Latest / Skin Anarchy / Elise Tabin, Former Executive Beauty Editor for NewBeauty Magazine and founding partner Hush&Hush

Transcript

Elise Tabin, Former Executive Beauty Editor for NewBeauty Magazine and founding partner Hush&Hush · Skin Anarchy

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0:34
SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Spring Turn Anarchy.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ekta, and today I have with me the lovely Elise Tabin.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: She is the founding partner for Hush and Hush.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: She was also formerly um the executive beauty dire uh editor at uh New Beauty magazine.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: So welcome, Elise.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited you're here.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited to be here and to talk with you today.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: I'm really looking forward to this.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I, you know, I just I love being able to talk to people like you because you have such a you know unique career journey, and that's really where I want to start is um take us down, you know, memory lane with how you got into beauty to begin with, you know, the industry.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: So I've been obsessed with beauty and writing and magazines for oh god, as long as I can remember.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I remember being a little girl and going with my mom to Publix, the supermarket down here in Florida, and always begging her at the checkout counter to buy me a magazine.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: And the first thing I would do when I get home was tear through it and rip it apart and cut out pictures of lipsticks and make inspiration boards and just study it from A to Z.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: And that really started my passion for all things beauty and um, you know, from a content perspective, the writing angle of it and the creativity.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: And from there, I went to university, uh, I'm sorry, Indiana University, where I studied journalism, majored in journalism.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I just jumped headfirst into the into the pool and had some, you know, internships where I got to do a lot of creative things, scripting and being on air at a very young age, which I thought was like the coolest thing ever.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: And um then I went into PR and marketing for a couple of years, and I always worked on the fashion and beauty side of things.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: And then I had an opportunity to switch from PR and marketing to publishing, and that was really what my ultimate goal was.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, and when I had that opportunity, I jumped on it.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: And one thing after another after another led me to New Beauty.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: And I came in after the very first issue was closed.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: It was a 2008, I think, um at the time in a very small office.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: And over the years, I was there for uh about 13 years.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: I worked my way up from an editorial assistant to the executive beauty editor.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: And I learned so much, met so many wonderful people, just really became immersed in all things aesthetic and beauty at my time there.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: And it was a great learning experience for me.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: And that's what led me to where I ultimately am right now, which is at Hush and Hush, a luxury beauty supplement company.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I started there from day one when there was literally a folding table in a room and a name, and helped to found the company and create a lot of the messaging and marketing and uh product ideas, and just bring the idea of a supplement company to life.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: And that is in a nutshell how I got to where I am.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: That's I mean, that's amazing that you've seen two huge projects from the beginning into this immense success.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's that's really, really impressive.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: It's been fun, it's a lot of work.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna lie.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, you give up a lot when you're starting something from the ground up, but I find it to be so rewarding.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: And there's there's nothing like that compliment when somebody sees either your story or your product or your blog or whatever it might be, and they're just like, I love that.
4:30
SPEAKER_02: And it's really helped me, or I learned so much from it.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: I just I like to give and I like to be able to help women and men throughout this entire journey of as we grow older and become faced with all these different problems that arise with age um and just life in general.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: And so I always feel like if that's what I can do to help somebody and make them feel better themselves, then I'm doing some sort of good in the world.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: I think that's really what beauty, I mean, for me too, I think that's the important part is that making other people feel beautiful.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: I think there's this one plaque I have.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, I've had it forever.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's like I've, you know, it's basically saying I want my life will be like it making everything around me beautiful.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
5:14
SPEAKER_01: So it's like yeah, you just like kind of believe that, I think that it goes a long way.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's much more than just vanity and whatnot.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: I totally agree.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I actually want to go down this road and talk about um, you know, beauty in our, you know, in our 30s and our 40s, um, and how like, you know, we perceive ourselves and what you think the beauty industry is really doing right now in terms of um, you know, like making a place where everybody feels like they fit it.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: You see what I'm saying?
5:43
SPEAKER_01: Like yeah.
5:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there's been a lot of shifts in the industry.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's gone from, you know, one extreme of this is obviously years ago, don't tell anybody what you're doing.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: Everything has to be super secretive, and you don't want to divulge any of your secrets to the opposite end of the spectrum where it's been, you know, pare everything down, go as natural as possible, you as use as many, I mean, as as few products as possible.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, then back to being open and honest about what you're doing, and with the all the social media and the TikToks and Instagram and all that, you know, people showing their their processes and their journeys and being open books about it, which I think is great.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: Um and then again, swinging all the way back to the opposite side of it and saying that beauty is more than just vanity, like you had you had just said, and it's really about how you feel internally, what your what your well-being is, your mental state, you know, it's it's yes, how you look is part of it, but there's so many other facets to it, and how it's really become full circle, and that, you know, everyone's definition of beauty is totally different, but it's not just what somebody looks like.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: It's so much more than that.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: I think that the the energy you give off, what you put out there into the world, how people perceive you, just your overall um attitude and and take on things is really what makes you more beautiful than the way you look.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's just like that's just very on top if you look really good and you've got no lines and wrinkles.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, yeah.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: No, I totally agree.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the thing.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, um, I think when I think about beauty in our in in the 30s, like like, you know, I'm in my mid-30s, and I, you know, when I really look at it now compared to when I was like, I don't know, 18 years old or, you know, in college, like a sophomore in college, like it's a very different way that I approach it.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's not like, oh, I want to buy the the cool makeup and have you know the pretty look when I go out with my friends.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Now it's more of like, well, what makes me feel good?
8:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, like when I wake up in the morning and I have a glow on my face, like what did what caused that to happen?
8:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, was it like, you know, was it the music I listened to right for bed, or was it a skincare product, or you know what I'm saying?
8:19
SPEAKER_01: Like it's like a whole different almost market, I feel like that I'm, you know, I need in terms now compared to before.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's just interesting how we grow in that.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: I agree.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: I think that I think that there's a lot of different facets that play into it.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: And I think that as you get older, just in general terms, anybody, um, you just start to open your eyes to things differently than you had viewed when you were younger in your teenage years as a uh early 20s, you know, young adults, and you just really look at life through a different lens.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: And I know for me personally, some of the things that when I was younger were bothersome to me, I've learned to um adapt to and just say, this is who I am, and that that's how it is.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not going to start changing, you know, certain things about my appearance because I'm 42 years old and I I've lived with it this long, you know.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: So if it's something that can be quickly fixed, then that's great.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: But to sit there and try and figure out, like, oh, well, is this what's really bothering me?
9:32
SPEAKER_02: Or just say, you know what, it is what it is.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: So what?
9:35
SPEAKER_02: I got a little bump on my nose.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: Okay, if I can inject it with some filler and be done with it, big deal.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: But I don't need to get hung up on some of the things that I think I used to get hung up on when I was younger.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: And I try and teach that to my daughter.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: I have a 12-year-old daughter, and I try and teach that to her all the time.
9:50
SPEAKER_02: I say to her, you know what, this is not the end all be all.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, you're 12, I know you think it is, but I promise you, like you're going to, you're going to grow into yourself and your body, and you're gonna you're gonna love yourself more and more as you get older because you are you.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: And that's what I always try and tell people.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have so many friends that come to me and they're always saying, What should I do about this?
10:15
SPEAKER_02: What should I do about that?
10:16
SPEAKER_02: I said, You don't need to do it.
10:17
SPEAKER_02: If you if you want to do it because it's gonna make you feel better, then I'm all for that.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: But don't do that because everybody else around you is doing it.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: Do it because you truly want to do it, or don't do it because your husband's telling you, oh, you'd look better with bigger lips.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, no, you do things that you want to do.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: And also as you get older, there's things that you you look at it at 40 or 45 and you say, Oh my God, I when I was 20, I never would have considered doing something like that.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: Or I never would have thought that I needed to use these types of products or have these types of treatments done.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: But I think as long as everything is is done in perspective and for the right reasons and you look at it um objectively, yeah, then that's what's I guess learning about beauty as as you get older.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I know, and I completely agree because you know, I think it's it's interesting um when we talk about like the you know, the vanity side of it, you know, like I don't know, maybe getting a procedure done, like you know, you were talking about, or getting like, you know, some sort of consultation, or you know, there's a lot of there's this like not a stigma, but there's a lot of emotions around all of that.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
11:25
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like the people have this duality where it's like, well, I don't feel like I should have to do anything to change my appearance, but at the same time, it's like they're trying to make a reason for why they should do it because at the end of the end of the day, that's what they want.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: And my I think my take on it is just when you really learn to accept yourself, you you know, you'll wake up and you'll you'll feel like, no, I, you know, I don't have to do anything, you know.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: It's just that it's that, you know what, I would love to actually go to a med spa and you know, have this experience or whatever.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
11:58
SPEAKER_01: It's just the reasoning for what you do, for why you do what you do is gonna be completely different, you know, like absolutely.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: It's funny you say that because there's a doctor, a plastic surgeon out in Detroit, Dr.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: Anthony Yoon, who is hysterical on his social media.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, he just takes all these topics that we're talking about and he puts them into like real life perspective and makes makes light out of some of them that they aren't so serious and heavy.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: And I think he does a great job.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: But, anyways, he put up something the other day about um would you allow your teenage daughter under the age of 18 to have plastic surgery?
12:38
SPEAKER_02: And and he asked this question.
12:40
SPEAKER_02: And I thought it was a great question because, like you're saying, like you have to do something for what you want, you know, and you have to look at it as like, how does it, how does it benefit me as opposed to I'm doing this because, you know, this is what everybody else is doing, or I don't want to be associated with this type of um feature or whatever it is.
13:03
SPEAKER_02: But you know, you've got to really think about it.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: And I always go back to the expression, you do you, but you have to do you in the right way.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a time and a place, yeah, and that's where I think it really becomes um important to be smart about what you're doing, no matter what age you are, you know, 18, 48, 68, whatever it is, like you've gotta, you've gotta really take into perspective what it is, what the situation is, and and what's the best route for you.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: And I think that one of the big things, you know, especially with that question, um, you know, it makes me think of other things as well.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be plastic surgery, it could be something like birth control, it could be something like, yeah, you know, there could be there's so many different medical things that I think people are very confused, like what's the right age where you start doing this?
13:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, like for example, Botox.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie to you, growing up as a millennial, I always thought Botox was for the Beverly Hills girls.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
13:58
SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't really, I didn't bel, you know, I didn't grow up, you know, with in my mind thinking Botox is ever an option, not because I looked down on it, but because I just didn't grow up around it.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: And the people I would see on TV were just people I, you know, I wasn't like, you know, I guess associating or like, you know, relating to them.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: So it's a very personal thing.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: But now I look at it and I'm looking at it from a medical perspective, and I'm like, you know what?
14:23
SPEAKER_01: If I were to get something done on my face, it would be Botox, hands down, because I know the medical, you know what I mean?
14:28
SPEAKER_01: I know the medical benefits of it.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: I understand it on a whole different level.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, our level of consciousness and you know, understanding grows immensely between just our, you know, second decade of life and third decade of life.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
14:41
SPEAKER_01: So when you have a teenager that's 18 years old saying, Mom, I want plastic surgery.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: For me, I feel like the answer there as a parent would should it should be, well, I need you to tell me realistically why you want plastic surgery.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
14:56
SPEAKER_01: Like sit your kids down and understand like what is it that led her to ask.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
15:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't, I, I, I really doubt that an 18-year-old is gonna sit here and have this kind of conversation that you and I are discussing.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, it's probably gonna be like, well, because you know, so and so just had it and I want it too, as opposed to like a real deep conversation about what it is.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: But I also think that, you know, a lot of these younger girls that are under 18 that are doing things like that, your body changes.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, don't don't jump at the first opportunity that comes along when you're when you're not even ready for it yet.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, so many things change as you get older.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:42
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, sometimes it's sometimes it's a matter of just letting your your your face or your body or whatever it is age or just doing the research to see like maybe this isn't really right for me.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, like you were saying, the birth control, maybe for some person it might not be the right option and they might find something else, a different type of birth control that works for them.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: Maybe the pill is not the best option, you know.
16:04
SPEAKER_02: So I think that that's where there's still so much room for education, you know.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: You you you see all these things out there, and it's a lot of people just go by whatever the brand's name is, so to speak, of it.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: But when they really dive into it and they say, Okay, well, I don't really know the difference between Botox and Disport and ZMN.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: And I don't let me figure out which one's right for me.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you know what?
16:30
SPEAKER_02: That's not really what I need.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: I need something else, or right, you know.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: So there's so much when you start scratching the surface that you you learn about, and um I'm actually fascinated by it.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: That's that's one thing, at least I'm really glad is happening right now, is that all the dermatologists that have been coming up on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, like I am so happy that they are there because now I mean I did not know about any of the stuff that kids know now.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Like there was no information.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: And the fact that they're out here and they're they're really promoting, like, you know, good practices for skin health, good practices for, you know, germological care, like that is very important.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually want to ask you from your editorial um experience side of things, um, how you think uh brands have changed in terms of how they're um presenting themselves to the consumers.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Like I know it's a very big question.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: Very big question.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: It's an umbrella question, but I really want to know um what you think.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that there's a lot of brands out there that are doing a fabulous job and doing it the right way.
17:34
SPEAKER_02: And then I think there's some that are um not paying attention to what's going on, both in the industry and just in the world, and are kind of in the siloed, you know, tunnel of just um, I'm a beauty brand and I've got something to sell and that's it.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: But when we go back to that whole idea of beauty being holistic and having so many different facets, I think that the brands that are really taking a look at inclusivity and um sustainability and just being conscious of what needs to be in a product, what doesn't need to be in a product.
18:17
SPEAKER_02: Like, don't call yourself clean if you know that you've got seven synthetic ingredients in there, you know, like be who you are, be what you're trying to do, but try and do something that's like right by, you know, your consumers.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: Because um, I feel like there's a lot of greenwashing out there, and you know, there's a lot of really, really smart educated consumers, and then there's there's some that just don't do their homework.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: And I can't fault them because it is such a clouded market.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, every day there's something else that comes out.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: There's a new, there's a new cream for this, there's a new, you know, zit zapper, there, there's always something new.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: And it's it's hard.
19:00
SPEAKER_02: It's hard to differentiate yourself.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think it really goes back to your brand pillars.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: If you truly believe in certain things and you put it out there as part of your brand identity and you carry it through, no matter what, then you're being honest to yourself.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that comes across to consumers.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think also it's, you know, it you've got the heritage brands that have been around for a hundred years.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: You've got these indie brands that are brand new and just putting themselves out there.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: So I think when you're when you're new and you're launching in a world that we live in like today, that's socially media driven and everything's digital and all these touch points versus a brand that's been around for you know close to a hundred years, it's probably a harder pivot for a a um a heritage brand because you know, some of this stuff didn't exist when they launched 50, 60, 70 years ago.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, I completely agree.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: I I think that, you know, here's the thing, like I have a hard time um understanding from the editorial side, like, you know, when is it that we have some a brand that is really doing something new enough to where you're going to publish, you know, information about them.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Because I see a lot of duplication in this market.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie to you, you know, you know, for everyone out there, like I'm a very blunt person, so I'm just gonna be blunt.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: I think it's BS.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: There's like 15 different eye creams that are exactly the same, and like 10 of them are founded by white women, and it's like every single one of them has been featured in a major beauty publication.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Like that's what I see, and I have I don't understand that.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I'm like, where on the editorial side is there this like filter of well, is this is unique because of this?
20:48
SPEAKER_01: And you know what I'm saying?
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Not just editors, but even the consumers.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: Like, I I want to know like where that feedback is of what makes it different.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: And the reason I'm even bringing this up, I know this is a very charged topic in a way, but like I'm bringing this up because the other day I was interviewing a founder of a skincare line.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a black-owned line.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, he's you know, it's really like a gender neutral line.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: And I was having this conversation with him about how he basically approached um a retailer and they asked him, Well, what makes your brand different from the next black-owned brand?
21:19
SPEAKER_01: And I sat there and it was so triggering for me, at least, because I was like, What the hell do you mean?
21:25
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, why are we focusing on that demographic aspect?
21:29
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
21:29
SPEAKER_01: From that from that, like, why are we not focusing on the product, what it's doing?
21:34
SPEAKER_01: Is it better than you know, X, Y, Z already on the shelves?
21:38
SPEAKER_01: And you know, why why can't we do that more?
21:40
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I get confused.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, uh, you know, as an editor, do you have any like insight into that, that problem?
21:45
SPEAKER_02: Or is it just Yeah, I think there's there's a lot, I think there's a lot of politics that have come into play where it used to be a product is either good or is bad.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: And if it was bad, it just never got any type of publicity.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: Like if it just didn't work.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: Um and then Everything that was good and actually worked and had a cool story behind it or a unique spin got publicity.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: But I think that there's so many um political, you know, in within the industry, beauty industry, publishing industry that come into play, there's a big factor with pay for play.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: Um you know, a lot of brands get coverage because they support a publication.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna lie, it's the truth.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: And that that that's a huge um jumping off point for this whole conversation.
22:31
SPEAKER_02: Because when you see something over and over and over again, and like you're saying, it's nothing out of the ordinary, it's just a straight up eye cream or another plain shampoo, and it has no story, and it becomes, you know, the next new thing or whatever it is, it's a lot of times it does have that um that component to it.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, it could be that they have bought their way in, that they've got a really kick-ass publicist, um, you know, that they're just focusing so much on PR too.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, don't get me wrong, public side, I give I give those people a lot of experience.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: It's a hard job.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: That's a hard job, it's a hard job.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, and I I know like I have such respect for some some posts that I know, I just, oh my gosh, amazing, amazing people slash women, you know, especially.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: Um for real though, though you just said about the you know, the buying-in part, I get it.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: And I know that that's been going on, and I just, you know, it's like that's what makes me so mad is like, you know, when we talk about things like inclusivity, diversity, all those words that you and I were discussing earlier.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting here thinking, I'm like, well, there's this giant freaking wall right here, you know what I mean, in the way that everybody knows about, and there's only a few of us having this conversation.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, when I used to write editorial, I mean, when I would decide how I was going to go about covering uh a trend or something that was up and coming, I would try and do as much re as much research as possible.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: And when I couldn't find anything, then I said, I'm on to something, you know?
24:07
SPEAKER_02: So when I when I found out about a new ingredient, and even if there was one product, two products that had it, and I couldn't find any other articles on it, I couldn't find any journal papers on it, and I couldn't find anything that really made sense.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, but obviously this is something that's cool, it's got a story, there's something to be told.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: That's when I that's when I would say this is something that's gonna going to be big.
24:31
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times, and that's one of the things New Beauty has a great reputation for was covering um a lot of news before it became really trendy.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, we really did a really, really good job of the investigative side of things.
24:48
SPEAKER_02: But you know, I would spend a lot of time with brand founders and talking to their cosmetic chemists or RDs or dermatologists and trying to unearth the story and see hey, is this just another person that's putting out a milky cleanser because milky cleansers are, you know, what's selling?
25:07
SPEAKER_02: Or is there something really unique about this brand?
25:11
SPEAKER_02: Is there something really different about the way that they are harvesting the ingredients?
25:16
SPEAKER_02: Is this something that sounds like it's going to be the next big thing and nobody really knows about it?
25:23
SPEAKER_02: And so that's my duty as a journalist is to bring that information forward and to tell the readers and and the beauty community out there that this is what's going on, this is what's happening, um, you know, and really expose things.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: So I think that it's it's hard to have every outlet out there follow those principles because every magazine and every outlet and and and platform stands for something different.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's what you know makes the world tick, obviously.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I still always go back to that philosophy of what is it that makes it different?
26:01
SPEAKER_02: Why is this story unique than somebody else's no, regardless of of race or you know, what the category is.
26:09
SPEAKER_02: Demographic or whatever.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Totally, 100%.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: I I completely agree.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: And that's honestly, you're the one person I think I could ask this question so candidly to.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: So seriously, thank you for being so open-minded about because you know, because people get very, very, you know, they get touchy.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: And I and I don't think it's a touchy topic, it's just reality.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: And you know, everything that you're saying is reality.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think it in the beauty space, you know, at least honestly, I'm gonna tell you, beauty for me has always been like a retreat.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: And I I know a lot of you know, a million girls and women can say the same thing, you know, but it's been a retreat, and I would I feel like it's the one place I look at it as art, you know what I mean?
26:49
SPEAKER_01: Like how it's it's an expression, it's a place for self-expression and acceptance and a journey that we all go through.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like everyone has a voice in the we should you we should you know understand that and make it a little bit more like diverse in the sense that if you know you've you've written an article about so-and-so's eye cream or so-and-so's like mask or something, you know what I mean?
27:11
SPEAKER_01: Why don't you like like make sure that your next few articles are about something completely different?
27:16
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, like make like take it up, each person take it upon yourself to make sure that you're doing something different every time.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you have to spread the love, you know, you can't be so pigeonholed into just one category.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: And also, I think that there's um not necessarily, you know, a big enough spotlight on the brands that are really trying to break into some of these untapped um markets, these white spaces that they see.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like instead of being looked at as like the redheaded stepchild because you're doing something new, yeah, look at it like wow, they've they've looked, they've actually found something that's totally different and something that's unique.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: And I give them credit, you know.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: I give I give brands credit for going into those uncharted territories and being the first one because sometimes when you're the first one, you don't always get the recognition that you deserve.
28:15
SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes it's the third brand that comes out with it that all of a sudden is the one that explodes.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: But I always feel like the one that takes the step and puts themselves out there and says, I'm gonna do something totally different.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: You know, I've got this ingredient, I'm gonna encapsulate in a way that nobody's used before because it does this, that, and the other.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: Or I'm gonna create a brand that is totally different and it's gonna touch on different aspects of how we age or different aspects of hair health or whatever it might be.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: Right.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: That's where I think that the credit needs to be given where credit's deserved.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: I completely, completely agree with you.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: And I love that you think like that.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: I I think, you know, I've especially now, I think it's changing.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been very, very blessed and lucky to have interviewed so many of so many phenomenal, you know, editors and and writers.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I I'm really hopeful because it is changing, and we're definitely seeing more, you know, obviously like this is a skincare podcast.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's a lot more tech being involved in skincare, which I love, you know, the science, but I think it's definitely a work in progress, you know what I mean?
29:21
SPEAKER_01: Like we have a long way to go, but there's some, you know, some people out there are doing amazing work, and you know, I really salute those who are, so you know, I agree.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: Forward, but um, you know, I want to I want to shift a little bit because I want to talk about like I know you recently posted um about by the way, you looked amazing in your post.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: I you recently posted yeah, and and I I want to talk about body image and all of that, and as we grow as women, like right now, you know, is there any message that you can give for all the women listening out there that might be you know coming into themselves, especially I know 20s, and you know, it's a hard time, right?
29:56
SPEAKER_01: But I loved your post because it was very strong and it was very I I loved it.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: It was I loved everything about it.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: So community give us some nuggets of wisdom.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that well to back up for a second, that that post.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: Um I I wrote the caption and put it into because I use like a planning app for Instagram just to make my life a little bit easier.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: But I I rescheduled and unscheduled and then scheduled that post.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: I think I counted 27 different times before I just bit the bullet and said, whatever, I'm just gonna do this.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, I I I'm not that person.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm very open and I will tell you everything about what I do, what I use, all of that.
30:39
SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to like body image, I mean I'm still a woman.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: I have stretch marks, I have you know, fatty areas, and I I work really hard, and I finally got the courage and I said, you know what?
30:53
SPEAKER_02: I'm 42 years old, and this is this is what I look like.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm proud of it.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't have a six-pack abs and I don't have you know everything perfect, but girl, please, you look amazing.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: You've got but I work hard at it.
31:11
SPEAKER_02: I work really, really hard at it.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: So I guess my message is that you can't discount yourself, you can't beat yourself up over it.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: Nobody's perfect.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: There is no such thing as perfect.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: Embrace who you are, love yourself for who you are.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, be honest with yourself.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: It's okay to say, yeah, I look really good today and not be cocky about it.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: And it's okay to say, okay, I put on a couple extra pounds, but I know why, because I've been eating chocolate for every single meal for the last three weeks.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: You know, so I think it's all about um just owning who you are.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: And it's really funny that you say that because I got a text message from my daughter today.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: She's she's with my ex-husband, and she was saying how she wants to get us have a six-pack and she wants to put on 10 pounds of muscle by the end of the summer.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: And she's 12 and she's she's 60 pounds.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
32:04
SPEAKER_02: So I tried to tell her gently that that 10 pounds of muscle that would that's a lovely idea, but that your body is not equipped for that right now.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: And I don't want you having this mindset of that's what I need to do, because you're comparing yourself to a friend that's a gymnast who has a totally different body and is working herself in a different way than than you are, and trying to set up the reality of what is a healthy expectation versus what is not.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: Because well, I think kids now are different, so different than when I was growing up too, because you know, obviously, like hormonal changes that have been very different for the newer generation of children.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, there's like growth hormone that's been in food, that you know what I mean.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of things that play into the environment.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: And it's like I think, you know, when I was growing up, it was a much more like in your face, like you better look like this bikini model, or you're not, you know what I mean?
32:58
SPEAKER_01: Like you're not cool or you're not gonna be accepted.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: But now I feel like, you know, and it really goes back to what we're talking about, like good editors, good writers, like putting real people out there, like this is what humanity looks like, right?
33:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, like don't be exactly like don't don't be mean to yourself because every human looks different, and you know, yeah.
33:15
SPEAKER_02: And you can you can't beat yourself up because we're all genetically programmed differently, you know.
33:20
SPEAKER_02: Like my genes are different from yours, and my daughter has different genes than than me.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yes, she's my daughter, but still, you know, it's not the same exact sequence, and that's why I said to her, you you can you can try and do what you you want, but at the same time, don't try and make yourself be somebody else, you know, accept yourself for who you are.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: And if you want to look, you want to cut out some of the sugar because she eats a ton of crap.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: That's that that's one step in the right direction.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: But at 12 years old, no way are you gonna be beating yourself up saying that you've got to go into the gym every single day for an hour because you want abs by the summer.
34:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, I just I won't let her do that because that's just not the the mentality that I think any girl, no matter what your age is, you know, it it should be.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: I think you just have to be healthy.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, you have to you have to follow healthy habits, you have to eat healthy, but obviously everything in moderation.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: And you you just have to realize like this is who I am, and I have to accept it and love it.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: And what I can improve, I can, and what I can't, you know, like I'm gonna learn to live with, and it's gonna be okay.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be okay.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's truly what body body positivity is.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know there's been a lot of movements and a lot of wonderful work has been done towards this, you know, initiative to promote it.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: But I think truly what it comes down to is that self-love aspect and like self-care.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, if you can really nail that down, I think the body positivity comes with it, you know.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: And it's like it's like I've had days where I'm like, I haven't lost a single pound, but I look in the mirror and I and I like what I saw than from the day before.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: Why?
35:10
SPEAKER_01: Because the night before I probably meditated more, I probably spent more time journaling or writing about something, you know.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: It's just it just varies based on how much love you give yourself, you know, it really does.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: And I and I also think that when you're happy, yeah, it's almost like a lot of that just you don't focus on all the things that we we all tend to nitpick on.
35:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, when you're when you're happy and you're like everything's going great, I'm I'm happy in my job, I'm happy in my life, I'm happy in my uh relationships, you know, my home life, whatever it might be, there's less time to focus on the negative and the minutia.
35:46
SPEAKER_02: But I totally feel like when you're unhappy, then it's like you just pick everything apart.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: So I completely look at the positive and just say, you know what, I've got everything pretty good in my life.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it yes, is it work?
36:02
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, but that's also because my body has changed over the years.
36:06
SPEAKER_02: Um but when I feel when I feel good, I look good, and when I look good, I feel good.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's pretty much everybody's you know, outlook on things is just to feel feel your best, feel comfortable in your own skin, and you know, own own what you love about yourself.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:24
SPEAKER_02: If you've got great legs, want it.
36:26
SPEAKER_02: Like there's there's no shame in that, you know.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: If you've got you've got great arms, then rock the sleeveless turtlenecks as much as you can, you know.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: Right, do things that are actually going to boost you up at the end of the day, you know.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: And and I think like, you know, uh it's so it's so weird because we're still, I think, as women, um, especially, we're still struggling with this balance between, you know, eat being really pretty or being really smart.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a transition that's still happening, you know.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Like I know when I was in school, I was a total book nerd.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
36:59
SPEAKER_01: I still am, I'm not gonna lie.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: But like, you know, it was like as if it was a division, you know, it was like the division between like you what you focused on.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: But I think now um I see a lot more youth is, you know, they're more educated and they're focused more on like a balance between the two, which I think is important, you know, the balancing act, it had to come into the picture.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: And I think nowadays it's really being promoted.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: And I love seeing that in like mainstream media.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's important.
37:27
SPEAKER_02: And I think that I agree with you.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: I think that that's it can be had, you know, you don't have to be one or the other.
37:33
SPEAKER_02: And I love that there's really powerful women out there, beauty industry or other industries, that you look at them and you're like, they're smart and they've got it all together and they're doing good, and you know, they they just seem to have so much going for them because, like you said, you don't have to be one or the other.
37:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that that world is starting to fade away.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, thank God.
38:01
SPEAKER_02: And you know, you can you you you can be successful and attractive and put together and well dressed.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: It's not like you have to pick in life like which direction you want to go in.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: Um you just also have to believe it yourself, you know.
38:19
SPEAKER_02: Like I I am all these things, and that's okay.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, at least I have to ask you because I have to ask um all of my favorite guests about your favorite skincare products right now that you're using.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: Do you have some favorites?
38:34
SPEAKER_02: That's that's I mean, that that's such a hard question for me to answer, but I will answer it based off of what I've been using for the last month because I always like to give something a month um in order for me to really see the results and see how it's working.
38:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I have been using right now the Holy Frog cleansers.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: My friend Emmy made them from Emmy Parr.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: She made them, and they're great.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, like my skin feels so clean with them.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: I absolutely love it.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: So that's a big check in my list right now.
39:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, I actually just bought the other day some more Environ.
39:17
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you're familiar with that line.
39:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh, not really, no.
39:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a great line.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: It's more, I guess, um professional grade.
39:26
SPEAKER_02: And they have a really great vitamin A derived um serum and cream that I've been using for about the past year and a half to help with some discoloration.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
39:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm a huge, huge fan of Retin A.
39:39
SPEAKER_02: I mean, like that and sunscreen are my two go-tos.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: And I get people asking me all the time, what should I do?
39:45
SPEAKER_02: I'm turning 40.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: I need something new.
39:47
SPEAKER_02: My skin looks dull.
39:48
SPEAKER_02: And those are the first two things I always say.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: I said, if you're not using sunscreen, I don't know if we can be friends.
39:53
SPEAKER_02: And if you're not using retin A or retinol, you need to get on some type of retinol retinoid.
40:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that I use, I mean, I always go for like the prescription classic retin A.
40:06
SPEAKER_02: And for sunscreen, I'm I'm I'm a I'm a diehard supergoop fan.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's to me, it's such an amazing line.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
40:16
SPEAKER_02: It's amazing and it never makes me break out.
40:18
SPEAKER_02: And I'm oily, acneic skin type, and I've used a lot of great, a lot of sunscreens that I thought were great and may have prevented me from getting sun damage, but then I wake up, you know, three weeks later after using it, and I'm like, I've got breakouts everywhere.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: I know that's a huge one on sunscreen, actually.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: You're right.
40:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sunscreen, sunscreen's a tough one.
40:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, and what else have I been using recently?
40:42
SPEAKER_02: I've been testing out a new line from a woman.
40:47
SPEAKER_02: It's a very, very small.
40:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's definitely indie, maybe whatever is like smaller than indie.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: Um she's a Harvard Trains um chemist, and she has this line that a friend of mine told me about.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: It's called Arboretum.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: So I've been using that.
41:04
SPEAKER_02: And so far, so good.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it smelled really nice.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: I always like things that that smell like they should smell.
41:10
SPEAKER_02: If they're supposed to smell botanical because they have botanical extracts in it, then like don't try and cover it up, you know, or if it's supposed to smell medicinal, let it smell medicinal.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: But I like her, I like her products so far.
41:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, there was a blue mask that I used, and then um a toner that I've been using.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: Oh, and then there's this other, this is others, oh, it's so good.
41:32
SPEAKER_02: I have to actually run into my bathroom right now to tell you the exact name because I always forget it.
41:36
SPEAKER_02: I bought it from Knockout Beauty out in LA, and it's this niacinamide toner that's a spray that is amazing.
41:47
SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
41:49
SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
41:50
SPEAKER_02: It's got um so many great things in it, and it helps with like redness and inflammation and acne.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna send you a picture of it afterwards so you can see.
42:01
SPEAKER_02: It's called Perfect B3.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm gonna take a picture and send it to you.
42:06
SPEAKER_02: That is phenomenal.
42:07
SPEAKER_02: Now that I'm in the cabinet, let me see what else I got in here that I use all the time.
42:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love the Mario Bodesto um drying lotion for when I had like a really, really bad breakout.
42:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that too.
42:23
SPEAKER_02: And what else am I using that's in here that I can see?
42:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh, my friend Kendra from Alpin Beauty.
42:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she has the most amazing eye balm.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: That is always, I always have that.
42:37
SPEAKER_02: I buy that like regularly.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: She has the most amazing serum too.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
42:41
SPEAKER_02: The serums are great, absolutely great.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: And I also just started using a couple weeks ago a new line from Dr.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: Julius Phew, a plastic surgeon out in Chicago.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: He's like a freaking genius.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: And I've known him for years.
42:55
SPEAKER_02: He came out with a line called a fiore, and he's got this facial oil that is so, so hydrating, but it's not um for clog clogging.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: It's it's phenomenal.
43:07
SPEAKER_02: I absolutely love that too.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: And I put every night on my lips the Sarah Hap um lip mask because I tend to get dry at night.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: So I really, really like that.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I've got gobs and gobs of stuff, but I think those are like my big, big ones that I use almost probably every day for the last month.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
43:31
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
43:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we I could spend a whole nother hour just talking to you just about what you're doing.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, don't you give me sorry?
43:36
SPEAKER_01: If I opened my bathroom closet, it would be like literally like I wouldn't even know what to say.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: If someone asked me this question, I'd be like, I don't know.
43:43
SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a hard one.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: It's definitely a hard one, but yeah, that's what I'm into at the moment.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: I love that you share that with us and all of the I I recognized a lot of the stuff that you were saying, the the brands, and I can definitely agree.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, Alpine Beauty is definitely one of the best lines I think I've ever seen.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, especially Clean Beauty, like, you know, Kendra's serum is like I I told Kendra I was like, I use it as a primer.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, I no joke, like I suspect my primer under my foundation.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: It's so, so good.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: So, but yeah, it's great.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh, and one more thing before I forget, this also it's I have an older version called Sysyamine, but this is Sispera, it's a professional grade um anti-discoloration and hyperpigmentation cream that it's actually I I posted something on my Instagram about it um a couple weeks ago.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: You I've used it for a long time.
44:37
SPEAKER_02: You put it on over your dirty skin.
44:39
SPEAKER_02: So over makeup, don't wash your face.
44:41
SPEAKER_02: And if you use it once a week for about, I think it's like 15 minutes or so, it really helps with this coloration.
44:48
SPEAKER_02: So it's great for somebody who doesn't want to use hydroquinone, but has yeah, but has the pigment and they need you know some something a little bit stronger.
44:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, that's a great, great, great option too.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: Wait, can you shout out the name again?
45:02
SPEAKER_02: The yeah, it's it's called Sispera C Y S P E R A.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm gonna have to check them out.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: It's great.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Elise.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: This was awesome.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: I've been talking for for days.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: Um this was such a fun conversation, and I'm so glad that you are so open to talking about some real stuff.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for that.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: And everyone out there, if you have any questions for Elise, please leave them in our um podcast art on Instagram.
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45:48
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for tuning in, and I will be back next time.
45:59
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