Latest / Brian Thomas / The "Smither-vent" - Episode 160 - Pray for Hamilton County and Ohio

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The "Smither-vent" - Episode 160 - Pray for Hamilton County and Ohio · Brian Thomas

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Speaker 1: Krc the talk station 720.
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Speaker 2: 55 krc the talk station it being a monday it
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Speaker 2: is that time of week i get the benefit we
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Speaker 2: all get the benefit of christopher smith and former vice
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Speaker 2: mayor of the city of cincinnati christopher smithman joins the
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Speaker 2: program every week to vent his spleen so we call
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Speaker 2: it the smith event welcome back christopher i really appreciate
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Speaker 2: you joining the show especially on days like today when
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Speaker 2: i feel like i'm firing on about Half of my
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Speaker 2: available cylinders. Good to have you here, brother.
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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me on. Well, good news,
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Speaker 3: I'm firing on all of them. Good. I'm honored to
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Speaker 3: pull you through for 40 minutes or so.
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Speaker 2: Amen.
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Speaker 3: First, let me start off and congratulate all those people
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Speaker 3: who were elected last Tuesday. I believe deeply in our
0:49
Speaker 3: country and democracy and You know, the outcome of our elections,
0:54
Speaker 3: that's what makes our country special and great. And you
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Speaker 3: won't see me out protesting or saying terrible things about elections.
1:07
Speaker 3: We had the election and the election is over. It's
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Speaker 3: now time for governing. And we're going to get a
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Speaker 3: chance to see when I say elections have consequences, what
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Speaker 3: that governing looks like. I think the only pointed thing
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Speaker 3: I'll say about the election is my disappointment on those
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Speaker 3: who were registered to vote in the show. I don't
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Speaker 3: understand that. I mean, there's so many sacrifices and so
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Speaker 3: many reasons why an American would get up and participate
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Speaker 3: and not say they were busy or too busy. There's
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Speaker 3: an entire month that people can show up and vote.
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Speaker 3: in Hamilton County in particular, but across the entire state.
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Speaker 3: And what I find, Brian, in my spleen vent is
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Speaker 3: those are the people that complain the most, those who
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Speaker 3: don't show. And so now something happens, they don't like it,
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Speaker 3: and they're holding the corner in a restaurant, in a bar,
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Speaker 3: and they're just complaining. And if you pulled up their registration,
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Speaker 3: it doesn't tell us who they voted for, but we
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Speaker 3: can tell because it's public information. whether they participated in
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Speaker 3: the election or not. And so I share with people
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Speaker 3: that even when you don't participate, it's a vote. It's
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Speaker 3: a vote. It's a vote on an outcome that you
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Speaker 3: can't complain about or that you can't say you have
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Speaker 3: an opinion about. And so that's part of my spleen
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Speaker 3: vent this morning. Those who didn't vote, I'm disappointed. And
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Speaker 3: I hope that they change that in the next election
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Speaker 3: two years from now.
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Speaker 2: Well, I saw Signal 99's post, and she obviously is very,
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Speaker 2: very stressed about the outcome of the election, most notably
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Speaker 2: here in Hamilton County with the judicial votes. And she
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Speaker 2: pointed out, and I've got to take her at her
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Speaker 2: word because she typically is very accurate, 44% of registered
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Speaker 2: voters in Hamilton County did not vote. 44%, which translates
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Speaker 2: to 270,958 votes that were not cast at all.
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Speaker 3: Unbelievable. It's It's shocking, and based on the amount of
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Speaker 3: advertising about the midterm election, I think it's the most expensive, right?
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Speaker 3: I'm not going to even say midterm. I'm saying most
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Speaker 3: expensive election in our history, whether it was presidential or not.
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Speaker 3: So the money was spent, the advertising, whether it was
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Speaker 3: billboards or whether it was literature that people got in
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Speaker 3: their mailboxes, if you were a registered voter, phone calls,
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Speaker 3: text messages. Radio, TV, I mean, you could not miss
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Speaker 3: that there was a midterm election, right? And so I
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Speaker 3: share with Signal 99 my frustration. Let me give my
4:00
Speaker 3: love out to people like Jim Kiefer, you know, who
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Speaker 3: has fought and continues to fight, spending a lot of
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Speaker 3: his time trying to educate and get people out to
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Speaker 3: participate in the political process. And if you don't have
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Speaker 3: people like Jim Kiefer folding the line. I don't know
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Speaker 3: what would happen to politics in Hamilton County, but he
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Speaker 3: really makes a difference, and there are lots of people
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Speaker 3: that are like him that fought very hard, and it
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Speaker 3: hurts them. It disappoints them greatly when you don't get
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Speaker 3: that kind of outcome, meaning so many people didn't show
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Speaker 3: up and even take the time to cast a vote. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I talked to Josh Gerth a day after, a matter
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Speaker 2: of fact, he was at Anderson pub for the listener
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Speaker 2: lunch and he, he took it personally. You could see
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Speaker 2: the look in his face and his comments. It just,
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Speaker 2: just in, it was like shell shock look on his
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Speaker 2: face and, you know, took it very personally, but I
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Speaker 2: know he worked very hard to try to get people out,
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Speaker 2: but you know, I see people blaming Alex Chiantafilo in
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Speaker 2: the state of Ohio as well. But when I step
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Speaker 2: back from Ohio and look across the carnage, I can
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Speaker 2: call it for the rest of the country, at least
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Speaker 2: for conservatism, uh, It wasn't just Ohio. We weren't just
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Speaker 2: an outlier. Very, very blue shift, but it happened all
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Speaker 2: over the place. I'm kind of wondering where blame is
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Speaker 2: properly laid on that, and all I can say is
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Speaker 2: people didn't go to vote. Let's bring Christopher back. I
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Speaker 2: know he's got more in his mind. It's 726 right
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Speaker 2: now at 55KRCD Talk Station. I got positive.
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Speaker 1: The Talk Station.
5:30
Speaker 2: 730 at 55KRCD Talk Station. Brian Thomas with Christopher Smith,
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Speaker 2: a former vice mayor of the city of Cincinnati. Smithervant
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Speaker 2: is what we're doing right now. Christopher, you have the mic,
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Speaker 2: my friend.
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Speaker 3: Brother, I'm going to get in front of the mayor's
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Speaker 3: state of the city. And I think we're going to
5:45
Speaker 3: hear his similar rhetoric that crime is down and that,
5:52
Speaker 3: you know, crime in his mind is measured by the
5:55
Speaker 3: number of murders that happen in our city, which is
5:59
Speaker 3: not true. And so there are all types of crimes.
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Speaker 3: that are happening across the city of Cincinnati. And some
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Speaker 3: of those crimes we know are not even being reported.
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Speaker 3: So things like breaking ins on cars, or assaults, or robberies,
6:21
Speaker 3: or someone is shot, but they didn't die. And so
6:26
Speaker 3: notice how they never release the stats on ShotSpotter, which
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Speaker 3: When I was chair of law and public safety for
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Speaker 3: the city of Cincinnati, I was instrumental with the rest
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Speaker 3: of council and the mayor in implementing ShotSpotter, which they
6:43
Speaker 3: now want to get rid of. I understand why they
6:46
Speaker 3: want to get rid of it, because it allows them
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Speaker 3: to hide crime statistics. And so as you and I
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Speaker 3: have spoken, when you discharge a weapon, that is a crime.
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Speaker 3: And that is happening all over parts of our 52 neighborhoods.
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Speaker 3: which has people living in fear. These aren't firecrackers. You
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Speaker 3: and I know the difference when someone is discharging a weapon.
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Speaker 3: So I don't know, I guess I get why the
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Speaker 3: mayor continues to tell everybody that it's our perception. But
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Speaker 3: when you see OTR shots, you see the beat down
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Speaker 3: that happened to one of our Cincinnati police officers Halloween
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Speaker 3: in the Clifton area. A man being a police officer
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Speaker 3: in uniform with a weapon being kicked in the head,
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Speaker 3: punched in the face. He's on the ground. That shows
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Speaker 3: you what I think the Gotham City of Cincinnati, that direction.
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Speaker 3: I've never seen anything like that, Brian Thomas, in all
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Speaker 3: of my years. You would never tell me that I
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Speaker 3: would see an officer down on the ground being videotaped
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Speaker 3: by juveniles. being kicked and punched in the face. What
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Speaker 3: does that mean for everyday people that live in the
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Speaker 3: city of Cincinnati or those who want to visit? Meaning
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Speaker 3: if you're willing to punch a cop and beat him
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Speaker 3: when he's on the ground with a gun, it means
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Speaker 3: that I'm not safe, Brian Thomas. I'm not safe. I
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Speaker 3: knew when I was a kid, if a uniformed officer
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Speaker 3: walked up and said, young man, what are you doing here?
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Speaker 3: I tell him my name. I tell him what I'm
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Speaker 3: doing there. This disrespect. But I don't even want to
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Speaker 3: put beating up an officer in that bucket. That's something
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Speaker 3: that's at a whole other level. And these teen takeovers
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Speaker 3: that are happening across the country, not just in the
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Speaker 3: city of Cincinnati, those things will continue to accelerate. My
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Speaker 3: point is, when I hear the mayor continue to misinform
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Speaker 3: the public about crime, it just saddens me because it
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Speaker 3: just creates tension. a feeling of those who are living
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Speaker 3: in places like Avondale, a sense of despair, because you're
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Speaker 3: ultimately telling them what's going on in their daily lives
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Speaker 3: every day isn't true or isn't accurate. That's not fair
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Speaker 3: to those citizens that live in Avondale to say, man,
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Speaker 3: we had 50 shots this weekend. No, you really didn't.
9:21
Speaker 3: You know, that really didn't happen. Yeah, it did. I
9:24
Speaker 3: was laying on my floor in my living room with
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Speaker 3: all my children. We were all sleeping on the floor
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Speaker 3: because we were worried about being shot through the window
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Speaker 3: or through the door. So I'm very interested. I think
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Speaker 3: many people will listen to the mayor's state of the union,
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Speaker 3: and I think he's going to continue to push the
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Speaker 3: narrative that all of us are safe, crime is down,
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Speaker 3: we hired police officers, we're headed in the right direction,
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Speaker 3: and I just don't believe any of that.
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Speaker 2: Well, do you think the Cincinnati Police Department itself believes
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Speaker 2: any of that? I mean, they're facing this type of
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Speaker 2: violence each and every day. And the memo's been out
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Speaker 2: for quite some time, morale. in the Cincinnati Police Department,
10:01
Speaker 2: not exactly at its zenith, if you know what I mean.
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Speaker 2: Having a difficult time hiring officers, the contingency is down.
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Speaker 2: More and more people are pursuing, not even going through drop,
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Speaker 2: they're just quitting or going to take a position at
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Speaker 2: another police force if they can find one. But him
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Speaker 2: coming out and saying that, that crime is down, I'm
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Speaker 2: guessing another shot against the Cincinnati Police Department, who knows
10:23
Speaker 2: that that's just an outright lie.
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Speaker 3: That part that you brought there, and I don't know
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Speaker 3: if your listening audience appreciates your statement about drop. So
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Speaker 3: officers enter drop for eight years, and what Brian Thomas
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Speaker 3: is saying, that they're not finishing those eight years. They're
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Speaker 3: leaving in two or three. They're tired. And they're saying,
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Speaker 3: it's not even worth the deferred compensation over those eight years.
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Speaker 3: I'm out. I can go work for another organization, a
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Speaker 3: private organization, whether that's the Reds or whether that's the
10:57
Speaker 3: Bengals or whether it's FC, whatever. I can go work
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Speaker 3: for Western Southern. So they're not leaving the profession. They're
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Speaker 3: just walking away from being a Cincinnati fan. police officers.
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Speaker 3: So that is a very important point, Brian, because you're
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Speaker 3: talking about attrition. And so even though we brought on
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Speaker 3: 50 new officers, we will lose 50 new officers or
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Speaker 3: 50 old officers, excuse me, over the next year just
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Speaker 3: through attrition. Those officers will say, I can't take it.
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Speaker 3: And you're right. Every time the mayor says crime is down,
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Speaker 3: really what our cops are dealing with on a daily
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Speaker 3: basis is It just punches them in the face. And
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Speaker 3: let's not forget, our fire department's morale is also down.
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Speaker 3: It's not just police. It's police and fire. They don't
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Speaker 3: see the mayor. They don't see the city manager. And
11:49
Speaker 3: they are absolutely just heartbroken about a profession that they
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Speaker 3: love that has changed so much since your sister even retired.
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Speaker 3: And I thank her publicly for her service to the
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Speaker 3: Cincinnati Police Department.
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Speaker 2: I certainly appreciate that. Shout out to my sister. Don't
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Speaker 2: go away. More with Christopher Smitherman. It's 736 right now
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Speaker 2: at 55.
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Speaker 1: 55 KRZ, the talk station.
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Speaker 3: 740.
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Speaker 2: On a Monday, we'll continue the conversation with Christopher Smitherman.
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Speaker 2: During the Smith event this Monday, we got Money Monday
12:20
Speaker 2: coming up at the top of the hour. And then
12:22
Speaker 2: State Representative Adam Byrd is going to show up at
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Speaker 2: 830 to talk about the Well, the waning days of
12:26
Speaker 2: the supermajority here in Ohio with the House and Senate
12:28
Speaker 2: numbers changing after the election, what are they going to
12:31
Speaker 2: get done before the new Democrats are sworn in? In
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Speaker 2: the meantime, Christopher Smitherman, let's talk further. What else is
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Speaker 2: on your mind?
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Speaker 3: Brother, Chief Washington, and I'm going to continue to talk
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Speaker 3: about his case, is so explosive right now. And you're
12:48
Speaker 3: not going to hear a lot about it until the city...
12:53
Speaker 3: has to issue a judgment bond. This is what you
12:56
Speaker 3: do in order to pay for litigation. And so the conference,
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Speaker 3: meaning now that the appellate court 19-0 smacked down the city,
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Speaker 3: it goes back to Judge Cole. And it's my understanding
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Speaker 3: that they have their first conference today. And so the lawyers,
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Speaker 3: your lawyer, your beautiful wife is a lawyer. Everybody's going
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Speaker 3: to huddle up today back to Judge Cole. The city's
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Speaker 3: been appealing every decision that he's made and every decision
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Speaker 3: Judge Cole has communicated to the city has been upheld.
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Speaker 3: So now they've got to go back to daddy today.
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Speaker 3: And they've got to tell daddy you were right the
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Speaker 3: whole time. And every decision that you made, and those
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Speaker 3: decisions go like this. Chief Washington was wrongfully terminated. That
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Speaker 3: the city manager failed to listen to her legal counsel.
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Speaker 3: And she absolutely lied. Now, that is what the appellate
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Speaker 3: court has said. It has now been upheld. And the
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Speaker 3: only thing for the city to do is appeal this
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Speaker 3: case to the Supreme Court, which, by the way, they're
14:04
Speaker 3: not going to ever hear from a city manager who
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Speaker 3: refused to listen to her own legal counsel and who,
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Speaker 3: in writing from the court, said, you didn't tell the truth.
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Speaker 3: So now what's going to happen? Well, the city... Brian
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Speaker 3: has to make the decision on whether they're going to
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Speaker 3: go to trial or not. The trial is not on
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Speaker 3: the facts of the case, meaning the trial is not
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Speaker 3: about whether Chief Washington was wrongfully terminated. The trial is
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Speaker 3: about punitive damages. It's about what are you going to pay?
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Speaker 3: And so we're talking about $ 10 million settlement. If they
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Speaker 3: put 12 in the box, Brian Thomas, we're probably talking
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Speaker 3: $ 30 million. So the city better buckle up. Because imagine
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Speaker 3: if they take the court through the exercise of all
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Speaker 3: the disrespect, of all of the appeals they've made on
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Speaker 3: all this silliness, and the Chief Washington's lawyers come in
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Speaker 3: with a reasonable request. They reject that reasonable request and say, no,
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Speaker 3: we're going to put 12 in the box. And the
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Speaker 3: 12 in the box here from the city manager on
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Speaker 3: the stand that she didn't tell the truth, that it
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Speaker 3: was already a wrongful termination. What are they going to say?
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Speaker 3: The 12 in the box are going to say guilty.
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Speaker 3: And I would guarantee you that that judge is going
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Speaker 3: to uphold a massive settlement in order to teach the
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Speaker 3: city a lesson. You cannot do this ever again. So
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Speaker 3: we're talking $ 10 to $ 30 million. And right behind that
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Speaker 3: litigation is Chief Fiji, is the police department. And if
15:41
Speaker 3: people don't understand union lingo, it's called the Me Too clause.
15:46
Speaker 3: Look for Chief Fiji to say Me Too. If you're
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Speaker 3: going to give him $ 10 million, I'm looking for $ 10
15:51
Speaker 3: million for wrongful termination. So these are terrible decisions that
15:56
Speaker 3: taxpayers are going to have to fit this bill. And
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Speaker 3: I'm letting you know that you won't hear one word
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Speaker 3: of this from the mayor today in the State of
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Speaker 3: the Union address. The amount of litigation, the amounts that
16:10
Speaker 3: are facing, because guess what they want to do? Continue
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Speaker 3: to kick it down the road until they're out of
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Speaker 3: office and leave this mess. to the next mayor and
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Speaker 3: the next council to resolve.
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Speaker 2: Well, I doubt that they have enough time to do that.
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Speaker 2: I mean, it seems to me at this point, at
16:26
Speaker 2: least insofar as Washington is concerned, they're on the way
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Speaker 2: to having this thing resolved in at least fairly short
16:32
Speaker 2: order in the legal system.
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Speaker 3: I would agree. If a trial is set, look, dude,
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Speaker 3: this is your area. I hear this word, continuance, continuance, continuance.
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Speaker 3: I hope Judge Cole has a very short wick with
16:48
Speaker 3: the city today. Saddle up or saddle up. We're going
16:52
Speaker 3: to trial, and I'd like to see a trial before Christmas.
16:56
Speaker 3: I'd like everybody to be brought in over the holidays,
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Speaker 3: put 12 in the box. Let's get this thing over
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Speaker 3: and get a settlement. Guarantee you if that settlement is
17:05
Speaker 3: $ 30 million, the city will appeal it. But they're going
17:08
Speaker 3: to have to escrow those dollars through that appeal.
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Speaker 2: You mean a jury award? You mean a jury award
17:13
Speaker 2: of $ 30 million?
17:15
Speaker 1: Yes.
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Speaker 3: Yes. That's right. If they put 12 in the box,
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Speaker 3: I believe a jury is going to come back with
17:21
Speaker 3: a massive. Because remember, they have ruined this man's reputation.
17:26
Speaker 3: I mean, if you go out online and you see
17:28
Speaker 3: the things that were said, He has applied for at
17:30
Speaker 3: least 21 jobs, and he hasn't gotten any of those
17:33
Speaker 3: jobs based on what the city manager and what the
17:37
Speaker 3: city said in those fresh releases. So you've ruined his
17:40
Speaker 3: reputation on his ability to get a job. That's the
17:44
Speaker 3: big number. The big number isn't his pension, his drop,
17:47
Speaker 3: all of that. It's what are the punitive damages.
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Speaker 2: Well, he'll be, I presume, well taken care of financially.
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Speaker 2: Chief Washington isn't interested in getting the chief role back.
17:59
Speaker 2: Isn't Police Chief Fiji interested in being returned to police chief?
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Speaker 3: You're right. Chief Washington is not interested in being the
18:08
Speaker 3: police chief. I mean, the fire chief. Excuse me, the
18:12
Speaker 3: fire chief. He's going to be an excellent fire chief.
18:14
Speaker 3: He will be hired at some point. You are right
18:17
Speaker 3: that Chief Fiji, at least through the administrative hearing, is
18:20
Speaker 3: posturing that she'd like the job back. That's why you
18:23
Speaker 3: can't get rid of the interim. It's why you can't
18:25
Speaker 3: do a national search, because you're right in the middle
18:28
Speaker 3: of an administrative hearing, which is the administrative hearing they
18:31
Speaker 3: failed to give Chief Washington. So they learned from that,
18:35
Speaker 3: Brian Thomas. And so now they're going through the motions
18:38
Speaker 3: of the administrative hearing. I believe the city is going
18:40
Speaker 3: to decline. that we don't want you back, and then
18:44
Speaker 3: you'll see Chief Egy file a lawsuit against the city
18:47
Speaker 3: of Cincinnati for wrongful termination. And I don't know how
18:50
Speaker 3: that's going to all play out. And I agree with you,
18:53
Speaker 3: sometime next year, most likely Chief Washington's case will be resolved.
18:57
Speaker 3: I just want taxpayers to understand, this money is coming
19:01
Speaker 3: directly out of our pocket. What is most interesting about
19:04
Speaker 3: the Chief Washington case, I've never seen it before. The
19:08
Speaker 3: courts have said, that the city manager can be sued personally.
19:14
Speaker 3: So I've never seen that before, and I don't know
19:16
Speaker 3: how that's all going to play out, but I would
19:18
Speaker 3: tell you if I was a member of council, I
19:20
Speaker 3: would ask the city manager, you're going to have to
19:23
Speaker 3: get your own lawyer going forward here. We're not going
19:25
Speaker 3: to cover you here because what the courts have said
19:28
Speaker 3: is you acted outside of your job. And so the
19:32
Speaker 3: taxpayers are not responsible for providing a lawyer for the
19:37
Speaker 3: city manager. She's going to ask for one. Probably this
19:41
Speaker 3: weak city council and weak mayor will probably hold their
19:45
Speaker 3: hand and provide a lawyer for her, which I think
19:49
Speaker 3: is even illogical. But I think they will absolutely do
19:52
Speaker 3: that because corruption in government is still very real, Brian Thomas.
19:57
Speaker 2: It is indeed. And before we part, company, Christopher Smith,
19:59
Speaker 2: since you used to be the vice mayor of the
20:00
Speaker 2: city of Cincinnati and you already referred to the request
20:03
Speaker 2: that they would need to do to get legal fees.
20:05
Speaker 2: Who has the authority to enter into a settlement at
20:08
Speaker 2: any given level? I mean, who approves, okay, let's say
20:11
Speaker 2: they sit down and Washington's willing to accept, oh, pick
20:14
Speaker 2: a number, $ 10 million to settle it without having to
20:16
Speaker 2: go to trial. Who has to provide the authority for
20:18
Speaker 2: that settlement amount?
20:21
Speaker 3: The city solicitor's office has the ability to settle, but
20:25
Speaker 3: in a case like this, the protocol is that city
20:29
Speaker 3: council takes a vote on it because you're going to
20:33
Speaker 3: have to issue judgment bonds. I remember in the last
20:37
Speaker 3: budget they moved $ 9 million over for settlement. That's not
20:43
Speaker 3: going to be enough. But at the end of the day,
20:45
Speaker 3: when you have to issue those judgment bonds, meaning counsel
20:48
Speaker 3: has to vote on that because you're issuing debt. So
20:51
Speaker 3: whether it's an agreement on the settlement itself, Brian Thomas,
20:57
Speaker 3: or whether it's the issuance of the debt in order
21:00
Speaker 3: to pay Chief Washington, because what I think also happens
21:03
Speaker 3: in these cases is is his lawyers, meaning Chief Washington's lawyers,
21:08
Speaker 3: not only will they be compensated for the litigation, but
21:13
Speaker 3: they're also going to submit their legal fees. And I
21:16
Speaker 3: don't know what those legal fees are going to be,
21:18
Speaker 3: but on top of all of that, His lawyers are
21:20
Speaker 3: going to get their legal fees reimbursed. So this is
21:23
Speaker 3: going to be a massive, massive, massive settlement. And I
21:28
Speaker 3: want the public not to blame Chief Washington because if
21:31
Speaker 3: they take this thing to the Supreme Court, I don't
21:34
Speaker 3: know what those legal fees are going to ultimately be.
21:37
Speaker 3: Are they going to be $ 1 million, $ 2 million, $ 3 million?
21:39
Speaker 3: I mean, you're the lawyer. I don't know. But I
21:41
Speaker 3: just know that sounds very, very expensive to me. It is.
21:45
Speaker 2: Hundreds of thousands of dollars easily. Well, Christopher, popcorn's been
21:49
Speaker 2: out for a long time on this one, and let's
21:51
Speaker 2: hope it gets promptly resolved. And I'm very interested in
21:54
Speaker 2: seeing if and how much Cheryl Long is personally responsible
21:58
Speaker 2: for in this.
22:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, and me too, Brian Thomas. And people can follow
22:04
Speaker 3: me at Vote Smitherman, of course. I will continue to
22:07
Speaker 3: listen to your morning show. I want to thank you, Brian,
22:10
Speaker 3: for all of the wonderful work you did in this
22:13
Speaker 3: last election with providing information to voters. I'm serious, dude.
22:18
Speaker 3: I mean, I listen to your show. I wake up
22:20
Speaker 3: because I get to hear from the candidates themselves. So
22:23
Speaker 3: many debates didn't happen. So the only place I could
22:26
Speaker 3: get that kind of information was your show. Kudos to you,
22:29
Speaker 3: and thank you so much for everything you did.
22:31
Speaker 2: I wish it had mattered more, Christopher, but I certainly
22:33
Speaker 2: appreciate it. I'll keep fighting. I promise you that, and
22:36
Speaker 2: I know you will, too. 751 right now, 55KRC, the
22:39
Speaker 2: talk station. Don't go away. We've got Monday, Monday coming up,
22:42
Speaker 2: top of the hour news and state representative.