But of course that kind of naturally comes
33:53
Speaker 2: into place.
33:56
Speaker 1: And then one last thing, because I did take grounding
33:58
Speaker 1: a little bit and unfortunately not farewell, but that's fine.
34:04
Speaker 1: What brings people into your class, Like, what may motivates
34:06
Speaker 1: people be an accountant to do taxes? Like it's a
34:09
Speaker 1: very tedious profession if you think about it, because you're
34:12
Speaker 1: doing number of country all the time. But what brings
34:13
Speaker 1: people to your classes to be an accountant?
34:16
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think you know, accounting, which is a really
34:17
Speaker 2: great field. At this point, we have a huge demand
34:20
Speaker 2: for our graduates. We've had one hundred percent placement for
34:23
Speaker 2: the graduates here in NC State for five years running,
34:26
Speaker 2: and even before that it was like ninety five percent
34:28
Speaker 2: and above. So our students are at high demand. The
34:32
Speaker 2: jobs they get to do are really need. It's not
34:33
Speaker 2: like Kevin Oscar and Angel in the office where they're
34:36
Speaker 2: just sitting in a little cubicle crunching numbers. They are
34:39
Speaker 2: really doing consulting work when they go out there. So
34:42
Speaker 2: you know, if we think about the consultants at McKenzie
34:44
Speaker 2: and Deloitte and all these places, that's great. They don't
34:47
Speaker 2: necessarily do the broad consulting, but they do tax consulting.
34:50
Speaker 2: They do work with clients to help find strategic solutions
34:55
Speaker 2: to interesting problems that they might be encountering. So our
34:58
Speaker 2: students are really getting this neat opportunity to get into
35:02
Speaker 2: a very neat field where they get to help clients
35:04
Speaker 2: find good solutions. But it goes beyond that we have
35:08
Speaker 2: in our Master's of Accounting program. My class is something
35:10
Speaker 2: that ever assume takes, so I have a lot of
35:11
Speaker 2: students that are going into audit and going into risk
35:13
Speaker 2: and advisory. So those students get a huge benefit by
35:17
Speaker 2: being able to learn a lot of material that's on
35:18
Speaker 2: the uniform CPA exam administered by ASCPA. So that's an
35:22
Speaker 2: exam you have to pass in order to become a CPA.
35:25
Speaker 2: So by a class, it doesn't necessarily teach to the
35:28
Speaker 2: CPA exam, but something I definitely consider make sure that
35:31
Speaker 2: the students are getting all the right materials, but above
35:33
Speaker 2: all else And this is what I always like to
35:35
Speaker 2: emphasize with that last portion of what I do in
35:37
Speaker 2: my class, that current topics portion is I really want
35:40
Speaker 2: to make sure students that graduate from my class can
35:43
Speaker 2: go out into the world and really get this great
35:45
Speaker 2: understanding of how taxes impact not just individuals and corporations,
35:49
Speaker 2: but society as a whole. And I think that's where
35:52
Speaker 2: they get a lot of understanding of that within that
35:54
Speaker 2: kind of final module where we talk about you know,
35:57
Speaker 2: things like ESG we talk about things like AI, We
35:59
Speaker 2: talked about things like nil and sports betting and the
36:03
Speaker 2: whole spectrum of what's going on in taxes in our society.
36:07
Speaker 1: Well, one last thing about success rates though n C
36:09
Speaker 1: State we all have the Big four up here, right that,
36:12
Speaker 1: the big tax the big agencies. You find that NC
36:14
Speaker 1: State is a pipeline to those Big four. Up a
36:17
Speaker 1: year in New York you find success like that.
36:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we have students that go all over the place. A.
36:22
Speaker 2: Raley's the most popular city Charlotte shortly after that. But
36:25
Speaker 2: we every year we have several students that go to
36:27
Speaker 2: New York and a lot of times like it's not
36:30
Speaker 2: that they can't go to New York, it's that they
36:33
Speaker 2: want to stay close home to coast to home in
36:35
Speaker 2: North Carolina. But we always love when we send students
36:38
Speaker 2: up there. I've got students that were for KPMG, eu Y, Deloitte, PwC,
36:43
Speaker 2: all the forests, all the really big players in the
36:46
Speaker 2: accounting firms and within New York and North Carolina over
36:49
Speaker 2: the place.
36:50
Speaker 1: Well, I have a couple. I have one firm that
36:52
Speaker 1: my dad worked at. Maybe I'll connect you guys and
36:54
Speaker 1: do an internship program. That'd be kind of cool. I
36:56
Speaker 1: know it's a little place in Brooklyn, but you never know,
36:58
Speaker 1: it could mean something to somebody. Yeah, we'll be in
37:01
Speaker 1: touch about that. Nathan Goldman, thanks so much bringing the
37:03
Speaker 1: papers to life with me on the one lagup alex
37:05
Speaker 1: Network today as we get ready for taxis and it's
37:08
Speaker 1: here awesome.
37:10
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me.
37:11
Speaker 1: God bless you and enjoy twenty twenty six. Happy New Year.