Latest / Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash / #109 Victoria Devine On Miscarriage, Birth Rules & Family Finance

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#109 Victoria Devine On Miscarriage, Birth Rules & Family Finance · Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ashton, the Lovely, the Gorgeous Victoria Devine. She is best
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: known as the host of the wildly successful podcast She's
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: on the Money, which we actually filled in on a
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: number of months ago.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, that was the episode I got flack for not
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: throwing my kid's birthday parties.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Yes correct.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: She's also the founder of Zella Money, a mortgage broking business,
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: and the author of several books Matthew, that's right, I
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: said several, which includes her most recent cover Business Bible.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: But most importantly, she is the mom of eight month
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: old Harvey.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, Victoria shares her experience of what led up to
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: her pregnancy with a little boy that includes two miscarriages
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: along the way.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She gives us a glimpse into what it must
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: feel like for the wonderful woman who have to go
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: through child loss.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: She also shares a list of requirements given to her
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: visitors wanting to meet her newborn in hospital.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming which should ruffle one or two feathers out there, ash.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: As a finance expert, Victoria also shares her thoughts on
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: two big parenting money questions.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Shall we get into a big boy apps?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Absolutely?
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to two doting dads and one doting mum.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I am Maddie, J I'm Ash and I am Victoria.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: the good, it is.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: The bad and the relatable.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: And we always say no advice. However, Victoria, if there's
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: anyone who is ever going to give any type of
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: advice on this podcast, I.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: Believe it would be you probably thank you, but like
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: more financial advice.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Everything we're hoping for, first and foremost advice is stickl.
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: You guys are brave.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Mainly because sometimes every now and then we'll talk about
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: something that's medical and we always just say, look, we're
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: not the experts. We'll get the diagnosis, the name, everything
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: completely wrong.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: So just if anyone is it's with a grain of
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: salt and pretend that we're at the pub having a chat.
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: Take it like that.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: One time we did, like we were trying to figure out
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: how to do a pregnancy test, and I was like,
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: don't you.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Just do it?
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Well, we weren't sure if it was like different sorts
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: of ways. We thought it might be like a tea
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: bag scenario in the toilet bowl once you pee the
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: to anyways, it all and all a Victoria we would
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: like to know. Yes, Ash and I were talking about
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: what a younger Victoria would have been like, and we
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I think we both agreed that you would have been
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: someone who I think would have been school captain.
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, I didn't get done.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Let's go back and get it.
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: I didn't. I didn't, but you won't be surprised to
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: you that my boyfriend at the time did. It was
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: a thing. I was so envious, you're dump. Yeah, I
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: mean at some point I did. At some point I did.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: But yeah, younger Victoria, she do you know what, She's
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: exactly what you thought she was. Wow, she's exactly like
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: she was debating team captain. I did athletics, Like, what's
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: my athletics? Oh what, it's obviously like the Rockers Dedford
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: for maths.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I thought it would be like and then someone's like
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: six and you just give it.
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: I would die under that.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: That's what it was.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: No, she's she's exactly what you thought she would be.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: You're someone to me who just exudes confidence.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: That's very kind because it's not true. It's not true.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: It is it's the athletics.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: It's the athletics. It's the fake it till you make
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: it vibe an anxious.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: I don't believe you at all.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: You say that, but like my anti anxiety medication.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Mix it with a coffee and it's did you trip
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: up at all?
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Did you get any into any trouble?
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: Surely you know what, I was a goody two shoes, honestly,
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: Like I like my parents always like you were a
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: goody two shoes. Your sister, on the other hand, like
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: she made for it. I mean, I won't go on
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: and on because I don't know how much she would
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: like that. But we had to call the police. My dad,
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: my own dad called the police to my own sister's
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: sixteenth birthday. Wow, because why they were teenagers jumping over
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: the back fence project X sort of yeah, like just
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: very very interesting. My my sister had said to my parents, Oh,
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: it's my sixteenth birthday, can we just have like a
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: barbecue at home? And Dad, you like do a barbecue?
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: And my dad was like, awesome, great, Like you're going
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: to invite some friends and Alix. Yeah, Mom's like, do
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: you want to send her invites? ALEX just like nah,
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: like send out in mites and then word of mouth,
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: people like the cops came and scored a lot of
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: people out of the house. My parents had to replace
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: the carvet in the front room.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Like, holy shit, were you at home at the time.
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was great party, making me look so good, Alex.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Did you know then from an early age what you
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: wanted to be when you grew up?
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: No, No, I thought when I feel like I put
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: a lot of pressure on myself because I am very academic,
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: Like I love a study and that's not something that
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: lots of people can resonate with, Like I just love learning.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: I also have ADHD. I have been diagnosed since I
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: was like eighteen. I think I got diagnosed in Medicare then, yeah,
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: and I.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Used to go.
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: I used to be so embarrassed of it, like I
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: would lie through my teeth, Like I used to take
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: my medication, pop it out of all of the medication
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: things and put it in a panet dole container in
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: my handbag because I was so scared that someone would
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: see that I was taking dexampetter meane and be like,
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: she's crazy, She's crazy.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: How does it feel now that all these diagnoses come out?
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: So I believed because you know, as somebody with ADHD,
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: you like see it in other people and you're like
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: you're a bit the same. Hey, like you kind of
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: look at someone and go I see a lot of
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: me and you I get it.
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: And then they go I've got ADHD and I'm like, whoa,
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: I'm so surprised.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I started so then I was like, this is just
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: gonna take too long.
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: Unless you're really struggling, like the diagnosis process nowadays really arduous.
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: So anyway, loved studying and I thought I wanted to
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: be a doctor, and then decided that's probably not for me.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: Wanted to do psychology.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: How was it not for you?
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: Do think the part where like blood and.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: That's why I'm not a doctor.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: It's like a mechanic.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: And then I went to psychology, did psychology, got into
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: like a child psychology like internship and this was in
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: the last year of my degree before honest, and I
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: thought this is gonna be great, like I have done it,
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: and I was so proud of myself because that was
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: like one of the hardest internships to secure. I love
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: a flag. Oh got the best one, thank you mum. Anyway,
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: got that and I hated it. After two weeks, I
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: was like crying, I hate it, Like the idea that
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: you can't pick up kids and take them home and
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: take them out of their situation. I was like, hold on,
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: you're telling me that psychology is about helping people deal
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: with their situations, not fixing it. Like I'm a fixer,
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: Like I'm that person that you come to for advice.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: And I'll like, all right, whether you want this or not,
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: this is what you need to do. And then I'm
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: not offended if you don't do it. I get it,
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: but I'm always going to go into solution mode. So
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: didn't like that. Had a midlife crisis during university and
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: was like, where's my career going? And realized through some
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: careers counseling at UNI that there was this thing called
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: organizational psychology, which is the science of people at work.
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: So you could do psychology but for like CEOs and
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: leaders and help them develop into better leaders and manage
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: people properly. And I thought kind of like a life
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: coach kind of, but like you actually have a degree.
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: Yes you don't just put it in your bio.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going to put it in my bio.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: Please do it's working anyway, did that for a while
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: and started to learn about finance, got myself into a
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: whole heap of debt and needed to work that out,
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: and realized that there was a lot of power in
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: studies of Oh I wish I could be like, oh, yeah,
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: of course, it was like student debt. No, I bought
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: a car and then I went to France, and then
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: I went all around Europe and then I had a
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: really good wardrobe, so many nice shoes.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little aout experience too, though.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: Oh live love laugh, But I want a credit card.
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: Oh no, go hard, I got a person alone. Yeah.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: So my dad's an accountant, and I hid that from him.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Obviously he would have seen the signs though.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there was signed to get this car from a
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: found come here in France, and this car is still here,
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: and you've got a brand new wardrobe full of shoes.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know.
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: I came home from France with forty thousand dollars worth
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: of personal debt and realize.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: You're like Will and you assist did have another birthday party.
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: I was like, I probably should do something about it,
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: but for a long time buried my head in the sand.
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: I hated the idea of it. It was really embarrassed
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: of it, Like you don't want to tell your mates.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: And at the time, I felt a lot of pressure
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: because I had gone into a very corporate role, so
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: done an organizational psyche it on as you went into
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: this like consultant role, it wasn't a grad role. And
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: I was like in with all these like big dog
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: forty year olds who had power suits and like were
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: looking really good, and I'm like, they've got their lives together,
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: Like I'm going to have my life together. And in
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: my head, it was age that gave you life experience.
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: It was aged that helped you get your finances sorted,
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: not the suit. No, it turns out no. But I
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: was just like, oh, like i can do whatever I
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: want because one day I'm going to be forty in
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: have a house and get all of those things because
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: it just happens, right.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: That's very true.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: You've just triggered something there for me where it's like
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: I remember thinking, like when I was younger, that you're like, yeah,
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: i'll have it sorted when i'm older.
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll sort it when i'm older.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: I'll do it when i'm older.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: And it turns out none of these people had shit together.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: And I was like learning more about you know them
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: and their personal lives, and like, as a consultant, you
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: travel a lot, so we're like in lots of hotels
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: and going out for like dinners and stuff, and they'd
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: be talking about their divorces. They'd be talking about, you know,
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: not being able to buy houses. And I remember being like, oh,
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: I thought that when you got to forty five, it
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: was like a rite of passage. You owned a property,
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: you work for one of the Big four. What are
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: you talking about? Like it just the math wasn't mathing
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: in my head, and I realized I probably should sort
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: my own finances out instead of just paying the minimum
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: repayment on my personal loan. So started to look into
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: that and just found a passion because I realized the
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: power that taking control of your finances could have. It
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: was making me feel better, it made the people around
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: me feel better. I was like going to brunch with
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: my girlfriends being like, okay, so if you looked at
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: your super because like, oh, I don't know if you
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: know this, but if you don't take control of this now,
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: it's going to cost you like seventy thousand dollars worth
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: of fees over the long term. And like my friend's like, no,
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: I didn't.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Know my account.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: She will like, just drink the bloody Mary.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: So yeah, ended up loving finance and kind of one
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: thing led to another and I realized maybe that's where
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: I should be and sectioned on in I do have.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: To congratulate you for what you've built. I'm going to
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: call it an empire.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: Thank you. It doesn't feel like an empire. It feels
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: like a ship show.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: But if you were just.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Talking about some of your staff and I'm like, it's
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: it's very impressively.
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: And do you know what the one stuff you've got
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: I wanted.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Her first, I say, you think about it.
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: I like you guys, so you could keep.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Her perfect during this time when you are building your business.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: What was your thought process in regards to having kids.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: I when I was really young, I'm very maternal, Like,
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: I love kids. If you've got babies, please show me
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: your pictures. Like I was always maternal, but I just
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: wanted to look to your pretty sta.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: His oldest child. Hello.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: No, I just I wanted kids. I just didn't know
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: how that was going to happen. And that was one
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: of the things that was starting to stress me out.
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: So at the same time as being in personal debt.
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: I just come out of a really long term relationship
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: because I was in a relationship from when I was
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: fourteen to twenty two.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: With the guy who got ducks, Like yeah, I.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Mean so lovely, which is so annoying. Isn't that annoying
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: when you're like, yeah, is your exitck?
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: No, he also got ducks.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: He's really smart. So got out of that and was
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: just like finding my feet and was like you know
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: when you're twenty two and you're just like, it's never
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: going to happen for me, Like you're single and you
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: think you're never going to meet the love of your
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: life because you've left it too late, like so dumb.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: But do you know what I mean? It's so dumb.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: You're just like, what is going on? Anyway? I think
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: I was, Yeah, okay, boys have a lot of a
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: different mentality.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: It was on a TV show.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember being twenty eight and kind of thinking
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: like the thought of hey, maybe it won't happen. Does
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: pop in every now and then?
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: And oh is this going to work out? They're really expensive.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: That's a lot of commitment. Like I love kids, but
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: like all these people are looking about getting up at
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: five am and I'm not a morning person, is that like,
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: And they're dumb things that now I look back and
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: I'm like, that's so dumb that I was.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: It's definitely like the like your young mind thinking, like you.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: Just extrapolate out catastrophe anyway, So I really wanted kids,
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: but I knew I was really purposeful. This is going
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: to sound so lame, and I'm so happy to share it.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: But like when I was dating, I would often like
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: go home to my housemate, who was my best friend
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: still is my best friend. We've had kids at the
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: same time. It's the best and be like, oh no,
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: you would your shit dad.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Like Noah, or some of those red flags that will
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: make you think they'd be a bad really irresponsive, we
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: like really self centered, like oh just you know those
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: things where you're just like I know that you like really.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: Underlying misogyny, like just thinking that there are gender roles, like,
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: but you're dating on Tinder, so you're gonna get like
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: I ended up meeting my husband on Tinder, so it's
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: not all bad. But yeah, I just remember being like red.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Flag you remember the green flags.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: When my husband whipped out photos of his friends kids
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: and oh yeah, on the weekend. I was like, look,
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: how cute you And I was like okay. And then
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: as time went on, he got nieces and nephews, and
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: seeing him with his nieces and nephews, I was.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: Like, can we talk about your husband you met on Tinder?
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: We did classic modern love story. Just give us a
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: little insight to how that went down.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: So I've got dating rules so on Tinder. I thought
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: you guys would like this on Tinder, and I will
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: tell anybody who will listen. Everybody complains, They're like, oh,
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: I never meet the right person online dating because it's
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: so hard, And I'm like, it's because you're not like
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: putting some boundaries in place. I would only go on
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: dates on Monday or Tuesday nights because I'd say we
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: can grab a drink after work, because it gives me
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: the ability to like have a drink with them. We
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: all know that I don't mind turning up to work hungover,
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: so like, if it goes well, I can have a
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: few glasses and some dinner with you and have a
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: nice evening on a Monday. But if it doesn't, I
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: can be like, I've got work really early, so I
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: have to go home and cut it early. Also the
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: type of person that's willing to go on a Monday date.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: They know it's not like a Friday night where they
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: can call you up and be like you up, Like,
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: it's not like if you're willing to go on a
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: Monday date with me, Like you knew it was a
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: glass of wine after work, Like the expectations have been
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: set without me having to articulate them, And so we
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: did that. My husband and I ended up having a
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: whole bottle of wine that night and basically seeing each
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: other every single night for the rest of our lives.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: But wow, so Wednesday night's off the cards.
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: Oh do you know what Wednesdays is?
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Midnight?
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: Well, like in my head, especially because when I first
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: started online dating, I'd come out of this long term
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: relationship and I found that social balance of like dating
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: plus maintaining my friendship groups, and like, if I was
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: going on a date on a Friday night, I'd be like, oh,
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: I'm not going out with the girls. They're getting espressos
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: after work, And like I found that by saying, do
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: you know what, I'm only going to on first date?
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: So not all dates, but first dates on Mondays or Tuesdays.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: That means that the weekends are for the girls. I
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: still have my life balance that I want, my friends
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: aren't being left behind, and it turns out that I
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: did meet the love of my life, So like, that's
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: pretty slight, it's pretty good.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: With any other rules that we should be aware of.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: No, No, just like the Monday night setting some expectations,
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: like I'm a bit of a rules girl, as you
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: guys know.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: We will get into some more rules a little bit later.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Was was there any kind of checklist that you wanted
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: to follow? Because I feel like you are and I
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: love it.
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: No, I didn't. Not with dating, oh.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Without with having kids though, because people.
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: Are often things I wanted to do before.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I'm also like the question of how do I know
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: when I'm ready?
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: So my husband was ready the year that we met, Like, wow,
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: he would have had kids, I think, and been very
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: happy to have kids. I mean, we probably would have
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: wanted to work out a few like semantic things. But
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: I was the one who was like, I really want
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: to get my businesses into a place where I could
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: walk away comfortably. Like if we had gone back three
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: or four years and I had a baby, my businesses
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: would have suffered way too much. Like they would have
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: absolutely gone to the curb. And I knew that when
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: Steve and I were getting married, we kind of had
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: you always plan it, right, You're like, I'm going to
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: get married, We're going to do this, We're going to
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: do that, because like I knew that we were going
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: to get engaged, like and I know that that's not
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: that romantic. It was a surprise. I didn't know when where,
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: but like we'd spoken about marriage, so obviously that was
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: a stead it's going to happen, and like, I'm not
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: letting my husband spend that much on a ring without
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: I was doing some budgeting, like it's say, So there
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: was a lot that I wanted to do, and in fact,
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: I sold my financial advice business because I knew that
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: I couldn't have so many plates spinning by the time
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: that I wanted to have kids. So I decided to
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: focus on my mortgage breaking business and my podcast and
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: then give away that financial advice business. So in September
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty two, I sold that. In November twenty twenty two,
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: I got married, and the plan was to have babies
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: after that.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: So did you want to have like certain financial goals
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: before you started to try to have kids.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: I definitely wanted to make sure that we had a
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: solid ground. In my head, I wanted to own property.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: It was just something that was financially achievable for my
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: husband and I. But I think for me that was
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: just because I wanted financial security. I also own a
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: mortgage breaking business, and I know that what don't you
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: own not my own soul, I having kindergarten, primary school,
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: my mortgage breaking business. Through that, I know that to
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: get alone with dependents is going to drop your borering capacity.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: So I was like, I kind of want to secure
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: that before I have all these dependents.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: That's good advice, that's solid.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: I meant that I could borrow more money and get
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: the house.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: That can it gives you kids back and then go
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: oh no.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: Sorry, the kids didn't come up in the meeting with
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: the broker.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Sorry about that.
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: So I knew I wanted to do that. But for me,
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: I also wanted to have a pretty healthy emergency fund
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: because you never know what's going to happen, and kids
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: are expensive, and birth is expensive or it can be
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: quite expensive, and you just never know. And like for me,
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: I wasn't sure whether I would take you know, two
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: weeks of maternity leave or I'd fall in love with
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: this stay at home monthing and need to take twelve months.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: So we really had to plan financially to go with
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: this situation. Work with that because, as you guys know,
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: you could plan and then the baby comes you like,
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: this is nothing lack we expected.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, yeah it's not.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: This isn't what the box said.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: There's also like this thing, this thing online about how
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: people were saying, this is how much it costs to
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: have a baby.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I got savaged, Like I got sav So I
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: did a podcast on my experience, and I track everything.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: You guys know, I had a spreadsheet, like you know,
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: I have a line item of how much I spent
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: on Gaviscon while I was pregnant. How much it was
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: like three hundred and eighty something. Yeah, there was a
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: lot of Gaviscon. But that's fine. Heartburn, Yeah, it's a heartburn.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: And REFO.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Please tell me they ended up like sponsoring your podcast.
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: You know, they didn't call MEMI.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: I worked hard with that and fruit Tingles they kept
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: to be in business. But it's one of those things
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: that you just can't predict. One what that pregnancy is
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: going to cost, and it could be really low cost.
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: You could go through the public system, which in Australia
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: is incredible, or like me, I was like, oh, I
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: have private health. I want to go through this, but
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: like I didn't know how much that would cost. And
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: I was a financial advisor, but I didn't realize that.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: I don't know if it's different in Sydney, but like
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: we had to pay our obstetric out of pocket that
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: was like ten grand, and then on top of that
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: you have the excess for the hospital, and then the
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: scans on top of that, because it wasn't public, were
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: like four hundred and fifty dollars each and like you
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: get what's seventy dollars back of that And so for us,
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: pregnancy really added up. And I'm very grateful that we
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: had the capacity to pay for that. But at the
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: same time, I'm like, does everybody do this? How are
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: you guys budgeting for this? Because like this is insane
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: to me and I'm not complaining, but I'm also like,
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: we need to be better at planning financially because you
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: don't have to do it the way I did.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: It.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: Wouldn't it be nice that if something's hitting the fan,
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: you have the cash flow available to go. I'd have
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: a lot more peace of mind if we went and
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: just got another ultrasound, Like I'd just be able to
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: sit better at night. And I'd want people to have
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: that flexibility.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: A lot of people that can't afford to do that
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: and they're not aware of.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you just don't know your options either if you
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: don't do enough research into your finances, because the more
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: you research into what would this cost, you're like, oh,
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: that cost came out. I didn't realize that might be
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: part of it, And why do I have this? And
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: it's kind of like working backwards.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Don't know if there's any other complications that happened after
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: birth as well. It's kind of like we've just spent
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: all this money trying to do things the safest and
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: the most a peace of mind, but then anything could happened.
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: Right, you can't control it, and like, that's exactly what happened.
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: I was so hippie dippy. I spent so much money
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: on at cupuncture in the lead up to birth, and
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: I saw this gorgeous birth physio. She was a midwife
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: and a physio, and we did all of these like
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: opening up your hips, massages and stuff, and it ended
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: up in an emergency Cisian money.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Well, of course our birth plan goes out the windows.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: Who we don't know her.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: We want to talk about your pregnancies, yes, and we
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: spoke before we started recording about your miscarriage.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: And I want to know what was it like leading
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: up to your first miscarriage after you have been pregnant?
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Was it twelve weeks?
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah? So we lost our first pregnancy at ten weeks
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: and we lost our second pregnancy at twelve weeks and
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: we still don't know why. So like there's obviously no
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: reason why, but like, let's be honest, it was really shit.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: It was shit for me, It was shit for my
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: husband the first time though. I don't know how much
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: do you want me to get into it, but like
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: I found out that I was miscarrying because I was bleeding,
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: and that's obviously a really stressful period of time. I
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: was so excited though, because like I'd want a baby's
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: for so long found out I was pregnant. I told everybody,
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: like I had told every Mannites dog like I can't
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: keep a secret to save my life. So if you've
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: got them, don't tell them to me because I will yap.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: I just come on, I'm just so excited about it.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: How long have you been trying for before you?
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: We were really lucky. We got pregnant really quickly. So
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: our first pregnancy, it turns out when I went on
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: my honeymoon, which was we got married and then there
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: was a few weeks and then we went on a
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: honeymoon because work life balance, it's out the window. It
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: turns out we tried on our honeymoon, but I was
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: actually already pregnant, so that was really good.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: So we had go before then.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what a man, well done, Steve Gold. So that
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: that was really surprising because I for my whole life
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: had period issues and like you know, lots of like
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: women issues. That meant I just assumed it was going
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: to be really hard, and it happened really quickly, and
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: I was like, wow, this is magic, this is really cool.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: I was a bit anxious because I hadn't started like
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: taking the prenatles and stuff, and like you want to
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: do all of the right things, and so yeah, I
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: went to a work event and found that I was bleeding.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: And was like, oh, did you feel.
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: No, I felt fine, like everything was hunky dory. I
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: did have pretty bad morning sickness, but like in my
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: head that was like a good thing, right, like that's
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: a sign of a sticky good pregnancy. And yeah, I
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: was bleeding and did a bit of googling and had
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: convinced myself that was actually okay because it was only
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: a little bit. And then I went home and it
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: just got worse and worse. I ended up in emergency
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: with my husband, and yeah, they let us know that
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: that wasn't viable. And then that in itself is a
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: bit of a circus because you get there and I
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: at that point I knew what was happening, like, you
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: can't that amount of blood, that amount of blood, that situation,
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: like it was stressful because emergency. Obviously, I'm not gushing
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: blood out of my arm. I don't need stitches. I'm
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: not the priority. I get it, but like your baby,
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: at that point, nothing could feel more urgent. So it
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: just felt like they were moving at snail's pace. And
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: then they lost my blood work three times, and so
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: like we'd gone into emergency straight after my work events.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: So I was like, maybe they're from two pm till
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: five am, and they kept losing the blood work, and
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: I kept saying, I know what's happening. Can I just
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: go home? And they were like, no, I'm really sorry.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: We need to actually like make sure this isn't an
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: ectopic pregnancy, because if it is, we need to do
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: surgery and all of that other stuff. So you're just
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: sitting in limbo in an emergency with some dude beside
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: you complaining about his toe and you're just like, this
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: is not the moment. So that happened, and it was
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: really bad because I came home and then had to
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: tell everybody that had happened and it wasn't. I'm the
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: type of person where, yeah, that was devastating. I was
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: so upset, But I'm also really pragmatic. If it's not
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: meant to be, it's not meant to be. And I'm
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: a bit hippie dippy, so I'm very much okay, cool,
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: like I have a sudden Harvey now, and I'm very
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: much of the opinion that his little soul was destined
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: for me and those other previous babies they had the
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: same soul that body just didn't work, and that really
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: has helped me be like, no, like in the moment
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: it feels like your world is ending. But now I'm
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: like okay, cool, Like that was just part of the
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: journey for me to get Harvey Like, it's not good,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: but that's part of the journey, right.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I try and remember we had a really similar scenario.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Laura miscarried in a similar way that she found out
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: by bleeding and it didn't stop. Kind of thing back
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: to how we managed the emotional whiplash of thinking you're
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: pregnant one second and then finding you lost over the next.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: And it's like all your.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: Hopes and dreams have been wished, Like I've just been
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: ripped away.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't help, but imagine, you know, life as
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: a parent, you know, like changing your baby's nappy, like
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: going to the park. You know, as you're you know,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: thinking about as pregnancy, you look at other families and
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: everything around you is just all baby, baby, baby. Yeah,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: how do you digest the news?
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: I gas lipped myself a lot, so I was like,
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: it's fine, these things happen. It's one in four, like
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: all of that stuff that you hear. I didn't really
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: know anybody with it. When I started to share that
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: I had been through it, though, people would be like, oh,
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: us too. I'd be like, sorry, what, yeah, what I mean, Like,
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: you know, i'd talk to someone like you, Matt, and
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: you'd be like, yeah, we went through that. I'd be
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: like sorry, what like when? How? Like what happened? What
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: did you do? And so it was nice to talk
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: about it. I did feel awkward talking about it because, like,
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: you know, I might bop on into a podcast recording
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: with someone and haven't seen you guys in ages, and
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: you might go, how's the pregnancy, And I'd have to
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: be like, oh, I'm going to make this really awkward
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: for you, and I think that I'm one of those
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: people I don't want to make it awkward for I'd
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: be like, I'm really sorry, but I'm okay. But also,
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: this happened, and that was I hated delivering the news
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: that it wasn't there, which is why I waited with
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: my second and then third pregnancy so long to tell people.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: Not because I was waiting for that twelve weeks, but
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: I just I didn't want to tell someone something to
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: then have to make it awkward to bring it back up.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: I don't know, it was. It was an interesting period
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: of time, but I definitely gas liped myself into being like,
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: it's fine, this happens a lot. I was heartbroken, but
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: like I probably didn't process it the way that I would,
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: which is why the second time it happened it was
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: way worse.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: After that, the thought of falling pregnant again, the anxiety.
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: Rose so stressed and I'm really lucky I get pregnant
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: very quickly, which is so nice, and so many people
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: struggle with that, and that made me feel guilty again
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: because I was like, this is you know, that's the
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: easy bit for me, and so many people struggle, and
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: we all struggle with different things. But I remember getting
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: pregnant probably the month after our miscarriage, and it was
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: an accident. We weren't not trying. We knew we wanted babies,
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: but I just didn't think it would happen that quickly.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: And then I found out I was pregnant and I
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: was elated but terrified, Like I just cried for like
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: three days because I was so scared of what would happen.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: And I called my doctor. I was like, what can
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: I do? How can I make it sticky? Like what
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: how do I not lose this baby? And he was
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: just have the same morning sickness again same thing. That's
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: how I found out because I felt really off and
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: I was like, we haven't tried yet, and so felt
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: really off and took a pregnancy test, elated, bit terrified,
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: and my doctor was like, no, like it's so rare
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: for it to happen a second time, like less than
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: one percent of people experience recurrent this carriage. And I'm like, okay,
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: all right, Like that that made me feel a little
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: bit better. I wasn't as anxious as my third pregnancy,
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: but like this second one fine was going. So we
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: like because we'd had a loss, we'd booked in really
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: early with our obstetrician, and I had like a six
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: week scan, an eight week scan, a ten weeks like
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: and I got to see this baby all the time.
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: And then we went to our twelve week scan and
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: she had to say, I'm really sorry, but there's no
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: heartbeat and fack, I had a missed miscarriage, which is
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: where you don't know that you're not pregnant anymore, and
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: the baby passed away, and so whipped down to the
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: hall or we whipped down the hallway to another like
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: ultrasound clinic because they have to like double check and
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: make sure that the first one was right, and they
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: confirmed it and they said, you can go home. I
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: said what I said, you can go home, like and
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: see if you naturally miscarrie. We'll call you in a
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: couple of days and see how you're going. I mean,
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: my OB was very empathetic, she was very kind. But
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: you're like, what do you mean I just go home?
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: You just told me that I'm not pregnant anymore. I'm
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: still so full of morning sickness. I'm so like, what
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: do you mean I feel pregnant? Like, okay, so go
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: home and I wait and I wait and nothing happened.
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: Should call every day and be like, how are you feeling?
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: Has anything happened? And I'd be like no, because in
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: a lot of those situations and OB will pick it up,
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: or your doctor will pick it up, and then you
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: will just start bleeding at home and like things will
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: progress naturally. It didn't for me, and so I had
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: to go in for a DNC and like going to
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: hospital do all of that?
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: What's a d and sorry, so.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: It's a I can't even remember. It's something in curatedge.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: It's basically where they perform a medical procedure to remove
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: the baby and like all of which is really stressful
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: because obviously no one wants to go through that. In
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: addition to that, you've got all of this doubt. What
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: if they're wrong, What if I'm going into this surgery,
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: Like this surgery is real final, like they're going to
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: take the baby out. What if they were wrong and
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: they just couldn't see that? So the anxiety of going
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: into that was really awful. And I just remember that's
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: when I really I wasn't as anxious that pregnancy because
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: I was, like my doctor said, it was only one
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: percent chance. But the idea of getting pregnant a third time, yeah,
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: that wasn't very fun.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: When you were in recovery following your second miscarriage. I'm
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: assuming there's no silver bullet to something that you would
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: do to try and make the situation easier for yourself
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: and for your partner. But do you remember, was there
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: anything that that really helped you? Oh?
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: My god, yes, it was the nurse. I was actually
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: telling Zara, my assist, about this literally yesterday. We're grilled
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: obviously talking about my miscarriage, which is very normal for
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: me as you do as you do, and I remember
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: it didn't really hit me, like you go through the motions, right,
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: like a doctor tells you you're going to go into hospital.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: This time, you go in your check in whatever, real clinical,
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: like I'm not crying or anything, I'm not upset. Wasn't
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: until they started going, all right, we're going to take
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: you down to surgery, and they like put the sides
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: of the bed up, and I was hysterical, like I
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: it was uncontrollable. And there was this gorgeous nurse and
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: she like grabbed my hand and was stroking my hand
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: and she's like, I will just be here because my
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: husband couldn't come into surgery with me and so like
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: he walked all the way. But anyway, she was holding
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: my hand and she was stroking it and being like, oh,
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: it's okay. I've been here and it gets better. I
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: promised it's okay. And she was like the most wholesome
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: person in the entire world. And I just remember it
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: was like I don't need you to tell me I'm
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: going to be okay. But the empathy of somebody just
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: being like this really fucking shit, I'm really sorry, you
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: are making the right decision, like it like just validating
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: what I'm going through like, I don't need someone to go.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: We went through that, and what happened was and like,
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: I just don't have the mental capacity for that right now,
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: but could you kind of just coddle me and make
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: sure that I feel so cared about? And she did,
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: and in a very full circle moment, I ended up
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: having an emergency cesarian at the same hospital that I
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: had my DNC performed at. And I again was quite
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: upset because I had this like natural birth plan right
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: like I was going to I was going to a
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: raw dog birth. I was gonna be the best birthing
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: lady ever. And I was just really upset that I
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: was going down into this emergency cesarean. I felt really
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: out of control, and as you have probably learned, I
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: don't like being out of control. That was not a
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: situation I loved. And the same woman I lost it,
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: I lost it like.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I would she remember you?
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah? And I saw her. And when you're going into
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: a cesarean, I don't know how it works at other hospitals,
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: but you get you get like taken into the surgery
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: and they say to your husband or your your birthday partner,
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: wait out there, We're just going to get everything set up,
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: and they they move you onto the bed and like
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: get the little hit one too. Yeah, so you can
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: hear that, but you can't see me and my We
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: separated for a bit and then you get invited back
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: into the room once everything's ready for us.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: They dropped my wife. That's because I heard you.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Look after itsh.
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: Alright, you can get yes. Steve comes back in. I'm
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: hysterical because I'm just like this is meant to be. Like,
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: there's this beautiful woman and she helped my hand again
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: while I had Harvey, which was really cool, but that
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: felt really full, so cool.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: That was fucking crazy. That's also amazing that she remembered
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: you because our midwife I saw her at the shops
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: maybe like a few months after we've given birth, and
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I was like hey, and she didn't have any idea.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, that's right, she must do that every day.
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: My husband did humble me after because I was like,
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: oh my god, it was amazing. I need to find
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: out her name, Rah Rah And he's like, how did
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: you remember you? You must have been real hysterics.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Thanks, funny, amazing, Like just just the anxiety with Harvey
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: of just like trying to make sure that nothing was
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: going to go wrong. But it's so out of your control,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: is just so freaking scary.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: It's terrifying. And I just kept in my head during
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: her pregnancy, which for our third pregnancy, our obstetrician recommended
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: that I started taking progesterone and like a few other
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: things to hopefully help. And I don't know if it worked,
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: but that pregnancy worked. So like the second I find
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: out I'm pregnant again, one day, I will be running
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: for the progesterone because in my head that worked. But
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: I remember thinking that milestones were going to help my
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: mental health. So I'd be like, right, once we hit
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: twelve weeks and we'd get to that scan and it's
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: all good, but it's going to be fine, And then
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: it wasn't, and I was so anxious. And I don't
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: believe that I enjoyed that pregnancy at all, because every
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: time I thought about it, I was anxious. I ended
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: up with preclampsia, so I was calling the hospital every
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: year with my blood pressure and just like it was
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: just a bit of an experience. But I remember fourteen weeks.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: I was like, surely at fourteen weeks, because like that's
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: pretty legit.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be fine.
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: No, maybe twenty weeks, maybe when you hit halfway. No, oh,
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: maybe when I hit twenty three and like I reached that,
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: you know, they say it's viable, a viable pregnant. Maybe
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: that will make me feel good because if something happens,
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: like they will go into like I see your like
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: neo natal care or whatever.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Nothing helped.
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: It was when I had him in my arms and
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: I'm like, we actually did it, like we didn't mess
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: it up, Like what.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Do you mean?
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: That was when I started to be like, oh, this
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: is really real. But it did feel quite abstract because
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: I think you also go into protecting yourself a little
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: bit by being like I'm going to distance myself from
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: this baby a little bit, which then made me stressed.
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: I'm like, am I not forming the right bond with
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: this baby? And so it was an experience, I suppose.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: And then what was the newborn phase? Like, I mean,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: you're kind of almost still in a newborn phase because
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: you're eight months.
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: Now, which is wild. He's such a chunky boy, Like
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: he's like thirteen kilos.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: At eight months, with my kid's like five and a half.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Anyways, like fifteen, I can't.
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: I can't. He's so big. He's in like eighteen month
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: old clothing. At eight, he's like a little good show
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: your photo.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: His little It's a bit of a flex when you
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: get a big kid.
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: I can't put him in his carrier. I look novel
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: carrying him like, oh, I like getting him in and
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: out of the car.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I'm like with any parts that you found really difficult.
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: A few. I think going from being so career orientated
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: to being a mum where I'm home all the time,
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: I really struggled with because I felt like, what am
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: I meant to do with my hands when he's asleep,
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: Like I'm what am I supposed to do? I also
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: really struggled with breastfeeding that never worked for me from
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: being in the hospital. It was painful, it was hard.
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: My son had a tongue tie that we ultimately had
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: to get cut, which was okay, but then once he
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: was feeding properly, I think it was a bit too late.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: So I went on the medication to increase my milk supply,
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: and all that did was make me put on seven kilos,
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: which didn't impact my mental health at all. But it's
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: one of those things that that didn't work, but I
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: was so like, I had to breastfeed, like I have to.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Why.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: I don't know, there's so much pressure. But I'm a
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: really logical person. So if you came to me and
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: said I'm struggling breastfeeding, first thing I do is be like,
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: you know, you could just use formula. But then the
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: pressure you put on yourself to like be this stereotypical mum,
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: You're just like, but I have to. I have to try.
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: And so I was trying and trying, and I was crying,
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: my boobs were cracked. My song was, you know, not
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: putting on wag. The maternal health nurse was consistently like, hey,
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: like we need to do formula top ups and I
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: was like, okay, we can, but like, I'm trying so hard,
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: and I was like doing what's called triple feeding, where
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: you like feed the baby from the breast, you then
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: feed them with a bottle and pump, and it killed me,
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: Like it was a circus. I feel like, once I
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: finished that and put him to sleep, I was cleaning
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: pumps and bottles and then going back to do it
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: again around the clock, and it just my milk supply
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: never increased, and I think that pressure to breastfeed, and
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: it's so easy for so many women in my mother's group,
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: and I remember looking at them being like, oh, I
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: felt I felt bad pulling a formula bottle out of
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: the pram and like you shouldn't.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: No, no, And.
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: Now he's one hundred percent formula and we've never been
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: happier and what the hell was that?
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: It's crazy this, Yeah, the expectation. I think that that
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: mum was put on themselves, Like you were saying, like,
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: if someone came to you and said my baby's not
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: not latching, you'd be like, just try some formula. And
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: it's so easy to just say that, And I get that, yeah,
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: probably have other moms that when you were struggling, you
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: were like actually really struggling mentally with the whole thing.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: And it's mental.
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the mental thing. It's not even like, yeah,
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: breastfeeding physically wasn't happening, well, but it's the pressure. It's
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: the anxiety, it's the feeling like a ship mom. And
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: does that make your shit mom? Absolutely not, absolutely not,
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: And like I'm a better mum now my baby is
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: on formula because he is happy, he is healthy, he
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: is thriving and so am I like, that's the ultimate outcome,
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: So next baby, I'll give it a crack. Sure, because
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: I actually enjoyed the active breastfeeding. It was really nice
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: to form that bond. But once Harvey hit six months,
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: I was still trying to breastfeed him. In six months
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: and he was feeding morning and night, and I felt
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: like that was a good bonding time, but also we
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: were definitely still topping him up with formula. He got
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: teeth and was like, hey, hey, I'm going to bite you,
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: and I was like.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I think actually done?
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: You didn't pass your six month probation, so we're just
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: going to cancel this role and move on.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: The only part that I didn't like about the fact
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: that both our kids started bottlefeeding pretty early on was
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: the fact that I had to do the feeds at
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: nighttime with Laura. And up until that point, when Laura
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: was breastfeeding, I had a pretty clean run. Yeah, So
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: when Laura was like, I think we're going to do formula,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: I was like, that's totally fine.
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: My husband took it like a champ. He was just like, oh,
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: I'll do all of that. Like I feel like.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: I've lucked down the green flag.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: That's also that's also what I said.
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: Like my husband walked the walk mat and do you
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: know what this is? Such a flex. I was talking
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: on the plane on the way here to one of
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: my team members and I said, do you know how
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: cool it is that I just got up really early
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: this morning? I got on a plane. I'm coming to Sydney.
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: I have an eight month old baby, and I didn't
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: feel the need at all to leave my husband any instructions.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Wow, I just knew.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: He knew.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: Does he not know the bar is that low? He's
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: just like, wow, man, we need to have a chat
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: to hear. We need to talk to this girl.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: It's the green flags. They lived up to their expectations.
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: They did, and I feel like that was actually something
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: that was important to me dating and like finding a
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: life partner. I did want a good dad. I was
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: always like, I want to marry a good d I
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: had a good dad. Babies deserve that. And you know,
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: sometimes you can't pick it, and sometimes the person that
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: you think you're marrying ends up not being the person
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: that you're marrying. Like there's so many different situations, but like, goddamn,
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: am I so grateful that it actually worked out.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I should celebrate that behavior because jokes aside, that's that
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: is how dads should be behaving. It shouldn't be nonomally
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: to have a dad like that.
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, but I remember being like, I should be
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: celebrating because like, this is not what society has said
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: is the expectation. Like I'm talking to other people that
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: I know and they're like, oh my god, I had
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: to leave frozen meals and I had to leave out
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: a list and they didn't even know where, you know
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: what the code was, a daycare drop off and all
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: of this other stuff. And I remember being.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: Like, just honestly, from a bloke perspective, a lot of
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: blokes are useless.
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but like the other day, I had to ask
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: my husband. I was like, sorry, what was the and
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: a formula? Again, I'm buying it, like maybe I'm a ship.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: What one was it? And he's like it's a Lula Advance,
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: not gold And I was like, oh, yeah, totally, I
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: get it.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: I do want to ask you about We've spoken about
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: some of your dating rules. You do have some other
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: rules that I'm going to bring up and just get
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: your position.
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: Not everybody likes my rules.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: The Internet doesn't seem to like my rules, but I
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: think you guys.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Will, Okay, this is specifically for you born stage.
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: I feel like we need to give a little bit
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: of context because it makes me one. I feel like
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: I'm justifying myself, but also it does make me seem
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: a little bit more de Lulu, and I think that
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: works for you.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: You have got yourself Hippi dippy at least four times
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: so fast that it is true.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: I was told that.
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: Not only are these rules, but this is a set
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: of rules that I sent out to all of my
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: friends and family before I even had the baby.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Oh before you had the baby.
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: The baby didn't even even Oh my gosh, the baby.
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: I hadn't been born yet.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Can I just give you the first one? Really quick? Hello,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: family and friends.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: I'll take on the first rule. Some of these are
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: very obvious.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: I haven't seen this in a very very long time.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Let me refresh your memory. Rule Number one, please do
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: not kiss our baby on their face.
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: I feel like that's reasonable. I agree, like babies get sick,
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: they have really bad immune systems. I want to kiss
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: my baby all over my face. I get it. I
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: get it, too, true doating dads your newborns. Did you
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: want people kissing your baby on their face?
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Well, our kids were COVID baby, it.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: Must be nice.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: She's got you there, so no one would have done.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: That to correct Yeah, point taken for my second was
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: so we didn't have that problem.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: But the first one I can't. I can't remember.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: I think I don't think anyone did, maybe without me
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: knowing or seeing, but like looking at this and reading it, going,
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: that's so reasonable, especially with hsv RSV.
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: I want you to love my baby. I really do, totally,
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: but and I'm not don't but don't lick their face?
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's to be weird. It's like Steve's that again.
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: Talk to my dog.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: This one's also, I think, really reasonable.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: If you're sick, could be sick, or have been around
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: someone who is sick, please reschedule you visit.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: We can't wait to share our.
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: Baby with you, but also want to make sure they're
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: say totally fair.
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: Okay, okay, I think that's very reasonable. I feel like
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: not turning up when someone has a newborn and you're
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: potentially sick.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Did you have to turn anyone away? No?
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: I didn't, because do you know what. My family and
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: friends were incredibly respectful of the rules that I said.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that one should be pretty common knowledge too,
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: Like if you if you're sick, you don't want to
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: go near a baby, so you.
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: Think that, but like common knowledge is not that common?
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Well, this one is a crazy one.
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: Oh it's crazy.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Explain this one. Please wash your hands before picking up
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: the baby.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Definitely not I'm joking.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Sorry, all right.
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: Hold on, hold on, When you guys go to the bathroom,
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: do you wash your hands every time?
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Bullshit, you're not in there with me.
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: Too quick. Men are too quick, many too.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Quick washing your hands.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: You looked in the chap moving on.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, I think this is also very reasonable too, thinking.
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: That they're reasonable. But I got savaged on the internet
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: because I got asked about this and I said, I'll
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: share the screenshots of my message no worries, and people
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: were like, you are controlling, you are weird.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Tell us which one if there was anyone in particular
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: that caused them, like the biggest controversy, I'm going.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: To give you this one really quick.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: Please don't post any photos of our baby online or
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: share them with others without act consent.
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: So we don't share any photos of Harvey online of
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: his face. Like I'll share pictures of us with our kid,
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: but I always put like an emoji or something over
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: his face. I just I don't want my baby online.
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: I'm not a mum content creator. I'm not a family
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: content creator. My husband is not part of like the
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: social media world. I just feel like that's us, that's
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: our that's my do I think other people should do it.
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: Not like I love seeing other people's baby.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: No better I love it. But like I'm a finance
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: content creator and I get and I mean you probably
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: do as parents as well, But like I get a
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: lot of bad feedback because I'm talking about like one
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: of those three sacred topics that you should never talk about,
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: and that's money. And so I just I don't know.
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: It just makes me uncomfortable.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Similar to me when I post my money, I put
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: an emoji over it.
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I have noticed that.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: It's suitcase of money.
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: Like every time you take a selfie in the mirror
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: as you're leaving and you're like, oh sorry, I had
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: to put an emoji over that wallet.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Victoria, what about this one? No strong sense?
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you can't wear perfuc around a newborn. What is
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: that it marks up there like a little that links Africa.
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: That's the only one I allowed. That's the only one
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: I allowed. So babies are really really sensitive, so having
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: perfume on around them is actually really bad for their
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: little endocrime system. And during that period of time when
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: they are a newborn, they're trying to bond via smell
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: to their parents. So please don't get in the way
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: of that.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: The last one hit, which the most controversial of all.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, yes, this is going to be very controversial.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: If you haven't had an up to date hooping cough vaccination,
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: please don't plan a visit before our babies at least
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: six weeks old.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: I mean explain that one, Victoria.
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: I'm just so pro vaxed, you know, so hooping cough
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: can kill newborns, feel like I don't actually want that
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: to happen. And it turns out, yeah, it's wild, but
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: it turns out it's like semi avoidable. Like you could
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: just get vaccinated, and do I need you to get
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: a bat No, But like the trade off is you
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: can just meet our baby after their SCE.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: You just wait and be patient. I think that's fat.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: I think boundaries are very important, and I think it's
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: fucking great that.
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: You have been gets hilarious that I had to listen
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: to those back when I am a little bit unhinged.
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: Hey, no, I think like you was saying, some people
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: common knowledge is in that common like there's some of
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: those are on like the scent one.
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I see, I had no idea about this either.
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: And I had the privilege of having babies last in
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: our friendship group, so all of my friends had had that,
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: and I just remember along a long the time, you know,
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: a friend would be like, oh my god, such and
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: such as mum came and visited the baby and she
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: was covered in perfume and I was like what.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: And she was looking at face.
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: I was like what, Yeah, so I was. I was
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: kind of like, oh, I didn't realize that I wouldn't
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: have done that. But also I didn't realize that was
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: actually an issue. So being able to see and learn
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: from their mistakes and set them up so I didn't
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: have to, you know, turn to my mum and be like,
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: I love your perfume, but can you not leave?
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: See, I guarantee, while it would have been a lot
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: of people who are online being like what is this?
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: There would have been even more people's screenshotting those rules
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: to use the.
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: People messaging and being like, I wish that I had
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: done the same thing. I didn't even think about it
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: or I didn't know, and I'm like, neither did I. I
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: just got to learn from all of my friends. Switches.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Can you sniff the baby?
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: You can sniff the baby?
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Sniff feet?
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Matt's walk in the street.
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: What is that? Why is it so good? Their feet?
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: Their head the top of it.
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually held a baby for the first time. Yeah,
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: I've actually picked the baby have my life. He must
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: be drunk, so good little drunk newborns.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Victoria. I do want to ask you to finance questions.
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: I love finance question and there may.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Not be answers to these questions. If there's not, tell
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: me to shut up. Yeah, but I'll try my luck.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Question number one, would you say is the biggest financial
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: mistake that parents make for their kids?
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: Oh, biggest financial mistake not investing in themselves. So like,
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: I think parents make the mistake of thinking that to
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: teach kids about money, they need to give their kids money,
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: Like money is hard at the moment, we're in the
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: middle of a cost of living crisis. Your kid does
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: not need. They don't need their own little pay packet
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: every week to manage. They need to see parents who
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: are role modeling good money behaviors, like they need to
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: see parents who are having open, honest conversations about budgets,
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: Like you don't have to sit down with your five
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: year old and be like, so mummy earns sixty five
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: thousand dollars and daddy earns, but like, have you heard
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: a compound interest? Yes, kids are smarter than you give
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: them credit for. They catch on really quickly. But even
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: just small things like not teaching them money during the
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: grocery shop being like, okay, cool, So we have two
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: hundred dollars to spend this grocery shop and that means
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: that we need to look at these little dockets and
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: you know those usually as a ten dollars a box.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: What is that about, by the way, and these ones,
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: the off brand ones, you know, they're three, so you
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: could choose, you could have three different snack options or
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: one which one is? I know they're your favorite, but
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: do you want more for the week? Because once they're out,
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: they're at kids that have little games and decisions, And
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: I think that the mistake parents make is thinking we
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: need to have a lot of money, we need to
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: pay them pocket money and get them to learn money
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: that way, when in reality it's actually we learn by
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: osmosis and being around people who are good with money.
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: So I think that that would be the biggest mistake.
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: It's not like investing or saving like you don't that
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: pressure is wild. The idea that you know, I get
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: asked all the time, how are you investing for Harvey?
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: And it's like, why aren't we talking about your emergency fund?
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: And you know, filling your own cup first and being
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: a parent that you know doesn't have to rely on credit.
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: It's hard, but like can we put ourselves in that position?
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: And they'd be like, wow, you know this unexpected bill
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: came up, Jim, and we were able to pay for it.
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: Isn't call that we saved and then now we weren't
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: in a bit of a pickle. We can still go
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: on the family holiday, we can still do that fund
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: thing on the weekend. It's not going to impact that. Like,
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: I think that is probably a mistake. It's not using
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: everyday opportunities to teach kids about money when you think
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: you need it. You don't need heaps of money to
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: be good at money.
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: What is the one thing parents or expecting parents should
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: be doing financially?
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: Do you think.
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: Bumping up their emergency funds because you just never know
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: what's going to happen. Life is expensive and you can
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: budget to the end of the earth, but sometimes you
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: need a little bit of wiggle room to order a
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: tin of formula or Uber eats. And yes it is
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: more expensive and it is not the best quote financial decision,
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: but that is going to take so much pressure off
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: your relationship. Wrangling a baby, Wrangling a newborn is hard,
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: getting out of the house even harder. So I would
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: make sure that I have an emergency fund, make sure
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: it's got, you know, as much as I feel comfortable
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: in it, but also then don't feel bad when you're
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: using it during those periods of time, because to me,
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: an emergency fund is there to help you with emergencies.
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: And I know that you might go car accident or theft,
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: but an emergency actually might be your mental health and
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: just ordering that Tina formula or the food or even
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: dinner or a pizza for two on Uber eats and
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: paying a ridiculous amount for it so that you can
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: stay on the couch and not have to lift a finger,
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: because that's what's going to make your entire week better.
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: So I think that emergency funds and savings are It's
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: not private school education. It's not you know, all these
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: fancy things kids, as you guys would probably know, they
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: need not that much. Have you got somewhere safe for
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: them to sleep? Have you got a nappy for them
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: to wear? And have you got food for them? Like
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: that's basic of what we need. Anything else is a luxury.
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: So how do we kind of go back to like
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: we don't need a Mama roos swing. I promise you
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: don't need you don't need that. You don't need the
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: fancy carriers, you don't They're nice to have.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: What's the rocking?
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah? The mamaru just gets hand me down,
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: the hand me down there.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: Our baby beyond car carry went through like four different
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: steps of parents.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good because.
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: They use it to such a short period of time.
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: But I think seeing those things as luxuries is important
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: as well.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: I love that. I do have one last question before
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: you got Victoria, what will be the one thing that
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: you want Harvey to remember about the house that he
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: grew up in.
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: That it was full of love, Like I don't. I
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: don't care about what it looks like or what it's done.
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: I want him to know that. Like I want him
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: to grow up and like you know, when you talk
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: about your family, be like, oh my god, everyone was welcome.
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: I want him to always be like, oh, all my friends,
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: they would always come over, like. I want him to
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: know that everyone is welcome and that he's never not
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: safe there. I think that for me is gold standard.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Not the advanced standard, just gold standards every child.
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: But yeah, every child deserves to feel safe and wanted
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: and loved. And I think that that and sometimes be
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: hard to achieve in a home, especially if it's busy
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: or like pic Dick. I just want him to look
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: back and be like, oh, we had so much fun,
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: we had so much love, Like that would be that
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: would be very cool, good answer, we sure, my mum.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: Sometimes Victoria mummy, that would get weird, really weird. Yeah, old,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: thank you so much, thank you for having me.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for jumping on.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: And I could just suck all the financial wisdom out
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: of your brain.
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: It's free for the taking.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much. One of the biggest lessons I learned
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: from our chat with Victoria Matthew.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what would that be?
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: My children do not deserve a cent.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: As if you needed any convincing. A huge thanks to
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Victoria for sharing her experience with pregnancy loss. It's a
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: very difficult and vulnerable chat. Wonderful women go through it,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: and I think it's so important that more people talk
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: about the topic.
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, matt And if you've enjoyed this episode, make sure
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: you crew and follow Two Doting Dads wherever you get
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: your podcasts or on social media of course Two Dodion
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: Dads on Instagram, join the Facebook page, join the chat and.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Also a little reminder as well. The calendars are still
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: available at the moment. Are reminded that all proceeds one
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: goes to Rise Up, an amazing charity that works with
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: victims of domestic violence. So if you haven't bought one yet,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: go ahead and buy them because they will sell out.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: The link is in the show notes Budgetmogler dot com
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: dot au.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Bye here.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: throughout Australia, and the connections to land, see and community.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: We pay our respects to their elders past and present,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestraight Islander
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: people's today. This episode was recorded on Gadigle Land