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How to be Authentically Connected to Yourself to Guide Your Career with Lindsay Gordon · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Hi, everyone.
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This is Roxanne Derhodge.
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Thanks for tuning in again to authenticate living with Roxanne.
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Today, I have a special guest, Lindsey Gordon with us.
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Lindsey is a career coach and I think a career coach in the right time, not that career
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coaching, has not been an important thing for most of us to have in our in our careers.
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But she works specifically with analytically, minded people, to kind of help them, I would
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say, meander their way through making some choices.
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She is the owner, of a coaching company called a Life of Options LLC.
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So, Lindsey, thanks so much for coming on today.
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Thank you.
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I'm so happy to be here.
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So let's talk a little bit.
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I would say that most people in this time, and I know throughout my career, I always had
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guidance from someone that helped me make those decisions in reference to my career.
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How do you find most people make that decision initially to kind of source out someone like
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yourself with their expertise with your expertise.
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I think they've probably been in a spot of wondering for a while, and maybe it's asking
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themselves the same questions over and over and over again of Is this really what I wanna be
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doing?
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Do I want to do this other thing that I've thought about?
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You know, do I need to quit?
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All of these kind of questions And for some people, they've been asking themselves this for
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1 year, for 5 years, some people for 10 years.
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And I think you get to a spot where you are not really showing up as the person you know
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yourself to be at work.
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Mhmm.
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Sometimes your partner or your friends are like, hey.
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You've been, you know, asking for support for a long time.
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It might be time to take some action.
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So I think in some ways people get to the spot where they're like, I don't think I can figure
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this out by myself.
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I think I need some kind of support, and I think that's a a great place to land because so
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often we feel like I have to figure it out myself.
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For myself, I know I've used, I've had outplacement coaching when I've been you know,
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kind of given a severance package, those types of things.
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So let's say the average person doesn't know what a career coach does, So tell tell me some
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of the basics because I I think I know, but I mean, I may be off base there.
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So what what is it that a career coach actually does when someone comes to them.
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Yep.
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So I like to share kind of a little framework of 3 types of career coaches so that people can
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understand which type might I be looking for?
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So I think about kind of 3 buckets.
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The first one is exploration.
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And this is if you're asking questions like, what is it that I wanna do?
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You know, I kinda fell into this career after school.
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I don't feel like I intentionally chose this.
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What am I really looking for?
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So that career coach can help you kind of go internally.
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Ask what you're looking for, what's important to you, and how you might connect that to your
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job.
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Mhmm.
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The second bucket is you can also work with somebody for job search tactics.
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So if you're looking for support with resume, cover letter, interviewing, negotiating, all of
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that, there are a collection of career coaches that can work on that.
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And then there's also kind of the 3rd bucket, which we generally call leadership or executive
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coaching.
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Which can help you grow in a role that you like, but you want to increase your leadership
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in that role.
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So those are kind of the three areas.
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And, really, I think they're always, you know, somebody who can help you understand more about
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what's right for you.
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And to get where you wanna be going in your career is probably the simplest way to think
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about it.
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So, you know, I remember, when I went to university and He sent you the career guidance,
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office.
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That was not very helpful.
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I don't know about your university, but I remember thinking Well, I think I wanna, you
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know, my thing is I'm a psychotherapist.
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That's my formal training.
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And I thought, well, maybe they'll be able to guide me.
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And I went there, and I'm like, I think they know less than I'm kinda lost.
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I'm an undergrad 1st year, and I'm trying to kind and really there it wasn't very helpful.
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I'm I'm I'm wondering, like, if most people have had that experience, I probably really
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don't know those 3 areas that you're talking about because myself, you know, eighteen years
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old, 1st year university, I'm trying to kinda, like, you know, get my way about am I making
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the right choice?
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And and they they weren't very they would be like, okay.
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Check those journals over there.
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And I'm like, okay.
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Well, I think I could have probably figured myself.
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You know, I probably could have figured that out myself.
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But, obviously, what you're talking about is there there's a, like, an entire kind of space
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that you can go into, whether you're trying to figure it out, like, I mean, I'm sure a lot of
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people in university kind of coming out.
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They have a sense of what they like, or like you said, someone that's kinda trying to figure
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out, am I taking the right steps in my career, right, and I've been there.
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Or if I am in a a, you know, say, a management position or leadership position.
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I'm trying to kind of decide where I want to go, and I could kinda but I don't know what to
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do.
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I I think I have these aspirations, but how do I do it so I don't overstep, and how do I do it
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in a way that I can use my sponsors to help me or mentors those types of things.
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So there's lots of different ways that, I would say this field that you're in has, I would say
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blossomed since I've been in university was just quite a long time ago.
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And I I think one thing that is usually less helpful about kind of that experience that you
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shared about the career counselor is that's a lot of external, like, okay.
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Based on the experience that you have, you know, maybe you should do this thing.
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And I think I think one thing that's really hard is that we get so much noise externally as
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to what we should do.
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Right?
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So there's a lot of what we should do based on our skills, what we should do based on what
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society thinks that, you know, our job should mean to us.
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And so I think actually the most difficult thing for the clients that I work with is
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listening to what they actually want instead of getting all of those external suggestions and
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opinions because especially, you know, with our friends and family, peers, a lot of people are
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trying to help us get to where we wanna be.
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But they don't always know what's right.
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And so if if somebody can figure out what is actually important to them, That is the thing
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that unlocks so much about where you wanna go in your career, rather having that, all of that
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kind of external opinions.
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So, really, it's, I mean, as you know, I I work a lot with, authentic leadership, and I you
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know, in the with with, leaders, it's about finding that grounding within themselves to
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really come from a place that what I'm living as an alignment with my actions.
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So really it's about kind of going in there, but I think, you know, I I call it like know,
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white noise.
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I'm gonna call it shrapnel of this time that we're in.
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There's so much coming at us, right, like, you know, with with the pandemic and with you know,
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a lot of people having shifted, what the concept of home and work is.
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There's so many moving parts And I would think that in this time that you're pro what what
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would you say the average person is coming to you with now in mind?
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With all those things.
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I mean, what are what are most people?
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And maybe that's a difficult question.
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But
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No.
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I think there's this feeling of Is this what I wanna be doing with my life?
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Mhmm.
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I think it's a pretty big question of you know, time is short.
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We get 1 precious life.
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Is this what I wanna be doing?
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Is this the highest use of my potential in a way that actually feels authentic to me.
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And so I think it just I think mostly the pandemic, you know, has had us think about.
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Hold on.
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Oh my gosh.
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I kinda woke up for a moment.
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And what do I really wanna be doing?
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Is work the most important thing to me is something outside of work the most important
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thing to me and how does work fit into that?
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So I think it really is this, like, is this truly what I wanna be doing with my life?
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Is this the most fulfilling and authentic way that I can be having my career, and I think
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that's a a really common theme that I'm hearing.
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And, you know, we've been hearing about this you know, this new resignation.
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And at first, I was like, well, I don't know.
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But then it, you know, you kept hearing a lot of, companies talking about it and, because I
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think, you know, out of the one thing that's positive that's come out of the pandemic is
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that because then we were like, okay, you're going home.
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You're you're working from home.
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Now your children are home.
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And, you know, we're all kind of under this the same space.
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I think a lot of leaders and people started to recognize that, wow.
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Like, maybe my time is being, you know, misaligned with what really I want because I
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can think of myself when I was a young executive.
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You know, I had a baby and I was traveling a lot and, you know, I was doing it, but it was,
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like, kinda like my, you know, keeping the water under my nose kind of thing.
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Some days, I was, like, drowning definitely other days I was barely kind of keeping it up.
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And what I started to realize was that after a while, I I had to come to that point where I
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had to have a value kind of deep value conversation with myself and my, husband of
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that time of what I can probably keep doing this, but it's not going to be good for a
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family.
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And then at which point, I was thinking about quitting, but was able to, and this was going
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back quite a while in 2004, I was able to go virtual as an executive, which was kind of
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unheard of, at that time.
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And, you know, there's a a fair lot of trepidation in myself because I wanted I loved
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what I did.
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I loved being a new mom, but I didn't like all the other trappings that came with it, the
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travel and the long hours and all those things.
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And luckily for me in that time, there was that opening which was something that was not the
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most positive, but I kind of leveraged it to be able to, to go on and become virtual in my
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career back, like I said, quite a long time ago.
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But I think the pandemic has created that space because a lot of people that I'm hearing are
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kind of going back to employers or, looking around in their sectors for things that are
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more in alignment with what's valuable for them.
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Yeah.
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I have such a similar story right now where I have a client who during the pandemic, he was
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given some accommodations of getting to work from home a couple of days a week, and he has a
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couple of young kids.
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And he's just been told that, towards the end of the year, he's gonna need to come back into
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the office 5 days a week.
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And it really just isn't the best for him and his family.
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And, you know, we start to add on things like commute, things like travel, and all of a
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sudden you're like, hold on a moment.
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Like, I don't think I can go back to where I was pre pandemic.
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So I think that is a question that a lot of people are asking and especially with young
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families of where do I wanna be spending my time and how much do I wanna be spending time
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on work?
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So, yeah, I think that's really common.
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And I think the life cycle, right, like you're you know, the 1st couple of years, it it's it's
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tough.
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And, but once you kind of, you know, you're trying to get into school and stuff like that,
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makes it a little bit easier, but it's that first 3, you know, 1 to 5 years with couples
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juggling and, you know, you know, with 2 or 3 children and you know, and then activities and
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all that stuff.
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And if both partners are traveling along with everything else, it's a little bit dizzy if you
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kind of stop to think about it.
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And I think That's what the positive has been with, people with the pandemic.
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So with with, Let's talk about so the 3rd option that you talk for career, coaching was a
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lot of leaders kind of coming to you and I'm thinking about, okay, well, I'm in a lead
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leadership position, but I want growth.
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Or I want not even if I want growth.
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I maybe wanna look at where I'm at.
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Maybe I have 15 years into a career, you know, you're you're kind of start to think, okay, is
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this all there is?
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So what kind of work would you do with someone like that to kind of help them decide what what
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kind of route they're gonna take.
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Yeah.
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It's a good timely question because I have a lot of clients right now who are think between
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about 10 23 years in the same company.
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So they're often like, okay.
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Do I stick around?
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You know, are there more lives here for me at this company.
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And the three things that I help people focus on, number 1 is clarity.
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Number 2 is confidence.
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And number 3 is communication.
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So what I would do with somebody who's looking to continue to expand in their role and see
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what there might be available We always wanna start with clarity of what is important to you,
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what are those values, what are you great at, What are the strengths?
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What activities give you energy?
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What activities drain your energy?
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And how can we start to really align what it is that you do with those different pieces so that
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you have a really clear picture of Oh, this is why this piece of the work feels really good to
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me.
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What if I could do more of it?
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The second piece is that confidence of being incredibly confident about your unique value
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and also about your strengths.
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How are you talking about those strengths with your leadership team?
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How are you talking about those strengths with your manager and being incredibly clear so that
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for that third piece communication, you can be having con conversations of I know that I
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thrive when I am in this environment, when I'm doing this type of work, I would love to be
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doing more of that.
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And so you know, one example is a client who discovered that she absolutely loves presenting
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in front of stakeholders.
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And that aligns with her values, that aligns with her strengths.
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It's really energy giving for her.
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And so she had a conversation her manager to say like, oh, I identified that this is
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something that really fires me up.
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And then her manager started finding opportunities for her to do that.
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And so the more that we are clear, the more we can communicate that with other people and we
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start to be really proactive about getting those opportunities that are gonna align really
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well with what's important to us.
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So is are when you're doing your meetings with them?
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Is it conversational where you're drawing that from them?
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Do you actually use any kind of, tools to you know, it's one thing for me to say one thing.
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And, you know, not that anyone's ever telling lies about ourselves, sometimes we do.
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And then, you know, and then you kind of look at the actual quantifiable metrics about, oh,
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you said you like this, but then I see that These are the 10 activities that you say you
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spend most of your time with.
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So that in congruence sometimes can come into a space that you're like, oh, help me understand
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this.
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Do you use a little bit of actual metrics that's quantifiable along with experiential
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experiential kind of, data collection from the clients.
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Yeah.
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So the the reason I talk about being a an analytical, a career coach for analytically
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minded people is because I actually have an engineering degree which is very unusual in
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this space.
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So I love frameworks.
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You know, we we've got a lot of spreadsheets going on.
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So not only are we doing a lot of exercises that either I've created or curated from a lot
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of great career coaching books, but also we do, one of my favorites is strengths finder.
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Mhmm.
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And I I think it can just be so helpful to help people articulate.
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These are the things that people get to me, and this is why because they actually align with
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strengths.
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So I think that helps.
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Yes.
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We take the anecdotal and then we also take the strengths finder and, you know, see how they
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match up.
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Give you a slightly different mindset shift about some of those strengths or what those
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activities are.
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So, yes, I love the love the the strengths finder assessment along with
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So let me ask you a question.
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How does an engineer and, incur coaching?
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That's a story in in of itself.
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That really is.
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I like any good career transition.
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I have fallen into all of mine.
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Started in engineering then fell into technical support, actually.
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And I found that that was I loved technical support.
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I love customer service.
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I feel like it's a little bit of engineering, that problem solving, but also with people And
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that has been the theme throughout my whole career.
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So while I was doing technical support, I took on an additional part of my job to do
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onboarding and training for our team.
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And so many of the people joining our team were like, oh, I don't know what I wanna be doing
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with my career.
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I don't know where I wanna be going.
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What if I get stuck here?
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You know, how do I talk to my manager?
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So I just ended up talking to people kind of on the side of this job.
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Which is such a which is such an an amazing story because truly you are living what you do.
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Right?
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Because surely, like, I because to your point, right, most of us, we grow up I grew up in a
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business family and, then I thought I wanted to help people and which I which I still do in my
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speaking and training, but it I ended up, you know, going through for psychology, then doing
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a lot of that, then I ended up being, you know, really attracted to business probably because
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of affinity.
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But it didn't go into, you know, kind of, corporate you know, sales, which is kind of
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what I was exposed to with my family, but that ended up doing the speaking training and
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consulting and coaching, in businesses.
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So it's funny because you're you're so right.
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It's almost like there's a guidepost.
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You have a lot of, you know, extraneous variables that, you know, at eighteen years
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old, you're you know, you may be picking an undergraduate degree.
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And then kind of, you know, at mid stage, you're thinking how did I end up from whatever
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engineering you were in to career coaching?
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So it's almost like you're guiding yourself based on, like, exposure.
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Oh, don't like this.
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Don't like that.
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Oh, I like this.
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Oh, I'm I wanna investigate this.
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And then you kind of go from there to there to there to get to point where you're doing what
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you're doing and I'm doing what I'm doing.
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So it's quite fascinating what I'm sure when you guide, younger people, that are starting
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off because some of what I often say, I have a twenty year old who's mid university, and I and
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and he'll say, well, you know, you have to intuitively go with what you love, but it's
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kinda hard because that does shift as you, you know, kind of age developmentally.
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Absolutely.
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And I think what I like to tell people is we're not going for having it all figured out.
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I think there's this narrative that, like, some point, we're going to arrive to a place where
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we feel like we know exactly what we're doing.
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And I don't think that ever happens.
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And I don't actually want that for people.
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I want there to be a lifelong curiosity, playfulness, serendipity, discovering different
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things.
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And if you can kinda make the decisions that actually feel authentic and aligned for you at
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each of those moments, that to me feels like a life well lived rather than I have chosen this
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one thing.
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I will do this one thing.
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I have it figured out.
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Absolutely.
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It's It's almost like an evolution, and kind of like you said, you know, I I picked this.
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Like, my first particular job out of grad school was, I was a first responder, for
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victims of crime.
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Right?
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So and, I mean, loved it in that my personality was wired for it to be able to do it.
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And guess what I learned the ability, you know, of skill that I learned, which I still use now
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and lots of different, is I can assess and connect quickly.
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So it's a skill.
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And of course, your, you know, your instant repeating, because, unfortunately, in your
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capacity, my job was you didn't have time.
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You had to be able to assess and connect really quickly to deliver.
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So again, that skill development, like, to your point, of whatever you're doing, you're you're
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crafting and you're you're taking some, skills that you're gonna you know, you those
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transferable skills which you hear about is it's so true.
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And now that I look back at my career, which is, you know, close to the end that the
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beginning, you recognize it's like, that younger version yourself just kinda enjoy the
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experience.
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Yep.
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And I love your mention of that because so often when people are at a company for a long
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time and are thinking about making a move, they have this feeling of I need to start over.
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I need to take an entry level position.
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And I I love how you're thinking about it of, yeah, even those skills from that first job,
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absolutely, they're coming with you.
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And there's a a great phrase.
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I think from the book, so good they can't ignore you.
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He calls it career capital of every career is going to give you experiences, skills,
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connections, and absolutely, you're gonna bring that with you.
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So it's not that you are completely starting over.
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It's not that you're completely abandoning what you're doing, but you're adding to all these
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skills and just using it in the next way.
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So, yes, I did engineering.
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I am no longer an engineer, you know, in the work that I do, but I absolutely bring my
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engineering mindset and experiences and kind of ways of approaching problems.
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So I think that's a great way to think about it.
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Yeah.
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And I think for you know, people.
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Now let's talk a little bit.
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We talked to, you know, that in this time, a lot of people are thinking about do I need to
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quit?
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I think I would love to hear your take on this and how someone should really think about.
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So we know, unfortunately, with their economies, how many people have, you know, gone
23:46
through tough times.
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So a lot of people are sometimes sticking because they want to know that they, you know,
23:51
to be able to take care of their their families and those types of things.
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So a lot of but now that I think we're probably seeing more people going back into actual
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physical environments and economies coming back a bit, but there's still a lot of people are
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thinking, do I quit?
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So how do you Give me your take on that in in this time.
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Yeah.
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I think it's you always need to know your own situation right, I will never tell you yes or
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no is right for you.
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I think there is a situation where if the environment really isn't a good fit for you, if
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you are really struggling to show up at work, you know, quitting might be the right choice
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for you, but I think there's so much that we can do before quitting.
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And often, It's the first thing that we think of.
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Like, I'm really struggling.
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I feel stuck.
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Maybe I need to quit.
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Kind of those those two thoughts just happen really fast after another.
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So I think what I would invite people to do is to think about how can I get really clear about
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what is working and not working here so that I can make an intentional choice because if you
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quit without knowing that and you move to an position, the same exact things could be
25:07
happening in that environment, and you wouldn't know about it?
25:11
And you would just feel like, you know, you're bad at picking jobs.
25:14
So I think if we can go back to that clarity of what is working for you, What is not working
25:21
for you?
25:21
Are you doing more energy draining activities?
25:25
Are you not getting the opportunity to use any of your top strengths in your role.
25:30
And the more clear you can be about that, then you can start running little experiments of,
25:35
okay, if I was to, you know, say that growth is one of my biggest values.
25:42
If I am am getting a pretty low amount in my role right now, and that's one of the things
25:47
that feels really out of alignment.
25:49
How can we start to run some experiments of What are the smallest actions I could take in
25:55
the direction of growth that would have a meaningful difference to me?
25:59
So does that mean taking advantage of learning reimbursements in your company.
26:05
Does that look like having a great conversation with your manager about your strengths and how
26:11
you feel they're being used in that role.
26:14
So I think getting clear, running experiments, seeing what opportunities they are.
26:20
Because I think when a lot of people are waiting for opportunities to come to them in
26:24
the workplace and the more that we can start to be proactive and be intentional and start to
26:30
have conversations about what you're actually looking for in order to feel like it's a fit so
26:35
you don't need to quit there's so much that can change without needing to quit.
26:42
So that's where I would really have people start.
26:44
I think that confidence would be a big thing, especially now with a lot of the uncertainty,
26:49
because if I if I'm diametrically opposed in my position with my strengths, it would be tough,
26:57
right, because, you know, I'm an extrovert and I like connection, and I like variety, and I
27:02
like people that gives me autonomy.
27:05
So if you put me in a in a in a situation where I'm having to, you know, kind of bust out every
27:10
single day of that kind of constricting context.
27:14
I would probably it it would be like root canal daily.
27:17
Right?
27:17
Truly.
27:17
Yep.
27:18
So I think that's a good way to to, you know, I love it.
27:21
Like, think about what is it, you know, if I were to dream of the perfect idea situation for
27:26
me based on everything that's going on in my life.
27:28
Like you said, financially, developmentally with my family, where my I see myself 3, 5 or
27:34
10 years down the road.
27:36
All those things, you know, become and then once I'm clear, then learning that ability to
27:42
to to create those opportunities, to go to my my leader or my manager or whoever I'm working
27:47
with on my team to get those opportunities.
27:50
But sometimes if you're clearer, you can probably achieve the goal right where you are.
27:54
Yep.
27:55
Absolutely.
27:56
Changing environments just to, like you said, you know, I'm gonna pop and pop and pop at
28:00
which point I'm gonna get a bis frustrated because I'm not gonna because I'm not clear
28:04
about ready you know, what are my what are my strengths and what are my limitations, and we
28:09
all have them and to accept them and not try to kinda like, I'm gonna get better at this.
28:14
And sometimes we're just We can try really hard, but it's just not what we like to do kind
28:19
of thing.
28:19
So I like that.
28:20
So, again, that speaks to authenticity.
28:22
You know, when I look at it as a big frame, If I'm not being real with myself, then it makes
28:27
it difficult to kind of go out there and attract what I want, you know, in my work
28:33
environment or in my home life or my friendships or or even in my community, if I
28:38
wanna make a difference, it's ready to be true true to who I am.
28:42
Yeah.
28:43
One of the other ways that I love to have people do that is there are so many kind of
28:48
words that we throw around in career of you know, growth, success, recognition.
28:55
And if I asked a hundred people to define growth, you would probably get a 100 different
29:02
answers.
29:02
And so I I help people look at where they are going after going based on kind of external
29:10
definitions of success.
29:11
And if you can just say for yourself, what does recognition look like?
29:16
Because your your manager, your leadership team might be recognizing you, you know,
29:22
financially.
29:23
And that's actually not what and means to you, it means hearing on a, you know, semi regular
29:29
basis that you're doing a great job.
29:31
And so the more that we know about the definitions of these words that we talk about
29:36
so much, recognition, growth, whatever they are, the more simply you can define it for
29:43
yourself then you can, again, communicate that to others and make sure that that is really
29:49
showing up in work and you're not kind of talking ask each other in, well, I am
29:53
recognizing you.
29:54
No.
29:55
You're not.
29:56
Oh, because it's not in the way that's important to me.
29:58
So that's another really simple way to to get more of that authenticity, but some of those
30:03
words that we talk about a lot.
30:04
Right.
30:05
I just already learned how to communicate, because unfortunately, to your point, if you
30:09
say growth, and everybody's definition is gonna be different.
30:13
And I'm trying to tell you what I need for growth, and we're not clarifying what your
30:17
definition means for the vision and the mission of the company.
30:20
Right.
30:21
And and you're saying, hey.
30:22
You know, I give you that bonus or, you know, I was able to work with you on put you on this
30:27
team or whatever, but it's it's you're still missing the mark.
30:30
So I think it's learning the skills of communication too, I think, would be quite
30:34
instrumental in what you do because if I have clarity, I'm gaining confidence, but I can't
30:40
get out or get it across to the right people that could impact those steps for me, then I'm
30:46
kinda I'm gonna be stymied again.
30:48
Yep.
30:48
Absolutely.
30:49
I'm gonna
30:49
be stuck.
30:50
Right?
30:51
This has been a fascinating call station, I think we could probably chunk out clarity and
30:57
do a a podcast in that confidence.
30:59
We can do a podcast in that.
31:01
And you know, communication because these are so vitally important things in people's
31:05
careers.
31:06
Now I would love for people to know if they wanna have conversations with you, Lindsay, you
31:12
know, where can they connect and, so maybe they can reach out and and, have a bit more of what
31:17
you've shared with today.
31:19
Yeah.
31:19
Absolutely.
31:20
So my website is a life of options.com.
31:25
Feel free to connect there.
31:26
I have a great resource about the analytically minded job search roadmap, if that is useful
31:32
for where you are in your career.
31:33
And also please connect with me on LinkedIn.
31:36
I love connecting with people.
31:38
I share lots of client stories and experiences and ways to think about your career and doing
31:44
what's right for you.
31:45
So would happily connect there.
31:47
Again, my name is Lindsey Gordon.
31:49
So feel free to find me on LinkedIn.
31:51
Awesome.
31:52
Well, when did I learn?
31:54
You know, that's going back to what I talked about with authentic leadership.
31:58
If you are truly, gaining clarity and confidence, and you're able to communicate to
32:05
the people around you in whatever capacity, then you're well on your way.
32:09
So to really be true to yourself.
32:11
And for leaders, think about that.
32:13
Right?
32:13
Like, with your, authentic leadership, are you clear?
32:18
Are you confident and are you able to impart that to your teams so that you can be an
32:24
aligned they can be an alignment based on what you're trying to achieve.
32:27
So if you're needing more information on that, just reach out to me at chat with roxanne.com.
32:33
We can jump on a quick call.
32:35
Even if it's to chit chat about some of the things that Lindsey and I have talked about
32:39
today or if you're needing more, we can figure that out.
32:42
Again, Lindsey, thanks so much for your time.
32:44
And everyone will chat with you soon.
32:47
Take care.
32:48
Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for Paws of healthy
32:54
change.
32:55
Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit roxanne
33:02
Durgesh.com/blueprint.
33:05
We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.