Latest / Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori / 40. Getting Started on Your Novel with Stephanie Dethlefs

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40. Getting Started on Your Novel with Stephanie Dethlefs · Show, don't Tell Writing with Suzy Vadori

• 0:07
  Welcome to Show.
• 0:07
  Don't Tell Writing with me, Suzy Vadori, where I teach you the tried and true secrets to writing fiction nonfiction that are gonna wow your readers broken down step by step.
• 0:18
  We're gonna explore writing techniques.
• 0:21
  I'm gonna show you a glimpse behind the scenes of successful writers' careers that you wouldn't have access to otherwise.
• 0:27
  And I'm also gonna coach writers live on their pages so that you can learn and transform your own storytelling.
• 0:33
  Whether you're just starting out, you're drafting your first book, you're editing, or you're currently rewriting that book, or maybe even your 10th book, this show's gonna help you unlock the writing skills that you didn't even know you needed, but you definitely do.
• 0:47
  I'm so looking forward to helping you get your amazing ideas from your mind onto your pages in an exciting way for both you and your readers so that you can achieve your wildest writing dreams, and you're gonna also have some fun doing it.
• 1:02
  Let's dive in.
• 1:06
  Stephanie Dele is a fellow writing coach who works with writers on the process of writing.
• 1:11
  She's always finding awesome ways to get words on the page with them, whether they're tackling a full novel, a short story, or whatever else they wanna write.
• 1:20
  She's a former teacher and a self-professed introvert, and Enneagram six.
• 1:25
  She's also an avid flash fiction writer these days who set a goal this year of earning a hundred rejections, which I love.
• 1:34
  Stephanie lives in the Pacific Northwest, but we recently met up in person to record this for you, and Steph shared her best strategies on how to get started.
• 1:44
  She's got some really interesting takes on how to work on your mindset as well as how to get started.
• 1:49
  Story-wise, Steph helps writers a ton and keeps them moving forward.
• 1:55
  She is so inspiring and I can't wait for you to meet her on this episode.
• 2:00
  I.
• 2:02
  Welcome, Steph, to the show.
• 2:04
  This has been a long time coming.
• 2:06
  Yeah, it has.
• 2:07
  Thank you for having me.
• 2:08
  And you know, we've talked about you coming on the show before and now we are actually sharing a blueberry drink here.
• 2:15
  Delightful a good day.
• 2:18
  You know, I don't get a ton of opportunity.
• 2:20
  I've had this amazing chance to meet with so many of my colleagues.
• 2:24
  And to do these in person, they are my absolute favorite shows.
• 2:28
  We're gonna talk with Steph today about one of her favorite subjects, and maybe not one of your favorite subjects, dear writer.
• 2:36
  But, uh, getting started and getting started and what, like mindset-wise and story-wise and all the things.
• 2:44
  Steph's a writing coach and an amazing writer herself.
• 2:48
  Let's get started.
• 2:49
  Let's get into it.
• 2:50
  Get into it.
• 2:52
  Like, well, you're excited about talking about this.
• 2:55
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:55
  What is it that lights you up about helping writers, quote unquote get started?
• 3:00
  Like where did this come from?
• 3:02
  This intrigue?
• 3:03
  Yeah.
• 3:03
  Well, it's a couple of reasons.
• 3:05
  First of all, when I say getting started, I'm really referring to a couple of different things.
• 3:10
  So there's getting started on a singular project.
• 3:14
  So if you have a book in mind, you have a story that you want to put on the page, whether it's.
• 3:20
  Book length or shorter or whatever it is.
• 3:23
  There's that, how do I start?
• 3:24
  Where do I start?
• 3:25
  It's too big.
• 3:26
  I don't know.
• 3:26
  So there's that piece.
• 3:28
  And then there's also the getting started.
• 3:30
  I talk a lot about the routines and rituals around building a writing practice.
• 3:35
  And so there's, I.
• 3:37
  There's also that like, how do I start today when I've got 5,000 other things that I could be doing?
• 3:43
  And so there's kind of those two things.
• 3:46
  But the answer to your question is that I.
• 3:51
  Have talked to so many writers over the last few years who have lived with the desire to write or the desire to tell a specific story for so long.
• 4:04
  Yeah.
• 4:04
  They feel called to write it.
• 4:05
  They feel called to write it or just called to write in general, but they don't consider themselves writers.
• 4:13
  They tell themselves all of the stuff, which I'm sure you've talked about with your listeners about Oh yes.
• 4:18
  There's no, if you are writing, you are a writer.
• 4:21
  And even if you're not writing, but feel called to be a writer.
• 4:24
  Yeah.
• 4:24
  You're a writer.
• 4:25
  You are a writer.
• 4:26
  Sorry.
• 4:26
  There's, there's all those voices that are in your head, like not good enough, all that stuff.
• 4:32
  Who do I think I am to tell this story that keep us from doing it, but what I've noticed is.
• 4:39
  That it really becomes a weight on those people.
• 4:42
  It drags them down.
• 4:43
  Yeah.
• 4:44
  I've felt that myself, and I'm sure you have.
• 4:46
  Yeah, I have too.
• 4:47
  It keeps them from kind of not just being able to be creative in other ways, but like almost from living a full life.
• 4:54
  I don't mean to pull anybody down, like if you're not writing, you're not living a full life.
• 4:58
  That's not what I mean.
• 5:00
  It's just, it becomes this, this obstacle that's in your way and it's a page, it feels called to do it, and you can't answer the call.
• 5:08
  Yeah.
• 5:08
  Yeah.
• 5:09
  And you're, you're keeping yourself from doing it.
• 5:12
  Yeah.
• 5:12
  And you know, I have the perfect example of this with I, which I've shared a lot and I know she, I won't name her, but it, I know she's okay talking about it, is I have a long-term client who she is in her early.
• 5:27
  Sixties and she has had a story in her mind, or the characters at least, and their backstories for 30 years.
• 5:36
  Wow.
• 5:37
  30 years.
• 5:38
  And you hear that so often.
• 5:39
  Yeah.
• 5:39
  I mean, thirties.
• 5:41
  Thirties a lot, but yeah.
• 5:42
  Yeah.
• 5:42
  A decade is is not that uncommon.
• 5:45
  Yeah.
• 5:45
  These characters were living rent free in her head and she didn't know what to do with them, and she started and stopped and started and stopped a lot during those years.
• 5:55
  And they grew with her and aged with her, like they were really young when she was younger, and then they became middle aged people when she was, I mean, love that.
• 6:05
  It's such an interesting story.
• 6:07
  And she, uh, I met her because I was teaching a class in my community and she came and.
• 6:13
  She was like, I have to get this out of my brain.
• 6:17
  I have to, I have to let them out.
• 6:20
  And so she's just kind of a classic example of why this, it, it just warms my heart to see people actually, whatever their intentions are at the end of the day, like if they want it to be published or whatever, I, whatever is fine with me, I just want them to get it out of their heart.
• 6:41
  Out of their head onto the page.
• 6:43
  Absolutely.
• 6:43
  And you don't know.
• 6:44
  I mean, yes, maybe your intention is to get that big book deal.
• 6:49
  And they do have clients that do that, but there's other people who don't have that.
• 6:54
  And, and just their lives change and that weight is lifted and they have done the thing.
• 7:00
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:00
  Is not being able to get started is that writer's block.
• 7:04
  Like, what do you think?
• 7:05
  Oh, is that the same thing as when people say, I mean, not Hollywood's version of writer's block, where you're banging your head on the table, staring at the blank page, and then one day the light bulb goes off and you write your opus?
• 7:18
  Yeah.
• 7:18
  Like not that, but like, is that what we call writer's block is not getting started?
• 7:25
  I don't, you know, I have kind of complicated feelings about writer's block and I might not articulate that, articulate it very well.
• 7:33
  I think everybody's so different.
• 7:35
  I say this a lot, there's no right way to do this thing called writing, and so there's really only your way, and if part of your process is to not write for a while and then come back to it when you're ready, like.
• 7:51
  Maybe you give yourself grace around that.
• 7:53
  So I don't, I don't really know what, I don't think I can personally define writer's block.
• 7:58
  However, I will say that about three years ago I started writing a second middle grade novel, and I was working with a book coach.
• 8:09
  I was doing all the things.
• 8:10
  I had it all planned out and I started getting into the writing and.
• 8:16
  I, I keep saying I broke myself.
• 8:19
  I heard you say that.
• 8:21
  Which is like about more than one thing actually.
• 8:23
  But yeah, I, I broke myself as a writer.
• 8:25
  Like, I, I literally didn't write for a year and a half, almost two years, and it was weighing on me that I wasn't writing.
• 8:35
  I didn't know if eventually I'd go back to that project.
• 8:38
  It wasn't the project, it wasn't the coach.
• 8:40
  Like she's a dear friend and I.
• 8:42
  It was all fine.
• 8:44
  The process, it's just something about forcing that particular story out of me wasn't working.
• 8:50
  It wasn't working, and I, all of the noise came into my head and so for me, I felt very blocked.
• 8:57
  I think that was, I.
• 8:59
  I was blocked, I was broken.
• 9:01
  However you wanna write it or say it, but yeah, I just think it's different for everyone and I'm not sure that not being able to get started is the same.
• 9:10
  It might be, yeah, I think it all comes from the same place, but there's no like one definition, you're right.
• 9:17
  Everything is, is different.
• 9:18
  And, and I've, you know, I like to ask this question just 'cause it's so related to the topic because people are always like, Hey, do you wanna talk about writer's block and.
• 9:27
  I don't love talking about it because I think it's, it's, you know, there's people that say it's a myth, it doesn't exist, but there are people who aren't writing or can't get started and so that's real.
• 9:38
  I think writer's block in general is just this catchall phrase for all the reasons why you might not be writing and getting deeper and diagnosing what it is for you is, is what matters.
• 9:51
  Yeah.
• 9:52
  Right.
• 9:52
  And I will say that what got me out of that period.
• 9:56
  Was not to put pressure on myself about any particular project.
• 10:01
  But just to start to practice a practice thinking of writing with some playfulness and some curiosity rather than deadlines and expectations.
• 10:15
  Yeah, I love that.
• 10:16
  And I mean, what I've found as well is there's always a good and real, not imaginary reason why you're not writing.
• 10:25
  If you can get to the bottom of that.
• 10:27
  You can probably solve that for a lot of writers.
• 10:31
  It's that they don't know or they haven't given themselves enough skills to progress.
• 10:36
  And I'm sure that wasn't it for you, but there's other reasons.
• 10:39
  But sometimes, and if you're listening to this podcast trying to figure out this thing called writing, you know, you're doing what you need to do.
• 10:45
  You're giving yourself those skills.
• 10:47
  And so I don't know who needs to hear that today.
• 10:49
  Absolutely.
• 10:50
  Um, but thank you for sharing your story.
• 10:52
  I know that.
• 10:53
  You're also an avid flash fiction writer.
• 10:56
  Yeah.
• 10:56
  And I just love it when you talk about it.
• 10:58
  How is this different from writing a book or something else?
• 11:01
  Well, for you, so just to define it for people who don't know, flash is, some people say it's stories under a thousand words.
• 11:10
  Some people say the cutoff is 750 words.
• 11:13
  Then there's micro fiction, which some people say is under 300 words.
• 11:18
  But basically it's just very, very short stories, which.
• 11:23
  I think of them as like blink of an eye, like there is a larger story at Clay, but it's just like a snapshot of one moment in time that illustrates the larger story.
• 11:37
  So if you're interested, you can just Google flash fiction and a bazillion examples of good flash fictional pop up.
• 11:44
  So look at it as fun.
• 11:46
  What is it about that?
• 11:48
  Sort of method or doing flash fiction.
• 11:51
  Like I, I wish you guys could see stuff's face.
• 11:53
  'cause she's just like, I know.
• 11:55
  I love it.
• 11:55
  So giggling and smiling from ear to ear about the flash fiction, like what is it about that that helps you get started?
• 12:02
  Yeah.
• 12:03
  Well, because it isn't so big, it isn't so unwieldy as a book.
• 12:10
  Idea.
• 12:11
  It's a little easier to spend time write something, realize it's terrible, put it in a drawer, pull it out again a few weeks later and go, well, maybe I can take these two sentences and toss the rest.
• 12:25
  You know, I mean, it, it just is a little, it's, it's.
• 12:30
  It's less unwieldy than a larger project.
• 12:32
  And so there is that.
• 12:34
  I'm not saying it's easier 'cause it is.
• 12:36
  Most certainly not.
• 12:37
  It's just there's less moving, fewer moving parts.
• 12:40
  Right.
• 12:41
  I think that writing with brevity is, comes naturally to me.
• 12:47
  Even my middle grade novel that is published unspoken is fairly.
• 12:54
  It has fairly short chapters.
• 12:55
  They're kind of like snapshots and there's some poems in there and there's some text message exchanges in there.
• 13:02
  And I think that sort of like, I like the quote unquote white space on the page and that's what makes you a terrific, you know, person to do the business writing and your copy and the things that, your newsletter and all those things that go out.
• 13:16
  Or also that, yeah, that, that brevity that I think we all have a style of writing that we gravitate toward.
• 13:24
  And I've only recently returned to it and I'm calling it my first love, like my first boyfriend, you know, I've gone back to, no, I haven't, sorry, husband.
• 13:33
  Um, but anyway, it's, yeah, it's been really fun to return to it.
• 13:38
  And you know, it's interesting to think about it as.
• 13:41
  A way of maybe getting started even on a larger project.
• 13:45
  Even if you never intend to like try to submit flash fiction anywhere, have it published.
• 13:51
  It could be a really interesting exercise for getting unstuck or for exploring themes in your story or for even just sketching out a scene and seeing how.
• 14:07
  How few words you could write it in and really distill it down to what it's really about, and then, then flesh it out, you know, and add all of the details that you want to add to make it the larger story.
• 14:20
  So, I mean, I think they're very, they're very companion, I think.
• 14:25
  I think that novels, and I think all forms, all links are all very companionable.
• 14:30
  I mean, even.
• 14:31
  Poetry and novels or memoirs can be companionable, right?
• 14:35
  Yeah.
• 14:35
  Like you can play between genres and it'll just help you figure out what it is you're trying to say.
• 14:43
  And I just had this image of, it's like, it's like that flash fiction brought you back from that heaviness and, and helped you rediscover.
• 14:52
  I mean, yes.
• 14:52
  Your first love, your love of writing.
• 14:55
  And I was thinking about, speaking of husbands, my, my teenage kids when they were tweens, they loved this dance show and it was a tween show about this like dance troupe.
• 15:08
  And my husband would come into the room because it was very formulaic, it was cute, and there was lots of dance routines, and they were always breaking up with somebody or somebody's fighting with somebody.
• 15:18
  But in the end.
• 15:19
  They rediscovered their love of dance.
• 15:21
  And my husband used to walk in and they're watching it and he, it was called, I think it was called the Last Dance, I can't even remember what it's called.
• 15:27
  And he would come in and say, have they rediscovered their love of dance yet?
• 15:31
  Like that's all he knew about the show.
• 15:32
  And I'm like, yeah, just listening to you talk.
• 15:34
  It's like.
• 15:35
  Some of these techniques and, and writing flash fiction, I think for you has helped you rediscover your love of and wherever that leads is, wherever it leads.
• 15:44
  Yeah.
• 15:45
  I mean, I have ideas for book projects still.
• 15:47
  Who knows?
• 15:48
  I might even return to that one that I.
• 15:50
  I say broke me because I still love those characters and think that there's a story there, and so I, I am not ruling out what's happening in the future.
• 16:00
  I see like a story, an interconnected story collection.
• 16:05
  I just, I think that I really love to not put expectations of.
• 16:12
  Genre on myself.
• 16:13
  I think it's important to know the rules before you break the rules, but I think in the drafting part, in the beginning parts, I think allowing yourself to be playful and curious and what's gonna come out me today, what feels fun today and.
• 16:29
  Not to diminish the work of writing a book.
• 16:32
  Oh, it, I know that you know the work, you have finished the novel, you've worked with many people.
• 16:36
  It is the novel.
• 16:37
  It is work.
• 16:38
  There's, there's no doubt about that, but the practice, at least the practice of drafting it should feel.
• 16:47
  A little bit joyful, right.
• 16:49
  Pink.
• 16:49
  I love that.
• 16:50
  I love that For you and just knowing who you are and watching you smile right now, even talking about it is amazing.
• 16:57
  Okay, so what are some things that you can do, put your writing coach hat on as a writer, our listeners today, if they are feeling that heaviness and they are having trouble getting started mindset wise, what are, what are the things that you find help your clients?
• 17:15
  Do that?
• 17:16
  Well, it depends on what the trouble is.
• 17:19
  If the trouble, so I'll, I'll give you two answers, right?
• 17:23
  B and b and maybe a combination of both.
• 17:26
  If the problem is mindset, so if they're having a lot of trouble with the thoughts that they're having around not being good enough, or who am I kidding?
• 17:38
  To think that I can write a book or, oh, that hurts my heart, I know.
• 17:41
  Or that anyone's gonna care about this.
• 17:43
  All that noise that our brain tells us.
• 17:46
  Mean brain brains mean mean brain.
• 17:47
  I always say brains are weird.
• 17:49
  Brains are cool.
• 17:50
  Brains are amazing.
• 17:51
  Grades can be mean.
• 17:52
  Yeah.
• 17:53
  Especially that part, but it helps me a lot.
• 17:58
  And I always share this, I feel like I, I say this so much, people might get sick of hearing me say it.
• 18:03
  I haven't heard it, I don't think.
• 18:05
  Okay.
• 18:05
  Maybe I have.
• 18:06
  Maybe you have.
• 18:07
  You might be surprised.
• 18:08
  That's right.
• 18:09
  That really all of that is fear.
• 18:12
  Whether you call it the inner critic or whatever you call it, it's just fear, and that fear is coming from the part of your brain.
• 18:21
  That has not evolved since our ancestors were living in caves, and that part of our brain tells us to stay in the cave and to not make anybody mad in the group because then you'll get kicked out.
• 18:37
  And so stay safe.
• 18:39
  Stay safe.
• 18:39
  That's all that part of your brain wants you to do.
• 18:42
  And so I like to think of that now that now I'm gonna say, I mean, I'm 52 years old and it's literally taken me my entire life to get to this point of really understanding it.
• 18:54
  Like I understood it intellectually, but it's taken a long time for me to.
• 18:59
  Like deeply understand it, which is that when those thoughts come into your head, they're not telling you the truth.
• 19:07
  What they're telling you is how they think you should stay safe.
• 19:10
  And it's a part of you, but it's a part of you that's not, which is don't write right, don't write, it's too scary, it's too dangerous.
• 19:18
  You will be, you're leaving the cave and you're making people mad.
• 19:21
  All of that.
• 19:21
  Yeah.
• 19:22
  And so when I hear those thoughts come up in my head, I kind of go, okay.
• 19:29
  I see you, you're trying to keep me safe.
• 19:32
  Thank you.
• 19:33
  I don't need you right now.
• 19:35
  And just sort of let them be there.
• 19:39
  I, I really don't like some of the language around the inner critic, sometimes on the internet and in writing books because it's like vanquish the inner critic and.
• 19:48
  Beat it up and get rid of it, and it's not ever gonna go away.
• 19:52
  It's part of you, it's part of your brain.
• 19:53
  So let it be there, but just don't, you don't have to listen to it.
• 19:57
  You can say, thank you, I see what you're doing.
• 20:00
  And it's, it's okay.
• 20:02
  It's like a small child, right?
• 20:04
  You're throwing a tantrum in the grocery aisle because you want the cookies.
• 20:08
  I'm not gonna buy you the cookies.
• 20:10
  I'm gonna pat you on the head and we're gonna go to the checkout line.
• 20:13
  It's kind of the same.
• 20:14
  I'm not, well, we're not gonna go to the checkout line with the cookies to be clear.
• 20:18
  Not the clear, but we're not gonna argue about it because you can't argue with that part.
• 20:22
  You can't, you can't argue with that.
• 20:23
  So we're just gonna.
• 20:25
  Go to the checkout line, we're gonna be quiet and in this case we're gonna, I hear you complaining that I shouldn't be writing, but I'm gonna do it anyway and it, everything's gonna be fine.
• 20:33
  Yeah.
• 20:34
  And I just love that you are bringing true brain science into this.
• 20:39
  Yeah.
• 20:39
  Because it's the way that I teach as well when we're thinking about the reader and how they're reacting to your story.
• 20:45
  And you know, I guess I've never really thought about how our own brains work to resist or to sabotage us.
• 20:54
  And if you're listening to this episode because you are true and goodly stuck, maybe this is what's happening.
• 21:01
  And, and I love that.
• 21:03
  Yeah.
• 21:03
  That's part A, that to your answer, to your question about mindset.
• 21:08
  Yeah.
• 21:09
  So if, if that's, the problem is mindset, which nine times out of 10 it is.
• 21:14
  Sometimes the problem is not really being clear on what, what the story is.
• 21:20
  That's the other issue.
• 21:21
  And so that can generate a lot of doubt as well, and can contribute to the mindset problems.
• 21:27
  And so if that's the problem, I talk about the ground, I call it the groundwork, and it's really three things.
• 21:33
  So what is it that you're trying to say?
• 21:36
  What's the premise?
• 21:37
  What's the point you're trying to make about the world?
• 21:39
  How is your character?
• 21:42
  Going to start and end the story.
• 21:44
  Like how are they going to change from the beginning to the end?
• 21:47
  Absolutely.
• 21:48
  And if that's, if you're writing about your own life, that's you, you're the character, the main character coming off that main character energy.
• 21:55
  Yeah.
• 21:55
  And you have to know, there has to be an evolution.
• 21:58
  It doesn't have to be huge, but there has to be some sort of change.
• 22:02
  And so figuring that out and then maybe choosing a few, I don't know, I say three to five, but it doesn't really matter.
• 22:11
  Kind of turning point scenes where, and you don't have to know all the details, but where is the character or you, if you're writing a memoir, going to bump up against things that are challenging your beliefs about yourself or the characters believing about themselves that are going to produce that evolution.
• 22:32
  So those are the three things that I work through with people and just doing that little bit of work.
• 22:38
  'cause really it's not, it's not that much.
• 22:41
  It's like you're not, you're not writing, you're writing bullet points and answering questions.
• 22:44
  Right.
• 22:44
  And it's brainstorming and it's not a necessarily a lot of outlining unless that works for you.
• 22:50
  I don't force that on people unless they, they want to plot out the entire book.
• 22:56
  But just having that sense of clarity, it gives you some targets to write toward.
• 23:01
  Which feels a lot more manageable than just a giant story with so many words and you don't know where to start.
• 23:11
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:12
  Okay.
• 23:13
  This is amazing.
• 23:14
  So we've talked about mindset wise and, and story-wise, how to get going.
• 23:19
  That's kind of the one time thing in getting started, but you were also talking at the beginning about how do you sit down every time to write, and if that's your issue, what are some things that you found help you help your clients to get started?
• 23:33
  I mean, even if it's not that we're not, you know, we're not afraid to start book or the flash fiction or whatever we're choosing.
• 23:41
  Why don't we do it again and again and again?
• 23:44
  Right, and I mean it's, it's kind of like going to the gym, right?
• 23:48
  If, or whatever.
• 23:50
  It's like sometimes you not My favorite ballet example, not my favorite, not my favorite either, but let's just use it in as an example.
• 23:58
  Sometimes you're really like, excited to go or you're feeling pumped or you're like.
• 24:03
  I'm feeling lots of energy and sometimes you're like, oh my gosh, I have to drag myself to the gym and I don't wanna go.
• 24:09
  And this is no different.
• 24:10
  Just like anything else.
• 24:11
  So I think the first thing is we like to have gym.
• 24:15
  Well, I know.
• 24:16
  Well, I like to have written.
• 24:17
  Yeah.
• 24:18
  So I like to have written, but we gotta do the writing.
• 24:21
  Yeah.
• 24:21
  To have written.
• 24:22
  Yeah.
• 24:22
  So I think the first step is giving yourself grace around that.
• 24:25
  But some days are gonna be easier than others and some days it won't happen.
• 24:29
  And beating yourself up about it not happening is.
• 24:32
  Really only gonna make the whole thing harder, so.
• 24:35
  That's the first thing.
• 24:37
  And then I talk to people about setting up little rituals.
• 24:41
  Now I use that word, and it might sound a little woowoo, but bear with me for a second because a little woo woo.
• 24:47
  I'm a little woo too.
• 24:47
  Just a little.
• 24:48
  Just a little bit.
• 24:49
  Yeah.
• 24:49
  I might be more woo woo than you probably, but most people are, I'm trying to be the woo.
• 24:55
  Yeah, and And I'm not the woowoo.
• 24:57
  Right, right.
• 24:58
  Yeah.
• 24:58
  A little bit of woo is okay.
• 25:00
  That's right.
• 25:00
  So sensory stuff helps a lot with our brains like.
• 25:05
  We can Now, brain science is not what, you know.
• 25:08
  It's not, no, it's not.
• 25:09
  It's, and we know that sensory things can trigger things in your brain.
• 25:14
  So if you associate like pouring yourself a certain cup of tea that you really like the smell of and the taste of, and you that you only have it when you're writing, you know, that becomes like a draw.
• 25:27
  Like, ooh, it's a treat now that I get to have, 'cause I'm sitting down to write.
• 25:32
  So there's that.
• 25:32
  Candles can be the same.
• 25:34
  I use an Oracle card deck.
• 25:37
  I told you that's more woowoo than you.
• 25:39
  I love it, but I'm not super, like, I don't even own an Oracle card deck, but now I wanna go to your office and get my cards read or something.
• 25:46
  I don't even know if that's know how to read them.
• 25:47
  I just pull one and I read the description in the little guide and I'm like, okay.
• 25:52
  And, and that's it.
• 25:54
  But that's part of my little, like, okay, my brain goes now.
• 25:58
  Now we're, this is our writing time.
• 26:00
  Now we're, yeah.
• 26:00
  Cool.
• 26:00
  So focus, so there's that.
• 26:02
  I think.
• 26:03
  Those are just my examples.
• 26:05
  I think that you, each of you listening can come up with things that work for you, but I think it's make it the same.
• 26:12
  Yeah.
• 26:13
  Make it the same every time.
• 26:15
  It's Pavlov's song, right?
• 26:16
  Yeah.
• 26:16
  Like ring the bell.
• 26:17
  Yeah.
• 26:18
  Sorry.
• 26:18
  I'm Canadian.
• 26:19
  I'm gonna sing a song that, yeah, maybe you don't all know know, but it's Ring a bell and I'll salivate and how'd you like that?
• 26:27
  Alright.
• 26:28
  Tell me in the comments who sings it?
• 26:29
  'cause if you're Canadian, you know it.
• 26:30
  Yeah, I do not.
• 26:32
  So anyway.
• 26:33
  Yeah, so just make it a, make it a treat.
• 26:37
  Like do things for yourself.
• 26:38
  Have like a special cozy blanket that you put over your lap when you're right.
• 26:43
  I mean, it could be literally anything.
• 26:45
  So that's, yeah, I think that's one thing.
• 26:48
  I actually, this year I bought myself a giant laminated wall calendar, so it has all the months on one sheet you told me about this and I actually need a snapshot of that.
• 27:00
  Okay.
• 27:00
  By by, you're gonna send it to you?
• 27:02
  Yeah, I'll send it to you.
• 27:03
  Okay.
• 27:03
  So I, if it's the squares are tiny, the poster's huge, but the squares are tiny.
• 27:08
  'cause I'll talk on 365.
• 27:09
  Yeah.
• 27:09
  Or so.
• 27:10
  I put, um, a little dry erase star on.
• 27:14
  Every time I write I give myself a literal star.
• 27:19
  Why is it not permanent?
• 27:20
  Why, why would you have erase?
• 27:22
  That only exists?
• 27:23
  Or is it like a, it's a dry erase.
• 27:25
  So I'm gonna erase it and start.
• 27:26
  Can you use it next to, yeah.
• 27:27
  Oh, okay.
• 27:28
  I thought it was like a 20, 20 a five and I was confused about the driver.
• 27:31
  So I look up there and I see even if like last week I only wrote one day'cause I wasn't feeling very well and I just didn't have good energy.
• 27:41
  And so, and there was, but there was one star up there and I was like, at least I wrote on Monday, you know, and that felt good.
• 27:49
  It's like.
• 27:50
  Rewarding yourself in ways that work for you and everybody's different again.
• 27:55
  So my little tricks might not work for you, although you're welcome to borrow them if you'd like.
• 27:59
  Okay.
• 28:00
  This is like the most amazing segue ever and Steph hasn't seen my questions into the next question, which I did not prep you for.
• 28:07
  Great.
• 28:08
  So you came from teaching.
• 28:10
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:11
  And, and I love, love, love working with writers, and many of us come, it's like the only profession that we come to from other places and all of our skills and knowledge is what makes our writing special.
• 28:26
  So what skills and advice did you take with you, did you bring with you as a teacher?
• 28:34
  I mean.
• 28:34
  Gold stars and Wallers.
• 28:36
  It is like the perfect, you already answered the question Post-its and all of those things post.
• 28:40
  Yeah.
• 28:41
  What else do you feel like that prepared you for that you wouldn't have if you hadn't been a teacher first?
• 28:47
  Yeah.
• 28:48
  You know, it's really funny because I'm one of those people that has known that writing was important to me since I was a kid.
• 28:55
  And so when I went into teaching, I made it important for the kids too.
• 29:00
  I was an elementary school teacher, so I was working with younger kids.
• 29:04
  And, you know, writing time was a safe space.
• 29:09
  It was really like, I don't know about you, but when I learned writing in school, it was not creative.
• 29:16
  It was, we're all going to write about this plant or whatever, you know, it was, it just wasn't, there wasn't space to kind of explore our own ideas.
• 29:28
  And I thought, I mean, I didn't co, I didn't invent this.
• 29:30
  It's a whole school of thought for teaching writing, but.
• 29:35
  I very much, you know, would give them a skill to consider.
• 29:39
  Their writing.
• 29:40
  Writing, and then they would go off and work on whatever they were working on and I would try to get around to as many of them as I could in a day and check in and like guide them in what they were actually practicing.
• 29:52
  I think that what that.
• 29:55
  Gave me was the realization that I wasn't treating myself the way I was treating my students.
• 30:00
  Oh, right.
• 30:02
  And so, you know, I wrote off and on while I was teaching.
• 30:05
  I taught for 14 years or something like that before I left the classroom.
• 30:10
  During that time, I kind of wrote off and on, like it took the occasional writing class or whatever and would.
• 30:15
  Have motivation and then it would peter out.
• 30:18
  'cause I was busy and, and I, yeah.
• 30:20
  I just realized I wasn't giving myself the same grace and encouragement and space that I was giving my students.
• 30:27
  And I think that that's, I.
• 30:30
  That goes for a lot of us.
• 30:31
  Like if we're parents, are we giving ourselves the same space we give our kids?
• 30:36
  Definitely not.
• 30:37
  Definitely not right.
• 30:38
  Or other loved ones.
• 30:40
  Are we talking to ourselves the same way we're talking to them?
• 30:43
  I mean, that's, that's an adage that I.
• 30:46
  Like has been totally overused, but you treat yourself worse than you treat other people.
• 30:51
  And why is that?
• 30:52
  Which is funny 'cause it's like the opposite of treat others the way that you wanna be treated.
• 30:56
  Right?
• 30:56
  It's like we don't actually treat ourselves that well.
• 30:58
  No, we don't treat it like it's like the opposite.
• 31:01
  I know.
• 31:01
  Yeah.
• 31:02
  It's, so I think that's an interesting question and I'm gonna think about it more, but I, I think that's probably the biggest thing that I took from.
• 31:11
  That I reflected on once I left the classroom.
• 31:15
  I, when I left the classroom, I was about maybe two thirds of the way through my first draft of my book.
• 31:21
  And so, and I, when I left, I knew that would be the next thing that I did.
• 31:26
  Yeah, I had this space.
• 31:27
  You had to be able to do that.
• 31:28
  And so I dove into that and I, I think that was really when I realized, oh, I need to, I need to be nicer to myself about this, or it's never gonna get done.
• 31:38
  Yeah.
• 31:38
  You know?
• 31:39
  Yeah.
• 31:39
  But thank you.
• 31:40
  I know it's, it's kind of a weird thing that we don't think about, but that as writers, we talk about our own unique voice and our own unique experiences.
• 31:48
  Give yourself credit for what the hell you did before.
• 31:52
  Yeah.
• 31:53
  You wanted to be a writer or what you're doing now.
• 31:56
  All of it matters, and you don't need to hide that piece of yourself.
• 31:59
  In fact, that's going to make you resilient and make you stronger and make you different.
• 32:04
  Yeah.
• 32:05
  Yeah.
• 32:05
  Oh, thank you.
• 32:07
  Okay, so these are my fun questions that I like to ask all the writers that come on the show, unless I forget, but.
• 32:14
  How long did it take you to write that first book?
• 32:17
  Okay, so like I said, I started it while I was full-time teaching.
• 32:21
  So it was very slow going and full-time parenting and full-time parenting.
• 32:25
  'cause I had elementary aged kids too.
• 32:27
  So that was a whole thing.
• 32:29
  So I would say that I worked on the draft for about two years while I was teaching full-time and, and indefinite spurts.
• 32:39
  It was not.
• 32:40
  It was not every day or anything close to every day.
• 32:43
  And then after I left the classroom, because I had more time, I worked on it pretty steadily.
• 32:50
  So that was in 2017 and it came out, that was June of 2017 when I left the classroom.
• 32:57
  And the book came out in late February of 2020, which was delightful.
• 33:01
  Great timing.
• 33:02
  Great timing.
• 33:03
  But so yeah, it took me five years.
• 33:06
  And it's not a long, and mine was four and a half.
• 33:08
  But like, I love asking that question because I think, you know, we tout, I've asked it of some guests who said one month or something, and, and, and that does happen too.
• 33:19
  But we tend to focus on that and everybody's journey is different step.
• 33:24
  What was your first big break where you're like, all right, I'm a writer.
• 33:30
  This is, this is, this is what I'm at.
• 33:32
  Yeah.
• 33:33
  Like what was it?
• 33:34
  So I guess my oldest was a baby.
• 33:37
  My youngest wasn't born yet.
• 33:39
  I was teaching halftime, so I was home with her half the day and teaching half the day.
• 33:45
  And during that time I was like, I'm gonna get back into writing because having a baby and a job is not enough to do.
• 33:53
  I did the same thing.
• 33:55
  I did the same thing when my last child was born on mat leave, and I was like, this is my last mat leave.
• 34:00
  I am never doing this again.
• 34:02
  Now I better get it done.
• 34:03
  Right.
• 34:04
  Right.
• 34:05
  So I took a little writing class.
• 34:07
  It was actually a writing class meant for moms, and it was focused on.
• 34:13
  Essay writing, which I was really into.
• 34:15
  Then I also write some flash nonfiction 'cause I really, I like to delve the depths of my life and put 'em all over the page.
• 34:24
  So it was about essay writing and I wrote an essay.
• 34:28
  Uh, it was a totally lighthearted essay about my daughter on a road trip, or us trying to ridiculously parent a toddler on a long road trip to a wedding.
• 34:39
  And it was not my usual thing because I'm a, I'm very moody and emotional in my writing.
• 34:46
  No, yeah.
• 34:47
  It gets a little dark and so I believe that.
• 34:50
  I believe that.
• 34:51
  Yeah.
• 34:51
  And so this was pretty lighthearted, but it was the first thing I ever wrote that got published and my husband, it was kind of online magazine, and this is in the late two thousands.
• 35:04
  So it was like 2000.
• 35:06
  Seven maybe, and he printed it out so it has like the ads and all the things, and he put it in a frame and hung it on the wall, which I still have.
• 35:16
  It was very delight, and that was the moment that was kind of, I was like, that's my name.
• 35:21
  I mean, I had been like on the school paper and whatever, so I had seen my name in a byline before, but that was the first time I was like.
• 35:29
  Somebody actually wanted to publish that and thought it was good enough to go, you know, it's not the best thing I ever wrote, but it just, it was the first time I was like, oh, maybe what I write can appeal to other people in a way I hadn't expected.
• 35:47
  Oh.
• 35:47
  So, yeah, I love it.
• 35:49
  Okay.
• 35:50
  What's your best running advice for new writers?
• 35:53
  Just starting out, if you were to go back, what would you have wanted to know?
• 35:58
  I'm gonna sound like a broken record, but I think that the spirit of curiosity and playfulness and not taking it quite so seriously, and again, this is such a new.
• 36:18
  Revelation for me is such a new understanding that I, I love it for you though.
• 36:22
  It fits me so well.
• 36:24
  Yeah.
• 36:24
  I haven't fully wrapped my brain around it yet, but I'm just trying to live with it and experience it.
• 36:30
  Just being okay with all of it.
• 36:34
  Being okay with the writing, coming out and sounding terrible.
• 36:37
  Being okay with being rejected, being okay with missing a day of writing that you expected to write.
• 36:44
  Being okay with all of it, being part of the process, and just not getting yourself so tangled up in knots about it because.
• 36:54
  When we do that, it just creates a bigger mindset issue and then we have to deal with that bigger mindset issue and then we start thinking that it's all true and we never write anything.
• 37:06
  So yeah, I mean, you're feeling called to be creative so that curiosity and that playfulness is is a really good way to go about calling in your creativity.
• 37:20
  Do you wanna tell us a little bit about what you're doing as a writing coach?
• 37:24
  Where can we find you?
• 37:26
  Yeah, so the best place to find me, well, I'll give you a couple of places on my website, which is stephanie dole.com, which you can find the spelling for that I'm sure the show, there'll be in the show notes.
• 37:38
  There is a free resources page.
• 37:40
  That's a great place to go just to get some free things that I have created over the past few years that might help you on your, on your journey.
• 37:49
  And then I'm really active right now on substack.
• 37:52
  And so whether or not you yourself have an account on substack, you can still subscribe to things on there.
• 38:00
  What will we get if we subscribe to your substack?
• 38:02
  Yeah, so I mean, I get it.
• 38:03
  I love it.
• 38:03
  Yeah, so I have free, it's kind of like a blog, so there's free blog posts, they come to your email.
• 38:09
  Also on there, I offer monthly workshops on First Draft craft.
• 38:14
  I have a monthly gathering of writers where we literally just.
• 38:19
  Sit for an hour on Zoom and talk about this thing that we love to do.
• 38:23
  We have a loose topic every month, but it's just conversation and it's delightful.
• 38:28
  I have some new things coming this year that I'm super excited about, so that's a great place to find me.
• 38:33
  It's where most of my stuff is happening right now.
• 38:35
  I also work one-on-one with people, so if you're curious about that, you can just head to my website if you're curious and playful.
• 38:42
  If you're curious and playful about that.
• 38:44
  I would love to be curious and playful with you.
• 38:46
  So amazing.
• 38:47
  Thank you so much for being here today stuff.
• 38:50
  You're welcome.
• 38:50
  I loved it.
• 38:51
  Thanks.
• 38:59
  Thanks for tuning in to show.
• 39:00
  No.
• 39:01
  Tell Writing with me, Suzy Vadori.
• 39:03
  How can continue to bring you the straight goods for that book you're writing or planning to write?
• 39:08
  Please consider subscribing to this podcast and leaving a review on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever else you're listening.
• 39:15
  Also, visit susie Vadori.com/newsletter to hop on my weekly inspired writing newsletter list where you'll stay inspired and be the first to know about upcoming training events and writing courses that happen in my community.
• 39:30
  If you're feeling brave, check the show notes and send us a page of your writing that isn't quite where you want it to be yet for our notes.
• 39:37
  Page review episodes.
• 39:39
  Remember that book and your writing is going to open doors that you haven't even thought of yet, and I can't wait to help you make it the absolute best you're feeling called to write that book.
• 39:52
  Keep going, and I'm gonna be right here cheering you on.
• 39:55
  See you again next week.