Latest / Cigars and Cinema Podcast / "Are You Obsessed?" Ep.15 10/21/26

Transcript

"Are You Obsessed?" Ep.15 10/21/26 · Cigars and Cinema Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another episode of Cigars and Cinema.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: Grab a cigar, something to pair it with, and let's journey into another episode of Smoke and Screen.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Today's episode of Cigars and Cinema is coming to you from the ODT Cigars Society to join 5 premium custom cigars each month at an undeniable price.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Join the community and smoke with us on the Oakland Tobacchist YouTube channel as we delve into the rich experience of OT Craft Cigars and many cigars and vitolas custom made just for our membership.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: If you're interested and if you want to find out more about the subscription and the whole host of DT cigars, visit us at www.s.com or find us on social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok at OGT Cigars.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Hello everybody.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another episode, Cigars and Cinema Podcast on this Tuesday evening.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: Thank you again for joining us for this very special episode.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: I am Eric Drazen from OGT Cigars coming to you from the East Coast.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: And on the West Coast, we have Curtis Bailey, co-host of the podcast.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Curtis, good to have you back.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh tonight I'm feeling especially grateful that one, I'm already married, and two, I don't have any recently deceased cats.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: So I got that going for me.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: And if a lot of people don't fully understand what how much weight that statement carries in terms of deceased cats, I mean Curtis has he's kind of got a zoo going on, so it is very impressive.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: It could be one dropping any minute.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you guys for jumping on tonight.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we have a very special show.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh, a lot of people were talking about this movie before this episode.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: It's been kind of the talk of the town when it comes to horror films of this year.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: So I'm really excited uh to talk about it.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, and as we get into the cigar we're smoking tonight, I would like to know, as I see we've got some comments dropping down, I'm gonna pull up those comments.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: Highly encourage and invite you, please drop those comments down.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: What are you smoking for tonight's show?
2:19
SPEAKER_01: And also, because we announced this movie uh last week.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: Have you seen it?
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Did you go out and watch it this week, or have you already seen it during the uh the year?
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Let us know.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: Put that in the comments.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh, let's see here.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: Let's see who is on.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Texas Taurus is on tonight, and he's he's giving the non-seal of approval.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: That movie was so bad.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe it's not evil bond quality, but you know, we'll we will see.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Tough to compete with.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we got Tem Pearl Knight on, good to have you on, jumping on.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: Let's see here.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: We got Lady Driven as well.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Good evening.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: Hey, hey.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we got uh F Cazares uh saying hello, good to have you on.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: And Daniel Frazier, evening.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you guys for joining us tonight.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, full confession, we sent out the variety pack, and I did a little bit of a mishap and didn't get Curtis the variety pack for him for the show on time.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna take a brief detour just for this evening, and then we're gonna be back at the variety club.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that detour includes one of my favorite cigars of the year, just spoilers alert.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: This is the Elmago Mage exclusive.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: This is our seventh year anniversary.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, this is a limited run by Elmago cigars.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: We do have some available.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to make certain we had them longer than just the month of August.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that number is depleting, but we do have it available.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to smoke it.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh, Curtis, I know you've had this cigar before.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: I have.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna give sort of an online uh review of it.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: For anyone unfamiliar, uh, Elmago blended this once again for our seventh anniversary.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: It sports a Mexican San Andreas Maduro wrapper.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: Really interesting too.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it has a Sumatra binder.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: Nick Fusco and myself both share love for Sumatra tobacco.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: So, Sumatra binder and uh Nicaraguan fillers, and it is a six by fifty uh box press.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna jump into this cigar.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh, how about we get a cold draw going on with it?
4:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: I smoked the cigar quite a bit, but I was definitely in the mood to smoke it tonight.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Good open draw.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: A little bit of saltiness on the cold draw for me.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: This is straight up fig newton to me.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Figure Newton.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: Are you a fan of Fig Newton's?
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh yes, although there are other brands out there that do basically the same thing, and I think they're better quality.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: I forget what the one is that we I just had some when we went on our trip to Maine.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I mean, figs and dates and stuff like that in general.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Heck yeah.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Especially if you go out to the if you've been out to the desert here and had one of those date shakes.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: No, I missed my opportunity.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: Did oh man.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, hopefully there's a a trip to the West Coast in 2027.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: So okay, so a bit of a saltiness.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Curtis is getting Fig Newton.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: Let's uh get this lit up and see first impressions.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: Every cigar leaves an impression.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: However, it's not until you take a moment and analyze the full experience from construction to flavor to profile that you can truly appreciate it.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: So enjoy your cigar as you light it up.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: Take the time to toast it, smell the room notes, and experience the first notes as they come alive.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: In the same way, movies can tell deeper stories or show us things we haven't noticed on the surface.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: So journey with us as we take a more detailed appreciation for the craft of cigar and movie making.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: Being that it's our first uh El Mago cigar, being that it's uh a combination of tobacco I really like, the size I love, but also it's our seventh anniversary.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: So I think it would be wrong if I'm like, you know, it's okay.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: I'd give it a six out of five, six out of ten.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: Um so right out the gate, this cigar, I love its balance of like strength and nuance going on.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: I've said this many times.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: El Mago cigars, to me, their tobacco has this like juicy quality to it, uncuous quality, which really offsets a lot of strength to me, so that you're not just getting a dry palate.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'd love to know your thoughts, but that's kind of like initial thoughts out the gate.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, this one, um, and again, like like I think I mentioned this before.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes when I get sticks from use, even the special ones uh like this, I don't always necessarily do what we do here on the show where I sit down and I do the cold draw and I pick it apart and see like what's the first, third, like, what's the second?
7:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, I generally don't do that.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: I just sit down and enjoy it.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: Um so now that I'm thinking about it, I'm realizing um this is gonna be another one of those I that I think um gets big marks just for like how nicely balanced it is.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's it's complex.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: And I mean I know I think enough people have seen the podcast to that I really like a peppery retrohale right out the gate.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: That's what it's got.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, but then it's got this, and well, I don't want to give too much away, but as it continues, there's an oaky quality to it, some earthy components, um, a little bit of sweetness.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: So it's off to a beautiful start.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I really, really like this cigar.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: And it might be like power suggestion happening in my own brain, but I feel like a little bit of that dark dried fruit character carries over into this.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: Are you pairing with anything tonight?
8:12
SPEAKER_01: Just a soda water.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay, there you go.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, a few more comments here.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: Lady Driven says we just lit up Kronos.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: That cigar, I hope you guys enjoy it.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's from Cordoba and Morales.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: It's one of my personal favorites that they do.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: Brilliant Brazilian Modifina wrapper.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: So certainly hope you enjoy that.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, and let's see here.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Also, those Elmagos are good.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: And we got also Steve Hurley is on.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Hello, Steve.
8:38
SPEAKER_03: Hey, Steve.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: Glad you could jump on and watch.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, nice to see him.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so uh, I had mentioned at the beginning of the show who here has watched this movie.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people uh has have seen this movie.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: And tonight, to kind of finish off our series, I don't know, Curtis, if you want to give the introductions of what we're what we watched.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this was uh one of the two big indie horror hits that came out this summer.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: It's Obsession.
9:04
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think this is another uh, if not first time, very young filmmaker making this one, much like Backrooms, which we did a couple weeks ago.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: Um they've done like feature films, and I say they, it's kind of a it's it's a duel.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: The main director on this is Curry, Curry Baker, or I believe Baker Barker.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Um Barker.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: And he and his friend, who actually plays uh one of the the main roles, Ian, uh, who's a not so good friend.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: I think I read it.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: They they kind of got their start.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: It's really interesting because once this movie came out, I was like, all right, let me let me figure out what is what is this all about?
9:42
SPEAKER_01: Who are these these guys?
9:43
SPEAKER_01: And they have a comedy like channel on YouTube that uh has gotten quite a bit of success.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: And then they made like a short, uh, I didn't watch it, but a short film on YouTube called Serial Killer, and it's like or something like that, milk and cereal, serial kill, death, something like that.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so he, I believe uh Curry Barker, the main director, is about 26 when this movie was made, 26, 27.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: So fairly young.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: Um and going into it, I'm the type of person, and this is probably not a good thing, but if someone's like, This is the greatest movie ever, you have to watch it.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: Immediately I am on the defensive.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm curious.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: Is that why you haven't watched Andor yet?
10:24
SPEAKER_00: Is that my problem?
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Do I need to play this a little bit?
10:27
SPEAKER_01: No, I've got to convince my daughter to watch it.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: I do want to watch it.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, the problem is, is my Star Wars fan out of the three kids is not my eldest daughter.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: So that's the hard part.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: And I know as you had mentioned, it's not for the youngest of audiences to understand it.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: That that's been the delay.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: And Mallory's not really into Star Wars that much either.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, gotta find the way.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, but initial thoughts, obsession.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: What do you guys in the comments think?
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh oh wow.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Let's see here.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: Temporal night says, I have wild.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: My daughter walked out of it crying.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay, wow.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: So it's an impactful movie.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh, what did you think, Curtis?
11:07
SPEAKER_01: Right out the gate.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: Um overall, I'm positive on it.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: There are gonna be some things for us to to discuss that uh I think are issues, but um, you know, especially like we just were just mentioning for a relatively young filmmaker, this feels pretty confidently made.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, even though the um this sort of you know like monkey's paw, you know, be careful what you wish for kind of thing is an idea that's very old.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: Um this is a this is a cool take on it.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: And um you know, there's some pretty interesting stuff with how how do you define who the bad guy in this movie is?
11:49
SPEAKER_00: Um so overall, pretty effective.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's gonna be the kind of thing where like I want to watch it again or that I like would tell people you have to see this or anything like that, but you know, I wasn't bored, and um, you know, like I said, overall pretty well made.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: So not bad.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I will say I've seen it twice now.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I mentioned before the show I'd seen it about a three weeks, a month ago.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I wanted to refresh and watch it again.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, it's high marks for me, honestly, is gonna be in the acting.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: I feel like, especially like the not so good friend Ian or the main lead bear, um, and even Nikki uh herself or Amber, these these kind of characters, what I think that the director does right in this movie is containment.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: He contains his story in environment and in character cast.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: He's not too ambitious about it, and it's a formula, as you said so yourself, you weren't bored from it.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: That in and of itself is pretty impressive to me, coming out as a a start off.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: So, for those a bit unfamiliar, a bit of facts here, obsession uh came out uh this last year.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Rated R uh with a runtime of one hour and 49 minutes.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: After breaking a mysterious one wish willow to win his crush's heart, a hopeless romantic finds himself getting exactly what he asked for, but soon discovers that some desires come at a dark, sinister price.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: Written and directed by Curry Barker.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of up-and-coming, like new actors.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: You have Indy Navarr, I believe is how you pronounce it.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: Michael Johnston, Cooper Tomlinson, uh, Megan Lawless, and then not that much big of a cast beyond that.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, let's see here.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: Lady Driven says we watched it, we liked it, and the hoodoo vibe came it, made it creepy.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: The victim/slash villain swap places, which was interesting.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, I would say, like, first, right out the gate, it does.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate how it's not seamless of a movie, but it's a tight, tightly put together movie.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: And I really think that worked in his favor, to be honest.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: Um so overall, we kind of meet this character, uh, Bear, who has a secret crush on his friend, seemingly since they've known since high school, uh Nikki.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: And those two, plus two others, Amber and Ian, work at a uh like music store, very small store.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: So they're all kind of tightly knit, and we kind of get thrown together and we meet these characters.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: What do you what do you feel about the character's introduction, how they interact with one another?
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh, what do you think of Bear's character?
14:28
SPEAKER_00: I I thought this this whole thing of you know, this uh group of people who work together and then immediately bounce off and go uh spend time hanging out, getting drunk, you know, that kind of stuff.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: I was like, well, shoot, there's my late teens and early early 20s up on the screen.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I've definitely worked those kind of jobs where you know, because of how stuff works once you get out of high school, um so much of your social circle is just like, who am I working with at this crappy retail job?
15:00
SPEAKER_00: They're my they're my drinking buddies now.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's so so familiar.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: So that part I I completely bought.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: And then you you run the risk of having that one employee that you're like, I don't know, I can't really hang out with him, but he's got a comment.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: That's definitely true, yes.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: It's like let's let's clock out before Gary comes around.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh the uh I and the character of Bear is interesting because you know this sort of lovelorn, uh low confidence, indecisive, you know, young 20s guy is such a stereotype for lots of movies, romantic comedies quite often.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Um so seeing him placed here in a horror movie um is you know kind of a fun twist on it.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I struggle with trying to do do I feel like this is a realistic version of one of those characters, or is he like too hyperly insecure?
16:03
SPEAKER_00: Because like he's bad, he's really bad at this.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: And you know, um I mean there's gotta be people I guess maybe there's people like this in real life.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: That was the only thing with his character was like, is did they push it too far with him?
16:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay, or is this like is that this the appropriate setup for this guy to get into his the kind of trouble that he gets into in this movie?
16:24
SPEAKER_00: Do you need him to be that bad at it?
16:27
SPEAKER_01: No, I see what you mean.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh in other words, he might be the Gary of those people that hang out.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, like how how how does he get into that?
16:35
SPEAKER_01: I I definitely see what you're saying.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think you're right, too, about like realizing that archetype is usually romantic comedy to see it in this kind of deranged version uh is interesting for sure.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think that while you have that, it wasn't so stumbling for me because I think that the lead actor did a really good job.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: Like he's he's convincing, he's got range.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: I I think a lot of the time when you have character archetypes like that, the lazy thing to do is to slip into that like two-dimensional, this is how they are, and every reaction is this way.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: We get to see him from where he starts to the end, and he has a really good range of emotions that go through that.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: So um, I think that helps, but I definitely see what your point is.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: It's a it's an extreme version for sure.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it it wasn't a thing that really bugged me.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm just got my analytical nerd hat on right now, and it's I think it's definitely a thing.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: So yes, yes, for sure.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Um part of what makes I think a good like world-building tool is when you have rules set up in the world that you create, and you don't necessarily explain all those rules.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: That's what I think this movie is doing.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: Whether it's the wishbone, whether it's kind of like how that wish plays out, a lot of it is found through discovery, and of course he he realizes okay, that was really what happened here between us.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: But I like the kind of sinister, unnerving idea of like you don't really know why it worked or really anything, and so you get like a caller on the phone trying to figure out like how do we deal with this.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I enjoy that, and that's another aspect about this movie that I think is really tight and clean.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I I think that if you were to go to try to overexplain that plot device, then suddenly the movie becomes about the mechanics of a horror thing, and that's not what we're doing here.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: We're we're evaluating, you know, the human relationships between these people and how their choices impact the lives of other people.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: So getting into the nitty-gritty about how the doohickey works, not necessary.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes, right.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Although I did this, this is this is absolutely not a serious issue with this movie, so don't take it wrong.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: But I did think it was kind of funny that you know it's we revealed that early in the movie that his magic wishmaker works.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: And you know, going by standard movie rules, you would assume look like, oh, he got the one actual magic one.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: Like that was the fluke.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't supposed to happen.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: We found later these things have a like a hundred percent success rate.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: There's yeah, probably like you know, well, we see the one guy who's like, I want a billion dollars, you know.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: There's probably self-made, you know, millionaires out there, people with you know, uh um uh you know the exact bodies they want to have.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, who knows what kind of crazy stuff's going on out there.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: I was like, Man, how did nobody know about this beforehand?
19:15
SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, it doesn't actually detract from the movie, it's just funny.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: When you process it afterwards, you're like, every single one of those, and they must have sold more than three of them, seems to work.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: No, for sure.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think I think also a facet of that, he's got the wishbone thing, so he makes the wish.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: I wish uh Nikki would love me more than anyone on this in on this planet.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: Um while you don't necessarily you can't agree with this guy, like he's definitely doing the wrong thing.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: You can at least empathize when you're not when you're when you're younger, when you're depressed, and when you're like you have a crush on somebody, it's not an outrageous thing to wish for.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: It's not like he's got plans or anything going on.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean that's one of the things that I think make this makes this premise work, is that it is the kind of thing that I think even if you've never done it yourself in your life, you can imagine it being a feeling that a person in his situation would have for sure.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: So you go, I think what's an interesting part about the dynamic is you meet him, like you said, he's very uh he's I guess insular in a way.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh and then you learn quickly that uh his cat dies, and so that's like a setting of a tone part of the story.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: So then they go out to do this trivia thing and hang out at the bar, and then all four of them kind of around.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, I really enjoy while the focus of the movie really does focus on him and Nikki.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: I enjoy the Amber story as well.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: And you see this other co-worker who looks like she might be dating the fourth employee, Ian.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, but at the same time, you can tell that she's actually actively listening to Bear.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: He wants she wants to know what he's going through, maybe overdoing it a little bit to be not so subtle.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: But I appreciate that going on in the background.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, you know, because like you said, this this movie's mostly about the bizarre goings-on between Bear and Nikki, but it uses its time with those other characters pretty effectively, I think.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: So it points to it for that.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, so then you meet them, you meet the whole crew at the bar, and then Nikki wants to go home, so he drives her home and then he makes the wish at that happening.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: In terms of their dynamic prior to the wish and after the wish, how do you feel like is that believable?
21:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh that whole thing.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you think?
21:40
SPEAKER_00: You mean like her behavior immediately after the wish?
21:43
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it's just seemingly normal enough that it makes sense that he would maybe be a little bit confused why she's acting this way, but not freaking out immediately, because she definitely goes to much weirder places later in the movie.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: If she started at 11.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Like that, then immediately, like this, this story doesn't happen the same way, right?
22:04
SPEAKER_00: So I think that was a smart writing choice to have the the wackiness of Nikki build as the movie goes on.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Because I mean they go through this, they have a again, it was straight out of a romantic comedy.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: This is the early part of our you know, the honeymoon part of our relationship montage of them, you know, on the bed looking at the computer together and going on dates and you know making breakfast, and like you know, it's so 100% straight out of a romantic comedy.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a cool kind of you know, yeah, too, that it does.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: So you're saying it's good that she didn't start out as Jack Torrance, right?
22:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so yeah, they he he makes the wish, and then slowly and slowly we start to see an attachment form.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Um and I think too, a a risk that you're running with a young director and not very well-known prominent role like actors, um, there's a lot that could go wrong here.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's a lot that could just fall flat.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: And I think that this speaks to the director's ability to rein it all and keep it tight, even down to performance and such like that.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: Those are why I think this movie might have gotten a lot of accolades aside from its storyline.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, if you sat me down in front and to watch this movie, I knew nothing about it, I would not know this is like basically a first-time director.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: And if if we're running parallels with the other big movie, backrooms we talked about, some of these things I'm talking about are some of our issues we had with backrooms, of how it so absolutely.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: I I think that the ideas that underpin this premise are thought through more and um kind of focused on uh in a stronger fashion than backrooms accomplished, yes.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, and you you can you can see instances of that in the way that this um story was constructed.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: For example, part of the plot here hinges on um Nikki starting to lie about this thing with her father being sick.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Um that's almost the first thing that you know the possessed, if we want to call it that, Nikki comes up with to rationalize her strange behavior.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, instantly, you know, it's something that you know real Nikki wouldn't have done.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: But you know, this twisted version of her that's desperately trying to seem uh you know appealing to this man now that she loves more than anybody in the world, of course she's gonna start lying about stuff like that.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: Of course she is.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: So they thought they thought about it.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: And I also like, as you mentioned, it's the first time there's a series of other things she comes up with.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it was because I was on drugs, or it was because I drank too much, or it was because of this or this or this.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: And it's really interesting how quick possessed Nikki is uh able to apologize for everything for like all the outbursts and such.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Um an interesting comment here from Lady Driven says Nikki didn't seem romantically interested in Bear before he broke the stick.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: I I I would agree.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's very much a she seemed like a person who's like straightforward, says what's on her mind, is not a cold person, and definitely looks at him towards like a friend that she has to like take care of in a way, versus the other way around.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, and there's even that scene that that kind of shows her, I think, emotional maturity over Bears where uh she directly asks him, Do you like me?
25:37
SPEAKER_00: Because she wants to find out so she can let him down easily.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Because obviously she doesn't hate him, but if he feels that way about her and she knows that she doesn't feel that way, we need to talk about it.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: And of course, he doesn't say what he should have, and yeah, everything tumbles from there.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, overall, it I feel like the overarching story is that you have this kind of commentary on like one-sided relationships and loving the idea of the person, not the person themselves.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: And he bear comes to a conclusion towards the end where she's she's like really freaking out inside the the house, and he's like, I just want you to be you.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: And he quickly realized like this idea of oh, me and you, it doesn't work, it takes two people, and it and that he loved her more than the idea or the idea of her more than her herself until he realized that's wrong.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, the I just want you to be you, if he's really being honest about that, then the the you that he's asking for is somebody that doesn't love him.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: Now he tried to, you know, reconcile that and you know m find solutions for it later in the movie.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh that's like the the the fundamental problem.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think this is maybe even aimed at that like idea that's so pervasive in um uh at least the culture of you know generations surrounding you know you and me.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: Um you know comes from lots of romantic comedies and stuff, is this the insidiousness of the nice guy, right?
27:11
SPEAKER_00: And that you know, all he has to do is just be there at the right time and like her hard enough, and eventually she'll rise.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: He was there the whole time and fall into his arms.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: And of course, that's nonsense, and it's not what uh he should be wanting, and it's not what the uh you know women that he might be trying to get into his life, they don't want that from you either, dude.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I was saying where it's kind of interesting, you know, like you know, the way that this movie is structured.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Um if you look at it in a traditional sense, he's the victim.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: He you know, he he did this thing that had unintended consequences, and oh my gosh, how horrifying is this, you know, new version of her, you know, once the obsession fully sets in, you know, and all the uh way that she behaves, she's coded visually as the villain.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: She's shown in silhouette all the time, which looks super cool by the way.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, she does all these freakishly things, she murders, you know, like in every sense, she seems like she's the bad guy, but she's the victim this time.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Because we find out midway through the movie, she's talking to him in her sleep, and it's real Nikki.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: And she's saying, Kill me.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: So this isn't a situation where you know she's you know, the internal consciousness of Nikki is unaware of what's happening, right?
28:25
SPEAKER_00: She's experiencing being this person she doesn't want to be all the time.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of a terrifying idea.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: It is, it is, and I think that that aspect of the story didn't fully register with me the first time I watched it.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Now again, too, it was a long, it was a long day.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: It was very late at night.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: I think we watched it almost like midnight.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: We were like, ah, it's a weekend, let's watch this for a week.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I really appreciate the glimpses we get, whether it's at sleep, whether it's like the first time they start like kissing, and then she like freaks out, like she's having these like trying like this visceral reaction towards him.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we see it, I think, at its most potent, one of its most potent is when she's at the party and she's screams it's not me, and she starts hitting herself, right?
29:09
SPEAKER_01: Attacking herself.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: And it's just you're right, there is something inherently I feel like that's where some of the horror of this movie really comes to play.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I can't think of many things that are worse to experience than to just go day after day with zero percent autonomy and no way to do anything about it.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's pretty horrifying, honestly.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: And there's the very uh intense moment too when he's like, Okay, I figured it out.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: Like it was this wish that I made when I shouldn't have made it, and so he makes the call to the number on the back, and you get this really monotone, typical phone reception, and basically telling him, like, well, it's I guess it'll be over when you die.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: And then that chilling moment when he's like, Do you want to talk to Nikki?
29:54
SPEAKER_01: And you hear her screaming on the phone is like it's just terror, yeah.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like crazy.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's funny.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: That did that that guy on the other end of the line, he's definitely smoking a J or something.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: So interesting enough, and there was a few things I want to touch on in terms of what's going on in the making of this movie.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: That is Curry Barker on the phone, the director.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: So he wanted to insert himself in there.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, a really cool aspect that I'm sure you'd appreciate.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: I was watching an interview with him sometime back, and there's the scene.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh you had mentioned her in silhouette.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: So there's a scene where he wakes up and he like doesn't know where she is, and she's like in the corner.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: And so we go to his point of view, and the camera's looking at the the bedroom, and then it pans, and then it goes to the middle, and then it pans, and then you see Nikki.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: Apparently, they wanted to get this rig that basically worked at this very like smooth transition speed, but they couldn't, so they jimmy rigged it to basically they had to jerk the camera back and forth to make it not like basically lose its like tension, and then they had to slow the film down to the desired speed.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: Stuff like that.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, so that's that's really cool.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's making it work, and I I appreciate stuff like that.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, very quickly, let's check in on our cigar.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're about the halfway point.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, burning beautifully.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm getting more sweetness come forward than previous.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: Again, some of that like oaky whiskey barrel sweetness, um, and that dried fruit element, too, that you mentioned.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: That's it's there for sure.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is, and I feel like there's maybe even now like an underlying layer of almost like and I this is gonna sound bad because most people like you know, derisively talk about this food stuff.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm meaning this in as positively as I possibly can.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: Fruitcake.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay, particularly the the the kind that's got booze in it.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's always there's that little bit of extra bite in those, you know, alcohol-soaked uh holiday uh desserts.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: Something in here is reminding me of that too.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that sensation of that, like you're saying, like soaked that alcohol aspect.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: I definitely get that for sure.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: And I would say, in terms of profile, this is kind of somewhere in the sweet spot for my palate.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Being it's it's a full throttle flavor, its body smoke texture is definitely full.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: Strength wise, you're gonna find some might say medium, I would call it medium plus.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, while all that's going on, it's not drying out the palate, and it it doesn't feel like, oh my gosh, this is brutal.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: Like this is a cigar that I've got to get through.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: It's really good balance.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: So not bad at all.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: We'll we'll continue smoking it.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: We got a few comments here.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh, Jason says, hello, I was late to the show.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: Good to have you on.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: Nice to have Jason.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: Says I kept uh on going back thinking this is fatal attraction, but more on a crazier level.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: It's a fair comparison.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: And he's wondering, I sorry, I missed it.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: What cigar are you smoking?
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh, tonight we're doing a brief pause from the variety.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: We will be back next week with it.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: We are smoking the El Mago Mage exclusive for OGT.
32:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, in terms of the phone call we were talking about, Mallory wrote, I caught the first time, but it was subtle at first.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that that is also a big, I would agree, it's a big uh high point for this movie is that that danger I mentioned when you're dealing with new directors and new actors used to go so over the top that it pulls you from the story.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: There's a good, like, healthy measurement of subtlety in this movie that I appreciate.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the other things that I that I think is really cool that's going on with um uh her behavior in this movie, and this is not to say that women in real life can't and don't act this way, because that's definitely not true.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: However, uh, I think we we all know that on balance when it comes to this kind of like um emotional abuse kind of behavior, it's very typically perpetuated by men on the women in their lives.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: And so much of the stuff that she does in this, the immediate apologizing after doing something wrong, or the smiling to pretend like everything is okay and you made me do this, you know, like all that kind of stuff that happens in it is is so abuser-coded.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: But again, she's the victim throughout this whole thing.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: So it's just yes, that's kind of cool.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: It is cool, and it's disturbing.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: It is the first time I watched it, I was kind of like, uh, what are we like?
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Who is who is the main bad guy?
34:21
SPEAKER_01: Is the bad guy like the idea?
34:22
SPEAKER_01: Is the bad guy, and I think that it is the the subtlety comes in when all of them at some point are doing something maybe not so good, and then maybe trying to do the right thing.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, honestly, I think the one of the biggest scumbags of the whole movie is Ian, his friend.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, you see him sabotaging even before the wish is made, you see him sabotaging Bear's relationship with Nikki because later you realize that he and Nikki have been hooking up at random times, even though he's supposedly be going out with Amber.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: So there's this honest, like, I don't know, he's just kind of a scumbag.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: And then of course he has the chance to like listen to his friend when your friend shows up hysterical with like blood all over him.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: The thing you want to do is rationalize and say, Oh, I want to uh I'll wish for a billion dollars just to like prove you're wrong.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, where is the friendship?
35:14
SPEAKER_01: And and honestly, Amber and Nikki are the only ones that actually try to listen to Bear in the first place.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: It's true, yeah.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to go back to that uh customer service phone call scene again, real quick, because in that scene is the one thing that I think is maybe the biggest problem with this movie.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, it doesn't ruin it or anything, but um we've talked about this before that uh drama means uh characters being faced with hard choices, and the choice they make reveals who they are and it impacts the rest of the plot or the state of the world or whatever, right?
35:46
SPEAKER_00: And in that scene, the guy says, Do you want to cancel the wish?
35:51
SPEAKER_00: And Bear first says, Well, can I modify it?
35:53
SPEAKER_00: And that question reveals why Bear is actually the bad guy in this movie, because his first thought was I still I still want to hang on to this somehow.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: I know that it's you know not right, I shouldn't have done it, things are going weird, but can I can I tweak it?
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Can I still get what I want out of this?
36:08
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, all right, now now you're the bad guy.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: That was the wrong thing to say.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: But if the guy had presented him with a choice of no, we can't modify your wish, we can only cancel it, and that was a real choice.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: And then if Bear chooses to not cancel and continue, then that's you know, him, you know, kind of like fully stepping into a choice that m matters.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: Since the guy on the phone reveals actually you can't cancel the wish, it takes the choice away.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: There's no choice for him to make.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes sense.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean the rest of the movie is still great the way that it it it plays out, and you know, there's a lot of cool stuff that happens afterwards, you know, great horror movements or whatever, but like I think if they were like leaning a hundred percent into the idea of what it means for a character to make choices in a world, that's the one thing that sticks in my craw in this movie.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: Now, the only the only thing I would say, another aspect of that that I'm like, maybe they were trying to go for this, and it's not the best way, but um technically he's given a choice if he takes his own life.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: Um that's you're not wrong.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: Um it's not, but it's not the I I don't think it's as a more poignant question to ask.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: So I definitely see your your point on that for sure.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, Lady Driven says, yeah, phone scenes solidified that Bear is the villain.
37:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: Um well, and I think another aspect that's going on is that if if we as an audience member at all have an inkling of saying, okay, well, I do feel bad for him because he's not technically a bad guy and he didn't make a wish intentionally.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: He was just hoping to be, he is doing uh sorry, Nikki is doing to him everything he's doing to Amber in the movie.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: Amber is trying to support him, and a very uh like I think a really good scene is when the obsession first starts, and he takes Nikki home, and they she's like, Can you just uh get in the bed with me?
38:00
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, I I won't be able to sleep.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: And she like lays her head on his shoulder and he's like, What's going on here?
38:06
SPEAKER_01: You can definitely see that she is like giving, and he's like still, it's all about him and like preserved.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: We have a very similar shot in the video store when we learn Amber has not been accepted to college, and she does the exact same thing, and it's reciprocated.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: There's a bit more of a healthy type of relationship, but at the same time, he's still very closed off, and as an audience, you're still pulled in.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: What's Barry gonna do?
38:32
SPEAKER_01: And it's like he's throwing her away, but technically, like you are pining after the other girl, the exact same, you should know what this feels like.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so where's the empathy?
38:40
SPEAKER_01: And there is none.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: It's true.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that I thought was really interesting.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: One other thing I just thought of, since it mostly takes place uh in the first half-ish or so of the movie, that struck me as a little strange.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it ruins the movie or anything, but you know, one of the early displays that not everything is right with Nikki centers around the stuff with his dead cat.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: She she digs it up and makes a little shrine in the kitchen, and he's like, That's not right.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, please don't do that again.
39:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: And then there's this whole thing where she cooks it and feeds it to him in his lunch at work.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, I get that that's creepy, disturbing behavior.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't feel like it relates at all to this thing that she's supposed to be in love with him.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: That like that that's better.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: It feels thematically untethered from that idea.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: It's just weird behavior for weird behavior's sake.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, yeah, not the biggest fan of that, but it doesn't like really spoil anything.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: And you know, on the face of it, ew.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: No, I I completely agree.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's also really disturbing when he comes home from it and you realize, oh, she ate it too.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: That's why she's vomiting everywhere.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you're right, it's it's definitely, I feel like it's more horror for horror's sake than it is actually story pushing.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: Um and part of that though, I feel like this movie for the first third, maybe almost half, it feels more like a thriller to me, to be honest.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: And then we get more of the horror elements, final third, when you have things like uh the party scene where she's hurting herself, the scene where she murders Amber in the car.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, it just it kind of like tumbles into that.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: What do you what are your thoughts?
40:18
SPEAKER_01: Do you feel a shift at all, or do you feel like it's pretty much?
40:21
SPEAKER_00: No, I think I I think I I agree with you.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it it it starts off, you know, it just is like a lot of stuff that's unsettling or socially awkward and and whatnot.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, some of those sequences that happen, especially in the the last third, like you said, in his house, where she's like, you know, again, in shadow, popping in and out of the kitchen, acting like the world's ending, and then pretending everything's okay.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: Again, this super abuser-coded behavior.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh then of course, like you said, the murder.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's um I I mean I saw that coming, but it's still, you know, uh an effectively shot scene when uh what's the is it Sarah?
41:04
SPEAKER_01: Amber.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: Amber, when she gets killed in the car, like it's Christmas.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: Um okay, we got some more comments pulling back to the the cat concept.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: I want to pull that up.
41:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh on a side note though, beforehand, Joe Child says, are we going to be able to grab more notes for Ratu?
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, we have some in sampler packs.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you I know, Joe, that you're a society member.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh you could always double up on society members for certain spots we have.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: That allotment is closing very soon.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's a it's a I'm I'm very like humbled that it went so well.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: I wish we had more.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, it not so much.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh, let's see here.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: Lady Driven says, Yeah, the whole eat the cat part of the movie was very disturbing.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and Mallory responds with, I think it mimics abusive game playing, fear of abandonment, abandonment provokes bad behavior.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: I can see that.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it makes sense.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean that's uh Steve Hurley says, You've mentioned the name Amber.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: I haven't seen the flick, so I consulted the great god Google and found no such name in the character.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: Is it not Amber?
42:07
SPEAKER_01: Is it you're right, it is Sarah.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I thought it was Sarah.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm sorry.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: I don't know where I pulled that from.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Steve.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, so sorry.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh Sarah, yeah, I feel like that is one of the most poignant horror scenes, and the way it's finished is interesting as well because we see this power shift.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: The power shift has been like Nikki's really annoying like this because she's obsessed and she's clingy and she's throwing tantrums to shim, she telling him, No, it's your fault, Sarah's dead.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: It's your fault I had to do this.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you basically led this down.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: So you need to be able to like start acting a different way as well because this is on you.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: And I see we we have that power shift.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, and there's a real interesting duality going on there because effectively what she's saying is that you're you're trapped with me while the whole time we know that the opposite is also true.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's nice, it's good.
43:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a bit of unnerviness to that.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Um now, a big thing that we had mentioned that we were kind of let down with backrooms is the ending and how that kind of wraps up.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, thoughts on from like there's three main stages of the ending in my mind.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: There's the stage where he's like, Maybe I can just go back to the store, tell him what's going on and how messed up this is.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: He gets somebody do a counter wish.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: So then he's like, Okay, we we've got this elixir, maybe we can get someone to do a counter wish.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: Then it goes to Ian's house and that ends poorly.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: I really like the use of visual and music in that moment when he says, I wish a billion dollars, and you see basically the entire world crashing down in front of him.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: And it's a billion dollars, like there's no excitement, there's no he just realized he lost, and there's money floating from the sky, and we don't even see like where it's coming from, it's just dumping.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, you know, again, this is a kind of A minor complaint, but a going going with the whole monkey's paw nature of these uh um uh willow wish thingamajiggies.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh he should have gotten buried under the money.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: That that's not bad.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously it's it's in so that you know him and Bear can stare at each other and have this little like you know moment of uh you you just effed up kind of thing, and that's that's got story value too.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: And then of course him showing up later and what Nikki does, like you know, it's that's all fine, but like it would have been cool too if he just got buried under a billion dollars because that's gonna weigh a lot.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: True, true.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, no, no, for sure.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: I I think that um there's just the I I like where the wish goes in terms of the contrast of what's happening, uh, which wouldn't be normally a celebrated thing.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then he goes back third stage to actually confront Nikki and how it ends.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: What are your feeling on how it ends?
44:56
SPEAKER_00: Um I think that uh you know, obviously we were talking about this earlier where it was basically his only choice was to either live with this or take himself out of the equation.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think it's right and good that we actually see him do that at the end of this movie because again, if you really are looking at this at face value, Nikki is the victim ultimately of this horror story.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: And you know, even though she doesn't get a resolution, no amount of therapy is gonna be enough to help that problem.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: Um it's good that the story acknowledges at the end that you know that you know we get to see her be horrified by finally snapping out of it and you know recalling everything that just happened because we know she's conscious of what's going on.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: Um so uh for the sake of her character, it's nice that Bear like you know didn't get out of it in some fashion.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: Because um, you know, um that would have been a a disservice to her.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: So pretty solid ending, you know.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, you know, probably kind of inevitable, but you know, um sometimes that's what you should do, you know, uh is you know give give the characters their due justice, and I think in this case that's what they did.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, definitely.
46:19
SPEAKER_01: Um Jason says it was a great ending uh through the whole movie, and he left her totally traumatized for sure.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: Now, uh this is a theory.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: I want to know what you think.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, we we realize he goes to the bathroom, he's gonna shoot himself, can't bring himself to do it, he just doesn't have the guts to do it.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: So then he ends up taking it a more softer approach and overdosing.
46:44
SPEAKER_01: The way he goes out was essentially suggested by her midway through the movie.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: She basically, in a way, I mean, not necessarily by doing pills, but uh basically he she he's like she's at one point, she's like, if you leave this house, then I'll basically just like slowly bleed myself, and then it will go into silence and then numbingness and darkness, and then there's the silence and blah blah.
47:06
SPEAKER_01: We he basically lives that reality towards the end.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, she says it and delivers those lines in a very like somber and daydreamy way.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: I wonder, theorizing, like, is that her suggesting like we only know one way out of this?
47:21
SPEAKER_01: Is and it's gonna be me doing it, or it's gonna be you doing it, like her true self trying to reach through.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but I thought that was interesting.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, it is interesting, and I also like the um the specific execution of you know how they filmed that moment where she snaps out of it because she almost pulls off this Romeo and Juliet thing, like like oh, happy dagger kind of thing, and yeah, uh is literally about to pull the trigger on the gun and then snaps out of it.
47:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh just you know, again, it it's with a lot of these things, even though the that scene might have been sort of inevitable or predictable, the details of how it's executed kind of make a difference on how you know it feels quality-wise.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: And I just those those were just smart choices.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I agree.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, Lady Driven says that is an interesting perspective on that.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it just a little interesting.
48:16
SPEAKER_01: Now, I I feel like we we have to address, I think part of what makes this movie what it was and why it's such kind of a pop, pop culture deal in the horror genre, is that there are a lot of awkward moments in this movie, and there are a lot of freakout moments.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: I would say, out of this movie, what do you feel like is the better representation of that?
48:38
SPEAKER_01: Like in from scene by scene, beat by beat, is there an instance in this movie or like, yeah, this really hit true in terms of its awkwardness, its uncomfortability, its extremities?
48:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there were quite a few of them.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the party is a big obvious one where she pulls the chair like without cold kiss the person to your left thing.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: Oh, but there's one part a little bit earlier in the movie where um he's initially trying to express his um dismay over some of her behavior.
49:07
SPEAKER_00: Like he's like, you know, it's hey, it's great that you love me, but like you shouldn't do this, this is weird.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: And she tries to solve it by smiling as if everything is okay, but it's this really exaggerated, like, I'm putting on a happy face smile that looks uncomfortable.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: I I thought that was really good.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think uh is it Indy Navaret, the uh the actress who plays Nikki?
49:30
SPEAKER_00: She knocks out of the park.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: I think she's fantastic in this.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: I I and again, I think out of all the actors did an insanely good job for seemingly kind of new to the game for sure.
49:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, I would I would completely agree.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, Jason says, I really enjoyed how the door was completely duct taped so Bear couldn't leave.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: That was a good moment.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, I really like the moment too when he he's off the phone and he's been told by Ian, hey, it's gonna be a boy's night out, like she can't come.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: And so she goes into the shower, and the argument that takes place, you never see her.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: It's all audio again, all focused on him.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: And she has that crazy freak out when he's like, you know, you can't come.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: And then she like switches tactics quickly.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, then if you don't want me to come, I do I'm not gonna come.
50:16
SPEAKER_01: And you completely see the the power shift there.
50:18
SPEAKER_01: I think the way that it's filmed and the way it's done, it's it's super cringy, but at the same time, really well executed, I think.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: Um Lady Driven says her smile in that scene was crazy, her face totally changed creepy.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, it was a good moment.
50:34
SPEAKER_01: Um okay.
50:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, any any final thoughts before we we wrap up?
50:39
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know, we might have we might have covered everything.
50:45
SPEAKER_00: Um I I guess I just want to to reiterate, I I think that the movie's use of lighting adds a lot to some of those scenes that could feel sort of mundane or like even goofy otherwise, but with the right lighting.
51:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm particularly thinking in particular of uh there's a scene slightly later in the movie where she's um seems like she's starting to act kind of aggressive towards him, you know, because he's been pushing back so much, and then she kind of goes into everything's okay, and I'm gonna go to sleep, and you know, like her coming in and out of the kitchen, just the the lighting in that, like you know, it adds so much to the way that that scene feels.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: So it does points to them for that.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I would agree.
51:32
SPEAKER_01: I would agree.
51:32
SPEAKER_01: It's it's yeah, very impressive.
51:34
SPEAKER_01: And I like too uh a large portion of the movie takes place in that one house.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, there could be symptoms of it being really boring or drawn out or too explored, I guess, and I think they make good use of it.
51:46
SPEAKER_01: I agree, sure.
51:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so uh let's talk about the final third on the mage from El Mago.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, I won't say I feel like this is a cigar with an insane amount of transitions, but I like the way the journey from the beginning and aggressiveness to kind of this like sweet sweeter, like uh fruitier type of element that it takes.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I think I agree.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: Um the I I I I said this at the beginning.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: It is a cigar that is extremely nicely balanced.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: There's not one or two or three things in the profile that are like shouting for attention above all the others.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: It feels really cohesive.
52:28
SPEAKER_01: Yes, 100%.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so Jason's throwing in his rating.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: He says, I give the cigar an eight, smoke plenty of them, a movie, the movie a 6.5.
52:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
52:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so yeah, let's first rate El Mago with a mage.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: Got a blank piece of paper here where I'm gonna write down you too my vote.
52:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: It's an eight for me.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I've got an 8.8, almost a complete nine.
53:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm still scared to go to a complete nine or ten because then you're like, can anything top that?
53:06
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, yeah.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: It does feel like you're you're being a little bit overzealous, right?
53:11
SPEAKER_01: I remember there was a a very uh prominent cigar reviewer that at one point rated a cigar at 100 out of 100.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: So then three years later, he had a cigar that was 105.
53:23
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, so you broke your rate?
53:25
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I don't know how that works.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: So there you go.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, and then obsession, the movie.
53:32
SPEAKER_01: Where are we going with that?
53:34
SPEAKER_01: Um this uh might be a little surprising.
53:39
SPEAKER_01: It was surprising for me.
53:41
SPEAKER_01: 7.5 for me.
53:42
SPEAKER_01: All right, 7.8 for me.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh again, I honestly saw the trailer for this movie and I was like, this looks dumb.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: Like it just it looks cheap and such, but I really feel like especially too seeing it twice.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: I thought maybe even the second time I would find a lot more issues with it.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, I only liked it even more.
54:00
SPEAKER_01: And it's that much more impressive uh for the director.
54:04
SPEAKER_01: I know that he's already working on another movie, and it's enough interest that I think I'd probably go watch the next one he does.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I mean, it loses a little bit of points for me.
54:14
SPEAKER_00: And for one, you know, this is this has never been my favorite genre.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: There are horror movies that I like a lot, but you know, you have to work a little bit harder for for me to you know get into a film in this genre.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: And uh some of those things I said, like, you know, that you know, the the choice that he makes uh on that customer service phone call feels like you know, maybe that idea didn't kind of kind of go the way that you know I think is effective for drama and uh a few other things.
54:41
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean for a little movie that came out of nowhere starring, you know, uh, you know, uh and made by you know a bunch of you know pretty young people, um, it feels really confidently made.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: The core idea is deeply unsettling.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, yeah, not bad.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, especially too.
55:00
SPEAKER_01: I the budget on it was nuts.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: It was like I think under 500.
55:05
SPEAKER_01: It was no, I think it was 750,000 is how this movie was something something stupid.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: Let's see, I've got the Wikipedia page pulled up in front of me.
55:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, budget estimated between 600 and 750,000, which is nothing.
55:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes, which I think that's that pretty impressive.
55:22
SPEAKER_01: So um, but yeah, thank you guys for joining us tonight uh and talking about obsession.
55:27
SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna be back next week to sort of do a wider look on the horror genre.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: So it's not gonna be specifically about a movie, it's gonna be more of like iconic horror films, which ones work, which ones don't work.
55:40
SPEAKER_01: Because if you haven't realized yet, Curtis and I like to talk crap about certain movies out there.
55:44
SPEAKER_01: So we do.
55:45
SPEAKER_00: Um if you're a a a regular watcher or listener, you might recall that we did one of these a while back just talking about action movies as a genre.
55:53
SPEAKER_00: This will be the same thing, just with horse.
55:55
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
55:56
SPEAKER_01: So uh definitely hope you guys can join us same time.
55:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh and then in two days on our Thursday show, we have the blender of Nosferatu and Espinosa cigars, Hector Alfonso.
56:06
SPEAKER_01: He's gonna be on the show with us, so it'll be really interesting.
56:08
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
56:09
SPEAKER_00: Um real quick, if you if you'll allow me one final indulgence.
56:12
SPEAKER_00: Um I I should have mentioned this last week.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh on on last last Monday, I was on the plane coming home from my trip and I watched Disclosure Day on the uh plane.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: That was officially the 3,000th movie I have added to my spreadsheet.
56:30
SPEAKER_00: Congratulations.
56:31
SPEAKER_00: It's very stupid, but I'm very happy.
56:33
SPEAKER_00: No, that's awesome.
56:34
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
56:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and in those movies, I know you've seen this, Steve Hurley is signing out with saying tombstone sucks.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm agree.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: Perfect way to go.
56:42
SPEAKER_00: Perfect way to leave.
56:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, congrats on that.
56:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh all right.
56:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, everyone, have a great night, and we will see you next Tuesday.