Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 265. Katie Schide, Pro Trail Runner & Endurance Athlete

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265. Katie Schide, Pro Trail Runner & Endurance Athlete · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just had this passion for being outside, being
0:02
Speaker 1: in the mountains, and it in my academic life it
0:05
Speaker 1: took me to geology, and in my athletic life, it
0:08
Speaker 1: took me to trail running.
0:23
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily a body here.
0:25
Speaker 3: You are listening to episode two hundred and sixty five
0:28
Speaker 3: of Hurdle a While, this.
0:30
Speaker 2: Focused podcast where I connect with everyone from your favorite.
0:32
Speaker 3: Athletes to top experts and industry CEOs about their highest highs,
0:36
Speaker 3: toughest moments, and everything in between. We all go through
0:40
Speaker 3: hurdles in life, and my goal through these discussions is
0:43
Speaker 3: to empower you to better navigate yours and move with
0:46
Speaker 3: intention so that you can stride towards your own big
0:49
Speaker 3: potential and of course have some fun along the way. Now,
0:55
Speaker 3: if you listened to five Minute Friday last week, then
0:58
Speaker 3: you know that I am clearly both back and better.
1:02
Speaker 2: The voice is better.
1:03
Speaker 3: I am back in Brooklyn after the most amazing week
1:07
Speaker 3: at Ultra Trail de mont Blanc in Shamanie, France, and
1:13
Speaker 3: it is very special that I'm bringing you today's guest
1:17
Speaker 3: because she came in second place at the race's occ
1:23
Speaker 3: event last week, which is a fifty k trail race
1:28
Speaker 3: for episode two hundred and sixty five, I am chatting
1:32
Speaker 3: with ultra runner Katie Shide. Originally from Maine, the thirty
1:36
Speaker 3: one year old now lives in France with her partners
1:38
Speaker 3: Germain Granger. Note that she says his name a whole
1:41
Speaker 3: lot differently than I am capable, and he is also
1:46
Speaker 3: an ultra runner. In today's episode, she talks to me
1:49
Speaker 3: about what it's like to live and work with her
1:51
Speaker 3: partner abroad and how the duo decides who does what
1:55
Speaker 3: race and when. Plus she talks about her background, originally
1:58
Speaker 3: moving to Zurich, Switzerland and to get her PhD in geology,
2:02
Speaker 3: and how she first learned that trail running was actually
2:06
Speaker 3: a sport. She also offers up some tips and tricks
2:09
Speaker 3: for anyone that wants to get in on trail running themselves.
2:13
Speaker 3: I am so happy that we had the time to
2:15
Speaker 3: make this happen. We actually recorded this shortly before I
2:18
Speaker 3: headed over to Shamani. And of note, her performance coming
2:23
Speaker 3: in second at the occ the event that is the
2:25
Speaker 3: fifty K as a part of this UTMB World series
2:29
Speaker 3: is impressive on its own, but it comes shortly after
2:33
Speaker 3: her second place finish at the Western States one hundred
2:36
Speaker 3: which she completed and under the course record time, finishing
2:40
Speaker 3: just behind Courtney to Walter. Now, if you don't know
2:42
Speaker 3: Courtney de Walter, another huge name in the ultra space.
2:47
Speaker 2: She has been on the show before.
2:48
Speaker 3: I am going to link her episode in the show
2:51
Speaker 3: notes as well. Make sure you're following along with Hurdle
2:54
Speaker 3: over on social It's at Hurdle podcast. I am over
2:57
Speaker 3: at Emily a Body and subscribe to the weekly Hear
3:00
Speaker 3: newsletter while you're at it. The link to do that
3:02
Speaker 3: is in the show notes. With that, let's get to hurdling.
3:11
Speaker 2: Today.
3:12
Speaker 3: I am sitting down with Katie Shaijee's an endurance athlete
3:16
Speaker 3: for the North Face.
3:17
Speaker 2: How are you doing today?
3:19
Speaker 1: I'm good on the other side of the world. But
3:21
Speaker 1: how are you doing?
3:22
Speaker 3: I'm good, I'm soon to be on the other side
3:24
Speaker 3: of the world with you. Give the hurdlers, which is
3:27
Speaker 3: what I call my audience, a little bit of intel
3:29
Speaker 3: on why you're on the other side of the world.
3:31
Speaker 1: Katie, Well, I actually live in France, so this is
3:36
Speaker 1: my home, but I'm currently a little bit away from
3:39
Speaker 1: home because I'm in the Cheminee Valley. I normally live
3:43
Speaker 1: in the south of France, closer to Nice really the
3:46
Speaker 1: southern extent of the Alps. It's called the Mercantur National Park.
3:51
Speaker 1: But yeah, now I'm in Chemny Valley because we have
3:54
Speaker 1: the big UTMB race week coming up this week.
3:58
Speaker 3: For those that don't know what UTMB is, do you
4:02
Speaker 3: want to explain it for them?
4:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I forget because I'm only around trail runners
4:08
Speaker 1: all the time. I forget most of the world doesn't
4:11
Speaker 1: know what this thing is. Yeah. So the UTMB is
4:14
Speaker 1: the Ultratrail Dumont Blanc, and the most famous of the
4:18
Speaker 1: races during this event is the Ultra Trail du mont Blanc,
4:21
Speaker 1: which is one hundred and seventy two kilometers, so just
4:25
Speaker 1: over one hundred miles with ten thousand meters of vertical climbing,
4:30
Speaker 1: which I guess would be something like thirty thousand feet
4:33
Speaker 1: of climbing. And it's an ultra trail race that traversus
4:38
Speaker 1: three countries, France, Italy and Switzerland and passes through at
4:43
Speaker 1: least one night if you're a little bit slower, maybe
4:46
Speaker 1: two nights. And yes, this year will be its twentieth
4:49
Speaker 1: anniversary and it's probably the It's kind of like the
4:53
Speaker 1: World Championships of ultratrail running. We do have another race
4:57
Speaker 1: in trail running that's called the World Championships, but more
5:00
Speaker 1: or less serves as the unofficial World Championship.
5:03
Speaker 2: Which you casually won last year.
5:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't describe it as casual. It's quite a long,
5:12
Speaker 1: a long day, but yes, I was fortunate enough to
5:15
Speaker 1: put it all together last year.
5:18
Speaker 2: Wow, humble to say the least. We're going to get
5:20
Speaker 2: to that.
5:21
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about that experience for you, but
5:23
Speaker 3: living in the south of France before we do, you
5:27
Speaker 3: are a ways away from where you grew up. Talk
5:32
Speaker 3: to me about your beginnings, Katie.
5:35
Speaker 1: Yes, you can tell I'm American, but I'm originally from Maine,
5:40
Speaker 1: And yeah, I grew up like a normal American kid.
5:45
Speaker 1: I guess I played a lot of sports as a kid.
5:47
Speaker 1: I grew up in a really small town and yeah,
5:51
Speaker 1: really nothing super crazy to say about my childhood. I
5:55
Speaker 1: had really supportive parents who just kind of let me
5:58
Speaker 1: do anything that I I wanted without questioning it, which
6:02
Speaker 1: I think just gave me the opportunity to explore anything.
6:06
Speaker 1: And there was a lot of things I explored as
6:09
Speaker 1: a kid that I don't do anymore. But I'm really
6:12
Speaker 1: grateful that I had all those opportunities to try everything
6:15
Speaker 1: as a kid, and now I've found the things that
6:19
Speaker 1: I like the best, which I think is Yeah, it's
6:22
Speaker 1: super cool that now I get to pour all of
6:24
Speaker 1: my energy into one thing. But yeah, after growing up
6:29
Speaker 1: in Maine, I then did my undergrad in Vermont and
6:33
Speaker 1: then also lived in Salt Lake City for a couple
6:35
Speaker 1: of years before moving to Zurich, Switzerland, where I did
6:39
Speaker 1: my PhD, which I finished last year. And when I
6:43
Speaker 1: was there living in Switzerland is where I met my
6:46
Speaker 1: now partner, German, who was French, and that is how
6:50
Speaker 1: I ended up staying in France. So yeah, it's a
6:53
Speaker 1: whirlwind tour, but that's how I ended.
6:55
Speaker 3: Up there, Isn't it funny when you can consolidate like
6:59
Speaker 3: decades of your life if into like a two minute
7:01
Speaker 3: sound clip.
7:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had to work on that because there's a
7:05
Speaker 1: lot of other things in between that I've decided to
7:08
Speaker 1: filter out.
7:10
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about growing up because up in Maine,
7:13
Speaker 3: having so much access to nature. I know you got
7:15
Speaker 3: your PhD in geology, So did you know from a
7:18
Speaker 3: young age that you just had such a vested interest
7:22
Speaker 3: in nature?
7:22
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up in the mountains really, I grew
7:25
Speaker 1: up kind of closer to the coast. But being outside
7:28
Speaker 1: was always like really important part of my every day.
7:31
Speaker 1: So like even just all the sports teams I was
7:34
Speaker 1: on obviously more complicated in the winter in Maine it's
7:37
Speaker 1: quite cold and snowy, but yeah, being outside was always
7:41
Speaker 1: a big part of my life. And I had always
7:43
Speaker 1: wanted to be a biologist because I thought that that
7:46
Speaker 1: was something that could bring me outside in my studies.
7:50
Speaker 1: And I always had like a real passion for science.
7:54
Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I got to college that I
7:56
Speaker 1: realized geology was really a topic. We didn't have much
8:01
Speaker 1: geology instruction in high school, and I didn't really Yeah,
8:05
Speaker 1: I guess I didn't really even know what it was
8:06
Speaker 1: until I took my first couple classes in college, and
8:09
Speaker 1: then I knew instantly, like that's what I wanted to do.
8:13
Speaker 1: We just spent so much time outside for class, and
8:17
Speaker 1: once a week we would have a five hour field
8:19
Speaker 1: trip lab and that was really like what sold me
8:23
Speaker 1: because it was five hours hiking around with people who
8:26
Speaker 1: were also really passionate about the same thing, which I
8:29
Speaker 1: think drawsy really close to your peers, and I found
8:32
Speaker 1: a great like friend group. I had wonderful professors, I
8:37
Speaker 1: was learning stuff, I was outside, still had my science
8:41
Speaker 1: brain alive. So yeah, that's how I found geology.
8:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love that you really pursued that while
8:49
Speaker 3: simultaneously pursuing your interest in trail running, ultra running, et cetera.
8:55
Speaker 3: Talk to me about what it was like to have
8:59
Speaker 3: those interests on parallel paths.
9:02
Speaker 1: They just come from the same roots, really, like, Yeah,
9:05
Speaker 1: I just had this this passion for being outside, being
9:09
Speaker 1: in the mountains, and it in my academic life, it
9:12
Speaker 1: took me to geology, and in my athletic life, it
9:15
Speaker 1: took me to trail running. And yeah, you'll meet a
9:19
Speaker 1: lot of other geologists or trail runner. You'll meet a
9:22
Speaker 1: lot of geologists who also enjoy like trail running or
9:25
Speaker 1: hiking or climbing. And you'll also meet a lot of
9:28
Speaker 1: trail runners who maybe have a history and geology or
9:32
Speaker 1: some earth science.
9:33
Speaker 3: Did you feel like when you started getting into trail
9:37
Speaker 3: running that there were some intimidating factors or things that
9:41
Speaker 3: made it difficult.
9:43
Speaker 1: I don't think there was any one thing that made
9:45
Speaker 1: it seem super difficult, because I think so The way
9:50
Speaker 1: that I found trail running was through hiking, and I
9:55
Speaker 1: think I just gradually. The way I've described it in
9:58
Speaker 1: the past is like basically I I was doing this
10:00
Speaker 1: activity like hiking fast, and then I realized that what
10:04
Speaker 1: I was doing was actually called trail running. So I
10:07
Speaker 1: kind of like learned that what I was doing had
10:09
Speaker 1: a name and that it was a sport and that
10:11
Speaker 1: you could compete in it. And that was really cool,
10:15
Speaker 1: you know, like, you have this thing that you love
10:17
Speaker 1: and then you realize that there's races and other people
10:20
Speaker 1: who do this thing and it's something you can really, yeah,
10:24
Speaker 1: get totally caught up in. So in that sense, I
10:29
Speaker 1: don't think there was any ever anything where I was like, oh,
10:31
Speaker 1: this is really hard, because it was just like, Oh,
10:33
Speaker 1: I already do this. It's so much fun. I love it. Okay,
10:37
Speaker 1: now I can do it in a race.
10:38
Speaker 3: It's so funny that you say that, because I would
10:41
Speaker 3: say that as someone who maybe doesn't have regular access
10:45
Speaker 3: to trails, going out to the trails can definitely feel
10:49
Speaker 3: for me a little bit intimidating because it's a lot
10:52
Speaker 3: more complicated, let's say, than stepping outside and going for
10:57
Speaker 3: a run down the street.
10:58
Speaker 2: Here where I live in Brooklyn.
11:00
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the thing, one thing that made that a
11:02
Speaker 1: lot easier, I guess in terms of this like transition
11:06
Speaker 1: and approach to being outside, is that I worked in
11:09
Speaker 1: mountain huts for Fort Summers in New Hampshire, and so
11:12
Speaker 1: we were living above tree line on the trails in
11:17
Speaker 1: a building like serving breakfast and dinner to hikers. And yeah,
11:22
Speaker 1: there's a whole another side of that story about that job,
11:24
Speaker 1: but yeah, basically you're living in the mountains on surrounded
11:28
Speaker 1: by trails, so every single day you're going outside and
11:31
Speaker 1: and yeah, what we just called hiking, which now I
11:35
Speaker 1: call running. And so when you just get so used
11:38
Speaker 1: to it being a normal part of your life, it's Yeah,
11:40
Speaker 1: it's definitely a lot easier than if you were to
11:44
Speaker 1: maybe only have been on one trail run in your
11:46
Speaker 1: life and they have to drive four hours and then
11:48
Speaker 1: you're not really sure like which trail to go on
11:51
Speaker 1: and how like you know how much water to take
11:54
Speaker 1: or should I bring a jacket and which shoes to wear?
11:57
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think, what, the more you have to
12:00
Speaker 1: something right, the more it becomes the norm.
12:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when you were working in those mountain huts,
12:06
Speaker 3: what was your favorite part of that experience. I'm sure
12:09
Speaker 3: a majority of the people listening to this can't even
12:11
Speaker 3: imagine what that would be like, whereas like their summer
12:14
Speaker 3: job was like working at a local sandwich shop.
12:18
Speaker 1: I mean it is, yeah, the best. It's hard. It's
12:21
Speaker 1: really hard to describe this job because it's so unique
12:24
Speaker 1: and it also very intense. But it's basically if you
12:28
Speaker 1: were to work at, you know, your normal summer restaurant job,
12:31
Speaker 1: but the restaurant happens to be like a one to
12:36
Speaker 1: three hour hike from a road, and you work with
12:39
Speaker 1: the same five to ten people every single day, and
12:43
Speaker 1: you sleep in a bunk room with them, and you
12:45
Speaker 1: can basically like touch each other from the beds. The
12:48
Speaker 1: room is so small, and you're basically working twenty four
12:52
Speaker 1: hours a day I mean technically not, but you are
12:56
Speaker 1: kind of on call at all times. My favorite part
12:59
Speaker 1: actually was carrying the food up and down, so carrying
13:02
Speaker 1: the food to the hut for the resupply and then
13:05
Speaker 1: carrying the trash down. And we had these big, huge
13:08
Speaker 1: wooden packboards that we would then like strap the boxes to,
13:13
Speaker 1: so like really really old school, and it had these
13:16
Speaker 1: the packboards that we called They had these leather straps,
13:20
Speaker 1: and you just felt really like it just felt really
13:24
Speaker 1: way more hardcore than carrying a backpack, you know, like
13:27
Speaker 1: these leather straps they would like kind of make you bleed.
13:29
Speaker 1: Sometimes they would cut into your shoulders and we would
13:33
Speaker 1: carry pretty heavy loads. And that those were the days
13:37
Speaker 1: when I felt like, Wow, I'm you know, you feel
13:39
Speaker 1: really strong when you get to the building after hiking
13:43
Speaker 1: for one, one or two hours with this thing on
13:46
Speaker 1: your back, and you like unload the veggies and all
13:50
Speaker 1: the produce that you that you carried up and then
13:53
Speaker 1: you go and cook dinner with that. Yeah, it's like
13:56
Speaker 1: a really empowering feeling to be night and carrying you know,
14:01
Speaker 1: up to sixty pounds of food up to a hut.
14:05
Speaker 2: Was this something that your parents came up doing as well.
14:10
Speaker 1: No, my dad grew up like backpacking and hiking, and
14:13
Speaker 1: my mom worked. She was in the Peace Corps for
14:17
Speaker 1: two years as Yeah, like a I guess, young twenty
14:20
Speaker 1: year old in Nepal, so she actually had quite a
14:23
Speaker 1: bit of experience like living in a village in the
14:26
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, but they didn't. Yeah, this was something
14:30
Speaker 1: that I kind of sought out and I had been
14:33
Speaker 1: to these huts as a kid with my dad, so
14:35
Speaker 1: we had like stayed in the hut, and I had
14:37
Speaker 1: always kind of admired the people working there and thought, wow,
14:42
Speaker 1: like one day that would be super cool to work
14:44
Speaker 1: here too.
14:45
Speaker 3: That's kind of crazy to be able to have that
14:48
Speaker 3: sort of access and also like the exposure to the
14:51
Speaker 3: different types of people that you must meet doing something
14:53
Speaker 3: like that.
14:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say by the end of the summer,
14:56
Speaker 1: it gets quite exhausting, because it is you are working
14:59
Speaker 1: in the service industry. So when the like when the
15:04
Speaker 1: tenth person of the morning asks you where the bathroom is,
15:09
Speaker 1: you have to, you know, collect yourself and remember they
15:12
Speaker 1: don't know that they're the tenth person to ask you
15:15
Speaker 1: or the bathroom is that day. So it was a
15:17
Speaker 1: good lesson in patience.
15:19
Speaker 3: Also knowing that you really loved this time outside and
15:25
Speaker 3: the way that it felt to work hard, you then
15:29
Speaker 3: carried that with you as you started to get into
15:32
Speaker 3: the sport of trail running. When does your hobby for
15:37
Speaker 3: trail running move past the hobby stage and into a
15:42
Speaker 3: holy shoot, I'm actually competing doing this.
15:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a few stages, so there's like the this
15:49
Speaker 1: is my hobby stage. And then when I got to
15:53
Speaker 1: which I guess probably developed from working in the huts
15:57
Speaker 1: through living in Salt Lake City, where I did my
16:00
Speaker 1: first couple of races, and then when I moved to Switzerland,
16:03
Speaker 1: I did a few more races, but I was really,
16:07
Speaker 1: you know, still trying to adjust to the big move
16:09
Speaker 1: and getting my feet under me, like meeting people, you
16:13
Speaker 1: know generally, you know, getting my ID card and my
16:16
Speaker 1: new driver's license, like all those things that take forever.
16:20
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's when when I met my partner. He
16:25
Speaker 1: was already in the sport at like a more competitive level,
16:29
Speaker 1: and he was kind of the first one who kind
16:32
Speaker 1: of said to me, like, you know, you can actually
16:34
Speaker 1: be like really good at this. And it was the
16:37
Speaker 1: first time someone had really said that to me. Like
16:39
Speaker 1: I kind of thought like, oh, maybe this is something
16:42
Speaker 1: I could be good at, but I'm not really sure.
16:44
Speaker 1: You don't really know. And yeah, he was the first
16:47
Speaker 1: person who was just like had so much confidence in me,
16:51
Speaker 1: and it made me more confident in myself and allowed
16:54
Speaker 1: me to not feel like embarrassed about approaching it a
16:58
Speaker 1: little bit more seriously. After that, I had like some
17:01
Speaker 1: good results, you know, but nothing crazy. I was doing
17:05
Speaker 1: more of the sport that's called sky running, which is
17:07
Speaker 1: like shorter distance and more technical. And then throughout yeah,
17:11
Speaker 1: those years, maybe two or three years after I started,
17:14
Speaker 1: I saw that I could make this my full time job.
17:18
Speaker 1: And then I slowly transitioned from like my PhD to
17:23
Speaker 1: being a full time professional athlete. So there was kind
17:25
Speaker 1: of a gray area in there.
17:27
Speaker 2: What was it like for you to uproot and move abroad?
17:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was It's still one of the moments that
17:35
Speaker 1: I can look back on in my life and see
17:39
Speaker 1: that it was like a huge turning point and also
17:42
Speaker 1: that it was a huge decision and that I'm it's
17:46
Speaker 1: something I take confidence from because I'm like, wow, you know,
17:49
Speaker 1: I was offered this position in Zurich, having not really
17:54
Speaker 1: it wasn't like my objective to move to Switzerland to
17:57
Speaker 1: do a PhD. I honestly wasn't even sure wanted to
18:00
Speaker 1: do a PhD. I had kind of just applied for
18:02
Speaker 1: this position. It's hard to describe, but like kind of
18:06
Speaker 1: on a whim, I was just like, oh, why not whatever,
18:08
Speaker 1: And then I wasn't expecting to offer the job, and
18:11
Speaker 1: so I had to make this decision, and it was
18:13
Speaker 1: really tough because I was really happy in Salt Lake
18:16
Speaker 1: City and had such great friends and had kind of
18:19
Speaker 1: felt like I had made this community there. But I
18:22
Speaker 1: knew that it was I could see it was this
18:25
Speaker 1: offer coming at a turning point anyway, like either I
18:29
Speaker 1: was going to stay in Salt Lake, you know, for good,
18:33
Speaker 1: more or less, or I was going to make this
18:36
Speaker 1: change in my life. And yeah, I didn't like you know,
18:39
Speaker 1: I didn't own a house. I had a dog, which
18:42
Speaker 1: was hard to make a decision about. But otherwise, yeah,
18:46
Speaker 1: I was more like leaving friends. That made the decision
18:49
Speaker 1: the hardest.
18:50
Speaker 2: What happened with the dog.
18:52
Speaker 1: He has a new family and actually, just by chance,
18:55
Speaker 1: he lives in Sweden now, no way. Yeah, so he's
18:59
Speaker 1: loving his life in Sweden and I get I still, Yeah,
19:04
Speaker 1: he lives with friends of mine, so yeah, I mean
19:07
Speaker 1: he's been with my friends longer than I ever had him,
19:09
Speaker 1: so he's their dog now. But yeah, I love seeing
19:12
Speaker 1: the updates of him in Sweden.
19:15
Speaker 2: Oh buddy, Oh my gosh. Yeah.
19:17
Speaker 3: And not to mention moving to a place where not
19:21
Speaker 3: everyone around you is speaking your first language.
19:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, so in Zurich, it's it's okay because it's super international. Yeah,
19:29
Speaker 1: there's a huge percentage of the city that isn't even Swiss.
19:33
Speaker 1: And at the university, everything above the master's degree is
19:36
Speaker 1: in English. So actually my research group was I think
19:40
Speaker 1: it was mostly like Chinese and then there was a
19:43
Speaker 1: few Americans, few Germans. We only actually had one Swiss
19:47
Speaker 1: person in our research group, so yeah, there was a
19:50
Speaker 1: lot of languages and English was the common language. So
19:53
Speaker 1: it actually made it easy to be pretty lazy because
19:56
Speaker 1: I kind of only interacted with people at the university.
20:00
Speaker 1: And then yeah, moving to France after that was is
20:04
Speaker 1: a lot harder because now we live in a village
20:07
Speaker 1: of like sixty people in the middle of nowhere, and yeah,
20:11
Speaker 1: my partner is one of the only people who speaks
20:13
Speaker 1: English like fluently, so I think it was it was
20:17
Speaker 1: probably pretty hard for him actually at the beginning, because
20:20
Speaker 1: I was super super reliant on him. Like I I'm
20:24
Speaker 1: kind of I don't want to say shy, because I'm
20:27
Speaker 1: like happy to you know, meet people, but I'm kind
20:30
Speaker 1: of timid in situations in another language. I wasn't the
20:36
Speaker 1: one out there trying to practice my French to strangers,
20:39
Speaker 1: so I relied pretty heavily on him. And now I'm
20:43
Speaker 1: a lot more confident, like I can do things by myself,
20:45
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm less self conscious about all the
20:49
Speaker 1: language mistakes I make. But yeah, I think it was
20:51
Speaker 1: hard on both of us because I kind of only
20:53
Speaker 1: had him to talk to for a while. And yeah,
20:58
Speaker 1: but he Yeah, I'm glad we got past that stage because, yeah,
21:05
Speaker 1: it's a lot better now that I can do more
21:07
Speaker 1: things alone.
21:08
Speaker 2: How did that feel for you at first?
21:12
Speaker 1: It's still not the same as being in the US.
21:14
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes now if I go into the bank
21:17
Speaker 1: or just like today I got my haircut, you know,
21:20
Speaker 1: you give yourself a pep talk before you go in,
21:23
Speaker 1: like it's okay, do your best, like you got this, Like,
21:27
Speaker 1: just to do really basic tasks sometimes can feel really exhausting.
21:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's understandable, right, There's a lot that goes hand
21:36
Speaker 3: in hand with not being able to easily communicate with
21:39
Speaker 3: the people around you. You said something before that I noticed,
21:44
Speaker 3: which was that you felt embarrassed at first that the
21:47
Speaker 3: idea of making this your full time profession.
21:50
Speaker 2: Talk to me a little bit about that.
21:53
Speaker 1: I would say more less when I got to the
21:55
Speaker 1: stage of making it my profession, because I'd already kind
21:59
Speaker 1: of been in it. But I think at least when
22:01
Speaker 1: I was kind of coming into the sport in the US,
22:04
Speaker 1: there was sort of this feeling around the sport that
22:08
Speaker 1: you had to it was cool to not care about
22:11
Speaker 1: it and like, oh, yeah, I just showed up and
22:15
Speaker 1: doing this race, but I don't really care. You know,
22:17
Speaker 1: it's all just to have fun, which it is, right,
22:19
Speaker 1: like we're there to have fun. But there's also a
22:21
Speaker 1: point where like, Okay, I you know I paid for
22:24
Speaker 1: this race. I got up super early this morning. You know,
22:27
Speaker 1: I'm really nervous, So clearly I care about what's happening,
22:31
Speaker 1: or I wouldn't come to a race. So I think
22:34
Speaker 1: I finally went like what was coming to Europe helped
22:37
Speaker 1: me a lot, because I think in the European race
22:42
Speaker 1: scene there's a slightly more serious approach and it's not
22:47
Speaker 1: like frowned on at all. It's normal to say like, yeah,
22:51
Speaker 1: I really want to do well, or be like, oh,
22:52
Speaker 1: I was really disappointed in how I did. And I
22:55
Speaker 1: felt like when I was first consuming trail running media,
22:58
Speaker 1: at least in the US, is really yeah, it was
23:02
Speaker 1: cool to to not care, and you didn't want to
23:05
Speaker 1: show that you cared too much.
23:07
Speaker 2: What is caring too much?
23:09
Speaker 1: Though I think it was. I mean, the thing about
23:13
Speaker 1: trail running is that it's right now, it's on the
23:17
Speaker 1: bridge of being like a lifestyle sport and a performance sport.
23:21
Speaker 1: Like we still want to maintain these like super nice
23:23
Speaker 1: pictures of us, you know, running in the mountains looking
23:26
Speaker 1: like it's all easy and care free. But then we're
23:29
Speaker 1: also coming into this phase where we're being more open
23:31
Speaker 1: about like, yeah, I train a lot to do to
23:34
Speaker 1: do well at a race, and like, I devote a
23:36
Speaker 1: lot of time and energy, you know, I work with
23:39
Speaker 1: a coach, Like even a few years ago, not that
23:43
Speaker 1: many people worked with coaches or maybe a nutritionist or
23:46
Speaker 1: a mental coach or these are all becoming more normal now,
23:51
Speaker 1: whereas in the past you would maybe say like, oh, yeah,
23:55
Speaker 1: that person, like you know, they're not having fun because
23:58
Speaker 1: they care too much. And I think now we see
24:02
Speaker 1: you can you can care about something and have fun
24:05
Speaker 1: because you're putting your energy to something you care about.
24:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, and what you're doing takes a lot of energy
24:13
Speaker 3: out of the kind of portfolio of experts that you
24:16
Speaker 3: just mentioned. What experts are you yourself working with these
24:20
Speaker 3: days as a part of your team.
24:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, my team is my coach, my partner for sure,
24:27
Speaker 1: even though it doesn't have like a designated rule. But yeah,
24:31
Speaker 1: a big part of my life. And then I work
24:34
Speaker 1: with a mental coach, and I consult with a nutritionist,
24:38
Speaker 1: sometimes a physio that that we see or like when
24:42
Speaker 1: we're on the road, we're usually seeing a physio.
24:45
Speaker 3: Somewhere somewhere, finding one in some small town somewhere exactly
24:51
Speaker 3: on the nutrition side of things.
24:52
Speaker 2: Let's talk a lot, a lot about that.
24:54
Speaker 3: There are many people listening to this that may, you know,
24:57
Speaker 3: work out recreationally or maybe they it like to run,
25:00
Speaker 3: and there's certainly a way to fuel for that when
25:04
Speaker 3: it comes to the roads with the trails and the
25:06
Speaker 3: ultras specifically are an entirely different beast. So talk to
25:10
Speaker 3: me about your journey to learning how to fuel your
25:14
Speaker 3: body appropriately for the level of intensity and sport that
25:18
Speaker 3: you're taking on.
25:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I've learned a lot in the
25:24
Speaker 1: last few years. And none of what I've learned is
25:27
Speaker 1: that exciting. You know, It's stuff that I learned that
25:30
Speaker 1: I should have already known. You know, like when someone
25:33
Speaker 1: tells you, yeah, you should make sure you eat enough
25:37
Speaker 1: before you go for a long run. You're like, oh, yeah,
25:40
Speaker 1: I should know that, but I needed you to tell
25:42
Speaker 1: me that because sometimes you kind of get lost. Especially
25:46
Speaker 1: when I lived in Zurich. You know, I was way
25:48
Speaker 1: busier in my daily life, and I'm not someone who
25:51
Speaker 1: says like I forget to eat, but it was harder
25:53
Speaker 1: logistically because you're like in the lab and on the
25:56
Speaker 1: move and on the train to go back to the apartment,
25:58
Speaker 1: and then you know, trying to squeeze in runs at
26:01
Speaker 1: random times of the day when you have time. Now
26:04
Speaker 1: I can be way more deliberate about like when I eat,
26:07
Speaker 1: when I run, how I feel. But yeah, I think
26:12
Speaker 1: the biggest thing is was just consuming more and especially
26:18
Speaker 1: focusing more on protein. I think I didn't do a
26:20
Speaker 1: great job of that when I was living in Zurich, because,
26:23
Speaker 1: like I said, I was always trying to eat lunch
26:26
Speaker 1: quickly at my desk in between lab time, and I
26:30
Speaker 1: think there was days I definitely wasn't. I just wasn't
26:33
Speaker 1: consuming enough calories. And it's easy to look at the
26:37
Speaker 1: people around you who maybe aren't doing what you're doing
26:40
Speaker 1: and think that you're doing normal things. But then at
26:43
Speaker 1: the end of the day you have to remember like, Okay,
26:45
Speaker 1: but I'm going to go on a two hour run
26:46
Speaker 1: later today, and they're not, or maybe they are. But
26:51
Speaker 1: you have to look at yourself without comparing it to
26:54
Speaker 1: other people around.
26:55
Speaker 3: You in so many aspects, right, I mean not only
26:58
Speaker 3: in nutrition what it is that your body needs, but
27:01
Speaker 3: also going back to how you were feeling about transitioning
27:05
Speaker 3: into this being your full time job, right, like you
27:08
Speaker 3: are different than the person next to you, who is
27:10
Speaker 3: different than the person standing next to that.
27:13
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly. And yeah. The other big thing that
27:18
Speaker 1: I learned was that you actually, just like you practice
27:21
Speaker 1: running to do well in a race, you have to
27:24
Speaker 1: practice eating while running so that you can be good
27:27
Speaker 1: at eating while running during a race. With some people
27:30
Speaker 1: in the sport that were sort of this like badge
27:32
Speaker 1: of honor, if you could go for a run without
27:34
Speaker 1: eating for like a long period of time, they would
27:37
Speaker 1: say like, oh no, now, oh, you're like falling apart
27:40
Speaker 1: because you have to like eat something now because you're
27:43
Speaker 1: getting tired. But now I learned, but like in the
27:45
Speaker 1: last two years, I've really learned that if you don't
27:48
Speaker 1: practice eating while you run, then when you get to
27:50
Speaker 1: the race, your body is going to be super confused
27:53
Speaker 1: about what you're doing, because you obviously need to consume
27:56
Speaker 1: quite a few carbohydrates for these long efforts, and if
28:00
Speaker 1: you haven't practiced that, then it's not going to work
28:03
Speaker 1: on race day.
28:04
Speaker 3: So interesting that phrase like that there could be a
28:07
Speaker 3: badge of honor for not eating.
28:09
Speaker 2: I feel like that's just a societal thing.
28:11
Speaker 1: This is more like old school French approach. Yeah, they're
28:14
Speaker 1: like a little bit I don't want to diss France
28:17
Speaker 1: too much, but they're a little bit behind on the nutrition,
28:20
Speaker 1: like applying nutrition research. So they were still in the
28:24
Speaker 1: low carb phase when I got here, where the US
28:27
Speaker 1: was still was already in the high carb phase, and
28:29
Speaker 1: now France is coming into high carb. So yeah, just
28:32
Speaker 1: it's funny to see the shifts on different continents.
28:34
Speaker 3: So as you get more acquainted in France and you're
28:39
Speaker 3: racing more, do you start to really feel the benefits
28:43
Speaker 3: of living over here and training for your sport.
28:47
Speaker 1: It depends on the race. Each race, I try to
28:50
Speaker 1: train as specifically as possible. So UTMB is here in Chermany,
28:55
Speaker 1: so that's why we're here in Chermany right now. I'm
28:58
Speaker 1: actually not running the full UTMB this year. I'm running
29:01
Speaker 1: the occ which is the fifty k, but my partner
29:04
Speaker 1: is running the full UTMB, so we came here, yeah,
29:08
Speaker 1: six weeks early so that he could train specifically on
29:11
Speaker 1: the course and for sure, yet that's like the biggest
29:16
Speaker 1: thing you can do before the race is just literally
29:18
Speaker 1: run on the race course. And then to answer your question, like, no,
29:22
Speaker 1: living in France is not great. When I wanted to
29:25
Speaker 1: prepare for Western States, which is in the US and
29:28
Speaker 1: is a very flat, hot, one hundred mile race which
29:31
Speaker 1: happens at the end of June, which is quite early
29:33
Speaker 1: actually because we ski in the winter like we do
29:36
Speaker 1: ski mountaineering, and that season ends like mid March even April.
29:41
Speaker 1: So I actually went to the US two months ahead
29:44
Speaker 1: of that race to practice running in those conditions. So
29:49
Speaker 1: it really just depends on where the race is and
29:51
Speaker 1: where you can train to match the conditions of the race.
29:54
Speaker 3: How does it feel that your body is critical to
29:57
Speaker 3: your livelihood?
29:59
Speaker 1: Right now, my body is my livelihood, and I know
30:04
Speaker 1: it won't always be like that, but I also know
30:07
Speaker 1: that I will want my body to be functional and
30:10
Speaker 1: healthy when it's not my livelihood. That becomes a delicate
30:14
Speaker 1: balance because right now it's what I'm relying on solely
30:17
Speaker 1: for work, but when I'm you know, in thirty years, like,
30:21
Speaker 1: I still want to be able to go outside and
30:24
Speaker 1: enjoy the things that I enjoy, and I don't want
30:26
Speaker 1: to risk that right now. So those are tough decisions
30:30
Speaker 1: to make now, especially because we don't know that much
30:33
Speaker 1: about the long term effects of the sport because it's
30:36
Speaker 1: such a young sport and there's not that many people
30:39
Speaker 1: who have done it consistently for that long. It's just
30:43
Speaker 1: going off your best intentions, I guess, and your best
30:46
Speaker 1: instincts how to maintain a high level of performance, but
30:51
Speaker 1: also not forgetting that there is a life after that.
30:59
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Speaker 3: what you were talking about about the importance of nutrition
34:09
Speaker 3: in your day to day as well as when you're racing.
34:11
Speaker 3: How else is Katie taking care of Katie so that
34:14
Speaker 3: your body is in the best position that it can be.
34:17
Speaker 1: The biggest thing is that when I take time off,
34:22
Speaker 1: I'm really cognizant of the fact that I'm taking time off.
34:26
Speaker 1: If I say, Okay, this is my last race severe
34:29
Speaker 1: and now we take, you know, running time off until
34:33
Speaker 1: whatever next spring, then I'm really focused on not doing
34:39
Speaker 1: too much. I'm quick to say no to things, which
34:42
Speaker 1: is hard because right like, I love going in the
34:44
Speaker 1: mountains and being outside. But when I say I'm taking
34:47
Speaker 1: time off, i can't go on a four hour fun
34:51
Speaker 1: run with a friend every day, which could be super
34:54
Speaker 1: fun and I would love to do that. But I'm
34:56
Speaker 1: also thinking long term about racing and about yeah, my
34:59
Speaker 1: just long term health, and yeah, it's just important to
35:02
Speaker 1: really say okay, this time is off in that meat.
35:06
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that I'm only sitting on the couch
35:08
Speaker 1: for like a month or two, but it means okay,
35:10
Speaker 1: easy runs and of course making exceptions when it makes sense.
35:14
Speaker 1: But yeah, just being deliberate about when I'm on and
35:18
Speaker 1: when I'm off.
35:19
Speaker 3: Do you find that you experience guilt during those off months,
35:23
Speaker 3: or are you at a place now where you actually
35:25
Speaker 3: really just appreciate and respect the break.
35:29
Speaker 1: I think it's harder. It's not that I experienced guilt.
35:32
Speaker 1: It's more that you it's just like a huge lifestyle
35:35
Speaker 1: swhich you know, you're like so focused on maybe one
35:39
Speaker 1: big goal for for a few months, and then all
35:42
Speaker 1: of a sudden it's done, and then there's a new
35:45
Speaker 1: day and you're like, oh, okay, you know that's past.
35:50
Speaker 1: Now what and your My first instinct is always to
35:53
Speaker 1: be like, okay, wait to think about the next race,
35:55
Speaker 1: like what am I going to do differently? How am
35:57
Speaker 1: I going to make it better? But when it's off
36:00
Speaker 1: the time to do that, when it's really the end
36:01
Speaker 1: of the season, then yeah, maybe a week or two
36:06
Speaker 1: after I'll be like, ah, but you know, I really
36:08
Speaker 1: want to do this because I came up with this
36:10
Speaker 1: idea of like how I can be better next time.
36:12
Speaker 1: But I think after that, once that excitement kind of fades,
36:17
Speaker 1: then no, I don't need the sport to like confirm
36:21
Speaker 1: anything with myself. And I think it's important to be
36:24
Speaker 1: able to take time off and not feel like if
36:27
Speaker 1: you feel guilty taking time off, then I don't think.
36:31
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if the relationship with the sport is
36:34
Speaker 1: that healthy. I think if I were to start to
36:36
Speaker 1: feel super guilty, I would want to question what my
36:39
Speaker 1: relationship is with the sport.
36:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's I mean, I think that's really profound, right.
36:44
Speaker 3: It's understandable when someone really relates to or identifies with
36:48
Speaker 3: whatever sport really interests them. To hear that you have
36:51
Speaker 3: such a good perspective on kind of what makes Katie
36:56
Speaker 3: Katie outside of your career and this sport that you have,
37:00
Speaker 3: I think it's really admirable.
37:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say it's easier to say that than
37:03
Speaker 1: to like really keep an audiot. But especially because it's
37:07
Speaker 1: my hobby and my job. So yeah, there's a point where,
37:11
Speaker 1: like if I'm injured or something, I feel more just
37:13
Speaker 1: frustrated because it's my job and I'm you know, not
37:16
Speaker 1: able to do it. I think the frustration comes more
37:19
Speaker 1: from that side than the side of like, oh, I
37:22
Speaker 1: have to do this to maintain my self identity. But
37:25
Speaker 1: I think all professional athletes I'm sure have have Yeah,
37:30
Speaker 1: that part of their life that's pretty difficult. Like, you
37:34
Speaker 1: have a lot weighing on on your passion, Like it's
37:39
Speaker 1: really cool to have this thing that you love for
37:41
Speaker 1: your job, but there comes a point where you don't
37:44
Speaker 1: want to not like the thing that you love because
37:47
Speaker 1: it's your job.
37:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a tough line to walk, Yeah, And.
37:50
Speaker 1: It's hard to explain sometimes to people outside that lifestyle
37:55
Speaker 1: because our job is to make it look like the
37:59
Speaker 1: coolest thing. For like, every day is awesome and we're
38:02
Speaker 1: just having fun, you know, running around, and some days
38:05
Speaker 1: it is like that, But there's a lot of days
38:07
Speaker 1: it's not like that at all. And there's some days
38:09
Speaker 1: I wish I just had a normal job that I
38:11
Speaker 1: could like leave and lock the door and drive home
38:14
Speaker 1: and then just leave everything at the office. And I
38:17
Speaker 1: don't get to do that.
38:18
Speaker 3: It goes back to your point of it being like
38:20
Speaker 3: a really unique and special opportunity. How does it feel
38:24
Speaker 3: to share this opportunity, specifically your job, with your partner.
38:31
Speaker 1: That's a good question because that further complicates everything, right,
38:34
Speaker 1: because my relationship is also like a bit tied into
38:37
Speaker 1: everything to our relationship. But I think we've we've done
38:43
Speaker 1: a good job. I mean, we've done the best we
38:45
Speaker 1: can and I were happy with how everything is going,
38:48
Speaker 1: but we kind of have our own little team and
38:51
Speaker 1: we manage all of our partnerships together. And I think
38:55
Speaker 1: that's helped both of us a lot because we can,
38:58
Speaker 1: you know, pass off things to each other, like, you know,
39:02
Speaker 1: he'll take care of some emails and I'll take care
39:04
Speaker 1: of others. And it's kind of fun to like work
39:06
Speaker 1: together on things. Of course, it's not always fun, but
39:10
Speaker 1: it would be nice to you know, just go to
39:12
Speaker 1: dinner and like not have to talk about running, which
39:16
Speaker 1: we don't always talk about running, but it's easy for
39:20
Speaker 1: that to come up. But yeah, to have our life
39:23
Speaker 1: be this flexible in this like we both get to
39:27
Speaker 1: do what we love every day, and we both when
39:30
Speaker 1: we need time to do something, we can make the
39:32
Speaker 1: time for it. It's pretty flexible.
39:34
Speaker 3: It's funny as well, because I think at different points
39:38
Speaker 3: in my life I can say for sure that I
39:40
Speaker 3: had an idea or still have an idea what kind
39:44
Speaker 3: of person might be good for me to be with,
39:46
Speaker 3: And I always say that, you know, they don't have
39:48
Speaker 3: to be a runner. Maybe it'll be good if they
39:50
Speaker 3: have some stability. So for you to be in this
39:53
Speaker 3: relationship where you and your partner are so similar, are
39:58
Speaker 3: there moments where you're like, hmmm.
40:01
Speaker 2: Was this really what I thought I was going to
40:02
Speaker 2: get into.
40:04
Speaker 1: I'd say the only tough like the toughest times of
40:07
Speaker 1: the year are race weeks, and what we've learned in
40:10
Speaker 1: the past, we used to always do the same races
40:13
Speaker 1: because we thought like, oh, it makes sense, you know,
40:15
Speaker 1: we can kind of our training will be structured in
40:18
Speaker 1: a similar way and it will be easier for everyone.
40:21
Speaker 1: And I think we believed that for a while until
40:24
Speaker 1: we realized last year, like, actually, you know what, we're
40:28
Speaker 1: each other's best resources, and we like understand racing better
40:32
Speaker 1: than anyone else, and we're like not taking advantage that
40:36
Speaker 1: we have someone in house who can help us during
40:39
Speaker 1: a race. So this year where we've split forces. That's
40:43
Speaker 1: one of the big reasons why I'm not doing UTMB,
40:45
Speaker 1: because I really wanted to support him at UTMB, and
40:48
Speaker 1: I know that I can be a really valuable part
40:52
Speaker 1: of his support team during the race as opposed to
40:54
Speaker 1: being another stressed person in the house also needs, you know,
41:00
Speaker 1: help with last minute task because that was just a
41:03
Speaker 1: bit overwhelming.
41:04
Speaker 3: Have there been points where you've wanted to do the
41:06
Speaker 3: same thing and one of you has to make the
41:08
Speaker 3: call to dial it back.
41:12
Speaker 1: We just came up with this new strategy last year,
41:15
Speaker 1: so we haven't had that issue yet. I would say
41:19
Speaker 1: last year I had thought about doing another race in
41:21
Speaker 1: the fall, but he had gotten sick just before UTMB
41:26
Speaker 1: last year and wasn't able to finish. So the priority
41:31
Speaker 1: definitely went to him because I had, you know, yeah,
41:34
Speaker 1: the best my result of my life. And so instead
41:39
Speaker 1: of being like, oh, I really want to go to
41:40
Speaker 1: this race, which is the same weekend as another big
41:44
Speaker 1: race he wanted to do, I could clearly see it
41:46
Speaker 1: was the more obvious better choice to go help him
41:49
Speaker 1: at his race than to like send him off by
41:52
Speaker 1: himself and go do my own race, which wasn't totally necessary,
41:56
Speaker 1: and maybe it was even better for my long term
41:59
Speaker 1: health and training to to just cut it after UTM
42:01
Speaker 1: last year.
42:02
Speaker 3: Talk to me a little bit about what's in your
42:04
Speaker 3: gear rotation right now? What are the tools that you
42:06
Speaker 3: need to be successful in your sport.
42:08
Speaker 1: Definitely, the first thing is your running shoes. Obviously, that's
42:12
Speaker 1: the first thing touching in the ground. And then you know, apparel.
42:15
Speaker 1: You can get by with an old cotton T shirt,
42:17
Speaker 1: but it is nice to have like the more technical fabrics,
42:21
Speaker 1: especially for like a longer run if you know you're
42:23
Speaker 1: gonna get kind of wet, and then yeah, the other
42:26
Speaker 1: important thing is socks for sure. I would say over
42:29
Speaker 1: the years, like I've tried a lot of different socks
42:32
Speaker 1: because when you're running for i don't know, like up
42:37
Speaker 1: to five six hours just in a training run, you
42:40
Speaker 1: start to feel like every seam. And now I've really
42:46
Speaker 1: like switched my focus to just investing in better gear
42:51
Speaker 1: and like being more focused on the small details that
42:54
Speaker 1: can make a big difference, especially if you're talking about
42:57
Speaker 1: like a blister over many hours. So now I wear
43:02
Speaker 1: exclusively features socks, and I've been really lucky to have
43:05
Speaker 1: a partnership with them this year. Yeah, that's been like
43:08
Speaker 1: really key for both general and my partner and I.
43:11
Speaker 1: It seems like a small thing, but in trail running
43:14
Speaker 1: we do get really focused on just details because there's
43:18
Speaker 1: so much that's out of your control when you're running,
43:21
Speaker 1: and there's that there's only a few things you can control,
43:25
Speaker 1: and if you can really do those things well, then
43:28
Speaker 1: you can just you can one feel better because you
43:32
Speaker 1: have those things yeah, under control, but also just be
43:35
Speaker 1: more confident and more comfortable of course, like foot if
43:39
Speaker 1: you look at the UTMB stats, actually foot problems or like,
43:42
Speaker 1: I think the second biggest reason people drop out of ultras,
43:47
Speaker 1: the first being like nutritional problems. But yeah, I think
43:51
Speaker 1: if you can avoid blisters and issues with your feet,
43:55
Speaker 1: that's like a huge, a huge thing.
43:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
43:57
Speaker 3: I feel like socks are like the most overlooked thing,
44:00
Speaker 3: but literally the most critical thing, Like you said, next
44:04
Speaker 3: to your sneakers. I'll definitely have to get some features myself.
44:07
Speaker 3: What's your go to sneaker right now? What will you
44:09
Speaker 3: be racing in next week?
44:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're north Face athletes, so we use north
44:15
Speaker 1: Face shoes and I'll be using a new shoe called
44:18
Speaker 1: the Summit Skypro and yeah, that's what I'll use for
44:22
Speaker 1: the fifty k at OCC and then Jamaal will be
44:25
Speaker 1: using the Summit Pro, which is yeah, like a'm more cushioned.
44:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, before we talk about arguably the best day of
44:35
Speaker 3: your life, tell me a little bit about what goes
44:38
Speaker 3: into crewing for someone else for an event of this magnitude.
44:43
Speaker 1: It's quite on the day, it's quite stressful. It's a
44:47
Speaker 1: lot of I mean most of it, you're just like
44:50
Speaker 1: checking your phone for the timing update. UTMB has a
44:54
Speaker 1: really good live feed, so you can watch the live video.
44:57
Speaker 1: But what's hard is that everything is out of your
45:00
Speaker 1: control and you have this person that you're like so
45:03
Speaker 1: invested in and you care so much and you want
45:07
Speaker 1: so badly for them to do well, especially in our
45:10
Speaker 1: case because I've you know, watched his training first hands
45:13
Speaker 1: for the last seven years, so you have a lot
45:16
Speaker 1: of skin in the game, but you have absolutely no
45:18
Speaker 1: control over what happens, and you're just waiting. And it's
45:22
Speaker 1: not like you're watching a ten K and you're waiting,
45:24
Speaker 1: you know, half an hour. It's like you're waiting like up, yeah,
45:28
Speaker 1: twenty hours and just crossing your fingers the whole time.
45:32
Speaker 1: Because in an ultra you never know, you know, anything
45:36
Speaker 1: can happen at any point. So it's yeah, it's just
45:41
Speaker 1: very stressful, and it's a lot of like driving around
45:43
Speaker 1: and then you only get to see the runner for
45:46
Speaker 1: seconds or minutes at a time. Yeah, it's quite an experience.
45:50
Speaker 3: And having things prepared for them every time you're going
45:53
Speaker 3: to see them.
45:54
Speaker 2: Correct.
45:54
Speaker 1: So yeah, he's already done this, but he'll like organize
45:58
Speaker 1: out list out all the things he want at each
46:01
Speaker 1: AIDS station, and we'll have that already organized and ready
46:04
Speaker 1: before we leave. So then it's just a matter of
46:06
Speaker 1: like taking the bag for each AID station and having
46:09
Speaker 1: it there for him.
46:10
Speaker 3: Go to things that you look for when it comes
46:13
Speaker 3: to fueling your performance.
46:15
Speaker 2: Are they different between the two of you?
46:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, for racing, Actually we have pretty different nutrition strategies,
46:21
Speaker 1: which I think really speaks to how individual it is
46:23
Speaker 1: that even two people like living in the same house
46:27
Speaker 1: with similar objectives, like have very different strategies. So for him,
46:32
Speaker 1: he's he's really good with liquid calories and liquid carbs,
46:36
Speaker 1: and he uses we both use never second drink mix
46:40
Speaker 1: and gels. Yeah, so he'll be most of his calories
46:43
Speaker 1: come from his drink mixes, and then he has some
46:47
Speaker 1: like real food at the aid stations, Like this year,
46:51
Speaker 1: he'll have some like sushi rolls he can take with him,
46:53
Speaker 1: which is like some salt and rice and maybe a
46:55
Speaker 1: couple sandwiches just to have little pieces of that's more
46:58
Speaker 1: just to have the feeling of like eating a thing
47:00
Speaker 1: than anything then for like substantial calories. But yeah, and
47:05
Speaker 1: then he tries to hit something like eighty to one
47:08
Speaker 1: hundred grams of carbs an hour, whereas on the flip side,
47:11
Speaker 1: I'm someone who doesn't handle high carbohydrate drinks very well,
47:15
Speaker 1: So I use like a very minimal hydration mix with
47:19
Speaker 1: not a lot of carbs just because it doesn't sit
47:21
Speaker 1: well in my stomach, and then I rely more on
47:23
Speaker 1: gels and real foods. I guess you would say, I
47:26
Speaker 1: would say the baseline is like the gels, and then
47:29
Speaker 1: I'll like add in food on top. Yeah. I usually
47:32
Speaker 1: shoot for something like fifty to seventy grams of carbs
47:35
Speaker 1: per hour.
47:36
Speaker 2: That's so insane.
47:37
Speaker 3: Also, like just putting into context how different it is
47:40
Speaker 3: when you're removing your body for almost twenty four hours.
47:43
Speaker 3: For you, specifically last year's ut MB, you finished the
47:49
Speaker 3: one hundred and seventy kilometer race as we established, in
47:51
Speaker 3: twenty three hours, fifteen minutes and twelve seconds. Talk to
47:56
Speaker 3: me about those twenty three hours, fifteen minutes and twelve seconds.
48:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's a lot that happens in that
48:03
Speaker 1: amount of time.
48:03
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, But you were able to sum up thirty
48:07
Speaker 3: years of your life in like three minutes.
48:09
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. I need to get a better
48:11
Speaker 1: elevator speech for it was my third time at the race,
48:15
Speaker 1: so I was pretty familiar with like the run of
48:18
Speaker 1: show and how everything works, and yeah, what it's like
48:21
Speaker 1: to be in different places. The big thing was that
48:23
Speaker 1: in the past years I had started pretty slowly because
48:27
Speaker 1: everyone tells you like, Okay, don't start too fast. You know,
48:31
Speaker 1: it's a long day, which is very true and you
48:34
Speaker 1: shouldn't start too fast. But I kind of had this
48:36
Speaker 1: feeling last year. I was just like, you know what,
48:39
Speaker 1: I've tried this twice to just start slowly, and I
48:42
Speaker 1: felt horrible anyway and didn't have a good time, and
48:45
Speaker 1: I just want to do something differently this year. I
48:48
Speaker 1: just want to try something else, And like I was
48:51
Speaker 1: kind of just like, you know what, whatever, let's just
48:54
Speaker 1: do something new. And so I did start a lot
48:56
Speaker 1: faster than some people felt was appropriate. But I honestly
49:02
Speaker 1: felt good in my body and I felt really fit
49:04
Speaker 1: and relaxed. So I was like, just going to go
49:06
Speaker 1: with it. I know I'm going to feel bad at
49:08
Speaker 1: some point, and let's just like I just felt like
49:11
Speaker 1: I had a better mental approach, like I kind of
49:13
Speaker 1: accepted from the beginning, I'm going to feel bad at
49:16
Speaker 1: some point and this is going to be really hard,
49:18
Speaker 1: and I'm ready when I get there as opposed in
49:21
Speaker 1: the past, I think I was more running on fear
49:23
Speaker 1: of getting to that point. It was still really hard
49:25
Speaker 1: when I got to that point, you know, like I
49:27
Speaker 1: was losing my self confidence. I yeah, it was just
49:31
Speaker 1: it's hard to get to that point in an ultra
49:33
Speaker 1: And if any listeners have like been at that point,
49:38
Speaker 1: they know what it's like. It's the point where you think, Okay,
49:41
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to
49:42
Speaker 1: finish this, like this is going badly. But luckily I
49:45
Speaker 1: was able to stay in it and move well enough
49:48
Speaker 1: through that that when I started to feel better again,
49:51
Speaker 1: I hadn't lost too much time and that allowed me
49:55
Speaker 1: to finish feeling pretty good.
49:57
Speaker 3: Talk to me about that point, though, talk to me
50:00
Speaker 3: about what it is that you say to yourself when
50:02
Speaker 3: you really do wonder if you're down and out.
50:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, in this case, in particular, so UTMB, if it
50:09
Speaker 1: starts at five pm normally maybe six pm, I can't
50:12
Speaker 1: even remember, but if the first girls usually finish without
50:16
Speaker 1: a headlamp, because yeah, they finished before I think maybe
50:20
Speaker 1: eight pm or something. And in all the past years
50:23
Speaker 1: I had to finish with like the big headlamp because
50:26
Speaker 1: I had been way behind what I wanted to do,
50:29
Speaker 1: and it had been sort of this like symbol in
50:31
Speaker 1: my mind, like if I can finish without a headlamp,
50:33
Speaker 1: I don't care what play sam or what the time is,
50:35
Speaker 1: but it just put it just put me in a
50:37
Speaker 1: different category in my head, like it was the goal
50:40
Speaker 1: was to finish without a headlamp, so before sunset. And
50:45
Speaker 1: when I reached this point in the middle of the race,
50:48
Speaker 1: which was at I don't know, five or six am,
50:50
Speaker 1: I knew that I was losing time and I wasn't
50:53
Speaker 1: moving very well, and I felt, you know, sick and
50:57
Speaker 1: just so out of it. But I know that I
51:00
Speaker 1: was already on the timing sort of like on the
51:03
Speaker 1: splits to finish without a headlamp. And so that was
51:07
Speaker 1: all I was telling myself in my head, was like,
51:09
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter that, you know, Marianne had just passed me,
51:13
Speaker 1: so now I was in second. I wasn't sure how
51:15
Speaker 1: far behind, you know, third, fourth, fifth were. I was
51:18
Speaker 1: just like, it doesn't matter the place. Just remember like
51:21
Speaker 1: the goal was not to win, it was to finish
51:23
Speaker 1: without a headlamp, and it doesn't matter what the other
51:25
Speaker 1: girls are doing right now. Like my goal is to
51:28
Speaker 1: finish without a headlamp, and I can still do that
51:30
Speaker 1: if I continue to move well. I don't even have
51:32
Speaker 1: to move super fast. I just need to move well
51:34
Speaker 1: enough to get there, to get to the end. And
51:38
Speaker 1: that was literally the only thing I was telling myself
51:41
Speaker 1: in my head for probably I think it was probably
51:44
Speaker 1: over an hour until I got to the next aid
51:47
Speaker 1: station and was able to get in a little bit
51:49
Speaker 1: more food and kind of came back into better sanity.
51:53
Speaker 3: You put a really big emphasis on sort of putting
51:56
Speaker 3: your own blinders on and running your own race, which
51:59
Speaker 3: can be really difficult considering all of the external factors
52:04
Speaker 3: that are around you.
52:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think in ultra running in general, it's kind
52:09
Speaker 1: of the if you don't run your own race, then
52:14
Speaker 1: it's hard to be successful because everybody there's so many
52:18
Speaker 1: different aspects of ultra running that you need to be successful. Like,
52:23
Speaker 1: you need to be good at running on the flat
52:25
Speaker 1: parts of the race. You need to be a good
52:27
Speaker 1: hiker to go up, you know, the steeper climbs you
52:30
Speaker 1: need to be a good technical descender to get down.
52:33
Speaker 1: You know, the more technical trails you have to be
52:35
Speaker 1: good at eating. You have to know how to manage
52:36
Speaker 1: your gear, and you kind of have to be like
52:38
Speaker 1: pretty good at all those things. But everyone has little
52:41
Speaker 1: parts that they're better at, and it's the people who
52:45
Speaker 1: just play to their strengths when those come up, that
52:49
Speaker 1: are able to like manage a more successful long race
52:52
Speaker 1: as opposed to like trying to force something that they're
52:56
Speaker 1: not so, you know, force a part of the race
52:58
Speaker 1: that they're not so strong yet so well. Sometimes at
53:02
Speaker 1: the front of the men's race. At this point, yes,
53:04
Speaker 1: like the level is getting to the point where people
53:06
Speaker 1: at the front of the men's race are actually racing
53:08
Speaker 1: each other until the end. I would say, still in
53:11
Speaker 1: the women's race and maybe back a few places from
53:15
Speaker 1: the front of the men's race. It is still like
53:18
Speaker 1: you have to manage your race. It's one hundred and
53:20
Speaker 1: seventy duk right, Like what we're doing is crazy to
53:23
Speaker 1: begin with. It's not normal to do that, and you
53:26
Speaker 1: really have to respect the race first and getting to
53:28
Speaker 1: the end. Yeah, everyone asks like, oh, what's your goal
53:32
Speaker 1: for the race? And anytime I do an ultra, my
53:34
Speaker 1: goal is to finish. That's the first goal, you know.
53:36
Speaker 1: It's I think it's you're playing with fire if you
53:42
Speaker 1: start making goals that aren't based on the fact that
53:46
Speaker 1: you still want to finish.
53:47
Speaker 3: Would you say that that lesson the run your own
53:50
Speaker 3: race is something that has transferred to other aspects of
53:53
Speaker 3: your life.
53:54
Speaker 1: Maybe more the inverse, Like, I think I've always kind
53:58
Speaker 1: of made decisions that I've wanted to make for me,
54:01
Speaker 1: and definitely taken other people's advice. But good about like
54:05
Speaker 1: filtering which advice I won't I felt was constructive or helpful,
54:10
Speaker 1: and I think I brought that more to ultra running
54:13
Speaker 1: than the other way around.
54:15
Speaker 3: Now, you mentioned that the women's racing being very different
54:19
Speaker 3: than the men's racing.
54:20
Speaker 2: I don't have to tell you this, you know it.
54:22
Speaker 3: But for the listeners, less than ten percent of all
54:25
Speaker 3: UTMB participants have been women in the past. How do
54:28
Speaker 3: you feel about more women getting out on the trails
54:32
Speaker 3: and what's your advice to women that are interested in
54:35
Speaker 3: doing it themselves.
54:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say that women in the US are
54:40
Speaker 1: doing a great job. There's way more registration equality in
54:45
Speaker 1: the US than there is in Europe, and I hope
54:47
Speaker 1: that Europe can match the U, or you know, match
54:51
Speaker 1: or surpass the US at some point. I think part
54:54
Speaker 1: of that comes from the fact that, at least in
54:57
Speaker 1: France and Switzerland. I can't speak specifics about other European countries,
55:01
Speaker 1: but they don't grow up playing competitive sports in school.
55:04
Speaker 1: So for girls to get into sport, they have to
55:07
Speaker 1: be really motivated themselves and have a family that can
55:11
Speaker 1: help bring them to a practice or training or whatever
55:15
Speaker 1: club event. I didn't realize how fortunate we were in
55:18
Speaker 1: the US to have school sports until I got here
55:22
Speaker 1: and realized, like, oh, it's not normal for every ten
55:25
Speaker 1: year old to be on a soccer, basketball, and baseball team,
55:29
Speaker 1: you know, Like that was my whole childhood, was three
55:32
Speaker 1: sports a year, plus all the summer camp sports. And
55:35
Speaker 1: that's why I'm still doing this because I found so
55:37
Speaker 1: much confidence playing youth sports, Like I never felt like,
55:41
Speaker 1: oh I shouldn't be be athletic because I'm a girl
55:44
Speaker 1: or something like that. It was just normal. Whereas I've
55:47
Speaker 1: seen that more in the everyday culture, at least in France,
55:51
Speaker 1: it's not as common to find women who are confident
55:56
Speaker 1: enough to just sign up for a race or train
55:58
Speaker 1: for a race something like that.
56:00
Speaker 3: Someone goes to your Instagram page, they see a north
56:04
Speaker 3: face athlete that's getting lost in the French mountains with
56:07
Speaker 3: something like fifty nine thousand followers. When you look at
56:11
Speaker 3: yourself in the mirror, what is it that you see
56:13
Speaker 3: looking back at you?
56:15
Speaker 1: I still see like Katie from high school? Who was
56:19
Speaker 1: you know, off to student council meeting. I don't really
56:22
Speaker 1: see anyone that different. I can definitely see like changes
56:26
Speaker 1: I've made in my life, but I feel like inside,
56:29
Speaker 1: I still feel like I'm in high school.
56:32
Speaker 2: What are you excited about now, Katie?
56:35
Speaker 1: Now, I'm excited for next week? Yeah, looking at the schedule,
56:38
Speaker 1: I'm already tired, but I think it's going to be
56:41
Speaker 1: fun and it's it's good to have all the energy
56:43
Speaker 1: of all the trail runners around for one big celebration
56:47
Speaker 1: at the end of the.
56:48
Speaker 3: Summer, one big celebration. All right, finishing off here right now?
56:53
Speaker 3: You have an opportunity to offer yourself a piece of advice.
56:56
Speaker 3: When you made the pivot and decided to go full time,
57:00
Speaker 3: I'm with this endurance athlete, trail ultra running thing.
57:05
Speaker 2: What do you tell yourself? Knowing what you know now?
57:08
Speaker 1: I think that all the decisions and all the experiences
57:13
Speaker 1: I went through to get to this point were like
57:15
Speaker 1: a huge part of how I got here, and I
57:17
Speaker 1: think it was important no that I didn't know anything
57:21
Speaker 1: and that I had to learn everything on my own,
57:23
Speaker 1: and that's how I learned best anyways, just by like
57:27
Speaker 1: experiencing things by myself.
57:29
Speaker 3: By yourself, Katie, I'm so happy that we were able
57:32
Speaker 3: to make some time before everything gets really crazy next
57:36
Speaker 3: week to connect.
57:37
Speaker 2: I'm wishing you all the best of luck.
57:39
Speaker 3: For those of the hurdlers that don't follow along with
57:41
Speaker 3: you just yet, how do they follow you? How do
57:43
Speaker 3: they keep up with you? If they want to give
57:46
Speaker 3: us the details?
57:48
Speaker 1: My two best forms of social media are Instagram so
57:51
Speaker 1: that's just my name, Katie Shide and Strava, which I
57:56
Speaker 1: put all my training on, so no secrets. You can
57:58
Speaker 1: see everything I do and put pictures there too when
58:02
Speaker 1: I go on nice runds.
58:03
Speaker 2: Katie. Thanks again.
58:04
Speaker 3: I'm over at Emily Body and at Hurdle Podcast. Another
58:07
Speaker 3: hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time,