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Transcript

"Panic! At The Delta." · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: On today's show, the Biden administration grapples with the Delta surge.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Representative Adam Schiff chats with Tommy and me about the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: January 6th investigation and the top five bat shit craziest
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: moments from Donald Trump's speech in Arizona. But first, we
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: have a favor to ask. We really want to know
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: more about what you think of the show and what
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: we can do to make it better. So we'd love
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: it if you could take a quick survey on crooked.com
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: slash survey. Shouldn't take too long. And as a thank you,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: we'll give you 20% off any order at the Crooked store.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: I can't believe we got Nate Silver to run that
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: for us. Yeah, it's... Or is it Nate Cohn?
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: It's one of the Nates. Please do the survey.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: The confidence interval is going to be plus or minus 20%.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Please do the survey because... The less likely you are
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: to do the survey, the more we'd like you to
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: do the survey.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we want to capture all those people.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: Lovey wants the haters. That's what he's demanding.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: You want the haters. I was going to say, only
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: take it if you have nice things to say.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: One star reviews are my kink.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the news. We are all
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: sick of this fucking pandemic, which we are still dealing
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: with thanks to the incredibly contagious Delta variant and the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: fact that about 51% of the country is still unvaccinated.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: That's a population that's seeing well over 90 percent of
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: the new cases, hospitalizations and deaths that have come from
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: this latest surge. Two Biden administration officials told The Washington
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Post over the weekend that the White House is, quote,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: growing increasingly anxious about the state of the pandemic and
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: are gravely concerned about the situation spiraling out of control
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: in some areas of the country with low vaccination rates.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: The country seems to agree. A new ABC News Ipsos
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: poll found that only 45 percent of Americans are optimistic
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: about the direction of the country. That's a 20 point
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: drop since their poll in May. Other polls show that
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: this increased pessimism is driven almost entirely by the view
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: that was articulated by Dr. Fauci on CNN over the weekend.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: He said that when it comes to the pandemic, quote,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: we're going in the wrong direction and quote, it's not
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: going to be good. Jen Psaki got a question about
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: this that was very annoying at the briefing just now.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Let's play a clip.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: On COVID, Dr.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Fauci says we're going in the wrong direction.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Whose fault is that?
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: Well, I would say first what he was referring to
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: is the fact that because there are still a large
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: population of people in this country who are unvaccinated and
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: we have the most transmissible variant that we've seen since
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: the beginning of the pandemic, that more people are getting
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: sick with COVID. And those numbers are not moving in
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: the right direction. I think that's accurate and you can
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: see it by data.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Peter Doocy wants to know whose fault it is. That's
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: what Peter Doocy wants to know. Um, so Fauci in
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: that CNN interview, of course, went on to repeat the
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Biden administration line that this is now a pandemic of
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: the unvaccinated. Is that how you guys would characterize the
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: situation right now? Because we're all vaccinated and, uh, these
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: few last, last few weeks still feel like we're all
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: in this bullshit together. We're all vaccinated.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I don't make it a habit to, uh, disagree with
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: the scientific consensus about how to describe the pandemic. Um,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I do think that like the Steve juicy question is very,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: very stupid. Um, But it actually, I think, captures the
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: larger way in which even more sophisticated outlets have been
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: trying to cover the surge. You remember when we did
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: the correspondence dinner for President Obama in like 2011 or 2012?
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: We did those fake political headlines.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: So not the time that we've caused Trump to run
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: for office? The other one?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: One of the other ones. One of the other less
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: notable ones.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Gotcha.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: But we did these fake political headlines. And one of
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: them was like, you know, Lincoln wins civil war. Where's
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: the bounce? And a lot of the headlines, I have
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: that feeling like we were talking about a deeply serious situation.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: All the reporters understand that, like, unlike the previous administration,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: this is an administration like trying to make the best
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: decisions possible with the information they have and the limits
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: of the media and the struggle against vaccine hesitance and
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: all that. And instead, the coverage is like, basically, whose
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: fault is this and how what will the political implications be?
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Before you ever have the conversation like. The question whose
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: fault is it is obviously a third question that would
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: probably come after what can we do to change this situation,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: which no one seems to view as their job to ask.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: First of all, fake news, bros. Peter Doocy was the
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: man who asked the question.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I said Peter Doocy.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Steve... I didn't say Steve Ducey.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: I may have said Steve Ducey. And then there's another
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Ducey in Arizona who is, I think, unrelated. Yeah, there's
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of Duceys.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: We're going to get to him later, yeah.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we got a lot of Duceys on this show.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: I just want to throw it out there.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Ducey's wild.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Peter Ducey got the job, not at all, because of
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: his father, Steve Ducey, who hosts Fox & Friends. Ironically,
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: Steve Ducey's been pretty good on this. He's part of
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: a Get Vaccinated PSA that Fox News put out.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: He's like the good part of Fox on this one.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Gold star for Steve Ducey.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Broken Ducey's right twice a day.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Lovett makes the point about political implications being secondary, which
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I do agree with. I mean, like I have found
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: throughout the course of the pandemic that as you sort
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: through terrifying tweets, headlines, news segments about this, it's sort
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: of hard to separate what is real from what is sensationalized. Obviously,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: there's been a lot of coverage of breakthrough cases. Do
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: you think that's been... Too much? Too little? Like, how
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: do you feel about this stage of the pandemic right now?
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: Here are facts. 51,000 new cases yesterday, nearly 52,000. 269 deaths.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Those are preventable if the majority of those people were vaccinated.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: There's reports of some hospital systems being overwhelmed. There's going
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: to be an economic impact. And then... I don't know
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: about you guys, but my old friend, Anxiety, has come
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: back for a visit and decided to stay for a
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: little while. So, like, the reality is this is a problem.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: It's a growing problem. We're really lucky that the Delta
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: variant hit us when it did and not earlier before
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: we were vaccinated. I do think this is a problem.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: The political implications, I think, you have to separate out
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: even more. But I think, you know, yeah, it's going
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: to be a challenge. I have this way of getting
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: rid of my anxiety house guests.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: It's an edible. I'm talking about edibles. I don't know.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: We knew where you were going.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Which actually confer an immunity boost.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Is that real?
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: That's not real. That's not real.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I would say two things. One, I think you're right,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: and the truth is Delta is different. Andy Slavitt has
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: done really good coverage of this, the ways in which
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: it is actually different, and the ways it shouldn't feel
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: or actually be covered as being different. And there are
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: genuine ways in which Delta is more transmissible and is
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: causing more breakthrough infections. That said, one, you see a
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: lot of doom bait, which is not coverage of what
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: is happening, and not even quotes of scientists who have
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: fears about what could happen, but summary sentences inside of
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: news coverage that suggests that there's more and terrible things ahead. Like,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: could there be long COVID? Some scientists fear that could
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: be the case.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is important to say that, like, some questions
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: people have had about this, if you get a breakthrough infection,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Can you pass it on then to someone else who's
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: vaccinated if you were vaccinated too? The science is still
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: out on that. They think you are less likely to
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: be able to pass it on as you were if
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: you weren't vaccinated, but probably a little more likely than
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: with the alpha variant. But the science is out on that.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Could you get long COVID if you're vaccinated and have
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: a breakthrough infection? We do not know. We don't have
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: enough science yet. There have been almost no cases of
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: that detected so far, but it's early. But again, no
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: science on that yet.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: And then the second piece of this that I think
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: is influencing all of this coverage is the The cohort
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: of people discussing this on Twitter, writing about this, covering it,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: are vaccinated. And their families are vaccinated for the most part.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: They are in the kind of liberal enclaves that have
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: a greater degree of vaccination. And so they are covering,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: what about breakthrough infections? What's the situation with breakthrough infections?
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that that's not important. Of course, it
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: is important. But the larger story is a pandemic of
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: the unvaccinated, which is, of course, true, but the scale
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: of the coverage isn't matching up because the people writing
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: and reading these stories are all just concerned about the
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: impact on them and their families as vaccinated people.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: I think the scale of the coverage is appropriate. I
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: think that there's a lack of specificity and there is
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: like a fear first lead, which is leading to huge
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: swaths of unvaccinated people thinking that the vaccine doesn't work
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: against the variants, which is giving them another reason not
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: to get vaccinated as opposed to the last nudge they needed.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: And I think that's really damaging. I mean, the key
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: thing that everyone needs to know is that vaccinated people
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: are almost guaranteed not to go to the hospital, not
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: to die. That's the key. That's what vaccines are for.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: That's why we are where we are now and not
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: where India was a couple months ago when we first
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: learned about the Delta variant.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I think the key piece of advice is to, when
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: you hear these stories, because you're almost guaranteed, Will some
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: vaccinated people end up in the hospital? Some? Yes. Will
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: we hear about that? Absolutely, because those are going to
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: be the big stories. And so you really do have
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: to look at the numbers and the math overall, like
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: even a really, really effective vaccine, which we have. Once
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: you have a ton of people who are vaccinated, once
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: you get up to 150 million people and you have
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: a vaccine that's anywhere from 80 to 90 percent effective.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: that's still going to be a lot of fucking people
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: who have breakthrough infections. And again, you're going to hear
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: about it, and we're probably going to hear about it
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: even more because of what you said, Lovett, which is
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: we're all in that same bubble together.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's interesting because I do think there has
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: been this rise of coverage around breakthrough infections, what to
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: be afraid of, what not. It hasn't been specific enough.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: It has made a lot of people afraid. My text
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: messages suggest that that fear is spreading. But at the
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: same time, I actually think the more important shift we've
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: seen over the last two weeks is you know, Rupert
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Modric from his yacht gave some kind of a fucking
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: dick tot and it came down to like be more
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: pro-vaccine on all of his channels and you see a
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: big uptick. And I think the actual coverage of the
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Delta surge has combined to mean that we've seen a
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: rise in vaccinations.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I think the greatest increase in the rise of vaccinations
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: or the thing most responsible for the increase is the
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Delta variant itself.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Ron Klain, the White House chief of staff, tweeted this yesterday.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: I think 760,000 people got vaccinated in a 24-hour period,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: which you have to think is due to this round
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: of reporting.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Biggest number since early June. They haven't been there in
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: a while. So that is some good news. What more
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: can the Biden administration do to get the Delta surge
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: under control? What tools do they have in the toolbox?
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: So here's where I think, again, precision is helpful. I
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: think there are things that Biden can do. And then
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: there are demands that Biden say things. And one is
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: effective and one is useless. Right. So if we lived
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: in a rational world, Biden could announce a vaccine mandate,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: a two to three week mask mandate, and we would
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: crush the Delta variant in its tracks. But we live
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: in a stupid world. broken, polarized country where one political
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: party acts like that would be an act of oppression.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: Trying to save your life is an act of oppression.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: They wouldn't follow through. So it gets complicated. I think
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: where you start to hear people saying Biden should go
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: out and say more, give speeches, do fireside chats, that's
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: where it's actually counterproductive. So yesterday, Politico quoted a historian saying,
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: we'll look back on this period and say, Biden should
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: have been doing regular addresses to the American people. What
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: a missed opportunity. And I just think that's a dated
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: view of the country, of how communication works, because like
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: you were saying earlier, I love it. Like Sean Hannity
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: talking up the vaccine, Steve Scalise getting vaccinated, Republican radio
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: hosts who had a change of heart. Like those are
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: the messengers we need to reach this big group of
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: people that are unvaccinated and Republican and don't believe that
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: Biden's actually the president of the United States. Right. I mean,
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: like that's how fundamental the mistrust is. The Republican governor
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: of Alabama said, you're letting us down if you don't
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: get vaccinated. Those are the messengers that we should be
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: elevating and trying to get covered right now. Like, you know, John,
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: I think the things that Biden we would like Biden
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: to do, I think, are probably more likely to happen
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: on a local level. Like you've been talking up the
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: need for L.A. to say, hey, if you work for
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: the city, get vaccinated. Yeah, no.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: New York announced today that New York city workers are
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: going to be required to be vaccinated. San Francisco has. L.A.,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: of course, has not, even though they were first out
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: of the gate on the on reinstating the mask mandate,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: which tells you everything you need to know about what
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: it's like to live in L.A. during the pandemic this
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: whole time. But look, so what can Biden do in
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: terms of vaccine requirements? I like calling them requirements now.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: No M word.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: So in terms of vaccine requirements, he could require vaccine
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: requirements for all travel, right? Because that's under the federal
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: purview for air travel or train travel. He could also
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: require it for walking into a federal building. He could
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: do that soon. The other big thing, love it. I
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: know you're going to have something to say about this,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: is a lot of vaccine requirements either on the, local, state,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: or federal level, or in the private sector would be
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: on even firmer legal ground. Many of them are on
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: firm legal ground already, but they would be on even
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: firmer legal ground if the FDA finally approved, fully approved
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: the vaccine, even though the FDA and the leaders of
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: the FDA have been telling us for months, it is
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: absolutely safe, it's approved as an emergency use authorization.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Look, obviously, look, the most important thing in what makes
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: people trust a process is knowing that, like, some fucking
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: arcane procedure was followed, even despite all common sense and knowledge.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: And actually, what we really want is the FDA to
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: treat literally, what are we at now, 2 billion human
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: beings as guinea pigs for their trial. That's like the
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: most important thing. Because what are the two fucking options
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: for the FDA at this point? Do they really think
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: that like not approving it now and approving it in
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: a month or two months or three months or whenever
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: they get around to it is going to improve trust
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: in their process? And then the alternative, imagine what happens
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: if they come to the conclusion it isn't safe. Like, wow,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: you know what?
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Big whoopsie there.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Thank you, FDA. We are so proud of you.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: We have made a big mistake that only 150 million
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Americans have now made with us.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: Sorry. We just told you to do it. We told
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: you to take it. Don't yell at us.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: It's very silly, but like, it's this idea that like
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: the reason the FDA is the gold standard and is
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: trusted is because they follow their processes without exception. And
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: actually it's like, The reason you trust the FDA is
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: because you trust that the processes are smart and built
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: to get a good result. We already have the result.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Common sense should kind of apply here. It is so
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: stupid and counterproductive. that they haven't just approved this fucking,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: most of the country has taken the vaccine. You work
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: for us. You're our health representatives. We've already done it.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: We've trusted you.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, unfortunately, the CDC, the FDA, they've taken
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: a bit of a hit when it comes to trust
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: in those institutions. That's why when I hear about things
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: like the NFL saying, you know what, if you're a
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: member of an NFL team and you don't get vaccinated
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: and you have to cancel a game because a bunch
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: of people get sick, you forfeit that game and you
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: forfeit your pay. That kind of shit It's going to
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: make people pay attention. Or when campuses are like, guess what?
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: You want to go to, let's say Duke, whatever, some school,
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: you can't come back on campus until you're vaccinated. I
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: think that at scale is going to be highly effective.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: So this is my one more big thing that the
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Biden administration could be doing is to more fully and
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: forcefully get behind those moves that you're describing. So like
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: someone asked Jen about this at the briefing about the
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: NFL and she's like, yeah, that's their right to do.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: And they can do that stuff like that. And they're
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: sort of tiptoeing around this because I know that they're
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: worried about the politics of vaccine requirements and They're probably
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: looking at France and Italy where now they have vaccine
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: requirements and there were like massive protests in the street.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I'm sure the Biden administration doesn't want to see that here.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: But like you have the NFL doing this. You have
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: college campuses doing this. Now you have health systems doing this.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: You have businesses doing this. Crooked media. We say you
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: can't come back into the office unless you're vaccinated. Like
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: the Biden administration could be leading a national effort to
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: really encourage businesses all over the country to to put
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: in place vaccine requirements.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: I can't believe Lewis was like, I don't want that
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: 5G in my fucking body. Won't see you again.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, Lewis.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: No, I'm actually not sure that that's right. I disagree.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I don't agree there.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: I want to go back to the Obama-era theory of
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: leading from behind. I'd like to see them poke and
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: prod people quietly to announce these things and then do
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: exactly what Jen did and shut up about it and
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: not make it about Joe Biden and make it about
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Roger Goodell's overpaid, obnoxious... lying ass making a bunch of
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: NFL players.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: If they're putting pressure on them in behind the scenes,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I think that's probably fine, too. But they should be
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: putting pressure on it because these are remember, we're not
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: trying to this isn't about convincing vaccine skeptics. This is
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: about convincing the business community who is probably all vaccinated
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: and the leaders of the business community are probably much
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: more pro Biden and willing to listen to the White
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: House than a lot of the people who won't get
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: the vaccine. I think there are two tracks here. There
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: is a persuasion track that should continue to go on.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: where people, you know, try to persuade vaccine skeptical, vaccine
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: hesitant people to take the shot. I don't want to
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: classify them all as like MAGA lunatics, right? There's a
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: lot of really good people who just are worried about
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: it and haven't taken it. So you've got to persuade them.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Then there's another track that is a vaccine requirement track
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: that a lot of countries are experimenting with, that a
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: lot of businesses are experimenting with here too. And I
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: think we have to expand that as quickly as possible.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: And the Biden administration should do whatever they can to
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: get behind that.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't think Joe Biden getting up there
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: and saying, I'm in favor of vaccine requirements is going
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: to mean we end up with more vaccine requirements for
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: the exact same reason. He's not necessarily the right messenger
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: to tell people to get vaccinated at this point. And
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: it's more important to lift up local voices and people
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: and vaccine skeptics that people that the vaccine skeptics might trust.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Like, The administration's already out there. They're already out there
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: on this.
• 17:02
  Speaker 6: I know.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Fauci's on TV saying, yeah, there should be more local mandates.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: There should be more of this. So like, this is
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying. It's not like they've been, I don't
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: want to talk about it. They're already a little bit
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: out there.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: I just look, when the NFL announces this step, I
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: want a bunch of businesses to read about the NFL
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: doing this. I don't want them to read a subsequent
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: story that gets topped with a Jen Psaki or Joe
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: Biden comment about how, yeah, they should do this and
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: everyone should be doing this. It's like, I want to
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: let that story marinate out there. People read it and
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: try to follow suit. But like, look, it's... a matter
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: of degree here.
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I just think it's, this is not a persuasion thing
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: to me. This is not about the coverage. The vaccine
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: requirements got to get done and they got to get
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: done fast because by the time we, if we put
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: them in place in December, after everyone's decided they like
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: what the NFL done and put in place, it's too
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: fucking late. And a bunch of people have died. So
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: like as fast as we can, we got to put
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: them in place. If they're doing it behind the scenes,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: that's fine, but they got to do it. Um, at
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: some point Biden's message about the pandemic and his governing
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: record will sharpen into a campaign message for the midterms. Uh,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: we got a preview of that on Friday in Virginia, uh,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: when the president campaigned for the first time with former
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Governor Terry McAuliffe in his race against Republican Glenn Youngkin.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Biden focused on his work to end the pandemic and
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: save the economy, but he also called Youngkin an acolyte
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: of Donald Trump and said, quote, I ran against Donald
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Trump and so is Terry. I whipped Donald Trump in
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Virginia and so will Terry. This is interesting because Tommy
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: and I recorded our interview with Congressman Schiff before we
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: started talking about this. He basically said, if Kevin McCarthy
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: is Speaker of If the Republicans win the House, it'll
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: be like Donald Trump is Speaker. What do you guys
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: think about this clear strategy on behalf of Democrats now
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: to tie all of these Republican candidates to Donald Trump?
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: You see the same thing in California. There are ads
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: running nonstop saying, stop the Trumpist recall of Gavin Newsom.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, really?
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they were on last night.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like first they tried to overturn the election. Now
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: the insurrectionists have set their eyes on California and Gavin Newsom. So,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: What do you think?
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I was like, OK, maybe.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, sure.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Why not?
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Let's go for it. It's a Trump thing. I'm sure
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I'm sure I'm sure it's polling. Well, yeah, I don't know.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: I think it's just Donald Trump is not popular in
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: a changing Virginia. And the way in which Donald Trump
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: has been covered has never treated him like a normal politician.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: But as a normal politician, Donald Trump is a deeply unpopular,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: divisive figure that turns off a lot of people, especially
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: the kind of people a Republican needs to bring back
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: if they're going to win in a state like Virginia
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: in the suburbs. the places where Trump has lost and
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: the places where some of those Republicans could come home
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: to a more moderate or kind of less uncivil figure.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: And I think they're trying to make sure that that
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: doesn't happen.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: What's interesting about that Biden message is essentially the MAGA message,
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: because I was watching the Turning Point USA event that
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: became the Trump Arizona speech. And that little schlub, Charlie Kirk,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: who runs the organization said, if you were silent about
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: what happened in 2020, get out of the party and
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: run as a Democrat. So these members are going to
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: get squeezed on both sides. And essentially get forced into
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: taking this position. And it's probably a state by state
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: thing in terms of how it polls and what it'll
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: mean for Terry McAuliffe versus someone in running in Arkansas
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: or whatever. But it's interesting. Look, hey, it's a strategy.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen this anywhere, though. I'm sure it is
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: everywhere and I've just missed it. But Like, calling him
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Glenn Trumpkin is just, like, right there for the taking.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, that seems like it's in a fucking Democratic
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: fundraising email right now. I'm not saying it's a good idea,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: but I'm going to say it's probably going to happen.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: If it's not, you just did it.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I just did it. What I'm worried about is, like,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I don't want it to be too simplistic. Like, I
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: could tell, Lovett, that's sort of what you might have
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: been chafing at with the ad. Like, I don't... I
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: think one of the... One thing that we didn't do
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: as much in 2020... is we didn't define the Republican
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Party and the threat from the Republican Party. What we
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: said is Trump is the biggest threat to democracy right now.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: And so Joe Biden needs to beat Donald Trump. That
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: was the right thing to do in 2020 because Trump
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: was a fucking existential threat to democracy. Well, all these
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: months later, as all the Republicans have sided with Trump
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: on the, you know, insurrection and potential coup there, I
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: do think that in 2022, we need to have a
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: message about the Republican Party. And it's not just, what
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: does it mean to be like Trump? What does it
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: mean to be a Republican party that has remade itself
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: in Trump's image? It's like a very subtle difference, but
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I think you need to describe Republicans and what's wrong
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: with them and what's bad about them. That's not just, oh,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: they're all Trump.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I think it's one of the debates that kind of
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: plays out over and over again in terms of Democratic
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: messaging is there's an impulse on the part of Democratic
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: campaigns to focus on kitchen table issues because those pull
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: really well for Democrats. They pull really poorly for Republicans.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Then you have I think another argument that's also valid,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: which is like we can't simply ignore the assault on democracy,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: even though there is this like kind of surface level
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: polling that tells us it's not the place to fight.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump, one of the moments of his lowest popularity
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: after four years of fucking misrule was when he was
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: trying to overturn Obamacare. That was just true.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: And like painting Republicans not just as Trumpist because we
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: don't like him personally, but because we don't like his
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: low tax rates for corporations. cuts to social services. We
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: have to figure out a way to make this a
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: message that ties the anti-democratic and the kind of incivility
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: that people hate to the policy agenda that's harder to
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: kind of get the media to focus on, certainly.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: By saying that they're all like Trump, you're calling them extremists.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: And I think that there's a way to define what
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: a Republican extremist means today. And that can range anywhere
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: from voting against COVID relief checks, which they did, to
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: voting against a bipartisan panel to investigate an attack on
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: the Capitol.
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: They're all sort of a piece.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: But again, Trump has set the terms of the debate
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: here because he said at this speech we're about to
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: talk about that the election lie, you know, him feeling
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: the election was stolen from him is the biggest issue
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: there is. I think that's a direct quote. He says
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: it's bigger than the border. It's bigger than inflation. It's
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: bigger than anything else. To him, this is the core issue.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: issue that Republicans should be talking about. So they'll probably
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: get there. So we should meet them there.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Not just, and not just should be talking about, have
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: to be talking about.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Or you're out.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Unless, yeah, or you're out. Unless you want to be punished.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: When we come back, Tommy and I will talk to
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Congressman Adam Schiff. The House of Representatives Select Committee to
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: investigate the deadly insurrection against Congress on 1-6 will hold
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: its first hearing tomorrow, July 27th. House Minority Leader Kevin
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: McCarthy is boycotting the hearings because Speaker Nancy Pelosi refused
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: to let him appoint members who said they wanted to
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: sabotage them. But there will be two Republicans on the panel,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: thanks to Pelosi representatives Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger. Here
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: to talk more about what we can expect from these
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: hearings is one of the Democratic committee members, chairman of
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: the House Intelligence Committee, and a longtime friend of the pod,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Congressman Adam Schiff. Congressman, welcome back.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: Thanks. Great to be with you.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: So you have said that the goal of this committee
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: is first and foremost to uncover the truth about the
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: 1-6 attacks. Are there additional goals? Will there be recommendations
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: of some sort after the committee finishes its work? And
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: more importantly, how can the work you're about to do
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: be used to help make sure there's not another 1-6?
• 23:59
  Speaker 7: Well, that really is the entire point, which is we
• 24:03
  Speaker 7: want to conduct a thorough investigation of follow the evidence,
• 24:07
  Speaker 7: but make a series of sound recommendations about how to
• 24:10
  Speaker 7: protect the country going forward, how to make sure that
• 24:13
  Speaker 7: there is not a next attack on the U.S. Capitol
• 24:17
  Speaker 7: or on state capitals. And, you know, we were just
• 24:21
  Speaker 7: doing some preparation for the hearing tomorrow. And any number
• 24:25
  Speaker 7: of the insurrectionists said, OK, next time they're going to
• 24:27
  Speaker 7: do X or Y. So there was certainly an intention
• 24:30
  Speaker 7: among those who attacked the Capitol that day to continue
• 24:33
  Speaker 7: the unfinished work they set about So those recommendations about
• 24:37
  Speaker 7: how to protect our democracy and our capital and our people,
• 24:41
  Speaker 7: that's going to be among the most important parts of this.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Congressman, we're seeing this troubling sort of rewriting of history
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: where Republicans are more and more willing to suggest that
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: the insurrectionists on 1-6 were freedom fighters. Now, you're trying
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: to put together this committee with the speaker, and Kevin
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: McCarthy is calling Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, two Republican
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: members of Congress, Pelosi Republicans. suggesting that the committee isn't
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: bipartisan because they aren't real Republicans, presumably because they don't
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: support Trump's election lie. Unfortunately, we're seeing parts of the
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: mainstream press even kind of repeat that spin. How do you,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: how do we all push back on the sort of
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Kevin McCarthy politico playbook definition of a Republican or bipartisan
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: as Trump sycophants, as people who support the insurrection or
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: will repeat his lies uncritically?
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: Well, you know, I think that Liz Cheney is really
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: the case in point, because here she was the number
• 25:34
  Speaker 7: three person in the Republican Party. She's more conservative than
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: Elise Stefanik, far more conservative, more within the tradition of
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: the GOP. But she's thrown out of her leadership position
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: and replaced with Stefanik.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: Because she refused to carry the president's big lie and
• 25:50
  Speaker 7: Kevin McCarthy's big lie.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: And that cost her her job.
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: And she was replaced with someone Annalise Stefanik, who was
• 25:57
  Speaker 7: willing to carry those big lies. The Republican Party, sadly,
• 26:01
  Speaker 7: right now is a cult around the former president.
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: It's an anti-democratic, anti-truth cult.
• 26:09
  Speaker 7: And if you're not willing to be a part of that,
• 26:12
  Speaker 7: then you're essentially cast aside by Kevin McCarthy.
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: Look, we're determined to get to the truth.
• 26:19
  Speaker 7: We have a great body of members now on the
• 26:21
  Speaker 7: Select Committee, Democrats and Republicans, who are wedded to the truth.
• 26:26
  Speaker 7: And that's what this calls for. That's what our Constitution
• 26:30
  Speaker 7: requires in this circumstance.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: What are some of the most important questions that still
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: haven't been answered in your mind about 1-6 that you're
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: going to be looking for answers to on the committee?
• 26:40
  Speaker 7: Well, I'd like to know, what did we know in
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: advance of January 6th? What do we know about those
• 26:45
  Speaker 7: who were planning this?
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: What do we know about the potential for violence?
• 26:49
  Speaker 7: What was known within the administration of the participation of
• 26:52
  Speaker 7: these white nationalist groups?
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: Why were we so ill-prepared?
• 26:57
  Speaker 7: And why were the reinforcements so slow to arrive? These
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: are some of the questions. What level of financing was
• 27:06
  Speaker 7: involved in this? What plans do these groups have for
• 27:09
  Speaker 7: future attacks on the capital or democracy? But one of
• 27:12
  Speaker 7: the overarching questions for me is, and this, I think,
• 27:16
  Speaker 7: was really summed up by one of the officers that
• 27:19
  Speaker 7: day when he asked, after being the subject of racial
• 27:22
  Speaker 7: epithets and seeing these people attack the citadel of our democracy.
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: Is this America?
• 27:27
  Speaker 7: Is this what we have to expect now when one
• 27:30
  Speaker 7: side loses an election, that they don't accept the results?
• 27:33
  Speaker 7: That is now okay to use violence to achieve a
• 27:36
  Speaker 7: political end and to stoke bigotry and division.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: In furtherance of that violence.
• 27:41
  Speaker 7: And I think one of the recommendations we need to
• 27:44
  Speaker 7: make is how this country is going to once again
• 27:48
  Speaker 7: solidify are support for democracy and make sure that this experiment, self-government,
• 27:54
  Speaker 7: continues and will thrive because it's now, I think, at
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: greater risk than certainly any time in my lifetime.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there are a lot of conversations and debate
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: around the witness list. Obviously, potential for witnesses include former
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: members of the Trump administration, members of Congress even, potentially
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy himself, potentially Donald Trump himself. How are you
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: deciding who to call as witnesses And then how are
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: you making sure that if they don't voluntarily comply, that
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: they will, in fact, answer a subpoena? Because obviously this
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: was a challenge during the impeachment hearings.
• 28:30
  Speaker 7: Well, we are very much in the early stages of
• 28:32
  Speaker 7: the investigation. And one of the first steps is developing
• 28:36
  Speaker 7: the scope of the investigation. What issues are we going
• 28:38
  Speaker 7: to drill into? And where is the evidence that we
• 28:41
  Speaker 7: need in terms of resolving the questions about those issues?
• 28:45
  Speaker 7: You know, you don't usually start out at the top.
• 28:47
  Speaker 7: You work your way up in terms of the seriousness
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: of the issues.
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: And the witnesses.
• 28:53
  Speaker 7: Hopefully, you get a lot of the documentary evidence that
• 28:56
  Speaker 7: you can follow up the question of witnesses with. So,
• 28:59
  Speaker 7: you know, I think at this point, it's premature to
• 29:01
  Speaker 7: be saying precisely.
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: Who we'll be bringing in.
• 29:04
  Speaker 7: But it's going to require, I think, at the end
• 29:07
  Speaker 7: of the day, the use of compulsion to get some
• 29:09
  Speaker 7: of these answers. We want to make sure that when
• 29:12
  Speaker 7: we request documents, we get them all. And if you
• 29:15
  Speaker 7: do it simply on a voluntary basis, then people can refuse.
• 29:19
  Speaker 7: And there's no repercussions. So I favor the use of subpoenas. Normally,
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: we would start with voluntary compliance and go to subpoena,
• 29:26
  Speaker 7: but I don't think we want to wait. And in
• 29:29
  Speaker 7: terms of witnesses, if there are witnesses that are relevant
• 29:32
  Speaker 7: and they refuse, then we'll need to use subpoenas.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: If they still refuse, then we'll need to figure out.
• 29:37
  Speaker 7: What tools do we have to compel them to come in.
• 29:39
  Speaker 7: And we may have some more tools now than we
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: did over the last four years.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Is Trump as a witness on the table, at least?
• 29:45
  Speaker 7: The chairman, Bennie Thompson, has said basically everyone is on
• 29:47
  Speaker 7: the table, and that includes the former president.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: According to one of the Trump books, Ivanka told someone
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: she was standing by that Mike Pence is a good
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: man and that she thinks this whole insurrection thing is bad.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: Could we call the Trump family? Because they're painting pictures
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: of themselves in these books where everyone looks like a
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: bit of a hero. And I'm curious if we can
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: get some of these quotes under oath.
• 30:06
  Speaker 7: Well, as you say, there's been a tremendous amount of
• 30:09
  Speaker 7: revisionist history, not just about January 6th, but about the
• 30:13
  Speaker 7: actors within the Trump administration.
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: There's been an.
• 30:16
  Speaker 7: Effort to rehabilitate individuals. damaged, and destroyed reputations. Where it's
• 30:21
  Speaker 7: relevant to January 6th, where witnesses have important information, we're
• 30:26
  Speaker 7: not going to rely on self-serving public statements. You know,
• 30:29
  Speaker 7: we'll want to bring in those that are relevant. I
• 30:32
  Speaker 7: don't want to say that's true of Ivanka. I simply
• 30:35
  Speaker 7: don't know, and we haven't made specific decisions.
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: But we're not going to.
• 30:38
  Speaker 7: Rely on these self-serving accounts. We're going to make sure
• 30:40
  Speaker 7: that people are put under oath that have relevant testimony.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Slightly different topic. You know, there's a lot of concern,
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: this growing concern, I think, among activists, voting rights attorneys, us,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: about voter suppression efforts we're seeing in dozens of states,
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: along with the likely gerrymandering that will happen in a
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: lot of states that could have the potential to essentially
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: rewrite the maps and in so doing hand Republicans the
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: majority in 2022 through a gerrymander. How concerned is leadership
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: about that? potential? And is there a plan to try
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: to stop it?
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: Deeply concerned.
• 31:18
  Speaker 7: And I know I feel this is an existential issue
• 31:21
  Speaker 7: for our party, for our democracy.
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: I think every effort.
• 31:25
  Speaker 7: Has to be made to pass H.R. 1, to pass
• 31:27
  Speaker 7: the John Lewis Voting Rights Act.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: One thing I'm convinced of, and.
• 31:31
  Speaker 7: That is if the situation was reversed and Mitch McConnell
• 31:35
  Speaker 7: was running the Senate, the Republicans controlled the House and
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: controlled the White House, and there was something they felt
• 31:40
  Speaker 7: existential in McConnell would find a way to get it done.
• 31:43
  Speaker 7: And we darn well need to find a way to
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: get it done also. And time is running out, particularly
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: when it comes to the gerrymander. So I feel a
• 31:52
  Speaker 7: real sense of urgency. I think the president of the
• 31:54
  Speaker 7: United States need to be working on this every day.
• 31:57
  Speaker 7: He needs to be working with Joe Manchin to find
• 31:59
  Speaker 7: a pathway to a carve out of the filibuster.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: When it comes to this foundational right to vote.
• 32:05
  Speaker 7: And failing to get that done we are simply going
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: to have to mount the most massive turnout operation in
• 32:13
  Speaker 7: our history and overcome whatever obstacles they put in our way,
• 32:17
  Speaker 7: including these bigoted Jim Crow laws that are being enacted.
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: Around the country.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, just one little follow on that. I mean,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: there's been some reporting that suggests that the White House
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: thinks that maybe we can just sort of out-organize a
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: gerrymander as one of the people who would be potentially
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: asked to do that, or on behalf of colleagues who
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: might be asked to sort of out-organize a gerrymander. Do
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: you think that's feasible or even possible? I wonder how
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: you reacted to that.
• 32:41
  Speaker 7: Well, my feeling is I don't even contemplate that possibility.
• 32:44
  Speaker 7: I just want to make sure we do everything to
• 32:46
  Speaker 7: prevent the gerrymander in the first place. One thing I'm
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: not really convinced of, and that is if they're allowed
• 32:51
  Speaker 7: to gerrymander, it will be the most severe gerrymander ever.
• 32:55
  Speaker 7: The Republicans feel they can gerrymander their way into a majority,
• 32:58
  Speaker 7: and they could be right about And I don't want
• 33:01
  Speaker 7: to simply rely on the fallback. You know, we'll do
• 33:05
  Speaker 7: everything humanly possible if that becomes necessary. But right now,
• 33:09
  Speaker 7: we should be focused on whatever it takes to get
• 33:12
  Speaker 7: legislation passed requiring states to use independent commissions like we
• 33:16
  Speaker 7: do in California. I think that's achievable, but I think
• 33:20
  Speaker 7: it will require the president's personal and daily involvement in
• 33:26
  Speaker 7: this fight to carve out this area from the filibuster.
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: And I wouldn't give.
• 33:31
  Speaker 7: That task to anyone else because the success of his
• 33:34
  Speaker 7: presidency also ultimately depends on doing away with the gerrymander
• 33:38
  Speaker 7: and making sure that we end these disenfranchisement efforts.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: You tweeted the other day that Republicans of good conscience,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: both in power and out, must take their party back.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: So only 17 Republicans in Congress voted to impeach Trump
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: the second time. And the guy is currently frontrunner for
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: the Republican nomination in 2024. How is the Republican Civil
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: War going? anything but over already? And what are the
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: implications for that?
• 34:03
  Speaker 7: You know, there was a brief moment, all too brief,
• 34:06
  Speaker 7: when Mitch McConnell flirted with matters of conscience after the insurrection,
• 34:11
  Speaker 7: spoke out, you know, in very strong terms about Trump's responsibility.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: For the bloodbath that day and.
• 34:18
  Speaker 7: Using the largest megaphone in the world to push out
• 34:20
  Speaker 7: these lies about an election that he simply couldn't accept
• 34:22
  Speaker 7: that he'd lost. But it was only two weeks after
• 34:25
  Speaker 7: that he was asked, well, if he's your nominee, are
• 34:27
  Speaker 7: you going to support him? And his answer was absolutely.
• 34:30
  Speaker 7: That's how long those matters of conscience held out for
• 34:33
  Speaker 7: two weeks, which was really almost two weeks longer than
• 34:35
  Speaker 7: it did for Kevin McCarthy. And it's a terrible tragedy
• 34:39
  Speaker 7: for the country because there was a chance that we
• 34:42
  Speaker 7: might turn a corner.
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: After that horrible day. But the reality is.
• 34:47
  Speaker 7: I think as long as Donald Trump is on the scene,
• 34:51
  Speaker 7: we're going to be struggling with this. You're right to
• 34:53
  Speaker 7: say that in this initial round, that fight has been
• 34:57
  Speaker 7: won by Donald Trump.
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: He owns that party lock, stock and barrel.
• 35:02
  Speaker 7: But we're not going to have a truly functional democracy
• 35:05
  Speaker 7: until the Republican Party stops being a cult of that indecent,
• 35:08
  Speaker 7: amoral human being and becomes a party of ideas. And
• 35:12
  Speaker 7: so however long it takes is going to be how
• 35:14
  Speaker 7: long it takes for our country to recover.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: Just one question about the cult. You mentioned House Majority
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Leader Kevin McCarthy. He famously used to pick out the
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: red and pink starbursts and give just those to President
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: Trump because he thought President Trump preferred just red and
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: pink starbursts. Have you ever asked him what his problem
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: is with orange starbursts? Because I find them to be
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: quite good, and I find this whole charade a little
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: bit insulting.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: Well, I think.
• 35:41
  Speaker 7: Maybe the problem with the orange starburst is that, you know,
• 35:44
  Speaker 7: it might add to the former president's coloration.
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: But no, I think that Kevin McCarthy view that.
• 35:49
  Speaker 7: As among his most important responsibilities as Republican leader. And
• 35:53
  Speaker 7: don't even get me started on what he probably would
• 35:55
  Speaker 7: do with the M & Ms.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is very funny, of course, because Kevin
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: McCarthy is a sycophant. How concerned are you about what
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: it looks like for Republicans to take the House again?
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: and what that might mean? Because it feels like the
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: stakes are bigger than the usual midterm election where one
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: party takes control of Congress or not. And that now
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: we have a party that has so frontally attacked democracy
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: so brazenly and openly in charge of the House. I mean,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: are you worried personally? Are you worried for the country? Like,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: what is the level of concern you have about giving
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Republicans power again in this country?
• 36:29
  Speaker 7: You know, I'm glad you asked that question, because I
• 36:31
  Speaker 7: don't think there's been enough focus on just what a
• 36:35
  Speaker 7: calamity it would be if Kevin.
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: McCarthy ever set foot in the Speaker's office.
• 36:40
  Speaker 7: Kevin McCarthy was made for a moment like this, a
• 36:43
  Speaker 7: moment of a Trump presidency, former presidency, when there.
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: Is no devotion in that party to truth. That was
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: a moment made for Kevin McCarthy.
• 36:54
  Speaker 7: And it's not just that we would have Republicans controlling
• 36:58
  Speaker 7: one chamber and legislative gridlock and we couldn't make progress
• 37:02
  Speaker 7: on climate or any number of other vital existential issues.
• 37:07
  Speaker 7: It's that we would have someone very much mirroring the immorality,
• 37:13
  Speaker 7: the lack of character of the former president in the
• 37:17
  Speaker 7: Speaker's office, if it were Kevin McCarthy. This is a
• 37:20
  Speaker 7: contingency to which all efforts must be made to avoid.
• 37:23
  Speaker 7: I think effectively, if Kevin McCarthy ever became Speaker Donald
• 37:26
  Speaker 7: Trump would be Speaker. Whether he was named Speaker or not,
• 37:30
  Speaker 7: he would be effectively running the House of Representatives. His
• 37:33
  Speaker 7: lies would be Kevin's lies, and Kevin's lies would be
• 37:37
  Speaker 7: the lies of the House of Representatives.
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: And so we need to make sure that never happens.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, we do. Everyone get ready to vote in 22.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Congressman Schiff, thank you so much for joining, and good
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: luck with the hearings this week.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Alright, so the frontrunner for the 2024 Republican nomination took
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: the stage at a rally for election integrity, is what
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: it was called, in Arizona on Saturday. Donald Trump spoke
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: for nearly two hours, and he played all the hits.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: He even led a locker-up chant about Hillary Clinton for
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: old time's sake. Since no one but the Newsmax audience
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: had the pleasure of watching the speech in full, and
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: since no one should ever have to watch another Trump
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: speech in full, we thought we'd bring you the top
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: five batshit craziest moments from Trump's Arizona speech. Let's hear
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: number five.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: How about the vaccine?
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: I came up with the vaccine.
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: They said it would take three to five years, going
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: to save the world. I recommend you take it, but
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: I also believe in your freedoms 100%, but just so
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: you understand.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: But it was a great achievement.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: It was a sandwich there. I'm awesome. Look what I did.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: You don't have to take it if you don't want,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: but it's awesome that I did it.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: I recommend you take it. I recommend you take about Like,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: does not want that clip alone. Doesn't want it out
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: there alone.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: That's why I get so frustrated when you wake up
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: in the morning and Politico playbook says, why isn't Joe
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Biden giving more speeches about this? Because it's just so
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: clear that that's not going to be effective. That's not
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: the problem. Joe Biden is not the solution here. It's
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump, both sides seeing the vaccine in the middle
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: of a massive new surge. It's like, I'm not defending Biden.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying the response has been perfect, but it's like,
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: If Trump came out and said, hey, you're all going
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: to die if you don't get this. vaccine, get it tomorrow,
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: a lot of people would do it.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: If you want to be part of this movement, there's
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: one thing you need to do first, which is get
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: this vaccine.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: We need you safe. We need you healthy. We need
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: you voting. Get the vaccine.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: I'm 100% with you on this one. This is slightly
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: different than my Biden should be pushing vaccine requirements.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Again, this is about what Biden should say, not do.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: And on the saying, like Chris Christie was actually... Saying
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: this over the weekend, he talked, he's like, I talked
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: to some guy and, you know, convinced him to get
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: the vaccine. And what he doesn't want here is like
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden going out there every day and tweeting and
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris tweeting, like, get vaccinated isn't doing anything. And
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: he's right. At this point, the White House going out
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: and just being like, get vaccinated is not, you know,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: the message and the messenger. It's going to happen locally.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: It's going to happen in communities. It's going to happen
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: from trusted sources like doctors or people, you know, or
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: people in your family. That's how you're going to get
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: people vaccinated and clearly vaccinated. Donald Trump does not want
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: to be part of that effort, even though he was
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: vaccinated among, he was among one of the first people
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: vaccinated and did so in secret. And wants credit for it.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: And wants credit for it. All right, let's listen to
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: number four.
• 40:25
  Speaker 6: I said, why wouldn't this governor, Doug Ducey, you know,
• 40:28
  Speaker 6: when I did rallies, when I did rallies, he always
• 40:31
  Speaker 6: wanted to be in the front row.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: Sir, could you.
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: Mention my name, please? Sorry, I'll mention.
• 40:34
  Speaker 6: But I'd introduce him and I wouldn't get much of
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: an applause and he'd get a lot of boos.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: And I kept saying, you know, this guy's.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Not very popular. But now, you know what?
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: He's not popular with me either. They came to see me.
• 40:46
  Speaker 6: They said, sir, would you like him to run for
• 40:48
  Speaker 6: the Senate? I said, he's not getting my endorsement.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: I can tell you that. The Mitch McConnell. There's another beauty,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: by the way.
• 40:57
  Speaker 6: The Mitch McConnell Republican.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: The Mitch McConnell. The old crow.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: What did that mean?
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Where did the old crow come from?
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: The old crow.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: It's definitely not the most important part of that clip,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: but I just could not stop laughing at it. The
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: old crow. Mitch McConnell.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: That old crow.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Is that a thing? Is that a saying? That old crow.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: So for some reason, I also watched Arizona Congressman Paul
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: Gosar's speech. He's a Republican congressman from the 4th District.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: So you know that scene in Men in Black when
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: the alien first comes down? and he takes over the
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: body of the mechanic. He's got that sort of weird
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: affect where he kind of lurches around.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Vincent D'Onofrio.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: That's Paul Gosar.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: One of his great performances. You really think that he's
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: wearing a Vincent D'Onofrio suit.
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: That's the cool thing about it.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: And so the number of theories that they're going through
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: to get to this audit, they think 400,000 to 700,000
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: ballots were altered. He's recommending a documentary called Kill Chain,
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: which is either a documentary or a 2019 Nick Cage movie.
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: But what I'm trying to get at is, slowly, is
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: that there's really no difference between this Gosar speech and
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: where Trump is on the audit and on what's happening
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: in Arizona in terms of the election lie. And the
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: Paul Gosar speech is like one of the craziest things
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: I've ever watched.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: My thought hearing that is, without a doubt, Doug Ducey
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: presents like the greatest threat to, you know, Mark Kelly
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: or Kyrsten Sinema in Arizona because he is one of
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: the few sort of, let's call them establishment Republicans left
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: in Arizona. The Arizona Republican Party is well known for
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: all the rest of its fucking kooks, right? From Kelly
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Ward to Joe Arpaio and the rest of the crew.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: And it made me think like, you know, we've been
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: sort of worried that, you know, that Donald Trump is
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: going to remake the party in his image and endorse
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: all these Trumpy candidates who are going to like wreak havoc.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: And I still worry a great deal about that. But
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: like the fact that he's going to go all in
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: against Ducey when Ducey is clearly their best candidate there.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: is very telling, and you wonder how many different places
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: around the country that will happen.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, look, the only time the Republican
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Party and Donald Trump's interests have 100% aligned is when
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump was on the ballot, because Donald Trump wants
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: to win, and they want him to win. But, you know,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I think we will see a mix of Trumpian politics
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: driving turnout of that base, combined with some of the
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: kind of blowback we saw in Georgia with Donald Trump
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: sowing chaos because he sees it in his interest to
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: be a kingmaker or... I always get these confused, but
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: there's defenestration and there's regicide.
• 43:29
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Sometimes he wants to make kings and sometimes he wants
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: to do regicide.
• 43:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: It's just so jarring to hear Gosar talk about his, like,
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: who killed Ashley Babbitt bracelet. It's terrifying. And he's, again,
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: suggesting that insiders from the FBI and DOJ were part
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: of the insurrection. It's like that guy was, what, one
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: or two speakers before Trump. I mean, that's the party now.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Now, the one place where Trump really is smart on
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: the politics is bashing McConnell. Again, I keep thinking about
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: that Unite the Country memo, the pro-Biden super PAC, and
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: they said the one politician that even the strongest Biden
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: voters and the strongest Trump voters all hated was Mitch McConnell.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: It was like the one thing every person in the
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: focus group and all the focus groups agreed on was
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: that Mitch McConnell was garbage. So running against Mitch McConnell
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: in 2022, again, seems like a smart move. All right,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: let's listen to number three.
• 44:16
  Speaker 6: And I only wish that My friend Mike Pence had
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: that additional courage to send the results back to the legislatures.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Not for nothing. It's amazing to me that Trump still
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: thinks that Mike Pence had the power to send the
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: results back to the legislature.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: So that, look, it should be obvious. So there's a
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: story in Politico over the weekend that Pence is all
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: but gone from the ticket if Trump runs again, and
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: that they're viewing everyone who is considering running in 2024
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: as a potential running mate. And it was interesting to
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: read that because you don't often read about a former
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: vice president being jettisoned from a ticket, especially not a
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: successful ticket. But then to hear that riff over and
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: over and over again like of course he's gone of
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: course he's dead in the water he's just gone but
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: it's funny that Pence still thinks he has a chance
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: and is hitting the like chicken dinner circuit going to
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: all these Iowa dinners and stuff and thinks he's.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Like yeah look I mean that's real that's real optimism
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: a crowd of angry MAGA supporters were chanting for you
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: to be hung and then you still think you have
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: a chance with them that's optimism it's.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Um hey Mike if your date tries to hang ya
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: that's a deal breaker you know what I mean Like,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: they don't want you. They wanted to kill you. As
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: they always say. They wanted to kill you.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: The old saying.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: The people you're campaigning to win the votes of wanted
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: to kill you.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Tommy, to your point about the piece about Pence getting
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: jenisoned from the ticket, it really, all of the contenders
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: right now that are potentially running in 2024 are acting
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: more like they are doing an audition for Trump's VP
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: than they are candidates right now. Whether it's Kristi Noem,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: whether it's DeSantis. any of them, all they're doing is
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: sucking up to Trump as much as possible. They don't
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: seem like candidates who are running to win. They seem
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: like candidates who are running to be Donald Trump's vice president.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: It's 2016 dynamic all over again.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: It's the Jeb Bush dilemma there.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: NOMA is basically bashing the other Republicans, too, trying to say, like,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: these people tried to save their states from COVID, not me.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: Not this one.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: That's why I should be vice president.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Well, she also wants and she probably also wants Trump
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: to view DeSantis as a threat so that.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: Of course. Well, and also I think that just they're
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: waiting for the moment Trump decides it's time to. destroy
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis to make a point about what happens if
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: you poke your head up above the trench.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is why Ron DeSantis is being super nice
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: and not even obliquely making any contrast with Trump.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: But again, meanwhile, The Washington Post reported over the weekend
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: that Trump's super PAC has raised $ 75 million this year,
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: and none of it has gone toward these audits, these
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: attempts to, you know, overturn the election. So it's all bullshit.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why fund them when you can just talk about
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: them like they're the most important thing ever, but not
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: actually spend your limited money on them. All right, number two.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: The U.S.
• 46:57
  Speaker 6: Women's soccer team is a very good example of what's
• 47:00
  Speaker 6: going on. Earlier this week, they unexpectedly lost to Sweden
• 47:11
  Speaker 6: 3 to nothing. And Americans were happy about it. You
• 47:23
  Speaker 6: proved that point before I even said it.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: America first. He's got a crowd rooting against America in
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: favor of the socialist Swedes.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Well, they're white. The Swedes are white. The Swedes are
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: a white country.
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: He likes that.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: He always talks about Sweden.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: In this section, he said, wokeism makes you lose, ruins
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: your mind, ruins you as a person. Then he accused
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: the left of ruining baseball because the Cleveland Indians changed
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: their name to the Cleveland Guardians. Then he attacked LeBron
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: James and he said the ratings went up after his
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: team was defeated. So I guess Donald Trump's point is
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: that the ratings for the NBA finals were higher than
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: for the first round of the playoffs. That sort of
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: stands to reason. But it was a real rant, a
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: real anti-athlete, anti-American rant here that is stark.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Didn't it turn anti-trans at one point, too?
• 48:09
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: That was LeBron.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: He attacked transgender athletes.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: Quite a journey.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: Quite a journey.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: But I also think this is, you know, Mehdi and
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: I were talking about this on Thursday's pod, but an
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: example of, like, a culture war the Democrats should not
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: shy away from, right? Like, this guy is now against
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: American sports, right? Rooting against American athletes. That's not popular
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: with most of the country.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Again, right now, Chiron, the Fox News of the left
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: that doesn't exist for a full week, Republicans turn on
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: America's athletic heroes for a full week. And then it
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: would become a story. And then you'd start seeing it
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: in the polls that they have this anti-patriotism problem. But
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: of course, that won't happen because we have a, we're
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: fighting an asymmetric, uh... battle here but yeah i know
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: i mean i run it as a carolyn yet we
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: had a car on here we get our fox news
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: of the fox is of the left car.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: On right terrific the number the number one most batch
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: of crazy moment donald trump speech in arizona here it
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: is the.
• 49:06
  Speaker 6: County has for whatever reason also refused to produce the
• 49:10
  Speaker 6: network routers we want the routers sunny when do we
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: got to get those routers please The routers.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Come on, Kelly.
• 49:19
  Speaker 6: We can get those routers.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: Those routers. You know what?
• 49:23
  Speaker 6: We're so beyond the routers. There's so many fraudulent votes
• 49:26
  Speaker 6: without the routers. But if you got those routers.
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: What that will show.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: And they don't want to give up the routers. They
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: don't want to give them... They are fighting like hell.
• 49:35
  Speaker 6: Why are these commissioners fighting not to give the routers?
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: How simple could it be?
• 49:40
  Speaker 6: That will tell the truth.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Do you think he knows what a router is or
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: has ever seen a router?
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Do you guys know the backstory of where this came from?
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: No, and I didn't intend to learn it, but now...
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: You know what? We're here, and I want to hear it.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: I want to hear it.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I found out about the Cleveland Indians changing their name
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: to the Cleveland Guardians from you, so keep going.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: How did you miss that?
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: So.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, you're not a big sports guy. Thank you.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: Maricopa County, right? They're doing this audit. They're trying to
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: subpoena the network routers used by the county's election division
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: because the audit leaders think the voting machines were online.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: And that's how votes were electronically transferred from Trump to Biden.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: This is a part of this bigger, impossible to follow
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: conspiracy theory that alleges the election theft was orchestrated by
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: someone working in the U.S. embassy in Rome. the Italians
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: are behind this. And they used Italian military satellites to
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: change votes from Trump to Biden. And this was apparently
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: orchestrated by Obama, the former prime minister of Italy, Prime
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: Minister Renzi in the CIA. And it was basically manufactured
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: by some website group entity called Nations in Action.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: And so So it was an Italian job.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: It was an Italian job.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: By the way, I'm sorry. Italian military satellites? What are those?
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right. I don't know. And so what the people
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: in charge of the elections in Arizona are saying is, hey,
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: if we give you all our routers, it'll cost us
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: $ 6 million to replace them. But this is the disinformation problem, right?
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: He just every week. spouts something new, it's impossible to
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: disprove it. It's just endless.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: What does he think is in the routers? He enjoys
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: the word vote changing.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: It's the perfect kind of word for him.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Ballots are stuck in the routers.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: He doesn't know what a router is. He sees it there.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: He has some fun because it sounds technical. It sounds
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: like something you should try to get. He knows he
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: won't get them. He knows you don't need them. When
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: do you get the routers? Because he knows even without
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: the routers, he's still going to make the same argument.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: To make a serious point, this is the new kind
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: of conspiracy theory that is much harder to combat, which
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: is it's conspiracy without the theory. Like, Tommy just outlined
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: one version of the story.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: Which I now believe.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: Of course.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: They're calling it Italy Gate. Hundreds of thousands of views
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: on YouTube with videos about this.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: But really what they want is.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: To say the election is fraudulent, and then you say
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: the election is fraudulent, and it's a command to all
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: of these people to create a theory from the ground
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: up that can help make that argument. And so you
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: don't need any specific case. Trump doesn't need to latch
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: on any one kind of case, neither does evil dentist
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Paul Gosar. And what happens is all these people from
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: the ground up generate their own version of the truth.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: Any one of them is fine on any given day.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: The same thing happened with Benghazi. We're going to see
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: it over and over again. The same thing happened, I think,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: with some of the conspiracy theories around Hunter Biden. Rudy
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Giuliani generates these. And this is and so it's just
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: it's endless. There's no way to stop it because it's
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: It's from the ground up. It's not from the top down.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: They're complicated, and they're kind of lurid and detailed. Remember
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: in Atlanta, there was a water main break. They had
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: to leave the building, and they came back in, whatever.
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: Now he says that water main break on election night
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: was fake, that political operatives stuffed a bunch of ballots
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: with fake ballots that were under a table. He said
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: that people were so upset that they threw up watching it. Yeah,
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: I thought that. That's a pretty vivid scene. You'd think
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: it would be reported out. Somehow it has not that
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: the Italians hacked us. But again, like the fringe organization
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: no one's ever heard of. YouTube videos are it just
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: comes out of the president's mouth.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: And again, there's scary real life consequences here, in addition
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: to the fact that this is all barreling towards another
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: Trump run for president. But in Georgia today, now, because
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: of the new law, the Republican state legislature is moving,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: taking steps to take over elections in Fulton County. which
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: is the things that we were most worried about with
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: some of these voter restriction bills is the fact that
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Republicans are just going to try to take over nonpartisan
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: elections or elections where Republicans ran them who are not
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: sufficiently loyal to Donald Trump.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I also say, too, like this conspiratorial mindset, like infects
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: every aspect of our culture, including the resistance to the vaccine. And,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: you know, a lot of people gave Sean Hannity, I think,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: credit he didn't deserve for how he said how he
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: pointed people toward the vaccine. He said, you know, Research
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: it like crazy. Talk to your doctor. Many people, vaccine
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: is a good option. And then, of course, he comes
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: back and walks back and says, I never recommended the vaccine.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: I never recommended the vaccine. Because regardless of any one
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: instance of someone saying take it or don't take it,
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: they have built an entire ecosystem that is predicated on
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: the assumption that no one is telling you the truth.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Nothing you see is real. You can't believe any public
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: official ever, no matter what they say, unless it's Donald Trump,
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, or Tucker Carlson. And we pay
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: for it. in small ways and large ways every single day.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: They are pro-virus, anti-America.
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: There's the message.
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: That's all we have for today. Thank you to Adam
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Schiff for joining us. And we'll talk to you guys later.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Hot Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Flavia Casas.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Our associate producers are Jazzy Marine and Olivia Martinez. It's
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is our
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Caroline Rustin, and Justine Howe for production support. And to
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, Yale Freed,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: and Narmel Konian, who film and share our episodes as
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: videos every week.