Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Sibling Drama Unpacked: Building Bridges Instead of Walls | Ep. 143

Transcript

Sibling Drama Unpacked: Building Bridges Instead of Walls | Ep. 143 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  Raising more than one child brings a blend of sweet moments, and inevitable challenges.
• 0:14
  I'm Cheryl Lang, and I'm so glad you've joined me on the Parenting Podcast.
• 0:19
  Today, we're diving into the dynamic and often complicated relationships between brothers and sisters.
• 0:26
  From shared laughter to sibling squabbles, we'll explore how to foster deeper, lasting bonds, avoid the pitfalls of favoritism, and equip your kids with some tools to navigate their differences.
• 0:41
  With love and respect.
• 0:44
  Let's get started.
• 0:54
  Cheryl: so we haven't been together in a while.
• 0:55
  Cheryl: What y'all got going on?
• 0:56
  Cheryl: What you been doing?
• 0:58
  Ellen: I had a fun time the other day, uh, we went to the, um, City Museum, I hadn't been for a while, because there was an Edith Head, Exhibition, okay,
• 1:06
  Cheryl: my daughter went to, she loved it, yeah, it was
• 1:08
  Ellen: beautiful, if you don't know who she is, she's a famous, um, Hollywood fashion designer, starting in the 19, I think, 30's, she started designing up into 1981,
• 1:19
  Cheryl: yeah,
• 1:20
  Ellen: that
• 1:20
  Cheryl: was incredible, wow, till
• 1:21
  Ellen: the 80's, yeah, she's the only name
• 1:23
  Cheryl: I ever knew,
• 1:23
  Ellen: yes.
• 1:24
  Ellen: So, almost every major, uh, motion picture she designed the costumes for.
• 1:28
  Ellen: Wow.
• 1:30
  Ellen: So, it was really beautiful.
• 1:30
  Ellen: The whole bottom floor of the museum was filled, and it was done by a local woman, so that was really interesting, because she curated the whole thing.
• 1:38
  Ellen: So, we spent a couple hours in there, just enjoying these just beautiful gowns.
• 1:43
  Ellen: So,
• 1:43
  Cheryl: did they have mannequins with the counts on them, or?
• 1:45
  Cheryl: Yeah, but without heads.
• 1:46
  Cheryl: They just had, so they,
• 1:47
  Ellen: you're really just seeing the clothing.
• 1:50
  Ellen: And then they had to be really careful with the backdrops because the clothing was so beautiful.
• 1:55
  Ellen: You didn't want your backdrop to be distracting.
• 1:58
  Ellen: So they, so they did, they were very artful and that was what struck me too.
• 2:02
  Ellen: So they didn't clash with the clothes, which I thought was, you know, very clever and hard to do.
• 2:07
  Christie: What a fun project for them to work on.
• 2:08
  Christie: I'm sure they had a blast.
• 2:10
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:10
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:11
  Christie: I know a piece of trivia about her.
• 2:13
  Christie: I don't, I'm not very familiar with her, but, um, you know the character in The Incredibles that is named Edith?
• 2:20
  Christie: Do you guys know the movie?
• 2:21
  Christie: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:22
  Christie: She has the black bob and the glasses.
• 2:25
  Christie: I was inspired by her.
• 2:26
  Christie: She can, she designs the costumes for The Incredibles.
• 2:30
  Christie: Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
• 2:31
  Christie: And that was where they got their inspiration for the character.
• 2:34
  Christie: And
• 2:34
  Ellen: I'm looking forward to reading a bio about her because she's really interesting because she's always had that black bobbed off kind of hair.
• 2:41
  Ellen: Which was really unattractive.
• 2:42
  Ellen: Uh huh.
• 2:43
  Ellen: And she didn't.
• 2:44
  Ellen: Even in her personal life, seemed to wear very glamorous clothes.
• 2:49
  Ellen: She wore a lot of business suits and was very low key, so that when she was on set, they would just see her clothes.
• 2:58
  And then one last thing of
• 2:59
  Ellen: interest, she wore those little black glasses.
• 3:03
  Ellen: And she wore them all the time because when she designed something, especially in the days when it was just before Technicolor, she had to see what it's like in black and white.
• 3:12
  Ellen: So with the glasses on, these beautiful clothes she could then see designed in black and white.
• 3:17
  Ellen: Wow.
• 3:19
  Christie: That's really neat.
• 3:20
  Christie: I wish I would have gone to the exhibit now.
• 3:21
  Christie: Yeah, I mean, I feel a little, um, lame now because I haven't really done anything fun.
• 3:28
  Christie: But I love country music.
• 3:29
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:30
  Christie: Oh.
• 3:30
  Christie: And we went to the, I don't think I knew that.
• 3:32
  Christie: You didn't?
• 3:33
  Christie: No, I didn't either.
• 3:34
  Christie: Oh, man.
• 3:35
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:35
  Christie: I love, it's just a thing for me.
• 3:37
  Christie: And like, well, you're in the right state.
• 3:39
  Christie: Right.
• 3:39
  Christie: Good country music.
• 3:40
  Christie: Not modern day country music.
• 3:42
  Christie: Yeah, they are.
• 3:43
  Christie: Pop country.
• 3:43
  Christie: I like the old, yeah, I like the old stuff better.
• 3:46
  Christie: So, anyway, we went to the, The Oklahoma Opry.
• 3:49
  Christie: Okay it was great.
• 3:51
  Christie: It was, it was fun.
• 3:52
  Christie: What is it?
• 3:53
  Christie: Well, it's like a miniature Oklahoma version of the Grand Ole Opry.
• 3:57
  Christie: I mean, it's what they're aiming to do.
• 3:59
  Christie: And so they have local artists there, and I think they do, um, Classes and then they also have a program that's guitars for vets.
• 4:07
  Christie: So they do Um guitar classes for veterans and then they can have a they have a performance and they get a guitar at the end of the
• 4:16
  Cheryl: Yeah
• 4:16
  Christie: to help with
• 4:17
  Cheryl: so did you just watch it or did y'all do line dancing or anything?
• 4:20
  Cheryl: No, there was no
• 4:20
  Christie: dancing.
• 4:21
  Christie: That would have been fun.
• 4:22
  Christie: I was sure they would have so it was just straight
• 4:23
  Cheryl: music
• 4:24
  Christie: Yeah, yeah, it was just a performance.
• 4:25
  Christie: I had probably I think there were maybe 10 performers from that's pretty good Your uncle mother's I think a couple from texas that came in and yeah, it was a lot of fun
• 4:34
  Cheryl: About 20 years ago, I started friendship with a couple and they have a background rodeo and all of this.
• 4:43
  Cheryl: And I finally said one time, do I have to like country and western music to be a friend?
• 4:49
  Cheryl: You know.
• 4:49
  Cheryl: Did she
• 4:49
  Christie: give you a pass?
• 4:50
  Cheryl: They gave me a pass.
• 4:51
  Cheryl: Okay, good.
• 4:51
  Cheryl: Because I'm, Selective.
• 4:53
  Cheryl: Uh huh.
• 4:54
  Cheryl: Uh huh.
• 4:54
  Cheryl: I am, too.
• 4:55
  Cheryl: There's certain, like, I love, like, Cotton Eye Joe.
• 4:57
  Cheryl: Love it.
• 4:58
  Cheryl: No, that's really getting back there.
• 4:59
  Cheryl: Like, I like Beyonce's crossover.
• 5:02
  Cheryl: Oh, yeah?
• 5:03
  Cheryl: So, I like a good beat.
• 5:04
  Cheryl: Yeah, no, I love
• 5:05
  Christie: that.
• 5:05
  Christie: It's just, Yeah.
• 5:06
  Christie: Doesn't feel like country music.
• 5:10
  Christie: Oh my.
• 5:10
  Christie: But yeah, I,
• 5:12
  Cheryl: Uhhuh with a, with more modern country.
• 5:13
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:13
  Cheryl: But you're gonna do it right?
• 5:14
  Cheryl: Beyonce knows how to do it.
• 5:15
  Cheryl: Right,
• 5:16
  Christie: right, right.
• 5:16
  Christie: I always wanted to be a barrel racer.
• 5:18
  Christie: You talk about rodeo rodeos and see that's what
• 5:19
  Cheryl: My sister
• 5:20
  Ellen: used to barrel race.
• 5:21
  Ellen: Oh, really?
• 5:22
  Ellen: Yeah, she was, yeah.
• 5:23
  Ellen: I didn't
• 5:23
  Cheryl: know that.
• 5:23
  Ellen: Yeah, she rode horses.
• 5:25
  Ellen: I was offered to ride horses.
• 5:28
  Ellen: Did you want a horse?
• 5:28
  Ellen: I'm like, no.
• 5:31
  Ellen: I'll watch my sister.
• 5:32
  Ellen: I would help her clean stables just so we could hang out together.
• 5:37
  Ellen: So I've shoveled a lot of manure.
• 5:39
  Ellen: But while we talked girl, I guess
• 5:44
  Cheryl: an unplanned great segue.
• 5:47
  Cheryl: Because you're talking about your sister and actually shoveling manure.
• 5:52
  Cheryl: Yes, sometimes, you know, siblings turn out to be a mixed bag.
• 5:58
  Cheryl: Yes, of what we want.
• 5:59
  Cheryl: So let's talk about siblings, um, and the relationships it's been one of the questions a lot of parents have asked me over the years.
• 6:09
  Cheryl: And so how about if we dive into that and talk about like what it is, pros and cons and, and then get into some of the more difficult parts.
• 6:19
  Ellen: My sister was the perfect sister to steal from because it was just my sister and I.
• 6:26
  Ellen: She was a hoarder.
• 6:27
  Ellen: So whatever she had, she hoarded.
• 6:29
  Ellen: She had a drawer.
• 6:31
  Ellen: This, I did not steal, but she had a drawer full of animal bones.
• 6:35
  Ellen: What?
• 6:35
  Ellen: Because she'd go out walking in the desert and find animal bones and bring them.
• 6:39
  Ellen: What an interesting story you had.
• 6:41
  Ellen: She was a crack up.
• 6:42
  Ellen: But then after Halloween, I have eaten all my candy probably in the first two weeks.
• 6:47
  Ellen: Uh huh.
• 6:48
  Ellen: She would have candy under her bed in a box for months.
• 6:52
  Ellen: Uh huh.
• 6:53
  Ellen: Yes, because she would just nibble it.
• 6:55
  Ellen: So my dad and I would take turns going in, stealing, stealing candy from, yes, exactly.
• 7:00
  Ellen: When she wasn't around, let's go get some candy.
• 7:03
  Ellen: So she was great because she was a really good hoarder and if you needed something you'd just go in her room and find it.
• 7:09
  Ellen: I just used to go in her room out of sheer interest because she kept so many weird things.
• 7:14
  Ellen: I'd just look through her drawers Uh huh.
• 7:17
  Ellen: Just like I was in a museum.
• 7:18
  Ellen: I'm like, Oh my gosh, why did she keep this?
• 7:20
  Cheryl: Oh, that's hilarious.
• 7:22
  Cheryl: It's true.
• 7:22
  Cheryl: She was funny.
• 7:23
  Cheryl: Okay, we've established that I was a good kid.
• 7:26
  Cheryl: My older brother was a different case.
• 7:28
  Cheryl: but I got along so well with my sisters.
• 7:31
  Cheryl: So much that when my children got older, and we would talk about, because we talked a lot about their sibling relationships in our family, and how to deal with them, and I said, I never argued with my sisters, and they go, Mom, ask them.
• 7:46
  Cheryl: So when we went to Louisiana, where they live, they asked both of them, you know, my mom said, y'all never argued, and they said, Nope, she's right.
• 7:54
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 7:55
  Cheryl: Never.
• 7:55
  Cheryl: That's impressive.
• 7:56
  Cheryl: That's impressive.
• 7:56
  Cheryl: You know, uh, so I'm a peacekeeper and I kind of tended my little lambs.
• 8:00
  Cheryl: My
• 8:00
  Ellen: sister was happy that she survived.
• 8:03
  Cheryl: You
• 8:03
  Ellen: know, because I probably
• 8:05
  Cheryl: decked her at least once a week.
• 8:08
  Cheryl: But they, like I said, it was a different relationship with my older brother.
• 8:11
  Cheryl: It was, there was complications there.
• 8:13
  Cheryl: But, one of the things my kids are shocked about is I would go, Hi Dorothy, look, you have that little tiny dime, and I have these big nickels.
• 8:24
  Cheryl: How about if we trade?
• 8:26
  Cheryl: And so was always trading like that.
• 8:29
  Cheryl: The tricking trade.
• 8:30
  Cheryl: That's my really
• 8:31
  Ellen: terrible That was your skill, was you could trick her.
• 8:34
  Christie: I remember, you know, we had four girls, and I remember when we found out our second daughter was a girl.
• 8:39
  Christie: And I thought, Oh, I was just so excited.
• 8:42
  Christie: They're going to share clothes and they're going to have a good time sharing.
• 8:45
  Christie: I just thought sisters was going to be so sweet and kind of had rose colored glasses on what, which I should have known better.
• 8:52
  Christie: I, in high school, I lived with a family with three girls for a while and we would put our initials on the bottoms of our socks so that we knew, because we had one closet for all, you know, everybody's.
• 9:04
  Christie: And they, if someone in that household saw their initial on your foot, they would rip those socks off.
• 9:11
  Christie: I should have known that girls can be something else with their
• 9:14
  Cheryl: clothes, a little territorial.
• 9:16
  Cheryl: So there are challenges, but there are wonderful things about having siblings and being a sibling.
• 9:23
  Christie: Right.
• 9:23
  Cheryl: What are some of the things like for yourself or that you can see?
• 9:27
  Cheryl: for me, I, first thing I would say is companionship, because I always had somebody to play with, and I was an extrovert, and I enjoyed people, and there you have it built in, and then because I was the older sister, I go, this is great, I have these built in little people that I can say, now we're going to play this, come here, and so I was all the one with ideas, and they just followed along, and I designed it, so I love it.
• 9:52
  Cheryl: of the camaraderie and the companionship and, um, I just had a flashback remembering sitting on twin beds with my sister and I was making up this big fantastic story and we were on a ranch or something because I loved horses and we were going to have to climb out the window and escape and I was telling the story and suddenly she just burst into tears.
• 10:13
  Cheryl: I don't know.
• 10:14
  Cheryl: I said, Dorothy, what's wrong?
• 10:15
  Cheryl: She goes, Oh, I don't want to have to run away, you know, wait, wait, wait, this is the pretend story we're doing.
• 10:23
  Cheryl: Oh, it was so good.
• 10:24
  Cheryl: I was thinking it was really happening.
• 10:28
  Cheryl: What are some of the other benefits y'all see in having siblings?
• 10:32
  Christie: Well, I don't know if it feels like a benefit at the time, but, um, You know, I think having to share space and share things and share, you know, relationships with your parents and all of that is good to have.
• 10:47
  Christie: It's a long term benefit, but
• 10:49
  Ellen: in the short term, you don't always appreciate it.
• 10:51
  Christie: Right.
• 10:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:52
  Christie: You're learning how to live in community with other people and some social skills.
• 10:56
  Cheryl: It really is.
• 10:57
  Cheryl: I mean.
• 10:58
  Cheryl: And we could cite all these things from psychologists because they say this is the benefit of it.
• 11:03
  Cheryl: And I will tell you, having been in parenting ministry for a long time, this is a question I get asked a lot by parents of only children.
• 11:12
  Cheryl: You know, how do we build community?
• 11:15
  Cheryl: How do we teach them to share?
• 11:17
  Cheryl: Because we're not going to grab the crayons out of their hands, you know.
• 11:20
  Cheryl: Siblings are automatic, built in community cooperation.
• 11:24
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:24
  Cheryl: Conflict resolution, because you get conflict.
• 11:27
  Cheryl: All of that sort of stuff, even though the child may not enjoy it.
• 11:31
  Cheryl: Right.
• 11:32
  Cheryl: From a developmental standpoint, it's a boon.
• 11:35
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:36
  Cheryl: It's really good.
• 11:36
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:37
  Cheryl: It is very good.
• 11:38
  Ellen: Well, it's just nice.
• 11:39
  Ellen: I mean, everybody has different times, probably with a sibling or their siblings that are good or bad.
• 11:46
  Ellen: But, I mean, hopefully in the long run it's a good thing.
• 11:50
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 11:50
  Ellen: You know, you may have You have your moments growing up where you can't stand each other, or you get along really good or there's a rift later on, but hopefully you're able to iron those all out because the roots of your love for each other go really deep.
• 12:04
  Cheryl: That's what I was going to say Having lost my older brother, like I said, that was a challenging relationship.
• 12:12
  Cheryl: It would have been peace from my side, but it was a challenge, okay?
• 12:16
  Cheryl: But what you just said, even though we lived in different cities.
• 12:20
  Cheryl: When he died a few years ago, I felt the immense loss to my childhood because we did so many things together.
• 12:27
  Cheryl: He taught me to fish and to love the woods and to love nature.
• 12:30
  Cheryl: And if you know me, I love that.
• 12:32
  Cheryl: because of Frank, you know, I can fish, I can pick up snakes, frogs, none of it bothers me.
• 12:37
  Cheryl: Because of him, we used to just go in the woods and do all of that.
• 12:40
  Cheryl: And just the shared life that we had, I really felt the loss.
• 12:46
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:46
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:47
  Cheryl: But that was the same
• 12:48
  Ellen: with me because my sister died.
• 12:50
  Ellen: Young and I mean she was 50 but she was my only sibling
• 12:54
  So
• 12:54
  Ellen: all our memories were gone.
• 12:56
  Ellen: Yeah, everything we shared together the things we could laugh about how we made fun of our parents Sometimes all those things were just completely there's nobody can to share those with nobody understands them What it's like.
• 13:07
  Christie: Well, and there's not another relationship in your life that knows you from the beginning, you know, depending on how close you are in age, but from the beginning knows every inside joke, memory, you know, hobby you've been through and can really say they've seen you at your best and worst all the way through the years.
• 13:25
  Cheryl: And that's what the scientists and the studies all say that there's just this of great benefit to an adult and growing up with siblings.
• 13:35
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:36
  Cheryl: Absolutely.
• 13:36
  Cheryl: Absolutely.
• 13:36
  Cheryl: Absolutely.
• 13:36
  Cheryl: And then the first book I ever heard anyone produce on siblings was called The Scourge of Sibling Rivalry.
• 13:47
  Cheryl: And so that's the other question that I have.
• 13:50
  Cheryl: Parents of only children talking about what do we do without siblings?
• 13:54
  Cheryl: And then parents saying, what do we do with! siblings?
• 14:00
  Cheryl: About the rivalry.
• 14:02
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 14:02
  Cheryl: And so let's spend some time, cause that's the hard part everybody enjoys the good parts
• 14:08
  Ellen: Well that's the exhausting part.
• 14:09
  Ellen: It is so.
• 14:10
  Ellen: Cause when the kids are fighting with each other.
• 14:12
  Christie: Well, and I think, you know, it's important to, to think about the difference between rivalry and just, Yeah.
• 14:19
  Christie: Your average fighting of just having to live in close spaces together and overlapping lives.
• 14:24
  Cheryl: I agree.
• 14:25
  Cheryl: but, I think that's the problem living close together.
• 14:28
  Cheryl: You're just going to rub, which is the benefit.
• 14:30
  Cheryl: You learn to how to do relationships, but you have it, you know, right.
• 14:34
  Cheryl: And you have, their piece is bigger than mine.
• 14:37
  Cheryl: They're not doing that.
• 14:38
  Cheryl: Right.
• 14:38
  Cheryl: Let them sit in the front seat.
• 14:40
  Cheryl: And I didn't get to sit in the front seat.
• 14:41
  Cheryl: There's things that you
• 14:42
  Ellen: didn't even notice.
• 14:43
  Ellen: I didn't realize that piece was a millimeter bigger than your piece.
• 14:47
  Christie: Sorry.
• 14:48
  Christie: But those things are just different people living life together.
• 14:52
  Christie: Rivalry is more.
• 14:54
  Christie: That's true.
• 14:54
  Christie: Deeper.
• 14:55
  Christie: Right.
• 14:56
  Christie: It's kind of a vicious hatred for another person.
• 14:58
  Christie: So
• 14:58
  Cheryl: The term rivalry, I think, is we're just talking about the rubbing of one life against another within normal, healthy family.
• 15:06
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 15:07
  Cheryl: All right.
• 15:07
  Cheryl: So, and it's the competition, all of these things, and it just happens.
• 15:14
  Ellen: And, you know, I think parents do play a role in it.
• 15:17
  Ellen: It is naturally there.
• 15:18
  Ellen: I think you get five people in a room and there's going to be competition.
• 15:23
  Ellen: That's just human nature.
• 15:24
  Ellen: But as parents, we're the one who are asked to kind of stay on top of it as much as we can and pay attention.
• 15:30
  Ellen: Or are we putting our kids in a position where, gosh, look what your sister did.
• 15:36
  Ellen: She did such a good job.
• 15:38
  Ellen: So does that mean I did a lousy job?
• 15:41
  Ellen: So those are those little subtle things that create rivalry, even if you're not meaning to.
• 15:46
  Cheryl: A lot of times it's so much easier for a third party to see it.
• 15:51
  Cheryl: Like if you're with a group of your family or some friends or something, you can see it a little bit.
• 15:58
  Cheryl: Like what you're talking about taking sides.
• 16:03
  Cheryl: I didn't grow up with you, but all I've ever heard is your parents did not understand the idea of don't take sides or show favoritism.
• 16:12
  Cheryl: Oh, no, yeah,
• 16:12
  Ellen: they were, I mean, people in the family would say to my mom and dad, you're showing favoritism to, my little sister.
• 16:21
  Ellen: And it's
• 16:21
  Cheryl: really important because back in the day people didn't do that.
• 16:24
  Ellen: Yeah I mean it was like an observation, but they were telling my mom, you know, we're seeing this it's very obvious and then Also, my friends would see that they would come over all the way from elementary school through high school They would say oh we can tell who your mom likes the best.
• 16:41
  Ellen: I mean, it was that obvious well, and my personality, especially being the older one, I tended to be more assertive, more aggressive.
• 16:49
  Ellen: I agree.
• 16:49
  Ellen: And mostly.
• 16:50
  Ellen: Firstborns are used to getting the, they're the bosses of everything and my sister was an introvert and she was kind of quiet and So we would get into some kind of skirmish or some kind of fight and my parents This is probably what started a lot of the rivalry would always Almost always take my sister's side.
• 17:08
  Ellen: They didn't realize the subtle things that went on behind because quiet people can be just as ornery as outgoing people and what they do.
• 17:16
  Ellen: And so then I would get in trouble and my mom would send me off to my room, but then she'd take my sister and sit and hold her, you know, so that really hurt, but all it did was fuel.
• 17:28
  Ellen: The rivalry and the dislike towards my sister because I was so young.
• 17:32
  Ellen: I didn't understand.
• 17:33
  Ellen: That was my mother's problem.
• 17:35
  Ellen: Not my sister.
• 17:35
  Ellen: She didn't, of course, and it's not
• 17:37
  Cheryl: you, right?
• 17:38
  Cheryl: Because the rejection of you and you know, you said a lot of time there's a subtlety going underneath because If you can watch it.
• 17:45
  Cheryl: It is true.
• 17:46
  Cheryl: There's the little goading and stuff, but even without it, even when one is clearly wrong, you know, parents have to be so careful because that is like the number one thing.
• 17:58
  Cheryl: Favoritism.
• 17:59
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:01
  Cheryl: And taking sides is like one of the number one things that turns normal conflict and sibling relationships into a rivalry or really hurting someone's heart.
• 18:12
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:13
  Cheryl: And so even if your sister had been as perfect as your mother acted like she did, it was still so wrong what she did.
• 18:21
  Ellen: And it was neat because as we grew older, like into early adulthood, you know, she and I would talk about and she said, well, of course I wasn't aware That that's how it was and I'm really sorry because she wound up having eight children.
• 18:35
  Ellen: Yes, when I presented some things and she said, yeah, yeah, I can see how all that happened.
• 18:39
  Ellen: I just didn't understand.
• 18:41
  Ellen: And I go, yeah.
• 18:42
  Ellen: And I blamed you because you were the object.
• 18:44
  Ellen: I can put my blame on.
• 18:45
  Ellen: Well, and you were both
• 18:46
  Christie: children.
• 18:47
  Christie: Correct.
• 18:47
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:47
  Christie: Yes.
• 18:48
  Ellen: And so we wound up, you know, in adulthood being very good friends and loving each other and, you know, once you could see things clearly, yeah, you just need the adult perspective.
• 18:57
  Ellen: Right.
• 18:57
  Ellen: And, you know, she didn't realize.
• 18:59
  Ellen: You know how that seemed until she became a parent and that's
• 19:04
  Christie: great Ellen that takes a lot of humility on both of your part Yeah to have seen that and and let the past be the past Yeah, cuz we
• 19:10
  Ellen: kind of made up for years or we could have been friends, right?
• 19:13
  Ellen: Then now we get we got to be friends.
• 19:15
  Ellen: At least I can say we had really really good for late.
• 19:17
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 19:18
  Christie: Yeah, I think Yeah It can also sneak into the favoritism without us even noticing it.
• 19:24
  Christie: For sure.
• 19:25
  Christie: I know, I remember the time that I realized I was more likely to ask certain kids for help to do, you know, like, Oh, bring me this.
• 19:35
  Christie: I'm changing the baby or, you know, that kind of thing because they were more compliant or more efficient on what I was asking.
• 19:42
  Christie: Usually the older ones, but not always, you know, and then I just realized it was really off balance.
• 19:48
  Christie: Like, you know, I was putting all the weight on one or two kids most of the time.
• 19:52
  Christie: And so, or, you know, personalities.
• 19:54
  Christie: I know my husband and I have had conversations about our girls at different times and one of us is seeing from one side because our personalities are more similar or you know, he might be seeing another kid's perspective more clearly because they have a similar personality.
• 20:08
  Cheryl: That's one thing I'd recommend is If you're married, talk with your spouse I did a
• 20:14
  Ellen: lot of that.
• 20:14
  Ellen: I go, I did not understand why she's crying right now.
• 20:18
  Ellen: This is what I said.
• 20:20
  Ellen: And then he would explain.
• 20:22
  Ellen: And then I go,
• 20:23
  Cheryl: Oh,
• 20:24
  Ellen: I can see why she's crying.
• 20:26
  Cheryl: Oh, that hurt her feelings.
• 20:28
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 20:29
  Cheryl: You know, and it's so hard even, when you're trying not to do it.
• 20:32
  Cheryl: You are dealing with immature little people and we're becoming, as the adult, and it's very hard to walk that line.
• 20:41
  Cheryl: And one of the things is, I would recommend not being a referee when there's conflict.
• 20:48
  Cheryl: Okay, now, Ellen and I differ a little bit.
• 20:50
  Cheryl: She's a little bit more let em work it out.
• 20:53
  Cheryl: But, um, I am super sensitive to bullies.
• 20:57
  Cheryl: And so, I don't like any kind of bullying.
• 21:00
  Cheryl: And so, the problem is, a lot of times, if you let em work it out, the stronger personality, not necessarily stronger physically, but the stronger personality will kind of bully the milder one Ahh! And I wish I had been trained in conflict resolution more than referee, because you get involved and he said, she said, you know, and And then you're mad at the end because you're exhausted trying to figure it out.
• 21:25
  Cheryl: I just wish I'd had more skills in conflict resolution wording.
• 21:28
  Cheryl: Uh huh.
• 21:29
  Cheryl: And, uh, this is a little plug for this little infomercial.
• 21:33
  Cheryl: We're getting ready to do a series on boundaries with kids.
• 21:36
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 21:37
  Cheryl: You know?
• 21:38
  Cheryl: And like that, I wish I'd had that kind of equipping to kind of work with my kids to give them the tools.
• 21:43
  Cheryl: I mean, I can remember.
• 21:45
  Cheryl: There was a conflict, and so I'm going, okay, let's talk it out, Well, I was over reading my Bible and I was praying for all people in the world and she just ran over and hit me.
• 21:58
  Cheryl: Uh huh.
• 21:58
  Cheryl: No, no, no.
• 21:59
  Cheryl: I, you know.
• 22:00
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 22:00
  Cheryl: And they both have this wonderful story.
• 22:03
  Cheryl: Great story, yes.
• 22:03
  Cheryl: That is absolutely irreconcilable.
• 22:05
  Cheryl: Right.
• 22:06
  Cheryl: You know, and I don't know if I had better tools for what we would go back with.
• 22:10
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 22:10
  Cheryl: That's one of the ones you go.
• 22:12
  Cheryl: There's no way.
• 22:13
  Cheryl: Right.
• 22:13
  Cheryl: My youngest
• 22:14
  Ellen: daughter and her brother, who's three years older, they would always have these little squabbles, so I would come in in the middle of it, and she'd be sitting there, you know, with her halo, and, um, She's the younger one.
• 22:26
  Ellen: Yeah, she's the baby.
• 22:27
  Ellen: And my son would be really upset, and he's showing it and saying it.
• 22:31
  Ellen: So when I would take a moment to find out what happened, it usually was he did something that they had agreed upon, but then at the end, she decided she didn't like how he's doing it.
• 22:42
  Ellen: Oh, no.
• 22:42
  Ellen: So very subtly, she would do stuff like move something or just touch him or whatever.
• 22:49
  Ellen: Yes.
• 22:49
  Ellen: And he would be the one that would blow up.
• 22:51
  Ellen: But when I'd actually Talk to them.
• 22:53
  Ellen: I, it really was her who was shining halo.
• 22:57
  Ellen: Right.
• 22:57
  Ellen: Who really wasn't being, the girls are good at that.
• 22:59
  Cheryl: The passive aggression being a littley sneaker.
• 23:01
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 23:02
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 23:02
  Cheryl: Well, and, and it, with my first two definitely had the, um, articulate older sister who loved to tell little brother everything to do, and he was more compliant.
• 23:13
  Cheryl: Mm-Hmm.
• 23:14
  Cheryl: Willing to go out or I do it and they didn't really have any conflict until about age 10 and then he decided Rebecca, I can remember to breathe on my own.
• 23:26
  Cheryl: And so that's when they really started having conflict, was when the younger one started to fight back against the other one telling him what to do.
• 23:35
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 23:36
  Ellen: And, and then I was the, just stay out of it, just let them work it out, give them a few little tools, but then they'll figure it out.
• 23:44
  Ellen: And if afterwards, I would say, did you guys work it out?
• 23:48
  Ellen: And one kid go, well, this is da, da, da, happened, and I said, well, that didn't sound very fair.
• 23:52
  Ellen: I think you still need to go back and work that out.
• 23:54
  Ellen: Oh, that's good.
• 23:54
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 23:54
  Ellen: You know, so you can do a double check.
• 23:55
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 23:56
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:56
  Christie: That's, I'm sitting here thinking how I usually handled that.
• 23:59
  Christie: Things it was kind of a hybrid of what you guys are talking about.
• 24:02
  Christie: I, I would listen in while they were working the thing out.
• 24:06
  Christie: And then if I needed to step in, because some were a little more passive and quiet than others.
• 24:10
  Christie: And so they needed an advocate.
• 24:13
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:13
  Christie: And, you know, sometimes I would do that.
• 24:15
  Christie: Well, and sometimes I wouldn't.
• 24:16
  Christie: And it's tricky because Like you said, the dominant personalities can bulldoze over, and it can go on for quite some time
• 24:25
  Cheryl: but then, a lot of times, what you're saying, the compliant, is just doing the passive aggressive Thing.
• 24:32
  Cheryl: So I think what we're saying is we have a lot of messy people Yeah.
• 24:36
  Cheryl: in a messy, wonderful relationship.
• 24:39
  Cheryl: Right.
• 24:40
  Cheryl: And then how to figure it out.
• 24:41
  Ellen: And teaching each personality how to use their strengths for good.
• 24:45
  Ellen: Right.
• 24:45
  Christie: Well, I think that's a big key too is helping create an environment in your household that everyone's celebrating each other's strengths.
• 24:53
  Christie: That I really like.
• 24:54
  Christie: And appreciating each other's weaknesses.
• 24:56
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:56
  Christie: And showing compassion towards those.
• 24:58
  Christie: And my girls are all very different.
• 25:00
  Christie: In fact they always shared rooms so we had two in each bedroom.
• 25:03
  Christie: And, which is where we Both bedrooms had a tidy person and a sloppier person and we would talk about all that.
• 25:11
  Christie: They would get so frustrated.
• 25:13
  Christie: The tidy person would be annoyed, you know, and so the tidy people kept saying, why can we not share a room with each other and put the messies in another room?
• 25:23
  Christie: And I would tell them, you will probably marry someone opposite of you and this is a great opportunity to live in the same room with someone that, you know, it is a benefit of of having siblings, That's true.
• 25:33
  Cheryl: One of the things I learned from somebody and I wish I had been equipped with this way, way back talking with the children about showing respect and we just didn't have the word respect that, you know, you might disagree on this, but we're going to treat them with respect, whatever it is.
• 25:50
  Christie: good
• 25:51
  Cheryl: Actually, um, they would say, you know, who made your sister?
• 25:56
  Cheryl: God did.
• 25:57
  Cheryl: That's right.
• 25:58
  Cheryl: So because of the
• 25:59
  Ellen: devil did
• 26:02
  Cheryl: But that's you know reminding them.
• 26:04
  Cheryl: Yeah, the Perspective work, you know and reminding that we talk about no, we're gonna be respectful to one another because who made each other And but I really love that because one core principles we have here at TPP, even, is the dignity, value, and worth of each person.
• 26:22
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:22
  Christie: Yes
• 26:23
  Cheryl: And to speak into that in a positive vein, so that even though they might kind of be rolling their eyes a little bit, we're just laying this wonderful groundwork to hopefully, as they grow, it becomes one of their core values.
• 26:37
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:38
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:38
  Christie: We had a definition for respect at our house, and I think I stole it for some, someone along the way.
• 26:43
  Christie: Um, all the good stuff is stolen, but, uh, it was treating others well because they are important.
• 26:49
  Christie: This is a good story.
• 26:50
  Christie: And it was a little rhyme y way for the girls to have that ingrained in their minds, and then we could use it when we needed to,
• 26:56
  Cheryl: Another one we would say is What actually is love?
• 27:00
  Cheryl: It's always doing what's best for the other person.
• 27:03
  Cheryl: And so we talk about that.
• 27:04
  Cheryl: So remember, we're going to show love to one another.
• 27:07
  Cheryl: How do we do it?
• 27:08
  Cheryl: And love doesn't mean ooey gooey.
• 27:10
  Cheryl: I mean, that doesn't mean you have to kiss and make up.
• 27:12
  Cheryl: You don't have to do that, but we're going to try to have some resolution and we're going to act.
• 27:18
  Cheryl: In a way that's best for the other person.
• 27:21
  Ellen: And that's going to be, for some children, that's an hour by hour reinforcement.
• 27:27
  Ellen: For other kids, you might just have to be once a week, remind them.
• 27:29
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 27:30
  Ellen: You know.
• 27:31
  Cheryl: But, and one of the things is also, like you're talking about being in the room with each other, you know, That's a lot of pressure and see, we had a small home for most of our growing up years with our kids.
• 27:42
  Cheryl: And so they were all on top of each other a lot and trying to find ways to give them some space so that they could be themselves.
• 27:51
  Cheryl: They don't have to share everything, right?
• 27:54
  Cheryl: You know, there's time.
• 27:55
  Cheryl: And so one of the phrases now I use with all my grandchildren is It's mine.
• 28:00
  Cheryl: Wait, wait, wait.
• 28:01
  Cheryl: But I had it first.
• 28:02
  Cheryl: Let's talk about this.
• 28:03
  Cheryl: Okay?
• 28:04
  Cheryl: Now, here's what you can say when you're finished.
• 28:07
  Cheryl: May I please have a turn?
• 28:08
  Mm hmm.
• 28:09
  And so we talk
• 28:10
  Cheryl: like that.
• 28:10
  Cheryl: And then particularly saying, by the way, Particularly the young ones.
• 28:13
  Cheryl: If you watch real quickly, if you don't make a deal about it,
• 28:16
  Ellen: yeah,
• 28:16
  Cheryl: they're moved over.
• 28:18
  Cheryl: But particularly just giving them words for conflict resolution.
• 28:21
  Cheryl: I love that.
• 28:23
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:23
  Christie: Because we're really, I mean, we talk about this every episode I feel like about equipping our kids, their adult lives.
• 28:30
  Christie: And I can remember the whole, um, that's not fair conversation with my kids.
• 28:35
  Christie: And I remember one time I said, you know, here's the thing is when you guys are adults, there's going to be unfair circumstances.
• 28:41
  Christie: One of you is going to have money you don't know what to do with.
• 28:44
  Christie: The other one's not going to have what they want.
• 28:45
  Christie: You know, you're going to have kids you don't want and you're not going to have the kids you do want or the spouse or, you know, all the different circumstances that could come along in life.
• 28:53
  Christie: This is just the dress rehearsal, you know, for the rest of your days.
• 28:56
  Christie: And I don't know how much of that sunk in, but I attempted to get it through.
• 29:00
  Ellen: That's what I would just say.
• 29:01
  Ellen: Sorry.
• 29:01
  Ellen: Life's not right.
• 29:03
  Ellen: Right.
• 29:03
  Christie: Okay.
• 29:03
  Ellen: Well, that's
• 29:04
  Christie: essentially what I was getting at.
• 29:06
  Christie: Well, yeah, because there's different circumstances for different kids and different days and yeah, it's not.
• 29:11
  Christie: And life is not fair.
• 29:12
  Christie: No,
• 29:12
  Cheryl: it's not.
• 29:13
  Cheryl: You know, I think somebody say only snow white.
• 29:17
  Cheryl: is fair, so I don't know.
• 29:20
  Cheryl: Okay, um, also I wanted to circle back to one thing because we're running out of time.
• 29:26
  Cheryl: You were talking about reconciling with your sister.
• 29:28
  Yeah.
• 29:29
  Cheryl: And I just don't know, speaking to the broader audience as we have, as adults, if you are not reconciled with your siblings, I would encourage you to consider it, okay, because life is so short, and if your siblings are still alive, and it's a healthy situation, and it's appropriate, that if you can, seek to reconcile and resolve the conflict, if it's possible.
• 30:00
  Ellen: And you don't have to resolve it.
• 30:02
  Ellen: You just have to seek to reconcile because you don't have any, yeah, you don't have any control how they're going to respond.
• 30:08
  Ellen: But I've always seen the illustration in my head of the bridge and my sister has her side and I have my side.
• 30:16
  Ellen: My job is to keep my side of the bridge clear so if she wants to come on it she's not tripping over any clutter.
• 30:23
  Ellen: And sometimes there is no reconciliation.
• 30:25
  Ellen: And there's nothing you can do but be at peace in your own heart.
• 30:28
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 30:29
  Ellen: You know, and just go, I'm sad.
• 30:31
  Ellen: I wish we could do
• 30:31
  Cheryl: this now.
• 30:31
  Cheryl: Because it comes back to boundaries.
• 30:33
  Cheryl: Right.
• 30:33
  Cheryl: You know, that sometimes, even as adults, we still have to have boundaries that are healthy for us and our families.
• 30:40
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 30:41
  Cheryl: Oh, good.
• 30:41
  Cheryl: Okay, I remember, I mean, there is such a mess with siblings, you know, but it's a whole lot of fun too,
• 30:49
  Yeah.
• 30:50
  Cheryl: you have a whole lot of fun in the mess and sometimes you're Sometimes they're one and
• 30:56
  the same.
• 30:57
  Partners in
• 30:58
  Cheryl: crime.
• 30:59
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 30:59
  Cheryl: You know, I had, I had a friend and she had twins, a boy and a girl.
• 31:04
  Cheryl: They were always partners in crime.
• 31:05
  Cheryl: When they were little, the little boy was physically stronger, but the girl was very agile with her hands.
• 31:11
  Cheryl: And so he would move things and set it up.
• 31:15
  Cheryl: So, I mean, they worked.
• 31:17
  Cheryl: Two and a half years old maybe and then he would reach it and she would crawl up and then she could unscrew.
• 31:23
  Cheryl: Oh, wow.
• 31:25
  Cheryl: Teamwork.
• 31:25
  Cheryl: Yes, it was.
• 31:26
  Cheryl: And the mom came in and he had done that and she had crawled up and she had undone the cookie jar.
• 31:32
  Cheryl: Uh huh.
• 31:32
  Cheryl: And she had her hand in the cookie jar.
• 31:34
  Cheryl: Oh, my goodness.
• 31:35
  Cheryl: Passing out cookies, you know.
• 31:36
  Cheryl: So there are great advantages to siblings.
• 31:39
  Cheryl: They learn about teamwork.
• 31:40
  Cheryl: I really try.
• 31:43
  Cheryl: And your expense is And so it's great.
• 31:47
  Cheryl: So parents, what a blessing you have the opportunity to have children and siblings.
• 31:53
  Cheryl: We're just trying to bring some of the thoughts to the table for you to love them well and maybe shepherd your little flock a little bit better.
• 32:03
  Cheryl: So remember, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 32:15
  Parenting is full of moments where we wonder if we're doing the right thing, especially when it comes to helping our kids navigate their relationships with one another.
• 32:26
  But as we talked about today, it's not about getting it perfect.
• 32:32
  It's about showing up with love, teaching them how to respect one another, and trusting that the seeds you're planting will grow in their own time.
• 32:43
  Take a moment to ask yourself, what one small step can I take this week to help my children show more kindness and respect toward one another?
• 32:53
  Sometimes it's as simple as modeling that behavior ourselves or creating a space for them to talk through their feelings.
• 33:02
  If today's conversation resonated with you, or if you're feeling unsure about how to apply these ideas in your own family, I'd love to hear from you.
• 33:12
  Reach out to us on social media, or contact at theparentingpodcast.
• 33:17
  com.
• 33:17
  And let's keep this conversation going.
• 33:21
  Remember, parenting is a journey, and with TPP, you are not alone.
• 33:27
  Keep loving, keep guiding, and keep learning.
• 33:29
  And trust that this process is shaping something beautiful in all of you.
• 33:35
  And don't forget to join us again next time on the Parenting Podcast.
• 33:39
  I hope to see you then.