Transcript

Credlin | 22 April · Credlin

0:02
Speaker 1: Greenlin Live on Sky News Australia.
0:06
Speaker 2: I am a little younger, but I just squeaked in
0:09
Speaker 2: some primary school years in the seventies. Good on you,
0:11
Speaker 2: Chris for telling the truth. Good evening, Welcome to the program.
0:14
Speaker 2: Here's what's coming up tonight on Kredlin. Labour's being pitched
0:17
Speaker 2: to Rain in the NDS. It's a runaway scheme that
0:20
Speaker 2: Labor itself set up to fail under Julia Gillard. Now
0:23
Speaker 2: I was in Camber at the time. I'll explain the
0:26
Speaker 2: history in a moment, but I think they're playing politics
0:29
Speaker 2: still today, trying to run through changes in budget week.
0:33
Speaker 2: I'll pull that Apart to all those who wrote off
0:36
Speaker 2: one Nation after Monday Nights slight drop in News poll,
0:40
Speaker 2: well what do you say to nights to the Sky
0:42
Speaker 2: News poll that's got one Nation drawing level with Labor
0:46
Speaker 2: on primary vote. Now this is huge. That analys us
0:49
Speaker 2: with Tom Connell coming out, plus more on the backlash
0:52
Speaker 2: against UK born to doctor Beth Upton, a biological male
0:56
Speaker 2: now registered as a female doctor. In News Wales and
1:01
Speaker 2: Part two tonight, I might sit down with Peter Costello.
1:03
Speaker 2: We cover a lot of ground the upcoming budget energy
1:07
Speaker 2: his Frank assessment on the performance of Jim Chalmers and
1:11
Speaker 2: warning bells over state debt, particularly in Victoria.
1:16
Speaker 1: I actually think the rating agencies have been very easy on.
1:19
Speaker 3: Some of these states.
1:21
Speaker 2: You think it's worse.
1:22
Speaker 1: They assume that somehow the Commonwealth government's going to come
1:25
Speaker 1: in and rescue these states.
1:29
Speaker 2: Costello does not miss. But first, finally, finally, the Albanzer
1:33
Speaker 2: government is inching towards reforming the NDIS. But it's more
1:37
Speaker 2: about striking a pose, I'm sorry to say, than making
1:39
Speaker 2: a difference with the hard decisions subject to further work
1:42
Speaker 2: and the agreement of the states. Because under the scheme
1:46
Speaker 2: as designed by the then very desperate PM Julia Gillard
1:50
Speaker 2: not long before she was rolled by Kevin Rudd, the
1:53
Speaker 2: states wheel the power, but it's the Commonwealth that writes
1:57
Speaker 2: the checks.
1:58
Speaker 4: Before we get.
1:58
Speaker 2: Into some of the detail on the announcements today, here's
2:02
Speaker 2: the basic problem. Now, for years, disability advocates had demanded
2:06
Speaker 2: a national scheme Medicare. They wouldn't medicare for people with
2:10
Speaker 2: disabilities because the states had been inconsistent and to be honest,
2:14
Speaker 2: inadequate about the provision of disability services. People with the
2:19
Speaker 2: same disabilities got different services. Depending on where they lived
2:24
Speaker 2: and often whether they could get into a relatively small
2:27
Speaker 2: number of institutionalized providers. And that's a really important point
2:33
Speaker 2: when we talk about the NDS. It only came into
2:37
Speaker 2: being because the states were not looking after people as
2:41
Speaker 2: they should. They were cutting corners and they were cutting budgets.
2:45
Speaker 2: Now at the time, back in twenty thirteen, there was
2:48
Speaker 2: so much good will. As pitched by the advocates. The
2:53
Speaker 2: NDIS we were told would be modeled on the state
2:56
Speaker 2: accident compensation schemes, where premiums covered treatment designed to keep
3:01
Speaker 2: people back to almost full health. And that's how you
3:05
Speaker 2: get the term insurance in the title, even though there
3:08
Speaker 2: was nothing insurance like the NDIS at the time. Advocates
3:14
Speaker 2: argue that the NDIS would more or less pay for
3:17
Speaker 2: itself by turning large numbers of people who would previously
3:21
Speaker 2: have been left on the scrap heap with life changing
3:24
Speaker 2: disabilities into workers rather than pensioners. The idea was that
3:29
Speaker 2: the government would pay premiums on behalf of all Australians
3:33
Speaker 2: and that people with very serious disabilities would be funded
3:36
Speaker 2: to receive the services that they needed from high quality
3:40
Speaker 2: professional providers. But it was never going to work like this,
3:45
Speaker 2: as the Opposition argued at the time. They supported the scheme, sure,
3:50
Speaker 2: but they felt the whole establishment of it, pulling it together,
3:54
Speaker 2: creating it. They argued, it was rushed, indeed panicked.
4:00
Speaker 5: The National Disability Insurance Scheme itself is.
4:05
Speaker 4: A work in progress.
4:06
Speaker 6: It is a building site. Much is yet to be done.
4:11
Speaker 4: Much of the design work, indeed, is.
4:14
Speaker 3: Yet to be completed. We still don't know.
4:18
Speaker 5: Who will be eligible for the NDIS. We don't know
4:23
Speaker 5: what is covered by the NDIS. We don't know the
4:27
Speaker 5: extent of coverage by the NDIS. We don't know the
4:34
Speaker 5: precise role of the states in the operations of the NDIS,
4:39
Speaker 5: if any. Indeed, the very nature of the scheme itself
4:43
Speaker 5: is yet to be determined.
4:48
Speaker 2: It was all done deliberately by Guillit in an election
4:51
Speaker 2: year and without very strong management. The numbers on the
4:55
Speaker 2: scheme is Abbitt warned at the time it was Opposition
4:59
Speaker 2: leader or they were inevitably going to soar and along
5:02
Speaker 2: with it budget costs and what they received from the
5:06
Speaker 2: scheme was inevitably going to expand beyond what was strictly necessary.
5:11
Speaker 2: Because when we saw this with pink Bats under Labor
5:13
Speaker 2: too routers and scammers can't help being attracted to big
5:18
Speaker 2: pots of government money. Now, Originally the NDIAS was meant
5:21
Speaker 2: to cost some thirteen billion a year, half from the Commonwealth,
5:26
Speaker 2: half from the States, but desperate to sign on the States,
5:30
Speaker 2: Gillard agreed that any uplifting costs would be paid for
5:34
Speaker 2: by Canberra, which immediately introduced the incentive of states to
5:38
Speaker 2: cost shift to the Commonwealth. So where are we now, Well,
5:42
Speaker 2: currently there's almost eight hundred thousand people on the INDIS,
5:46
Speaker 2: so that's double those original expectations costs, or they're running
5:50
Speaker 2: at almost fifty billion dollars that is four times the
5:54
Speaker 2: original budget. There are literally tens of thousands of INDIS
5:58
Speaker 2: providers now ninety center of them they are not even registered.
6:02
Speaker 2: And there's way too many scammers and crooks. Over ten
6:07
Speaker 2: percent of all boys in Australia age five to eight
6:10
Speaker 2: are on the NDIS for autism or developmental delays, and
6:15
Speaker 2: taxpayer fund at NDIS services will they include things like
6:18
Speaker 2: getting a lawn mode, a trip to the pictures, even
6:22
Speaker 2: a cruise ship holiday. Now it's a mess. And because
6:27
Speaker 2: Julia Gillard, as I said, was desperate for a deal
6:29
Speaker 2: to give a failing government some sort of legacy agreeing
6:33
Speaker 2: to the Commonwealth covering almost all the funding increases. As
6:37
Speaker 2: I said, the states now provide less than thirty percent
6:41
Speaker 2: of total funding to the NDIS and many this is
6:46
Speaker 2: always going to happen. They have shunted away the services
6:49
Speaker 2: that they were supposed to maintain onto the commonwealth, but
6:54
Speaker 2: cleaning it ups near impossible because of the governance of
6:56
Speaker 2: the scheme. It is a nightmare. It's run by the
6:59
Speaker 2: mob called NDIA, the National Disability Insurance Agency, and they're
7:04
Speaker 2: mostly disability advocates appointed by state and federal government. There's
7:09
Speaker 2: no proper ministerial accountability, there's no proper apartment, and no
7:13
Speaker 2: one fronts estimates in the Senate in the usual way,
7:16
Speaker 2: so very little real financial security. In other words, there's
7:21
Speaker 2: no one really in charge, no one really to take responsibility.
7:25
Speaker 2: And ultimately, you, as taxpayers, will you pick up the
7:28
Speaker 2: tab as services that will never be enough, at least
7:32
Speaker 2: for the advocates and the recipients. At the heart of
7:36
Speaker 2: today's announcement is a plan to reassess every participant against
7:39
Speaker 2: new criteria for what counts as functional capacity. The aim
7:44
Speaker 2: by Labor is to get those numbers down to about
7:46
Speaker 2: six hundred thousand. But as always with this mob, the
7:51
Speaker 2: devil's in the detail, and that detail is yet to
7:54
Speaker 2: be worked out. In any event, these new arrangements won't
7:57
Speaker 2: be in place until January twenty twenty eight. That's eighteen
8:01
Speaker 2: months away, conveniently after the next election. Now what worried
8:06
Speaker 2: me most about today it is how genuine the government
8:10
Speaker 2: really is here, how genuine they are to reform the NDIS.
8:15
Speaker 2: Because I was dismayed to hear that they want to
8:19
Speaker 2: ram all of these proposed changes through the Parliament in
8:23
Speaker 2: budget week. Rushing a complex policy like the NDIS is
8:28
Speaker 2: what got labor into this mess in the first place,
8:32
Speaker 2: and doing it again. No, and I hope I am
8:35
Speaker 2: wrong here, but this just says to me this is
8:39
Speaker 2: smoke and mirrors accounting by Labor and fake We're getting
8:43
Speaker 2: tough budget spin.
8:49
Speaker 6: All right.
8:50
Speaker 2: The Pharao by election shaping up as a real chest
8:52
Speaker 2: not just for the coalition partners, not the lives of
8:55
Speaker 2: Naths only, but also for One Nation and the allbreed
8:58
Speaker 2: teal Michelle Milf And just to highlight how much money
9:02
Speaker 2: Millthorpe's strowing around, have a look at the table on
9:05
Speaker 2: the screen This is the last ninety days of the
9:08
Speaker 2: advertising spend for all four candidates on meta. So this
9:13
Speaker 2: is the ads they're running across Facebook and all the
9:15
Speaker 2: other meta platforms. Now it is current as of Friday.
9:20
Speaker 2: And just look at how much the Teal is outstripping
9:23
Speaker 2: her opponents with her media buy. The Teals spending are
9:28
Speaker 2: whopping sixty six point six thousand dollars, the Libs four thousand,
9:35
Speaker 2: but that's twenty seven hundred and one Nation's David Farley, Well,
9:39
Speaker 2: he's spending least just over two thousand dollars advertising on
9:44
Speaker 2: Facebook and elsewhere. Millthorpe, as you know, is bankrolled by
9:48
Speaker 2: Climbate two hundred. They're pushing hard to raise her a
9:51
Speaker 2: million dollars for the seat. And she's also got an
9:54
Speaker 2: army of activists flying in from Sydney to help out
9:57
Speaker 2: on the ground. Now will it work? We'll see the
10:00
Speaker 2: preference flows here will be crucial. I've got Tom Connell
10:04
Speaker 2: coming up to take us through the deals that have
10:06
Speaker 2: been done. And to all those commentators, is said on Monday,
10:09
Speaker 2: one Nation was done out of that news poll. Think again,
10:14
Speaker 2: hold your horses, I said at the time. I want
10:16
Speaker 2: to see the trend before I'm going to call it. Well,
10:19
Speaker 2: there's a new poll today, Sky News Pulse poll and
10:22
Speaker 2: it's got One Nation now level with Labor on primary vote.
10:26
Speaker 2: That's why when you want to talk about politics, real
10:30
Speaker 2: experience matters. All right, let's get into all the detail here.
10:41
Speaker 2: There's some good stuff coming. Sky's chief election analyst, Tom Connor.
10:44
Speaker 2: We're going to pull apart the Sky Pulse poll if
10:47
Speaker 2: we can. First, Tom, you've heard me just then on
10:52
Speaker 2: the One Nation surge. Though people out there Monday saying
10:55
Speaker 2: it's all over, you know, they're gone News poll that
10:59
Speaker 2: showed there was a draw in the One Nation primary.
11:02
Speaker 2: But you've got a poll now that says they're level
11:04
Speaker 2: peaking with the Albanizer government. What's going on?
11:09
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, there are always different polls, Peter, but our
11:12
Speaker 7: support for One Nation has tracked along fairly consistently, perhaps
11:16
Speaker 7: bounced around a little bit less than most. These are
11:18
Speaker 7: the latest figures here. So one Nation and Labor for
11:21
Speaker 7: the first time a level. Remember the coalition when they
11:23
Speaker 7: got level with One Nation, we thought, well this last
11:25
Speaker 7: look at this twenty seven each.
11:27
Speaker 4: What's interesting about.
11:27
Speaker 7: This is label was thirty four and a half at
11:29
Speaker 7: the last election, so seven and a half percent, or
11:32
Speaker 7: have fifth of their support since that election is gone
11:35
Speaker 7: one nation up too, which is a pretty significant movement
11:37
Speaker 7: in one poll. The Conservative coalition is it's stagnant. Yes,
11:42
Speaker 7: it's steady, but it's really stagnant and they're not getting
11:44
Speaker 7: the pick up when Labour lose vote, which would be
11:47
Speaker 7: crucial to them. If you add the three to the
11:49
Speaker 7: coalition instead of going to two to one nation, suddenly
11:52
Speaker 7: they're a lot closer together.
11:53
Speaker 4: So that's the concern. Out of this poll.
11:55
Speaker 7: The Greens the highest we've had in sky News poles
11:58
Speaker 7: as well, two party preferred.
12:00
Speaker 4: Well, we've got our two options.
12:01
Speaker 7: Let's go to the one that's closest first of all,
12:04
Speaker 7: and that's Labor versus one Nation. As you see here
12:06
Speaker 7: fifty two to forty eight. So that's a big closing
12:08
Speaker 7: from last time. It was fifty five forty five last
12:11
Speaker 7: time and we had this. And the other one is
12:13
Speaker 7: Labor versus the Coalition. Again, this has closed since last
12:16
Speaker 7: time and since that election. It was fifty five to
12:19
Speaker 7: forty five at the electional very close to that, and
12:22
Speaker 7: you can see it's fifty three forty seven.
12:24
Speaker 4: Interesting as well when you break down.
12:26
Speaker 7: Of course, the support when it comes to one nation
12:30
Speaker 7: or Pauline Hanson specifically as the leader compared to Anthony Albanezi.
12:34
Speaker 7: So she is in terms of the preferred leader here
12:38
Speaker 7: as you can see, she's actually the preferred leader for
12:41
Speaker 7: fifty to sixty four year olds, for those who label
12:44
Speaker 7: themselves working class voters.
12:46
Speaker 4: Just to be important on how we sort of mentioned that.
12:48
Speaker 7: And whilst outa Metro has labor as the lead there,
12:51
Speaker 7: they're not all the.
12:52
Speaker 4: Same those seats.
12:52
Speaker 7: That points to a close enough contest where label would
12:56
Speaker 7: be concerned about losing those out of suburban seats they
12:58
Speaker 7: hung on to them for example, and that's out Australian
13:00
Speaker 7: state election, Peter.
13:01
Speaker 4: But with a very popular leader.
13:02
Speaker 7: So the overall leader should mention for Anthony Elbanezi is
13:05
Speaker 7: fifty to thirty nine versus paul and Hanson with eleven undecided.
13:08
Speaker 7: But fascinating some of those demographics that say Pauline Hanson
13:12
Speaker 7: who's in the Senate. Of course we've got to mention that,
13:14
Speaker 7: but they say she'd be a better Prime minister.
13:18
Speaker 2: Just leave that tile up if you could, tom that
13:21
Speaker 2: preferred PM tyle, because I want to make the point
13:24
Speaker 2: to people at home that is where the Abbot Army
13:26
Speaker 2: or the Howard battler traditionally came from. So that is
13:29
Speaker 2: a very happy hunting ground for Liberals who want to
13:32
Speaker 2: win elections, and its diabolical for them in opposition if
13:36
Speaker 2: they cannot get that sort of vote block in Why
13:39
Speaker 2: is Labour's primary vote falling?
13:43
Speaker 7: If you look at what happened in the last electoral cycle,
13:47
Speaker 7: Labour's primary vote was relatively low in twenty two and
13:50
Speaker 7: that was pretty similar in twenty twenty five. What do
13:52
Speaker 7: they take to the election campaign? Not a lot of
13:55
Speaker 7: major change, Peter. So if it's as steady as she
13:57
Speaker 7: goes government, but it's not going all that steadily. If
14:01
Speaker 7: you look at the economy, if you look at inflation,
14:03
Speaker 7: it was under control and then it wasn't you know,
14:05
Speaker 7: the big issues in people's lives have changed for the worst.
14:09
Speaker 7: So it makes sense that Labour's vote would go down.
14:12
Speaker 7: This would always be the opportunity you'd think as well,
14:14
Speaker 7: normally for the Coalition, and this is the concern for
14:17
Speaker 7: them that Labour's Vote's gone down seven and a half
14:20
Speaker 7: percentage points and the fact that that has not gone
14:24
Speaker 7: to the Coalition, that it has lost a vote in
14:26
Speaker 7: a net sense as well.
14:27
Speaker 4: So the conditions are obviously there.
14:29
Speaker 7: This doesn't mean labor can't recover, but it does mean
14:33
Speaker 7: they're clearly so far. The government and just the state
14:36
Speaker 7: of the economy in the nation, well, things are a
14:38
Speaker 7: lot harder than they were a bit more than a
14:40
Speaker 7: year ago.
14:40
Speaker 4: So that and of itself is pretty logical.
14:43
Speaker 7: If someone said here's where inflation is a year later,
14:45
Speaker 7: you'd say, well, gee, labor must be struggling. What wouldn't
14:48
Speaker 7: be as easy to predict back then is the surge
14:50
Speaker 7: of one nation.
14:53
Speaker 2: Labor. Of course, to try and blame everything in terms
14:56
Speaker 2: of the budget wise, inflation and fuel on Donald Trump,
14:59
Speaker 2: and the voters in those poles are not coming with
15:02
Speaker 2: them on that. We've got a resolve pole that sees
15:05
Speaker 2: one nation in Victoria is in trench. That'll be a
15:08
Speaker 2: problem for the Libs at the state election in November.
15:10
Speaker 2: But before that, of course, we've got this Faro by election.
15:13
Speaker 2: The preference deals here are critical Tom the Libs in
15:17
Speaker 2: the Nats, they are preferencing one nation ahead of the Teal.
15:21
Speaker 2: She calls herself an independent, Michelle that Millthorpe. We all
15:23
Speaker 2: know where she comes from. She's a teal. How material
15:28
Speaker 2: will this preference flow be on Saturday Night in a
15:31
Speaker 2: couple of weeks.
15:34
Speaker 7: Well, it's going to be significant because one nation will
15:37
Speaker 7: not get any help of course from the Greens, and
15:39
Speaker 7: their vote might be boosted up because Labour's not running.
15:43
Speaker 7: The Greens traditionally run ninety ten against one nation if
15:47
Speaker 7: it's anyone they can stand, so that's how you'd expect
15:49
Speaker 7: it to run for Michelle Milthorpe. So there's a disadvantage
15:52
Speaker 7: there and one nation and the rest of the candidates
15:55
Speaker 7: might go okay, maybe it splits the rest of the vote.
15:57
Speaker 7: So if they're pretty level with Michelle Millthorpe, one nation
16:01
Speaker 7: has to get help in the Liberals and Nationals.
16:03
Speaker 4: So that's crucial for them.
16:05
Speaker 7: If we look at the last time that they were
16:07
Speaker 7: given an advantage over Independence and Labor as well, in
16:10
Speaker 7: that South Australian election, it wasn't something Liberal Party voters
16:15
Speaker 7: just obeyed.
16:16
Speaker 4: Now they went at about two thirds one third.
16:19
Speaker 7: That still helps, but that's not as solid as when
16:22
Speaker 7: you get voters that follow those out of vote cards
16:24
Speaker 7: in a really disciplined manner of sort of. You know,
16:27
Speaker 7: I think you'd agree, probably Peter eighty plus is when
16:29
Speaker 7: you're talking about disciplined voters, and that hasn't tended to
16:32
Speaker 7: be the case last state election, at least when liberal
16:36
Speaker 7: and national voters were said, hey, we're now supporting one
16:39
Speaker 7: nation ahead of labor or independence. So I think that
16:42
Speaker 7: will be the interesting part as well, that it's not
16:44
Speaker 7: against labor, it's again it's an independent, so maybe the
16:46
Speaker 7: flow is even lower than that. So there's how to
16:48
Speaker 7: vote cards and that always helps, but it's how it
16:51
Speaker 7: actually plays out that can be a factor as well.
16:55
Speaker 2: I know it comes in number three on that night
16:57
Speaker 2: in a couple of weeks time, Tom, thank you. That
16:59
Speaker 2: is we will be Saturday, the ninth of May. Will
17:02
Speaker 2: albeit Sky tom Me the whole crew at six o'clock.
17:06
Speaker 2: It'll be a Pharaoh bye election. Do not miss it.
17:09
Speaker 2: Let's go out of the big stories today skyne is
17:11
Speaker 2: reporter Carolen Marcus and our national affairs editor at the Telly,
17:14
Speaker 2: and of course Sky News host James Morrow. I've run
17:18
Speaker 2: through at the top of the show there a little
17:20
Speaker 2: bit of the history of the NDS. So was there
17:23
Speaker 2: at the time, Yes, it was Julia Gillard, but she
17:26
Speaker 2: was knife not long after by Kevin Rudd. It was
17:29
Speaker 2: doomed to file in my view from the get go,
17:32
Speaker 2: as she basically gave way all the cards to the states.
17:35
Speaker 2: It was cobbled together, and everyone's been too scared to
17:39
Speaker 2: deal with the foundations, the poor foundations of this program
17:43
Speaker 2: ever since. And you know, we know about the roots,
17:46
Speaker 2: we know about the cruise holidays, we know about nights,
17:48
Speaker 2: the movies. Well, in today's paper we've got people getting
17:51
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars, mattresses, even fancy kitchen thermafixes, for goodness sake,
17:57
Speaker 2: all covered under the scheme. This is where the good
18:00
Speaker 2: wiels evaporated, James. And I'll tell you what if the
18:02
Speaker 2: government can't fix it this time, I don't think people
18:06
Speaker 2: are going to support this scheme going further.
18:09
Speaker 8: No, I think you're right, Peter. I mean I hate
18:12
Speaker 8: the term social license. I mean, where do you go
18:14
Speaker 8: to get your social license renewed? But I really do
18:17
Speaker 8: think that it applies in the case of the NDIS
18:19
Speaker 8: because people know that this was a thing, and people
18:23
Speaker 8: aren't dummy. It's the political class here tries to treat
18:25
Speaker 8: people like they've got the memory of a goldfish. People
18:28
Speaker 8: remember what the NDIS was supposed to be for it
18:31
Speaker 8: was supposed to be for those people who were really
18:33
Speaker 8: in trouble, who had profound disability, things of that nature,
18:36
Speaker 8: and they see the way it has expanded and blown out,
18:39
Speaker 8: and they see the rewards, and you know, I think
18:42
Speaker 8: Labor has cotton on the fact that if they keep going,
18:45
Speaker 8: people are going to say, look, we need to blow
18:47
Speaker 8: the whole thing up and start again, which they don't
18:49
Speaker 8: want to do. But I think there's a problem with
18:52
Speaker 8: the approach that they've laid out here. I mean, yes,
18:54
Speaker 8: it's very good to reevaluate everybody, all the individuals, but
18:59
Speaker 8: I think that that also if they're focusing on that,
19:02
Speaker 8: they're not focusing enough on where the real fraud is
19:04
Speaker 8: taking place, and that's at the provider level.
19:09
Speaker 2: Look eighty months away. None of this is going to
19:11
Speaker 2: happen for eighty months, So they'll buy themselves clean air
19:14
Speaker 2: and the other side of an election, Caroline, and I
19:18
Speaker 2: don't think that there will be real systemic changes. They
19:21
Speaker 2: were to ran the legislation through the Parliament in Budget week,
19:24
Speaker 2: while the Coalition is grappling with all the detail announced
19:28
Speaker 2: on Tuesday night. That doesn't say to me that they're
19:30
Speaker 2: being feddikom either. What did you make of what Labor
19:33
Speaker 2: announced today.
19:34
Speaker 9: Look in theory, I think they're all good measures. You know,
19:39
Speaker 9: cutting back on the number of people who are on
19:41
Speaker 9: the scheme. One hundred and sixty thousand people are going
19:44
Speaker 9: to be cut. Labor says they're going to pair back
19:47
Speaker 9: the average packages that they're offering people by about five
19:51
Speaker 9: thousand dollars of package. Great, They're going to be reassessing
19:56
Speaker 9: everyone who's currently on the scheme according to new criteria
19:59
Speaker 9: eligibility criteria tick you know, but none of this is
20:03
Speaker 9: going to be a laugh to address the massive elephant
20:07
Speaker 9: in the room, which is that we simply cannot afford
20:10
Speaker 9: a scheme like this and it is.
20:12
Speaker 2: Being roarted to the hills.
20:16
Speaker 9: I'm not convinced that any of this will be enough
20:18
Speaker 9: to make it sustainable long term. Even if they cut
20:22
Speaker 9: the growth to two percent, it's going to grow again
20:25
Speaker 9: and people are going to just find new ways to water.
20:28
Speaker 2: I mean, you mentioned we.
20:28
Speaker 9: Have a laugh about some of the things people try
20:31
Speaker 9: and claim on their NDIS packages, like five thousand dollar mattresses.
20:37
Speaker 9: One woman who had depression and anxiety, I mean, why
20:39
Speaker 9: is she on NDIS in the first place. It's supposed
20:42
Speaker 9: to be for the most disabled among us. She was
20:45
Speaker 9: trying to claim a washer and a dryer and standard
20:48
Speaker 9: household items.
20:49
Speaker 2: Even when these items.
20:51
Speaker 9: Are being knocked back, the scheme is paying millions of
20:55
Speaker 9: dollars seventy five million dollars last year alone, Peter in
20:59
Speaker 9: five appeals by patients who are then dissatisfied that they've
21:05
Speaker 9: been rejected, so they're taking it to a tribunal, and
21:08
Speaker 9: Anyis has to then spend millions of dollars to fight
21:12
Speaker 9: it with lawyers. It is not sustainable in any form.
21:17
Speaker 2: I think. I think James is right.
21:20
Speaker 9: You might have they might have to blow it all up,
21:22
Speaker 9: and I think there is increasingly less goodwill for it,
21:27
Speaker 9: less social license.
21:28
Speaker 2: Oh there's no doubt about that, No doubt about that, James,
21:32
Speaker 2: your paper and the other news court papers around the country.
21:36
Speaker 2: They've had a really big win today because in and
21:38
Speaker 2: around this NDIS announcement, labor sort of squeezed in hope
21:43
Speaker 2: we wouldn't notice, of course, squeezed in quite a backflip
21:47
Speaker 2: on age care, the services that are provided to people
21:50
Speaker 2: in their home. We had some changes announced by the
21:52
Speaker 2: government last year which meant a whole lot of people
21:55
Speaker 2: elderly Australians were down to being able to shower with
21:59
Speaker 2: support what maybe once a week. They are really struggling
22:03
Speaker 2: in terms of those home care packages. They've had to
22:07
Speaker 2: back down today. And this is a good thing.
22:09
Speaker 8: This is a very good thing. And I mean this
22:12
Speaker 8: should go so far beyond politics here to give people
22:15
Speaker 8: an idea and you touched on it there, but people
22:18
Speaker 8: really literally having to choose between hygiene and food, all right,
22:23
Speaker 8: and these are our oldest Australians, you know, people who
22:25
Speaker 8: have paid into the system their whole life, people who
22:27
Speaker 8: have been contributing, people who deserve dignity in old age,
22:31
Speaker 8: and they were being forced to choose between these two things.
22:34
Speaker 8: And the amounts that were being charged. You know, we're
22:37
Speaker 8: talking about you know, one hundred dollars for a shower,
22:39
Speaker 8: things like that. Unbelievable, and you know, similar amounts of
22:43
Speaker 8: money for very simple meals, you know, certain meals that
22:46
Speaker 8: you wouldn't get from takeaway for one third of the price. Yes,
22:49
Speaker 8: the government has backed down. It is I think it's
22:51
Speaker 8: a win obviously for the Telegraph and for the papers here,
22:54
Speaker 8: but it's a win for Australians. It's a win for
22:57
Speaker 8: older Australians. And thank god that the government down on that.
23:02
Speaker 2: They don't want thermer mixes and five thousand dollars mattresses.
23:05
Speaker 2: They just want the absolute basics. And you're right to
23:07
Speaker 2: make the point. They have paid their taxes all their lives.
23:10
Speaker 2: They're asking for modest supporting. If they're not helped in
23:13
Speaker 2: their home, of course, they end up in a nursing home,
23:15
Speaker 2: which costs a text by a hell of a lot more.
23:18
Speaker 2: Hey Carol, I've got to get your take on doctor
23:20
Speaker 2: Beth Upton. I tell people about her last night, her
23:24
Speaker 2: him transgender woman. So a biological male is now registered
23:29
Speaker 2: or licensed in Australia as a female doctor to practice
23:34
Speaker 2: in hospitals in New South Wales.
23:37
Speaker 9: It's scary, isn't it, Peter an extraordinary that someone who
23:41
Speaker 9: denies the reality of biological sex, this doctor And I'm
23:45
Speaker 9: glad we can say doctor because I don't have to
23:48
Speaker 9: mess around with someone's preferred.
23:50
Speaker 2: Pronouns doctor Upton.
23:53
Speaker 9: It says that she he she thinks biological sex is
23:59
Speaker 9: just a dog with and this is a person who
24:01
Speaker 9: is making medical decisions. You've got to question a medical
24:05
Speaker 9: practitioner who denies science, basic science. But not only that,
24:11
Speaker 9: this doctor was at the center of this UK tribunal
24:13
Speaker 9: where a nurse who refused to share female staff change
24:18
Speaker 9: rooms with this doctor had brought this case to the
24:22
Speaker 9: tribunal and under evidence, doctor Upton told the tribunal that
24:27
Speaker 9: if someone had turned up to the hospital requesting a
24:31
Speaker 9: female doctor, that doctor Upton had every intention of still
24:36
Speaker 9: treating that patient. Now this means that at the two
24:39
Speaker 9: news Upwells hospitals that doctor Upton is now allowed to
24:43
Speaker 9: work at, if you're a woman and you turn up
24:46
Speaker 9: needing emergency care and you request a female doctor for
24:50
Speaker 9: whatever reason, religious, cultural, it's a sensitive medical issue that
24:55
Speaker 9: you want a female treating you, you could end up
24:58
Speaker 9: with a biological male doctor.
25:00
Speaker 2: I think that is a travesty. You are not wrong.
25:03
Speaker 2: I think they are anyone fronting after a sexual assault
25:07
Speaker 2: and they want a female if they're a female that's
25:10
Speaker 2: been obviously abused. Not good enough for all the talk
25:13
Speaker 2: that labor has about DV and women and women's rights.
25:16
Speaker 2: Not good enough. Thank you to you both all right
25:19
Speaker 2: after the break the second part of my sit down
25:21
Speaker 2: with Peter Costello. He says we're squandering our good fortune
25:25
Speaker 2: by not using fossil fuels to power our economy, and
25:28
Speaker 2: he doesn't mince his words when it comes to his
25:31
Speaker 2: assessment of the upcoming budget or the man who's pulling
25:34
Speaker 2: it together. Jim Chalmers talk about coming up Kel Richards
25:42
Speaker 2: with two words. Let me tell you that politicians they
25:46
Speaker 2: get wrong all the time, but they should know better.
25:50
Speaker 2: But first, the second part of our exclusive sit down
25:53
Speaker 2: with Australia's longest serving treasurer. It was twenty years ago
25:56
Speaker 2: on April twenty one, two thousand and six. Costello had
26:00
Speaker 2: led Australia to historic debt free status. But tonight he
26:04
Speaker 2: reflects on the economic decline of our nation since and
26:08
Speaker 2: his thoughts in Australia's energy fragility exposed by the fuel crisis,
26:13
Speaker 2: with a budget looming against a climate of rising inflation
26:16
Speaker 2: and low productivity. I started by asking mister Costello what
26:21
Speaker 2: he would do in Jim Chalmer's shoes.
26:25
Speaker 1: Well, the first point I make is I wouldn't be
26:28
Speaker 1: starting from here right. I'd have got things in a
26:33
Speaker 1: much stronger position.
26:35
Speaker 3: But we are starting from here now because of previous ways.
26:41
Speaker 3: Obviously we've got a rain in expenditure.
26:46
Speaker 1: Expenditure was driving the inflation pre Iran, As I said,
26:50
Speaker 1: pre run. We're at three point eight percent right now.
26:55
Speaker 1: From Iran. You'll get increases in oil prices and petrol prices.
26:59
Speaker 3: And transportation that will feed into inflation.
27:01
Speaker 1: But pre run, we're in a bad position, and that
27:04
Speaker 1: was being driven by wanton wanton public expenditure. So they've
27:11
Speaker 1: got to do something about that, obviously. But obviously they've
27:15
Speaker 1: got to look at why we're performing so poorly in productivity.
27:20
Speaker 1: One of the reasons is our taxes are too high, right,
27:23
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't be increasing taxes in this budget.
27:26
Speaker 3: They will, of course I wouldn't. It's going to do
27:29
Speaker 3: nothing for productivity, by the way.
27:32
Speaker 1: And the other thing, it's as clear as the nose
27:35
Speaker 1: on your face. Energy costs such a big part of
27:40
Speaker 1: the story on productivity.
27:42
Speaker 3: Right now.
27:44
Speaker 1: We're in a situation now where where oil prices are
27:47
Speaker 1: going up, petrol prices are going with, diesel prices are
27:49
Speaker 1: going up, fertilizer prices are going up, right, and it
27:54
Speaker 1: cries out to me that we should have our own
27:56
Speaker 1: oil development in this country.
28:00
Speaker 3: We should have gas. We've got a policy of getting
28:03
Speaker 3: rid of all of these things.
28:05
Speaker 1: By the way, when I was in gavernment back in
28:07
Speaker 1: two thousand, we were self sufficient in oil.
28:10
Speaker 3: So back in two thousand.
28:13
Speaker 1: Now some of those reserves have run down best straight
28:17
Speaker 1: for example. But we haven't encouraged new exploration in new development.
28:21
Speaker 1: In fact, the whole policy has been to stop new
28:25
Speaker 1: exploration and new development.
28:27
Speaker 3: He walked down the city street.
28:29
Speaker 1: Here, there's a big sign on the city street no
28:31
Speaker 1: new oil or gas, Peter. We live on a continent, right,
28:38
Speaker 1: We've got a whole continent. And yet we're up in Singapore,
28:43
Speaker 1: which is a tiny little island, and we're all.
28:47
Speaker 2: We're blessed with what's in the ground.
28:49
Speaker 1: Here looking for oil from Singapore, it's just a little
28:51
Speaker 1: city state. We've got a whole continent, by the way, right,
28:55
Speaker 1: we got reserves all over this continent. Gas were the biggest,
29:00
Speaker 1: one of the biggest gas producers in the world. There
29:03
Speaker 1: is more oil in Australia. Why aren't we developing it? Well,
29:06
Speaker 1: we've got a policy no new fossil fuels. This is
29:10
Speaker 1: our policy. This is it's not an accident that we're
29:14
Speaker 1: no longer producing enough for our own needs.
29:18
Speaker 3: This is a policy.
29:21
Speaker 1: This is a government policy that says we don't want
29:24
Speaker 1: new oil, we don't want to use gas. This is
29:28
Speaker 1: a policy we're in this predicament because we have chosen it.
29:31
Speaker 1: The rest of the world will be looking at us.
29:33
Speaker 1: I think up in Singapore they'd be saying, this is weird.
29:37
Speaker 1: These people have got a whole country, they've got all
29:39
Speaker 1: the resources. They're up here begging us for oil and gas.
29:43
Speaker 1: Why would this happen?
29:44
Speaker 2: This requires tough decisions at a grown up government. Let's
29:48
Speaker 2: talk about other things in the budget. The ndis around
29:52
Speaker 2: eight hundred thousand people, and it's a fifty billion dollar
29:56
Speaker 2: program Medicare services to twenty seven million of US the
30:01
Speaker 2: whole country. And it's a thirty five billion dollar program
30:05
Speaker 2: that's not sustainable.
30:07
Speaker 3: Now, of course it's not.
30:08
Speaker 1: The ndis poorly, poorly designed from the outset.
30:15
Speaker 3: If you have what we call a.
30:17
Speaker 1: Demand driven program, that is, anybody who wants to is
30:23
Speaker 1: entitled to come in if they meet the qualification and
30:28
Speaker 1: get the service, of course it will explode. There's no
30:32
Speaker 1: financial limit on it, and the criteria for getting the
30:38
Speaker 1: service is loose, and it can be expanded, and it
30:41
Speaker 1: has been expanded. This shouldn't surprise anybody. And it's expanded
30:47
Speaker 1: to fifty billion dollars. You know, I challenge you to
30:50
Speaker 1: go back and see what the government said it would
30:53
Speaker 1: be when it first came in.
30:54
Speaker 2: I think it was about twelve right topping out at
30:57
Speaker 2: twelve right.
30:59
Speaker 1: And of course the other thing was obvious. And you
31:01
Speaker 1: know I've been through this a million times before. This
31:04
Speaker 1: is the thing about being around these Commonwealth programs. Once
31:08
Speaker 1: the Commonwealth came in, where the rivers have all of
31:11
Speaker 1: the states vacated the field, why wouldn't they vacate the
31:16
Speaker 1: field because they were providing services in the disability area.
31:19
Speaker 1: But the common was going to come in and say
31:22
Speaker 1: this demand driven expenditure, they're going to get out of
31:25
Speaker 1: these services. Of course the game they just put the
31:28
Speaker 1: cost over onto the commonwth that's exactly what they did.
31:31
Speaker 1: So you know, we're at fifty billion dollars and they say,
31:33
Speaker 1: oh well we might try and we might try and
31:35
Speaker 1: restrict their growth to say eight percent peradum or something.
31:39
Speaker 1: You know, this this is the this is the latest.
31:41
Speaker 3: You think that's a success.
31:43
Speaker 1: A fifty billion crowing at eight percent paradum, You think
31:46
Speaker 1: that's a success.
31:47
Speaker 3: Of course it's not success.
31:49
Speaker 1: But that's a program which is now completely and utterly
31:52
Speaker 1: out of control.
31:52
Speaker 3: Obvious, obvious.
31:54
Speaker 2: Can I ask you about Labour's changes to institutions and
31:57
Speaker 2: the two I'm thinking of particularly here is the Reserve Bank,
32:00
Speaker 2: the changes to the border of the Reserve Bank and
32:03
Speaker 2: some other governance changes. Experts have said, well, that's really
32:06
Speaker 2: at risk of politicizing the Reserve Bank, and then the
32:10
Speaker 2: Future Fund altering the remit of the Future Fund and
32:15
Speaker 2: real concern and you were its chairman after you establish
32:17
Speaker 2: it when you left politics. The real concern that people
32:21
Speaker 2: have that will be raided to pay for today's expenditure.
32:27
Speaker 1: Right, well, let me come into the Future Fund first,
32:30
Speaker 1: the future After we paid off debt, the government is
32:36
Speaker 1: still spending less than it raises. So what do we
32:42
Speaker 1: do with the money? And I had this idea. We
32:45
Speaker 1: set up a Future Fund, right to help austraight his future.
32:49
Speaker 1: That's why it's called Future Fund, very popular name, by
32:53
Speaker 1: the way, futureman. And so the money, it's like you
32:58
Speaker 1: put money in the bankment, it puts its money in
33:01
Speaker 1: the future. And I was the last Treasurer to put
33:06
Speaker 1: any money in the Future Fund. Have put any money
33:08
Speaker 1: in the Future Fund since I stacked No no, no,
33:12
Speaker 1: no no. So it's basically been living off the money
33:17
Speaker 1: I put in near on twenty years ago, and it's
33:22
Speaker 1: grown that very successfully to two hundred and sixty billion dollars.
33:26
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
33:27
Speaker 1: Nobody else has been putting money into the Future Fund.
33:30
Speaker 1: No money to put.
33:31
Speaker 2: In or fair point, fair point right.
33:36
Speaker 1: So the Future Fund should, in my views, is the
33:40
Speaker 1: way I always run.
33:41
Speaker 3: It's the way I said it up.
33:43
Speaker 1: Future It should look out for investments and get the
33:47
Speaker 1: best return. In my view, if the Future Fund can
33:52
Speaker 1: find a good investment, let's say, in developing our oil reserves,
33:57
Speaker 1: why not. If it can find a good investment in
34:02
Speaker 1: developing our gas receives, why not? Are you getting a
34:06
Speaker 1: good return? What's wrong with doing all this? We're a
34:11
Speaker 1: coal export. If the Future Fund invests in coal companies,
34:16
Speaker 1: why not you know?
34:18
Speaker 3: In other words, you know, just look for the return. Now,
34:22
Speaker 3: what the government has.
34:23
Speaker 1: Said is they're against new oil, don't really like gas,
34:31
Speaker 1: hate coal, right, So they've changed its mandate to say, oh,
34:36
Speaker 1: it's got to have a preference for renewables. Now this
34:39
Speaker 1: is very dangerous because once the government says go and
34:42
Speaker 1: put your money and this that's in, this is most
34:45
Speaker 1: likely to be lost, or a substandard investment or something else.
34:49
Speaker 1: So they've tried to harness that money, money which labor
34:53
Speaker 1: of course never put into the Future Fund, you know,
34:58
Speaker 1: money which of course wouldn't have even been put into
35:02
Speaker 1: the future Fund if they'd have had their way, because
35:06
Speaker 1: they would have they wanted to run deficits sort of
35:10
Speaker 1: skew it to this political agenda, right, very dangerous that
35:16
Speaker 1: kind of thing. And why should it be skewed if
35:20
Speaker 1: I just don't understand this point? You know, if Australia
35:23
Speaker 1: has good reserves of oil and good reserves of gas, why.
35:29
Speaker 3: Shouldn't we develop it?
35:30
Speaker 1: The idea that it's terrible for us to develop them,
35:34
Speaker 1: but it's okay for Iran and Saudi Arabia and the
35:38
Speaker 1: UAE to develop them, will buy it from them.
35:41
Speaker 3: Right.
35:42
Speaker 2: Does the level of state debt concern you? We're in
35:45
Speaker 2: Victoria right now. Its debt is more than Queensland, New
35:49
Speaker 2: South Wales, Tasmania combine, and I suspect after the budget,
35:52
Speaker 2: after the election in November, it'll be worse.
35:56
Speaker 1: It does consume me. So the comm Walt's got about
35:58
Speaker 1: a trillion dollars out in gross debt and the states
36:04
Speaker 1: haven't got quite a trillion, but well, getting up there
36:07
Speaker 1: at three quarters of a trillion dollars at the state
36:09
Speaker 1: level as well. Now what that means is the commonwth
36:15
Speaker 1: government's got to pay interest bill and the state governments
36:19
Speaker 1: have got to pay their interest bill. A lot of
36:21
Speaker 1: money going out and interest on inherited debty. At the moment,
36:26
Speaker 1: it's worse at the state level because the states don't
36:30
Speaker 1: really have much of a tax base to service their debts.
36:36
Speaker 1: What have they got, Well, they've got the gst okay,
36:40
Speaker 1: and then they have land taxes, stamp duties on properties.
36:46
Speaker 3: And this is why again these escalating.
36:47
Speaker 2: Property and the risk with rating agencies's got to be real.
36:52
Speaker 1: Well, you see, I actually think the rating agencies have
36:55
Speaker 1: been very easy on some.
36:57
Speaker 3: Of these states.
36:58
Speaker 2: You think it's worse.
36:59
Speaker 1: I think they've been very easy. And the reason the
37:03
Speaker 1: states haven't been downgraded.
37:06
Speaker 3: More than they have.
37:09
Speaker 1: Is that they assume that somehow the Commonwealth government's going
37:12
Speaker 1: to come.
37:13
Speaker 3: In and rescue these states.
37:15
Speaker 1: If the ratings agency looked at the state of Victoria
37:18
Speaker 1: as a standalone operation and said it can't rely on.
37:22
Speaker 3: A Commonwealth guarantee.
37:24
Speaker 1: I think it's rating would be significantly lower than it
37:27
Speaker 1: currently is. But they think to themselves, oh, Commonwealth government
37:32
Speaker 1: wouldn't let Victoria go with it. Too big to fail,
37:36
Speaker 1: too big to fail, So okay, we'll give it a
37:41
Speaker 1: bit of a pass. I actually think, you know, this
37:45
Speaker 1: could be.
37:45
Speaker 3: A wake up call for Victoria.
37:47
Speaker 1: If the ratings Agency said, well, look a standlone operation
37:51
Speaker 1: you're not that good, will downgrade you. I mean, it
37:53
Speaker 1: could be a wake up call. Something needs to wake
37:55
Speaker 1: up the state of Victoria. I mean, the waste and
38:00
Speaker 1: the debt and the projects has just been abysmal.
38:06
Speaker 2: Can the Liberal Party win in Victoria in November?
38:08
Speaker 1: I think it can. It's not a laydown moziir. I
38:14
Speaker 1: think it can. It's got to prosecute the case against
38:20
Speaker 1: the state government and it's got to show competence. I
38:24
Speaker 1: think most people agree this is the Victorian The Andrews
38:28
Speaker 1: Allen government is just hopeless. I don't think you find
38:31
Speaker 1: anybody that would say they've done a good job. For example,
38:35
Speaker 1: the critical question in the elections going to be you know,
38:38
Speaker 1: can the Liberal Party do better? And I think they've
38:42
Speaker 1: got to show competence. They've got to show some unity.
38:47
Speaker 1: I think the public wants a change of government, has
38:50
Speaker 1: just got to be satisfied that these people will do it.
38:53
Speaker 2: When Jim Chalmers says, you know, tax reforms on its way.
38:58
Speaker 1: See, I hate the use of this word tax reform
39:01
Speaker 1: when money means is tax rises.
39:04
Speaker 3: This is not reform. Putting up taxes is not reform.
39:08
Speaker 1: I regard reform as introducing a better tax system by
39:13
Speaker 1: which we can raise sufficient revenue with a lesser burden
39:15
Speaker 1: on people.
39:16
Speaker 3: That's tax reform.
39:18
Speaker 1: We'll do it in a simpler way. We'll do it
39:20
Speaker 1: in a way that will help our economy. We'll lessen
39:24
Speaker 1: the burden and we'll get sufficient. That's tax reform. Now,
39:27
Speaker 1: all he talks about is tax rises.
39:30
Speaker 3: This is not reform. Don't let him get away with
39:32
Speaker 3: that word.
39:34
Speaker 2: How do you write him as a treasurer?
39:36
Speaker 3: Well, what do you think? That's all? I'll say?
39:44
Speaker 2: Diplomatic? Has ever? Based on your feedback that I got
39:48
Speaker 2: last night and into today, you wish he was back,
39:51
Speaker 2: don't you. Yeah, we're in a bad way, We're in
39:54
Speaker 2: an absolutely bad way. But he's still got it, hasn't he.
39:57
Speaker 2: Before we leave the issue of debt and you pull
39:58
Speaker 2: out today In Australia, this might surprise you across all ages, gender,
40:04
Speaker 2: political persuasion, the whole lot of what being seventy percent
40:07
Speaker 2: of voters say they are worried about debt. Only twenty
40:10
Speaker 2: six percent say they're not worried. Four percent, well, they're
40:13
Speaker 2: in they don't no category. Now, what I found particularly
40:16
Speaker 2: telling even amongst young people. So these are aged eighteen
40:19
Speaker 2: to thirty four years of age, sixty six percent of
40:22
Speaker 2: them said that they are somewhat too very worried about debt.
40:26
Speaker 2: So ask yourself, then, why are not enough politicians talking
40:31
Speaker 2: about it? As Peter Costello and John Howard used to
40:34
Speaker 2: all right after the rain, the brilliant Ross Greenworthy pulls
40:37
Speaker 2: all that apart in the interview with Costello. The ndis
40:40
Speaker 2: so this talk of new taxes on gas that's coming out,
40:48
Speaker 2: welcome back, get your thinking caps on at home. Those
40:51
Speaker 2: two words that I say politicians get wrong all the time.
40:54
Speaker 2: They're coming out with kel They shouldn't know better, but
40:57
Speaker 2: they don't. Let's get some analysis though, and a whole
40:59
Speaker 2: lot of up with my good friend who's with me
41:01
Speaker 2: at the desk, Ross green would our business editor. We
41:04
Speaker 2: were just talking in the breakdown about the indis where
41:07
Speaker 2: it's different than almost every other program. It's open to everyone.
41:12
Speaker 2: I know, participants have to be eligibility, but it's universal
41:16
Speaker 2: and once you're in it, it's a golden ticket, right
41:19
Speaker 2: because they'll write a different program for everybody, and it's
41:23
Speaker 2: big licks of money two hundred and three hundred thousand
41:25
Speaker 2: dollars and it pays for all manner of things. We've
41:28
Speaker 2: heard washing machines, therm and mixes, trips to the theater.
41:31
Speaker 6: So where is that right? Where is that good use?
41:34
Speaker 4: Yes?
41:34
Speaker 6: So what was of the taxpayers?
41:35
Speaker 2: What have they missed today? What haven't they done that
41:38
Speaker 2: they should have done in terms of containing costs?
41:40
Speaker 10: Well, okay, in terms of containing costs, surely the costs
41:44
Speaker 10: should be contained to the growth in your economy and
41:47
Speaker 10: that group of people going in and being eligible to
41:51
Speaker 10: the NDIS.
41:52
Speaker 2: So shrink the pool based on how we're going in
41:54
Speaker 2: the economy.
41:54
Speaker 10: Of course, that's everything should be judged. That's what pet
41:57
Speaker 10: Gestelle was talking about. Cut your cloth according to what's
42:00
Speaker 10: in front of you. Now, if you sit there and
42:03
Speaker 10: say that they were thinking about the NDI is growing
42:05
Speaker 10: at eight percent, but you've got an economy right now
42:08
Speaker 10: that is growing possibly at less than two percent. How
42:13
Speaker 10: can you long term afford that without either a taxing
42:17
Speaker 10: people more or having a reduced standard living somewhere down
42:20
Speaker 10: the trail.
42:21
Speaker 2: So if you've got if you're a millionaire and you
42:22
Speaker 2: go to the doctor, and let's say you go and
42:24
Speaker 2: see a surgeon, Medicare will only pay you this much.
42:27
Speaker 2: Doesn't matter what your surgeon charges you. That's the amount
42:30
Speaker 2: on your Medicare slip. Doesn't matter who you are, it
42:32
Speaker 2: doesn't matter what, as I said, your surgeon charges. But
42:34
Speaker 2: with Medicare, it's complete, with the nyas, it's all over
42:37
Speaker 2: the shop. It's open ended. They said today they're going
42:40
Speaker 2: to run all the participants back over the rule of
42:42
Speaker 2: you know, back through the system, run the ruler over them.
42:44
Speaker 6: But how much is that going to cost for status?
42:46
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and a talent is it going to take?
42:49
Speaker 10: And how did NDIS get bigger than Medicare in such
42:52
Speaker 10: a short space?
42:52
Speaker 2: The providers this scrutiny, that's right.
42:56
Speaker 6: No, that's right. So that's where they.
42:58
Speaker 2: Should be policing them provided.
43:00
Speaker 10: Because hasn't been a medi an NDIS provider become almost
43:04
Speaker 10: the biggest racket in Australia. If you're not on that
43:08
Speaker 10: then you're missing out. There are people who have literally
43:10
Speaker 10: made millions upon millions of do.
43:12
Speaker 2: I need to look at the electric providers. I need
43:15
Speaker 2: to look at the electorates where the NDIS providers are.
43:19
Speaker 2: And if there's lots of providers in labor electorates, they're
43:22
Speaker 2: not really going to tackle the ruts.
43:24
Speaker 6: Okay.
43:24
Speaker 10: And then then the second part of that, you sit
43:26
Speaker 10: there and say, the providers who have created businesses out
43:30
Speaker 10: of this booming businesses and to be fair to the government,
43:34
Speaker 10: they're now going to try and look at the style
43:37
Speaker 10: of provision and whether there is a racket going on,
43:39
Speaker 10: whether there is really roots happening, and if there are,
43:42
Speaker 10: of course there should be people put before the courts
43:45
Speaker 10: and made examples of so that really you try and
43:47
Speaker 10: stamp I.
43:48
Speaker 2: See the stories, I don't see the conviction.
43:50
Speaker 10: No, not I because quite clearly, as you say, politics
43:53
Speaker 10: will actually play out on.
43:54
Speaker 6: This communities in need.
43:56
Speaker 10: But the fact of the matter is for most Australians
43:58
Speaker 10: it feels like a rut, especially if this project has
44:02
Speaker 10: now got bigger than Medicare in such a short space
44:06
Speaker 10: of time.
44:06
Speaker 2: Okay, So based on what you heard today, can we
44:08
Speaker 2: even order can we even afford all?
44:10
Speaker 10: The answer is no, because the fact is we've got
44:13
Speaker 10: priorities as a nation, not just to indius, which is
44:17
Speaker 10: where you and I differ, because I believe it should
44:20
Speaker 10: be means tested. I think it should be means tested.
44:22
Speaker 10: I think there should be tougher means testing on childcare.
44:25
Speaker 2: Don't means test menycare. We don't meant we don't think
44:29
Speaker 2: we should pat the amount to.
44:30
Speaker 6: Can I say, but I don't think that.
44:32
Speaker 10: Yes, I agree with we don't means test medicare, but
44:36
Speaker 10: that doesn't mean we shouldn't means test other things, including
44:39
Speaker 10: the ndias. There are people who can afford to care
44:42
Speaker 10: for this disabled family members who should pay.
44:47
Speaker 2: Let's let's stop paying childcare to people earning half a million.
44:49
Speaker 6: No, I can't agree with that. That's right.
44:51
Speaker 2: Talked to me about gas because you interviewed someone very
44:55
Speaker 2: interestingly the other day, and I've got the grab talk
44:58
Speaker 2: us into it.
44:59
Speaker 6: So I just want to explain this.
45:00
Speaker 10: So at the show, we have taxation or not. That's
45:02
Speaker 10: the So this is the big issue right now. So
45:05
Speaker 10: as Peedextello, we've just heard said, when you hear the
45:07
Speaker 10: Treasurer say tax reform, what he's actually talking about is
45:11
Speaker 10: tax increases. Now, even this suggestion that we should tax
45:15
Speaker 10: the big gas companies and as people have indicated, and
45:18
Speaker 10: this is.
45:18
Speaker 2: True, we'll tax them more because they do pay tax now.
45:21
Speaker 6: They pay so much tax.
45:23
Speaker 10: And so look, my example is let's say, for example,
45:26
Speaker 10: you've got a laptop computer. You basically get the chance
45:29
Speaker 10: to write that computer off if it's for work.
45:32
Speaker 6: Until you pay your tax. You don't pay tax until
45:34
Speaker 6: you've written that computer off.
45:35
Speaker 10: If you've just spent twenty five billion dollars building a
45:38
Speaker 10: giant gas infrastructure project for Australia, you don't pay tax
45:42
Speaker 10: until it's been written not written down. Now, So get
45:46
Speaker 10: to Mike Worth, who is the global chair and chief
45:49
Speaker 10: executive of one of the world's largest.
45:51
Speaker 6: Energy companies, Chevron.
45:53
Speaker 10: Chevron built the biggest private infrastructure project in Australia, the
45:57
Speaker 10: Gorgan Gas Project, worth by the time it was finished
46:01
Speaker 10: fifty four billion dollars. Now, the fact of the matter
46:05
Speaker 10: is that when I spoke with Mike Worth last year
46:08
Speaker 10: late last year, he said, because of the delays in
46:11
Speaker 10: the approvals, because of the uncertainty of the tax situation
46:16
Speaker 10: in Australia and the fact that governments will come and
46:19
Speaker 10: grab more tax out of gas companies, he will not
46:22
Speaker 10: choose to invest another single dollar in a gas project
46:26
Speaker 10: in Australia.
46:27
Speaker 6: Have listen to this.
46:29
Speaker 11: It's a globally competitive marketplace that we face, others in
46:33
Speaker 11: our industry face, and our capital goes to the areas
46:37
Speaker 11: where we have predictability, where we have certainty, and these
46:40
Speaker 11: investments last for decades and so stability of policy and
46:44
Speaker 11: predictability and continuity of policy are fundamental to the decision process.
46:50
Speaker 2: If you listen to the social media influencers that are
46:52
Speaker 2: out there in that fronting a cent and inquiry this week,
46:55
Speaker 2: the inferences that don't pay any tax in Australia.
46:58
Speaker 10: Well, the reason why because they go to the Tax
47:01
Speaker 10: Office which puts out a list of who pays tax
47:03
Speaker 10: in Australia. Well, the fact is, if you've just bet
47:06
Speaker 10: fifty four billion dollars, you don't pay any tax until
47:09
Speaker 10: you've written off the fifty four billion dollars on the
47:13
Speaker 10: earnings that you've got. Now, to be fair to government,
47:15
Speaker 10: this government, previous governments, they crack down on the roots
47:19
Speaker 10: to allow businesses, including some of the big tech companies,
47:23
Speaker 10: basically taking their money from Australia and then putting the
47:26
Speaker 10: low tax jurisdictions. They made certain they were taxed here
47:28
Speaker 10: and that's really important. That it's important that when these
47:31
Speaker 10: companies suddenly get to the end of that depreciation phase,
47:35
Speaker 10: that they do pay their taxes. And that's what the
47:38
Speaker 10: petroleum resource rent tax is all about. So if we
47:41
Speaker 10: just sit tidy on these gas projects, we're going to
47:43
Speaker 10: get multi billions dollars of taxpayers money in once they've
47:47
Speaker 10: written them off.
47:48
Speaker 6: The real problem.
47:49
Speaker 10: I've got is there's no future projects coming because of
47:53
Speaker 10: the settings and the suggestions that we might tax the more.
47:56
Speaker 10: So they're saying, all right, we'll go to Mexico, we'll
47:59
Speaker 10: get Africa for the future gas developments.
48:02
Speaker 6: We won't go to Australia.
48:04
Speaker 2: I want to run a bit of a campaign you
48:05
Speaker 2: heard from Costello there. The changes to the Future Fund
48:08
Speaker 2: mean the Future Fund can only invest in windmills and
48:11
Speaker 2: solar farms, not on things we need like refineries. And
48:15
Speaker 2: it's a big ticket item. The government's not going to
48:16
Speaker 2: do it. If the Future Fund could, it'll be fantastic
48:19
Speaker 2: with this country. So there's an idea for you.
48:21
Speaker 6: Thanks so much better.
48:22
Speaker 2: All right, quick break, Kel, after the break, welcome back.
48:28
Speaker 2: Let's bring him in, Kel Richards. I want to start
48:31
Speaker 2: with one and I kid my viewers not here, kell
48:35
Speaker 2: I've caught our politicians of all stripes on this one before.
48:39
Speaker 2: They really don't understand the difference between debt and deficit.
48:44
Speaker 12: Okay, that means that which is owed. The word came
48:48
Speaker 12: into English and the thirteen hundreds, can I just mention
48:51
Speaker 12: as a very quicker side it used to be spelt
48:54
Speaker 12: de doublet, which is how we still say the word.
48:57
Speaker 12: And then in the sixteen hundred someone worked out there
48:59
Speaker 12: was a lack word in the background debatah, so a
49:02
Speaker 12: silent silent B was inserted to show that it came
49:05
Speaker 12: from Latin housily. But debt means that which is owed.
49:09
Speaker 12: Deficit means falling short, where income fall short of expenditure.
49:14
Speaker 6: Come into English pardon.
49:15
Speaker 12: Me from French in seventeen eighty four, it's very much
49:19
Speaker 12: like deficiency now. In government spending, the deficit is the
49:23
Speaker 12: annual falling short of government expenditure against government's income against expenditure,
49:29
Speaker 12: whereas the debt is all the borrowings over all the
49:33
Speaker 12: previous years added up. That's the government debt, that's the
49:36
Speaker 12: national debt. Whereas the deficit is each year the level
49:40
Speaker 12: that government income falls short of government expenditure and therefore
49:44
Speaker 12: there are borrowing. So the borrowings in one year are
49:47
Speaker 12: the deficit, and over all the previous years added together
49:51
Speaker 12: still owe. Because money we owe, that's the debt. Now
49:55
Speaker 12: does that make it any helpful at all?
49:58
Speaker 2: I just want to underscore for people at home to
50:00
Speaker 2: you know, governments will crow about being in surplus, that
50:03
Speaker 2: they crow that they're not running a deficit budget. But
50:06
Speaker 2: that just means in that particular year we as a
50:09
Speaker 2: country brought in more revenue than they spent. It doesn't
50:14
Speaker 2: mean that the underlying debt has been dealt with. You
50:17
Speaker 2: can be drowning and debt as we are in Australia
50:19
Speaker 2: a trillion dollars, but you can be running just a
50:22
Speaker 2: little bit behind and spending as opposed to what you're
50:25
Speaker 2: bringing in. Gott to leave it there. I'm sorry, I've
50:28
Speaker 2: been talking all night. We'll give you more time next week.
50:31
Speaker 2: Thank you. Kel all right, that's it for me to
50:33
Speaker 2: see tomorrow night